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We all carry something. In this soulful and deeply human podcast, Marilyn Getas Byrne holds heartfelt conversations with people who’ve lived through the unthinkable—and made their way back to joy. These are real stories of pain, healing, and what it truly means to choose happy.
Today's episode of I choose happy is brought to you by the comfy, wearable blankets that make life happier. Go to the comfy.com for 20% off your first order by using the code I choose happy at checkout. The comfy relax like you mean it.
Margot:Sometimes I get just like a billboard in front of my face, but it's an inner screen. It's not out there. As I'm there trying to save Andy's life, this billboard said to me, Barbara is gonna kill herself over this.
Marilyn:Welcome to I Choose Happy, the show about what we carry and what sets us free. You'll hear stories about loss, hardship, and reclaiming your joy. I'm Marilyn Gidas Byrne, and on the show today, two trips to the Grand Canyon. First, tragedy, then transformation. Some stories begin with adventure.
Marilyn:And for 79 year old Margo Baker, adventure wasn't just a moment. It was a way of life. Born in 1946, Margo grew up in the tiny town of Centralia, Missouri.
Margot:And when it
Marilyn:was time for college, she headed south to the much bigger world of SMU in Dallas where she met the love of her life, her husband Tyler. Not long after, the two of them bought a Volkswagen bus in England and hit the road quite literally driving over 40,000 miles through Europe, North Africa, and even The Soviet Union before eventually returning to The States to start a family. Over the years, they discovered a shared passion for white water paddling, running rivers big and small all over the world, making memories on the water. But there was one river trip that remained the holy grail, the Colorado River through the Grand Canyon. It takes years to plan.
Marilyn:Permits are rare. The river is remote and wild. But eventually, the timing was right. Their kids were old enough, the stars finally aligned. Margo and Tyler planned to invite a large group of family and friends, including Margo's best friend, Barbara.
Marilyn:And at the very last minute, Barbara called to say that she wouldn't be able to make the trip.
Margot:She just wasn't sure she could she would have the vigor to do the whole trip. And she'd signed up and she'd signed up her 13 year old grandson to go with us. And so it was all gonna be great. And then kind of at the last minute, she had to back out and she had her son, who's the uncle of this boy, take her place. And he was not a river runner.
Margot:He didn't know much about, you know, running rivers.
Marilyn:But But he'd be there with her grandchild.
Margot:He was gonna be there, and we all knew you know, we knew everybody. And so here we go. And every time you go every day you go down the river, or most days you go down the river, there are side hikes up different canyons so that it's not just sitting, you know, on a raft for two weeks. It's a lot of side hikes. Well, our very first side hike was up a a canyon called North Canyon.
Margot:And we were all on the trails the trail. And ahead of me, I hear someone kind of stumble or, you know, pebbles and rocks start falling down the hill. And then I'm hearing this above, and I'm hearing the guide say, man down. Man down. And I hear the thud on this rock shelf.
Margot:And then scrambling, everybody trying to scramble down and the word coming down from the people who were closest to it saying, It's Andy. It's Andy. It's Andy. Finally, I get that information. Turns out my children were on right ahead of and right behind Andy as he fell on the trail.
Marilyn:And Andy is the 13 year old
Margot:Yes.
Marilyn:Grandson of your best friend, Barbara. Okay. Right. Did he just lose his footing? Did something give way?
Marilyn:Okay.
Margot:Those people who were at who had gone around that particular big boulder had said, you know, it's kind of a scary place because there's not a lot of space, and you've gotta be careful where you're putting your feet. Like, my one of my daughters got down on her hands and knees and kinda crawled it.
Marilyn:Okay. Okay.
Margot:You know, it's there's there's nothing easy in the Grand Canyon. I mean, it's beautiful and its nature
Marilyn:And it can be unforgiving.
Margot:It has challenges. Yes.
Marilyn:Mhmm.
Margot:So, you know, it was then everybody scrambled back down, scrambled back down. Most of the people got taken back over to where the boats were. I scrambled up with the guides to try to get to where Andy was. And long story short, he did not survive that fall. In an instant, everything was changed.
Margot:And I don't know about you, Marilyn, but sometimes for me, it's like I get just like a billboard in front of my face, but it's an inner screen. It's not out there. But here is this billboard as I'm there trying to save Andy's life and fail. This billboard just said to me, Barbara is gonna kill herself over this. Indeed, I spent the next seven months trying to make sure that didn't happen.
