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Dan Hope and Andy Anders of Eleven Warriors bring you inside the Ohio State beat every Wednesday with a podcast covering everything you need to know about the Buckeyes.
Note: This transcript was AI-generated and has not been edited for errors.
[Dan Hope]
Welcome into Real Pod Wednesdays, Dan Hope, joined by Andy Anders and by a very special guest this week as Gene Smith, who is now in his final two weeks as Ohio State's Athletic Director, is joining us one more time here on the show. Gene, has it sunk in yet that your time as Ohio State's Athletic Director is almost over?
[Gene Smith]
My wife and I, Sheila, we haven't had any second thoughts about retirement since we announced it. So that's a good sign. But yeah, it's sunk in, you know, my office is, you know, all the walls are cleared off now and our movers are coming.
So it's all, it's all right in front of us.
[Andy Anders]
Is there anything that scares you about, you know, leaving the working world, I suppose, after so long?
[Gene Smith]
Not really, Andy. I mean, I'm, you know, I'm very comfortable. My wife is a good planner, fortunately, and we have a good plan.
My mentors have shared to me that I just can't go turkey. So I'm looking forward to staying in the business a little bit in a certain way, but I have to do something. So I'm on the Fiesta Bowl board, which will keep me heavily involved in the industry.
And so I'm not really scared. I'm looking forward to golfing and hiking and being around the grandkids.
[Dan Hope]
I imagine that we'll probably still see you back in Columbus from time to time.
[Gene Smith]
Not a whole lot, though, Dan, you know, I'm gonna come back, I think, for the Iowa game. But otherwise, not really. You know, I'm gonna catch the team on the West Coast, you know, we're moving to Arizona.
So I'm gonna catch the team when they come out to UCLA or USC or something of that nature. Different teams, but if my schedule allows. But otherwise, I'm probably not gonna come back to Columbus a lot for athletic events.
I'll probably come back a couple, a few times to play with my golf partners next summer. But that'll be about it.
[Dan Hope]
Are you looking forward to just kind of sitting at home and watching the Buckeyes on TV?
[Gene Smith]
Yeah, I am. Actually, I'm moving to Arizona, Paradise Valley. So there's a Buckeye-owned bar called Bottled Blonde.
So I'll be at the Bottled Blonde on some occasions, but largely at home. I'm looking forward to it and be able to, you know, crack a beer and watch the game and be relaxed.
[Andy Anders]
You obviously have had a close relationship with Ryan, you know, since hiring him and working close with him the past five plus years. Well, as you're sitting there, you know, drinking a beer, will it be weird kind of that distance and seeing him operate on game day, you know, as sort of from more of an outside perspective?
[Gene Smith]
Yeah, you know, it will be slightly weird not being there to go down to the sidelines if one of the players get injured or or to watch him perform and then be able to have, you know, the impromptu meetings that we've had on Sundays or even the Friday meetings pregame. Always met with him in an informal, casual way on Friday morning. So I will actually miss that Friday morning more than anything.
I'll miss being at the games and being there to support my teammates who are running the operations for for everything, but also just being there to support that. That's that's something that is I'm going to have to wean myself from over time.
[Dan Hope]
You mentioned earlier this offseason that you went all in to help football try to win a championship this year. What made it so important for you to do that?
[Gene Smith]
Well, I think one week, you know, we really had to get our way back. As both of you know, we were winning Big Ten championships on a pretty consistent basis. Which catapulted us into the old BCS, ultimately CFP process.
So we got to get back to that. We got to get back to winning championships. And now this new system with the expansion and then the new system, you know, we're going to probably unless we fall flat on our faces, we're going to probably be in.
The question is where in? And so, you know, if you're able to fortunately win the Big Ten championship, then you're likely going to get a buy. So we just got to get back to that.
And so I felt like what what other things could we do to invest in football, particularly in my last year, I could make some decisions and, you know, the bullets can can fly at me around those decisions and we just go all in.
[Andy Anders]
When you say, you know, bullets flying at you around those decisions, are you saying it gave you sort of more freedom knowing that your retirement was coming up to be a little more bold and maybe whether it's NIL strategy, whatever it may be to kind of enable this push for football?
