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Real faith. Real life. Hosted by Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown of Sandals Church, The Debrief Podcast goes beyond Sunday conversations—diving into the questions, stories, and struggles that shape who we are. Thoughtful. Honest. Unfiltered.
Welcome to the debrief podcast with Matthew Stephen Brown. On this show, pastor Matt sits down with his friends to answer your questions about life, Jesus, and the bible. Let's get into the episode.
Donna Martin:Welcome back to the DB podcast. My name is Donna Martin with pastor Matthew Steven Brown. How are you?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:It is so good. I always feel like I'm in trouble when you used my full name.
Donna Martin:Oh, well, it's a nice full name, though. There's actually somebody here locally that's named Matt Brown that's running for city council. I just
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:saw that. Emailing me. It's not me.
Donna Martin:Yeah. Yeah. I was like, oh, Matt Brown's running for city council, so we have to say Matt and Stephen Brown. Yeah. Awesome.
Donna Martin:Well, thank you everyone for sending in your questions. These are fantastic, and we can't wait to hear just your heart, your perspective on these things. So let's jump right in. This is Andrea from Riverside, California. She said, would you allow your kids to go with friends to a church with different beliefs?
Donna Martin:I'm confident that my 12 year old has a solid grasp of their faith, but I also have a concern that it's still such an impressionable age. I wanna say no to my kids being invited to a friend's church, but I don't wanna make that choice out of fear.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. So I think it depends on the spectrum of the church that we're talking about. So I would say let's lump this into two groups. One is cults, so non Christian, and then one is Christian churches that are controversial, and so I'd love your feedback on the controversial part. So I would not allow my kid to go to a kingdom hall, and so the reason for that is, A, it's not a church, they don't call it a church, I mean, they would say they're a church, but they terrify people.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:End Times, Dragons, the Book of Revelation, you know, God hates you, he's gonna judge you, only 144,000 people make it into heaven. Right. It has all of these just crazy, crazy teachings and people really need to be delivered from that. I got to see a friend of mine whose daughter was baptized this weekend at Sandals and she's coming out of the JW faith and and I mean, it's just so so many harsh things. No no birthdays, you know, no family relations with anybody that's not JW, I mean, that's why I would I would not put my kid in that situation.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Mormonism, I would say falls into the same category. Mormons are much nicer in the way that they approach their belief system, it's very family oriented. I would say maybe on that if I felt comfortable that my kid really understood the differences, and I wouldn't want my kid going there and embarrassing them, you know, you believe in many gods, we believe in one God. You don't want it to turn into this controversial thing, so I probably would definitely know on the JW, know on Mormonism. Probably know on Mormonisms with very, very few exceptions.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So then let's get into controversial Christians. And so what I mean by this is these are Christians that churches that, things that I would consider open handed are closed handed. And so my son is going to a college where most of the professors are Calvinists, hardcore Calvinists. So we we have pastors at Seminole's Church that have Calvinist leanings, why are they allowed to be here? It's an open handed issue for them.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You know, they don't preach it, they're not proselytizing, they don't, you know, they Sorry. They don't get they don't get in the way of our our emphasis on evangelism here at Sandals Church. You know, they just have And there's some beautiful things about reformed theology, some things that I like, some things that are deeply concerning and we'll get that into that second. The second thing would be hyper charismatic, so pressuring your kid to speak in tongues, your church is not full gospel, you know, just really really almost there's two types of conversion. So at Sandals, we're trying to convert people to Christ.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Other churches are converting you to their theology. Mhmm. And so if it's a Calvinist church that's like you have to be reformed, you know, you have to believe that before, you know, God created heaven and earth, he preordained and pre decided who went to heaven and hell because I would say, then what are we doing?