Margot:She fell into a really deep depression. Her whole extended family fell apart in grief. I got to her in time to save her life the first time she tried to kill herself.
Marilyn:Oh, Margo.
Margot:And the second time, I got there too late. And talk about throwing yourself on a therapist couch. That was exactly what I needed Yeah. At that time. You know?
Margot:We and and nobody should know this if you've not rafted the Grand Canyon. There's no getting out until you got down halfway to Phantom and had to walk out if you wanted. So this helicopter came in, took Andy's body, took Phil, the uncle, and they were the only ones who got out of this experience. We, on the other hand, paddled the next twelve days
Marilyn:Oh my gosh.
Margot:Until we could get to the end of the river where the we could get out.
Marilyn:What was going through your mind at that time as you're just can't imagine here, you're surrounded by all these people. You're in tight quarters in a raft, but yet I bet you felt totally alone.
Margot:Well, there were parts of it that felt lonely, but I felt so responsible. My kids were there. Our friends' kids were there. We were dear friends, and we were going through the same loss. Oh, okay.
Margot:And yet every day, the beauty of that place in nature couldn't be ignored. It it was really one of the times when I really learned that beauty heals and nature heals. And so I think that helped hold us together to be in such an incredible place.
Marilyn:So you're going down the river now. Andy has been and his uncle are taken away in in in a helicopter. How what did you do? Do you remember feeling how do we keep morale going for the next two weeks? Still, we can't even get out of here until we get to this point to, you know, twelve more days down the river.
Marilyn:What did what do you remember doing? Were there questions asked by the younger ones? Or do you remember were you did you all talk about it? Did you hold just quiet moments together? Do you remember did it come up, or did everybody just sort of shelve that tragedy till until you got out of there?
Margot:Well, one of the things about going down the Grand Canyon with an outfitter is they have river running staff. They have fabulous people who have done this trip repeatedly, and they have a defined structure. There are ways in which, you know, you help get all the gear on and off and where you know what the pattern's gonna be, or you're gonna get out on the river on the side and scout the next rapid before you run it. So there it was the blessing of structure that I think helped a lot of people take it day by day by day. You know, I've always thought about it, and I I guess it's because of the work I had done all my life.
Margot:There's a combination of structure and challenge. And these two have to be dancing together for there to be growth or healing so that if you have too much challenge and not enough structure, it's hard to move forward. Mhmm. And I think that we'd had a huge challenge, but I think we also had a compelling structure every day. We knew what we were gonna do.
Margot:We knew where we were gonna camp. We knew we just were following the itinerary. The river leads one way.
Marilyn:Yeah. Right. Right. And, of course, you could not talk to your friend Barbara. There you didn't have a cell phone that worked, I'm sure, from from that point.
Marilyn:This was 02/2001. Right. So you didn't know for those twelve days how she was doing or how she got word, or do you remember how you
Margot:found out about They did you know, halfway down the halfway through the Grand Canyon, you get to a a place called Phantom Ranch. Phantom Ranch is one of those places that hikers can hike down to and stay at Phantom Ranch. Oh, nice. Okay. Or you can come downriver and hike up a little bit and stay at Phantom Ranch.
Marilyn:Okay.
Margot:But right before there there is there was a an actual telephone booth on the hiking trail at a ledge just before you got to Phantom. And they paused there long enough for me to go up and make a collect call to my friend Barbara. And she actually was home and answered it. So
Marilyn:What was that conversation like, Margo?
Margot:Oh, lordy. Raw. It was it was very emotional. And, you know, at that time, the family was all trying to be together, which was good. What happened over time is the the bonds frayed.
Margot:Uh-huh. And things fell apart. I mean, grief can destroy connection. And in this situation, it did.
Marilyn:Between you and Barbara?
Margot:No. Between Barbara and her the mother of this child who had died, her daughter and son-in-law, and there was another eight year old little brother. And, I mean, you know, it was so it was a really difficult time for that family.
Marilyn:Unthinkable. Unthinkable.
Margot:And that family didn't survive it. There to this day, of course, now it's what? Almost twenty five years later. But the only living member of that family now is who was that eight year old boy.
