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Dr. John Sherk, owner and president of Operations Laboratory reveals all of his HVAC technician career happiness strategies, income improvements and killer tech-happiness tips and tricks so you can get ahead of the curve with your HVAC technician career. Discover how you can create a quality negotiated agreement with your manager that works for you so that you can have the time and freedom to do what you love, whether it’s coaching your kids’ teams, getting out there for hunting season, or just living comfortably at home with your family. Since 2010, he’s been consulting his many HVAC clients on how to develop and manage a culture that is friendly to tech-happiness, and here he openly shares his wins, his losses, and all the lessons in between with the community of energetic but humble HVAC techs, managers, and owners who follow him. Self-proclaimed “Technician Happiness Guru” you’ll learn about getting paid what you deserve, building genuine and loyal relationships at work and at home, recruiting winners (tip: they all already work for someone else), building a tech-happy culture, quality communication, skills mastery, optimizing performance, negotiating compensation, professionalism, , and productivity tips so that you create an amazing, tech-happy life without burning yourself out. It’s a mix of interviews, special co-hosts and solo shows from John you’re not going to want to miss. Hit subscribe, and get ready to change your life.
00:02 Well, everybody welcome to the HVAC JoyLab podcast. I am joined by Alexander. it's Danish. It's weird. I'm sorry.
00:15 I don't know. It's fine. It's fine. I just drew a blank right when he got there. He is, he is joining us from Copenhagen, Denmark right now.
00:22 Yeah. And I'm down here in South Louisiana. And so we're just kind of across the world having a conversation about happiness at work, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
00:30 So, Alexander, let me just give you the floor for a minute. Please introduce yourself, talk to us about happy hours nine to five and leading with happiness, kind of what you do with woohoo ink and all of that.
00:41 Yeah, and also thank you for inviting me for for this chat. I'm so super excited. Also excited to learn a little bit more about your world because here in Denmark, nobody has air conditioning.
00:51 It's just not a thing here. And with global warming and everything, if you see me sweating a little bit, It's a nice warm summer day in Copenhagen, and no aircon.
01:01 We should get on that. Anyway, so for the last 25 years, my field has been happiness at work. I came out of the tech industry, left that in 1990, sorry, 2000.
01:15 And I was like, now what I want to do, and I realized my true passion in life is happiness at work.
01:20 It's always been a person like a driver for me. Personally, I refuse to do work that I hate. life life is just too short and then I was like you know somebody should focus on that and I don't think anybody else stated at the time I do believe I was the first to to like specifically call it happen and
01:37 set work and talk about how you create a happy workplace where people you know actually like to work I've been doing that for like I said 25 years I almost 25 years I do most of what most of my work is I do talks and workshops for clients around the world.
01:53 So either companies or conferences, I've been to over 50 different countries to speak about this. Wow. Yeah. So I've seen how this works in many different industries in many different companies, in many different countries around the world.
02:07 I've been to every continent except Antarctica. I really want a South Pole research to invite me down some days and come speak so I can complete the set.
02:18 Yeah. My first book is called Happy Hour is 9.5, which is basically sort of like the foundation of happiness at work, what is it, how is it defined, how do you make it for yourself?
02:29 And then my latest book is called Leading with Happiness, where I look at what business leaders can do to create more happiness at work for themselves and for their employees and also happiness for their customers by the way, which I think we're going to talk about that, but I think it's going to be
02:41 hugely relevant for your audience. that's basically what I do because I think, you know, we live in a world where everybody has to work, right?
02:48 unless you have billionaire parents, you are going to have to spend a large part of your life working. And if that's the world we live in, I think working should be a good experience and not something that stresses you out and you know, make sure you burn out.
03:01 So, so talk to me some about your framework for that. Like when you say, okay, so what's, what is your framework for happiness at work?
03:09 Yeah, that's a great question. And for me, it's all about looking at the research. We have phenomenal research, like fascinating stuff that covers like hundreds of thousands of test subjects on what actually makes people happy at work.
03:24 And it's not what most people think, right? It's not the salary, but interestingly, it's not bonuses. It's not like your title or your perks or your pension plan or your compensation or that all of that stuff matters because if it's not fair, it can make you unhappy.
03:41 But those are no
t the things that make us happy at work. And again, I've talked to so many people who are like lawyers, for instance, right?