[Gene Smith]
Yeah, it was more around the salaries of coaches, you know, and I won't go into details about who we may have lost if we didn't up their salaries or those type of things. And obviously getting a chip to Kelly at that level of a salary was significant. And then investment in facilities, you know, normally I would have been more conservative around what we did in the Woody Hayes.
Most people don't know that that's an older building. And every year we try and make it look nice. And you guys have been in there, you know, painting and lighting and, you know, some graphics, things of that nature.
But, you know, we redid the entire locker room. You know, we did we did the entire aquatics area. You know, we carpeted the entire facility.
Normally I would have done different pieces of it. We replaced two fields, two turf fields outdoors. So normally I would have cascaded that over time and not as been as impactful to the budget.
But I felt like, OK, we're going to get all this done and make sure that football has what it needs to be successful from most people. That's where the players live. That's where the coaches work all day, every day.
And you guys see it because you're there every Tuesday after a game. So I just wanted to go all in. And that was probably something that I normally would not have done.
[Dan Hope]
When you think about watching those games at home, do you have that last weekend of November circled on your calendar?
[Gene Smith]
Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know, we've got the family going to be there.
And, you know, I'm all excited about that for sure. You know, I'm just excited about all of them, but really excited about that one. What is going to be cool for me, Dan, is I like you guys.
I know all the kids, you know, so I know all the kids and, you know, I want to see, you know, some of the young puppies play early. You know, I'm hopeful that we have games where those those backups can get in. That's going to be really cool for me to watch.
But certainly that November game is circled.
[Andy Anders]
Switching gears to basketball for a second, you know, obviously Ross was the one who hired Jake, but you knew him well from his time as an assistant. Do you feel personal investment in his success, too, even though you didn't make that hire, maybe advised on it, though?
[Gene Smith]
Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly right. Well said.
I mean, I did advise on it and obviously appointed him the interim that gave him the platform to, you know, kind of a resume builder, so to speak, and an interview opportunity. And he did exceptionally well, not just the wins that we were fortunate to have. You know, the Purdue win was huge.
The Michigan State win was huge. But how he handled the team and the energy and the engagement with the fans. I mean, all those things are critical.
And and so and I did advise Ross along the way, but I do have some ownership in it. Do feel I have some personal pride in it. He's doing a great job.
This year is going to be a challenging year. It's year one from that perspective. So, you know, the expectations have to be consistent with reality.
But I think he's going to do a really, really good job. And I'm looking forward to seeing him in Vegas on November 4th. I'll be at that game when they play Texas.
[Dan Hope]
Obviously, people want to see, you know, championships come back to that program, too. What do you think are the steps that will need to happen for Ohio State basketball to get back to where it's winning Big Ten championships?
[Gene Smith]
Well, I think one is, you know, Jake needed to hire his staff and make sure that there's total alignment with the staff, support staff and the people in the department to support basketball. I think that's critical. And then he needed to get his roster set.
You know, I think he's done a great job in the portal. We're fortunate enough to hold on to a few guys that were, I think, a part of our future. And you guys know them as well.
I did not anticipate that we would lose Roddy Gale. That was a loss. And then, of course, Felix.
I was hopeful that we could retain those two. But that's a new world we're in, particularly with basketball. I think it's more impactful there just because of the numbers.
But he's got a great roster, great kids in our culture. And so I think that's the main thing. And then, you know, the recruiting part is just going to Ohio is blessed over the next couple of years to have some unbelievably talented basketball players.
We got to be strong in that space and which was played well for Jake in the hire. So anyway, I think we got to get it all comes down to players. You guys know that.
So, you know, great, great players make great coaches. So we got to make sure we were really strong in the recruiting.
[Andy Anders]
What has it been like? Obviously, this is one of the big things you work with with Ross over the last few months. What's it been like working with him for these past four months?
And what do you think Ohio State fans should expect from him as the athletic director?
[Gene Smith]
It's been enjoyable. You know, Ross and I knew each other before. And I have a lot of respect for him and his career path.
He's a seasoned athletic director, a seasoned administrator. And he holds the values that we all hold dear. And so helping him transition and learn our culture and how we operate here as an institution and helping him understand what Buckeye Nation is all about.
And, you know, this is obviously the largest program that he's ever overseen. So understanding that vast number of people, 575 employees or whatever it is, and all the concerts and nationwide arena and all those things that we run, I think he's getting acclimated to. So it's been great to work with him.
