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Welcome to The Foster Friendly Podcast. We’re bringing foster care closer to home by sharing stories from the front lines. We're talking with former foster youth, foster parents and others who are finding unique and powerful ways to dramatically improve the experiences and outcomes for kids in foster care.
The Foster Friendly podcast is brought to you by America’s Kids Belong, a nonprofit that helps kids in foster care find belonging in both family and community.
Brian Mavis (00:00.996)
Hello and welcome to the Foster Friendly Podcast. We are starting a new focus this month because we're doing a kickoff to the National Adoption Month. And so I have my great co-host today, Courtney and Travis with me, who are both adoptive parents. so Courtney and Travis, welcome. And would love our audience to hear about your guys's
Adoption story, what led your families to adopt?
Travis (00:35.411)
All right, we always let the lady go first, but okay, Travis, okay, there we go.
Brian Mavis (00:36.272)
Travis? Travis, uh-huh, yeah. Men before women. Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.
Travis (00:42.271)
There we go. Today we are. So the brief snapshot for us is like we were foster parents at a group home. And I would just explain it where over time, two of the boys in our care who were brothers, it just felt like there were some interesting things developing in terms of a much deeper feeling of a relationship. I don't know how else to put it.
knowing their case, knowing they were in care twice. looked like in their case, things were going to termination of parental rights from mom. And so that was something that made us just curious. I had to keep an eye on. And then there were just two moments. One was Dre playing baseball with our biological son Asher and the way he like brothered him. It's not really a word, but just came around him as like a brother. And then Jesse, my wife, one time got a note from
Jay on how much he loved her as a mom. And she's like, well, I'm not your mom. But he said, but well, I've lived with you. You felt like my mom. And those kinds of things just kind of triggered like, Hey, you know, maybe again, let's keep an on the case. And then we did start to pursue that just to, you know, get, in the adoption process. And the day that we did that, mom relinquished her rights, like literally that day. It was almost like a sign of like, wow. Okay. So yeah.
Brian Mavis (02:03.138)
Wow. So how old were the boys when you first met them?
Travis (02:07.187)
I wanna say like seven and nine?
Brian Mavis (02:09.55)
And then how old were they when you said, looks like we're on the way to adoption. And then how old were they when you adopted them?
Travis (02:17.633)
Yeah. So I think the process, mean, and this was an anomaly, hopefully it's got cleaned up in South Carolina, but I mean, it was like 18 months after that. mean, the whole thing that was with the right service. We're looking at two years later for each of them. So nine and 11. Yep.
Brian Mavis (02:31.778)
Mm-hmm. OK. I'm curious then, your son and daughter at that time, what was the age difference there with?
Travis (02:43.393)
it would have been something like, and, that's the other thing. I mean, we just did disrupt the birth order of that. You know, Joel was our oldest and at the time maybe was she seven? I want to say there's a, a two, two hour to Dre and then J higher. So seven and five, if I'm guessing on the,
Brian Mavis (02:51.312)
Mmm.
Brian Mavis (03:02.072)
Okay. All right. So they were all fairly close in age. Yeah. And then like you said, you changed the birth order, which unpack that a little bit. Why'd you bring that up? Why is that interesting?
Travis (03:06.561)
It's fairly close,
Travis (03:15.105)
hehehehe
Well, this is cool with this conversation around a lot of reasons, like people have fair objections or some myths and stuff like that. But I know like in Courtney can speak to this well, but like, it's definitely a thing. And some people it's a thing in their particular family that they don't want to mess the birth order up because they've heard and read all kinds of things of where family dynamics and sort of power struggles and stuff can ensue.
You know, and, and I think some of that's real. mean, we certainly saw the tension between Joel and Jay particularly, and, kind of being compassionate towards her sort of losing that spot, if you will. But at the same time, I think it can also be overblown. And I think that like, there's ways that you do work around it through that. And in some ways they're also the closest at times. So yeah.