Donna Martin:Right, right,
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:right, If it's all decided, I mean, I'm gonna go do something else with my life, I don't believe that it's decided. I believe that choices really matter and the gospel is an open invitation to all. Now, there are Calvinists, they're called compatibilists, and so they believe that somehow God's sovereignty and our free will are compatible and they don't understand that. You know, that's probably the type of Calvinist that works for us at Sandals. I would just say, look, it either is a real choice or God has chosen, and I've decided and am convinced that the Bible teaches people have a real choice, that the gospel is a real offer of salvation.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So when Romans ten:nine says, whoever confesses with their mouth and believes with their heart shall be saved, that is a real verse. When Timothy when Paul says to Timothy that God wants everyone to be saved, that is a real And the Holy Spirit knew what words he was telling Paul to say in both instances. Yeah. And so that doesn't mean that there aren't passages where, okay, this this feels like maybe God's already decided everything, So that's why there are Calvinists because that they've emphasized those passages. I would just say, you know, I don't want my kids to go to churches that convert Christians to their way of thinking.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Those things really bother me because those types of churches really don't reach the lost, which is the great commission, they reach other Christians and they don't do the hard work of evangelism reaching people who are far from God, reaching people who will never step foot into a church because they're so lost, and that's sandals. Sandals is we're we're going to the highway and the hedges. We're going out to find the lame, the cripple, and the blind. Right? That's the Luke the Lukeian gospel.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You know, the self righteous people wouldn't come. Go go go out and find them. That's been the the mission vision of Sandals Also, and and you've probably experienced this, the hyper charismatic. Mhmm. You're not born again.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:If you haven't received the second baptism and you don't speak in tongues. And what I would just say is some people do, like you, and that's great, others like myself who've asked for that gift, I've not received it for whatever reason. The Holy Spirit gives gifts to whom He chooses, think it's a beautiful thing, I appreciate how vibrant and important that is to your faith, and I praise that. We don't push that on people. And the other thing is the whole name it and claim it, your mom died because you didn't believe, like that stuff really bothers me.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:That's what my book is all about is, look, we know what God can do and that's where our faith lies. We do not know what he will do. We just don't know. Sometimes things just don't make sense, Donna. Good people Yes.
Donna Martin:Yeah,
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:absolutely. Godly people die. The Lord Jesus died, and so, like, there's just some things where you scratch your head and you just have to say, okay, God, I don't understand this. And so I would be very very careful and you know, with my son who's, was not 12, and so in this instance, your child's 12, he was 18, I prepared him and talked to him, said, look, they're going to teach you this and they're good people, they're godly people, but here's why I disagree. And you know, because ultimately, I mean, you could go hyper Calvinistic where he thinks I'm apostate because I believe that we choose salvation and for some people that's considered a work and I'm like, look man, repentance is not a work, saying I'm sorry is not a work, it doesn't earn you salvation, it's promised salvation because God has sovereignly chosen to promise it.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So Ethan and I really had to work through that because professors are powerful. Yeah, And so they hold a lot of clout and when you're learning the Bible, I remember when Calvinism was presented to me, I was like, why have I never learned this? And it's because most Christians don't believe that, but when you get a Calvinist professor, they do believe that and their arguments are very persuasive and if you haven't been able to work through things, like for me, I remember sitting in class with my Calvin's professor and I said, if everything is pre decided, why is God so mad in the end? Don't understand wrath. Wrath makes no sense to me if you had no choice in the matter.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:It just doesn't make any sense. Now it does make sense to me if God was gracious and gave you opportunity after opportunity after opportunity, and there were real opportunities for you to respond. And I watch John MacArthur on TikTok, and I love John MacArthur, there's a lot of things I love about him, there's things I disagree. Jesus turned real water into real wine, it wasn't fake wine, it wasn't fake juice, or it wasn't just grape juice, but you know, he does Q and A like we're doing at the end of his services, and this person says, what happens to those people in India, those people in Africa, those people in Mongolia who've never heard the gospel? They've never had an opportunity to receive Christ and without blinking an eye, here's what John MacArthur, a five point Calvinist says, they simply were not elect.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:God did not choose them before the foundation of the earth. That breaks my heart. Now, Christians, get off your butts and let's go to Mongolia, let's go to India, let's, it's why we spend so much money as a church sending missionaries, equipping churches, helping churches in countries where less than 1% are Christians. In some, it's it's zero. So that should break your heart about, okay, who is this God we're worshiping?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And to me, he's best personified in Jesus.
