LEWITT Audio - Behind The Brand

LEWITT Audio Founder Roman Perschon (CEO) and Moritz Lochner (COO / Head of Product Management) chat to Hugh Robjohns about their approach to developing, innovating and engineering their range of home, studio and live microphones.

Chapters
00:00 - Introduction
00:30 - Lewitt Audio Beginnings
04:42 - Creating Unique Products
08:19 - Engineering Focussed
09:34 - Circuit Control | Remote Control
11:37 - The LCT 1040 Microphone
13:35 - Working With External Engineers
14:25 - Expanding Into Other Areas
15:29 - The Electronics
16:28 - Industry Areas Needing Improvement
18:59 - Recording Environment Acoustics
19:56 - Company Expansion
23:29 - An International Team
27:12 - Development and Innovation
31:15 - The 10 Year Warranty

Lewitt Audio Biog
Designed and engineered in Vienna, Austria, LEWITT microphones set new standards in sound capture as a modern, innovative alternative to traditional technologies. Founded in January 2010 by entrepreneurial audio pioneer Roman Perschon, LEWITT is a dedicated and diverse team of audio experts with a passion for quality and in-house engineering capabilities to focus entirely on customers' needs. Today, LEWITT is considered one of the fastest-growing microphone brands with a diverse team of over 100 employees with offices in Europe, China, and the US. Each microphone model results from a consultative process including many of the world's most respected producers, sound engineers, and musicians – the growing worldwide community of audio enthusiasts who trust the sensational sound of LEWITT.

Roman Perschon, the CEO of LEWITT, studied Electronics and has been in the audio industry for 20 years. Twelve years ago, he founded LEWITT to push microphone design forward. Today, the brand is primarily oriented towards the user's needs. 

 

Moritz Lochner, COO and Head of Product Management at LEWITT, studied Audio Engineering and gained experience in the studio, live, and broadcast. He joined LEWITT in 2015 and quickly evolved to a leading personality within the company.

https://www.lewitt-audio.com/

Hugh Robjohns Biog
Hugh Robjohns has been Sound On Sound´s Technical Editor since 1997. Prior to that he worked in a variety of (mostly) sound-related roles in BBC Television, ending up as a Sound Operations Lecturer at the BBC´s technical training centre. He continues to provide audio consultancy and bespoke broadcast audio training services all over the world, lectures at professional and public conventions, and occasionally records and masters acoustic and classical music too!

Catch more shows on our other podcast channels: https://www.soundonsound.com/sos-podcasts

Creators and Guests

Host

Hugh Robjohns

Hugh Robjohns has been Sound On Sound´s Technical Editor since 1997. Prior to that he worked in a variety of (mostly) sound-related roles in BBC Television, ending up as a Sound Operations Lecturer at the BBC´s technical training centre. He continues to provide audio consultancy and bespoke broadcast audio training services all over the world, lectures at professional and public conventions, and occasionally records and masters acoustic and classical music too!

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Hello and welcome to the sound on sound podcast, which is in our people and music industry channel. I'm Hugh Rob Johns. I'm the technical editor of sound on sound. And I'm talking today with the good people of Lewitt audio.

Perhaps you'll introduce yourself chaps. Who are you? Hi there. My name is Roman Pershon. I'm the CEO of Lewitt. Yeah. And it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you, Roman. Hi, I'm Moritz. I'm COO and head of product management. Excellent. Thank you, Moritz. Uh, so let's start with the obvious question. When did Lewitt start and why?

Because you're a relatively new microphone manufacturer in the grand scheme of things. Yeah. Um, probably I take this opportunity to talk a little bit about my, my personal career or, or my ambitions. I'm in this industry for 20 years actually. Yeah. And I started out by, um, Being a strategic purchaser and project manager at an Austrian microphone company.

So that was my first job, um, after I graduated. I studied electronic engineering. I always had a passion for building things and, and for cool designs. And it was a great, um, first experience for me because I could travel a lot across Asia. I could visit production lines, see how things are assembled. At the same time, I was in very close contact with, um, R& D people, quality people, sales marketing.

So I got to see a lot there. And this very much helped me to, to learn about, uh, this industry and how things are done. Eventually I got to a point where I realized that I'm, I'm somewhat stuck in this company back then. I felt that there could be much more innovative things, uh, and, and, uh, cooler designs done.

