2 Percent Dooley Podcast | Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR, James Dooley & Karl Hudson

James Dooley, Koray Tuğberk Gübür and Karl Hudson discuss which digital marketing strategies SEO agencies and consultants should focus on, covering partnerships, KPI tracking, brand SEO and AI visibility to drive long term growth.

Show Notes

This video explains which digital marketing strategies SEO agencies and consultants should focus on in 2026 to improve rankings, build trustworthy partnerships and increase the long term value of their businesses. James Dooley and Koray Tuğberk Gübür start with KPI tracking because tracking profit and loss, ranking states and content gaps is what determines whether a website is worth investing in and scaling for this niche. They cover brand SEO, AI visibility and Google Business Profiles because stronger search presence improves trust and conversion rates.

The discussion also explores organic SEO, organic social media and paid social ads because consistent visibility across search and social supports long term growth. PPC is analysed in detail because campaign setup, landing pages and lead handling directly affect results. They also discuss Reddit, Quora and paid AI ads because diversified enquiry sources and early adoption can strengthen digital marketing performance for SEO agencies and consultants.

PromoSEO lead generation for SEO agencies and consultants recently received recognition as the "Best SEO Agencies And Consultants Lead Generation Agency."

Where to Listen to This Episode

2 Percent Dooley Podcast | Koray Tuğberk GÜBÜR, James Dooley & Karl Hudson is available on:

• Watch on YouTube
• Listen on Transistor
• Listen on pod.link
• Listen on Deezer
• Listen on Pocket Casts
• Listen on Podverse
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Creators and Guests

Host

James Dooley

James Dooley is a UK entrepreneur.

What is James Dooley Podcast?

James Dooley is a Manchester-based entrepreneur, investor, and SEO strategist. James Dooley founded FatRank and PromoSEO, two UK performance marketing agencies that deliver no-win-no-fee lead generation and digital growth systems for ambitious businesses. James Dooley positions himself as an Investorpreneur who invests in UK companies with high growth potential because he believes lead generation is the root of all business success.

The James Dooley Podcast explores the mindset, methods, and mechanics of modern entrepreneurship. James Dooley interviews leading marketers, founders, and innovators to reveal the strategies driving online dominance and business scalability. Each episode unpacks the reality of building a business without mentorship, showing how systems, data, and lead flow replace luck and guesswork.

James Dooley shares hard-earned lessons from scaling digital assets and managing SEO teams across more than 650 industries. James Dooley teaches how to convert leads into long-term revenue through brand positioning, technical SEO, and automation. James Dooley built his career on rank and rent, digital real estate, and performance-based marketing because these models align incentive with outcome.

After turning down dozens of podcast invitations, James Dooley now embraces the platform to share his insights on investorpreneurship, lead generation, AI-driven marketing, and reputation management. James Dooley frequently collaborates with elite entrepreneurs to discuss frameworks for scaling businesses, building authority, and mastering search.

James Dooley is also an expert in online reputation management (ORM), having built and rehabilitated corporate brands across the UK. His approach combines SEO precision, brand engineering, and social proof loops to influence both Google’s Knowledge Graph and public perception.

To feature James Dooley on your podcast or event, connect via social media. James Dooley regularly joins business panels and networking sessions to discuss entrepreneurship, brand growth, and the evolving future of SEO.

