Taking the Lead | All About the Match

We sit down with Guide Dog Mobility Instructor Katie Wattles, who brings over 20 years of experience, to explain the art and science behind matching a client with the right guide dog.

What is Taking the Lead ?

Leader Dogs for the Blind empowers people who are blind or visually impaired with the tools for safe and independent daily travel. Our goal is to educate, advocate, and share real life experiences of those with blindness. Come learn, laugh, and grow with us.

Christina: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Taking the Lead podcast where we empower people to be unstoppable. I'm Christina Hepner with my co-host Leslie Hoskins and Timothy Kun. I can't believe we're at the end of the year already.
Timothy: It's insane, isn't it?
Christina: Yeah. This year has
Leslie: flown 2025. 2025. Yeah. Big year for Christina. Yeah. Huge.
Lots of things happened, right? Yeah. Got
Christina: engaged, then got married. Oh yeah. It was all in the same year. No, it wasn't on the same year. No. I got engaged in 2024. I
Timothy: think it was after Halloween last year.
Christina: Yes, it was right after Halloween. It was the That weekend after Halloween. Oh my goodness. Yeah. Okay. So lots of wedding planning in a year, but it was less than a year of an engagement to the wedding.
Yeah. Wow. Lots of fun. Well, I was a year full of wedding planning. Absolutely. So fun. So fun. So fun. Timothy, what'd you do
Leslie: this year?
Timothy: Traveled a lot.
Leslie: Yeah,
Timothy: A lot. That's basically what I did. And a lot of lion stuff, uh, locally here in my lions [00:01:00] club and in, in the state of Georgia too.
Christina: Very
Leslie: nice. I know you are doing a lot of traveling.
Yes, you are. Have been all over the place, which is great. So thank you for that big year.
Timothy: Yeah, I love doing it and enjoy doing it and feel like I'm making a difference somewhere. So,
Leslie: yeah. And Leslie, what did you do? What did I do? Yeah, what did you do, Leslie? I know the whole time you guys were talking, I was thinking, what will I say to answer that question?
I don't know what I did this year, but I, I did it, I did a lot of things. Um, kids got older. Started lots of activities. So that's been busy in my personal life. You're a cheer coach. I have been. That's a new thing. I have been coaching cheerleading. That has been a new thing that has really taken up a lot of my time.
Um, but I love it. It's really fun to watch my daughter do something that she's great at and then she cheers for my son. So it's the perfect little cuteness overload. Oh yeah. Love that. So it's been fun and then work's been really busy. Gaining a lot of traction with other organizations and agencies and letting 'em know about what we do and partnering [00:02:00] together.
So I'm sure 2026 is gonna bring nothing
Christina: but more positive things. Yeah, and you know what? At the end of the year, we're gonna be taking just a little bit of a break and we'll come back at the end of January of 2026. So just taking some time off so we can enjoy with our family and friends and come back strong with some really fun episodes.
So.
Leslie: Yes, 2026. Here we come. We'll see y'all at the end of January. Yes. All right. Well, today we've got a fantastic guest with us here today that we've been wanting to get on the podcast for quite some
Christina: time. Yes. We're excited to welcome Katie Waddles. Katie is a guide dog mobility instructor at Leader Dog with over 20 years of.
Experience. Katie's here to share about the unique process of matching a client with a guide dog to fit their individual needs.
Timothy: Katie, welcome to the podcast. We're excited that you're here. Can you tell us how you got involved with Leader Dog and training dogs?
Katie: Uh, yes. I [00:03:00] actually got started as a puppy raiser.
My mom was introduced to it by her dad, who was a Lions Club member. She wasn't able to when she was a kid, but when she got older she wanted to raise a puppy, so we started raising them as a family. That is awesome. So how many puppies have you raised? I don't know the number that our family has raised. I know that it is.
A
Leslie: lot. A lot.
Katie: Seems
Leslie: like, yeah, a lot. Yeah. How old were you? Like when you remember first starting to puppy raise? Like were you little?
Katie: Yes. Uh, we started when I was six. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. And I raised my first one when I was nine.
Christina: Oh my goodness. So it was like your. Y your project? Yes. Yes. That is cool.
Yeah. So you've
Leslie: always loved dogs?
Christina: Oh yeah.
Leslie: Okay. Yeah. So then at what point did you decide I would like to do this for a living?
