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What if you could get more of what you want in life? But not through pushing, forcing, or pressure.
You can.
When it comes to money, time, and energy, no one’s gonna turn away more.
And Kate Northrup, Bestselling Author of Money: A Love Story and Do Less and host of Plenty, is here to help you expand your capacity to receive all of the best.
As a Money Empowerment OG who’s been at it for nearly 2 decades, Kate’s the abundance-oriented best friend you may not even know you’ve always needed.
Pull up a chair every week with top thought leaders, luminaries, and adventurers to learn how to have more abundance with ease.
[00:00:00] kate: Hi, welcome to another episode of Plenty. Today I have the sweetest guest for you. He is my friend Clint Salter. He is my neighbor and we love taking walks together around the neighborhood and talking about all things business, music, pop stars, musicals, and more. He has had five exits from his companies that he has built in the eight figures before the age of 40.
He's been featured on NBC. He's written two books. He's the founder of Dance Studio Owners Association. He's been featured on NBC, Fox, ABC. He's an award winning entrepreneur. He used to be the company manager for the Fun and smart.
And in this episode, we talked about what questions you should be thinking about if you're thinking about possibly scaling and selling your company, how to know if you are the kind of person to build a personality based brand, or one that is a sellable asset, how to set your life up for friction free living, how to spend your money in ways that brings you joy.
So you get a lot more bang for your buck and how to know what not to spend your money on and so much more. So let's tune in. Enjoy the episode.
Welcome to Plenty. I'm your host, Kate Northrup, and together we are going on a journey to help you have an incredible relationship with money, time, and energy, and to have abundance. Every week we're going to dive in with experts and insights to help you unlock a life of plenty.
Let's go fill our cups.
Kate: Hey,
[00:01:50] Clint: Hi.
Thanks for being here.
Oh, amazing. I'm excited.
[00:01:54] kate: I'm so happy you're here. Okay, how old were you when you sold your first company?
[00:01:57] Clint: So I had my dance studio at 16 and then sold it to my business partner at 21. So it was five years.
[00:02:05] kate: Was there anybody in your family, anybody you knew who had sold a company before?
No.
Anybody in your immediate family or friend's vicinity who was an
[00:02:15] Clint: entrepreneur? No. My uncle was an entrepreneur. Still is an entrepreneur. What's his business? Construction. Okay. Very different. So
[00:02:24] kate: you had like a vague model. Of, maybe. But
[00:02:28] Clint: not... Yeah, and it wasn't, it was never about that. It was always about, the first business was a dance studio.
I love teaching. Lots of teachers in my family. And, that's what I wanted to do. You wanted to teach? I wanted to teach dance. I wanted to teach. I was teaching my cousins when I was 12, like, Japanese. I was teaching them dance routines. You spoke Japanese at the age of 12? Yes, because I was... This is one of the obsessions I had.
I like... I, like, fell in love in school with Japanese and I studied it for like eight years. You speak Japanese? No. Oh. But can you say one thing? I can say, 好きな語目は何ですか? What does that mean? Which means, What is your favorite subject? Okay. That's it. What is my favorite subject? So I love teaching.
[00:03:11] kate: I love teaching.
You love teaching. I love teaching. And you learn Japanese. I love learning new things about you. So, okay, so you were teaching your, your cousin's Japanese, you loved dance yourself. Loved dance. When did you
[00:03:23] Clint: start dancing? I started dancing late. I was nine because most people start at three or four. Yeah.
But I was in choir at school and then choir turned into my friend saying, come to dance club. So I went to dance club. Then it was like, mom, I want to go to a dance studio. And she's like, well, you've got to pick t ball or dance. Cause I was playing t ball. As a sport. And she's like, well, you've got to pick, you can't do both.
And so I ended up picking dance over t ball. Interesting.
[00:03:52] kate: And you were nine. I was nine. And needing to make a choice. That's what, I just think about that with my girls, because they like to do a lot of activities, and they like to change what activities they're doing all the time. They very much take after their mother.
And
[00:04:04] Clint: My mum wasn't about that. She was like, you commit for 12 months, And then that's that. And then you'll get to make another
[00:04:09] kate: decision. Are you happy with that guideline? Yes, in retrospect having to commit for 12 months and really go in. I love it
[00:04:16] Clint: because I think I Think now, you know, I wouldn't have had The time to really experience something and because you know when you learn something new it's like you go through that I'm not very good at it.
I kind of suck and I hate sucking I want to be good and so You get to the point where you can be good and then make a decision of like do I want to keep doing this? Do I not and we didn't have You know, single mom, public housing, like we didn't have money for her to go do violin and horse riding and
[00:04:47] kate: she was like, she's like, you pick.
Yes. No, also so smart just from a life ease perspective because schlepping your kids around to a hundred activities will
[00:04:56] Clint: really take it out of you.
[00:04:57] kate: So, okay. I love that so much. So you started dancing at nine and then you started teaching dance.
[00:05:03] Clint: So I started teaching, I think at about 12 or 13 as an assistant teacher.
So my studio owner was like, Hey, do you want to help me? And I was like, yeah, you know, I love teaching. So I started, and then she sold her dance studio and nobody liked the new owner. And so parents came to me and my friend and said, Hey, you guys should open up a dance studio. Okay. And so we kind of went to another dance studio for a little bit and then everyone's like, you guys need to do your own thing.
And so, so there was a gap in the market. I don't know if there was a gap, it's just like, no, we didn't, we didn't like what was going on. Well, that's a
[00:05:41] kate: gap in the customers were not satisfied with what was available. Right. Right. And
[00:05:45] Clint: so we rented this like tiny, tiny community hall. The flooring was tiles.
It wasn't even wood. So we were teaching on tiles. There was no mirrors. It was shutters with like glass doors and when it got dark enough, you could kind of see your reflection in the glass and that was that. And that's how we started. Wow. At 16
[00:06:07] kate: years old, like what made you think you could run a business
[00:06:13] Clint: of your own?
I don't, I don't think I ever thought about it like that. How perfect. I just, I think it was just, I want to teach, I love money, this looks fun. Yeah. Like it was, it was never about like running a business. Yeah, right, it was about the teaching. It was always just following, yeah, it was following the passion, following the excitement, following the challenge.