Donna Martin:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Who says come to me all who are weary Yeah. And I will give you rest. So So good. I just, I you gotta be very very careful with, you know, what you let your kids be exposed to, I think 12 is a little young Mhmm. And I think you need to explain why.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And I would say, when you're an adult, you get to decide, but my job as a parent is to prepare you in the best way possible. And so sandals is kinda right down the middle, you know, we're not reformed enough for many and we're not charismatic enough for others and I was actually at a winery this week, which is super fun because I don't drink anymore, so I just sit there, but you know, he grew up super charismatic, I mean like foursquare, charismatic. And then he was in this reformed Calvinist church for ten years, I was like, bro, you had two skis going in the opposite direction. And he was just saying, look, I love the church and he just said, God used both of those. Yeah, absolutely.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And he said, this is what he said, He said, and now we're at Sandals, and and we're right in the middle Absolutely. Which is where we're supposed to be. So you've experienced I the hyper would
Donna Martin:say the same thing. I mean, would say at 12 years old, that is very impressionable. If you didn't know, or if parents don't know, 11, 12 is where your the kid's brain starts to break back down. Yeah. So at two years old, the kid's brain breaks down so they can learn language and all of that.
Donna Martin:11 and 12 is the same thing, and it's like wet cement. Yeah. So whatever you write in the wet cement during 11 and 12, that sucker hardens and hardens and hardens and hardens until about 25, and then it's it's in there. So I would say 12 years old is very impressionable, and because they are starting to identify, and and they're moving away away from parents and more with their peers. Yeah.
Donna Martin:That's what's happening, and so I would be very careful with with that. And I agree. I grew up in you would call we were supposed to be nondenominational, but if you know anything about the black church, it's pretty much church of God in Christ.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah.
Donna Martin:And it has a lot of those traditions. I and so we would be more charismatic.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah.
Donna Martin:I grew up more charismatic. And then when I went to college, I went to an extremely charismatic school.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:The holy hands.
Donna Martin:And, I mean, we've got prayer hands in the thing, and you know what? God transformed my life at that school. But there were things that were taught by some of the leadership of that school that you kinda go, I don't know if god's not into that. And part of that is what you're talking about. It was that period in the late nineties, early two thousands, a prosperity gospel, a very name it and claim it.
Donna Martin:You don't if you didn't get healed, you didn't have enough faith. You know.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Which is a terrible thing to
Donna Martin:tell horrible thing to tell somebody. But there was this, you know, oral laid hands on a million people and had a significant healing ministry, but there was some things that were just a little wonky. When you can't explain why God didn't do something that you wanted him to do, then you try to kinda make your own theology about it. Yeah. And I think that's what you're saying is that, well, you can't just make up stuff just because it didn't happen the way you wanted it to happen because God said no.
Donna Martin:And so but God transformed my life in there. And then, you know, pretty much have come from much of a charismatic background, but being at Sandals, I don't feel like Sandals is not charismatic.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And I
Donna Martin:and I don't know how to describe that except to say, okay. Well, the gifts are are there. Yeah. I mean, they're open handed. I I think a lot of charismatics get stuck on one gift, which is the gift of tongues, but the gift of wisdom and prophecy, and all of those things are very much present here at Sandals.
Donna Martin:And we have seen those things, all of the gifts of the spirit present here at Sandals amongst the people and in leaders as well. And so, yeah, I I would just say I would be very careful because they're learning so much about their faith right now. They're they're moving away from you as a parent and with peers, and so for them to be super impressionable Yeah. I would be very
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. I think I would say it's okay to spend the night, but we go to church at our church. Yeah. That's the expression of our family's faith, and that's something that's very personal to us. Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And then you just tell your kid, hey, when you're 18
Donna Martin:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You will learn so much more. Then, you know, then maybe that's an opportunity for you to go and start church shopping, which I hate that term, but I just would be very, very careful because you just don't know. Like at our church, all of our Anybody that works with kids has been background checked. Yeah. I mean, we pay Sandals pays a lot of money to background check, fingerprint, make sure that your kids are safe.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And unfortunately, I can tell you, because Sandals has partnered with a lot of our campuses, we're preexisting churches, and they did not do that. Mhmm. And when we I don't like using the word took over, but when we took over, when we embraced, thank you When we embraced them into the bosom of that which is sandals, there were people working with kids that we had to say, you are no longer working with kids. And there's a reason. Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:A legal reason why, and it's just I think, you know, mom and pop churches tend to, you know, be a little naive when it comes to people, and at a megachurch, we just say, okay, we don't know you and where you've come from and what you did. So we're gonna at least do our best to make sure nothing in the past has happened. And we train all of our leaders how to handle kids, conversations about suicide, depression. I mean, you name it. Our our our people that are working with kids are getting training to connect with them.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And I don't know that that's happening at other churches, so that's not even a theological thing. Right. But we all need to be very, very careful who is alone with our kids. Absolutely. That's something that we need to be guarded against.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And I hate saying that,
Donna Martin:you have to say that.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. So
Donna Martin:There's weird there's weird people out here in these streets.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And they go to church. And they go to church.