And some of my people, my teammates knew him, too. Dan Cloran and he worked together as development officers, you know, in the industry. So, you know, it's worked well.
He's got a great relationship with the president, which is critical. So he's figuring it all out.
[Dan Hope]
What's maybe your biggest advice to Ross that you wish somebody had told you before you became Ohio State's athletic director?
[Gene Smith]
You know, that's kind of hard. I think probably the biggest thing is the pause and don't press. Don't press.
You know, take your time. You know, you feel like you got to sprint sometimes when you're driven and you're kind of a slightly type A personality. You know, you want to roll and you ought to take your time a little bit.
And he's doing that. This transition has allowed him to do that, actually. But that would be the biggest thing is, you know, I was fortunate when I first came in.
I just read a book by Michael Watkins, The First 90 Days. And that helped me frame my transition time around pausing. But that's probably the biggest thing is don't feel like you got to change everything right away.
Just read the room. You know, I've seen some of my colleagues go in at different places and change the mascot and they don't last long. Can you imagine if I change Brutus?
It's a little weird. Let's just change this.
[Andy Anders]
Let's redo everything. You know, speaking of change, obviously, this is college sports as a whole since you took over in 2005 has shifted drastically. In what ways has that changed the job of being an athletic director at a major program like Ohio State?
[Gene Smith]
You have to begin to think differently. There's no question that you have to really think about everything differently. I actually think the model will be defined at 25 and then you go through 25 and early 26 and there'll be clarity that everybody will be able to manage it.
But I think, you know, the biggest thing is you got to think different budgetarily. You have to pay more attention to this new ecosystem, you know, and making sure that you have a stronger emphasis on financial management, teaching that with our student-athletes. You know, they're going to come into the revenue share process.
They're going to come into more money. So, making sure that your financial literacy program is the best that it can possibly be. Ours is really good, but, you know, everything needs to be looked at.
So, there's just a whole lot of things with that. Just really, really more attention to some of those details. The money is going to be the money and that's not going to be this reality.
We're going to be told what it's going to be and then you just got to embrace that change and roll with it.
[Dan Hope]
How well do you think Ohio State is prepared for this new revenue sharing system and just for college sports in general? How do you think that's going to be good, bad, or whatever for college sports?
[Gene Smith]
Well, I think we're prepared. Obviously, we have great support from Buckeye Nation and we really began last year talking about this. I always told our coaches and my teammates that this was the case.
That once it's settled, once, you know, hopefully it wouldn't go to court, which, you know, I was really praying for, but now that it's close to being settled, that would bring clarity and now we have it to some degree. We'll have more when the judge makes her final decision, but I think we're well positioned. We started to reduce expenses in a lot of different areas, big time.
We started two years ago a revenue generation committee to, you know, think about other things we could do to generate revenue. I mean, you guys saw it. I mean, I never thought we'd be playing golf in the stadium, you know.
So, we had, you know, 11,000 people play nine holes of golf in the stadium and, you know, that's just unique for us. But those type of things we have to think about and do take the risk associated with them from a revenue generation point of view, but we also need to significantly reduce expenses around a number of our different areas in sports, and we're doing that.
[Dan Hope]
What are some of those areas where you're looking to cut expenses?
[Gene Smith]
Well, it's largely, you know, so I think one of the things we all have to get used to is the fact that our programs probably won't be as the same across the board. So, we just have to kind of look at where teams travel, how they travel, scholarship allocations, all those different things. And we began those conversations, and Ross and others, his team will begin to make some solid decisions on that.
We've been totally transparent with coaches, you know, helping them understand that something's coming, exactly what, don't know. But those things we have to look at.
[Andy Anders]
Is there any level of fear that Ohio State might have less than 36 going forward, or is every effort being made to maintain all 36 as they are currently?
[Gene Smith]
Yeah, we're kind of committed to maintaining those 36, and I think we may change how our expectations with them based upon how much you invest in them. So, that will change to some degree. But I think the idea of keeping those sports is important for a number of different reasons.
One is Title IX, the federal law, making sure we apply to that. Our women enrollment at Ohio State is higher than our male enrollment. So, we got to make sure our proportionality numbers align.
So, I think that's critical. But I just think the reality is every sport that we've had, you know, we've funded at the highest level to compete for championships. And that will change.
