Defining Hospitality

In this episode of Defining Hospitality, Dan interviews Alessia Genova, a noted interior design expert in the hospitality industry. Alessia shares her inspiring journey from starting as an intern at Tihany Design to becoming the company's principal and managing partner. With over 15 years of experience, Alessia discusses her passion for hospitality design, the importance of relationships and reputation, and the challenges and triumphs she encountered when taking over the company. The conversation offers valuable insights into maintaining high-quality standards, navigating career transitions, and balancing innovation with tradition in the design industry. She is an inspiration to hospitality professionals everywhere, you don’t want to miss this episode!

Takeaways: 
  • Identifying and communicating the mission behind what you do can energize and drive you and your team. In hospitality, for example, the goal might be to make people feel cared for during their journeys.
  • Building strong, lasting relationships within your industry—whether with clients, colleagues, or vendors—can be a foundation for long-term success.
  • Nurturing your team members and providing mentorship can foster a strong, supportive working environment. Encourage personal and professional growth through guidance and sharing knowledge.
  • For firms with a rich legacy, it’s essential to balance the respect for past accomplishments with the drive to innovate and explore new paths.
  • The COVID-19 pandemic was described as a non-linear challenge, indicating the importance of adaptability. Leaders must stay flexible and manage unforeseen changes effectively.
  • Focus on the quality of work and craftsmanship, from design to execution. Detailed project planning and immaculate attention to detail can set you apart.

Quote of the Show: “Eventually you grow and you understand that having an understanding of these spaces will help you also design them in a certain way.” - Alessia Genova

Links:

Shout Outs:

Ways to Tune In: 

Creators & Guests

Host
Dan Ryan
Host of Defining Hospitality
Producer
Rayanne Pruitt

What is Defining Hospitality?

Welcome to Defining Hospitality, the podcast focused on highlighting the most influential figures in the hospitality industry. In each episode we provide 1 on 1, in depth interviews with experts in the industry to learn what hospitality means to them. We feature expert advice on working in the industry, behind the scenes looks at some of your favorite brands, and in depth explorations of unique hospitality projects.

Defining Hospitality is hosted by Founder and CEO of Agency 967, Dan Ryan. With over 30 years of experience in hospitality, Dan brings his expertise and passion to each episode as he delves into the latest trends and challenges facing the industry.

Episodes are released every week on Wednesday mornings.

To listen to episodes, visit https://www.defininghospitality.live/ or subscribe to Defining Hospitality wherever you get your podcasts.

DH - Alessia Genova
===

[00:00:00] What I do is inconsequential. Why I do what I do is I get to shorten people's journeys every day. What I love about our hospitality industry is that it's our mission to make people feel cared for while on their journeys. Together we'll explore what hospitality means in the built environment, in business, and in our daily lives.

I'm Dan Ryan and this is Defining Hospitality.

Dan: Today's guest is an interior design connoisseur with a special focus in the hospitality world. She has over 15 years of experience designing for some of the most luxurious and iconic properties in the world. is a trailblazer at her company, being the first ever promoted to managing partner back in 2020, and she's now the principal.

At Tahani Design, ladies and gentlemen, Alessia Genova. Hello, Alessia. Welcome.

Alessia: Hi, Dan.

Dan: It's so good to see you. I, um, I've wanted to have this conversation a super long time. [00:01:00] And I know that, you know, having been a fellow New Yorker with you and been at all the places in Milan and New York and just seeing your career really just skyrocket.

And now you're, you're the principal at Tahani, which is like such an iconic firm and worked on such storied projects, which we'll talk about in a little while. But like, it's just so cool to have been on that like train life journey with other people where we kind of, I'm older than you, but like just starting kind of at one place and finishing up somewhere so incredibly, and not that we're finished by any stretch of the means, but like, I'm just so like awestruck and, and proud of you.

And like, you're just awesome. And thank you for coming on.