James Dooley: is the best SEO James is the best okay this update that update this update enough he's and he's saying it to you to okay okay so it's the exact same thing in business you you're going to have these kind of peaks and troughs let's go get massage hello everyone we are with two geniuses here especially business geniuses actually business side is mostly here SEO genius is mostly in this area and we are at the SEO Master Saigon 2024 and since we are coming together here we want to actually record a memo together and we want to help the community by giving some suggestions related to SEO or business or future about the SEO as well and since it is most about business I will start from there James so James when you are about to give actually a business decision what you check first for let's say you want to do an investment to a website and someone just actually needs a business partner he asks you a few things how do you reject maybe kindly or if you don't reject why do you accept what kinds of a potential you see there so with regards to investment um obviously the first things I'm looking at is profit and loss MH um initially and then once I've got the profit and loss and I'm agreeing kind of a figure the main reason of why I'm willing to say yes or no is can I expand on what's already there can I improve the rankings especially if it's in like a positive ranking state and I can see content gaps in the market to scale that up further so if the graphic is going down you don't see it that much if it's negative ranking statement I know there's quite a bit more work involved in building back the momentum to try and get it back going so that will certainly lower my multiplier of what profit is doing so we do a lot of investments every single month into existing websites and for now sorry you can you can explain I was going to say what he also is really good at um obviously I'm a business partner J what what we like to try to do is find areas that we can contribute more so we would probably not get them involved in a business where if we're coming on board and we're not really going to add any value from like a strategy point of view or something then there's no interest for us that the person just needs to we we'll help that person upskill themselves lift them up to you know build their business that's kind of the approach we we take if we can add value to it then we get involved as long as the numbers are correct and you know the positive ranking state or at least a neutral ranking state then yeah we get involved okay and how do you check the numbers numbers they usually go or I believe that you don't deal with the contracts that much you usually have a different style both of you because you instead of contracts you say that contracts are to be broken and you actually try to avoid all these unnecessary cost in terms of time and money and you actually see something in people when you do business how do you decide whether someone is trustworthy or man of word or not so if someone came to me with a brand new website uh sorry a new person came to me with an existing website and they wanted me not to buy all of the website but to partner up with them I've got to like that person I've got to be able to make certain that moving forward long term that I feel I can trust them so if I don't know that person I simply will not buy only 50% of the website I'm either going to buy it all or nothing and if if I'm not certain with regards to who they are to start with I will try to help like what Carle said help to elevate them even allow them to use certain team members and see how they react with my team members um because you've got to make certain you can deal with him in not just obviously if it's in a positive ranking state and it's going up then that's fine but in negative ranking states when things are going bad how are they going to react to those situations so it's very important that the people that I deal with is just as important as their profit and loss sheet and then um make a decision sometimes it is just just from the heart like do you think I can trust them or can I not trust them and don't get me wrong not every single investment that you do always works not every single business partner that you work with do you get on with but what I'm very good and very quickly understand this if I do not like working with him amicably and done in in the best possible way with and integrity there's not one person and call me out on this there's not one business partner he in the SEO community that I've teamed up with that will say they had a negative kind of relationship with me I I don't split off and fall out with people we amicably if it doesn't work because different time zones isn't working for us or I'm my team are putting a lot more work in than them and they think that the four hour work week works well for them and I'm like they're not putting the work and the effort in that I expected them to do then amicably I'll say do you know what I like you but I can't do business with you I'm just to be honest with you sometimes you just need to be straight shoot from the go and this is actually what I really like about you because even if something is not tasty you are able to say it directly and you say it not to break a heart or something you don't say it anger you just say it because it's like that you just explain the truth and you try to make everything more positive as much as possible I think that's also something that people also have to sort of get into the heads that we had a very very big dispute in January and did you no but we were we were but we were butting heads a lot let's say that now like that that can make or break people but from our approaches if you see it and you you know you're upfront and straight with your business partner then it always sets that expectation of the honesty side like you're always going to be honest with them and you always know why each other stand try not to let things build up because you know it's it's that um what's it um mountain into molehill hills into mountains or whatever what's the phrase I can't remember the I love the phrase but Carle is not up I don't know what it is um but yeah it's where you know you let that tiny little seed and it'll grow and grow and grow into something bigger which you know you just have to get it straight off your chest and that helps the partnership grow I think as well like really blossom I think just expanding on that so I'll be open with the the people that are listening in January I was picking up the phone to Carle quite a lot I would say upset but Carle we we're getting presented with a lot of opportunities and there's times I need Carle to say no and the point is with Carle is Carle was saying this is a good opportunity this is a good opportunity this is a good opportunity but there's one thing in life that everybody struggles with and is short of and that's time right so we can't say yes to everything and Carle Carle's judgment on certain things was profitable but it was also very time consuming so I was saying to Carle Carle it's January it's a new year we need to start stopping certain things because we're saying yes to too many things and that's what where we came to logged don't be wrong it wasn't we're best friends do you know what I mean like we go on holiday together we have a good time but having actually having that and I said this to you guys like I quite enjoyed how it was the first time in three years we've got sixteen different businesses together it's the first time in three years we had some sort of disagreement and the fact that we was able to look at each other in the eye and be honest and say this isn't good we need to do this this and this and then at one point Carle was like uh I'm not certain but then the next day we rang up and it was like okay we've slept on it maybe I'm a bit wrong and Carle maybe I'm a bit long and you both give a little bit of leeway to each other and say okay maybe I'm not exactly right Carle's not exactly right but here is the perfect scenario but having that being able to speak to your partner and do that is so important because a lot of partnerships fail because they let it build up and let it build up and let it build up and the build and this thing becomes into something big and it's so minor and they made it turn into something really big and it's time yeah so sometimes if you are teaming up with people you are looking to invest and have new business partners honest trust and integrity is the most important part of this actually I was reading in your blog the fat rank from time to time I still go through it I also suggest everyone too because if you are struggling in the business even if you are a good SEO I I'll also tell it excellent being the best SEO to be honest it doesn't matter try to be the best business person as much as possible and in my own life for instance I always try to avoid doing business with friends to not blend the relationship to not blend the context or the memories because it might be sometimes hard but you always frame business a way of helping friends and having more time with the people you love exactly and also getting help from them and turning all the friends a family through the business yeah and you are very successful for doing that too but many people actually lose their friends while doing the business with them I think a lot of people lose friends when they're honest like or or they not they don't have like the confidence to would be able to pick up the phone if me and you went into business and obviously you are a lot more intelligent than me on the semantics and on the own page but if you were spending too long in certain areas and chasing perfection in a local market where it was like Carle we just need to rank number one and move on to the next niche and move on to the next niche and stuff like that you was like trying to perfect something I'd tell you and I'd be honest with you saying can we not do this in a faster way and you might say well it's not the perfect way of doing it and I might say but is he good enough to rank number one cuz that's all I need and then you move on faster now obviously I would listen and if you said no long term the long-term rankings we need to do X Y and Z then I'd say okay I'm wrong that's fine but again it's just about being vocal and being honest speaking to your business partners and with regards to you're saying about friends and stuff like that I don't go my way to choose business businesses with like say family and my best friends but what starts to happen is I meet some very intelligent people that I trust and what starts to happen is they become my best friends because I spend the third of my life in work spend the third of my life sleeping and I spend the third of my life probably with family so work knowing that I spend a third of my time in work I don't do the work life balance I change it to a work life integration so when you integrate work with friends that you are partners with this is why in January this year I shut down two brands that was very profitable I didn't shut it down we sold it and the reason why we sold it was because the person who I was business partners with was very very good at business but there was very negative about life in general yeah and and I don't I don't need that around my life I need positive people I need to make certain I'm enjoying the journey and some people actually sometimes people can set goals and they can turn around go I want to hit this to a billion pounds well that's fine as long as once you get to half a million pound we're going to go out and celebrate it once we get to a million pound we're going to go out and celebrate it and we're going to enjoy that journey to get to the end destination cuz the end destination exactly and you've got to enjoy the journey otherwise there's no point in even doing it I feel in the same way to be honest do you think in the same win yeah definitely compound effect is everything celebrate the small wins and then the bigger wins become even bigger okay um but I will ask a sceptic question here and I won't disclose anything from anyone's class but let's say you do business with a friend but your friend doesn't work as you do or your friend even if you have a contract he for to exploit some sections or maybe you are a phist and direct you s tell everything as it should be as we talk but the friend gets resentment or bad feelings when you say things directly so in such a situation how we can actually turn this print a useful or efficient business partner or how we can and that partnership without losing the friend again it could honest said so if you you live and die by the sword right so if I say something I mean it so if I turn around to Carle and say Carle you are not working hard enough and Carle thinks that it is and we have a disagreement and Carle doesn't work harder but the agreement was he was going to work in my opinion harder if he doesn't why I say this relationship is not working I'm still friends with with you I just can't do business with you okay and that's different like as long as amicably you can split off and go okay well let's sell the business and get what's best or I might even gift the business over to Carle if that was the scenario but if you're hesitant living die by the sword and you mean every word what you say if if there's resentment from the other side and they fall out with you for what you say but you genuinely mean that well they're not really your friend so you've got to start looking in in in the matter of they've got to at least like when I was saying to Carle in January and I thought I was correct when I slept on it the next day he gave me his side of the story I was like oh yeah okay now I've got to save face a little bit and I'm going back with a little bit of leeway on the face and go actually Carle you're right and sometimes people don't like being seen to be wrong but actually if you're good friends you both got to give and take a little bit and it's like an your last it break and if you don't the elastic break's going to snap you've both got to have a little bit of give say if I'm expecting Carle to do I we'd never do X modes of hours per week but if I'm expecting Carle to um run the operational side now on the sales of marketing and the operational side is failing instead of me moaning at Carle I'm like what can I do to support you even though it's his side of the bargain and he's meant to do that I will bring members of staff in to go what's wrong with the process is it the onboarding of stuff have staff left like because all this when you start to scale out large staffing levels you get members of staff that come and clone your ideas and won't set up their own businesses this just happens in like and you kind of just got to go it is what it is and then and then move on from it as quickly as you can and just keep evolving and innovating yeah you're right escaping from that is not useful and you usually also say one more thing you say that when two persons come together if they're true friends and they are honest and if they care about each other and also the business that two person let's say they have 50% energy and 50% energy when they come together it becomes actually 120% yeah yeah because it creates an extra other energy and that extra energy I guess comes from the happiness that you enjoy with the friend and in the business too I would also say it's the he's kind of hit the nail on the head multiple times there but it's the expectation setting clear expectations and boundaries that's very important because sometimes the boundaries like Carle's way of business might be set way different of my way of business