Brian Mavis (03:48.944)
Mm.
Brian Mavis (03:59.664)
Mm-hmm.
Courtney (04:12.654)
Thank
Brian Mavis (04:13.668)
Yeah, yeah, interesting. Courtney, what about your story?
Courtney (04:19.467)
Yeah, I'll try to be really brief. My husband and I met, dealt with infertility and started looking into adoption before we had our biological kids and then we got pregnant. So we had three kids and then it was kind of like, three kids. We both come from families of three. Are we done? Are we having more? What are we doing? And just both really felt like God was leading us to grow our family through adoption. So we ended up adopting internationally.
Brian Mavis (04:21.04)
Okay.
Brian Mavis (04:36.58)
Mm-hmm.
Courtney (04:44.654)
a young little girl from Congo. was nine months when I brought her home. When we went there, our hearts were completely broken for older kids. then we changed, we were also in a concurrent adoption through Ethiopia, changed our request to older kids, got their referral within a month because we had opened our door to older kids. Even though our son at the time was six, so our oldest at the time was six, so we broke birth order as well. Brought our two boys home and then we just were, we were foster parents at the time.
Brian Mavis (04:57.52)
Hmm.
Courtney (05:13.326)
And we were broken for these older kids that we saw, these orphanages, and wanted to adopt older kids again. And then we got this little flyer in the mail, the heart killer of North Dakota. That's where we lived at the time. We saw this picture of our daughter. She was clearly Ethiopian, like looked Ethiopian and started looking into things and ended up adopting her through foster care, but she was originally from Ethiopia. And then, you know, thought we were done. We're like, we're done. We're not adopting again.
Brian Mavis (05:30.992)
Mm-hmm.
Brian Mavis (05:36.474)
Mm-hmm.
Courtney (05:40.526)
moved to Colorado, we got licensed in Colorado. We told our agency when we got licensed, are just fostering. We want to mentor birth parents. That's what we want to do. the very first case that came to our home led to adoption. then they were in our house seven days old and two years old when they first came to us. And then two years down the road, it goes to adoption. And it's like, would you guys like to adopt these two? I mean, we could have said no, but it's kind like, how can we say no? They've been with us for two years now. They're part of our family.
Brian Mavis (05:45.338)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
You
Travis (05:52.939)
Huh.
Courtney (06:10.476)
Yeah, we've done both the international side and the foster care side a few times.
Brian Mavis (06:14.446)
Wow, yeah, you guys have rich experiences there on adoption. And so I'm curious, going into this month and people are curious about adoption, intrigued by it, inspired by adoptive families. But what would you say is like the predominant myth of people who are looking in from the outside that they have about adoption?
Travis (06:45.013)
if you say predominant, would say expense. mean, and equating all adoption with international and private adoption, that can be very expensive. I mean, time and again, you will hear when we loop into foster care being part of the equation, foster care adoption, mean, the expense that people think would knock them out.
Brian Mavis (07:06.458)
Yeah, because international adoptions can't, I mean, I don't know what the going rate is today, but my guess is like $40,000. That's, So Courtney, what would you say is a myth that people have when they think about adoption?
Travis (07:12.865)
Mm-hmm.
Courtney (07:13.698)
Yep. Yep.
Courtney (07:21.898)
I would say the misconception that it's this easy peaches and roses type situation, even for us when we went into it, we felt like this is we're gonna grow our family, but we didn't know, we had no clue what it was gonna come with. And so the thought of it's just a beautiful thing, it's wonderful, awesome families, but not putting into reality the marriage of adoption, which we can get into later,
the grief that comes with, the trauma, the loss, all of these things and why it takes a lot more than just this family that's gonna love them and welcome them into their home.
Brian Mavis (08:01.648)
Is this true even for adopting really little ones, babies?
Courtney (08:06.19)
100%. Another myth.
Travis (08:06.913)
100%.