Donna Martin:So Somehow they find themselves
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah.
Donna Martin:Right where they're to be.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:That's right.
Donna Martin:Alright. Thank you so much, Andrea, for your question. That was great. Thank you. Okay.
Donna Martin:This is Yaya from Menifee, California. What is the purpose of anointing oil and is it important in everyday life?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Wow. Yaya, I love your name. Yeah. I'd love to hear how you got that name, that's great. Yeah, so this sounds like a real basic question and I think sometimes as Christians, we just assume and so we never really, you know, pour into this, but first and foremost, anointing with oil is a cultural thing.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So 2,000 ago, it was it was used by multiple cultures, not just Jewish cultures, Middle Eastern cultures and it was a symbol of hospitality, it was a symbol of making something special. And so biblically, what is symbol of oil? So let's start with this whole idea that it makes something set apart and different. Did you watch The Crown? No.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Uh-uh. So The Crown series, there's two sisters and so this is the series about famous Queen of England, she just died recently, I think she lived to be over 100 years old. But her father died after World War II of lung cancer and the doctors encouraged him to smoke, that was my favorite part of the show to help his lungs. You just think about how medicine's changed.
Donna Martin:Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:But there's this moment where the sisters are playing and they have a very unique relationship and then the one sister is anointed with oil and becomes the queen of England. And the mom kneels and the sister runs to hug her and the mom stops the sister. She is no longer your sister, she is your queen. Wow. And the younger sister is like, like you can just see like what just happened?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so, in the Bible, the same thing happens with King Saul and King David. King Saul is just an ordinary guy from a young, a small tribe of Benjamin, David is from, you know, from Jesse, the tribe of Judah, and you know, he's the youngest of the youngest, just a shepherd boy, and there's anointing that takes place, and they are set apart. Now, here's what a lot of Christians miss, is the oil represents the Holy Spirit. And so it's the Holy Spirit that makes things set apart. So how in the Bible are things set apart?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Kings are set apart, priests are set apart, but things are set apart, so things that are used in the temple. It's no longer an ordinary fork, it's no longer an ordinary bowl, it's no longer ordinary bread, it's no longer an ordinary candle. You know, you think of the menorah, right? It's just several candles tied together, but when it's anointed and placed in the temple, it is set apart for God. And why is that important for us as Christians?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And this is really, really important. Like we I talked about why we take the Lord's Supper every week. Where is the oil often missed in New Testament Christianity? It's the blood of Jesus. We are anointed with his blood, it covers our sin and cleanses us from all unrighteousness, and so it's this beautiful symbol of I am now, and I'm gonna use the word magically, not because I believe in magic, but I want it to to really present I reality of what am now magically different.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I have been declared through God's power to be different in the same way, you know, if I, in the Old Testament, if I touched this with oil and I said this is now God's mug Mhmm. Okay, it doesn't look all that different and a lot of Christians don't look all that different, but because of the oil and the blessing, it's now God's mug and it is set apart for something, you know, to be used only of Him, and that's as us as Christians, we are set apart. I was having this conversation with my son, you know, he was struggling with some typical 21 year old boy stuff, and I just said, look, you're not doing anything that any normal 21 year old wouldn't do. Yeah. I'm just asking you to ask yourself if you're chosen.
Donna Martin:Mhmm. That's
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:good. If you're set apart. Mhmm. If you're called to be holy. I said, because as a young man, you have to decide, are you like everyone else?