03:49 They're usually very well paid and very often very miserable. what is my framework for happiness work is that if you want to be happy at work, there are two things you need to look for.
03:58 And we again, this is our model. It's results and relationships are the two, and I think according to the research, the two main things that make us happy at work.
04:07 So just to unpack that a little bit results is when you do good work like you're good at what you do You you have the right skills you can you know grow your skills and learn about new techniques new technologies new tools new applications of what you do and What makes us especially happy is I think
04:25 when we get meaningful results when I can see that my work helps somebody who really needs it I'm not just you know checking off to do the items on my to do list I'm actually helping people.
04:39 In my case, when I give a talk and somebody tells me this talk really inspired me, you gave me tools to become happy on my own while we're at work.
04:46 That's the kind of thing that's amazing for me. So results make us really happy at work, there's a ton of research on that.
04:53 And then the other thing we need to be happy to work is good relationships. Actually liking the people we work with, having good relationship with you or if you are the boss, having good relationship with your employees, if you're an employee, having good relationship with your co-workers, your manager
05:06 , and possibly even clients, you know, I would assume that your audience has like repeat customers a lot. And building good relationship with them where they're actually like you and trust you, you're not just out to fleece them, you're not just out to sell them the most expensive solution right now,
05:24 you're actually out to help them and build a relationship with them over time. That is incredibly fulfilling and the research which is very clear that if you hate the people you work with, you're going to be miserable, this is the way it is, especially if your boss is a jerk, that's the worst.
05:41 But if you like the people you work with, if you trust them, if you know them, not just as co-workers, but also as human beings, that is definitely an advantage.
05:50 Yeah, I can tell you the air conditioning technicians who listen to this podcast, they will all know what they all thought of when you said that you do work and it makes someone else happy or it's meaningful for that reason to come up to a customer's house when the air conditioning is not working, it
06:08 is like the Lord of the Manor has arrived and they're so happy to see you. And then there's a moment when you can hear the air conditioner kind of click on and everyone goes, yes.
06:21 They're like, oh, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Yes. Every technician knows that feeling. Yes, that's going to be helping people, right?
06:29 making their day better, making their lives better. And again, we live in a, we live in a heating world. It's getting hotter and hotter in some areas of the world.
06:38 Air conditioning is not about comfort. It's about life or death. It's kind of, I don't, death would be a little extreme, but it's would be impossible to operate a business in South Louisiana without air conditioning.
06:49 For instance, right? Yeah. And also, yeah. And we know that like in a heatwave, of elderly people when the air conditioning fails, they are very vulnerable.
06:58 So, you're not just out there creating comfort in some cases you are improving people's health, and in some cases probably saving their lives.
07:06 Yeah, yeah, it's, we in this industry really kind of found ourselves as kind of first responders during COVID, like, I don't know if we thought of ourselves that way before then, but those lines were drawn that were like, Is this necessary or not if it's not necessary everybody stays home and it turns
07:27 out it was necessary Yeah, and air conditioning thrived as an industry during COVID because everybody still needed 70 degree air I mean, it just is what it is, you know that makes that makes so much sense I make so much sense and I can I just say that Denmark huge open market come on over.
07:44 Okay. Okay Business here Okay, yeah, and it's those markets are it's growing that way like I'm I grew up further north in the US.
07:53 And we had air conditioning, but it was, it was not everybody did. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't in northern Indiana, it's not the same thing.
08:02 When you're in in super high humidity, routinely 100 degrees Fahrenheit temperatures, there's just no way to function without it, not realistically.
08:14 So it is what it is. So one of the things I talk about with technicians, a good bit. We talk about the grind.
08:20 And I want to get your thoughts on this. That following, you know, the research of Michael chick sent me high on the flow research.
08:30 That when a technician gets started, it isn't fun because he's not good at it yet. Yeah. And that there's a period of maybe two years of what I call the grind.
08:42 You just have to, there's not, there's still grinding after that, but it is the grind until you reach a threshold of competence that you feel good about it, and that pleasure kicks in of being good at something and doing it.
08:55 So what does that fit into your framework? I think a lot of people experience that. I think you're going to, you know, if you're an IT, it's going to be the same, right?
09:05 You graduate with your masters of bachelor's in coding, and then you go out and find a job, and you meet the real world, and you're like, oh my God, this is way more complicated than I thought.