Katie: Yeah. At nine. I was gonna say, coming here it was always like, people get paid to do that. Yeah. No way. Um, but yes, it, [00:04:00] uh, it evolved after I had a year of college and didn't know what I wanted to do.
Um, there was an opening and. Moved over to this side of the state. That's fantastic.
Leslie: Yeah. And 20 years later, here you are. Here I am not necessarily raising puppies, but still kind of a part of the raising process in a much more formal way, if you will. Yes. That's incredible. I had no idea that's how you started.
Yeah. So we are here though to talk about specifically kind of the matching process, right? There is so much that goes into your career specifically as being a guide dog mobility instructor. You have to train the dogs and those four months of formal training where you're getting to know the dog and taking 'em to all sorts of different environments and things like that.
But then there comes this time where you've got hopefully a fully trained guide dog and you have to then issue them, if you will, to their new person, their new, their handler, what they've meant to do. Yeah. So can you give us a little bit of, kind of a condensed version of what that matching process looks like?[00:05:00]
Katie: Yeah. So, uh, the matching process usually starts, um, after the midpoint of our training cycle. So halfway through, so about two months in we have an idea of the dogs, um, and then we. Start sitting down, uh, with the team and having chances to read through applications and look at videos and start lightly matching our dogs with clients.
Um, we, when we're that far away from class, we aren't matching. We're matching clients that are more broad matches that more of our dogs. Are potentially suited for, because a lot can happen in two months. We can have dogs that Yeah. Do not make it medical or work-wise or whatever. So, um, we try to, we try to start the matching process after mid cycle, but it really amps up in the third month of training in the fourth month of training.
So.
Christina: That is so interesting that you guys start that early. [00:06:00] So after two months you start to look at videos Yes. Essentially of how people walk and that sort of thing. So what are some things, 'cause I would never know how to do that. I would never know how to match a dog with a person. I would be like, that's, I don't know.
I think they're both. Energetic. There we go. Like, what are some things that you guys look for with like the person, how they walk or that sort of thing to look at your dog and then look at the person?
Katie: Yeah. So when, uh, whenever I'm working a dog, I'm always thinking about what kind of match I would expect for that dog.
So is it a dog that needs to be in a smaller town, a little bit quieter setting? Um, is it a dog that needs a more active lifestyle? Um. We are, we're looking at pace of the dog, but for me that's pretty far down the list. I want more of a lifestyle match and um, you know, is this a person who gets out every day and walks a lot, [00:07:00] or is it someone who has a more sedentary lifestyle?
You know, just seeing if there lifestyles match.
Christina: Yeah.
Katie: Um, and then from there we can start to narrow down. The size of the dog, if that's compatible with what they're expecting and their expectations of what a dog's going to provide for them.
Timothy: So, Katie, during the interview, like when I've got Glacier, I had to answer a bunch of questions and tell what, what, what do you get outta that, those questions that are asked to the client during that video?
Does that kind of help determine what the kind of dog they're gonna get?
Katie: Yeah. So when we are, um, when we have a client. Uh, fill out their application. Uh, they fill out an application with lots of information, and then we also get a video from them. And in that video, one of the things that we're asking for is an interview.
And in the interview we ask a few, I think there's eight questions or so. Um, so things about like, what is a dog going to do to enhance your travels? So that's giving us an idea of what expectations the [00:08:00] client is going to have. Um, again. And the expectation level is what kind of, do they have expectations about the breed of the dog or the gender of the dog?
Um, because that narrows our pool of dogs that are available for them. Mm-hmm. Um, we ask the client to, uh, describe their walking routes, what kind of things they do, what their activities are, um, again, to get an idea of what their lifestyle is. Um, we want to find out. Oh, if they've had a previous dog. We ask them about, um, things that they appreciated about their previous dog as well as things that they found less than desirable.
I like those words. Yes, because it, again, that gives us a good idea of, is this what, what kind of expectation this client is going to have. For their next dog. Yeah.
Leslie: Do you think it's harder to match like a second or third dog, like a successor dog than a first dog or harder to match the first,
Katie: um, [00:09:00] you know, not necessarily.
It kind of depends on the client and you hear sometimes about like second dog syndrome and I, I'm not one who relies heavily on that. That second dog is going to be really hard to replace. Um, it's, it depends on each individual person. And there's some people that. Their first dog gave them a lot of, uh, opportunity to learn how to work with the dog, and they have better skills now.