Donna Martin:Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Or have you been set apart by God? Mhmm. And I said, I love you either way, but the choice is yours. And so so the Holy Spirit's the blood of Jesus, the Holy Spirit is also, we just talked about the spiritual gifts and the gifts of tongues, it's the Holy Spirit coming upon you. That's In the same way that when Jesus is baptized, it says the Holy Spirit descended upon him like a dove.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Mhmm. So God uses symbolism in the Bible to communicate something. So what I would say is the Holy Spirit, and we see this specifically when David is anointed, it says the Spirit of God strengthened him immediately after being anointed with oil. Yes. And so there was this empowering.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So it's this beautiful thing. Here's something that we miss though, Donna. Oil in the time of Jesus was hospitality. Mhmm. So think about Jesus comes into the Pharisee's house and the woman anoints his feet with tears and he says, you have not anointed my head with oil.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Mhmm. And so it's this embrace of you're not my family, but you are welcome and I celebrate you being here and we see this in Psalms that oil announces the celebration of joy and thanksgiving to God. And so it's this beautiful beautiful thing. And then in James Yeah. Chapter five, it represents healing.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Mhmm. And so the oil itself is not healing. What it's saying is, God, we need you to do something that we cannot do.
Donna Martin:Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so the oil represents not me. Mhmm. You know, I'm gonna anoint Donna with oil. Let's say you were sick or, you know, needed healing, and so the oil is, Lord, this is not of me. This is of you, and I'm asking you to heal Donna in your name.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And again, the oil is the power of the spirit. Yeah. How was God raised from the dead? Through the power of the spirit. The Holy Spirit empowers us, and so the Greek word oftentimes used to communicate this idea is dunamis.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:It's where we get our English word dynamite. Mhmm. Like it's power. And so it represents the healing power of God and we're saying, God, we need you to do something special here. And so we do that at Sandals Church when we have a healing service, we use oil.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:It's something that, you know, I think is really really important and it's something that we need to use. But again, it's an act of faith. Mean, the oil not holy or whatever, it's just saying, Lord, use this in a powerful way. And olive oil is a symbol of wealth in Bible, a symbol of healing and a symbol of nutrition. I mean, we're finding out now, guess what, drink a teaspoon of olive oil before you go to bed at night and it's really good for your body.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:It is healing. And so, it's amazing. Some people are like, yuck, well, you
Donna Martin:wanna live? But we need it, yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:We wanna be healthy, and so when we had John Bevere out here, he would literally drink two tablespoons of olive oil before bed at night. And so it had to be extra virgin olive oil because John is peculiar about his
Donna Martin:olive oil. And
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:if you're listening, John, I love you. But I just did research after he left and I realized, oh, wow. We, you know, you think of oil and fats as being bad for your body, but our body are made up of oils and fats and they're actually lipids are what holds everything together. Yeah. And olive oil is a great way to do that.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so it's a beautiful, wonderful thing, so
Donna Martin:That was good.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I would encourage you to do that and you know, you know, it's not something that we do all the time because cultures change, you gotta remember. And that's where churches get weird, it's like, okay, let's recreate the culture of Judaism in the first century. And it's like, man, if you go to Israel, first century Judaism isn't there because it's, you know, 2,000 later. And so how do we take this old book and make sure that we're obedient to it in modern ways? So great great question.
Donna Martin:Thank you so much. That was great. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you.
Donna Martin:That was great. Thank you. Yeah. That was good. Okay.
Donna Martin:This is Autumn from Highland, California. Hello, pastor Matt and Donna. First, a little sidetracking, but I wanna say I love Donna as your host.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Thanks, Adam. I love Donna too.
Donna Martin:I first saw her two and a half years ago when she gave a message for Cultivate, and I really enjoyed her knowledge and encouragement. Pastor Matt, I don't think you and your wife get enough thanks for all you do and sacrifice for this church. It's where I came and found Jesus. Praise God.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yes.
Donna Martin:And I appreciate your authenticity and honesty in this fake and broken were world. I appreciate your realness. That was so sweet,
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Audie. Yeah. Thank you.