And eventually one day an opportunity presented itself. And I. I decided to partner up with a Chinese fellow. Um, I subsequently moved to China actually to assemble a team there. At the same time, I assembled a team in Vienna and that's how it all started. Uh, from then on, basically it was a fairly quick journey to setting up the brand image and the first line of products.

I think we had an impressive 12 or 14 products at NAMM 2010. So we made a big splash there and of course in the beginning it was, it was tough, um, um, in terms of organization and skill. Obviously we were right at the beginning, so we evolved a lot over the past 13 years, uh, almost. So we changed a lot throughout the way and, um, it was a fantastic journey so far.

So I really feel blessed and I'm grateful for having the opportunity to have so many, uh, Nice, um, colleagues and contributors along the way and such an interesting work environment I was, uh, allowed to build. So, you mentioned your Asian partner. That's the manufacturing side of things, I take it. Um, also here, I think I, I was very much blessed because, um, my, my partner actually is a silent investor.

So he's, he's really not, uh, involved in our day to day business. Um, so I had all the freedom I, uh, one could imagine to basically, um, set up the company, um, steer the company in the directions. I and my, uh, my colleagues, uh, thought are, are the right ones. So it's really just that in the beginning it was very helpful because there was enough funds there.

There was even an, uh, factory environment, uh, we could count on, which is important at the beginning, you know, um, you have high ambitions, you have high, uh, requirements in terms of, of quality, of functionality, um, Of course, in the beginning, you don't have quantities, you don't have a big business case. So, um, having a partner that also could offer support in terms of production, um, that was really, really helpful.

And that basically allowed us to really focus on innovation and, product design features, um, yeah, understanding the market needs. So we, we didn't have to worry a lot or too much about manufacturing sourcing in the beginning that obviously changed now, um, as the company matured in the recent years. Um, so we have much more resources now.

And, um, of course we have a, a very good purchasing department, quality department and so on and so forth. Um, so we are managing this all by ourself and it's all very much a custom solution in order to bring these products to life that you see nowadays in our range. Okay. Did you have a policy in mind as to what, what kind of microphones you wanted to manufacture and bring to the world?

As you said, you started off with, with a pretty wide range in your initial sort of product launch. Yeah. Um, we did, you know, in, in, in the beginning when everything was very small, um, I think you have to weigh out your capabilities. What can you bring to the market? What can you reasonably manufacture? And obviously we knew that we need to come up with something, uh, innovative, something that hasn't been.

there before. I mean, there's a ton of microphone brands out there and nobody waited for another one. And certainly, um, I don't want it to create a brand that says just because of the price, we want to always to provide an extra value to the potential audience and target customer. So That was a tricky point in the beginning very much so and maybe Moritz you can share a few thoughts on this also.

Yeah, sure. I think it shifted over the years a bit. And primarily we are seen as a microphone company. Initially you need to have a strong foundation. So I think that is kind of our home base is the recording environment, you know, LCT line of studio microphones. Um, and as the company, you know, matured, we set out to kind of add on top of that or kind of refine things a bit more to specifically address some underserved needs in the market or where we see.

Already from the products in the market and the feedback from the market, how we can improve certain things. Uh, I think from the original product line, there are still, uh, some products in our current line and, um, also some others have been updated, you know, reflecting that. So, where do you see yourself fitting in amongst the, the established microphone manufacturers?

Well, I think this comparison with others is always a tricky one to us. What always mattered is basically that provide an added value, um, to our audience, to our customers. So it's really about understanding workflows, understanding the needs of, of, uh, these people. And providing, uh, reasonable solutions that add to that experience.

So our, our mission, our goal is really to make sure that all creative minds out there, um, have exceptional sound at, at hand. Okay. Um, that was always, uh, a, a guiding principle. And therefore you have to be close to the market. You need to look at people, uh, use cases and needs. And that always We are also see ourselves, you know, as a technology company and some of the more advanced stuff that goes on inside the microphones are probably not seen from the outside, but they're still there and they allow us to, you know, have a very good price to performance ratio.

Um, you know, very good quality. reliable products, um, good matching across the different products when it comes to frequency response, sensitivity and all that stuff. And I think we are kind of not looking into the, you know, tinkering on vintage designs, uh, side of the industry. So I think if there's one differentiation between some of the other brands, you know, we are looking forward, we want to bring new stuff to the market and we want to innovate.