And that, following that journey just kind of got us to a point where we're like, Okay, now we need to move to our own place because we have like 200 students and now we need an office manager and we need more teachers. And how
[00:06:48] kate: old were you when you moved out of the community center? So,
[00:06:50] Clint: about 18 months.
So 18
[00:06:52] kate: months so you're still in high school or I don't know what they call it in Australia. Yeah, still in high school.
[00:06:56] Clint: Okay, great. Still in high school. So still in high
[00:07:00] kate: school, you're running this business. Were you making at that time, like, probably not a full time income because you
[00:07:06] Clint: were in school also?
No, it was, we were in school and probably a couple of hundred dollars a lot when you're 17. Yeah, and then it just, it, it continued to grow. And then I'm in that point of like, okay, I'm out of school now. Yeah. And my business partner, we started as friends that were doing something fun and then our lives shifted and what we wanted out of the business changed.
And so had the conversation of like, this is what I want. I want to build this thing. I want to grow it. This is me. I want to do this. I want to grow this business. And that's not what she wanted. You know, she wanted to have a family and work a full time job. And this was like nice money on the side. And so we just got to the point where I was like, you know what?
You take the business and I'm going to go on my next journey. So you sold the business.
[00:07:52] kate: You were 21. 21. So you sold your first company at 21. Yes.
[00:07:56] Clint: And then what? And then I was working at like a big aquatic center running their marketing. And during that, and I loved it. It was fun because it was a sports court, learn to swim and a gym.
And I managed all of the marketing for all the different departments, met some of my best friends in this job. You know, young, having a lot of fun, being creative. The boss was like. Do whatever you want, like as long as you get members and people in and I, I love that. So great. And then I moved on, after that I moved on to be the agent, an agent at the celebrity agency, managing TV and media personalities.
So that was like my next five year. My journey was managing talent at the same time as starting DanceLife, which was my next business. And then DanceLife was what? DanceLife was a media company for dancers and also a dance competition. Right. So we had a dance competition in Sydney where all the schools would fly in.
They would compete, win trophies, win money. Super fun. Loved, loved that business.
[00:08:58] kate: How long before you sold that business did you know? How did you know it was time for you to transition out and how did you know? Yeah. What
[00:09:08] Clint: were the signs? That one was basically forced because I, I, Got my dream job, which was to be the company manager of Jersey Boys the musical I had always wanted to be in the business side of musicals.
I had come to New York I met with a lot of casting agents and they're like you should be a company manager like your background totally fits it You're managing the whole production So I went back to Australia, met with some producers, and then a year later, I just got a call saying, Hey, there's an opening on Jersey Boys to tour with the show as the company manager.
Are you interested? And so to take on that position, I wasn't able to still run the dance competition. And so I sold that company to Chris, who still runs it today. But that was never, I was never thinking about selling that business. It was just this amazing opportunity and I was like, I can't do both things.
This is my dream job.
[00:10:02] kate: Okay. I love that. So how old were you when you sold Dance Life?
[00:10:04] Clint: Twenty six. Twenty six. Okay. So two
[00:10:07] kate: companies sold before the age of 30. Yeah. And then you, and just like headline, I mentioned this in the intro, but Clint has sold, sold five companies in 21 years. Yeah. He's not even 40 yet.
And I just. Creeping up. I think you're so, you're, you and I are so different and I love how well we get along. We have a lot of things in common, but we are, we operate so differently. Yes. Just so fascinating by how your brain works. But it's interesting because I meet a lot of entrepreneurs who aren't in my industry but are like, they are building to scale and sell.
At what point, if ever, did you start a company that you knew from the beginning that that was the case or has
[00:10:49] Clint: that never happened? It's never happened. I've never started something because I'm like, I'm going to build this thing and sell it. It has to, it has to start. I'm not going to go, there's a gap in the market, I'm going to start a software that does, and I'm like, I'm not interested in that.
Yeah.
[00:11:04] kate: Right. Sounds a bit soul sucking, but I think it works for some people. It does.
[00:11:08] Clint: Totally. I mean, that would be awesome. Totally. There's lots of ideas that I think, I could start this and it'd be worth so much money, but I'm like, I don't want to do that. Right.
[00:11:16] kate: Well, that's what I love about you. You're so clear about what you do and don't want to do, and one of the things that I have admired about you is that you have not gone down the road of monetizing your personality, or your face specifically, at least since I've known you, granted it's only been a couple years.
Right. Maybe not even that long, I don't know. So, I'm curious, when you started DSOA, your most recent venture, Right. Dance Studio Owners Association. Yeah. Did you know from day one, that you wanted to not use the strategy of using a personality to sell it? Or did that happen over time that you transitioned
[00:11:58] Clint: out of doing it?
It came later. Okay. So when I started DSOA, I was really comfortable in the dance studio space. I'd built a following from my other dance businesses in Australia.
And I needed to put my face out there for that, not a huge amount, but people by people, and I needed to put myself out there so people would go, Oh, this guy knows how to build and grow a dance studio. And so at the beginning, that's, that's what I did. And it probably wasn't until a couple of years in that I really started thinking about the longevity of the business.
I knew I couldn't sustain.
I wanted to make sure I built an asset that was valuable because I could have just taken the members on the journey with me of like, now I'm into this and now I'm into this and now I'm into that. And that's a great cashflow business. But I was like, you know what? I'm, I'm building intellectual property.
I'm building an asset outside of me. I should really start thinking about how to integrate other talent into this business so that it doesn't solely require me 24 7, my likeness, my face, my voice, my brain.
[00:13:09] kate: So, was there a part of you ever... Slash still, possibly, that felt scared that someone was going to take this incredible thing that you had created and then come in there and, and not do it well or do it in a way that didn't feel aligned.
And how did you deal with that and sort of prevent. Obviously things are gonna change over time. Evolution is normal and that's good. But like was there any resistance to letting other people in because of a sense of like control or wanting to uphold a specific vibe, values, all of that?
[00:13:47] Clint: Not really.
And I think, I love that. I think, I think the reason was because at the point I started bringing other people in, I'd really recognized that I wasn't the best. It's a person to deliver and create that particular content. So the first person we put in was a Facebook ads coach. And I remember sitting on a call being like, I'd rather be dead than teach this Facebook ads class right now.
And that was the first sign of me being. You need to, you need to bring someone else in. And so I never was like yearning or like wanting to be, keep being the person, or I love the spotlight going on to other people. And that has served us really well in building our talent pool, but also we have great systems and processes.
