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"A LOT with Audra" is the podcast for women juggling big dreams and full lives. Each episode, host, Audra Dinell, Midwestern wife, mom and neurodivergent multi-six figure entrepreneur encourages women to embrace their many roles holistically by living a values-based life with confidence and joy. Through candid discussions, practical strategies and inspiring stories, this podcast is your guide to designing and achieving success without losing yourself in the process.
Ep36
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[00:00:00]
Audra Dinell: Welcome back to a lot with Audra, the podcast for women who've been told they're too much or have ever felt like it. Here, we believe that your a lot is your superpower, and we're all about helping you own it. Today we're diving into one of my favorite tools for self-awareness and growth, the Enneagram.
My guest, Mandy Shoemaker, is an incredible Enneagram coach and founder of My Purpose-Built Life, who helps people go beyond the surface of personality types, to truly understand their core motivations, patterns, and blind spots. Whether you're brand new to the Enneagram or have been typing your friends [00:01:00] for years, you'll walk away from this conversation with practical insight and I promise a few light bulb moments.
Introduction to Mandy Shoemaker
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Audra Dinell: Mandy Shoemaker is a Kansas City native growing up in Overland Park. She left for Colorado to attend college and started her career as a teacher in the Pacific Northwest, returning in 2005 to be closer to family. She has been an elementary school principal in Blue Valley and Olathe and award-winning entrepreneur in the senior living space, and now is an ICF Certified Personal Development Coach and a certified Enneagram practitioner.
Working with individuals and teams, Mandy's focus has turned to how we can show up as our most authentic selves at home and at work. As a personal development coach, Mandy helps people find purpose, peace, and joy in life no matter what season they are in. You can find out more about Mandy at my purpose built life.com.
Welcome and personal experience with Enneagram
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Audra Dinell: Mandy, welcome to the podcast. [00:02:00] So glad to have you and get into Enneagram. It's just one of those tools that I feel like when I found it, I just felt so like seen and naked and all the things like it cut deep.
Mandy Shoemaker: It just cracks you open.
Audra Dinell: Yes. That's a good way to put it.
Mandy Shoemaker: yeah.
Audra Dinell: Okay, so if someone has just heard the term Enneagram, but they don't really know what it is, it.
Feels a little complicated to them. Can you give us just like a CliffNotes version of how you would describe Enneagram
Mandy Shoemaker: Sure. I would say that Enneagram is a personality typing tool that can give you information that's similar to others, like Disc, Myers-Briggs, things like that. But A major step further in that the Enneagram isn't about so much, putting a label on the behaviors, you know, how we show up in the world, what it looks like, but it's more help designed to help us [00:03:00] understand the motivations behind those behaviors. And so I think that's the real unique part of the Enneagram is that it really helps us peel back the layers and identify those patterns those behavior patterns that we show up with that maybe really do work for us, and we understand why. And then those behavior patterns that maybe don't work for us and we understand why, and then it gives us a path to how we could change those.
One more thing I think that is super cool about Enneagram that really makes me love it even more is that it's not owned by anyone. there's constant innovation in the Enneagram field. So there's several different schools of thought that are all intertwined. I mean, the Enneagrams, the Enneagram. But there are different schools of thought that focus on different areas of the Enneagram, and so it creates this constant innovation in the whole [00:04:00] Enneagram landscape. So it's not just one tool designed by one company to make money. It's more of a whole system of thought that different people have different takes on and they can take that wherever they want to.
Audra Dinell: Well, and it dates back long, long ago, right?
Mandy Shoemaker: it does. It does. And it's actually based on Homer's Odyssey, the Homer visits nine places along his journey. And each place the challenges that he overcomes and the people that he meets all represent each of the nine archetypal personalities.
Audra Dinell: And Homer's Odyssey is a book written.
Mandy Shoemaker: it's like an epic poem
Audra Dinell: Okay.
Mandy Shoemaker: by Homer in the,
Audra Dinell: Like 18 hundreds or something way earlier. Okay. Okay. I know, I don't know, details aren't my thing, but I just know that that always stood out to me of, wow, this is a, a thing that's been around for a long, [00:05:00] long time. This is not the Myers-Briggs or Clifton Strength Finders even. This is something that has, has been around and has rich history.
Mandy Shoemaker: Absolutely. So the Odyssey was actually written around seven 50 or six 50 BC.