Such as the, you know, the great microphone brands out there did when they were in their, you know, best years, nobody in the seventies said, let's make a microphone from the forties, right? Uh, so I think we are kind of following the tradition of actually trying to pushing the boundaries. I'm so pleased you said that.

When I came over and visited your facilities there a year or two ago now, I was very impressed with how engineering focused it was, very engineering led in what you do. I mean, yeah, that's what we do. And I think we have like a very high percentage of our colleagues are developers, engineers. of all sorts.

We have a ton of technology inside the products. Uh, just to mention a few examples, even in the analog microphones, we have microcontrollers, you know, the signal path is analog, but this allows us, for example, doing production to have it perfectly integrated with our measurement system that you do not.

have somebody there operating on a, on a tiny screw to adjust the sensitivity, but it's all done automatically. And I think that's also something where we have a different view on things. Often you hear, yeah, it's hand built, right? It's hand tuned. Actually, we don't want that. We want the machine measure stuff and tune stuff perfectly.

Humans are involved in the development side of it. Yeah, there you need to make human decisions. You need to have the perfect sound, the perfect, you know, usability. You need humans to do that. But when it comes to production side, we want everything to be done as automated as possible. Now, you mentioned there that you had a microcontroller inside the microphones, and that takes care of the quality control aspects when you're producing your microphones.

Um, is that in terms of making sure every microphone matches accurate tolerances, or how does that work? Yeah, exactly as you said. Just to give one example with our small, uh, diaphragm condenser microphones, um, we sell them in a stereo pair, in a matched pair. So to do that process, uh, you know, manually is very time consuming and therefore would require, you know, a lot of cost.

that needs to be passed on to the customer. If you are able to do it automatically, you know, that's the cost of, you know, setting up once. So basically there's a signal modulated on top of the XLR line that can, you know, send control messages to the microcontroller inside to adjust the sensitivity and therefore, you know, match the sensitivity across two microphones, but in general actually Oh, well, basically every single microphone you purchase from us, uh, for most models.

Excellent. That's quite an ingenious way forward. Um, I'm assuming this controlling idea is what allows you to do things like, um, remote polar pattern switching on the, on the larger microphones as well. Yeah, well, actually, what you see there is basically that once you start, uh, having clever solutions that help you, uh, in production, for example, like Moritz explained, where we use these signals in basically to automatically calibrate our microphones, achieve a better yield, um, um, reduce, uh, errors, um, and, uh, we are more cost efficient.

Sometimes what happens is we find that this technology is also useful in another place. For example, our LCD1040 has a remote control where we use a similar technology to make basically the microphone remote controllable without having an extra wireless link or an extra cable, right? It all goes via the already existing XLR cable and routing in a studio.

Okay, that's very interesting. Thank you. Uh, you mentioned the 1040 there. That's obviously your latest flagship. I had one here recently to review. And I have to say, it's probably the most impressively packaged microphone I've ever received. It's really quite a, quite a special thing. It's very nicely done.

Such an impressive microphone. What do you have in your plans for where you go from there? So, first maybe we can talk a little bit about the LCD1040 because it's important to what is happening next for us. Uh, at least in my opinion, because this project started in 2015, uh, Roman, you and I, I think we were at NAMM show and just very loosely talking about the idea of what would be the ultimate, you know, microphone you can even imagine.

I think we were puzzled a bit about, I mean, you see the shows, you see a lot of microphones, right? Um, and you see them, you also see the price tags, right? Some of them are, I don't know, 5, 000 US dollar, 10, 000 US dollar. And we got to wonder really what, what justifies this? What, what makes a great and ultimate microphone system?

And again, I think we, we had the feeling that we don't see a lot of innovation here. When we kind of started this idea, It kind of had, you know, multiple sides to it. First, we had already products out in the market, so that was super helpful to get the feedback to make it better. So I think that's a product that you cannot make as your first product as a company.

So you need that constant input. Then we had a bunch of people on board who supported us during the development from Let's say local heroes here in Vienna, uh, engineers to kind of world renowned, you know, producers, engineers, musicians. And, you know, we refined it and refined it. And in the end, uh, I think we, we succeeded.

It is, you know, uh, a product that can perfectly adapt to, you know, whatever situation you, you put it in. And it also marks for us some sort of closure with the studio microphone line. Which allows us kind of to move on to other things. Have you always worked with external producers and engineers around the world to help develop your microphones?