Brian Mavis (08:07.672)
What? Yeah, yeah. Okay, so, you know, since this is a national adoption month and we do have a focus on adopting through foster care, I do want to make sure we mentioned the other ones and you guys have already more than alluded to one of them at least. So there are three, let's say three main ways to adopt. So through foster care.
internationally, which we heard Courtney's story there. And then the other one is just through typically a domestic through a private agency, usually adopting a baby. But again, we focus on and we're grateful for all those ways and they all have some your unique advantages and challenges. I'm curious talking about advantages and challenges when
When there is adopting through foster care, Courtney, I've heard you say before that you think there's an ethical advantage through foster care. Unpack that a little bit.
Courtney (09:17.186)
Yeah, Charles mentioned the money, right? There's a reality that adopting internationally, even private domestic adoption, it costs a lot of money. And when you have money involved, there's more red tape, there's more unethical things happening. I've heard of kids being trafficked and abducted and adopted and there's just, that's reality. And so we don't have that when it's adoption through foster care, right? There's not the money involved. There's also not the loss of
Brian Mavis (09:21.026)
Okay.
Brian Mavis (09:35.204)
Mm-hmm.
Courtney (09:45.337)
typically of moving a child across the country or across countries, across the globe to a new language, to a new culture, to removing all those things. So there's loss, a lot of loss, but it's a different amount of loss when it's adoption through foster care. And the reality that foster families should go into foster care with a lens of
Brian Mavis (10:03.216)
Yeah.
Courtney (10:13.804)
Reunification is likely going to be the outcome and not going into it just with the lens of, I'm going to grow my family at whatever cost, at whatever length it needs to be.
Travis (10:16.928)
Mm-hmm.
Brian Mavis (10:23.852)
Okay, yeah, you're entering where I was wanting to think about next is there's a phrase in this world called foster to adopt and explain what foster to adopt, what the meaning or intention behind that phrase is and why we don't encourage people to enter into foster care with that idea in mind.
Courtney (10:47.406)
Yeah, you just kind of said it in the words, right? With the mindset of, am fostering with the goal to adopt. And I tell people all the time, if that is your main and primary goal, foster care is not the route for you. Because again, almost 50%, 45 % of kids that enter care are gonna exit care through reunification. So if we know that reunification is the primary goal and it's the typical outcome, and we see that...
27 % of kids who exit foster care, according to 2024 AFGAR's report, 27 % of them leave foster care through adoption. That tells you fewer than half, or fewer than a third of them are leaving through adoption. So if that's your primary goal, now we do have waiting children. We'll talk more about our Belong project. There are kids out there that are waiting right now, parents have already removed, their headlights have been removed, they're sitting there, they're waiting, they need an adoptive home.
Brian Mavis (11:19.237)
Mm-hmm.
Brian Mavis (11:26.426)
Yeah.
Thank
Courtney (11:43.331)
But when we're talking about somebody just entering this realm of thinking, like, I want to foster, I want to adopt. If they're going down the route of foster care, they need to know the goal is going to be reunification. It might lead towards adoption, but that should not be your primary goal. And so we don't want to call it foster to adopt. It's adoption through foster care or adoption out of foster care, but it's not the goal.
Brian Mavis (12:03.534)
Yeah, okay, that's great. And I guess, you sometimes we do assume a lot of knowledge that on our listeners part, and I do want to pause here for a second in just in broad strokes. When a child enters into foster care, they essentially all of them are start off down the track of reunification. During that process, either something is discovered in that child's history.
or the parents aren't doing what needs to happen, they don't want to be reunified, that essentially a quarter of the kids then take a different route towards being adopted. And so that's the world of foster care, kind of those two big categories with three fourths of them in one bucket and the other quarter
heading down this other way. and helping people think through, again, adoption that happens through foster care, there's other, I think, misconceptions. And so, what misconceptions would you say that people think it's true that this is the case and you would say, actually, that's false? So, list some off for us.
I'll let you each take some turns.
Travis (13:34.145)
Only you have to be married.