but we both have to understand and respect that and then learn where the middle ground is as soon as you hit that middle ground it's it becomes a lot more forgiving of your business partner and of yourself as well okay um so may ask also Carle how do you meet with James like 10 ten years ago a mastermind at dues to be fair like it was like my first ever you there and Charles char Charles let's say hi to the Charles as well hi Charles Charles the mayor of FBI in in in the UK we've got quite a strong community and anyone that's doing well or anyone that I want to try and elevate and help out in any way shape or form I'll bring to the office and we might have once a quarter 15 20 people coming to the office and we try and help each other out if what we class is like leeches if someone comes and just wants to try and keep taking information and isn't willing to help other peers in that industry in that group as you call little courts if they're not willing to help each other out they will quickly get booted out of the of the court so we've actually got a court a court group right and it's so active it's a private WhatsApp group there's 35 people in there that all absolutely adore you as an individual because you've changed their lives no idea why yeah try get strong as mass person but that's where people like V in there from Auto blogging and he's listening every single day the reason I teamed up with V reached out to me several times and what what got me interested in that tool wasn't the tool it was the founder behind the tool I knew when he was asking the right questions he wanted to innovate every single day what can I improve on so when I was saying this article now was really good it was like I'm not bothered how good it is how can I make it better how can I make it better so then I was like wow no no he's taking up a lot of my time now I'm going to pass you on to my head of content several of my editors and how can you save time by auto blogging making this better and continuously every single day he would want to innovate and he had the kind of mindset if you don't innovate you're going to evaporate and obviously with with the speed of AI moving like it was the founder of auto blogging that made me want to invest in the tool and every single day he's continuously looking to improve and innovate in that court group he's give everyone a free licence every single one of them a free licence I know this so every single one a free licence every single come and use it said like yeah yeah they so nice people I guess but every single one of them feedback uh I don't really like this sentence structure there's too much fluff in the introduction you need to be making certain that there's more contextual flow from this H2 and this H2 and continuously he's like what else is there what else is there removing contextless words like there's everything the consistent some there's some really really high level people yeah some really high level people in that group group that you've trained up that previously they were struggling with that now they're posting their own they don't want to put them publicly on the the Facebook group because they're worried like with what could happen with Google try too many too many people like that they have success but they don't want to share I'm trying to incentivise them yeah to share because when you share more people will see the more people will try then we will have more success again all together but there's so many in that group that would all sit here with you now giving you a video testimonial saying how you've changed our lives that's why I want you to create your Turkish SEO conference cuz all these people will turn up all these people will do video testimonials for you and the haters that don't understand the full court network and how it works and the methodology will actually start to see all these other people who are part of the court that don't shout and scream about you yet will start doing and and with all these case studies that they could also be sharing we're seen it day in day out like I said when I first was looking at the course I was like is he just trying to over complicate things is he trying to use this terminology that makes him sound more intelligent than what it is I score it's just content and links and topical authority is it and then you start to realise that the H2 the positioning of the H2 in the micro content and this should be in the micro content we was internal linking a lot in the introductions now we only do it in the micro content all it just changing more RDF triples the craziest part is like if why I don't understand people who are like the haters let's say is their SEOs which should mean that they're doing tests like we do we have our own testing group test data surely it's very easy to watch oh well it's not easy to watch the course it's quite intense say take few a few elements of the course and test it and then if that works then all of a sudden you like maybe he's done something we'll implement a few more of the tests and then try and that's exactly what we've done across you know thousands of websites now and it's like wow all of a sudden you're getting movements just by prioritisation of the content on the page first of all I am thankful for all of your verse and I am surprised I am didn't cry yet damn that was a great start that was a great start yeah but but literally having you both actually in our community is one of my best chances to be honest and also being able to meet with you both to be honest and I will ask a few more things if you have time you have right okay so if you don't have the time still I will you massage time but all it's okay I will I I will do your massage later don't so you said actually something really important I want to underline it if you don't innovate you will evaporate I hope I didn't butcher the English yeah but it's it's a really really meaningful a good code and speaking of the code I also want to uh make another parenthesis here because you have another famous one at least to me because it changed my actual mindset for many things I hire scammer people yeah so would you like to explain it a little bit what you mean there or I don't explain the moment if you want I can explain the story but it's up to you do you remember when did you tell yeah yeah I completely remember so so the an example of this is I I normally use this terminology if you build an extension on your house would you build that yourself I definitely wouldn't I would get a groundworks person in to come and do the ground works I'd get a concrete in company to come and put the concrete in I'd to get a brick layer in to come and build my wall I'd to get a plumber in to come and put my shower in my sinking I'd get a roofer to do the roof it this is just basic business right and it's project management and with regards to at times you might say but James if you don't understand the core principle of schema and how how this content works I can explain the story because it's a funny one so we were in the Chang Mai and uh we were in also James Mastermind villa which was great and we were in the cinema room or somewhere I believe and again you were drinking or something like that yeah which is also something I admire you are the one who have the most fun most drink and still three o'clock a.m. you are talking about business which I really admire and there we were talking about one of the websites that you are interested in and the website didn't have a proper schema but it it could actually take advantage of the event schema especially for certain trending search uh timeline and I told James straight hey James you don't know some really important things but you made more money than anyone else in the SEO field by using SEO James look at me I just said I hire scammer people so then I just then I realised that actually if you are the best SEO to be honest yes it is actually something that we should admire or congratulate but it's not this exactly end point right we see SEO as a purpose and like the money too we use the money again for family or for memories for our friends but still SEO should be done actually for improving our lives in this case if hiring schema people will actually help you to improve your life in a better way you should just do that rather than actually trying to deal with the schema by yourself and it was one of the really good good good moments for me at least that's why actually I tell it people are at large I mean while I am around you based on your let's say just random sentences they can turn be turned into the quote and also affect the mindset of someone else that's why I'm just underlining some sections between the parentheses so another thing is that in your fight just tell me who cried first never cried to a British hard nails I cried well yeah you called me once then you told me that when you told me that it's a compliment in the north it is yeah in the UK someone calls somebody it means that they like him thanks if I'm nice to you being now means don't like you okay okay I am learning I learning and in the business world I will I will while we are all actually together here I want to keep it a little longer because I know that how valuable it will be for many people and in the business field I believe that many SEOs to be honest they are stuck they always focus on ranking the website cracking the algorithm or just let's say playing with Google convincing Google or trying Google these things make them have more dopamine than actually being successful so how what would you be let's say what would you choose to change let's say three things you want to change in this SEO culture so so these two things I'll do two Carle can do the third right number one reason why most SEOs fail miserably is procrastination that's the first thing procrastination the overthink the second one is perfectionists sixty percent is good enough right in majority of industries so stop procrastinating stop chasing perfection there too Carle not testing yeah not testing and I would also say if I could let parenthesis stubbornness as well like I would I would add one more as well which which helps it actually no cuz this actually really helps with the testing side of things if you do not have the budgets to test because it can be expensive go and draw in some court something that Carle's done in the industry which not many people have done is tried to create court groups and a community that can go into the Facebook group when they've done the course and ask questions and Carle's time is he cannot go back and respond to everyone but there's some absolutely amazing students like I met Pavel in Poland unbelievable guy understands a lot of the semantics of what you've taught and sometimes when you're not available you've got over very high level students that can come and help and what I love about them is that they all credit the source they all cite the sources being this is Carle's methodology which is very important so the fourth one I think is very as well is networking is get yourself out to these like Saigon get yourself out to masterminds get yourself out to conferences if you can't get yourself out there just be part of the groups make certain in that Facebook group if you've got a question don't worry no question is a stupid question go and ask the questions in them groups try network with other people that are high level and elevate and like again if you don't innovate you're going to evaporate keep looking to learn be like V from auto blogging that every single day is a school day that he wants to improve his knowledge base that's another big one with networking your story actually started together thanks of networking you met at mastermind and if if you if someone just stays at home and reads let's say Google Blog all the time and just follow a Googler tweets up until that point that's what I did I've never ever went to a network in a friend ever it was actually Charles was like I really think you should come to this one you know you're doing really good stuff in the niches that you're in and you should come I like and then me being a actually the very first time the very first a compliment the Chang Mai I was too nervous I didn't got really so we went how how some people don't know is how Chang Mai actually started was some people from the UK we used to do these meetups and we used to post certain photos and then you had people like Jason Cussens and Matt Ellmore people know Matt Diggity um they to say why don't we come over to Thailand so fourteen of us from the UK like Charles Floyd and many others we all flew over to Thailand to Chang Mai and we did a mastermind in Chang Mai twenty six of us the first year and when we posted the photos of us all together everybody got formal fear of missing out so the year after we said let's do it again and two hundred and fifty I think there was two hundred and fifty seven people applied to come to the mastermind and at that point Matt says I can turn this into a conference we still run the mastermind at Chang Mai and we still do it we keep it down to sixty people we keep it very high level but what you need to start doing is if you're not accepted yet turn up to the conference learn adapt upskill build sites be part of these court groups keep improving keep building out the SEOs and at some point then might be two three could be five years down there when you become an expert in the field you might be invited to these mastermind events as well it's a perfect story too so basically entire Chang Mai actually started thanks to networking events yeah very much so it's great to know and I must also tell a few things here because you you both uh made really good points about that three things over three uh I believe I also for instance stubbornness that you said actually is connected to some other things too because sometimes humans when they realise that they do something wrong they might be stubborn to accept it for instance I believe I have some perfectionism and I I believe that I should also trim it as much as I can but at the beginning a person is not able to say it like this usually they say no it's not perfectionism or it it doesn't mean that or it should be like that we usually show a kinds of I don't know English word resistance yeah against the truth for instance today too I consulted to both actually about the matter at the beginning for instance I I know that actually not knowing it but let's say you feel like actually answer should be different but once you don't hear the answer that you are seeking for you should also realise that maybe it is a right answer that you are wrong and you should start to change your mindset on that point yeah I am also trying to make it a kind of habit because sometimes since we look entire planet from our mind it always works in a single way and it always has the same type of answer but when you are open to the other answers too your mind start actually starts to grow and I guess this networking events does it all the time in a reflexive way too okay so you both actually say it in a really really really good points and also your speech Q&A great too and must also ask maybe one more thing before the beginning don't laugh it's important because I actually wanted to both you both you on the stage on for my own events because I know that you usually don't go on public for the various reasons you started to go on public and you go on the stage and actually all the key people in this sorry already know both you both but the let's say the maybe we can tell more common uh English is not my mother language if I'm insulting some sorry but more common people usually don't know so why did you change