Alessia: Well, thank you, Dan, for having me and for these kind words. You know, I think you are the one of the first person I met in this [00:02:00] industry and, you know, like, uh, now, I mean, I have to buy a company to talk to you again. That's quite, uh, you know, demanding, but, uh, thank you for having me.

Dan: So we talk, and I want to get into that in a, in a minute, but like we talked to so many people from people who work at large companies, to, entrepreneurs, to people who are thinking about making the entrepreneurial leap. Um, But I don't think that we've spoken to anyone actually believed in the company so much that they're working in that they actually And I think that that's just really awesome and an incredible experience, um, that I I'm just happy for you to talk about, because I think, you know, there's the journey in life and business is it can go any which way.

There's like 1000 different directions. There's no one way to do anything. And, um, it's just incredible [00:03:00] to hear your story. And thank you for sharing. But before we get into it, um, you've been in hospital. You've been a designer for, um, sure almost as long as you can remember, um, and really focusing in hospitality for almost 20 years keeps you in hospitality.

Like, what does it mean to you? Why do you love it so much?

Alessia: Well, I don't know if I have like, um, one definition for hospitality, even, you know, if I knew this, this question was coming. So, um, you know, I, I, I think of it like every day now, because it is what I do. So I, I do think why I do what I do and why I love it. And I think, you know, the main reason is surely like the relationship I have in this industry with everyone, meaning like from the clients to the colleagues, to You know, the vendors and the people we, we [00:04:00] interact every day.

I mean, hospitality, I think is for me, it's like, uh, I say a people to people, uh, environments or, or, you know, relationship. And that depends if we talk about the hospitality industry, the hospitality design, you know, like, but every time we talk about hospitality is something that, uh, has to do with, uh, how we Make people feel, you know, and what we want for them to experience.

So it always goes to the first question, it always goes to feeling and, uh, you know, the care that we have for, for, for the others. So it's really like this personal relationship that, you know, then when we talk about design, we shape it through, through design, the different phases of design, you know, starting with, uh, you know, the way we, we see a space, we organize a space.

So the way [00:05:00] we move people through spaces and not just the guests, I mean, you know, if you think about hospitality and, and even the, the meaning like of hospitality and being hospital is about this relationship of the guest and the host. Right. So we, we've, we shape space that, um, Well, we need to take care of the two parties.

I mean, we need to take care of the guests, but we need to take care of the host because to host, to be a good host, and so he has to have a well planned environment for themselves, right? So, I mean, it goes from everything we do and we think is ultimately about, about, uh, People, people feeling and creating space where people can interact in a way that, that can create this, this special relationship.

Dan: Thank you. And want to go back to something when I introduced you, as far as working on some of the most iconic projects in our [00:06:00] industry, as far as like history goes. So, um, everything from the breakers to the Beverly Hills hotel, Do you want to rattle off a couple more? Because I just want to like set the stage for where the conversation is going to go as far as like looking back at like the foundation, also looking forward and how this provenance that you have, with, Is, is really like a great foundation, but also like the exciting paths forward you may take as leader of your company.

Alessia: yeah, I mean, I think, you know, one of the reason, uh, you know, I, I, I started here and I, you know, I'm leading, uh, I'm leading the firm today is because I always really, really appreciate it and share in a way other vision on, you know, deciding. What type of project, uh, to work on and, um, and to take on. And that's, it's truly something [00:07:00] that, you know, I hope I can, I can continue in the same, on the same philosophy and path, but I mean, there are like, let's say, uh, few or three like elements that are key every time we, we decide or evaluate what is the project that we want to do.

We would love to work on what we think is the right fit for our firm. And, you know, like the iconic project you mentioned is. I mean, who doesn't want to work on such a project? You know? So is the, is the pride of, uh, being able to be involved on such beautiful properties and, and you really do it because you love what you do.

I mean, you don't do it for, for, you know, other reason you really do it for the satisfaction that you can have on say, you know, like I, I, You know, I just was able to work on that property most of the time, you know, um, a property that you experience when you travel and you do, you know, you don't, don't necessarily spend all your vacation in all this property.