Audra Dinell: Oh wow. Okay. I do need to look that up. I'm gonna.
Mandy Shoemaker: I did just look it up and we are talking like ancient. I think the point behind it is that it's not new and it's been the, what we really typically see are familiar with today as the Enneagram was really developed in the sixties and seventies and brought to the United States by a guy named Claudio Naranjo.
Audra Dinell: Okay.
Mandy Shoemaker: of who, who brought it to the us.
Audra Dinell: Okay. Well, and I know this, what you're talking about already kind of rings true because when I really first do. Deeper into the Enneagram. I had taken the online test and typed myself based on what that said, [00:06:00] and I was leaving my corporate career to stay at home after my second son and really wanted to learn more about myself and just grow.
And I picked up a book called The Road Back to You by Ian Kron, and he's big in the Enneagram world. He has his old podcast we can link to that's all about Enneagram
Mandy Shoemaker: And
Audra Dinell: and.
Mandy Shoemaker: out with a new assessment tool.
Audra Dinell: he did. How interesting. Okay. I,
Mandy Shoemaker: it out yet, but it's new.
Audra Dinell: I wanna follow up on that too, because I learned through you just the difference between all the tools.
There's so many out there, and it was a little confusing to me. But what I learned when I was in that season of transition and reading that book really did. Strike me deeply as not, oh, this is the way I'm showing up in this situation, but more, oh my gosh, that hits the core of why I showed up like that.
This is why, like in the situation I'm thinking of, I put, you know, walls up as a defense mechanism. And so it was just really [00:07:00] helpful to have that like awareness deeply of myself that no one else could necessarily see. But to know, oh, this is, this is why I'm showing up like this in these type of situations.
So I just agree with you that it just like takes everything and goes so much deeper.
Mandy Shoemaker: Yes, and even saying defense mechanisms, like there are specific defense mechanisms that show up for each type. And so the thing that's so cool is the Enneagram really gives us a path to recognizing those defense mechanisms and overcoming them. Those are the things that I think it has that no other tool has
Audra Dinell: And in working with you, that's what I have been learning more about. So before we get into that, I want. To give our listeners a place where they can go to determine, what type they are. If they're like, what are you talking about? These types, there's nine types and there's many different [00:08:00] ways you can figure out which one you are.
But as an Enneagram certified practitioner, what do you recommend?
Mandy Shoemaker: Well, I mean, I recommend, utilizing, first I recommend. Educating yourself about Enneagram. So reading a book like The Road Back to You,
Audra Dinell: Okay.
Mandy Shoemaker: Cron. That's a great introductory Enneagram book. Really, really good. And he wrote it with a woman named Suzanne Stabile. It's just a really readable, really relatable, and it helps you kind of see where you fit. And it's also fun to read about all the other types because you can see where other people in your life might fit in. One of the things that's really interesting about the Enneagram is that you are the only person that can type yourself
Explaining what the Enneagram is
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Mandy Shoemaker: I don't do the typing for people. They take the assessment that I'm certified in, but then we go through a series of, [00:09:00] exercises to ensure that type. Resonates with them. I do get people all the time. I have a new guy that I'm working with and he said, yeah, I'm a six, but I've never taken a formal assessment. And he just took it yesterday and he showed up as an eight and it's a very strong eight. So I'm eager to meet with him and see, my first question isn't, well what do you think about you being an eight?
It's, how do you, how does eight resonate with you? So it, and you and I have talked about, and I think this was the same for you, I was originally mistyped as an eight even through the assessments because I've always been told that I'm bossy and controlling. And eights are known as the active controller.
Audra Dinell: Hmm.
Mandy Shoemaker: And so I was going more from. What I thought people thought of me
Audra Dinell: Yeah.
Mandy Shoemaker: the questions rather than what actually motivates me to be controlling and
Audra Dinell: Mm.
Mandy Shoemaker: what motivates me to be controlling is to [00:10:00] avoid discomfort.
Audra Dinell: Yep.
Mandy Shoemaker: that, and that's what a seven does. And once I understood that, I'm like all seven and no matter what assessment I take now I'm gonna come up as a strong seven because I understand my own motivations.
Audra Dinell: That was interesting to me too. I mean, I had just taken some of the free assessments online, I think read the book, but once I started working with you and took the assessment you're certified in, I. Saw the seven and just digging into it, I was like, oh, yes, yes, yes, this is it. I mean, definitely parts of me are eight, that's my wing.