Marilyn:Oh, wow.
Margot:Everybody else gone with different versions of how to leave.
Marilyn:And so Barbara is obviously, at that time, feeling tremendous responsibility and guilt about maybe not being there,
Margot:about sending Exactly. Yes. Exactly.
Marilyn:And then you're feeling this tremendous weight of here's my best friend, and this was on my watch.
Margot:Yeah. It was a difficult it was a really difficult time. And coming right on the heels of helping a dear elder, wise elder friend through her own transition and learning so much and feeling like I was moving into another version of myself.
Marilyn:Well, what a dichotomy, Margot.
Margot:Tell me.
Marilyn:You're you're helping your elderly friend as she's succumbing to was cancer for her?
Margot:No. Just old you know?
Marilyn:Old old age.
Margot:Congestive heart failure at 89.
Marilyn:Okay. So you're helping her, you know, helping her know it's okay to to cross. You're you're shepherding her there.
Margot:I had list she had asked me if I would listen her life out of her. She wanted to be known for who she was at that moment and for everything that had led her there. And all of these rich conversations, all of this clear intention Wow. It's it's like here I was learning to be totally present at a big transition and had felt like it was a growth opportunity. And it was almost like, oh, really?
Margot:Well, let's try this one on. Uh-huh. Let's just see how long you can stay there. I mean, it was opposite end of a continuum.
Marilyn:Wow. So she passes, and now you're in this position where you're doing everything you can to hang on to Barbara.
Margot:And keep her here. Keep her from keep her depression from overwhelming her. Yeah. You know? And, of course, you know, in these situations, what do you learn?
Margot:Well, some some's your work to do and some's not your work to do. As much as you want it to be different, you're not in charge.
Marilyn:No. And that's that's somebody else's journey life journey? Yeah. What did you do to try to help Barbara stay? I mean, did you feel that Oh.
Marilyn:Were you were these, like, daily visits? Were you
Margot:Oh, absolutely.
Marilyn:Yeah.
Margot:Absolutely. Camping, being present, helping her get to the resources that she was looking for. Mhmm. Helping listening to all of her ruminations about, you know, what was going on with the rest of her family. I mean, we had been dear friends for thirty years, going to grad school together.
Margot:This was somebody I knew and loved dearly,
Marilyn:and you couldn't ultimately save her.
Margot:No. Uh-uh. And then, you know, what happened for me at the end of that, the second time, when I went over there, and I got there too late. Mhmm. Then here come, you know, the police and the medical examiner, and I have to stay there and essentially be interviewed as though possibly I'm, somehow involved in the wrong way with this death.
Margot:We don't know. But then they said I could go home. And I was it was like I was just almost unknown to myself because of this reality, this the finality of it. So I'm in my own home, which is just a few blocks away, and I'm just kind of staggering and walking through my living room to the front hallway, to the dining room, to the kitchen, to the den, walking this circle, and no one was in the home. My daughter was off at school, another off at college.
Margot:Tyler was at work. I was there by myself. And I'm walking this circuit and I hear someone in my house. I hear someone say out loud, I hear somebody say, I choose life. And my first thought was, well, who is here?
Margot:I didn't know anybody else was in my house. And I I started walking in this circle some more, and I heard this again. I choose life. And and the third time I heard it, I realized I was the one saying it. It was like I wasn't in myself enough to notice that I was the one saying it, naming it, claiming it, becoming it.
Margot:Ugh. I did not know. And as soon as I heard it and I knew it came from the inside out, I knew it was so. I'm choosing life.
Marilyn:And that begins your healing journey?
Margot:That's the beginning.
Marilyn:Margo, how powerful is that? And then to and then to come into the realization, this is you. This is some place deep inside of you
Margot:Mhmm.
Marilyn:That is I don't wanna say course correcting, but it's almost like setting the setting the foundation right from this moment forward.
Margot:Next chapter. There's no going back. No. Now there are parts of you as your experience begins to be guided by that inner light, there are there are parts of you that weaver inside of you is remaking the tapestry. Mhmm.
Margot:You know, it's pulling to get things together and they fit better and and they serve a deeper purpose. And it's almost like a kaleidoscope
Marilyn:Mhmm.