that communication let's say strategy what was the motive behind it so for me personally um as AI now is here and people are scaling a lot of things out to do with AI a big differentiator factor is personal branding um where I used to always hustle and silence and like success be the noise now I do feel that um personal branding is very very important I also actually want to give back to a lot of people to the community I've always elevated a lot of people there's a lot of people in the industry that people might not know or there a lot of mini success stories where I've helped people and they've gone sold for five ten fifteen million pounds and if they asked who was the biggest mentor that say myself but actually now on a bigger level I want to now try and start understanding there's a lot of SEOs that don't understand business proper and I want to try to help them people because they're working hard I'm seeing these events and they're not getting the best sale price that they can they've worked really hard for three four years and they might only be selling the business for half a million when it could be worth two million pounds so if I can help just a few more people and leave some sort of legacy behind that's know from my personal point of view for personal branding purposes understand very much say the same um same sort of approach except obviously my background was a lot with James has always been like the business side first whereas mine was very much SEO first so it was kind of like me and James having a conversation obviously all about brand entities um the differences between AI and you know the future of what AI will do to the SEO industry and we were kind of like well we either step into the limelight now and start allowing Google to connect those entities with ourselves as well so you know any future projects we work on could could go positively and then um the other side to it for me personally is I am an SEO I have the same patterns that most people in that room have and suffered from or still suffer from yeah so it's quite probably quite nice for them on stage because obviously James is quite the you know the extravagant type out there guy you know what I mean everyone looks at him is like wow how's he got so much energy and all that whereas I'm often see there's more the quiet reserved might study the room type guy and I think that kind of complements the approach as you know some people might connect with me on the stage a little bit more because they can see that demeanor unless I've had a few drinks and then they might connect with James more though and together it sort of it sort of meshes together like a good network okay and I know many SEOs late start to lose their websites and I also know that the true winners actually give the different reactions for I lost three thousand websites I say it on the stage years ago but it turns out great because I didn't give up what type of a message would you like to give these people because if you have a similar experience for instance you have thousands of websites when you lose one of ten or maybe multiple of ten what you do as a reaction ever yeah you've got to adapt um every single day you got to make make certain that um tomorrow an algorithm update could come and you could get the index you could be seen to buy backlinks which is against Google guidelines you could have a lot of thin content pages that Google don't like and they change the dials of how much thin content pages that you do and if you do kind of start back from zero something that you do have is if you have built a community of people around you and a good network of people around you you will have people that will help you out but two there one thing that Google or anybody else can't take and that's the knowledge that you've earned over the years so I would make certain that you are doing traffic diversity anyway that you're not relying on Bing or Google or Facebook or Twitter or TikTok or Pinterest in isolation try and build real brands that traffic diversity is great actually for SEO purposes as well yeah but actually you're diversifying the income strings try and like build an email list if you can nobody can set this away from you you've got that information you've got that data so you've got to roll up your sleeves and go again if you get knockbacks but in life it's never growth is never linear it's always up and down up and down up and down it's like it's almost like this and then it goes up do you know what I mean there there's a lot of a a lot of people kind of are in a hockey stick approach where it's flatline flatline flatline flatl flatl flat bam and if they keep doing the right thing it's it's never linear so keep networking keep trying to do what you think's right if it's not working ask other people for help it's kind of like in within your course you mention you know the positive neutral and negative ranking states and you'll never win all algorithm updates it's just not how the algorithm works so it's the exact same thing in business you you're going to have these kind of peaks and troughs it's just dealing with the peaks and the troughs and then working out how to neutralise then coming back into the positive it's exactly the same it just must be hard for you because you never have the downs you okay before the finish what would you change on James three things what would I change on him question too it's only Carle right here what I'd say at least fifteen things so surprisingly with James I would say he gets so many opportunities but he it's one of my weaknesses as well which he highlighted at the start is he also says yes or no and he wants me to say no but I'm also not the no guy so I struggle to say no and this that's the problem so this is one of the reasons why we had quite a big tiff like a locker heads in January and it's because we're both yes man is it because you want to help others yes exactly so I get a lot of people come to me that will gift me thirty three percent of the business now that business could be worth two million and they're gifting it to me so I kind of go okay but then what I don't then realise is obviously generally speaking when someone does look to gift you something they do want something in return and normally it's time and I can't give lots of time so there's times where I need to be okay Carle there's an opportunity there you go and analyse it because I've got ten other opportunities here as well and Carle be like that's a really good idea that's a really good idea that's a really good idea and and yes we are both yes and yes there's times that I do want to help people but I think it's it's a weakness of mine that I say yes to try and elevate others but I've got two amazing kids in yes two shut up look look at them yeah it's tactical s your side oh small improvements could be made let's just say that like I'd always says you'd hire a fracking builder to build a house but like sometimes I remember it from Birmingham a moment I remember a snapshot exactly I am the worst in the room there was four hundred people in the room and I would guarantee I'm the worst I don't even think I've been to every I know to log into my register and buy them so we actually became registered and the first thing he says to us is uh Carle can you do an S so me team know how to move these domains or but oh my God and then the third point he pins his toenails I remember that yeah he says like like in a proud way too when I see that actually he tries to say oh well some some amazing footballer called Christian I believe it's a fake story he just leaves his inner person it's it's just the hidden hidden side of the James you know but in all fairness obviously a flaws kind of complement each other so I know one of my so James one of his assets is one of my downfalls I I am very risk averse that like ask my partner Carole I'm very risk averse James is a bit more of a gambler than I am and then because of that it's kind of like it's sort of a again meshes together like a really good partnership should you say the sentence that starts with the flaws the flaws complete each other or something the flaws are strong compliments compliment I believe it should be another quote yeah here too it's a real nice summary too okay what would you change um I change yours I'd want him to say no more because that's a that's a common trait of man and I didn't realise how much how much of a yes man he was um not top be in this now that's cuz I've gotten none I I'd like to change it the other way around and I'd like to say that instead of the flaws of what he has he's got some absolutely he's close to his family he's close to he's got a lot of friends around him which I think is very important cuz then from growing up there's a lot of people that are sticking around him and like like what he has to do um he actually I don't like saying flaws about anyone because we've all got flaws so actually he knows his own internal flaws and he works on his own internal flaws so and I don't want to put that out to the universe of what his flaws are I'd soonly say that as a business partner he an amazing business partner we work really really well together and we help each other we all have that we all have days where things could be down you could have a manual action penalty and he's there Jery come and drive down let's go and let's go to the gym let's go and do a plunge pool I'm mean for you to support you so but SEO yeah I I was to think about that because this is this is what I really enjoy talking about not like all the SEO this update that update this update enough okay there is there are like two updates every day it's mad how emotionally driven SEO is in a data science is data science is numbers and crunching yet somehow emotions get involved it's true when it comes to the changing mind I would decrease your fed percentage a little bit you might need that I can't cut this SEO out I just I just I'm just on full blood that's why of alcohol I'm joking by the way I'm fitter than you to it's okay so I'd like to say something to the community that's going to be watching this Carle is absolutely changed the whole SEO industry for the better some people don't understand the methodology if you do not understand the methodology go and do the course at the end of the course if you don't like it and you disagree with it I'll refund you right go and do that course because it will well then actually do it again do it a second time because I was a third I've only done it one time I'm not doing it again no chance but the team the the people that you've elevated around you there's so many people that you don't understand how many likes that you've changed like the methodology there of what you've done is unbelievable for the community SEO bill slesinski would absolutely adore everything of what you've done you've taken what he was trying to do onto another level and it's a credit to what what you've done for the industry one minor huge flaw he's a cat guy maybe you know I mean he's a cat guy okay three things change okay tell three you can count ten if you want he's quite he's an you know he's an emotional guy he's like change one of the main questions he always comes to us with isn't it it's like how do I say how do I say no to someone that's exactly without hurting their feelings and he's saying it to too people who don't say no so I would say and this is I mean this in a nice way but you are way too nice you give too much time and this and time is everything that we are restricted on but you give too much time to people who are trying to argue against methodology you need to get your core your group your students to support you in every way possible with that in mind it's like for instance one of the if you don't mind us sharing this one of the points today was kind of along that avenue is you know feedback within the groups is affecting them and then that feedback is because what is being shared might not necessarily be correct yeah however it's not correct because Carle likes perfection yeah it's true or it's not he's not the correct man but you should not let that get to you as an individual shouldn't affect like you and I think you overly you've said that in Turkey if there's a disagreement normally settled with like antic of and you're quite direct I think you're all way trying to compliment not getting your into any argument he going a bit red yeah he's getting a bit getting a bit try to try to not like you need you need that Carle group around you to finish that course to support you in every way because the people that do not do the course are just going to try to say there's easier ways to do it you can go and get AI concept written by any AI tool do not try to improve the tool go and get yourself some battening and there you are you can write number one in Google it's like you're just trying to cut corners and you might have a knee a positive finding state for a while and then when you turn around and get hit you're just going to keep building up SEOs and keep getting hit go out there if you've not done the course do it if you have done it do it again if you ever hear any people in the groups make certain if he has if he has changed your life you probably if go out and in other groups if someone's mentioning in say what you've learned and if you can post any case studies publicly you might not want you because you might not want Google to know about them or you might not want other people to clone like the niche but go out there and do your best to try and support him because he has changed so many lives in the SEO community thank you so much when you actually share these things it also works in a different way too because it makes me happy to share all these things but then while sharing these things you also take risks too and usually people don't see that side that much so thank you so much for saying well this is it means a lot to me and I would like to actually continue to do this podcast as much as possible whenever we come together and I told the name it's two percent James is it good you approve yeah definitely two percent like it two percent James then so I really actually I really love the business thanks to these type of friendships and these type of memories because I know that even ten years later I will remember this moment and I will watch it with joy and it it's worth more than anything to be honest and two percent James the first episode let's say it's completed let do one in Turkey yeah let's get it let's get it done in Turkey at the conference get your bloody conference organised let's get it done okay if you have like half a million white PR yeah I will call them they can do you may should like sixty million or something zero yeah yeah he has some stuff we I hope he's a yes man okay everyone so I believe we can talk actually like maybe I don't know ten hours later ten hours more it makes me really happy to be able to actually have this moment and this connection and we will continue to have it maybe with extra people but I must tell this before the ending I really feel lucky to be able to meet with both of you usually maybe I can't at this since the maybe I can name the city it's okay since the Brighton I always feel like actually UK wasn't my zone but once I see you I feel like okay finally there is a manly men group who I can be connected to and I can feel it I belong to here it was a great feeling to be honest and it changed my idea and vision for UK as well so thank you for everything that you both also did for me and with the say two person James the first episode is completed let's go get massage James learned everything that he learned from Carle and James will be on the street without Carle