But it totally resonated because it was that layer deeper. It wasn't what, like you said, people, I thought people thought of me, but my true motivations. So it's just, it, it is interesting. It's kind of a complicated tool, but
Mandy Shoemaker: It's, it's.
Audra Dinell: It, it has to be that way so that you're getting that real [00:11:00] deep stuff. It's not surface level, so.
Mandy Shoemaker: And, the idea behind the whole thing is that we all embody all of the types and our goal is to not just be a really good seven, but to be a really good seven who can embody and see all of the benefits of all nine types.
Audra Dinell: And that's what I've learned from you and that I'm excited about. And it took me a while to understand like if I'm a seven, why would I want to go to this number, which we'll get into. But first, before we do that, I'd love if you could just give like an overview. There's nine types. Just tell us a quick overview of the types.
Mandy Shoemaker: Yeah. wanna say before I do this, and, and I think we've sort of been edging around this, is that the goal of the Enneagram is not to put us in a box. It's to show us the box that we are showing up in and giving us the boundaries. Where are the walls? Where are we sitting in that box? And if we wanna get out, how do we do that? [00:12:00] And so it's not to just be like, oh, you're a one, you're a one, you're a one, you're a one. Like whatever.
Audra Dinell: I think. To piggyback on that, when people, I mean, I'm a person that loves assessments and also, it's not like live or die. I, I'm gonna box myself up because of this. So I, I love that you shared that because this is a, tool of freedom, but it is not an excuse to not allow you Yeah.
Not
Mandy Shoemaker: seven,
Audra Dinell: yes.
Mandy Shoemaker: avoid that and I'm just gonna keep.
Audra Dinell: That you could use it that way. But that's not the purpose to use it is to have that self-awareness and just like inner knowing of why you're doing what you're doing, and how to achieve what you wanna achieve or be who you wanna be by getting outta that box, like you said.
Mandy Shoemaker: Yes. Love it. So. The reason the Enneagram is called the Enneagram is when you have these nine types and the [00:13:00] structure of the shape of an Enneagram, which is, the nine pointed star basically. Is there are all of these different inner workings of how the numbers are connected. so that gives us a whole lot of different perspectives for looking at each type. But initially they're grouped into the head types, the heart types, and the body types. So generally we start with the body types. So we start with eight, which is the active controller. So eight are, they show up super confident, they know what they want and they make stuff happen. They don't always have to be the leader, but if somebody doesn't automatically step up as a leader, they're going to easily move into that standpoint. One of my good friends that I do some Enneagram work with, his name is Jim Gum. He, of his descriptions of eights is if you [00:14:00] have an interaction with an eight that makes you feel, you're kind of thinking about it afterwards. don't expect them to keep thinking about it.
Audra Dinell: Yeah. Yeah.
Mandy Shoemaker: eights do not lose sleep about interact. They don't worry if they've offended somebody or whatever.
And it's not because they don't care. It's just 'cause they don't, they may if, if they're coming on as strong, like, I love your, the podcast of a lot, a lot with Audra that a lot. Now, I'm gonna use the word a lot all the time, but a lot of times eights are told they're a lot they're okay with that and, but they don't necessarily see themselves as being a lot. and one of the little gifts of eights that people don't always recognize is there is this incredible innocence eight that, that they just don't always. See the world, how people expect them to see it. So there's a lot more to eights than just those high power people that can come in and [00:15:00] take control. Nines are the adaptive peacemakers. one of my sons is a nine. Nines just do everything they can to avoid conflict. They learn early on that if I just don't rock the boat, everything will be okay. And that's, you know, a lot, lot of times. When we, the reason we become, we show up as the number that we are is because of things that happened in our childhood. And so my oldest son is the one who's a nine and his younger brother had a lot of things that took a lot of. attention. And so Ben learned early on that if he didn't have a lot of needs, that if he just went along with things, if he kept the peace, that's how we got love and appreciation and attention. so that's what kind of helps us form those types. So nines are kind of. [00:16:00] what the world is striving for peace and harmony. Like, they really embody just that kind of to keep everybody happy and where they are. And they, it can be very nice to have around. Ones are known as the strict perfectionist. And so ones really have, they view the world pretty black and white and right or wrong. So they work really, really, really hard to be right. They always wanna do things the right way, and a lot of times the right way is their way. but if they learn that it's not, they're gonna, they're gonna change really fast to get in line. And I, I as a seven need a lot of one in my life. So, so I have learned to have a deep appreciation for ones twos are known as the considerate helpers. They have a gift of just seeing other people's [00:17:00] needs, so they get their, oh. As we move from one to two, we're moving into the heart types.