That will change. And we've been very transparent with our coaches and support staff about that. So, there'll be a new model.
And we're not the only ones, as you guys are probably aware, reading all that. But everybody's going through the start process now. And so, we'll continue to do that.
And the environment's ready for it. And we'll just have to have different expectations for different programs.
[Andy Anders]
I wanted to circle back to, just because it caught my attention, something you mentioned earlier about teaching athletes financial literacy. Is that something new that kind of came about with NIL? Is that something that's sort of always been in place?
Obviously, it's important when now a lot of these kids are getting money they've never seen before in college to teach them how to use that wisely. So, I guess, when did that sort of get implemented? Did it ramp up with NIL?
How did that all work?
[Gene Smith]
It's been in place for years. I mean, 2000, probably 13, somewhere in there. Somewhere in there, we really, really got deep into it and started doing a better job with it.
And most people don't know. There's so many life skills that we teach. We require all of our sophomores to have resumes.
Think about that. Many of our student athletes never worked before in their lives. And all of a sudden, they got to write a resume.
They're like, oh, I have nothing to put on it. So, that's what's helped our internship program, our institute that you guys are heard about and read about. And it all contributes to our academic performance of our teams.
You know, 36 sports that over a 3.0 GPA and our football team are having a thousand on the APR. All that's a part of it. Financial literacy was always a part of the many different things that we try and teach our student athletes.
However, to your point, we did ramp up around NIL. We ramped that up and talked more about taxes. We always taught taxes, but we were more about taxes, you know, talking to Pell-eligible student athletes around taxes.
And I remember having a Zoom with parents and our football team, and I think it was two months before NIL was enacted and asked all of our football players, how many of you pay taxes? Zero. None of them, right?
[Dan Hope]
Wow.
[Gene Smith]
Because they were dependents on their parents, right? So if you do a deal and you get paid in gross, you got a whole backer percentage. Otherwise, your parents are going to get called by the IRS.
So don't worry about the NCAA, worry about the IRS. And so we started that into your point about being a little bit more focused on that part of financial literacy. And there's some other elements in there as well.
[Dan Hope]
It has to be really hard to make those decisions you were talking about, about, you know, which sports you're going to continue to fund at a championship level and which ones maybe you need to scale back on. How do you think, you know, those decisions are going to be made?
[Gene Smith]
Yeah, I think, you know, you have to look at your data, your metrics. You have to look at the number of sports sponsored in Ohio. You have to look at the number of sports sponsored in the Big Ten.
You have to look at the number of sports sponsored nationally around that individual sport. And, you know, your expenses associated with it and determine if it's something that you want to have perform at a different level. So you just have to begin that process.
And we've begun that process. We started it actually last year. So we have a chart.
Ross has it. So we just got to make those decisions.
[Andy Anders]
Outside of revenue sharing and the changes that are coming with that model, what other changes do you see coming to college sports in the near future?
[Gene Smith]
Don't know. You know, that's the that's the part of this change. You just don't know.
You know, so I'm hopeful that some of the things that we've learned by some of the things that have happened, we'll be able to adjust to. I am concerned about the transfers. You know, I think student athletes who transfer, you know, more than once have a real problem.
They lose credit hours the first time and they lose credit hours the second time. So what does that look like from a graduation point of view? I believe in the one time transfer model.
I believe they deserve that right. But a lot of the decisions that are being made around transferring are not academic decisions. And that concerns me.
And so we've been fortunate where our student athletes historically have graduated in less than four years, less than four years. And now I'm worried about whether we can maintain that because remember, graduation is the that's the holy grail. That's it.
And so and as we all know, only 1% go pro. And I think we had 31 athletes competing in the Olympic trials. So I don't know how many are going to make it.
So you have the Olympics and you have pro. And that's only like 1%. So the rest of them got to find jobs and you need that sheepskin in order to find a job.
And so I think that that focus has to always continue to be part of our culture and something we tether to. But I'm worried about the transfer part. I'm hopeful that that changes over time.
[Dan Hope]
When people talk about the career you've had here as Ohio State's athletic director, what are the biggest things that you hope people say about you?