Margot:Where you turn in that thing and it's all this jumble, jumble, jumble, and weirdo, weirdo, weirdo until it stops and there's this whole new pattern. And it's kinda like that. And, you know, it was also at a time when my youngest child was going off to college. It was at a time when I thought the experiences I'm having right now make what I have been doing for thirty years in my career, it doesn't fit me anymore. So I retired.
Margot:And we moved out to Carmel Valley. My husband left his law firm, joined a law firm out here. We had actually bought Eve's house.
Marilyn:And just for clarification, Eve is the woman that you helped.
Margot:Yes. So she could live the rest of her life there. And then at some point move out here. Well, we moved before we thought we would. And one of the things Eve had said to me, she said, Margo, you must find a way to use your hands for healing.
Marilyn:Those would be words that would change everything for Margo, and so too would a return trip to the Grand Canyon. But first, I just have to thank The Comfy, our presenting sponsor, and two people I love so much, Brian and Michael Special, for bringing incredible heart and support to this show. You know those magical beach bonfire nights with the kids, the ocean air, the waves, that mix of sand and salt and laughter? And then suddenly, it's freezing. That's our cue to throw on our comfies.
Marilyn:It's one of our favorite beach traditions, everyone wrapped up by the fire, and it just makes those memories even sweeter. If you want that kind of cozy joy, head to the comfy.com and use our code, I choose happy, for 20% off your first order. Wearable blankets that make life happier and warm up the ones you love. The comfy, relax like you mean it. So far, Margo Baker has shown us what it means to choose life even in the face of tragedy, even when the losses are unbearable.
Marilyn:She couldn't save Barbara or Andy. But in time, Margo found peace not by forgetting, but by honoring their memory and transforming her pain into purpose. And in the quiet space that followed in the slow rebuilding of her life, something unexpected happened. At a book club of all places, a conversation sparked a new path, one that would lead her deeper into service, connection, connection, and healing. Her work with Eve had already planted the seed.
Marilyn:Margo had a natural healing presence, but now she was about to discover healing touch, a practice that would shift the course of her life and allow her to walk alongside others in some of their most vulnerable moments. And it all started with those prophetic words from Eve. Margo, you have to find a way to use your hands for healing.
Margot:I said, what are you talking about? And she said, because she was she had emphysema and congestive heart failure. Mhmm. She had a lot of swelling in her lower legs with bandage and weeping in her lower legs and bandages that had to be removed, it was excruciatingly painful. So I had to learn.
Margot:I've never done that before, but I had to learn how to do it and minimize pain and then get them wrapped up again and then kind of help her feel calm again. And it was that experience that made her say that to me.
Marilyn:Well, you were you were doing healing.
Margot:I mean, you
Marilyn:know Knowing it.
Margot:Love was leading the way. You know? My love for Eve was leading the way for me to try to be helpful to her. Wow. And so flash forward now, it's 02/2003.
Margot:We're out here, and I'm in this little book group. And, oh, there are probably, you know, eight or 10 of us around this circle. And when you know, we're all in there in in in this circle. And it's clear by the kind of conversation that is starting. No one read the assignment.
Marilyn:Everybody's always called it. Everybody's distracting and stalling. Right.
Margot:And that's why ever since then I call it my fake book group. But this the woman sitting next to me then said, well, it's clear nobody's read the book, so let's just go around the circle. And each person tells something really important about themselves. I'll start. There's a person sitting next to me.
Margot:So I'm sitting there and I'm listening, and she starts telling about this amazing experience she'd had when she was in Hawaii, and somebody had told her to go see this healer. And this healer was a healing touch healer. And, oh my god, she benefited so much from it. So she came back home. She trained in healing touch, and now she's an instructor.
Margot:She teaches healing touch.
Marilyn:There you go.
Margot:And I'm sitting there listening to this.
Marilyn:And I said eaves whispering in your ear. I told you.
Margot:I said, well, when's your next class?
Marilyn:Oh, that's
Margot:And if there was one coming up, so I took her next class. Then I just kept taking the classes.
Marilyn:Going back to just those first steps, I wanted to talk about before you found healing touch. What did you do for yourself to help? You said you put you on the on the therapist couch, so you did seek you did you did seek therapy. I did. That that was greatly helpful to you?
Margot:Yes. And, and, actually, there were several things that helped with closure.
Marilyn:Yeah. Because I think that's what for our listeners.