Brian Mavis (13:37.391)
Okay, so some people think, yep, I'm not married, so I can't do this. I can't foster, I can't adopt. And that's not the case. I I think all of us know single parents, male and female, moms and dads who are not married, who have chosen to foster and adopt kids. And we've interviewed more than one here on this podcast.
Travis (13:43.179)
Mm-hmm.
Courtney (14:01.774)
Mm-hmm. I will give the caveat though. I have had, I get the forms from AKB's website and I get probably at least one every few months of somebody asking the question, can I foster or adopt even though I'm married and my spouse doesn't want to? So no, you cannot adopt if you are married or have a partner that you're living with and one of you is on board and the other one isn't, they're going to say no to you. You have to both be on board. It has to be a joint effort. Can't be one or, yeah.
Travis (14:17.473)
Yeah.
Travis (14:29.067)
Good caveat. Good clear that up.
Brian Mavis (14:29.994)
Yeah, yeah, thanks for the question. Okay, what's another thing that people think is true but isn't?
Courtney (14:40.238)
You have to own a house. Thinking that you have to be completely established, own a house, you can't rent, can't live in a townhouse or apartment, which is false. You can live in an apartment. You can live in a townhouse. You can be renting. can be even living with other people. Like if you have people living in the basement or something, they'll have to go through background checks and fingerprints and those things if they live with you and they're over 18. But there are all sorts of realms of living that will be allowed. Yeah.
Brian Mavis (14:52.974)
Okay?
Brian Mavis (15:07.044)
beyond home ownership. Okay, great. Give me another one.
Travis (15:13.553)
You must have not. OK, I messed that up. You can only adopt a child in your area.
Courtney (15:18.742)
it.
Brian Mavis (15:19.76)
You
Brian Mavis (15:25.542)
okay, so if you're living in a certain state, in a certain part of the state, then you think that my, the kids that are adoptable have to live where I live. And so that's not the case. Now there might be some, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's true that you can adopt beyond where you live, but give me the caveat there.
Travis (15:43.339)
But a caveat, that's a caveat too, right? Kory is like, don't know, me... Technically.
Courtney (15:45.582)
Yeah.
Brian Mavis (15:55.29)
Travis.
Travis (15:57.183)
Yeah, I mean, I think that, and we would all agree with this, that while that's true, but child welfare is always going to prioritize, as they should, who's nearest by, for all the reasons. I there's so many reasons around not being uprooted into another state or even across a state. they're going to really, we don't have the exact prioritizing stack. mean, of course they have all the different things that go into the pot.
stew to mix up there but that's a big one of like proximity for sure.
Courtney (16:27.406)
Yep.
Brian Mavis (16:29.402)
Yeah. Another one that you guys would show that is not the case is that you can't have your own biological children if you're going to adopt. you two are examples of that not being the case. You both had your kids before adopting. And then another one that is, I think just really surprises people is the age.
that kids are only adoptable if they're under 18 years old. And I think we all know some young adults who said they wanted to be adopted who were in their 20s.
Travis (17:04.705)
Yeah.
Courtney (17:14.286)
Yeah, we did a webinar with a young lady who was adopted in her twenties and just listening to her speak to the why and like that, hearing her say, like we know, like we can say from AKB standpoint as a parent standpoint of we believe that children belong in families, people belong in families, but then hearing it through her lens of being like, I was an adult and I still wanted that sense of belonging in a family as a 26 year old. It's like, wow.
Travis (17:43.125)
Yeah.
Courtney (17:43.958)
You know, it is something we all want.
Brian Mavis (17:44.272)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Travis (17:47.905)
That's a good point.
Brian Mavis (17:49.285)
Yeah. So yeah, so people are surprised by adopt, you know, all these things of adoption that they think might preclude them from adopting. So be sure to really look into what the truth is so that you don't count yourself out before you even start, because some of those things you might be assuming aren't the case. So Courtney, earlier you mentioned this phrase,
And I would love for you to explain what you mean. So you said the phrase was the marriage of adoption. What is that? And unpack that for us.