Audra Dinell: Okay.
Mandy Shoemaker: and one are the body types. Two, three, and four are the heart types. Twos get their value extrinsically, so they love to come in and save the day. And I'm the one who helps. And I'm the one, they, they are rescuers. They get their validation from coming in and helping. But one of the downsides of that is a lot of times they don't see their own needs and they have a hard time acknowledging that they have needs. But even though it's all under the surface, they can build resentments for how much they end up doing for others, and that it's not reciprocated. So they have a superpower and every, every type has superpowers and then areas that they can get kind of hung up on. Threes are the competitive achievers. So threes always wanna be the best. They're always comparing themselves to everyone. [00:18:00] And they're going to look at each situation and think about, how can I show up to be as successful as possible in this situation? So they might have different ways of showing up in different areas of their lives based on what they think is gonna get. Gain them the most success, sometimes status. So depending, we probably won't get into a lot of subtypes today, but subtypes really make a difference with the threes. So fours are the intense creatives. So fours sort of see the world as lacking and they wanna contribute their creativity, their beauty. They're very in touch with their darker feelings, their sadder, more sad feelings, and aren't afraid to share that with the world. Typical in, oh, so we've moved away two threes and four is our heart. Five, six and seven are head, so thinkers. [00:19:00] are the quiet specialists. They are sort of what we've stereotypically think of as introverts. Fives are always gauging their batteries. Their automatic answer to things is gonna, they're gonna say no before they say yes. they're constantly thinking, Ooh, how much fat checking their batteries. How much energy do I have for that? Can I do it? They see sometimes invitations as intrusions. And they wanna know the data of things. They wanna go deep in things. Six is the loyal skeptic. My husband is a six. Sixes are going to constantly evaluate risk. They are often gonna be the voice of reason to my seven. I can do anything. He, he actually really does think I can do anything, but I've also really learned to listen to his, rather than me thinking, why are you asking so many questions?
It's now I'm [00:20:00] like, Ooh. I should consider that,
Audra Dinell: Hmm.
Mandy Shoemaker: I do need to stop and think about that. So I really have learned through Enneagram to value that in him and to see where he brings in some things that I lack. So sixes are cautious. they're always planning for disaster. They're always prepared for when things go wrong. And they are also very, very loyal. So there, it's hard to earn their trust, but once you do earn their trust, they're very, very loyal.
Audra Dinell: I think my husband's a six too.
Mandy Shoemaker: yeah,
Audra Dinell: Yeah.
Mandy Shoemaker: talked about that.
Audra Dinell: Yeah.
Mandy Shoemaker: done, there is a couple's report
Audra Dinell: Oh.
Mandy Shoemaker: have wor done with a few people and you know, I haven't done it for me and my husband, but I need to do it 'cause I know it'll be fun and. he kind of, he. Talks outta both sides of his mouth. You know, he is like, everything's all about the Enneagram, but then I know he is totally listening and I know he [00:21:00] appreciates that. It's given me a new way to describe why I am acting a certain way, like it's helped me name. The need that I'm trying to fulfill when I'm doing something that annoys him, I'm like, I know this annoys you that I have to do it because it makes me feel better because of this, this, and this. And he is like, oh, okay. Well, I understand that. Like it puts it into practical terms. So enthusiastic, visionary. Our last, our final type, and that's what we are. Enthusiastic, visionary. We have tons of ideas. We just wanna experience the joys and adventures in life. We reframe things to be positive if we, you and I, we've both had some challenges since we've known each other, but we have, I think, witnessed each other turning it around.
But actually it was a great learning opportunity.
Audra Dinell: always.