Margot:Yes.
Marilyn:There's so many times I think I wanna connect with when I hear you speak, you have these golden nuggets of of wisdom that I want everyone to know about. And I think it's if someone could hear those tangible steps, I mean, what can you do? Because that's the that's the problem. People say, okay. I'm choosing my happy.
Marilyn:It it is choice. I am going to whether it's serving others or but I think to really break it down to the nuggets of tangible steps, what do you think people can do? What did you do to start that healing process?
Margot:I made closure in several ways. For example, deciding to retire from my job early. That was a way of of ending one commitment and freeing myself for next opportunities, not knowing what they were gonna be. Mhmm. I also And
Marilyn:that required some trust. I'm
Margot:Yes. I
Marilyn:mean, serious trust.
Margot:Taking just stepping forward. Yeah. But see, I had spent thirty years as my my work life had been helping college students create the next version of themselves, either as their academic adviser, as their career counselor, as their pre law adviser. I listened their lives out of them.
Marilyn:Wow. And laying and helping them lay the groundwork.
Margot:Them make the choices and respond to what they chose and, you know, next steps, next steps, next steps.
Marilyn:And you didn't realize you were laying the foundation for yourself.
Margot:Yeah. That it was my turn to go through this next chapter. So then I think also one of the things I think this is and I I talked a little bit about structure before. Mhmm. This is where one of the things that is structure is ritual.
Margot:You know, ritual is a form that is honored and conducted in the same way. And that is comforting for a lot of people.
Marilyn:Especially around especially around closure.
Margot:Yes. In Barbara's suicide note to me, she asked me to spread her ashes on on the Guadalupe River because we had paddled the Guadalupe more than any other river. And, you know, it's very strongly back in my awareness right now with all the flooding and all the death on the Guadalupe in the hill country of Texas right now. Because I paddled every mile of that river downstream from where those camps were starting at Sisterdale. And so it took me several months through all this therapeutic time.
Margot:And then I was thinking of going ahead and moving to California, but I said, I'm gonna go down to the Guadalupe, and I am going to put Barbara's ashes some in each of the river crossings where we started each time. And I drove down there, and I spent an entire day. I'd start, let's say, the Sister Dale Crossing, take a camp two camp chairs out, sit them on the gravel bar like we were camped there.
Marilyn:And remember
Margot:everything that's right. Remember everything about that part of the river and who we had been at that time. And when that felt complete, I put some of Barbara's ashes right there in the river, watched it go downstream. I did that. It took all day long.
Margot:And interesting one of the interesting parts of that that was closure. At the last place, there was a rapid it was Waco Springs Rapid, then a little bit beyond that is Slumber Falls. And so I'm down at Slumber Falls now remembering times we'd done that part of the river. And, of course, as the day progresses, I cry when I have all these memories.
Marilyn:And So there's release.
Margot:Yes. There's release. Emotional release.
Marilyn:And and so really a brave to me, a brave way to turn into the grief, to feel it, to to to and it's cathartic, I'm I'm sure Yes. For you even now looking back on that that you you chose to to face that all.
Margot:And one of the interesting things about that last throw into the river, it's Slumber Falls. On the opposite side of the river, the road comes down right about there and then goes along the other side of the river. And I've been all by myself for all day long at these sites. It's in the middle of the week, and I hear a car coming. And after I've done this, I look up on the other side and it was a car that was identical to Barbara's car.
Margot:And I thought, I can't believe this. And that car, whoever was driving it, came right down, saw me doing this, stopped the car, looked at me, looked at this, and then continued driving on. And I thought, oh my. Here I go.
Marilyn:There it is.
Margot:This is complete. Yeah. Next chapter.
Marilyn:It's like it's like a nod from Barbara.
Margot:And and there was one more part, and that was that Barbara had also wanted me to put some of her ashes in the Grand Canyon if I ever went there again. So I had saved some of her ashes. I was saying this to friends, new friends out here in Carmel Valley. Two of them looked at me, looked at each other and said, We're gonna fly to Dallas and we're gonna drive with you. You can't do that by yourself.
Margot:And that's what they did. I burst into tears. That was such a generous,
Marilyn:loving So unconditional. Yeah. Talk about friendship.