09:13 I think a lot of I think a bus driver is going to be the same right yeah you get a license to drive a bus But navigating city traffic is probably a whole different deal So here's what I think You could you could be down on yourself for not being good at your job yet Or you could enjoy the whole beginner's
09:32 mindset where you're like oh my god I have so much to learn this is amazing Yeah, and then don't you know there makes very little sense to beat yourself up But for not being as good as somebody who's been in the field for years, I know it's very easy to compare yourself to the masters in your field and
09:49 say, why can't they do that? Why can't I do that? And you'll get there, but the more you beat yourself up, for not being there yet along the way, the harder it's going to be, the harder it will be to learn.
10:01 So that, but that whole phase of, you know, this field is new and exciting can actually be a lot of fun provided provided provided you go into it with that mindset of you know I know I know my limitations I'm gonna seek help wherever I can I'm gonna seek input wherever I can I'm gonna you know study
10:19 and learn new things and learn you you know discover new tools and techniques if you go into it with that mindset that whole period can actually be a ton of fun Interesting.
10:29 Yeah, and I've, so I just mentioned that before we started talking. My wife and I took up swing dancing seven years ago and seven years ago we were not very good.
10:43 But you can't be right when you're just starting out in a new kind of dance. But we enjoyed the whole process of discovering, oh my god, you can do this step and you can do this step and you can do this variation.
10:57 You could do it like this. And that whole process of discovery is just amazing. And then you do that for seven years, and now we're getting in all modesty, we're getting pretty, pretty darn good.
11:06 Yeah. So there's that whole beginner's mindset. I think that's incredibly important to cultivate in yourself, to enjoy the process of learning.
11:15 And by the way, I think, that goes, I think the grizzled veterans who've been in this field for 20 years, maybe they get a little stuck in their ways, right?
11:24 Maybe there's like, there's my way. I've always done it way. Maybe there's a better way now. Maybe there's somebody smarter out there.
11:32 Maybe you as a, you know, somebody who's been in this field for years could learn something from the newcomers who are coming into this with an open mind and no preconceived ideas.
11:41 Yeah, good thoughts. So I'll keep throwing some scenarios at you. I just want you to see back on it. So the average air conditioning technician works in a very physically demanding environment.
11:53 Yeah. He's in an attic that's, you know, 140 degrees sometimes, the commercial industrial guys are wearing fire r******** uniforms that have little sleeves and there's a very real physical component that is just draining to an air-conditioning mission.
12:12 Talk to me about that dynamic and happiness at work. Yeah. Of course, you know, if you break your body down doing your job, you're going to be miserable.
12:21 You know, if you throw out your back because you're, you know, lifting too heavy or crawling in tight spaces, that that's going to cost you your health, potentially going to cost you your job, and if nothing else is going to make you miserable.
12:32 So take care of yourself, right? I, I, again, I know very little of your industry, but what, you know, what safety equipment exists?
12:41 How can you make sure to take breaks in your work day? How can you, I know this thing from construction workers is that they start the work they by libering up, right?
12:52 They do stretching exercises. So their bodies are actually warm when they go into the physically demanding work. Yeah. So my message here is take care of yourself, right?
13:04 Make sure you get your breaks, make sure you get vacation, make sure you're in a physical shape where you can actually do this work.
13:11 If you need to limber up, if you need to stretch in order to do it, if you need to do some strength training in order to be able to, I don't know, make sure that your work is not wearing you down.
13:23 Proper lifting technique is like a very fundamental thing. But in the middle of all that grind and in the middle of wanting to serve your customers as best you can, you cannot sacrifice your own health to do that.
13:38 That is a bad trade-off. I don't think your customers would want you to do that either if it was at the expense of your own health and wellbeing.
13:46 Well, and this is a very common problem. You guys in the audience, you know, this is true. And you get about 20 years in and it feels like I'm only 45, but this body is not working like it used to.
13:57 Yeah. Let me, I'll, I have whole podcast on this in the, if you look at HVAC joy lab, we'll go back and find them.
14:04 But the two things I want to really emphasize for the audience, one, don't start using your knee pads because your knees start hurting.