Courtney (18:31.886)
This is one thing that I have a love-hate relationship with in adoption through foster care. So typically in most states, a child has to be in your home for six months as a foster placement before you can legally adopt them. And the purpose of that is they want you to get to know the kid. They want the child, the youth to get to know you. They want to make sure it's a good match. And part of that I love, right? Like I see why, because I, again, thinking of international adoption, I know so many.
Brian Mavis (18:48.793)
Mm-hmm.
Courtney (18:58.796)
so many personal stories of international adoptees where the adoption failed because there were a lot of unknowns when they walked into it. But there are unknowns with biological kids. There are unknowns with kids that you adopt through foster care that have been in your home for six months. And so I always challenge people, you really need to see an adoption as a forever thing, the marriage of an adoption. Keep that marriage of the adoption. See it as something that's meant to be forever. That doesn't mean that it might lead to
Brian Mavis (19:08.033)
you
Brian Mavis (19:13.541)
Mm-hmm.
Courtney (19:28.426)
See, again, I know a lot of families where it's led to really hard things where they needed to use outside help. They needed to have the kid go to a therapeutic treatment place for a while. I'm not saying those things aren't needed at times, but to see the families that have done that and still go visit them and love them and write them letters and still say like, we're still your family, even though that this is the outcome right now versus putting them in foster care, putting them back up for adoption.
Brian Mavis (19:40.996)
Mm-hmm.
Travis (19:44.523)
Right.
Travis (19:47.808)
Mm-hmm.
Courtney (19:54.891)
We have a child, one of our own children that we've adopted. We adopted her after she was already adopted once. And I can tell you, the pain she has gone through, the things that she still goes through as an adult, because of that one simple thing, even though she had a lot of trauma before that, a lot of trauma, that alone is like the thing that is just still to her is like, I am so angry over it. It hurts me so much. And so we do, we need families that are willing to say, this is going to be hard. There might be what if, and then thinking about all those what ifs and say,
Brian Mavis (19:59.942)
Mm-hmm.
Travis (20:09.697)
Yeah.
Courtney (20:24.48)
Are you still willing to say yes, even if? And if the answer is no, then it's kind of like, well, then maybe this might not be the route for you.
Travis (20:30.529)
That's great advice.
Brian Mavis (20:32.11)
Yeah, yeah, that's good. Yeah, you mentioned, and I think I did expand on it bit, that there's kind of two broad categories of kids in foster care, those who are down the path of reunification and those who, for one reason or the other, it's been decided usually, always legally through the courts, that the path
isn't reunification, but is adoption, a new permanency plan. And we at AKB have a program, especially and explicitly for those kids. And so if there's about 400,000 kids in foster care, about 100,000 of them are in this category of legally free to be adopted. And that's...
really how kind of AKB started. We started as Adopt Colorado Kids and the program we have is called the I Belong Project. And it began with photographs, but shortly after photographing the kids, we started videoing these kids. And that started because at one photo shoot, we had a sibling group of three. The boy was the oldest and he was about 10. And then he had two younger sisters.
And they had not seen each other in about six months. The girls were together and the boy was in a different home. And so they saw each other, they ran towards each other, lots of crying and just hugging and then them spending the day together. And then when that photo shoot was done, the boy coming up to my wife and saying, how long will it take for you to find a family for us?
She just thought, gosh, if people could just not just see these kids, but hear them, hear what they have to say, that it could be a game changer. And it was especially for the kids who were older, who could verbalize their desire for a family. So since we started, we've now had videoed over 4,000 kids and we have...
Travis (22:54.389)
Mom.