So, it's like the bumper rails are up when you go bowling and you're not going to land in the gutter. We're not going to let you land in the gutter with the ball because we have the systems, the accountability to make sure that the talent are producing what we need them to produce, that they're getting the results for our members.
And so it's never gone off track. We've had to fire people, people have left but it's, it's never shaken the business.
[00:14:53] kate: So as you were bringing, so first it was the Facebook ads person, then it was somebody to teach
[00:14:59] Clint: what? Then it was someone to do marketing, then it was someone to do in classroom, then it was someone to do leadership, then it was finance.
So we slowly just kept, as we found people, or I came across people, or I hated teaching the thing anymore. That was always the catalyst that brought in kind of the new talent.
[00:15:19] kate: Okay, great. So just for context, Dance Studio Owners Association is a high level coaching program for dance studio owners to come and learn all of these skills so that they can grow their business in proven ways.
And so it's Facebook ads, marketing, leadership, in classroom, these different things that you no longer wanted to teach. So you set yourself free somewhat systematically. By bringing in people to teach stuff that you no longer felt excited
[00:15:45] Clint: about. Yeah, and I think that we created the intellectual property.
So we didn't have to rely on other people's brains all of the time to come up with content. Okay. We had, you know, we have a three year curriculum that we had built out. And so a lot of our coaches, we have expert coaches and then studio growth coaches. Our generalist coaches know the curriculum. And so they're teaching from that.
[00:16:08] kate: Okay, great. And so the vetting process, like what did the vetting process look like maybe in those earlier days when you didn't, maybe you already had the systems and processes, you probably did because you're like that, but like what did it look like, you, I mean you're just not like googling Facebook ads coach on the internet, like, or maybe you were, I don't know, like how did you, That them to make sure that they were free.
[00:16:32] Clint: Sure. Good enough. I mean to be honest with you at the beginning It was like, you know, are you breathing? Do you have a heartbeat? Do you know what a Facebook ad is? Can you actually
[00:16:39] kate: love hearing that because I think in my head obviously, this is an area I struggle Otherwise, I wouldn't be asking so many questions about it.
But like in my head, I think to myself Just to get them up and running and train and whatever it's too hard. I'll just keep doing it myself Which is obviously the kiss of death And so I actually really love hearing that.
[00:17:00] Clint: That's quite relaxing. Yeah, I mean it was. And then as the company, you know, that was I thinking probably about you three or four of the company.
And then as it has grown and more people come in, you know, systems and processes get wrapped around everything. But I'm also I just tap into my intuition and how I feel. I meet someone, I watch a video of them teaching content, and I'm like, Yeah, I think our members would really enjoy them and everything is experimental, right?
Hey, come in and teach a class. They teach it, we get feedback from members, no one comes on as like an expert or a coach, cold. Everyone has had a test run, insight first and is brought in as a guest. And then if it works, we're like, hey, why don't you teach once a month or once a quarter? Okay.
[00:17:45] kate: That's great.
Yeah. And at this point in DSOA, like how, so you're not really delivering, at this point you went from, it was all Clint, delivering everything, to now, what's the scenario?
[00:17:59] Clint: Yeah, so when I sold the company last year, it was at a point where I wasn't required on the delivery side of things to members. So what I love is being able to dip in and say, yeah, I'll run that 30 day planning session or I'll do that 90 day or hey, I really want to talk about X, Y, Z.
But I'm not on the schedule. I don't need to be there. The business isn't dependent on Clint showing up and being the dancing bear. And I, I love that. You know, I love being able to go in when I feel inspired or called to teach or present. But that, that was a three to four year journey. You know, year nine now for DSOA.
And people are like, okay, I'm going to like replace my, and I'm like, no, no, no, you're, you're going to break your business if you go too quickly, but you know, a lot of people are impatient and it is so slow. It is slow and steady because none of us really like change and your members especially don't like change.
If you've been there everything for four years or three years, it's like, here's a new face. The next quarter, here's another new face. But you're not like, all in, and then like, you're gone. Because they will freak out, and they'll leave, and you'll have bad churn. You know. Totally.
[00:19:15] kate: Okay. So, we talked about the dance studio you sold, we talked about Dance Life, and then we talked about DSOA.
There's two other companies in there. Yes.
[00:19:23] Clint: What were those? So, one of them was called Make the World Move. And it was a personal development media, similar to what, how I built Dance Life. It was a media website where we had about two or three new articles go up every single day from about 50 different writers.
And that was monetized through advertising. Okay, cool. And so that was, I think I ran it for maybe a year, and I was like, I hate this business. Like, I didn't like it not good. And I wasn't into it. Yeah. So I was like, yeah, I'll, you know, I put it on Flipper or something. Sold. It wasn't a huge amount of money.
Okay. What's Flipper? Flipper is a great marketplace for online businesses. Oh, cool. Yeah, it's super good now. Love it. But back then it was still good. So someone found it, paid some money for it, continued it for a little while, I think maybe three or four years, and then shut it down. Right. And then Dance Lee was the preschool dance program.
That we created a few years ago, and so I sold that and I sold D S O A to the, to the same company owners. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
[00:20:23] kate: So what if, if somebody's listening and they have a business now and they sense that perhaps selling it might be for them someday. Yeah. What are a few of the things that they should be thinking about in terms of creating a sellable asset?
Yeah, great question. Versus something that they have to run.
[00:20:43] Clint: Yeah. And I've looked at a lot of companies to invest in or acquire over the last couple of years. And the biggest thing is they're also founder dependent. And we've touched on this already is if I took you out of the business for a month, what would happen?
And you can do an audit of your time and see where you're spending your time and who needs to take over responsibilities and tasks, but you actually need to build a business because no one is going to acquire you. If it's you doing everything and so that's the first thing that's what you've got to start working on and again, it's slow and steady It's like okay, let's create a 12 month plan and in the first 90 days I'm gonna let go of this and we're gonna hide this person Then we're gonna get let go of this and we're gonna hide this person The fear that people have is their profit takes a little bit of a nosedive during this period because it's not all your money anymore.
Like, you've got to employ these people, but you're creating an asset that you can sell. Because no one's going to buy a business if you don't have a team to execute on what your service or product is. So first and foremost, like, that's... That's what you'd need to do. That's assuming you've got a business that's working.