Uh, especially when you start as a very young designer, as I did, right. [00:08:00] I mean, as an intern, it was a dream of like going in these places and, uh, and, you know, and eventually you grow and, and you, you understand that. Having an understanding of these spaces will help you also design them in a certain way.

And then there are like other aspects, which are like, you know, that as a going back to the people, the people behind, uh, you know, the project and the people behind, uh, uh, these, uh, property always been very, very, Uh, kind people, I would say, like, you know, people that is a pleasure to work with, people that do respect and understand, uh, uh, design, well, they might have their own opinion, but you know, they, they take care of their property.

I mean, you know, talking about a couple of the one you mentioned, iconic, Um, this is what make us also good designers, I have to say, because, you know, we can do a good design that is well thought, is well, um, conceived, designed. I mean, eventually get it well executed, and then they take [00:09:00] good care. So, years pass by, and, you know, some of these, like, The Beverly Hills goes back more than 13 years ago.

I mean, I think when we really started design to completion, the breaker is more than 10 years. We work with that and you know, they eventually call back, um, and ask for like a refresh, which is kind of, if you think about it, a refresh, you're like, you know, you want to redesign it because you want to do it, but you think like, you know, they just want to refresh.

It means that they still like, uh, very, very relevant. And, you know, in a way they. They were able, as I said, to really keep it up to a good point. Um, but this is what, you know, what we are, I think, I would say good or what, what we like to do is to do things that last in time. And so go after also project that, uh, Um, have, um, I mean, they, they look for something that, you know, everyone talk about timeless today.

So I don't know if like, you know, what, what we define as a timeless, but [00:10:00] we don't go after trend. Usually we go after something that can be a very classic design. It can be a model design. It's not that we have a stamp on what we do. It's not that every, every design we do is very different

Dan: but I, I want to go into Timeless in a minute, but I really think about the two hotels, just the two hotels that we've mentioned, as far as the Breakers and the Beverly Hills Hotel, if you look at them as bookends or brackets, on the United States, on the continental United States. There aren't very many, I'll call them grand dams.

I don't know if I said that the right way of these types of projects or these types of properties that exist the United States. And, and that story of that opulence of whether it's Hollywood or Palm beach, like I remember as a kid, My grandmother lived nearby, like lived in Boca Raton. I remember my mom took me to the Breakers once and I had to wear like a blue blazer with [00:11:00] brass buttons and I had, I, she made me dance with her on the little, on like, it was almost like a cruise ship, like what I would envision that experience, like with the big band and all that.

But it It was a hotel and we had just, I remember the dinner, I remember dancing and being like really embarrassed, but, um, it's not often that people get to work on these types of projects. And I would say that level of project like that. What are there, 15 or less of those types of grand dams within the United States?

Maybe 10. Um, we could come up with a list, but we don't want to waste the time on that. But I, there's such like, um, a level of like respect and, and history that you were brought in to work on these projects. And it's, to me, it's the ultimate compliment to get business where they ask you to come back and how do you balance that?

Like these really iconic foundational projects [00:12:00] as a first principle foundation. then also as you, you know, you've, you're now the leader and owner of Tahani and you're plotting it and charting a course forward, how do you find that balance of like, Staying true to your roots, but also, you know, you're, you're vibrant, you're young, you're energetic, you're incredibly hardworking, you have an incredible team, like, and I know that you want, you're going other places as well, like. Walk us through that.

Alessia: I think is, um, well, that's, you know, the challenge I have. And, uh, Partially, as I said, you know, doing this, uh, you can call it trophy project, iconic project. And yeah, there are no, not as many, but there are like around the world, not just in the United States. It's something that, as I said, it's not as part of what the firm has been doing and that has been the reputation on.