Mandy Shoemaker: And we kind of have this belief about ourselves that we can do anything. One of our [00:22:00] challenges is that we have a hard time recognizing the harder, more negative side of life, and we wanna move on from it super fast because we have this fear that if we really gave into those negative feelings, we would never get out of them. And referring again to my friend Jim Gum. This cracks me up, but he says, sevens don't wanna spend too much time with somebody who's sad or down because they're worried that that might stick to them. And you know, working in senior living, it really helped me grow as a seven. And learn to be in hard times with people that it, I always kind of had this guilt that if just because someone else was crying and, and feeling really sad, I didn't have to cry with them.
I always felt guilty that it didn't make me cry. But I don't have to cry with them, but I can be with them in that really supportive way, and not [00:23:00] have to go there. And that's, I've gained some balance that way, I think, anyway.
Audra Dinell: Oh, that's a good learning.
Mandy Shoemaker: Yeah. Yeah.
Audra Dinell: so people are probably listening to this and they're thinking, oh, that sounds like me. The thing that I find has been really cool to learn is about the vice and victors of my type virtue
Mandy Shoemaker: Vice and virtue,
Audra Dinell: vice and virtue vice and virtue of my type, which is kind of like that double-edged sword.
Like, Ooh, these are my vices and these are my. Victors and then how I can grow, and that's kind of how the whole Enneagram nine point star comes together that I didn't understand before working with you.
Mandy Shoemaker: So you want
Audra Dinell: Can.
Mandy Shoemaker: little bit about that?
Audra Dinell: Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about that? I know we probably won't get into deep details since, you know, every type has its own, but generally
Mandy Shoemaker: Yeah. We'll talk a little bit about it and we could go in, we could talk a little more in detail maybe about [00:24:00] sevens,
Audra Dinell: perfect.
Mandy Shoemaker: that's easy for us. so one of the things that we've talked about that you and I have talked about today is that the Enneagram provides this path to growth, right? And as Enneagram practitioners, we are trained to help people understand. Their vice and some schools of thought, call it the passion and so not passion from a, ooh, this is my purpose, my thing that I'm passionate about. But more from that, more spiritual, like the, the passion, this is the thing that gets me in trouble.
And so every type has their vice. And their virtue. So that is always the path to growth. So we wanna understand our behaviors, our behavior patterns, how we're showing up, and how that may be related to our vice, and then what a new behavior might be that embodies [00:25:00] our virtue. So the vice of the seven. Is gluttony and it's always, it's a little
Audra Dinell: A bit hard
Mandy Shoemaker: when I'm
Audra Dinell: doing
Mandy Shoemaker: work with
Audra Dinell: with people when
Mandy Shoemaker: when you
Audra Dinell: you start.
Mandy Shoemaker: about you don't, you kind of wanna get to know somebody a little bit before you tell them what their vice is, right? And then kind of helping them understand that, like, gluttony, that doesn't mean that I'm just, I'm going to eat all the food on the table.
I'm gonna drink all the, you know, that typical gluttonous type of, behavior that we picture. But gluttony is more like, I'm gonna indulge myself by avoiding pain and discomfort. So we also have. Driving. Oh, I, I have a, I have some notes here that help me. Yeah. Driving ideals like things that we just our core fears. And [00:26:00] so the core fear for the seven is being stuck in pain. Being stuck in discomfort. we are constantly looking for ways to kind of soothe ourselves to, to avoid that. and so then that's where we might give in to some of those core fears why we might give into that vice because we're avoiding the pain or discomfort.
Audra Dinell: I know a way that this really presented for me that we talked about, and it's okay if my vice is a seven is gluttony, it's experiences, it's yes to everything that is presented to me because the core fear there is missing out. Like, oh, I don't wanna miss out on something that I would love or that could change me or that could grow me or give me other opportunities.
So that's like a very. Just practical way that I realized, oh, [00:27:00] okay. This is why I'm constantly overwhelmed. I'm saying yes to all the things.
Mandy Shoemaker: Yes, because I don't wanna miss out. I mean, you hit the nail on the head, you hit the nail on the head, and I mean, I remember when we were talking about it and it was like following up on a prior conversation that we had had, and then you were like, oh my gosh, I got all these things, you know, and I'm like. I
Audra Dinell: Yep.
Mandy Shoemaker: to, you know, and so the, the idea is if we can use this knowledge as a filter to say, okay, for us it's a world of possibilities that we wanna experience all the joy, all the adventures, everything that fills us up. And it's not. In a selfish way necessarily, because for you it's like, so that I can grow and be the best mom I can be, be the best business owner I can be help people as a coach, I can help people more. And so it's not that these things are all selfish, but it's. [00:28:00] That it ends up, you said, I'm overwhelmed. I have too much, I get spread too thin. I have a hard time focusing. Like all of those things are side effects whatever thing we are being gluttonous about.