14:13 Use them before they hurt. Yes, right like the all there's plenty of gear available to protect you and there's kind of a feeling like Oh, I don't have time for that and then you accumulate all this crawling around in an attic and it adds up and then once you Once your knees have gone to a certain place
14:30 you can't I mean There's a place you can't get back to after you've done it And so just realize that take the time to use the right equipment now and then prevent that in the future because once it's there you can help with some knee pads but your knees are really in a bad place then and there's nothing
14:46 you can really do about it. As a great point. The other thing for the audience is go back to the podcast on we did what I did with Adam Kuhlman on body heat dumping that there's some very good result in bringing you in them as Alexander there's some very good research that says when your Your internal
15:06 body heat goes up basically that our metabolism takes those big macronutrients and converts them to ATP, which is energy in our cells.
15:18 And then there's a hormone called pyruvate kinase that is required for that transition to happen. So for the food you eat to become energy, that hormone has to be there.
15:27 When your body heat goes up, your body reduces and stops making that hormone, which is the cause of what we call heat exhaustion.
15:33 It's the reason when your body goes up, you get tired, right? Interesting. So, especially some guys out at Stanford said, what is the best fastest way to dump heat from your body?
15:47 And it turns out it's the part of your face that doesn't grow hair, the palms of your hands, and the bottoms of your feet, right?
15:55 If you put some kind of compact and the low 50 degree Fahrenheit range on those places, is the research shows you can return your body heat to normal in about three minutes.
16:06 Fantastic. If all you do is just walk into a 70-degree room and just kind of go, it takes almost an hour for it to go back to normal.
16:15 So in real time, as a guys in the field, he doesn't have an hour to do that, right? So for you guys in the field, remember this stuff.
16:24 There's stuff you can buy we talk about in the podcast that some of it's expensive, some of it's not, or you can just go to a faucet, Turn on the faucet and let the water run over the palms of your hands for three minutes Right, and you can dump heat out of your body faster than if you just kind of let
16:38 it kind of come off of you That's amazing. Yeah, so these are really important things for these guys to know because it really is I mean the The situations these guys find themselves in is sometimes remarkably demanding like really really really, you know, 140 degrees on a roof is not abnormal.
17:00 And that's whether it's that. And also just to add on to that, I would assume that most of most technicians are men.
17:08 And there can be a little bit of a macho culture. Knee pads are for sissies or that kind of thing.
17:15 Yeah. And that's, of course, nonsense. You know, take care of yourself. You only have the one body. And you, and you want to be able to do this work, you know, pain free and without hurting your health.
17:26 There's a kind of a funny dynamic that the guys who were sort of the veteran guys will often say in private, man, these younger guys are soft.
17:35 We were so tough. But if you get to the guys who were the generation before them, they were saying the same thing for those guys when they were coming up.
17:50 Yeah. like they're complaining about how soft youths are these days. This goes back three thousand years. Old people always complain about young people.
17:59 That's just the way it is. Yeah, that's right, that's right. So one more, this has to do with career path.
18:05 So an average technician, when they get to about 10 years in, if they don't become sort of like a manager or become a service manager, some other kind of thing, they're kind of at a plateaued place in their career.
18:21 So when you, let's say you're 38 years old, you're very good at your job. But you've kind of reached that spot.
18:31 Yeah. And you know, not crazy about going to start your own business, but there's not somewhere else to go. And so talk to me about that situation on happiness.
18:43 Yeah. So here's the thing. If you can transition to being a company or owning your own company or being a manager in somebody else's company, that would be amazing.
18:52 I mean, if again, if you would be good at that, because here's the thing, not everybody who's good at being an age-vac technician will be good at leading other age-vac technicians.
19:01 Those are two very different skillsets. I come from the IT industry, tech industry originally. Let me tell you, some, there are very many brilliant coders who become terrible managers, because what makes your good software developer is almost diametrically opposed to what makes somebody a good manager
19:21 . And this is a problem in many industries because there is this perception that after a certain amount of time you ought to be a manager, right?
19:32 And almost if you don't, you're kind of a failure. Even if, as again, in IT, even if you enjoy coding software, that's what you love it.
19:41 You're super good at it. You've been doing it for a decade. there might be this feeling of failure because you're not yet risen to management.