So it's something that, you know, uh, as, As I said, everyone would be, uh, thrilled to do it. So, you know, I'm, [00:13:00] I'm super, I mean, for me, it's an honor to, to not only keep doing it, but doing it now under my leadership, because it really means that, you know, again, as a firm, uh, we are, we, we, the clients knows what we can deliver, and this is one of my first commitment, you know, then it's the going after other project that, you know, can show, you know, You know, a different sensibility because, you know, that, that are very specific and they are in a way similar to each other.

And they're also a renovation of, you know, they're not new build and stuff like that. So that's why in our, like, you know, portfolio in our, like, you know, um, range of project, these are something that I, I, there are a lot that if you ask me, like, which one you want to do, I have like, you know, a name for like, Project that could exist out there.

You know, we are doing that, but we are also doing, um, you know, some new high rise building, uh, that, you know, for a reason or another one have like the precarious and so can become like, you know, the one off or [00:14:00] the first off that I think is more of the philosophy. Like we always try to find. You know, iconic or something that has not been explored or something that you know, it's just the novelty of like, you know, and try to create a path.

And, and, you know, for example, um, to go back to your question and this, you know, how to express or so what I. My sensibility for it, we are expending more work in Europe and Italy because, you know, the type of project you do there is not comparable to the U. S. First of all, the scale of the project.

Second, you know, in Italy it's almost impossible to find a new build, so you almost have to deal all the time with, you know, All building and the sensibility is different. It's not Florida and it's not. So that is a way of showing, you know, a different aspect or, or a different part of, uh, what the firm can do, where the firm is going.

Uh, but you know, as you know, a few years ago, for example, we've, we've been the one, the first one doing, uh, luxury, um, [00:15:00] you know, expedition cruise. I mean, now like the cruise. It's like small yacht to yacht for like, uh, you know, all these, uh, luxury brand. It's something that, uh, is the norm. I mean, everyone is doing it.

Everyone is going after, but you know, like how many, like expedition crews there are, like with the design, you know, sensibility and things. And, you know, that's, that's what we go after. I think it's not just like, you know, the iconic, you can find something that. interior is not that iconic, but you can make it iconic in a way.

So this is a bit like the philosophy of like, when we, when we look for project, uh, there are some that can be a bit more, um, you know, like, uh, something we haven't, we haven't done or has not been really, really, uh, explored to the point where it should be, I think in the industry and, and that's what we are trying to, to do.

Dan: So I heard you say a couple of words repeatedly since we've been [00:16:00] talking. Uh, one was reputation and two is relationship and, and people maybe third is people. Um, obvious, maybe it's not obvious, but I really believe we all stand on the shoulders of those before us. Right. And when we, and I just also want to tap into a previous conversation I recently had with Julie Frank, who's now at Aspen hospitality. She worked at Tahani. She had. And Adam was like a real mentor to her and gave her some really great advice. That changed the course of her life. if I think of and I've met him a couple of times, I don't really know him, but like as I see him in the industry and the, and as a legend, right? But you've also been working here for nearly 20 years, and You've bought the company from him.

He's a mentor to you. Julie had this like sliding door moment where he gave her this advice to like go on a different path that was [00:17:00] unexpected. you were working there and really walk us through the conversation or the thinking where it was like, you're like, I love this place. I love the name. I love the reputation.

I love the people that work there. This is something really good. I also respect everything that had built and like, how did that conversation even come up? Was it like nerve wracking? Was it natural? Um, what gave you the courage to take those steps? Cause it's a huge undertaking. Um, not just financially as an investment and believing in this and making the investment, but it's an undertaking and just. Your life force and energy and making this all go forward. So just walk us through that. How did that, how did it all come to be, to be where you are right now?

Alessia: Well, you know, and you don't plan everything in your life, I think. And this is surely, let's say it was not planned to a certain point, but, you know, it was not planned. [00:18:00] Um, and yeah, Adam is, uh, you know, surely, um, someone that in the industry made a stamp, I would say, you know, he's the first one that started.