Audra Dinell: Yeah.
Mandy Shoemaker: And so our virtue is sobriety. And the thought is, if I have a filter, if I understand what my vice is, I know that target for us sobriety and sobriety is just really making the right choice for me. Making a choice that isn't gonna lead me down that same hole. And so, and as you know, I have a lot of experience with 12 Steps and Recovery.
And it does, and you think about that's. A path to sobriety? Well, it really, that is one of the ways that has really helped me create this filter that helps me go from [00:29:00] gluttony to sobriety. And it might even be me seeing myself as a victim in a story that somebody's wronged me. And so I'm gonna give in to avoiding looking at maybe, hmm, maybe I had a part in that. I'm gonna get caught up in the narrative and my victimhood rather than addressing the resentment that I have against that person. And so that I can forgive whatever and make that next right choice and not have to live in that narrative. Seeing that path was something that really, really helped me grow beyond that need of, and I still catch myself doing it sometimes of like living in this narrative where I'm a, a victim or something, that somebody wronged me in some way. So for me it's looking at, is there something here that I'm being gluttonous about and what filter can I put that through? And then thinking about it from a, [00:30:00] will this decision create more problems for me or will it solve problems for me? Or, really looking at the, and that's at sevens, we don't tend to always think about the consequences, the risks. Those kinds of things.
Audra Dinell: Yeah, but our, our sobriety filter. Yeah.
Mandy Shoemaker: Totally. And we tend to feel and act. So we have a feeling that we like or don't like, and we act in a way that gets us more of that feeling or less of that feeling, rather than thinking about do, should we take that action? Because in the long term, is it gonna get us more or less of that feeling?
Audra Dinell: Yeah. Yes. Amen. That is hitting home. Hitting home. Okay, so. It is just exciting to hear this type of work. How can working with an Enneagram coach help someone? [00:31:00] Is everyone looking to grow when they're working with a coach? Are they like, why do people come to Enneagram coaches?
Mandy Shoemaker: So I think there's two different ways. Enneagrams out there a lot on social media. There's a lot of content creators that are, creating kind of fun
Audra Dinell: Mm-hmm.
Mandy Shoemaker: content. And so that's, think just an enjoyable way to learn about yourself and other people. So I think. people are like, Ooh, I want somebody, I wanna go deeper in Enneagram.
Historical background of the Enneagram
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Mandy Shoemaker: And so that's kind of how you and I like you already knew about Enneagram and we had talked about it and you're like, yeah, let's do some coaching around it so that you can go deeper because you saw it as already a great tool.
So that's one way I think people just become familiar with it and they find somebody who's certified Enneagram practitioner and wanna know more about how they can use it as a personal growth tool. I'm also personal development coach, [00:32:00] and so I use it. For 90 plus percent of my clients, whether they come to me and say, I'd love to do Enneagram with you, we talk about Enneagram and it, for me, it's like a fast track. self-awareness and growth. I was meeting with a client earlier this morning and we were kind of just talking, we were sort of just telling stories and she's young. She's in her twenties.
Personal journey with Enneagram
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Mandy Shoemaker: I actually really love coaching young adults. She's a student at NYU. Just found me on the internet
Audra Dinell: Oh,
Mandy Shoemaker: just, it's been this,
Audra Dinell: cool.
Mandy Shoemaker: a really cool experience.
Audra Dinell: And.
Mandy Shoemaker: She said, gosh, all of these things you're telling me, that's just so mature. And so we talked about emotional maturity and how I feel like there's really three components to emotional maturity and that is self-awareness, resilience, and, looking at your own behavior patterns. And so are these things that I really want to [00:33:00] continue? I feel like Enneagram really just fast tracks the ability with coaching for me to be able to help my clients understand their motivations.
Audra Dinell: Mm.
Mandy Shoemaker: coaching is all about asking the right questions.
Audra Dinell: Yeah.
Understanding defense mechanisms through Enneagram
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Mandy Shoemaker: so if I have an understanding of their type and they do too, then I can say is like, I end up coaching a fair amount of twos, and the, the vice for the twos is pride. I can come in and save the day. I, picture myself with this cape and I'm the only, I'm the only one who can do this. And so then they get super overwhelmed because they're saving the day for everyone around them
Audra Dinell: Yeah.