Carle: Let me interject here on some of the points about partnerships.

James Dooley: Yeah, go ahead.

Carle: I was going to say what he also is really good at um obviously I'm a business partner J what what we like to try to do is find areas that we can contribute more so we would probably not get them involved in a business where if we're coming on board and we're not really going to add any value from like a strategy point of view or something then there's no interest for us that the person just needs to we we'll help that person upskill themselves lift them up to you know build their business that's kind of the approach we we take if we can add value to it then we get involved as long as the numbers are correct and you know the positive ranking state or at least a neutral ranking state then yeah we get involved.

James Dooley: Okay and how do you check the numbers? Numbers they usually go or I believe that you don't deal with the contracts that much you usually have a different style both of you because you instead of contracts you say that contracts are to be broken and you actually try to avoid all these unnecessary cost in terms of time and money and you actually see something in people when you do business how do you decide whether someone is trustworthy or man of word or not?

Carle: So if someone came to me with a brand new website uh sorry a new person came to me with an existing website and they wanted me not to buy all of the website but to partner up with them I've got to like that person I've got to be able to make certain that moving forward long term that I feel I can trust them so if I don't know that person I simply will not buy only fifty percent of the website I'm either going to buy it all or nothing and if if I'm not certain with regards to who they are to start with I will try to help like what James said help to elevate them even allow them to use certain team members and see how they react with my team members um because you've got to make certain you can deal with him in not just obviously if it's in a positive ranking state and it's going up then that's fine but in negative ranking states when things are going bad how are they going to react to those situations so it's very important that the people that I deal with is just as important as their profit and loss sheet and then um make a decision sometimes it is just just from the heart like do you think I can trust them or can I not trust them and don't get me wrong not every single investment that you do always works not every single business partner that you work with do you get on with but what I'm very good and very quickly understand this if I do not like working with him amicably and done in in the best possible way with and integrity there's not one person and call me out on this there's not one business partner he in the SEO community that I've teamed up with that will say they had a negative kind of relationship with me I I don't split off and fall out with people we amicably if it doesn't work because different time zones isn't working for us or I'm my team are putting a lot more work in than them and they think that the four hour work week works well for them and I'm like they're not putting the work and the effort in that I expected them to do then amicably I'll say do you know what I like you but I can't do business with you I'm just to be honest with you sometimes you just need to be straight shoot from the go.

Unknown Guest: And this is actually what I really like about you because even if something is not tasty you are able to say it directly and you say it not to break a heart or something you don't say it anger you just say it because it's like that you just explain the truth and you try to make everything more positive as much as possible I think that's also something that people also have to sort of get into the heads that we had a very very big dispute in January and did you know but we were we were but we were butting heads a lot let's say that now like that that can make or break people but from our approaches if you see it and you you know you're upfront and straight with your business partner then it always sets that expectation of the honesty side like you're always going to be honest with them and you always know why each other stand try not to let things build up because you know it's it's that um what's it um mountain into molehill hills into mountains or whatever what's the phrase I can't remember the I love the phrase but Carle is not up I don't know what it is um but yeah it's where you know you let that tiny little seed and it'll grow and grow and grow into something bigger which you know you just have to get it straight off your chest and that helps the partnership grow I think as well like really blossom.

James Dooley: I think just expanding on that so I'll be open with the the people that are listening in January I was picking up the phone to Carle quite a lot I would say upset but Carle we we're getting presented with a lot of opportunities and there's times I need Carle to say no and the point is with Carle is Carle was saying this is a good opportunity this is a good opportunity this is a good opportunity but there's one thing in life that everybody struggles with and is short of and that's time right so we can't say yes to everything and Carle Carle's judgment on certain things was profitable but it was also very time consuming so I was saying to Carle Carle it's January it's a new year we need to start stopping certain things because we're saying yes to too many things and that's what where we came to logged don't be wrong it wasn't we're best friends do you know what I mean like we go on holiday together we have a good time but having actually having that and I said this to you guys like I quite enjoyed how it was the first time in three years we've got sixteen different businesses together it's the first time in three years we had some sort of disagreement and the fact that we was able to look at each other in the eye and be honest and say this isn't good we need to do this this and this and then at one point Carle was like uh I'm not certain but then the next day we rang up and it was like okay we've slept on it maybe I'm a bit wrong and Carle maybe I'm a bit long and you both give a little bit of leeway to each other and say okay maybe I'm not exactly right Carle's not exactly right but here is the perfect scenario but having that being able to speak to your partner and do that is so important because a lot of partnerships fail because they let it build up and let it build up and let it build up and the build and this thing becomes into something big and it's so minor and they made it turn into something really big and it's time yeah so sometimes if you are teaming up with people you are looking to invest and have new business partners honest trust and integrity is the most important part of this.

Unknown Guest: Actually I was reading in your blog the fat rank from time to time I still go through it I also suggest everyone too because if you are struggling in the business even if you are a good SEO I I'll also tell it excellent being the best SEO to be honest it doesn't matter try to be the best business person as much as possible and in my own life for instance I always try to avoid doing business with friends to not blend the relationship to not blend the context or the memories because it might be sometimes hard but you always frame business a way of helping friends and having more time with the people you love.

James Dooley: Exactly and also getting help from them and turning all the friends a family through the business yeah and you are very successful for doing that too but many people actually lose their friends while doing the business with them I think a lot of people lose friends when they're honest like or or they not they don't have like the confidence to would be able to pick up the phone if me and you went into business and obviously you are a lot more intelligent than me on the semantics and on the own page but if you were spending too long in certain areas and chasing perfection in a local market where it was like Carle we just need to rank number one and move on to the next niche and move on to the next niche and stuff like that you was like trying to perfect something I'd tell you and I'd be honest with you saying can we not do this in a faster way and you might say well it's not the perfect way of doing it and I might say but is he good enough to rank number one cuz that's all I need and then you move on faster now obviously I would listen and if you said no long term the long-term rankings we need to do X Y and Z then I'd say okay I'm wrong that's fine but again it's just about being vocal and being honest speaking to your business partners and with regards to you're saying about friends and stuff like that I don't go my way to choose business businesses with like say family and my best friends but what starts to happen is I meet some very intelligent people that I trust and what starts to happen is they become my best friends because I spend the third of my life in work spend the third of my life sleeping and I spend the third of my life probably with family so work knowing that I spend a third of my time in work I don't do the work life balance I change it to a work life integration so when you integrate work with friends that you are partners with this is why in January this year I shut down two brands that was very profitable I didn't shut it down we sold it and the reason why we sold it was because the person who I was business partners with was very very good at business but there was very negative about life in general yeah and and I don't I don't need that around my life I need positive people I need to make certain I'm enjoying the journey and some people actually sometimes people can set goals and they can turn around go I want to hit this to a billion pounds well that's fine as long as once you get to half a million pound we're going to go out and celebrate it once we get to a million pound we're going to go out and celebrate it and we're going to enjoy that journey to get to the end destination cuz the end destination exactly and you've got to enjoy the journey otherwise there's no point in even doing it I feel in the same way to be honest.