The, the restaurant design as we define it today. Uh, so he's surely, uh, he taught me a lot and, and has been, uh, an amazing mentor, um, you know, let's start that I met him like when I was, uh, 19 and, you know, first time I talked to him, he looked at me and is like, so what do you want? And obviously all of this in Italian, because my English was, today is still like not that great, but at that time it was really zero. So, you know, You know, but, you know, Adam Italian is like quite, he can fool you saying that he's me from Milano and you believe him. So, you know, he was just, um, talking to me and Italian say, so, you know, what do you want? And, you know, I was like, just first year of university. Do you think I really know what I wanted?

No, but I just said, I want to work for you one [00:19:00] day. And he like, you know, give me a business card. Then. The day after I sent the first email, then the first, uh, uh, he put me in contact with at that time was Carolyn Hayman, who was like the CEO director here, which, you know, has been here for quite some times.

And I remember she sent me an email saying, I know you met Adam and Please send me your portfolio. And I was like, portfolio? What is a portfolio? I mean, portfolio is not an Italian word, so I have no idea what it is. And I said, you know, luckily I would say, I said, I think I'm not ready yet. I probably need to, I don't have one that is, is ready to show to you.

And, you know, I kept writing Adam every like two, three months with some excuses that, you know, I knew it was coming to Milano. I saw the launch of his book and, you know, eventually it's like, so what do you want? I said, nothing eventually work for you one day. So I, after four years, I sent back my portfolio.

[00:20:00] And, um, you know, I remember Caroline denied that, but I remember very well. I show it to her and she's like, ah, I don't see anything great, but the graphic is good. So as you met Adam already, I believe you, we can hire you as an intern. I said, okay, that's, you know, good enough. I mean, and, and from there, like, you know, every step I was, I, you know, I started as an intern and I had to go back to university to finish.

That was 2008. So. For a year, I took a break and then I came back and, um, at one point I was stuck. I was actually working on in Rome. Then I came back to New York and, you know, I, for three months. And then I said, Adam, I want to stay here. And he's like, uh, well, no, I don't think so. And I was like, well, why not?

And it was like, No, I mean, you can stay in Rome, but you know, I didn't really listen to him. So I did all my visa application on the side and literally three days before my [00:21:00] day of going back to Italy, he's like, do you really want to be here? I said, yes. And I was like, okay, so do what you have to do. I mean, the deadline for the visa was like three days after.

So I just give him the paper, he sign it and came back. And you know, when you come to New York, you always think that he's like, I don't know, you stay. Three years at the maximum. And then it was six years and then you get up and down and you don't want to stay in New York anymore. And then you get your green cards and now you're stuck.

You can't, you know, go because you have your green card. So, and then you are 10 years and then you're like, so what is next? And you know, New York is home. And one day just, uh, you know, it was, uh, yeah, before COVID. So 2019, I just talked to Adam and I, You know, honestly said this is home, but, uh, I might want to do something for myself and, you know, just by myself.

I mean, I really don't want to go work for anyone else. That's not what [00:22:00] I want, but I don't know if I just want to, you know, keep, keep, keep doing what I'm doing. And it was not a reason that they didn't like it. It was more in my mind. Some freedom on, you know, the side that, uh, I think being far from home and what this was before COVID, if you want to work a week from home or wherever you want to be in the world, you can do it.

So I think in back of my mind was like, Oh, if I do my own things, I don't need to ask for a vacation days, you know, very, very, in a way, stupid the motivation probably, but you know, it was a need it was, uh, it was not, uh, Uh, it was not something else. And he basically, after I told him that, like not long time past.

And it was like, so I have an offer for you. Do you want to be my partner and take over the company in five years? And I was like, sure. But I just said Sure. Because I was like, why not? I mean, you know, I, I,

Dan: before COVID, right?