Donna Martin:My question, what does a day of rest mean for us in this day and age? More specifically, what would resting look like for a stay at home mom whose work still continues on Sunday? I wrestle I wrestle with resting after church, and I wanna make sure I'm honoring God with the rest of my day. It's a good question.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. Great question, and thank you for what you do and the work that you do in the home. Mhmm. And so I think that this needs to start with a conversation with you and your husband to talk about what this looks like. So I would say it starts with church on Sundays.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So a day of rest always starts with worship. Mhmm. And it's not you going to the beach, you know, putting in your iPad and checking out. It's actually checking in with the Lord. So six days, you do what you want, seven days for the Lord and that day is holy, listen to me, to him.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So just like olive oil makes you set apart for him, the Sabbath
Donna Martin:Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Either Saturday or Sunday, whatever day you choose to worship is set apart to him and is holy. So I I would talk with your husband. I'm assuming they have a healthy relationship. Here's what both Jews and Christians have decided that falls within rest. And so if you're a husband, let your wife listen to this podcast.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So worship and sexual intimacy have been encouraged in both Judaism and Christianity on the Sabbath. Ain't that crazy?
Donna Martin:And that's it, no That's good.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah, this is gonna be your husband's favorite podcast. And that's exactly right, no laundry, no yard work. Those things need to be done on Saturday and you say, well I have so much work to do, you need to get a smaller house. Obedience to God is more important than the size And of your so, you just need to do that. There's nothing wrong with condo living.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I'm telling you, Tammy and I have a condo, it is fantastic. I don't have to worry about all of those things. We are able to exist and go to a park and enjoy somebody else, you know, fixing the sprinklers and all of these things that we think we have
Donna Martin:to have. Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Many people in the world, you know, they don't have a garage. Yeah. Like, that's just these concepts of what we think. So I'm assuming that you have a healthy relationship with your husband. Sex is not something that is mandated if the relationship is not whole and healthy, it's something that needs to be enjoyed between the husband and the wife as long as things are okay.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You know, but you know, it's just such an important thing. I remember when I was a kid, we'd go to church and then my parents would have nap time and I'm like, what the heck? Well, they were probably making love, which is So let me encourage you to encourage nap time. I would sit the kids down on a Saturday. No, I would encourage the kids to sit down on a Saturday and say, hey, mom's job is to take care of you.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So when I'm taking a day off, I need you to take care of me. Here's what I need you to do. So I need you to be in your room quietly, playing with something and I would say no video games and no screen time. Mhmm. So man, if you go to Israel with me on on Sabbath days, they have all these really cool games that the kids play, it's really interesting, on on the day of Sabbath in Israel, there's no TV, there's none of that, you sit around the table and you discuss and talk about things.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:It's part of the reason Jews are so smart in Israel, because they're actually, think about kids, they're engaging with adults, they're asking questions, they're learning, they're not off by themselves and they often discuss what the rabbi taught, you know, so what a great idea. What Jews do is they prepare all of the food the day before.
Donna Martin:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So, you know, if your budget doesn't allow you to go through drive thru In N Out Burger, can't you go to Chick fil A because they honor the Sabbath, right? And good for them, I mean, look, they've proven you can work six days a week and make a ton of money, so I don't wanna hear about, you know, you gotta work seven days a week. So, but I am thankful In N Out's open on Sundays, because sometimes I want In So I would just say, especially as a working mom, now, if that's the only day you can cook Mhmm. And it's restful for you to provide a meal for your family, then I would do it. In your instance, let's do the opposite, let's take rest.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So I would say quiet time, kids in the room, and then I would reward them and say at sundown, that's when Sabbath is over, we're gonna have dinner together, we're gonna eat some ice cream, so I would celebrate on Sunday, so we don't fast on the Lord's day. I would celebrate, we're gonna have ice cream, we're gonna sit down and watch a family movie that you pick if you're good in your rooms.