Um, they also, you know, they also come with their own habits and things like that, so there's pros and cons. Um, but it's, it's, uh, it just depends, I would say more so on the client as to what their. Experiences have been as to whether or not it's more difficult.
Christina: Well, and I can imagine that sometimes in that timeframe, people's lifestyles can totally change.
Katie: Yes, absolutely. So a lot of times people have gotten a dog and are sometimes we forget that we've [00:10:00] gotten 10 years older. Yeah, right. Time goes by fast. Yes. So we'll have clients that are requesting, I need another dog that's really strong and firm and harness and these kind of traits, and it's. When we see the videos and go, that's what they had, that's what they're used to, but they've aged with their dog and that's not necessarily what they actually need anymore.
So reading between the lines sometimes,
Leslie: and there's so much you really have to get just from those videos. I know sometimes we do, uh, a client visit and we're able to go meet the client and really see their environment and those types of things, but we rely on those videos for so much information, the pace they walk, the environment they travel in, if there's any abnormal gait patterns or things like that.
How do you then start, so like let's say you've got a client who maybe has an abnormal gait, like walking a little different. How are you then evaluating your dogs to see like if they can handle that or if they'd be successful?
Katie: Yeah, so again, we're collecting information the whole time we're working the dog and we're exposing them to lots of different things.
[00:11:00] So if I have an idea that this specific dog might work for a specific client that has a different gate, um, we are going to. Mimic the gate so we can expose the dog to it. Um, and we're going to see if that's something the dog's able to hold up to. Um, sometimes we have clients that have. A very strong tendency.
They push a lot to the left. Mm-hmm. Or they pull a lot to the right. And again, exposing the dog through training to those things and seeing if, oh, this is a dog that handles that well, or this is a dog that that's really hard for them. And either we can try to build that skill or we might say, this is not suitable for this specific person because they have this tendency.
Yeah, it's just not that good of a match.
Timothy: I know even a client that, that could not have a dog on the left side. So y'all trained a dog that could work on the right side?
Katie: Yes, yes. We definitely, um, have had those encounters where we need to, for whatever reason, we've had clients that [00:12:00] had, um, you know, a limb loss, that they're not able to have a dog on the left hand side because they are missing that arm.
Um, we've had clients who've had strokes or things like that where they have limited use of. The left arm. So it makes sense for us to switch dogs over to the right. And with that, we need to have, uh, I would say a little bit more lead time because we need to have, just because the dog works well on the left, a lot of times when you switch them over doesn't necessarily translate.
Sometimes they lose a little bit of their drive or they lose. Their interest in the work because it's all a little confusing to 'em. So,
Christina: yeah. And starting two months out, so you may identify a client, but that might change. So how does that work when you're like, okay, this dog actually won't work for this client.
Yes. And then when do you identify like a new client that it would work for?
Katie: Yeah, so the thing with matching is that very rarely do we have this one specific dog is the only possible match for this one client. [00:13:00] Um. Earlier on, and when we start matching earlier on, if we invite a client that is, uh, closer to the mid cycle, um.
We will invite them because we have a pool of dogs, we have multiple dogs that would work for them. And then as we get closer to class and we are matching, that pool sometimes is pulled to other people and we say, well, that pool, we need this dog on this person. So that pool is no longer five dogs. Now we only have three dogs on that person.
Uh, but we still usually have some wiggle room there until we get closer and closer and closer to class. Now that we, uh. We tend to have it more locked in, but we still have, we still have wiggle room. We still have. Dogs that are not necessarily interchangeable. It's not like they're the same dog not working with widgets.
We can't just swap them here and there. But, uh, there's dogs that have similar traits that we go, okay, well these, this pool of dogs could go for this pool [00:14:00] of clients. And so we have some wiggle room and sometimes those matches aren't made until we are in class. They're not solidified. Oh, wow. And that really.
Leslie: It goes back to your point of like when people have a specific breed or gender that they want in the dog, that pool gets smaller and smaller, right? So like if you have five dogs or three dogs that you're thinking about, but only one of 'em meets their, the client's preferences, that definitely makes it a little bit more challenging.