19:48 An inspiration for your field might be what we've done in tech which is talking about lateral career development. So instead of rising ups become a manager, maybe you can become more of a specialist, maybe you could work on more technical projects in your field, maybe you could become more of a designer
20:07 of systems rather than somebody who's out there physically installing these systems, that kind of, that could be an interesting career development that might actually be more interesting for some people who are just really good at their field but would actually be terrible managers because leading people
20:28 is a skill in itself that not everybody has. Does that make sense at all? It sure does. Yeah, and I would say the way this plays out in the their conditioning is less technical, but heavier and customer service, there's much more of a face-to-face relationship with a customer, and so some technicians
20:49 , they really, what I usually say is they have to be, they have to love one and be sufficient in the other, customer service and tech.
20:58 So if you love the mechanical side, you just have to be good enough at customer service or if you love customer service, then you just have to be good enough at the mechanical stuff, right?
21:09 And if the mechanical stuff is what you love, then I know it can feel like a big change, but if you're in the residential side, go find yourself a job in a commercial mechanical maintenance company where they're not tied to a specific manufacturer and you can work on cooling towers and chillers and just
21:32 a whole range of different kinds of equipment, different kinds of there's, you know, there's all manner of growth areas there, go, go have fun, go do it.
21:43 Yeah, yeah. And again, I mean, the whole idea of starting your own business is if you like that kind of thing, if you're that kind of person, it's amazing.
21:54 I am that kind of person. I don't think I could have a salary job ever again in my life. I've been there.
22:00 No, it's not for me. I have to be my own boss. But again, this is not, that comes with all of his own challenges starting your own company, right?
22:10 And maybe you would enjoy those challenges. I think that, again, for me, the important thing here is whenever you make a career decision, like choose your career path, don't just choose what you think you should, or what everybody else does, or what people expect of you, do what makes you happy, right
22:28 ? Choose, make career decisions that work for you, because you're the one who actually has to do the work. So maybe you start your own company and you find it incredibly stressful that every month you have to worry if you can make payroll or you have to be out there selling to customers and maybe you
22:44 hate that part of the business. find, make career choices that'll make you happy. And then once you're in a job somewhere, find ways of doing that job that you enjoy.
22:57 What is it that makes you take? Are you like are you somebody who's very good with customers? Is that the part of the the business that you enjoy is actually being out there Interacting with people are you somebody who enjoys learning new skills?
23:09 Are you somebody who enjoys being like very professional and good at their job figure out what what makes you happy at work and then seek out more of that?
23:18 Yeah, so let me here's another scenario. This one is a little more complicated technician solid skill set Got married. It's got a couple of little kids.
23:30 He finds he'd really rather maybe do something else or work somewhere else But there's a threat to the wellness of his family the well-being of his family for him to make a change Yeah, and he's living in his head space where he's not going to work because he wants to he's going to work because he has
23:44 to Yeah, like what talked to me about this person in happiness. Yeah So I think I don't think that's that is sustainable in the long run I mean, if it's, if it's, if it's go to work or your family loses their house, then you go to work, right?
24:01 But maybe you also start working on what could the next thing be. And maybe you start looking at other career paths, other options, what other jobs are out there, figure out why is your current job not working for you?
24:13 Is it the work itself? Is it the people you work with? Is it the hours, the commute, whatever? work. So you have an idea of what to avoid in the next job.
24:23 Also look at what's currently working in your current job. What do you like about it? So you know what you should look for in your next job.
24:30 But this idea that it used to be a very common idea that we just worked for the money. And then hopefully you can retire as soon as possible.
24:41 So you don't have to work anymore. It's the slave, save, and retire model. And especially a lot of older generations are still very much stuck in that.
24:50 You work as something I do because I have to younger generations or have shifted their mindset on this a lot.
24:56 And they actually expect to like what they do and to be treated well in the workplace. So so and I admire that a lot about the younger generations.
25:06 And I think I think we all I think we all need to do that. So maybe if your whole family is economically dependent on your paycheck, maybe you don't quit tomorrow, but maybe you start working towards the time where you can do something else that will make you even happier.
25:24 And I will say this, if your job is frustrating you, if you don't like what you do, you can do it for a while for the sake of your family, but maybe your family would also be happier if you actually like your job.
25:37 Yeah. So you don't come home from work every day, tired, stressed, and frustrated, and you know, and you take it out in the dog or the, or the your partner or your kids, or yeah, right?