Mandy Shoemaker: saving the day for them. And they've also been conditioned to not acknowledge their own needs, they don't know why they're overwhelmed and burned out.
So we try to flip the script and, you know, I'll say, well, do you think pride. Has anything to [00:34:00] do with you, those decisions that you made and what could Humility. Humility is the virtue.
Learning about different Enneagram types
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Mandy Shoemaker: And so what could a decision that embodies humility look like in this way? And how could that benefit you?
Audra Dinell: Yeah, I think we move so fast that if we don't take time to slow down, pause, look inward, we may not actually really know our own motivations. We might even think we know our motivations, but that just might be. Surface level, and this is real human work to dig in and figure this out for yourself.
Benefits of professional Enneagram assessment
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Mandy Shoemaker: I mean, one of the things that I'm working on that I will use as a tool with clients is an energy audit and looking [00:35:00] at where we're putting our energy. And being intentional about where that energy is going and when we understand this part of ourselves, our motivations, and we can unknowingly be putting a ton of energy into something creating a negative experience for
Audra Dinell: Mm.
Mandy Shoemaker: And so, you know, for you by all these things that you get excited about that are new and fun and whatever, oh, now I see that they're actually, in some ways they could be a drain
Audra Dinell: Yeah,
Mandy Shoemaker: So it can help me. Yeah. So it can help me open my eyes. I mean, that's, we could talk for an hour about distraction.
Audra Dinell: Oh, I know, right? We, we do an energy audit in the thread in our workshops too. And yeah, so I think that's a really cool tool. I could talk Enneagram all day and I feel like this, like you said, this podcast should have been like part one of 10.
Mandy Shoemaker: I
Audra Dinell: there,
Mandy Shoemaker: [00:36:00] I
Audra Dinell: there.
Mandy Shoemaker: really deep in some areas and we didn't cover a lot of areas, but that's okay.
Audra Dinell: Yes, there. I mean, there's no way. It's just one of those tools that it is not, simple for a reason. But for our listeners who want to find you, want to learn more, just give us maybe one last nugget that you would suggest and how they find you.
Mandy Shoemaker: Yeah. Well, I would say if this kind of growth sounds interesting to you, that then that I would highly recommend doing Enneagram with any Enneagram practitioner. I would definitely use a. Reliable assessment tool. So the free ones out there, probably not the most reliable but there are several reliable tools out there.
IEQ nine is the one that I'm certified in. There's one called the Compass that is Beatrice Chestnut and EO PIs. there's one called the [00:37:00] Ready, which is the Russ Hudson one. And Ian Kron just came out with his, so, feel free to look into what those kind of different schools have thought.
There's more the Enneagram Institute and are more. I, EQ nine, the one that I'm certified in, is always surveying what's happening in the landscape of Enneagram and incorporating all the different of thought into the assessment. And so if you were interested in doing it with me my website is my purpose-built life.com, and there's just a little contact form you could fill out and I'll, I can get in touch with you.
I do something that I just call a mini Enneagram exploration, so it's not really based on coaching. It's more based on learning the Enneagram, learning your type, so that you can use the tool, the report tool that you get from the I EQ nine for your own personal development. So to set you up to [00:38:00] be able to take that and run with it yourself. And then I also use it as the foundation for my regular personal development coaching. So whether that's coaching people through a transition or into, making a big decision, or if they're just having a really hard time, if they're burned out, overwhelmed, super stressed helping people readjust and realign life
Audra Dinell: Yeah, I think the mini Enneagram exploration is just such a great way to get started after taking that IEQ nine test, it's just a really great deep dive, so I would highly recommend it. Mandy, thank you for.
Mandy Shoemaker: yeah, that's $250, so it's a pretty good value. Two sessions and the assessment and yeah.
Using Enneagram as a tool for growth
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Mandy Shoemaker: So
Audra Dinell: Oh yeah. That's great. Mandy, thank you for being here today.
Mandy Shoemaker: Yeah. Thanks for having me. It
Audra Dinell: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Okay, well we will talk to you again. Hopefully. Thank you.
Mandy Shoemaker: I.
Audra Dinell: I think we will. [00:39:00]