Brian Mavis (22:57.314)
nearly a 60 % successful placement rate. the thing that I like to explain to people is our innovation wasn't videos, wasn't technology. It was trust. We worked so hard to do this in a way that really honored the kids, gave them dignity, protected them while we're
trying to promote them, that's why we've been able to do this for 4,000 kids. And we've never said no to a kid. we go into a place and we're always giving the kids who have been waiting the longest. And so we've done, I said, every kind of kid you can think of. so we have an incredible team of people who
Travis (23:43.617)
Hmm.
Brian Mavis (23:56.721)
staff and volunteers who've done this and it's just been powerful. And so if you are interested in adopting and knowing about this specific group, there are these kids right now who are waiting and wanting a forever family. So going off of that, if someone actually hears this and goes to our website and then
watches these videos and then says, I want to inquire about this specific youth or sibling set. What happens there? Courtney, could you say like some, know, they click a button and say, I'd like to know more. What can they expect?
Courtney (24:49.368)
Yeah, the biggest thing I want people to understand is that we are not an agency of most people think we are. So they see, you've got this I belong project. So you're an agency and you guys get to choose. Again, I get these emails all the time of people just misunderstanding that we are not an agency. So we help these agencies by recruit, right? Recruiting homes, right? By giving them a voice, by putting them up there. But then when they click inquire, that goes into the system of that state or that county or.
Brian Mavis (24:53.881)
Right. Right.
Brian Mavis (25:01.038)
Yes, yes.
Travis (25:02.207)
Thanks
Brian Mavis (25:08.623)
Mm-hmm.
Courtney (25:18.51)
whatever agency that child is linked to. So we do not have the say in that. don't have, and we don't get any say. We don't get to say, oh, this person inquired and I like this person or I know this person. That has nothing that AKB does or has any say in too. So you do that. They will read your inquiry and then they're gonna look at it. Sometimes they respond, sometimes they don't. So understanding that they don't respond, it might be because something's going on with them in the case. It might be because they're too busy. But typically it's because something's either going on or they're already,
Brian Mavis (25:28.282)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Courtney (25:47.875)
walking down the path with a potential adoptive family, again, knowing that they're going to look, some of them will say, we are only looking for adoptive homes within our area. And so if you don't live in the area and they've already put that out there, they're not going to respond to you because they're only looking for homes within their area. And that's common if they have siblings or a grandparent that they're really close to, something like that where they're like, this kid really needs to stay in their area. Or they really want to. Like there's teenagers like, no, I will only stay in my area. And they get a voice in that too. So.
Brian Mavis (26:05.709)
Ahem.
Brian Mavis (26:14.158)
Right. Yeah. Yeah.
Travis (26:14.826)
Yes.
Courtney (26:16.844)
Yeah, just knowing that it takes time. If you don't hear back, you could fill out the form again if you want to, but understand there's a long process. There's a lot of people involved. They're going to redo those things and really make the best decision for that child. And we need to understand that. We need to be okay with the fact that that might not, you know, my heartstrings were just tugged to this one kid that watched this video and I just feel something, but other people might as well and it might not be you that they select and there's a reason for it.
Brian Mavis (26:42.948)
Yeah, and we know families that have said, I'm interested in this child, and that's exactly the child that they ended up getting connected with. But we've heard lots of stories of some people saying, inquiring about a youth, and that gets them going. And it's not that youth that they end up having to be a part of their family, but they're now...
Travis (27:05.288)
Yeah.
Brian Mavis (27:12.304)
their hearts have expanded and they've said, we're open to now kids who need families. so be prepared for that, you that you lean into this and it's not a straight line journey and that you might, God might use one youth to get
Travis (27:33.003)
Mm-hmm.
Courtney (27:33.166)
Mm-hmm.
Brian Mavis (27:39.493)
to open you up and then, place you with another one. So, I think a lot of people are familiar that foster families get resources and support. Sometimes though, when you move from fostering a youth to adopting a youth, some of those resources and supports stop. Some continue, but...
Travis (27:42.849)
So.
Brian Mavis (28:07.488)
What can families expect when it comes to resources and support as an adoptive family? What's available to them?