Donna Martin:Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:If you're not, you know, we're not doing that. And so let it be something the kids really look forward to and reward them with some screen time in that time, you know, have a family movie and then talk about it or play a game. You know, my favorite memories as a kid were playing games with my parents, you know, I love that. We play games with our kids all the time, we just, we're watching a video, we played Settlers of Catan and my youngest son losing his mind because he was losing. But games teach kids how to lose.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Games teach kids how to win. So I would talk about that and then I would just have a conversation with your husband, what is restful for you? Mhmm. What do you need to recharge? And I'm guessing you're a high one on the Enneagram and you have a hard time stopping.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And I have a hard time stopping and slowing down. I'm more obedient to the Lord when I'm working than I am when I'm resting, I just So what does that look like? And I've learned for me, if I don't, my Sabbath is on Fridays, I like to get up in the morning, kiss my wife, we work out at the gym, and I like to go to the beach and surf, I need to be in the water, be in the waves, or if it's winter, I like to go to the snow and ski. Now I'm not always gonna be able to do those things, because Right. As you age, you know, you tap out of those events, but if I don't have refreshment time, I'm just not right, and for me, rest is when I'm not thinking about work.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So when I'm in the water, I'm not thinking about work. When I'm skiing or snowboarding, I'm not thinking about work. You need to have something that helps you disconnect, and it can just be an hour. I don't need the whole day to myself. I don't think that I'm a married man.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I don't think that's right. And then I'm gonna come home and we're gonna do whatever we need to do with Tammy or whatever, you know, something that that she's that she's laid out. But I would just say have a conversation. Sundays are a great day to take a nap Mhmm. And give yourself permission.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So go to church, you know, figure out something that's super easy for food, put the kids in the room, make love to your husband, take a nap. Mhmm. Go out on your back patio if you have one. Have a glass of wine. If you don't drink like me, I love iced tea.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I love to have iced tea or lemonade, know. Have something that relaxes you, hold hands, talk about life, talk about what God spoke to you at church that day Mhmm. And and then talk about, you know, the week to come, what are your plans, connect with each other and just kinda reconnect. And so so much of marriage is face to face time and when you get the kids, you know, it's all about the kids and that's how marriages fall apart. You gotta reconnect, you gotta connect with each other.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And you just tell your kids, mom and dad need this. This is important for us to love you. And I didn't get it when I was a kid, but you know what? Kids don't have to get everything. They don't have to understand everything and I got through it and I learned how to play.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You know, had action figures, Star Wars figures, I had magazines that I could read through, there was stuff that I could do and we knew, you better not come out of that room for an hour or two and it felt like an eternity as a kid, but it was so good and healthy Yeah. For And so I would just say, what is restful for you, you know, and then really talk about that with your husband. But you gotta you gotta be more disciplined on Saturdays, you just do. Mhmm. So like, if you come have you been to Israel?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:No. So when you and your husband come with me to Israel, and let's pray for peace there. Yes. You you'll see, on Fridays they are prepping and prepping. They worked twice as hard on Fridays, and so at the hotel, all your eggs were boiled the day before, all your baked everything baked was the day before, and you know, the coffee was made the day before, the food's not as good, but you you get used to it.
Donna Martin:Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And it's it's a trippy situation. I mean, you've there, It's it's a trip. So, you know, a lot of like potluck items that can be saved is what you eat on Sunday, cold cuts. Yeah. So but, yeah, it's great.
Donna Martin:Yeah. That's good. Yeah. I mean, when you have littles, it is hard to feel like you can take a day off because they're just kind of doing a lot. I mean, my kids, same thing on Sundays.
Donna Martin:They're not they don't do any electronics until sundown, then they're able to check-in with their friends or whatever. But, yeah, it's about prepping the day before. I think for moms, especially, like, I know for me on Sunday night, I feel like I have to prepare for Monday. Yeah. Like, make sure that there's groceries for, you know, their lunch and all of those things.
Donna Martin:And so I've gotten really good at Instacart and having somebody bring my groceries to me and ordering something for the kids to eat and really trying to rest because if we don't have it I mean, turn into a crazy if I don't have at least one day off, and so it's important. I think that was really good. Great advice.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. So I'm praying for you, and I'm grateful for you, and thank you for your kind words, but again, you're not gonna be who you need to be unless you rest. It's just, I mean, God knows, right? And and that's really what it comes down to, is God knows. But have that conversation.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And parents, we don't just get to not be parents on this app. You have to Kick them out. Yeah. You have to know where your kids are, you know, you have to you have to take care of them, you don't just get to lock them in their room, you know, don't be this is not a cult. I'm saying for an hour or two, I would say probably ninety minutes is the max depending upon their age.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And if they're little, like, might be thirty minutes.
Donna Martin:Sure.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So but they can play and and just They
Donna Martin:can watch a movie. Yeah. You figure it out.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. You can
Donna Martin:figure it out. Awesome. Well, thank you for listening, everyone. If you like this pod podcast, please let us know by following, subscribing, and also sharing with someone. Also, leave us a comment.
Donna Martin:Let us know what you thought about our questions and answer time, and you can so show support by going to sandalschurch.com/support, and we will see you next time. Bye.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And cut.
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