That's assuming that you're Right. Don't do this if you don't know your product works and no one wants it. You need to make sure that your service and product is working. It's generating revenue. You've got a good profit margin. You've built a sustainable business model. Then it's about scaling it. And that's when it is all about the people, the systems, the process.
For most people, the really boring stuff. Because it's not creative, it's not exciting, it's not energizing. It's what needs to happen to be able to build something that someone else sees value in. But is that exciting
[00:22:28] kate: for you?
[00:22:28] Clint: Yeah, I mean, I love, I love that. Yeah. I love that.
[00:22:30] kate: Because you, you work with people on
[00:22:33] Clint: scaling.
Right, this, this process and I, I, I love it. I find it fascinating on how do you take something and how do you, and how do you grow it? Through people, through systems. But most founders... Don't want to do that. Right. To your point, it's too hard. I don't want to train the person. I might as well do it myself.
Or like some people want that business where their business evolves with them. Yeah. That's my business. That's your business. And it really works. It's fantastic. Yeah. So you have to identify that because I think some people as well get really caught up now in like the selling the acquiring, but I'm like, if, if that's not what you want, don't be crazy.
Like do the thing that brings you joy. Personal brands are amazing for the right person that wants to run a personal brand. Yes,
[00:23:20] kate: and what makes you the wrong person for that?
[00:23:23] Clint: Oh, so many things.
[00:23:26] kate: Not the wrong person, I honestly think you'd be amazing at it, but what makes you not want
[00:23:30] Clint: to do that? I, even at the early days of DSOA, like me being in front of a camera and sharing my life, and it's, it's in a slightly uncontrolled environment.
And I love showing up and teaching where I have prepped and I have slides and I have built my models and my systems that brings me a lot of joy, but just like showing up and being like, Hey guys, it's a Monday. Like, no, I don't want to do that. I don't want to do that. And I love you do it so well. I was just saying, I love, you know, I followed like 12 people on Instagram.
Kate's one of them. I love the journey that she takes us on. And I. But that's just not me. I'd much rather be on a call with team, figuring out things, working on profitability, working on scaling programs or products or, like, that's my happy place. I love that. And if I never had to show up again on camera, I'd be incredibly happy.
But I love Yes. Except for on your podcast. I wouldn't do this for many people. Except for on your podcast. And, and teaching. I love teaching. I love
[00:24:33] kate: teaching. And you're a brilliant teacher because you do think in systematic ways. And not everybody is, a lot of people have knowledge, not everyone's a good teacher.
So what do you think the qualities are that you have that make you an effective teacher?
[00:24:50] Clint: I would say the first thing is I love sharing what I'm learning. So as soon as I learn something, I want to tell like a hundred people. Yes. I love that. Yes. That's awesome. I, I love it. I, you know, have ran some different masterclasses and I, I love.
Pulling together the knowledge. I love the research. I'm a 5 on the Enneagram. So I'm a massive researcher. You really are. So many rabbit holes. And I love compiling all of that and putting it together and then sharing it. That is something that brings me a lot of joy. So, from a teaching standpoint, I mean, there's 5's that are not great.
They have all the information, but they don't kind of articulate it or get it across in a way that is digestible. I... I've just studied how to be a great teacher and different models and I love all of that stuff.
[00:25:40] kate: So as you were building DSOA with all of your intellectual property in this three years of curriculum that you walk people through, did you at times change the way that was being taught based on kind of the current research or based on working with experts or consultants in terms of how people do learn best.
Because as we know, in a membership model, if people aren't getting results, like they're not going to stick around. So what were some of the things that you implemented so that you could increase the results that your members were getting? through your
[00:26:14] Clint: teaching style? Yeah, great question. For us, it's mostly been about cutting out a lot of the fluff and really looking at an hour masterclass and the workbook and being like, okay, we don't need three quarters of this.
This is the bit. When we ask people in our surveys and our evaluations what delivered you the best result and they say this thing, it's like, okay, let's, we just need to teach them that. And so we've done a lot of that. Shorter videos, instead of 60 minutes, they're like 15 minutes. Or 10 minutes, or they're broken up.
They're more digestible. We now have a podcast, just for our members. Because they want to listen on the go, when they're taking their kids to school, or on the way to the studio. Some people love the video, and so we got the video. Some people love the live call. It's, it's really paying attention to how people want to learn.
Five or six years ago, I would say you dictate how you want to do it, and they've got to, they've got to fit in. That doesn't work anymore. If you're still doing, well, this is the only way that I do it. I mean, you're going to lose people. Someone was asking me a question the other day about, oh, where do you place your content?
And I was like, I will put it on the moon if that's where they want to watch it. Right? Like, I will put it, I will put it in all the places. Their membership site, their Facebook group, their podcast, I will put it wherever they want to consume it because the goal is results. And so that has shifted because I used to be a stickler for this is how you
watch it.
[00:27:45] kate: So smart though. So smart to meet people where they are. And your ideal customer is actually quite different than you are. So it's very common in our industry for people to be marketing and serving an ideal customer who's them, or them a few years ago. You're not. You're not. You were a dance studio owner, so obviously that part, but like, most of your customers are women, most of them are moms, most of them are living...
In non urban areas, is that true? Yeah. Yeah, okay, so it's like pretty different. Yes. And so, how did you bridge that gap between your own experience and your ideal customer's experience to fill in all the stuff that you probably wouldn't know because you're not them?
[00:28:30] Clint: Great. It is all about feedback.
It's all feedback from them. So we send out two or three evaluations every year. We run small focus groups. We are feedback junkies. You really are. Oh, yeah. I love, I love feedback on everything. Yeah, because Like the best ideas that we've ever executed really in any of my businesses have always come from customers I'll be sitting on a call and I'll say to the team you guys shouldn't be making this decision because none of you own a dance studio Let's go to our coaches.
Let's go to our captains. Let's get feedback from the people that we're actually Providing this service to we don't have to create in a vacuum and we shouldn't Right if you're teaching something and you're no longer at the point of your customer talk to your customers. They love you They want you to be awesome.
They want your products and service to be awesome. Just talk to them
[00:29:20] kate: I love this so much and I think it's part of your secret sauce I don't hear people talking about getting feedback in the way that you do you do it for every guest speaker who comes in. You do it for all of the coaches. You do it for all of the lessons.