Margot:Yes. And so here we go. It's like January, it's cold. We get to the East Rim where the river comes down and makes this turn where the little Colorado River comes in and it flows west then. We stood at that point.
Margot:I read some favorite poetry and released Barbara's ashes in that crisp morning air. And it was like there was this set of ash in the sky above us kinda paused, and then this wind went and off it went. And it was a unique moment. And then we went over to the South Rim where we were gonna spend the night at Bright Angel Lodge, which we did. But I woke up in the night.
Margot:I didn't know what time it was, but I was wide awake. And I said, I've got to get out. I've got to work. And it was a new moon time. There was no moon.
Margot:There was an incredible sky of stars. Amazing. I put on every warm layer I have and I sneak out. I don't wanna wake anybody up. I sneak out.
Margot:And as soon as I get on the grass, here's this deer just looking me in the face. And I go, not afraid of me. And I decide to walk on that pathway that goes out around the edge of South Rim. And it was so dark. I could see the sky.
Margot:But if I looked down, it was just this total dark darkness darkness. You couldn't see a thing. I could hear a mile below me, granite rapid, that sound was coming back up. But and I stood there, and it's like I was just trying to comfort myself. Comfort myself.
Margot:And I stood there long enough that was starting to be the first hint of light. And and I could see then the range of mountains to the west as the sun was coming up in the East. And and it it was like it it wound up feeling like the creation of the earth. The it it I was immediately taken back to the first chapter of Genesis.
Marilyn:Oh, wow.
Margot:And how darkness covered the face of the earth and how light changed everything. And I watched it all come, and I was just filled with shivers that had nothing to do with being cold. You know?
Marilyn:I It was an awakening, Margo.
Margot:I was I was being invited into a new dawn, into another way, and the only answer is yes. And I'll never forget that moment. It was such a blessing, such a unforgettable moment. I swore that I wanna be awake before dawn every day for the rest of my life so that I can experience that newness. And, you know, I usually get up real early.
Marilyn:You do. I know this about you.
Margot:I know. People say, wait a minute. Wait a minute. I got an email from you at 04:30, Margo.
Marilyn:And the deer come to your home too. Yeah. They do. The deer are present. How what you just described is such a spiritual experience
Margot:Oh, yeah.
Marilyn:That I could imagine that you could feel Barbara and Andy and and Eve and all of that presence. Or I don't know. Did you, or did you were you aware of that connection to the other side?
Margot:It felt like a dawn. It felt like anything from the past could be released if it didn't serve this moment.
Marilyn:And it's kind of you earlier said a new chapter. So this is yet another new chapter in your life.
Margot:In many ways, Eve is still very present in my life. And, yes, Barbara is very present in my life, but not in that profoundly sad way that I had been consumed by. Mhmm. I it's like spirit took a shiny cloth and shined me up a little bit. Wow.
Margot:I don't know. It just was
Marilyn:So it was your and it was your own transformation here. Yeah. And can I can I put a light on something too? When this happened at the Grand Canyon when Andy died
Margot:Uh-huh. 02/2001.
Marilyn:And then Barbara ended her life
Margot:In January 2002.
Marilyn:So let's just mention on 09/11/2001. So right in the middle here is 09:11.
Margot:And Barbara was the first person who called me at work to tell me, go to your common room and turn on the television because this is happening in New York.
Marilyn:How did it go together? How did you even assimilate what was happening during 09:11 and this sort of collective grief, this heaviness around the world as there was this juxtaposition in your own personal life, this battle that was so big. How did that all fit together?
Margot:Well, there were several sayings from my early life that fed that moment and helped me tremendously. That's when I was seeing my therapist. And and the two sentences, the first one is the only way through it is through it. And the second sentence is and it takes as long as it takes. Now those are wise words from people who have lived a lot.
Margot:I had heard those words growing up. My grandma would say them. So
Marilyn:they were anchors for you. There was something Yeah. You could tap
Margot:And they were anchors for my therapist too because she'd grown up. She in her case, she'd grown up, you know, in East Texas. You know, the only way through it's through it. Mhmm. Running from it isn't gonna get you there.
Margot:When you go through it and allow it to take as much time as it takes Yeah. You you quit running away.