Or is that something that came on in the later years of your development? We always did. But not to that extent, I would say. So as the years progressed, you know, you make more contacts, you have more capabilities. Uh, we are about a hundred people now, so you can do a lot more just keeping in contact, right.

And, and kind of sending these microphones out and, you know, taking the time to visit the studios, you cannot really do that. Do it on a, on a huge global scale when you're just starting out with a few people. So I think that's something that we're going to do more of and something that has been so successful in the development of the RCT 1040 that we definitely do it for, you know, every new product development.

Right. Uh, so you mentioned that the, the 1040 is the flagship product of the studio line, which kind of implies that you've got intentions of going into other areas, uh, more than you currently do. As Roman already said, kind of our vision as a company, you know, we, we really strive to make, uh, make it possible for all the creative minds to express themselves with with really exceptional sound and obviously that is not only revolving around microphones and that's only not only revolving around studio condenser microphones.

Uh, I think we cannot go into any details of what exactly is going to be next, but we are looking at everything basically to make that happen. And besides the products, we also have a very strong focus on education, on letting people know how to use these tools. If you go to our website, our YouTube channel, we put, you know, a lot of effort into this and we see it in a more holistic way.

And obviously, if you see it in a holistic way, you cannot stop at our current portfolio. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And the whole education thing I think is very good, very important. There's a lot of electronics, very clever electronics involved in the LCT 1040 and many of your other mics actually.

So do you anticipate moving more in towards the electronic hardware side of things? Microphone preamps or that kind of technology? We have a partnership with Elgato. Um, uh, you know, a brand that is very, very highly regarded in the streaming space, gaming space. Uh, we developed together with them, USB microphones and audio interface.

So those are the things where some of our technologies already being used in, in products in the market. And we are definitely looking into expanding what is needed the most for, you know, the most people, I would say. So we're not going into very niche, uh, you know, things that you would only need in a recording studio, in a professional recording studio.

So we're rather looking, how can we enable really cool technology and cool solutions for people? You know, recording at home. Okay, that makes a lot of sense. Your microphones are very sophisticated, very advanced. Um, where do you see the weakest area of studio microphones in a perfect world? What would you like to be better?

I think there's not much that is really wrong with them. There's just certain limitations when it comes to it when you look at the whole system. So a microphone works really well and it will continue to work well, you know, years to come, but you don't know what is happening afterwards. And even if it's from the same company, right, let's say if one company makes the microphone, makes the audio interface, makes, you know, everything, these things cannot really understand what is happening and adapting.

That is something to look out for. Uh, personally, I also see the most innovation is not really done within the industry. But from, you know, computer companies like Apple and so on, when you look at their computers, the, the kind of quality you get out of the microphone is surprising. So I think that will be an interesting development in years to come.

Do you see the studio market condensing, or do you see it evolving more into the computer side of things, going more towards USB connected microphones, doing away with some of the hardware that we've been so used to for so many years? I mean, definitely not collapsing, definitely not. And I think in a studio, in the studio environment, the types of requirements you have on there to record a whole band and so much, you know, I don't see any other way around than the way we do it now.

Okay. When it comes to the home creator, I think there it's getting more interesting. I think, you know, from a convenience point of view. If you need to use a microphone, plug it into something, it's a lot less convenient as if you could just talk into your computer for some applications. Obviously not for all.

And I think the microphone will always be, uh, there. Uh, you know, a purposeful built microphone will always be there. The market is evolving, you know, more people are creating. If you look at, I don't know, TikTok, the most used microphone is, you know, the, the little microphone on the, on the Apple AirPods cable.

And the wired ones, they're holding it in front of their mouth. So, you know, we look at all of that and see that's kind of an interesting development. And then you see also these people progress. So, you could see it very well on TikTok. You know, first it was built in microphones, simple solutions, and now people have studio mics.

And, yeah, it's kind of interesting to observe. The biggest problem that we come across at the magazine with people recording at home is the acoustics of the environment they're recording in. So, yeah. Do you see any way that you can develop microphones that overcome that problem?

Yes, definitely. Okay. And? Well, I think we don't want to share too much in that regard, but we definitely also see that this is a problem. The way we look at this problem is, these tools have all been built for recording studios, and now they're being used at home, but they're not really built for recording.

for the home use, especially if you don't have like a dedicated room or, you know, nice room acoustics and, and so on. So, yeah. That's very encouraging. I like the idea that, um, that you're looking for ways of dealing with that kind of problem because it is by far the biggest problem that we experience and you hear it every day in recordings that we watch on YouTube or whatever.