Absolutely,
Katie: yes. The more, um, the more restrictions that are put on us, the harder it is for us to be able to. Match you with the dog that you need and, and also the dog that you want. So if we have a pool of eight dogs. You have, I only will accept a black lab. Okay, that might knock out four of 'em. So if you also have the requirement of it needs to be this tall, that knocks out more of them and it, we might have one dog that matches what you want, but it doesn't [00:15:00] necessarily match what you need.
It might not match your pace. It might not like match your lifestyle. So it limits us and our abilities.
Christina: Have you ever had to like, change a dog during class? Like, this dog isn't working, let's try this
Katie: dog. Yes, we have. Um, I, when we make the match, the aim is for the dog to be the right dog. Um, there are times that we make the match, and I've had it where the dog that I match.
Get him into class and the dog is not showing what I saw for four months. Um, we usually try to give it some time 'cause it's a big adjustment. It's a big adjustment for the dogs. Um, so we try to give it time, but there's a point with which we aren't seeing what we need to see. Um, and that. We, the most important thing I would say is open communication with the client is discussing that, Hey, like I'm seeing these things.
This isn't what I saw during training. [00:16:00] Um, and. We're going to give it this timeframe to try to shake out and work out and be fine. Um, but I'm worried about these things. And in those cases, yes, sometimes we will have another dog that is a suitable match for the client and we are able to switch. To a different dog, but there's other times that we don't have a suitable dog and the client needs to leave here without a dog, which both of 'em are unfortunate.
Both of 'em are very hard situations. Um, emotionally for client, emotionally for instructor, like it's, it's hard on all parties involved. Um, and it's not what we're working for, but. We need to make sure that they have the right dog
Timothy: as a client, I can tell you it's pretty stressful during those first two weeks 'cause you just don't know if this dog's gonna work out or not.
I seen it when I was in there for a glacier that maybe a dog didn't make it. So, um, kudos the leader dog to see that and say, let's fix it here while, while the client's here and don't let them go home and get worse.
Katie: Yeah. Yeah. It [00:17:00] definitely happens and it's, uh, it's often unavoidable.
Christina: Yeah. And the last thing you wanna do is send someone home with a dog that's not the right fit and then have something happen in their home environment.
Yes. Yeah.
Leslie: So I've heard G Dmmi say before that the matching process is a lot of science and then a lot of, or a little bit of just like gut instinct and magic. Right. Because there is only so much. That you can try to guess or, you know, and like you said, you see a dog doing so many great things for four months and then all of a sudden they're doing different things.
Like they have a brain of their own. Do you feel that way? Like some of it is just kind of this gut instinct at 20 years? Like you can see some things like, uh, nope. I'm just, I'm leaning towards this way.
Katie: Yes, it, uh, it definitely is. And that's, uh, it's kind of hard to teach it because a lot of it is just a feeling.
But it's interesting when you have. Multiple people on the team that are familiar with these dogs that have the same feeling, that it's like, eh, I, I just don't love that one as much. You know? [00:18:00] And it's oftentimes it's, uh, the dog, multiple dogs could be very suitable for this person, but we just, for some reason, and sometimes you can't really put your finger on, and it's not like, oh, well this dog does really well in sidewalk less environments, and they have that.
So I like that match more. Sometimes it's kind of this little intangible that it's like. I don't know. I just like that one. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, and it's, it's. I mean, yes. A lot of times it's like, oh, it's just kind of this gut feeling, which makes it difficult to teach.
Leslie: Yeah, I've heard that too, of like A-G-D-M-I like, okay, I've got this dog in mind for this client.
It's gonna be perfect, yada, yada. And then they get here, the client gets here and you shake their hand and you're like, Nope, it's definitely not Josie, it's John. And like you just
Katie: immediately kind of know. Yeah, yeah. There's some, there's some that definitely, it's like, Ooh, I don't know. I'm not feeling that anymore.
Yeah. But a lot of times before class, it's pretty, it's pretty solid. Yeah. Um, but yes, there are times that clients arrive and we kind of look back [00:19:00] at their videos and we go, where's this person coming from? Like, this is not matching with the vibe that we got from their videos or the feeling, um, of their life or things like that.
Yeah. It's not matching, it's not meshing with what we thought we saw. Yeah. And now here's this human in front of us and.
Christina: We need that. That's what we need
Katie: to match for. See,
Christina: I feel like every GDMI, their second career could be a professional matchmaker. Like just hearing all of this, I'm like, especially like someone comes into the class and they're like, Nope, that's not the person for you.