Marilyn:One of our other podcast guests was saying that, you're going to have that date with grief eventually. So get on the grief train and feel it. And she was saying as as soon as you can because she said she prolonged it for six years. She she pushed it off. But she said that she just didn't have have the strength or maybe she felt the overwhelm or she didn't have the courage at the time to do it.
Marilyn:But once she did, she said then the healing could begin. And so I love that. I love what you're saying about the only way through it is through it because it's not something you can shelve forever. And maybe some people work real hard trying to do that.
Margot:Oh, yeah. Well, honey, I had every diversionary tactic in the book. But I'm just telling you
Marilyn:being human. But eventually eventually, there was that that fire in you or that that that I choose life. It was it was embodying that phrase that you heard yourself saying that I'm I'm gonna make a choice here. Yep. And I think it does come down to choice, doesn't it, Margot?
Margot:Yes. But there's also ways that you can encourage others to deepen their own access to that within. Marilyn, you know this. This happens in all the work we do. There is nobody we serve in the cancer community who wants to have cancer.
Margot:No. No. It's suddenly your life is turned upside down. It's thrust upon them. Diagnosis.
Marilyn:Right.
Margot:And, you know, everything's dumped out and you've got to find a new way. And the thing that I love most about getting to do healing touch in a situation like that is that the invitation is for the person on the table to get still, quiet, in receiver mode. Not a thing they have to do. Don't fix it. Don't manage it.
Margot:Relax. Slow your breathing down. And that's when it starts becoming an inside job. Because one of the things that happens, you're no longer just living in monkey mind up here.
Marilyn:You said something profound too is when you get still enough, you can hear the whispers instead of the shouts. I think we all get busy. We all get distracted. We're onto the next thing, onto the next thing. And and and life almost has to the universe speaks louder and louder and louder when you that needs to get your attention.
Marilyn:Right. And so it's so true of healing touch. And I remember being on that table shortly after being diagnosed with breast cancer. You know, I was 40 years old with two young kids, as you remember. Yep.
Marilyn:And you told me, just whatever comes, allow it. And I was on that table. And if the tears needed to come, let them flow. And you allowed me to take off my mom hat, my work hat, my wife hat, and just be. Yep.
Marilyn:And there was something in that hour I would spend with you every Monday that I was able to get quiet and still enough to tap into a part of me. Exactly. That where my body wanted to do that healing. My mind wanted to do that healing and get quiet enough to kinda get back in touch with myself. Because Yep.
Marilyn:The thoughts and the you know, it's hard to sleep and and all of those things. I think, now as a provider myself, and and I have this wonderful privilege of working on, newly diagnosed cancer patients who are going through treatment. And this work is so wonderful because it it helps alleviate nausea with chemotherapy, heat buildup with radiation, and also the healing times. I've my own oncologist, doctor Nancy Rubin, talking about how she sees faster healing times after surgery. She said it's just without a doubt.
Marilyn:And then I remember Stanford saying people who do they can't really they don't know exactly how to measure it, but people who receive healing touch have better outcomes Yeah. On so many levels. And and I've seen it. I've seen it. And, just the peace that comes over people.
Marilyn:There's something there I don't wanna I don't know if miraculous is the word, but there's something powerful that happens when two people are working together. And that's why we called call them healing partners.
Margot:Yes.
Marilyn:And I just being a recipient when you were my provider and now being a provider to others who are receiving, I've really been able to sort of assimilate that that experience in a new way. It works. It works. And, what I love to to share with everybody is that Margo bringing, this work to our area. And, again, the nonprofit is Healing Partners of the Central Coast.
Marilyn:It has been expanded. We're doing work at the bedside in our in our local hospital. And Margo has been steadfast in making sure we keep this free to the patients because and and that means that the providers are doing this on a volunteer basis. But we're reaching more and more people out there who need this kind of nurturing, this kind of care. It's just it's really beautiful, isn't it?
Margot:I mean, how lucky that we get to do this work.
Marilyn:I know. I know.
Margot:And see see the usefulness of it. Mhmm. Just makes my heart sing.
Marilyn:Yeah. Me too. Me too. And I think hearing your story, Margo, I I wanna conclude with asking you for someone who's listening out there. What would be the one thing you'd really like them to take away from from your life story?
Margot:Oh gosh. Each person's life is so unique. There's I'll use a a river analogy. Okay. But, you know, I know when I was learning how to paddle a canoe, and, you know, first thing you do is you hear the rapid ahead of you, and, you know, you notice you'd get a little scared.