Um, fascinating. Okay, so where do you see your company expanding to from here? Are you going to become even larger than you already have? You've mentioned that you've expanded quite a lot over the last 10 years or so. Yeah, um. We had a lot of growth in the recent years, a lot of change. I think this will continue, uh, definitely in the near future, but I think we also need to be mindful.

I mean, there's such growth is also, um, interesting thing to do. You have a lot of different challenges, new people you need to integrate, new colleagues. Um, your, your work environment changes a lot. Um, um, new added capabilities come into play. So it needs some time to digest that. Um, and I think we are already on a, on a very steep growth trajectory at this point.

I would assume that it's a little further out. This hopefully is, is not that steep. Um, yeah, it, it takes a lot of energy. It's fun though. And, and one thing that we definitely want to maintain is kind of the spirit and the vibe and, uh, can act in a nimble way. New ideas can, you know, quickly come and you do something with it rather than becoming, you know, overly bureaucratic and becoming like a, cooperation, a bureaucratic cooperation or something.

That's definitely not something that we are looking forward to. Yeah, this is actually very dear to us. Um, I think we spent a lot of time and effort to build an environment here at Lewitt where everybody can strive, learn, um, where it's, it's a place where people really like to come. And yeah, it's very important to us.

I think this, this work environment thing, because, um, At the end of the day, the best ideas come if people have the free space where you can bring your ideas to the table, where you get heard. And of course it requires also a certain framework and, and direction, but this is really important to us that we have a place where people really like to come and contribute and, and, and also grow.

Um, and, and that in itself is not so easy. You know, I think we have, we have, uh, an office in, in, in China that helps us, um, to basically bring our products to life in production there. Um, we have a big team here in Vienna. Um, so there is this, um, gap in terms of, um, time zone, but also culture and language.

And it's, for us, it was always very important to bridge this as good as we can. We hired, for example, a Chinese teacher here in Vienna. So, We can learn Chinese, um, we have, uh, English teacher in China, English teacher in China. Yes. So that they can improve their English skills. And this really pays off. Uh, I think people like it a lot.

It helps us, uh, in our daily work and it's just, uh, a good contribution to a healthy work environment. And this is really what we, what we, we, we value a lot here at, at, at Lewitt. There's, there's, uh, a dedicated department called Agile and Culture. So that kind of shows how important this is to us. Also, like how decisions are made that, you know, project teams can make the decisions there where people have the expertise that you don't have any, you know, only bureaucratic processes in place where you need to go see, you know, a manager to make any decisions.

But yeah, it's, it's a, it's not easy in, in this, in this fast growth, uh, environment. So how many people are actually working in the Lewitt, um, building in Vienna? What sort of numbers are we talking about there? I think currently it's about 60 plus. We have highly skilled teams that basically are very much focusing on development.

So a lot of innovation is happening here. And in China, we also have, um, uh, a great experience team that is focusing very much on industrialization. So here it's a lot about, uh, how to bring products to life in production. So it's, yeah, depending on, on the market and, and place we have. Yeah, dedicated people doing complex tasks.

And what I also really like is, you know, more than 20 nationalities at this point. Yeah, it's, it's very much a huge mix of different nationalities. Um, our working languages is English and second languages. I think, um, Chinese and German. Um, I'm surprised to hear that your, your main language in the office is English.

That, that, that is a surprise. Yeah, it has to be, I mean, again, 20 nationalities, half of, or a big chunk of the company sitting in, in, in China as well. Now, um, having an U S office. Um, I think that's the only and also majority of the 20 nationalities are in the Vienna office. So not everybody's even able to speak German.

And it became, it became very natural to us. We have German courses for our non German speakers here in the Vienna office. Um, but yeah, that takes time. Yes. Oh, that's, that's fascinating. So what percentage of the company would you say was, uh, on the technical side of things, uh, you know, engineering, development, R and D, that, that kind of thing?

Yeah, um, that also changed over time. I think when we started out, um, me having an engineering background, um, Moritz having an engineering background, um, Chris, our CTO, uh, very much so as well. I think in the very early days, we were a bunch of nerds fascinated by audio gear and yeah, it, it had this startup vibe.