Carle: Do you think in the same win yeah definitely compound effect is everything celebrate the small wins and then the bigger wins become even bigger.

Unknown Guest: Okay um but I will ask a sceptic question here and I won't disclose anything from anyone's class but let's say you do business with a friend but your friend doesn't work as you do or your friend even if you have a contract he for to exploit some sections or maybe you are a phist and direct you s tell everything as it should be as we talk but the friend gets resentment or bad feelings when you say things directly so in such a situation how we can actually turn this print a useful or efficient business partner or how we can and that partnership without losing the friend again it could honest said so if you you live and die by the sword right so if I say something I mean it so if I turn around to Carle and say Carle you are not working hard enough and Carle thinks that it is and we have a disagreement and Carle doesn't work harder but the agreement was he was going to work in my opinion harder if he doesn't why I say this relationship is not working I'm still friends with with you I just can't do business with you okay and that's different like as long as amicably you can split off and go okay well let's sell the business and get what's best or I might even gift the business over to Carle if that was the scenario but if you're hesitant living die by the sword and you mean every word what you say if if there's resentment from the other side and they fall out with you for what you say but you genuinely mean that well they're not really your friend so you've got to start looking in in in the matter of they've got to at least like when I was saying to Carle in January and I thought I was correct when I slept on it the next day he gave me his side of the story I was like oh yeah okay now I've got to save face a little bit and I'm going back with a little bit of leeway on the face and go actually Carle you're right and sometimes people don't like being seen to be wrong but actually if you're good friends you both got to give and take a little bit and it's like an your last it break and if you don't the elastic break's going to snap you've both got to have a little bit of give say if I'm expecting Carle to do I we'd never do X modes of hours per week but if I'm expecting Carle to um run the operational side now on the sales of marketing and the operational side is failing instead of me moaning at Carle I'm like what can I do to support you even though it's his side of the bargain and he's meant to do that I will bring members of staff in to go what's wrong with the process is it the onboarding of stuff have staff left like because all this when you start to scale out large staffing levels you get members of staff that come and clone your ideas and won't set up their own businesses this just happens in like and you kind of just got to go it is what it is and then and then move on from it as quickly as you can and just keep evolving and innovating.

Unknown Guest: Yeah you're right escaping from that is not useful and you usually also say one more thing you say that when two persons come together if they're true friends and they are honest and if they care about each other and also the business that two person let's say they have fifty percent energy and fifty percent energy when they come together it becomes actually one hundred and twenty percent yeah yeah because it creates an extra other energy and that extra energy I guess comes from the happiness that you enjoy with the friend and in the business too.

Carle: I would also say it's the he's kind of hit the nail on the head multiple times there but it's the expectation setting clear expectations and boundaries that's very important because sometimes the boundaries like Carle's way of business might be set way different of my way of business but we both have to understand and respect that and then learn where the middle ground is as soon as you hit that middle ground it's it becomes a lot more forgiving of your business partner and of yourself as well.

Unknown Guest: Okay um so may ask also Carle how do you meet with James like ten ten years ago a mastermind at dues to be fair like it was like my first ever you there and Charles char Charles let's say hi to the Charles as well hi Charles Charles the mayor of FBI in in in the UK we've got quite a strong community and anyone that's doing well or anyone that I want to try and elevate and help out in any way shape or form I'll bring to the office and we might have once a quarter fifteen twenty people coming to the office and we try and help each other out if what we class is like leeches if someone comes and just wants to try and keep taking information and isn't willing to help other peers in that industry in that group as you call little courts if they're not willing to help each other out they will quickly get booted out of the of the court so we've actually got a court a court group right and it's so active it's a private WhatsApp group there's thirty five people in there that all absolutely adore you as an individual because you've changed their lives no idea why yeah try get strong as mass person but that's where people like V in there from auto blogging and he's listening every single day the reason I teamed up with V reached out to me several times and what what got me interested in that tool wasn't the tool it was the founder behind the tool I knew when he was asking the right questions he wanted to innovate every single day what can I improve on so when I was saying this article now was really good it was like I'm not bothered how good it is how can I make it better how can I make it better so then I was like wow no no he's taking up a lot of my time now I'm going to pass you on to my head of content several of my editors and how can you save time by auto blogging making this better and continuously every single day he would want to innovate and he had the kind of mindset if you don't innovate you're going to evaporate and obviously with with the speed of AI moving like it was the founder of auto blogging that made me want to invest in the tool and every single day he's continuously looking to improve and innovate.

James Dooley: In that court group he's give everyone a free licence every single one of them a free licence I know this so every single one a free licence every single come and use it said like yeah yeah they so nice people I guess but every single one of them feedback uh I don't really like this sentence structure there's too much fluff in the introduction you need to be making certain that there's more contextual flow from this H2 and this H2 and continuously he's like what else is there what else is there removing contextless words like there's everything the consistent some there's some really really high level people yeah some really high level people in that group group that you've trained up that previously they were struggling with that now they're posting their own they don't want to put them publicly on the the Facebook group because they're worried like with what could happen with Google try too many too many people like that they have success but they don't want to share I'm trying to incentivise them yeah to share because when you share more people will see the more people will try then we will have more success again all together but there's so many in that group that would all sit here with you now giving you a video testimonial saying how you've changed our lives that's why I want you to create your Turkish SEO conference cuz all these people will turn up all these people will do video testimonials for you and the haters that don't understand the full court network and how it works and the methodology will actually start to see all these other people who are part of the court that don't shout and scream about you yet will start doing and and with all these case studies that they could also be sharing we're seen it day in day out like I said when I first was looking at the course I was like is he just trying to over complicate things is he trying to use this terminology that makes him sound more intelligent than what it is I score it's just content and links and topical authority is it and then you start to realise that the H2 the positioning of the H2 in the micro content and this should be in the micro content we was internal linking a lot in the introductions now we only do it in the micro content all it just changing more RDF triples the craziest part is like if why I don't understand people who are like the haters let's say is their SEOs which should mean that they're doing tests like we do we have our own testing group test data surely it's very easy to watch oh well it's not easy to watch the course it's quite intense say take few a few elements of the course and test it and then if that works then all of a sudden you like maybe he's done something we'll implement a few more of the tests and then try and that's exactly what we've done across you know thousands of websites now and it's like wow all of a sudden you're getting movements just by prioritisation of the content on the page first of all I am thankful for all of your verse and I am surprised I am didn't cry yet damn that was a great start that was a great start yeah but but literally having you both actually in our community is one of my best chances to be honest and also being able to meet with you both to be honest and I will ask a few more things if you have time you have right okay so if you don't have the time still I will you massage time but all it's okay I will I I will do your massage later don't so you said actually something really important I want to underline it if you don't innovate you will evaporate I hope I didn't butcher the English yeah but it's it's a really really meaningful a good code and speaking of the code I also want to uh make another parenthesis here because you have another famous one at least to me because it changed my actual mindset for many things I hire scammer people yeah so would you like to explain it a little bit what you mean there or I don't explain the moment if you want I can explain the story but it's up to you do you remember when did you tell yeah yeah I completely remember so so the an example of this is I I normally use this terminology if you build an extension on your house would you build that yourself I definitely wouldn't I would get a groundworks person in to come and do the ground works I'd get a concrete in company to come and put the concrete in I'd to get a brick layer in to come and build my wall I'd to get a plumber in to come and put my shower in my sinking I'd get a roofer to do the roof it this is just basic business right and it's project management and with regards to at times you might say but James if you don't understand the core principle of schema and how how this content works I can explain the story because it's a funny one so we were in the Chang Mai and uh we were in also James Mastermind villa which was great and we were in the cinema room or somewhere I believe and again you were drinking or something like that yeah which is also something I admire you are the one who have the most fun most drink and still three o'clock a.m. you are talking about business which I really admire and there we were talking about one of the websites that you are interested in and the website didn't have a proper schema but it it could actually take advantage of the event schema especially for certain trending search uh timeline and I told James straight hey James you don't know some really important things but you made more money than anyone else in the SEO field by using SEO James look at me I just said I hire scammer people so then I just then I realised that actually if you are the best SEO to be honest yes it is actually something that we should admire or congratulate but it's not this exactly end point right we see SEO as a purpose and like the money too we use the money again for family or for memories for our friends but still SEO should be done actually for improving our lives in this case if hiring schema people will actually help you to improve your life in a better way you should just do that rather than actually trying to deal with the schema by yourself and it was one of the really good good good moments for me at least that's why actually I tell it people are at large I mean while I am around you based on your let's say just random sentences they can turn be turned into the quote and also affect the mindset of someone else that's why I'm just underlining some sections between the parentheses so another thing is that in your fight just tell me who cried first never cried to a British hard nails I cried well yeah you called me once then you told me that when you told me that it's a compliment in the north it is yeah in the UK someone calls somebody it means that they like him thanks if I'm nice to you being now means don't like you okay okay I am learning I learning and in the business world I will I will while we are all actually together here I want to keep it a little longer because I know that how valuable it will be for many people and in the business field I believe that many SEOs to be honest they are stuck they always focus on ranking the website cracking the algorithm or just let's say playing with Google convincing Google or trying Google these things make them have more dopamine than actually being successful so how what would you be let's say what would you choose to change let's say three things you want to change in this SEO culture.