[Gene Smith]
Well, you know, I hope, you know, they recognize that I always had a student athlete at the core of what I was all about. You know, I just met with Nate Ebner, who, you know, had an unbelievable career playing ball and rugby and the Olympics and the whole nine yards, but trying to help him, you know, with his next iteration of life. And he's 30 something years old.
But that's what I do. A lot of people don't see that. And that's what it's all about for me is that hopefully people will recognize that that's been my focus.
The coaches focus on championships and all those type of things. But helping that student athlete find her or his next career path is really what it's all about for me. It really is getting that sheepskin, developing as a person.
I hope people recognize that that's the passion that I brought to the table.
[Andy Anders]
When you look back on that, is there a story maybe that sticks out from your years of an athlete that you saw grow, maybe helped find that career path and find that sort of growth?
[Gene Smith]
You know, it's not one. You know, there's just so many, you know, Christian Dozer, who played volleyball for us years ago. She came back to a volleyball game here and I was like, shocked.
She's married, had two little kids with her. You know, she's got a great career. And there's just so many of them.
You know, Cardell Jones, who had that famous tweet that, you know, you know better than me. And he gets his degree. You know, it's just so many of them.
I could just go on forever. During my commencement, you know, when I had the blessing to speak at commencement and seeing, you know, Cody Simon walk across the stage and see Emeka Obuka walk across the stage. And they're still here playing.
You know, that stuff. I mean, I don't know. I don't know.
That stuff just moves me. And I just, I had to actually go up and give Cody a hug, you know, because, you know, he's such an exemplar person. So, I don't know.
I could just go on and on. You know, Emma Baranski, a former synchronized swimmer who was our female athlete of the year. And she's a four-time national champion.
She's out in Vegas and competing in that old show. But she got her MBA along while she was doing that. I mean, it's just, I could just go on.
We could be here for a while.
[Dan Hope]
Is there an achievement in your time as Ohio State's athletic director that you are most proud of?
[Gene Smith]
I'm really proud of the football championship, obviously, under Urban. That was really a cool experience. And, you know, everything associated with it from, you know, three quarterbacks, you know, and that was a fun time for all of us.
I think a remarkable experience for all of Buckeye Nation and obviously those student athletes. But that was huge. And, you know, I kind of have an affinity for wrestling.
I think everybody knows that. So, you know, the wrestling national championship under Tom Ryan in 2015 in St. Louis was, I mean, those kids were phenomenal. You know, Miles Smart, Kyle Schneider, Logan Stieber, Nate Thompson, you just go on and on.
They were, that's a different sport. You got to kind of, you know, be, you got to kind of love it. And I do.
It's a true definition of a man in the arena. And I just enjoyed it. And that stands at the top of the pyramid for me.
I could keep going there because men's volleyball and, you know, women's ice hockey. I can just keep going. But those two probably stand out to me a lot.
[Andy Anders]
There's a variety of sports you listed in there. And I think one of the lasting legacies you have as athletic director and it's been kind of talked about is that you had a, you know, a holistic approach and really elevated all sports at Ohio State. And over the years, what made that so important to you to not just, you know, the focus on football and basketball, but to really elevate the entire athletics department?
[Gene Smith]
The resources that we've been blessed to have and the model that we were in now that's going to change. But the reality is we could provide the resources for Pistol to win, you know, national championships that we shouldn't do that. And it's not that much, but we did that.
And, you know, that did concern me that our Pistol team was beating Army. I'm like, oh, if I'm going to war, I'm taking my Pistol. But, you know, the reality is all of those young people, they have a talent, a gift that we needed to make sure we had the best platform possible for them to develop that gift and be champions with it.
And whatever sport it was, fencing, whatever sport it was. And so I just felt like that that was the right thing to do. Parents give us their children, their most prized possession, and they've developed them to that point, 17 or 18 years old.
So it's our responsibility to help develop them in whatever sport that they're in, along with all the other issues that we talked about, but certainly in the sport that they're in.
[Dan Hope]
Well, Gene, we want to thank you for being so gracious with your time with us over the years. It's always been a pleasure to have you on the show and talk to you, and we wish you nothing but the best in retirement.
[Gene Smith]
Well, thank you. I appreciate both of you. I mean, you're both professionals in this industry, and I thank you for your support and being able to share with Buckeye Nation and others what we're all about.
So thank you for your hard work. Appreciate the relationship.