Alessia: it [00:23:00] was before Covid, I mean, so I became partner like February 4th, 2020. Good luck to my partnership,

So it was, uh, it went, uh, it went well, I would say, but different, uh, different than what was planned. So, you know, like, uh, that was the plan of being partner. And then it was COVID. So everyone knows that things were not that linear. after,

Dan: way I've ever heard anyone describe the COVID experience. It was not that linear. So

Alessia: no, it was not that linear. It's definitely not that linear. It still is not that linear, but, um, you know, so basically I think I became part of that, I thought more than that. I could not experience. I mean, I thought it was bright, quite, uh, quite a challenge. And, um, so I, the five years, uh, were coming and, uh, we just decided to continue with what what we had in mind, obviously, you know, [00:24:00] I, I did it in a, in a way with some lightness in the sense that, um, today I feel a bit more pressure than when I decided to do it.

But I also, you know, I put on the table a few considerations. And one is that I'm very confident on the quality of the work we do. And I'm not saying the design taste, I'm saying the quality of the work we do. So I was like, you know, that one, I know I can deliver.

Dan: okay, obviously the design is great, but it's really like your whole process, the quality, your deliverables, and like serving up a package, that quality you're talking about, like

Alessia: yeah, I, I,

Dan: easy.

Alessia: I, I think is, you know, after, after, um, David, I mean, the studio, the Tiana has been in business for more than 40 years. They're not that many firm that have this kind of experience. I've been with Adam for almost 20. So I [00:25:00] learned something from him. Um, and, uh, I think there are people here that, you know, are, are for me, um, more than their family.

And they are the people that, you know, really welcomed me when I was an intern in, and I, I learned under them and I'm still learning with them because I think, you know, right now, We kind of, you know, compliment each other in different ways than back then. But I know that, you know, like there was no risk on, on, on say, if I'll take over, there is something that I don't know what to do or that we don't know how to do it.

So that was one thing I said, okay, here, I know I'm pretty, I'm pretty confident we can deliver. Um, I have a good team, so that's why. And I know that that. So, uh, you know, by myself, I can lead, I can guide, I have a vision, but I need them [00:26:00] to, to deliver, to deliver. So that was like, you know, one thing I'm really attached to them.

I really, really close to them. And, uh, I, you know, in a way like, um, I don't say often, but maybe like the responsibility of, you know, if I don't take over what's going on, I kind of like, you know, being on that, uh, feeling a bit the responsibility of saying, well, you know, like they, they also maybe rely a little bit on me.

And, and kind of, uh, you know, that was like the other things that I was like, well, then I think, I mean, I have to, and you know, you don't do it for the others. You shouldn't do it for the others. You should do it for yourself. But, um, I think, and I hope it's like a two ways commitment here. And, uh, you know, we are doing good project.

At the beginning of the year, we got a sign on some project that I was very very close to, and I, you know, I just want to keep working on those. And so there were a series of factors that I said, yes, there's no, you know, [00:27:00] today, like the industry is like up and down. So I'm not knowing if I sleep every night, but you know, I also know that, um, that there were solid, solid base to do it.

Dan: want to, so when someone embarks on that entrepreneurial journey, there's like, you're, there's a decision tree that has to happen. Right. It's like, but the, the two biggest ones, I would say, it's kind of a binary choice. You're going to take that step. Are you going to buy something or are you going to build something? So when you originally went to Adam and said, I want to do something on my own. And then he said, well, let's talk. Cause obviously he sees that you're, you're a gem, you're, you're super intelligent, you're incredibly hardworking, um, and you've kind of come up. the organization. What considerations did you make if you were to like fill out your, your decision making process to continue this partnership and buyout route versus starting your own?

And I think I know you talked a little bit about [00:28:00] sitting behind you, um, and the team and the work, but what were some of the other inner workings as someone who was wrestling with this decision?

Alessia: Well, there has been a time where, you know, there is the excitement of something new, meaning starting something new. There was like, you know, I thought of it, I was like, Oh, I mean, Uh, I don't know that that is, is, can be interesting. I could do this and that. I could take it, uh, with a bit more like of a relaxed, uh, you know, uh, schedule and, uh, But then, um, in reality, someone has to also give you your first project.

Otherwise, you know, it'll become, remain a dream. And, uh, and I maybe, I'm not saying, you know, There is a comfort level on continuing what you're doing because you don't need to, um, start everything from zero in a way. So you are like, you know, but there is also, um, so you don't need to [00:29:00] start really everything from, from, from zero.