25:47 Yeah. I really think too, there's a dynamic in an air conditioning technicians life that has to do with proactivity. anyone as a little kid is playing HVAC tech.
26:01 They're playing Cowboys Indians, fireman, no one's dreaming someday they're going to be an age-fact technician, they just sort of found their way into it.
26:10 And then their life every day, they don't know what's going to happen tomorrow, they don't know where they're going tomorrow.
26:15 So all of the major moments of their day, someone is telling them what to do next, right? And just the way it's organized.
26:23 And so I really think for a lot of technicians, it's easy to start feeling like you're not actually in charge of your own life.
26:31 Sure. And to some degree, this little illustration I've used, like imagine taking a piece of chalk and just drawing a circle around yourself on the floor and just saying, everything inside this circle, I'm entirely, that's entirely mine, I'm entirely in control of it.
26:47 Anybody can give me direction that they want to, but it's up to me whether I do it. Yeah. Just recapture the sense that I am actually in control of all of this.
26:56 I'm choosing to do these things. It isn't just I'm blowing, getting blown and tossed by whatever's the next swim. Exactly, exactly.
27:03 But also here, I think there's also a lesson here for the workplaces, right? Because there are ways of planning the work where actually involve your employees.
27:10 Instead of just saying, you go here, you go there. I know there are companies that have like internal task lists and then people actually choose themselves.
27:19 You know what? Can I do that project? It's close to where I live. It's actually, I'm very good at it.
27:23 think that would be fun. That kind of thing. I know there are, for instance, there are companies where employees choose their own works schedule.
27:32 They just, instead of the managers saying, you know, you work from here, from these hours of that hour, everybody's like, we need, we need this many people at work here, this many people at work here, and then employees talk together and figure out, you know, actually, that's my kids birthday.
27:44 I'd love to have the day off. Could you take that shift? Yeah. So there are actually proven ways for companies to give their employees is that sense of autonomy in their own work day.
27:55 And that's the kind of thing that makes people really happy at work. I'll tell you what, that the, just for context, I don't know what the workforce is like in Denmark, but I can tell you in the US, we have the lowest unemployment in history and there's a vast shortage in all of the skill trades, welding
28:15 , plumbing, all of them. There's a shortage of talent And it's it's chain. This is what my I wrote my PhD in this stuff that this is the the the concept of work and the experience of work is changing because already has a job that can be employed.
28:33 And so when they're considering other jobs are only considering it from a job they're already in. And the idea that it would cost me too much to leave this job is evaporating.
28:44 It's going away. And the one of the things that's happening is alternative scheduling. I know of a contractor up in Kentucky, another state in the US, where he's got almost like a nursing calendar where he's got guys who only work 12 hours shifts on Saturday and Sunday, and that's their whole week.
29:01 And they've got other, you know, kind of worked out kind of jigsaw puzzle scheduling because it accommodates the technicians and they want to work for them in part because of that.
29:14 Yeah. I love that kind of thing. Oh, and speaking of speaking of people falling into like the age-back industry, right?
29:21 the thing. You know, if you're working with your hands and you're saying, like, hard physical work, It might be tempting to be envious of people who work in air conditioned offices, right?
29:31 But here's the thing. You could look at that ad executive who's making a pretty good salary. But honestly, their jobs suck.
29:40 You know, you work really hard and the customers are never happy. And if you do a really good job, maybe this, you know, washing powder company sells 1.8% more washing powder, I'm detergent.
29:51 I don't know, right? Where is the fulfillment? And where's the purpose? Where's the meaning of that kind of work? Or as more like jobs that are more like physical labor, have like, they're more purposeful.
30:04 They could be more fulfilling. A bus driver, you know, you're taking people to work, you're taking kids to school safely and on time.
30:13 That's incredibly important work. You're fixing people's air conditioning. That's a huge relief for them. You know, if you work, you know, sanitation workers.
30:23 If the garbage doesn't get collected that's that's not great All of these thoughts and this is interesting because we've tended to look down on a lot of these professions I think that's a huge mistake And also I think that's there's a reversal coming because the add executives and the lawyers are the
30:40 First people who will be replaced by AI But try replacing an age-backed technician with AI is not gonna happen. That's right.
30:47 A contractor, a carpenter, a plumber, it'll be a while before an optimist prime robot can on clog your drain. That's right.