[Dan Hope]
Well, it's always a pleasure to talk to Gene. Andy, what were the biggest things that stood out to you from that interview?
[Andy Anders]
I think the continued commitment to try and keep all 36 sports, even if it's not going to be at the same level that it's been in the past for Ohio State. There are certain programs that are going to have more trouble competing at the levels they've been accustomed to, but that's going to be the same across college athletics. Of course, every athletics department is going to have to make tough decisions in terms of how much revenue they share with athletes and then what that means in terms of what programs you have to modify or cut, whatever that may be.
But there seems to be, and this is something that's been reiterated, a commitment to try and keep all 36 sports, if possible, and keep those athletes in sort of the culture of Ohio State athletics. Like Gene said, there's a diverse array of talents, and I liked that he referenced the Pistol National Championship. That's pretty fun.
It's important to try and keep these programs around, but you also have to be realistic at the same time, which is why I think the strategy seems to be going forward. It's going to be more teams give up a little bit so every team can continue to at least have a program.
[Dan Hope]
Yeah, I think Gene's sentiment is shared by many. It's like, wait, Ohio State is beating Army in pistol? But that just tells you how good Ohio State's pistol program has been.
But yeah, I think that's what stood out to me as well, is the fact that he had said that when we talked to him back in April with other media members. But to hear him say that again, that they've had those conversations, they've begun talking to coaches from different sports about the reality that certain sports are not going to be funded at that championship level, as he refers to it. And hopefully we'll be able to have Ross Bjork here on the show at some point after he has started as athletic director.
And I think that's certainly going to be a question I'm going to be interested to ask to him is how do you make those decisions? Because it is tough decisions. I mean, we've had some conversations off air about certain sports that, you know, would this be the first sport to be cut or would this be the sport to lose its funding?
But there's no easy decision to make there because every one of these sports, football and basketball, obviously get the most attention and make the most money. But all of the athletes and coaches and alumni and everybody involved with each of these respective programs, they all care so much. They all want to compete at that highest level.
And so it has to be hard conversations for Gene Smith to have that Ross Bjork will have to have with certain programs of, hey, we're not going to be able to provide these same kind of resources to you anymore because we just can't. We have to share revenue with our athletes. Now it's taking a cut out of our program and we just can't afford to continue to fund your sport as much as we would like to.
And so, you know, as Gene said, it's not just Ohio State having that conversation. It's every athletic department having this conversation because every athletic department is now preparing for this revenue sharing that is coming a year from now. And everybody's going to have to deal with that.
But, you know, for Ohio State, there's a unique challenge in there in the sense that Ohio State has 36 sports, but most in the country, which means there's a lot of different sports you got to deal with.
[Andy Anders]
I think too, it was interesting to hear some of the delving into how, what the all in investment to football meant this off season. I think facilities isn't necessarily, you know, a decade ago, maybe that was one of the first things that might've come into your mind is improving the facilities as this all in push. But hearing him dive into more of how important it was, he felt to upgrade some of the things in the Woody Hayes Athletic Center, you know, like he said, two new tour fields, new locker room, new carpet, all these things.
And when you're trying to impress transfers on a visit, I would suppose that that goes into that, you know, and we've seen some photos and videos from the locker room upgrade. It's, it looked pretty impressive. And I think that, you know, you talk about the NIL stuff.
He didn't get into that as much. But the coaching salary, you know, really opening up to get the best assistance possibly under Ryan Day. And then those facility upgrades.
It seems clear to me that Gene going out in his final year, wanted to set up the marquee program at Ohio State, the athletics department as a whole, but especially the marquee program at Ohio State for success longterm, as much as he could just being the director and being the guy who calls the shots in terms of, you know, how money is spent. So that dedication, that commitment, I do think was partly spurned by it being his last year and him being willing to, you know, spend more of that money and, and have that be what he left behind.
[Dan Hope]
And it's an interesting dichotomy there. Because we just talked about how Ohio State is going to have to cut resources for some of its sports yet. He's talking about going all in on football.
And I think that's interesting because, because I do think there's a sentiment among some Ohio State fans that, you know, maybe having 36 sports has hurt the Ohio State football program because Ohio State has so many sports to fund when it's not just, you know, putting all that money into football. But I think, you know, the way Gene has talked about both those topics, you know, tells you, you know, football remains Ohio State's top priority. It's the sport that brings in the most money and it's certainly the sport they spend the most money on.