Like,
Leslie: well, you think about it right when you talk. About our wait list being anywhere from six months to a year, that is a lot of time for people to change. Yeah. So you get a video from somebody and applications are good for up to two years. Yeah. Whoever walks in might be different and, you know, in so many different ways.
So that's, that's funny to think about. I also, I mean GDI just have such a unique. Career. Like it's like no day is the same, right? It's very individualized and whatnot. But another thing I do wanna go back to and talk about, because I always find this interesting [00:20:00] when we were talking about, okay, if a client has an abnormal gait pattern, like you guys start to mimic it, you guys are also part actors.
Oh yeah. You know what I mean? Like you're, you're matchmakers. Yeah. So you've got this like gut instinct, but you're also actors out there pretending and like taking on these different roles to impersonate clients.
Katie: Some of us are better than others. Oh my gosh.
Leslie: I mean, what a skillset set is lie all these other second careers
Christina: for them.
Leslie: I know it's a three year apprenticeship. I mean, there really is a lot to learn. You have to learn another living, breathing thing and then figure out how to match them and work with another living, breathing thing and combine and make those two work seamlessly. Yeah.
Katie: Yeah. It's, it's a skill. It's, uh, always learning.
I mean, I've been doing the job this long and it's. I'm always like, oh yeah, that's something new. Yeah, that's didn't expect, that, didn't see that one coming.
Christina: Well, and you have to also be a dog person and a people person. Yes. Because it is
Katie: 50 50. Yeah. A lot of, uh, a lot of people come to the job [00:21:00] with a background in one or the other, and.
They, a lot of pe a lot of us shine in one area and not the other. Um, and then we have to learn yeah. How to shine in the other, uh, because yes, it's, it tends to be a very niche job.
Timothy: Yeah. So Katie, can you tell us what the importance of the Juno Walk is for the, the client that first one or two days when they come to Leader Dog?
Katie: Yeah. So with Juno is, it's when we are, it's twofold. We are teaching the client, um, the, the commands that they need to use with their dog. Um, the ways that they need to interact with their dog in order to make their dog. Uh, start to work for them. Um, so it's teaching them, uh, but it's also giving us information about what we are seeing with the, um, with the client.
So if we are seeing, uh. The pace that we anticipated. If we are seeing, you know, in talking with them, it's also building a rapport with the client. Um, talking [00:22:00] with them what their lifestyle is like and what their expectations are, and just getting a lot of that information that we previously got, but.
One-on-one learning from them. Um, so yes, it is, it's twofold teaching the client what they need to do, as well as gathering information from them. And it's, it is a very important part of what we do is finding out exactly from the client what their expectations are.
Leslie: How would you say, so once a client is matched with their, their guide dog, hopefully, how do you know it's successful?
Like what are the things you're looking for that're like, you know what, we got that one right.
Katie: Um, I think there's different markers throughout class. So in the beginning we're hooked up to them and the dog is being supported, the client is being supported. Um, we start to. As we're progressing, we start to see is the dog stepping up and starting to do the things?
Um, or is there some [00:23:00] hesitation that we didn't anticipate? Um, it, I would say it kind of depends on where we are in class as to whether or not I would say until they are. Probably the end of the second week. A lot of times it's like, yeah, it's rough. It's hard. Yeah. Yeah. It's not an easy process. Um, there's some that clients come down the very first thing with their new dog, and there are, they're like, there's the best dog.
The greatest dog. And that is lovely. Yeah. It's part of the battle is that. The client enjoys their dog and likes their dog because there's gonna be rough times and it's nice when they are starting out liking their dog. Um, there's other times that you give a dog and you know, you come down for the first walk and there's a lot of complaining about the dog, and it's like, okay, well.
We need to see if you can also appreciate this dog, because this dog has a lot of good qualities and you know, so it, it comes from all [00:24:00] types. Um, but it's, I would say for each client, there's kind of a different point in class where I can sit back and go, oh yeah, they're gonna, they're gonna be okay. Yeah, they're gonna be okay.
Leslie: It is so much effort on both parties, right? Like the dog really has to commit and like do it and so does the client. There's so much involved in it and specifically like we've been talking about this matching process and making sure it's the right dog, and a lot of times we get it right, sometimes we don't, but there's a million factors to really think about that entire process.