[00:29:32] Clint: You do it for every call. Every single call that happens in the inner circle, we put a, we put a link to the feedback form. Okay. So we are getting hundreds of pieces of feedback. All the time. Every single call.
[00:29:44] kate: And you've trained your customers that this is part of the deal. I am curious in the earlier days, did you ever struggle with getting the feedback?
Did you incentivize people? Because I, this is not something I struggle with. Actually, people love giving me feedback and I love getting it. But I hear from people, I'm asking people for feedback, I'm not getting it. So what, did
[00:30:06] Clint: you struggle with that? No, and the reason is because people won't give you feedback if they've given feedback before and you haven't made any changes.
Okay. So if you keep asking for feedback and don't do anything with it, they're gonna just stop giving you feedback. And so for us, the best feedback we get is when they're like, I don't have anything because you fixed everything I gave you last time. And I'm like, Oh, awesome, because they know we actually do something with their feet.
They feel heard. They feel validated. They do. And we, and we talk them through it, right? If we're making a change or a shift, we actually say, Hey, 70 percent of you mentioned that you really love this. And so we're going to keep this and we're going to put more resources into it. 15 percent of you say that you attend this call, which isn't enough.
So we're getting rid of that call and we're going to spend more time on X, Y, Z. So we tell them the narrative around what's changing and what's shifting. And it's all. Based. It's,
[00:30:59] kate: yeah, and it's based on data. So you're actually sharing with them the reason. So there's less of, if they don't agree with that change, if they're in the smaller percentages that doesn't want the change, if they're saying, well, 70 percent of everybody else does, then they can sort of feel
[00:31:12] Clint: like, okay.
Exactly. And I was saying to the team the other week, I was like, guys, these decisions are based too much around feeling, and I need data. Yeah. Like, how many people are attending the calls? What is the percentage? What is the feedback? Because we're making assumptions. Without looking at the data, which we have plenty
[00:31:28] kate: of.
Was there ever a time, because you already mentioned using your intuition, and I know you are guided by your own curiosity and intuition in a lot of ways. So was there ever a time where you had the feedback was saying one thing, but your intuition was saying another thing, and you had to negotiate between the two?
I
[00:31:47] Clint: think it has happened quite a lot. Okay. Which one do you go with? I'll always go with my intuition. Okay. Yeah. I will always go with my intuition because sometimes I feel like I know what they need more than they know themselves. I think that that happens. And understanding what side of the fence you're on is important.
Is this an ego decision? Am I doing this because I want to be like the hero or is this something that they actually need that is going to help them? It's always and as the team has grown, I, I encourage everyone to tap into their intuition, but I'm also sometimes like, that's just wrong, right? Like that's, I hear you, I appreciate you, but that's not what they need right now.
So it's, it's a, it's an interesting balance and a negotiation around those things. One of
[00:32:37] kate: the things I admire about you as a leader in your company, of course I've never worked with you, but I hear you talking about it, so I'm assuming you're telling the truth, is you seem to be a direct communicator and not adding in any fluff.
Right. If somebody, and it seems to me that you're actually just like that, and maybe you always were, but correct me if I'm wrong, I'm curious if somebody's working on their own communication skills in leadership, especially delivering information that maybe feels hard to tell somebody, what are any tips that you might have for them for getting better
[00:33:10] Clint: at it?
Being honest, so I think often we don't communicate enough with our team and you know, for me, great example, I was looking at something the other day of a video, a team member had recorded an onboarding video and it wasn't great. And I said, Hey, and we're very honest with each other. And my, my message to her was like, Hey, just watch the video.
I feel like I'm watching like a corporate sexual harassment video. I was like, you are fun. You are engaging. You are amazing. Where is that? I want to see. I want to see that. She wrote back. Totally. I see that. So great. Just honest. And I'm not going to wait for a one on one call and I'm not going to say, Hey, can we have a conversation?
I'm, I'm going to, sometimes I will write things. Sometimes it will need to be a, a verbal conversation that we have, but they're honest with me and I'm honest with them. And it is always the same consistent, continual communication, the three C's. We have it all the time. And so that makes it really easy.
Because people put off hard conversations, and the situation gets worse and worse and worse. Until three months later and you have the conversation and everyone's like angry and frustrated. Yeah. And you can, you could have just had a conversation. Is it fun? No, but it, it's part of the job. Like if you're a CEO, Yeah.
If you're a manager or a director, like, you've got to communicate and... Voice your feedback.
[00:34:38] kate: And, and like you said, doing it more often, where it's part of the company culture, then doesn't make that one conversation so heavy, or such a big deal, because it's just like, we, we're honest here, we breathe here, we, you know, whatever, like it's just part
[00:34:52] Clint: of the deal.
Right, and if you, and, and then, you have conversations with people depending on how they react, right? I know with that staff member, I can be that direct. Totally. With others, I can be honest, But I wouldn't have sent it in a message, I would have had a conversation about it. And so I know, you have to know your team.
I'm not approaching everyone the same way.
[00:35:15] kate: That makes total sense. So switching directions a little bit, one of the things I love about you that I've discovered over time is how systematic you are, not only in your business, but also in your life. So I have discovered you have specific ways of doing certain things.
Yes. Friction. Yes. Can you tell me about a few of those? And I'll prompt you if you forget, but I think you know what they are. Like, what are the decisions that you have pre-made in your life so that you have freed up your time and energy
[00:35:46] Clint: for other things? Yeah, so I'm, I'm a big fan of frictionless living.
I, you know, if I need to put a fridge in my office, so I don't need up, get up to get water, I'm gonna do that if I, so some of the examples, so I literally wear the same clothes every day. This is facts. I have five of these. If we're walking,
[00:36:04] kate: he's in a walking outfit. If we're going out to lunch or it's the same or dinner.
The It's the same. It's the same. And if you're dressed up for the theater or for a speaking gig, it's the same. Same outfit's. The, yeah, so there's like outfit. I've seen three outfit you in outfit. Three different outfits. Outfit, yes.
[00:36:14] Clint: I have three outfits. and I have multiple, like I have five of the, I just threw one out.
Yeah. So I have four now. I have four of these shirts. Right. They had a hole, so I had to get a new one. Yeah, totally. I wear the same shoes. I have like three pairs of these shoes sitting in my cupboard for when they run out. I, I, I don't like to have to make those types of decisions every day. I don't want to think about what am I going to wear today?