30:57 yeah, I have the utmost respect for people who do these jobs and it's got to be so fulfilling. Again, that moment when the air conditioner clicks on and the house cools down, it's got to feel so good.
31:11 Oh, yeah. That's that every tech I talk to you, they all have that the pleasure of that moment when they customers like, oh, thank you so much.
31:19 Yes. That moment. You don't get that is if you were like heroes. Exactly. And if you work as a like a tax lawyer, you know, you know, you know, it's not going to happen.
31:27 That right. So I have one last question. try to dissect for me a little bit or maybe you would choose not to.
31:35 That's also an option. Like things like, I'll just give you three categories. Pleasure, happiness, and meaning. How do you craft that kind of point of view?
31:46 Oh yeah, that's a great question. We're going to have to get a little philosophical, is that okay? Please. Yeah. Awesome.
31:52 So, pleasure is for me, pleasure is watching a good movie or eating a piece of chocolate, or in my case, like going dancing, going to swing dancing with a wife.
32:04 That's that's pleasure. That's fun. It's nice Happiness on the other hand goes a little deeper and happiness for me is your is your overall emotional state over time Right and and and we all want to be happy I think that and this goes all the way back to Aristotle basically said that you know Happiness
32:23 all we wanted life and everything else we seek in life We seek because we think it'll make us happy and again, and I just want to make it clear nobody's happy all the time the whole happily ever after thing is a myth.
32:34 We all have good days and bad days. It's just that could we try, you know, could be living away where you have more and more bad days, I'm sorry, more and more good days, instead of more and more bad days, right?
32:45 And then meaning, meaning is for me, is how do you make the world a little bit better? Why is the world a little bit better because you're in it?
32:56 And you can find meaning in your work Unless, of course, you're in a profession that actually, that actively makes the world worse.
33:04 Let's say, yeah, about those professions, success, let's say you're an investment banker, and you buy up companies, and you strip them for parts, and you fire lay people off, and you sell the parts of the company off, like Gorken, Gecko, and Wall Street, right?
33:17 Greed is good. That kind of person. You're actively out there making the world worse, and there are a lot of industries like that.
33:28 So you can you can find meaning in your work. That's how my work makes the world a little bit better.
33:34 Again, I'm a bus driver. I get people to work in school safely and on time. You can make people you can make find meaning and charity work in your in your spare time, you know, work in a soup kitchen, clean up a local park, feed the homeless, whatever.
33:49 Or you can find meaning with your, you know, the people close to you, your family and your friends, and you can be a really good parent, a really good friend, a really good sibling, a really good family member.
34:00 But the important thing is this feeling, this is a very, very fundamental psychological human need is this need to know that I contribute, I make a difference.
34:11 I am valuable and the world is a little bit better because of the things I do because I exist. So for me, the way I see it is that happiness is the ultimate goal.
34:23 And happiness, that's what we all seek, whether it be at work or in our relationships, in our families, with our friends.
34:31 And pleasure is like a momentary happiness. A good cheeseburger makes me really happy. I'm not going to lie. And then meaning is a more sustainable way to achieve that happiness, because meaning pleasure is just about you, right?
34:48 That cheeseburger is good for me and nobody else, right? Whereas whenever I create, I do something that's meaningful and helps somebody else, it's good for me and for them.
35:00 And I'll just mention one study, which found that they measured how happy people were or chest subjects were, and then they had these people either do something nice for themselves or do something nice for someone else.
35:16 And the people who did something nice for themselves got a little bump in happiness and the people who did something nice for someone else got a much larger bump in happiness.
35:25 So it seems like this is hardwired into us. It's, we're just like making other people happy. that is probably the most fundamental truth about happiness is that if you see happiness only for yourself, you'll never get it because it's going to be an empty meaningless selfish pursuit.
35:43 But if you see happiness by making other people happy, that's how you that then it becomes meaningful. That's how you find it.
35:49 Interesting. Interesting. Well, Alexander, thank you so much for taking time to be on the HVAC JoyLab. My absolute pleasure. This has been a blast.
35:58 Oh, wow. Listen, you get some air conditioning and going over there in Denmark. Well, yeah. I'm seriously considering it now.
36:06 All right, so thanks for being here and we'll see you next time, everybody. My pleasure, take care.