What would you say is the biggest challenge of matching.
Katie: I would say one of the more challenging things is that we are working, like you said, with two living beasts, and it's, uh, it's hard when we are seeing things from the dog that we didn't anticipate. Um, a lot of times we will see behaviors from the dog that we saw in the beginning of training and we go, oh yeah, I remember this.
This dog used to do this, and now it's [00:25:00] back because it's with a new person. Um, but I know how to fix this. I know how to teach them how to manage this. Um, but there are sometimes that things pop up and it's like, oh, that's new. I didn't anticipate that. I didn't see that coming. And I would say it's that constant, uh, thinking on your feet.
Um. Yeah, throughout the, throughout the class,
Christina: and you really are dealing with so many emotions, the dog's emotions and the person's emotions and your own emotions. I mean, there's just so much happening in class and really in reality, three weeks is not that long of a time to kind of make sure everyone's good to go and because they say, how long does it really take for a match to be.
Yeah, really good in
Katie: working together. Yeah, so it, we usually talk about it being, uh, six months to a year before the team is more meshed, sometimes up to 18 months where you're waiting, you're working that whole time for this, uh, [00:26:00] relationship to become solid. So it, uh, it's, it is a long process and the three weeks, a lot of people think coming to class that the three weeks is the hard part.
And that's not the hard part. The, the three weeks you are here, you are supported. You're in a consistent environment. You're in a consistent environment. So it's, uh, very supported and hard. It's a difficult process, but once you go home is when the real work starts, because now you have to teach your dog all of the things in this new environment, and you are not having the support that you had here with an instructor.
Leslie: Yes, but luckily you are still always available. Yes. So we do always say, and then I think that's another really important thing that we talk about is like as soon as you, if you start noticing something, like call right away. I think sometimes people are anxious and don't wanna call 'cause they're nervous about it, but like.
The sooner we know, the more [00:27:00] help we can be. And you guys can offer a ton of over the phone support and also in person if needed.
Katie: Yeah. Yeah. We do. We do have the ability to do that. And it's nice, uh, before things have spiraled too deeply to get a heads up. We, we encourage clients. We want them to problem solve.
We want them to try to problem solve. Take the information that you've been given and try to see if you can come up with a solution, but it's. Oh, there's a lot of things that a dog can throw at you, and there's a lot of situations that you can't, we can't prepare you for. Um, so yes, even if it's, uh, something that you have been taught before, but you just, it's just not working like you think it should.
It, uh, it call us. We are always here.
Timothy: Yeah, the first week I came home with Glacier, she, uh, I have a sidewalk less neighborhood and she did not work out really well. The first two days, she would walk across the street, uh, and be on the right side via the curb. So I called Meredith and we fixed it within a day, and she just gotta make sure that the support is [00:28:00] there.
You gotta use it. And, and, and if it's possible they could send somebody down to you where you live, to, you know, help you out. So, uh, always keep leader, dog informed that you got problems. Yeah.
Christina: Yeah. And I think it's important to remember too, that it is a new environment and that. You didn't break the dog.
Everything to be
Timothy: fixed,
Leslie: right? If I haven't broken a dog yet, sure. No one can.
Timothy: Yeah,
Leslie: I always laugh. I've had, we do, uh, dog walks sometimes with clients o and m clients, and so I've been upskilled and I'm using air quotes around upskilled, uh, to take dogs on walks, and I. I can think of several times actually where I've been doing something and then afterwards A-G-D-M-I came over and was like, you know, that dog was just taking advantage of you.
Right? Like he shouldn't have. And I'm like, what? So, uh, it's definitely an expertise that I don't have. But Katie, you do. Thank you so much for being with us today and sharing about the matching process. We appreciate it.
Katie: Yes, you are welcome
Leslie: and thank you so much to our listeners for listening to the Taking the Lead podcast.
I'm Leslie Hoskins with [00:29:00] host Timothy Kyo and Christina Havner. We hope you enjoyed learning about the very unique matching process. Please join us next time as we continue to dive into the world of blindness.
Christina: And if you'd like to learn more about applying to our free services at Leader Dog, you can head to leader dog.org or call us at [phone].
Don't forget, you can reach us at taking the [e-mail] with any questions or ideas. If you like today's podcast, make sure to hit subscribe and check us out wherever podcast Stream.