What am I going to eat? What type of Uber am I going to take? Right? I always take an Uber Black. That is just the standard. That's why I like you to pick me up. Yes. I always say to you up.
[00:36:47] kate: It makes me feel fancy
[00:36:48] Clint: every time. And I want to be in a black SUV car. No, you just like it. So I'm going to get the
[00:36:55] kate: Uber.
So one thing also, so Friction Free Living With your outfits. Do you eat the same thing every day?
[00:37:00] Clint: No, so we have a meal service that gets delivered every day. But so
[00:37:04] kate: you still don't have to think about it. No. But you're not, because I do know some people, actually my therapist, I love this about her. She eats the same thing, like, three meals a day.
I love that. And not forever, but for a season. That's just like what she
[00:37:18] Clint: eats. I have done that. Look at you! I have done like the oatmeal every morning
[00:37:22] kate: for like six months. And then she's just not having any thinking about that. Yeah. It's tricky for me, I'm a 7 Enneagram, I live for variety, so that gets a little hard.
But this is why I'm also fascinated by it. Okay, so friction free living that way. Another thing is that you are very specific about what lights you up in terms of spending money on it, and where it literally doesn't move the needle at all in terms of your joy and quality of living. I have several questions about that.
A, was there a particular time, or a book, or a teacher, or something that turned you on to the idea that, like, we shouldn't just spend our money on things that other people seem to deem important? Or has this
[00:38:07] Clint: always been how you've been? I don't think so. I think I've always been, I've always spent money on experiences and travel.
As soon as I had money, that's what it went to. And, and I don't, I think it's been enforced over the years. I don't think it was a catalyst through a book or a show. You know, as I read through psychology of money, or I will teach you to be rich, or they all essentially align with how I want to live my life.
Yeah. From a financial standpoint, which is, I will not spend any time thinking about dropping lots of money on a first class flight, or an Uber Black, or a front row at a concert. But, you know, buying a shirt that's like 100, I will not buy the shirt that's 100.
[00:38:58] kate: Fascinating. Fascinating. Yes. And at, like, was there a time that you actually itemized that, like really got clear where you cleaned up your spending and you were like, actually I'm spending money over here, not bringing me joy or, or was there a time when you and your partner had to negotiate?
differences in terms of your values around money? No,
[00:39:21] Clint: I, I, you know, I use Tila, which is great. It's I love it. So, Tiller is essentially a Google spreadsheet, but it's an app, and it brings in all of your accounts, and your investments and everything, and you see where you're, I reconcile it every Monday, and I see where everything's going, and I have a budget for the month, and So that has been helpful to create more transparency around.
And is it like
[00:39:47] kate: t I L l E R? Yes. Because Australians the accent. Yeah. Tiller. Yes, tiller. If you're American, if you're American tiller,
[00:39:54] Clint: like, like, like in a boat, I have no, no idea. But I would say, say yes. Yes. If I was in a boat, I would
[00:40:00] kate: know if you also grew up, up sailing wooden historical boats, which is like, you would know really random.
You wouldn't, that's the tiller anyway. Tiller. Okay. Cool. I love that. That's, so you're at the helm. Yeah. So smart from a branding perspective. Okay. Yes. So you kind of look through that. You're very conscious of where your money is going on a weekly basis. Right. And you know that it goes towards experiences, travel, luxury travel, taking an Uber black car, picking up your friend Kate.
Going to see a musical. Yes. Whatever it's gonna be. Yes. Going to see Kelly Clarkson in Vegas. Yes.
[00:40:36] Clint: Yeah. Not with me, with Alex, but still. Yes. All of those great, lots of people have been touring this year, so the budget was inflated. I know. Same. That largely inspired by you. I wouldn't, I wouldn't take any of it back.
Like, you'll never be able to relive that exact moment at live music and the dinner before and the dancing and... And part
[00:40:58] kate: of it's the anticipation too, right? Yes! The data actually shows us that we get as much, if not more, joy from the anticipation of an event as we do from the event itself. For sure.
[00:41:09] Clint: Something to look forward to. It's a whole thing. Why wouldn't you spend money on that?
[00:41:13] kate: Yeah, if you've got it, why not, right? If you've got it, go for it. And I know, you know, I know for some people, like, actually a handbag really does it for them. Actually a fancy car really does it for them. I know that's not your thing,
[00:41:24] Clint: but music, like I, I remember being, there was a movie called now and then do
[00:41:31] kate: I know that movie?
It was literally the, that soundtrack was the soundtrack of my tween years. I love it. So three times on the,
[00:41:41] Clint: I love that soundtrack and I visited the same record store every week for two months until I had 30 to buy it. Oh my god. So, you know, I think. This is why we're friends. Yeah. I love that. I mean, that.
So I think about now, like, oh, I have money for concerts and Uber Blacks, but that has always been important to me. Yes. You know, like saving money, you know, Disney on ice. Right. Saving for two years. It
[00:42:07] kate: doesn't have to be expensive. Right. Or whatever. Right. Expensive is relative.
[00:42:10] Clint: But it's, it's the things that bring you, like, absolute joy.
Yeah. And really tapping into that and being honest about it. Being really honest about, well, this brings me joy, and I'm working, and I'm doing things so that I can afford to do this, or, or go there, and being okay, like, if someone is like, oh, let's go on a holiday to X, Y, Z, and you're like, I don't want to go there, like, you just say no, you know, like.
[00:42:36] kate: Well, you have such a strong sense of self in that way, like, you don't have FOMO. I don't think, it does not appear that you have FOMO. Like it's just like, if a, if a great thing is happening with a bunch of your friends and whatever, like you're not like, Oh, I need to, I'm going to miss something. So was that always how you have been or was there, like, have you developed that inner sense of like, I'm actually my own best company?
I mean, you're obviously an introvert, so that's part of it, but like, has that gotten more so as you've gotten older? That feeling of like, I'm not ever going to miss out
[00:43:10] Clint: on anything. I think, I think it has. You know, only child, introvert, love my own company. Like just love having my own space. Oh, it's divine.
It is. And so fun, and I love my partner, and I love our dogs. I love my friends. But there's something about that quiet freedom of just sitting in like alone time. With a book or listening to a podcast or just like lying on the couch, you know, it's, it's magnificent.