And, you know, I think, you know, in that transition from Gene Smith to Ross Bjork, that's going to continue to be the case, if not even more so the case that, you know, I think there's certainly a recognization from, you know, the top down from, from President Ted Carter to the top down that, you know, when it comes to Ohio State sports, you know, football is king and that competing for championships in football is king. And that all factors into it too.
When you start talking about allocating resources, you know, we don't know exactly how that revenue sharing model is going to work yet. I don't think even Gene Smith knows exactly how that revenue sharing model is going to work yet, but we do know that the top priority when it comes to that revenue sharing is going to be getting more money in the hands of Ohio State football players and using that money so that Ohio State football can build the best roster possible.
[Andy Anders]
I think too, you know, looking long-term, if it's the thing that pushes Ohio State over the top, there's going to be more money to be made the further you get in the playoffs in this era. You know, if you get all the way to the championship game, that's extra cuts of extra bowl revenues and those sorts of things. And there's, of course, the more increased attention, increased, you know, whether that's merchandise sales, whether that's attendance in the future, not that Ohio State's ever had an attendance problem, but these things also are going to increase revenues for the athletic department because football has always been option one, two, and three in terms of generating revenue, right?
This is what allows Ohio State to fund 36 varsity sports is how much money football makes specifically. And so, you know, increasing that brand even more and if it's, you know, sometimes you do have to spend money to make money. So if a few extra coaching hires, some facilities upgrades, if these are the things that are able to push you deeper into the playoffs, perhaps get you past Michigan, whatever it may be, then that's also going to generate more revenue to then fund those other sports and continue to fund football in the future to the fullest capacity.
So football, I'm sure a lot of fans are happy to hear that football is still the top priority and Ohio State spared no expense in Gene Smith's last off season.
[Dan Hope]
It sounds like Gene is, you know, comfortable with retirement. It sounds like, you know, it has sunk in for him and he and his wife, Sheila, are ready to move on to the next chapter of their lives. He's ready to get out to Arizona, spend more time with his grandkids, play more golf, which, you know, I know I'd love to play more golf, so I can certainly see where he's coming from there.
But, you know, I know for me personally, I don't know that it's necessarily sunk in for me yet that in two weeks, Gene Smith will no longer be Ohio State's athletic director because he's been Ohio State's athletic director as long as I've known. I mean, we're both younger guys here. I mean, I, growing up in Massachusetts, was not following Ohio State sports before Gene Smith became Ohio State's athletic director.
So even dating back to when I was just a student before I started, you know, covering Ohio State sports, you know, Gene is the only Ohio State athletic director I've ever known. So it is going to be a little bit weird to not see him around. I mean, even just, you know, to go to events and not see him there.
Andy, when you think of just Gene and his tenure, what do you think are going to be the biggest things that stand out in your mind about his tenure as Ohio State's athletic director?
[Andy Anders]
We talked about it a little during the interview is just his commitment to really raise the tide of all boats for all boats in Ohio State's athletic department and how holistic his commitment was to getting Ohio State to compete in a lot of different areas. I love that he brought up the wrestling championship because if you look, Penn State's been a dynasty for two decades now. It's some crazy number, like 16 of the last 18 national championships they've won or something like that.
To up into that shows the commitment that he's had there. What Ohio State's been able to do in women's hockey, you know, at the end of his tenure here winning multiple national titles in a sport that was largely dominated by a select few teams. You know, the commitment across the board to all Ohio State sports is going to be toward the top of his legacy and what the reputation he has is.
And I think also a lot of the strides that were made toward the tail end in terms of football in this new landscape of NIL and the transfer portal. Obviously, he gets credit for the Urban Meyer hire and helping Ohio State get to the top in 2014. And you know, most people I think are going to remember the Ohio State athletic director for what happened in football during his tenure.
And no athletic director is going to be without blemishes too. We didn't really get a chance to talk about what happened in 2011 or 2018 and some of those topics. But I think for me, those hiccups, you could say, pale in comparison and this is just my perspective, pale in comparison to the other things Gene accomplished and in helping to lead Ohio State into this new future.