It was very interesting. And we did some kind of nerdy products back then that not always were very successful in the market. So, um, I think we learned quite some, uh, lessons there. And subsequently we, we, we shifted our focus very much onto the, the users, um, and, and what benefits them. So I think you can see that it observes that a lot in, in, in, in young companies in the beginning.

And it was for us a very important move and very valuable. Also internally, I mean, you can always, um, try to perfect technology, but what's the benefit if it, if it doesn't, uh, help the, the actual user out there? I think there it's where you, we need to make a difference. It's a very valid point, yes. I think in the early days, it was probably almost, uh, 90 percent engineering, engineering.

Yeah. Uh, where we also learned our lessons that you also need to tell people what you do and you need to tell them, you know, in a cohesive and, and, and nice way. Uh, but we learned that lesson and, and kind of focused, you know, a lot of energy on sales and marketing and storytelling and content and, you know, everything basically around the product.

Yeah. And by now it's, it's quite balanced. Um, I think we are very happy with this setup currently. But still, the majority is engineering. A good chunk is engineering, yeah. Is the way you approach the market driven by the technologies and the developments that you make along the way? Of course, as a company, there's a necessity to be present in the market, um, and, and offer innovative products on a regular basis.

Um, and then, uh, the reality is, um, yeah, we want to make sure that these products are really spot on and innovative and, um, We certainly don't want to put out products that are, um, not matured. And, um, we do very much understand that this is very counter, very much counterproductive if you have a product with, um, flaws out there.

So In such situations, we always opt for giving it a little bit more time and perfecting the product and making sure that what hits the market and is available out there really does what it should do and excels at what it does. And so far, I'm very happy. I have to add here. I can believe it. Yes, I would be too.

We talked a little bit about the LCT 1040. Did you expect it to take as long as it did? to reach the market as it actually did. It was a very long investation period for that. Did you expect that when you started it, or was that just the way it worked out? Not at all. Not at all. Um, and we took quite some turns throughout this project.

But I think this is in itself a good example. I mean, of course we could have done better. Pushed it through and released it way, way earlier, but then we wouldn't have achieved what we achieved. I think with the product today. Um, and it's, it's very gratifying to see what people think of our LCT 1040 and it also goes to show how much, um, What a great thing that was to involve the industry, to really connect with people out there and really learn and gather their feedback and also take the time to incorporate that feedback into the product.

Um, and yeah, it was such a great experience, at times also frustrating because of course you would see the timeline slip and efforts pile up. But at the end of the day, I think it's a very rewarding experience to see that all this effort paid off. To us it's really important that the end result is really spot on and there and the product provides an added value.

And we had a lot of turns in this project. Um, when we set out, we had very nerdy ideas about what an ultimate microphone system should be. Um. And fortunately, we really involved the industry, um, on a local level here in Vienna, but then also on a broader level in a web survey. And then really traveling to studios and very professional people across the globe in order to fact check our ideas.

And that helped us a lot in the end. And yes, it caused it to shift the time schedule, um, many, many times, but, um, it, it's a, it, it paid off and it's a very rewarding experience to see that, that LCD 1040, um, being the product it is right now in the market and get a lot getting a lot of appreciation by professionals and it would be kind of pointless to travel to all these people get their feedback and then you know know that we could do it better and not do it and that was one of my personal you know favorite moments when In the end, with the finished product, we showed it to the people who were involved in the development and they noticed, you know, that their feedback in a very specific, you know, uh, point in the product was noticed, was changed, was updated.

Uh, yeah, it was just a nice, uh, thing to observe. And also, the good thing with these type of products is that they are not, you know, running out of fashion. So this is in the market for 10, 20, 50, 100 years. It's not that you do it and then you release one next year. Yes, quite. Um, you obviously have a lot of confidence in it, because it comes with a very long warranty, doesn't it?

Ten years, yeah. That's quite unusual. What's your thinking behind that? Very simple. If you pay, it is an expensive product. You know, we want to offer you the confidence that, you know, this will hold up. And if something happens, you know, you're covered for ten years. Excellent. I wish more companies had the same kind of confidence and faith in their products to do that kind of thing.

Brilliant. Okay. Let me say Maritz and Roman, thank you so much for talking to me today and, uh, I look forward to finding some of the new things that, um, that your company's gonna bring forward in the future. Alright, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for listening. Please check out the show notes page for this episode where you'll find further information along with web links and details of all the other episodes.

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