[00:43:43] kate: I love it sounds like it's like one of the best parts of your
[00:43:45] Clint: life.
It's amazing. Yeah. I really enjoy it. And I've always been like that. And what do you
[00:43:51] kate: do to protect
[00:43:52] Clint: that time? So you know, we don't, we don't have any children, which is a blessing. It's an excellent time protector because I hang around other people's children and I'm like, Oh wow. Like this is. This is amazing for 30 minutes, but 24 seven that would be, even when we got Annie, our dog, I, there was a shift and so we, we really, I really had to make sure that we have dog kingdom where Annie goes when we need a rest.
And you know, if Alex, my partner is out somewhere, I'm like, Hey, can we put her in for the weekend? Cause you're going to be out and I need, I need a day. Yeah. And so I'm really cautious with my calendar and I'm getting better at making sure that I'm not too hectic and busy during the week so that I have space.
So if I'm like going out for lunch or I'm doing something, I'm not going to do anything else that day. Right. It's like one big event thing. Yes. It's going to take a lot. I'm going to love it. It's going to take a lot out of me. And then I need to, like, not talk to anyone for four hours. Yeah. It's so good to know yourself.
It's good to know yourself, and it's good to approve of yourself, and appreciate that, because I have occasionally felt guilty when someone has been like, Well, you don't want to come to this, or you don't want to go to that, or you haven't been showing up for me in this way. And I'm like, Oh, I feel... bad Sometimes and as I've gotten older I'm more comfortable in saying like this is who I am and It's a no.
Yeah, absolutely
[00:45:36] kate: And honestly, like if there are people in our lives who are wanting us to be fundamentally different than who we are They're probably not a great fit. Yes, and you seem pretty choosy about your friends Yes. And I'm curious what, what are some of the qualities for you that as a super introvert, as someone who really, in many ways, prefers his own company.
Right, yes.
[00:46:02] Clint: That's true. Yeah, no, I mean, it's just good
[00:46:04] kate: to be honest. What makes it worth it for you to want to invest in a relationship because you are, as a friend, a very good friend? Like you take it seriously. I do.
[00:46:14] Clint: And I take it very seriously and I don't have capacity to do that for many people. And I want it to feel, you know, in a friendship, I want it to feel like delicious and joyful, but honest.
And, as I've gotten older I've, I've become more clear on who are the types of people I want to be around, but all of my friends are very different. And I, I love that. I love that diversity. I'm also great one on one, but I'm, I hate being in groups. Yeah. And so I'm very cautious around that as well as like, nothing will light me up more than a one on one lunch or a dinner.
And then as it gets bigger, I'm. . I'm like, not as, I don't enjoy it as much. Yeah. 'cause I like the connection and the conversation. I don't like the did you see that? Did you see the Kardashians last week? I don't, I don't, I I mean, Kardashians are awesome. , I love the Kardashians, but when I'm investing my time, I, I want to have like a really, yeah.
Not a, not a super, doesn't need to be deep and traumatic, but I want like a, just a really lovely experience. And I know what I'm getting with each of my friends. Yeah, so
[00:47:36] kate: good. Okay, so you wrote this essay about being rich, not famous. Yes. And I'm very curious, so many people conflate the two. Mm. Was there ever a time when you conflated fame with money?
And if so, how did you unravel that? And if not, obviously just say no.
[00:47:59] Clint: I think there probably, I think there probably has been times, especially with this last business. Because, you know, with DSOA, in the coaching world, everyone is putting themselves out there consistently. And, I knew what I was doing was working.
We had the data, we kind of knew that it was working. But, if I didn't have my blinders on, and that's why also I don't follow a lot of people. I don't, I, I get very anxious. This usually happens on a Sunday. If I'm hanging out on a Sunday and I'm spending more time on social media, I get quite anxious and I'm, 'cause I'm seeing all the things that everyone is doing, and there's a part of me that I've always had to wrestle with, which is the, the, the c e o, the entrepreneur versus the talent.
And I, I, I, I battle that, you know, I battle that. And so, There are those times, the fame piece, which I think more of like the front facing, the talent, the personality, I, I go between, I, I can do that and I love it from a teaching perspective, but I love the running and the systems and the processes. And at the end of the day, like that, that will always win.
Yeah. But it, it does feel like a tug of war, so I can get sucked into... And there'll be a day where I, like, make this whole plan about me building a personal brand. And then the next day I'm like, I don't want to do that. And then a month, you know, a couple of months later it'll probably pop up again.
I'll be like, but I could do this and I could be like that. And my friends will say to me, like, you'd be so good. And you, and then I'm like, I can do that. And then I'm like, but I don't want to do that. Because it
[00:49:39] kate: is rare to be somebody who, Who both has the brain for the systems and the logistics like you do, and also has the talent to be that front facing person.
Not that many people, I think, have both. So to have that internal tension, it's just important to acknowledge, and I have like a hair stuck to my lip. This is great. So distracting. Okay. So it's good to acknowledge that you have both of those, but know which one's gonna win for you. Yes. Because it's the most tied to your joy.
And it sounds like, correct me if I'm wrong, that for you, having the freedom is more important to you than having the recognition and the visibility.
[00:50:23] Clint: Oh yeah. I don't, I, I've never, we all need recognition. I love it when someone says, Great job. That was awesome. I love that class that you ran. I love that.
It likes me up and I'm like, oh good. That was a good, that was a good thing. But that, I don't thrive from that. You know, I thrive as you've identified. I love the freedom and flexibility. If I had to show up every day, like on social media or create content, like that, none of that brings me joy. I really wish it did because I reckon it'd be awesome.
But I'm like, nah, I like being behind my computer and talking to my people and working stuff out and thinking up and creating. I'm still incredibly creative. Yes. And as I had built DSOA, the creative piece had kind of fallen to the side a little bit. And so I, I love creating things and so that, that's been important as well.
[00:51:20] kate: So here you are, before the age of 40, you have a lot of financial freedom and flexibility. You have a partner you love, you have an adorable dog, even though sometimes she has to go to doggy daycare. Yes, she does. And, and you know, sooner rather than later, you're going to have an incredibly clear schedule.
More so and so as you know as the transition plan is enacted, so I'm curious What are some of your next ambitions? What are some of your next dreams? What are you thinking about for this next chapter of your life?