But at the same time, sometimes I feel like it's a startup because there are also a lot of things that I, Want to change or I want to make, you know, a bit different. And when things are already in place is much more difficult to change them than starting from scratch and clean. Uh, so it's been, I mean, I thought a lot.

I, I, I, I think that the reason, the motivation I mentioned, which was the, you know, the team, the client that we have and, uh, the fact that, I know that the, you know, the company has a solid foundation. We're surely the one that, uh, maybe, maybe made me decide to take, uh, the risk on the investments. Because if I was starting something by myself, I would have you know, I would have not have to pay as everyone that is an entrepreneur.

No, but over at salary insurance for 1k and all of that, which is. They are like quite, quite substantial. So [00:30:00] there is like, um, there is that, that you put on the plates and you're like, you know, you also kind of, I really like didn't want to leave what I'm doing. And, um, I think the downside, I mean, and not to discourage anyone, they want to start their own, uh, own things because I think I always treated this, this office, this studio as mine.

So I think that was also the fact why I took it over is because, you know, I always work here as if it was mine. I mean, from, you know, going after the fact that if we print the landscape or horizontal, we waste more paper and, you know, paper costs money and, you know, things like that, that really goes, I think is what Adam really appreciated.

Um, but, um, uh, there is also the other things that, you know, when you start your own, I mean, at the beginning, if you want to, if you want to do the project we are doing now, I need to make the client, you know, in a position that you feel comfortable that [00:31:00] I can deliver. And you know, you can deliver if you have a team, because today I think for certain projects, the schedule are quite demanding and, uh, I, I, that's, you know, I want to keep doing what I'm doing.

So,

Dan: I want to dig into the team a little bit too, because I know you, in speaking to you previously and also seeing you speak now, you like light up when you talk about them. Right. And I find it really interesting. I don't know if I've ever heard, maybe I've heard of a story like this, but I don't think I've actually ever someone who started as a, at a company as an intern. then wound up buying the company. So, and you did mention that there are, there are people on the team that have been there since you were an intern. So how has that, um, evolution happened? Or is it just like, it just kind of feels right. And it just, what it just is what it is. Like, how have those dynamics shifted, changed, or like, have you reflected on [00:32:00] that at all?

Alessia: I mean, you know, it's like, um, it's, it's sometimes it's easy, sometimes it's harder because, uh, uh, it's, uh, it's easy on the fact that I, with them, I have like, um, a personal relationship at this point, you know, they're like friends and family. so it's very easy to talk. about anything, wherever is an issue, wherever is something good.

Uh, at the same time, sometimes you feel like a bit awkward, you know, but you're like, I mean, I need to tell you what I want. I mean, you know, it's just kind of, uh, it's funny more than awkward, I would say. Um, but you know, as, when I started as an intern, these people, you know, Peter Giselle and, and, and a few others that obviously are around me.

they, they really, I don't know, they really mentor me in a way that is always what I highly, highly appreciate and always try to give back since I was, you know, not on this position, but even as a junior, when we had an inter, I always kind of look at, um, and [00:33:00] I think I try to do this in life to try to, you know, I, when I, when I see something that impressed me in the sense of like how people treat other people, obviously on, on a good way, Uh, I'm like, Oh, that's nice.

You know, I think I should try to do more of that, you know, and try to, you know, carve more time with my team and try to spend more time on, on explaining why certain things, because I remember what they did with me and eventually I think, uh, um, worked out. And again, these days they still have the, they know how of like, you know, taking certain decision.

I mean, my role is more of define the vision of a project rather than the technical detail that, you know, they can do it. They don't need me to tell them how to do certain things, which is the good part for me. But if we discuss what we want this to be, what, you know, what design sensibility, then, you know, is where I have to, I have to lead or decide.