James Dooley: So so these two things I'll do two Carle can do the third right number one reason why most SEOs fail miserably is procrastination that's the first thing procrastination the overthink the second one is perfectionists sixty percent is good enough right in majority of industries so stop procrastinating stop chasing perfection there too Carle not testing yeah not testing and I would also say if I could let parenthesis stubbornness as well like I would I would add one more as well which which helps it actually no cuz this actually really helps with the testing side of things if you do not have the budgets to test because it can be expensive go and draw in some court something that Carle's done in the industry which not many people have done is tried to create court groups and a community that can go into the Facebook group when they've done the course and ask questions and Carle's time is he cannot go back and respond to everyone but there's some absolutely amazing students like I met Pavel in Poland unbelievable guy understands a lot of the semantics of what you've taught and sometimes when you're not available you've got over very high level students that can come and help and what I love about them is that they all credit the source they all cite the sources being this is Carle's methodology which is very important so the fourth one I think is very as well is networking is get yourself out to these like Saigon get yourself out to masterminds get yourself out to conferences if you can't get yourself out there just be part of the groups make certain in that Facebook group if you've got a question don't worry no question is a stupid question go and ask the questions in them groups try network with other people that are high level and elevate and like again if you don't innovate you're going to evaporate keep looking to learn be like V from auto blogging that every single day is a school day that he wants to improve his knowledge base that's another big one with networking your story actually started together thanks of networking you met at mastermind and if if you if someone just stays at home and reads let's say Google Blog all the time and just follow a Googler tweets up until that point that's what I did I've never ever went to a network in a friend ever it was actually Charles was like I really think you should come to this one you know you're doing really good stuff in the niches that you're in and you should come I like and then me being a actually the very first time the very first a compliment the Chang Mai I was too nervous I didn't got really so we went how how some people don't know is how Chang Mai actually started was some people from the UK we used to do these meetups and we used to post certain photos and then you had people like Jason Cussens and Matt Ellmore people know Matt Diggity um they to say why don't we come over to Thailand so fourteen of us from the UK like Charles Floyd and many others we all flew over to Thailand to Chang Mai and we did a mastermind in Chang Mai twenty six of us the first year and when we posted the photos of us all together everybody got formal fear of missing out so the year after we said let's do it again and two hundred and fifty I think there was two hundred and fifty seven people applied to come to the mastermind and at that point Matt says I can turn this into a conference we still run the mastermind at Chang Mai and we still do it we keep it down to sixty people we keep it very high level but what you need to start doing is if you're not accepted yet turn up to the conference learn adapt upskill build sites be part of these court groups keep improving keep building out the SEOs and at some point then might be two three could be five years down there when you become an expert in the field you might be invited to these mastermind events as well it's a perfect story too so basically entire Chang Mai actually started thanks to networking events yeah very much so it's great to know and I must also tell a few things here because you you both uh made really good points about that three things over three uh I believe I also for instance stubbornness that you said actually is connected to some other things too because sometimes humans when they realise that they do something wrong they might be stubborn to accept it for instance I believe I have some perfectionism and I I believe that I should also trim it as much as I can but at the beginning a person is not able to say it like this usually they say no it's not perfectionism or it it doesn't mean that or it should be like that we usually show a kinds of I don't know English word resistance yeah against the truth for instance today too I consulted to both actually about the matter at the beginning for instance I I know that actually not knowing it but let's say you feel like actually answer should be different but once you don't hear the answer that you are seeking for you should also realise that maybe it is a right answer that you are wrong and you should start to change your mindset on that point yeah I am also trying to make it a kind of habit because sometimes since we look entire planet from our mind it always works in a single way and it always has the same type of answer but when you are open to the other answers too your mind start actually starts to grow and I guess this networking events does it all the time in a reflexive way too okay so you both actually say it in a really really really good points and also your speech Q&A great too and must also ask maybe one more thing before the beginning don't laugh it's important because I actually wanted to both you both you on the stage on for my own events because I know that you usually don't go on public for the various reasons you started to go on public and you go on the stage and actually all the key people in this sorry already know both you both but the let's say the maybe we can tell more common uh English is not my mother language if I'm insulting some sorry but more common people usually don't know so why did you change that communication let's say strategy what was the motive behind it so for me personally um as AI now is here and people are scaling a lot of things out to do with AI a big differentiator factor is personal branding um where I used to always hustle and silence and like success be the noise now I do feel that um personal branding is very very important I also actually want to give back to a lot of people to the community I've always elevated a lot of people there's a lot of people in the industry that people might not know or there a lot of mini success stories where I've helped people and they've gone sold for five ten fifteen million pounds and if they asked who was the biggest mentor that say myself but actually now on a bigger level I want to now try and start understanding there's a lot of SEOs that don't understand business proper and I want to try to help them people because they're working hard I'm seeing these events and they're not getting the best sale price that they can they've worked really hard for three four years and they might only be selling the business for half a million when it could be worth two million pounds so if I can help just a few more people and leave some sort of legacy behind that's know from my personal point of view for personal branding purposes understand very much.

Carle: Say the same um same sort of approach except obviously my background was a lot with James has always been like the business side first whereas mine was very much SEO first so it was kind of like me and James having a conversation obviously all about brand entities um the differences between AI and you know the future of what AI will do to the SEO industry and we were kind of like well we either step into the limelight now and start allowing Google to connect those entities with ourselves as well so you know any future projects we work on could could go positively and then um the other side to it for me personally is I am an SEO I have the same patterns that most people in that room have and suffered from or still suffer from yeah so it's quite probably quite nice for them on stage because obviously James is quite the you know the extravagant type out there guy you know what I mean everyone looks at him is like wow how's he got so much energy and all that whereas I'm often see there's more the quiet reserved might study the room type guy and I think that kind of complements the approach as you know some people might connect with me on the stage a little bit more because they can see that demeanor unless I've had a few drinks and then they might connect with James more though and together it sort of it sort of meshes together like a good network.

Unknown Guest: Okay and I know many SEOs late start to lose their websites and I also know that the true winners actually give the different reactions for I lost three thousand websites I say it on the stage years ago but it turns out great because I didn't give up what type of a message would you like to give these people because if you have a similar experience for instance you have thousands of websites when you lose one of ten or maybe multiple of ten what you do as a reaction ever.