Courtney (28:17.624)
Travis, got any things that have been helpful?
Travis (28:18.369)
I mean, all I can say is in our state, mean, the adoption subsidy that continues and actually that continues for us up into even 21, I believe. that's, and after graduation, we have to sort of do some renewal type paperwork to show that they're in college or having a job. It's amazing kind of how that support can kind of continue longer than you might think too.
Brian Mavis (28:48.538)
Yeah, what about health-wise? know, kids and health expenses can be very expensive. What resources are available on that?
Courtney (29:00.11)
Typically, a child or youth adopted through foster care is going to continue their Medicaid through 1821, whatever the state says. So typically, they will receive Medicaid through adulthood. So that's helpful. It's very helpful as an adoptive family, talking both these things, speaking of the financial side, because there's realities in having a child, saying yes to a child and having them with you.
Brian Mavis (29:22.896)
Mm-hmm.
Courtney (29:27.016)
different than the money we were talking about earlier, right? It's just like those expenses of raising a child. But I feel like those things are helpful, but I feel like the support that is really needed for adoptive families, sadly, like you said, often stops with foster care. Again, I know families, there are so many resources and you've got caseworkers, you have resource workers, have all these people, CASAs, guardian items, and then adoption happens and they all just go away.
Brian Mavis (29:29.988)
Right.
Courtney (29:56.207)
now this adoptive family is left to kind of figure it out. And that's when the real, know, yes, maybe a kid was with you for six months and now they're adopted. It's just not like six months and everything's just easy peasy, right? And so these hard things come up and that's where I feel like that's something that we really need more of in our country is people stepping up to say, okay, I see that these adoptive families are struggling with mental health or they're struggling with big behaviors or sexual, whatever it might be.
Brian Mavis (29:58.939)
Mm-hmm.
Travis (30:06.408)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Courtney (30:24.608)
and really having more resources to come alongside adoptive families. I just feel like it's not where it needs to be even close.
Brian Mavis (30:30.916)
Yeah, so the system isn't supplying the support that's needed, so we need an ecosystem to fill the gap.
Travis (30:37.313)
Mm-hmm.
Courtney (30:39.522)
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Travis (30:40.309)
Good word, good line.
Brian Mavis (30:42.096)
Okay, so both of you guys, adoptive parents, what would be your greatest advice for potential adoptive parents? They're like, yes, this is something that we are intending to do. We're intending to be adoptive parents. What advice would you give someone who was sitting down with you saying, we want to adopt, what should we, what advice could you give us?
Travis (31:12.033)
TORNA, go ahead.
Courtney (31:13.39)
I would say find those adoptive families that are going to be real and open and honest with you and ask them the hard questions and then ask yourself those hard questions. What has been the hardest thing? What has been something that you didn't expect? What has been something that you didn't know you could get through, but you did with the help of other people or the help of your faith or whatever it was that helped you get through the situation? And then go home and talk about those things and talk about that in realistic reality for your family.
Are we able to, again, keep the marriage of an adoption through these hard things? Are we able to say yes over and over and over again to this child or potential child? And be honest and real with yourself because the last thing we need is more families saying yes, but then saying no after they've said yes.
Travis (31:57.971)
Yeah.
Courtney (32:00.195)
And that sounds scary. mean, again, it's, we want to recruit more families. need more families. If you're listening, go adopt. we really need it to be the families that are willing to stick with.
Brian Mavis (32:12.677)
Yes.
Travis (32:13.121)
Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I really love the marriage of adoption thing. mean, I've got several peer, you know, friends that, you know, their kids are now in their, you know, 18 plus and things have gotten really hard. You know, it's, know, maybe they've even, you know, relinquished having their name that was their adoptive name. And there's all kinds of stuff, but by and large part, those families are still there and they're with them and knowing, Hey, this door is always open. Cause you're our son. I would say,
Brian Mavis (32:41.221)
Mm-hmm.