[00:51:51] Clint: Every business that I've sold I've never had the next thing in mind And a lot of people will tell you, don't do that.
If you're selling your business, make sure you've got your next thing so you don't, you know, get addicted to cocaine or something, right? I feel like that's not going to happen with
[00:52:07] kate: you.
[00:52:07] Clint: Well, I have a very addictive personality, so I have to be cautious but I'm pretty confident that that... Keep the coke away from the client.
Keep the coke away. But it's, it's... For me, I want the space, I want the blank canvas. To then create the next thing or create the next multiple things and With this freedom, which is so wonderful Also is the Achilles heel of having so much freedom and a list of yesterday I think I added the 45th or 46th idea of like things I'd be interested in doing and you have a actual list That's a list
[00:52:45] kate: in my notebook in your notebook of yeah a section that just says like It's called
[00:52:50] Clint: Ideas.
It's
[00:52:51] kate: called Ideas. It's called Ideas. And, and you actually know you have
[00:52:53] Clint: 46 of them. Yes, 46. I added, I can't, what did I add yesterday? I can't remember what it was. I added something and there's like random stuff. There's like, be a mystery shopper for luxury hotels. Fun! There's like create a one man show using Lady Gaga's music around someone's life.
Like, there's. There's like incredibly like sharp right turn ideas and there's like, oh, this makes sense for Clint with what he's done previously. But I love the dreaming and all of them are in phase zero, nothing has happened or in like phase one or phase two where I'm just exploring. And it is hard, some days it's very hard to not have like a thing that I'm pursuing.
Most of the time though it's wonderful to have multiple things that I'm just dreaming about or thinking through. How fun. And that's the creative piece as well. Yeah. Because I've missed that. Yeah,
[00:53:52] kate: that's clear. I've missed that. And you are massively satisfying that urge. And I also love that you're not putting pressure on yourself.
I try
[00:53:59] Clint: not to. Okay. It sounds very like, oh and you're not putting pressure. 70 percent of the time I'm not, 30 percent of the time I am. What are you doing with your life? Like, you know, I have those conversations. I'm sure.
[00:54:12] kate: Do you ever have a time when there's so much open space, or even when you're imagining the open space, where it gets...
Either overwhelming or depressing.
[00:54:22] Clint: Yes! I mean, I remember texting you being like, I have so much time, I'm selling stuff on Facebook Marketplace. Oh yeah! You did say that! So there have been pockets. There have definitely been pockets. Which is so
[00:54:34] kate: silly,
[00:54:35] Clint: but amazing also. It was amazing, met some great people.
You know, like it was a really interesting experience. And wanted some of my stuff to go to people to use. So it was fun. But it lasted for like two days. So yes, there are definitely pockets of time, not overwhelmed but, but definitely in just this kind of slump, right, of just like, Oh, so like, what am I going to do today?
[00:55:00] kate: Right. Cause there is some element of like, when we're working on something and actively engaged in growing something, it does give us that sense of like, Okay, like I'm gonna whatever. Yeah. But there's also something so beautiful about giving yourself permission to have the space and not just jump from one thing to the next thing to the next thing and never have that moment.
Right,
[00:55:21] Clint: and it has become easier as the time goes on since the sale. Yeah. It's, at the beginning there was just a lot of activity in the transition, then it kind of flattened out a little bit, and so just really appreciating the space because I'm like when am I gonna have, space again. And being okay with it.
And some days I'm okay with it and some days I'm not. And some days... The, the poisonous word of potential will jump into my head of like, you've got so much potential you can, you know, and if you watch crazy people on YouTube talking about, you know, working 80 hours a week and like, you can do it and you, and, and I have to not, I have to pull myself out.
I was listening to an interview yesterday, I got five minutes in like, this is not going to be good for my mental health. That is so good to
[00:56:14] kate: know that. So good to know that. Okay. Thank you. What, if you could go back and give 16 year old or 18 year old Clint advice or wisdom about money, what would you tell him?
[00:56:30] Clint: I would tell myself that when you earn money, you don't have to spend it all. And I learned that lesson in my mid twenties. When I had Dance Life, I think I had like 50, 000 in the bank. And so I just started, I decided to start a boy band. I invested in creating this corporate gig boy band and spent all the money flying people in and auditioning them.
And it was a great process, but I got money and I spent it. And that was a wonderful, after that, I was like, that wasn't a, that wasn't a good idea. I didn't need to spend it because I had it. And that really started teaching me about saving money, and, and having cash, and then starting, you know, to do small investments, and then larger investments.
And, I used to just invest everything back into the business, because I, like, somehow was like justifying, Oh, but I'm putting it back in the business. And then I learned when I started DSOA, I really got switched on to profit margin. And understanding P& Ls and balance sheets. And that really, really helped me have a healthier relationship with money.
So great.
[00:57:51] kate: So great. And finally, what does the word plenty mean to you, or how does it make you feel?
[00:57:58] Clint: Oh, I love, plenty for me is, means I'm full. I'm full, I'm full of joy, I'm full with friendships, I'm full with love, I'm full with money. I, I, I love it all. Plenty is about having an abundance of, of joy in your life.
Thank
[00:58:19] kate: you, Clint. Thank you, Kay. You're the best. So much fun. Thank you for being here. Thank you for sharing your You found of wisdom. I really I love learning from you. I love hanging out with you. Thank you for taking the time. Thank you. So if people want to connect with you or learn more about what you're doing, I understand that that's not really your gig because you are
[00:58:39] Clint: about being rich, not famous.
But how might they connect or learn more? I wrote an essay, Eight Lessons to Become Rich, Not Famous. And it talks about how I've scaled and sold five companies. If you go to my Instagram, Clint Salter, you won't see anything there, but in the link, you'll see a link to that essay. You don't have to opt in, it's a Google Doc.
But, but say hello. I will definitely talk to you if you send me a message. So
[00:59:05] kate: generous. Thank you. And of course we will link that in the show notes as well. Thanks, Kate. Thank you, Clint. Thank you so much for listening in to this episode of Plenty. Isn't Clint amazing? He's adorable. He's funny. He is wise.
He is successful, and I am just so happy that you listened in with us. So if you liked this episode, please share it, subscribe, leave us a review. That's how more people find out about this information, and that's how we spread Plenty in the world. Thank you for being here, and I'll see you for the next episode.