James Dooley: Yeah you've got to adapt um every single day you got to make make certain that um tomorrow an algorithm update could come and you could get the index you could be seen to buy backlinks which is against Google guidelines you could have a lot of thin content pages that Google don't like and they change the dials of how much thin content pages that you do and if you do kind of start back from zero something that you do have is if you have built a community of people around you and a good network of people around you you will have people that will help you out but two there one thing that Google or anybody else can't take and that's the knowledge that you've earned over the years so I would make certain that you are doing traffic diversity anyway that you're not relying on Bing or Google or Facebook or Twitter or TikTok or Pinterest in isolation try and build real brands that traffic diversity is great actually for SEO purposes as well yeah but actually you're diversifying the income strings try and like build an email list if you can nobody can set this away from you you've got that information you've got that data so you've got to roll up your sleeves and go again if you get knockbacks but in life it's never growth is never linear it's always up and down up and down up and down it's like it's almost like this and then it goes up do you know what I mean there there's a lot of a a lot of people kind of are in a hockey stick approach where it's flatline flatline flatline flatl flatl flat bam and if they keep doing the right thing it's it's never linear so keep networking keep trying to do what you think's right if it's not working ask other people for help it's kind of like in within your course you mention you know the positive neutral and negative ranking states and you'll never win all algorithm updates it's just not how the algorithm works so it's the exact same thing in business you you're going to have these kind of peaks and troughs it's just dealing with the peaks and the troughs and then working out how to neutralise then coming back into the positive it's exactly the same it just must be hard for you because you never have the downs you.

Unknown Guest: Okay before the finish what would you change on James three things what would I change on him question too it's only Carle right here what I'd say at least fifteen things so surprisingly with James I would say he gets so many opportunities but he it's one of my weaknesses as well which he highlighted at the start is he also says yes or no and he wants me to say no but I'm also not the no guy so I struggle to say no and this that's the problem so this is one of the reasons why we had quite a big tiff like a locker heads in January and it's because we're both yes man is it because you want to help others yes exactly so I get a lot of people come to me that will gift me thirty three percent of the business now that business could be worth two million and they're gifting it to me so I kind of go okay but then what I don't then realise is obviously generally speaking when someone does look to gift you something they do want something in return and normally it's time and I can't give lots of time so there's times where I need to be okay Carle there's an opportunity there you go and analyse it because I've got ten other opportunities here as well and Carle be like that's a really good idea that's a really good idea that's a really good idea and and yes we are both yes and yes there's times that I do want to help people but I think it's it's a weakness of mine that I say yes to try and elevate others but I've got two amazing kids in yes two shut up look look at them yeah it's tactical s your side oh small improvements could be made let's just say that like I'd always says you'd hire a fracking builder to build a house but like sometimes I remember it from Birmingham a moment I remember a snapshot exactly I am the worst in the room there was four hundred people in the room and I would guarantee I'm the worst I don't even think I've been to every I know to log into my register and buy them so we actually became registered and the first thing he says to us is uh Carle can you do an S so me team know how to move these domains or but oh my God and then the third point he pins his toenails I remember that yeah he says like like in a proud way too when I see that actually he tries to say oh well some some amazing footballer called Christian I believe it's a fake story he just leaves his inner person it's it's just the hidden hidden side of the James you know but in all fairness obviously a flaws kind of complement each other so I know one of my so James one of his assets is one of my downfalls I I am very risk averse that like ask my partner Carole I'm very risk averse James is a bit more of a gambler than I am and then because of that it's kind of like it's sort of a again meshes together like a really good partnership should you say the sentence that starts with the flaws the flaws complete each other or something the flaws are strong compliments compliment I believe it should be another quote yeah here too it's a real nice summary too okay what would you change um I change yours I'd want him to say no more because that's a that's a common trait of man and I didn't realise how much how much of a yes man he was um not top be in this now that's cuz I've gotten none I I'd like to change it the other way around and I'd like to say that instead of the flaws of what he has he's got some absolutely he's close to his family he's close to he's got a lot of friends around him which I think is very important cuz then from growing up there's a lot of people that are sticking around him and like like what he has to do um he actually I don't like saying flaws about anyone because we've all got flaws so actually he knows his own internal flaws and he works on his own internal flaws so and I don't want to put that out to the universe of what his flaws are I'd soonly say that as a business partner he an amazing business partner we work really really well together and we help each other we all have that we all have days where things could be down you could have a manual action penalty and he's there Jery come and drive down let's go and let's go to the gym let's go and do a plunge pool I'm mean for you to support you so but SEO yeah I I was to think about that because this is this is what I really enjoy talking about not like all the SEO this update that update this update enough okay there is there are like two updates every day it's mad how emotionally driven SEO is in a data science is data science is numbers and crunching yet somehow emotions get involved it's true when it comes to the changing mind I would decrease your fed percentage a little bit you might need that I can't cut this SEO out I just I just I'm just on full blood that's why of alcohol I'm joking by the way I'm fitter than you to it's okay so I'd like to say something to the community that's going to be watching this Carle is absolutely changed the whole SEO industry for the better some people don't understand the methodology if you do not understand the methodology go and do the course at the end of the course if you don't like it and you disagree with it I'll refund you right go and do that course because it will well then actually do it again do it a second time because I was a third I've only done it one time I'm not doing it again no chance but the team the the people that you've elevated around you there's so many people that you don't understand how many likes that you've changed like the methodology there of what you've done is unbelievable for the community SEO bill slesinski would absolutely adore everything of what you've done you've taken what he was trying to do onto another level and it's a credit to what what you've done for the industry one minor huge flaw he's a cat guy maybe you know I mean he's a cat guy okay three things change okay tell three you can count ten if you want he's quite he's an you know he's an emotional guy he's like change one of the main questions he always comes to us with isn't it it's like how do I say how do I say no to someone that's exactly without hurting their feelings and he's saying it to too people who don't say no so I would say and this is I mean this in a nice way but you are way too nice you give too much time and this and time is everything that we are restricted on but you give too much time to people who are trying to argue against methodology you need to get your core your group your students to support you in every way possible with that in mind it's like for instance one of the if you don't mind us sharing this one of the points today was kind of along that avenue is you know feedback within the groups is affecting them and then that feedback is because what is being shared might not necessarily be correct yeah however it's not correct because Carle likes perfection yeah it's true or it's not he's not the correct man but you should not let that get to you as an individual shouldn't affect like you and I think you overly you've said that in Turkey if there's a disagreement normally settled with like antic of and you're quite direct I think you're all way trying to compliment not getting your into any argument he going a bit red yeah he's getting a bit getting a bit try to try to not like you need you need that Carle group around you to finish that course to support you in every way because the people that do not do the course are just going to try to say there's easier ways to do it you can go and get AI concept written by any AI tool do not try to improve the tool go and get yourself some battening and there you are you can write number one in Google it's like you're just trying to cut corners and you might have a knee a positive finding state for a while and then when you turn around and get hit you're just going to keep building up SEOs and keep getting hit go out there if you've not done the course do it if you have done it do it again if you ever hear any people in the groups make certain if he has if he has changed your life you probably if go out and in other groups if someone's mentioning in say what you've learned and if you can post any case studies publicly you might not want you because you might not want Google to know about them or you might not want other people to clone like the niche but go out there and do your best to try and support him because he has changed so many lives in the SEO community thank you so much when you actually share these things it also works in a different way too because it makes me happy to share all these things but then while sharing these things you also take risks too and usually people don't see that side that much so thank you so much for saying well this is it means a lot to me and I would like to actually continue to do this podcast as much as possible whenever we come together and I told the name it's two percent James is it good you approve yeah definitely two percent like it two percent James then so I really actually I really love the business thanks to these type of friendships and these type of memories because I know that even ten years later I will remember this moment and I will watch it with joy and it it's worth more than anything to be honest and two percent James the first episode let's say it's completed let do one in Turkey yeah let's get it let's get it done in Turkey at the conference get your bloody conference organised let's get it done okay if you have like half a million white PR yeah I will call them they can do you may should like sixty million or something zero yeah yeah he has some stuff we I hope he's a yes man okay everyone so I believe we can talk actually like maybe I don't know ten hours later ten hours more it makes me really happy to be able to actually have this moment and this connection and we will continue to have it maybe with extra people but I must tell this before the ending I really feel lucky to be able to meet with both of you usually maybe I can't at this since the maybe I can name the city it's okay since the Brighton I always feel like actually UK wasn't my zone but once I see you I feel like okay finally there is a manly men group who I can be connected to and I can feel it I belong to here it was a great feeling to be honest and it changed my idea and vision for UK as well so thank you for everything that you both also did for me and with the say two person James the first episode is completed let's go get massage James learned everything that he learned from Carle and James will be on the street without Carle.