Travis (32:42.037)
just to add onto that. For me, it would be a little bit just on the front end of just, think kind of the flexibility, I would say the word, and awareness to know that some of these things like their family of origin story that is going to come up. And it's very important that if to you, that's already a shut door that you think that, you you're going to come into our family and be healed and we're going to be the cure all. we're going to
Brian Mavis (32:58.48)
Mm-hmm.
Travis (33:09.801)
and you're going to not have that need to go back or to want to meet your biological parents or that that's going to be too hard for you as an adoptive family to sort of, you know, and it can be complicated. I'm not, but to cheer that on to a degree in a safe, you know, way that you're comfortable with down the road. If you can't do that, don't enter the door. I mean, because you are going to really struggle. I think that's an important thing to hold loosely that that's, you know,
their identity is tied, all of ours, to who we came to the world with. And the last thing I'd say too is sibling connections. You may not be adopting all the siblings and even as you're peeking over the fence, but being aware to kind of think ahead to like, yeah, again, that kind of family of origin thing to how can we help preserve some of that or, yeah, keep that on the forefront.
Brian Mavis (33:47.407)
Hmm.
Brian Mavis (34:06.072)
Yeah. Well, I want to thank you too. I know I'm not an adoptive parent. We fostered and all ours were reunifications. But I have three grandsons who were adopted and, you know, very involved in their lives and just their gosh, they they're such great kids and.
And they're kids, know, they're driving you nuts too, but they're huge hearts. And I'm just really proud of my daughter and son-in-law who've stepped up in big ways and then the extended family, the aunts and uncles and all that. it is something that is a...
Travis (34:38.817)
huh.
Brian Mavis (35:03.79)
It begins in loss, but it can be beautiful. And these kids, I'll tell you one thing, they know that they're loved and they hear it multiple times a day and they are shown in other ways. And so grateful for you two as well for stepping up in such a huge life-changing way.
So since this is a National Adoption Month and this is the kickoff episode, what can people expect to hear for the next few podcasts in this month?
Courtney (35:44.109)
Yeah, we got a great lineup. We have a biblical counselor who does a lot of talks and did her whole thesis on grief and adoption. So I really, really encourage you if you're considering adoption or if you have already adopted to listen to that episode when it comes out, just a great episode of understanding what our kids think about and what we need to be thinking about and the conversations we need to have to help them through their grief.
Brian Mavis (35:54.852)
Mm-hmm.
Courtney (36:09.934)
through adoption, right? It's not even the grief that comes before, it's the grief now that they've been adopted. We also have a couple that live in Florida. They adopted a couple of Native American, a sibling set of Native Americans from South Dakota, and they're gonna share their story, their adoption story, and just how they've done that really well and love those girls well through cross-cultural differences and lines and just what it's meant for their family. And then we also have a young man who...
Brian Mavis (36:24.314)
Mm-hmm.
Courtney (36:35.308)
Speaks with his mom often goes around and speaks on translational adoption and shares his story. And he's going to share his journey of adoption and the things again that we need to be thinking about trans racially because oftentimes we don't know. Again, if you're one of those flexible families that say, home's open, you don't know if it's going to be a child that looks like you, has the same ethnicity. Maybe they do, maybe they don't, but just good things to consider and think about this month.
Brian Mavis (36:46.768)
Mm-hmm.
Brian Mavis (36:52.292)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Brian Mavis (36:59.694)
Yeah, yeah, some great stuff with real life lived experiences. So if you are interested in leaning into this and learning more about adoption, real safe way to start with no strings attached is go to America's Kids Belong website and you'll see, look for something like the fostering front door and there's one of those front doors is the adoption door.
And so you just click on that and you can see some ways that you can learn more and take next steps down that journey. Well, Courtney and Travis, thank you so much. Grateful for you guys and your sharing your adoption journey.
Courtney (37:48.952)
Yeah, thank you.
Travis (37:49.333)
Thanks, you too.