Margot:Oh my god. My god. I'm capsized. You know? And the instinct is to try to slow it down.
Margot:Back paddle. Back paddle. Back paddle. No. Back paddle.
Margot:And then then you get close enough and you're you're right at the top of it and then you see a way through and then here you go. Rivers and flowing water have always been one of my greatest teachers. I always would urge anyone to think about where do they feel most alive. What's the circumstance where time drops off? You're not concerned about anything else?
Marilyn:Or where the flow is natural.
Margot:Is. Yeah. And, you know, when times get tough, it's hardest to hang on to that notion because we're afraid we're gonna get flipped out of the boat. We're gonna you know?
Marilyn:We want more control.
Margot:We want more control. Whatever. Whatever. And the only way we get farther down the river is staying in the boat. So there's just being open to the evolution of how experience and reflection
Marilyn:Mhmm.
Margot:And choice Mhmm. Come together to create the me you're gonna be.
Marilyn:And that was Margo Baker, a truly remarkable woman on so many levels. Morgan, I want you to jump in here because I know you have a few things to say about Margo. She is incredible, isn't she?
Morgan:Oh my gosh. I'm blown away by her. And I feel like she was so clearly put on this earth to offer healing and to help people. And, I know that you met her when she was offering you healing through Healing Touch. So what I was very curious to ask about is what does that feel like as a cancer patient to receive Healing Touch?
Marilyn:You know, it's a real blessing. I remember that first day on her table or coming into her studio and feeling immediate safety. You know, there's that richness of tone to her voice. I just believed in her, and I heard so many good things about her, that I felt like I was in good hands, so to speak. And I do think she was integral to my healing.
Marilyn:No doubt. I got on her table every week, and I could get still enough and calm enough where I think my nervous system could relax a little bit. I mean, you are on high alert when you're going through treatment, and you're experiencing some pretty scary things and some new things and painful things. And and Margo had a way of of stilling that and, making it manageable in little bits along the way, if that makes sense.
Morgan:Yeah. Well, I can imagine that you're probably in such a state of overwhelm with appointments and treatments, and you're in this cancer experience, and then you have a bright spot to look forward to with someone with a heart like Margo.
Marilyn:Totally. And I think with the healing touch, if you think about all the stages of treatment for a cancer patient, it's pretty invasive stuff. I mean, whether you're having surgery or chemo or radiation, it's all coming at you. And healing touch is so gentle. You don't even have to touch the person.
Marilyn:Sometimes their hands are over you. So it feels like it's something you could actually receive when you just always feel so inundated with the kind of touch you don't want, because it's not that comfortable going through treatment. I mean, it's manageable, but it's not exactly something you're seeking. And so I think it gives you a little sense maybe of even control to say, I'm gonna have something here, this experience that's gonna be nurturing to my body, mind, and spirit. And I know that's what's happening.
Marilyn:And as a now I am a provider helping cancer patients along their journey, and Margot was my mentor through throughout my training. It's a full circle experience to see somebody else receiving and having that privilege to work on some of these cancer patients who, they're so ready to to have that soft touch. So and Margo has brought Healing Touch to our area, the Central Coast Of California, a nonprofit called Healing Partners of the Central Coast where, there are 40 providers. We all do it voluntarily, so we keep it free to the patient. And we also give healing touch sessions to their caregivers.
Marilyn:So it's really a beautiful heart centered, modality that we're all feeling pretty proud of.
Morgan:Wow. Certainly something to admire and and just a tangible healing effect on a full community.
Marilyn:Totally. And I think when oncologists are actually prescribing this, it really validates this beautiful technique because for people who are kinda wondering how does it work I mean, even Stanford used to say, we don't know exactly how it works, but we know people who do it have better outcomes. So it is definitely worth looking into. So we're so proud of Margo, and she's doing incredible things to give back to her community. Oh, Morgan, thank you so much, and thanks to all of you for listening.
Marilyn:If you're looking for a safe space to keep these conversations going, come join us in the I Choose Happy Facebook group. Morgan and I are in there, and it's full of heart, healing, and people who really get it. Just search I choose happy on Facebook. We'd love to have you. See you next time on I choose happy presented by The Comfy.