There's a reason he held this job for decades and has such prestige nationally. I think a lot of people around the country respect what Gene Smith has accomplished and getting Ohio State also to a place through all of this where he still has a very clearly, whenever you talk to an athlete-focused mindset, development mindset about these people and getting young people into the careers they want, into the lives they want outside of sports. On top of that, he was still able to put Ohio State at the top of the mountain in terms of revenue generation and helping secure these big media rights deals and helping the athletic department make as much money as it ever has.
So I think when you look at, for me, the whole scope, it's a great legacy Gene leaves. And again, maybe there's a little bias for me talking about it because like you, he's been the athletic director pretty much since I gained sentience, you know? So it's hard to picture a world without Gene, but for me, I think it is a great legacy he leaves behind.
[Dan Hope]
Yeah, I agree with you on all that. Obviously, people are always going to think about the things that went wrong. And he was certainly not perfect in his tenure as Ohio State athletic director.
He certainly had some moments I think that he would like to have back. But I think by and large, he's going to be very much in the conversation for the best Ohio State athletic director that's ever overseen the department with just everything that he did in his 19 years. You know, the success that so many sports had under his watch.
And, you know, to your point, I think, you know, for Gene, you always felt that his commitment to the athletes was very genuine. And when he talks about, you know, every time we've had him on the show, he always talks about, you know, preparing athletes for graduation and, you know, preparing them for life outside of sports. And I think that is something that is very meaningful for Gene.
That he understood the job that he had, which the number one job is to, well, there's two number one jobs, win championships and make money. You have to do those things as an athletic director, or you don't get to be the athletic director anymore. And as he said, you probably don't want to change the mascot either.
Certainly not one as iconic as Brutus Buckeye. But, you know, I think beneath all of that, I think Gene, the thing he truly cared about above all was what was best for Ohio State's athletes. You know, whether that was fighting for them during the COVID pandemic, whether that was creating programs and bringing resources into Ohio State, whether it be, you know, the Eugene Smith Leadership Institute, which he started to help athletes develop leadership and life skills, whether that's, you know, the mental health services that, you know, Ohio State was very much on the forefront of bringing those into college sports. I think that, you know, Gene truly has had an authentic commitment to trying to do what's best for Ohio State's athletes across all of its sports. And I think for me that that is the first thing that I will think of with Gene, because it's easy to try to boil down an athletic director's legacy to how many championships did he win under his tenure?
But, you know, that's really more of a coach and the players. Gene would certainly tell you that. He played a part in Ohio State football winning a national championship and Ohio State wrestling winning a national championship.
But that starts with the athletes themselves and then the coaches. He's really there to put the structure in place to allow them to succeed. But I think where he really made a massive impact on Ohio State that will continue for decades to come is the infrastructure that he created for Ohio State athletes to succeed not only on the field of play, but off the field, in the classroom, in the community, as they prepare for their professional careers.
[Andy Anders]
Right. And staying with the times, too, in that preparation, you know, hearing him talk about increasing the financial literacy training. And that's why I wanted to follow up on that is because, like, I think it's good to whenever you talk to Gene, while he certainly has an approach to things, while he certainly has he's done that have worked in his career that he returns to.
He allowed himself to stay innovative throughout his decades long career and not be left behind by the changes that are happening. You know, it did take Ohio State maybe some time to ramp up in the NIL space. But, you know, you look what they accomplished this offseason, hard to argue with the results that ultimately came.
And again, with that, then you're now preparing your athletes how to handle these large sums of money they could be getting, you know, in football or even smaller sums in other sports, you know, and training them even just how to do taxes, like he said, how to I'm sure there's some portion of that that's talking about how to invest that in your future rather than just spending all the money you get on these flashy things now. And being wise about that.
I think that's so good to hear that Ohio State was not only at the end of his time start really getting proactive in terms of talent acquisition and retention in the NIL space, but also teaching athletes how to deal with that. So I just think that speaks again to his legacy, to how he's put athletes first, not just in the words that he's spoken, but I think in the actions throughout his tenure and with that leadership Institute to how he's put the off field needs of athletes first throughout his time as athletic director.
[Dan Hope]
Well, we hope you enjoyed this week's episode of Real Pod Wednesdays. We want to once again, thank Gene Smith for joining the show and wish him all the best in his retirement coming up in just a couple of weeks. And we hope you'll join us again next week.