And that's what I do in every project. [00:34:00] So it's, it's nice. I mean, I think we have a good, um, I think we have a good chemistry as well, which I think is important. So

Dan: I think, you know, going back to your previous conversations with you and also your definition of what hospitality means to you, um, I think Hilton did a really cool thing when they renamed Back of House, Heart of House, and that really echoes with what I hear you say, as far as, you know, you're working on these iconic projects and, okay, It's great.

As the guest, how do you really give consideration to focusing on that heart is the lifeblood of any Restaurant or hotel or resort to giving wonderful space and, and making space for the people that are working there so that they can, it helps them meet the guests where the guests are at and [00:35:00] just, how do you build, how do you build that into your overall process?

And I know it's so important to you, but, you know, we, we, we as end users never really get to see that.

Alessia: you know, one of the things that when I have to do. The speech of what we do at TIANI, I think, is what I start with. I don't start with what we do in terms of design. I start with what we do in terms of, uh, you know, space planning. Because, uh, I think, yes, it's key. And I think it's so, it's an aspect that is so important, because even more than design in a way for me, um, and is where we start in every project, right?

I mean, the first things you do is, uh, making sure that, uh, the back of house works, the front of house works, and so circulation and, um, you know, this, how you move people through the space. Um, and how people just get, [00:36:00] for example, in a restaurant to serve without seeing, just seeing the good part of the back action, if you know what I mean.

You know, you don't, you don't see the backstage, but the backstage is so well organized that you just get. To, to enjoy the perfection of the service. That's the way we think about it. And this, uh, you know, I think this comes for me, um, from the way that Adam, I think, taught me of how to plan restaurant design.

Uh, I always been amazed how he could see from like a plan that is blank, like a space planning that I am pretty sure very few could beat if now, no one. I mean, I really, and that is like what I do. Really, really in the years spent time on, on understanding and, and, you know, and, and, um, absorbing because once this is done well, basically the design is done.

I mean, once the space planning and everything works, you know, we don't [00:37:00] do the core. We do interior architecture. I always say it's like everything kind of like take shape and, and it's just already halfway. I

Dan: for a second. Um, okay. So let's just say, let's start with every organization from small to large. There's certain institutional knowledge that in smaller companies, could be a bottleneck with, let's say like an Adam or in any other company who has this superpower that not everyone else has.

So let's take space planning. How did you on your career journey and developing your relationship and mentor mentee relationship? with Adam, how did you get that institutional knowledge out of his head so that you could learn from it and that everyone else with you could learn from it? Because I think a lot of companies, I think that, you could be around someone all the time and be working with them, [00:38:00] but there is a way to learn from that and there's a process to get it out and it's, it's, troubles many organizations.

Alessia: think, you know, it was a bit funny, you know, when I sit down with Adam, I usually, especially in the last, uh, in the last period, I could easily finish a sentence or know where he wanted to go before he was going there. So, you know, it became easy at the end, uh, it wasn't at the beginning.

Dan: Is that because in the beginning you were still trying to figure out what a resume or what a portfolio was?

Alessia: Well, you know at the beginning I can't tell you many story, but you know when I was a first year in Rome I started to do my first DD set that I'm not gonna deviate too much, but I sit down and You know next to me was Marco Which is still with me at the company and he was doing DD set for for quite some times and me I had to do my First DD set then Andrea was like the studio director and just said okay Just mark up all the detail you need to do I look at him and I was like, how do you know which detail you [00:39:00] have to do?

I have no idea how to figure that out. You know? So once you see the forest, maybe then you understand, you know, the pieces. Uh, but with Adam, it was at the beginning, like, you know, I just see him doing the space planning and it's like, how, how, how do you even, you know, come up with these things from a white piece of paper?

And he has a special talent, so, you know, eventually you don't pick up everything, uh, because, you know, something is, uh, is just in you, but I think you can learn, uh, The way of thinking and and seeing or analyzing a space. I think that you can learn it. And once I don't know how many restaurants Adam designed and how many restaurants we have in our, you know, portfolio that we can look at.

But if you're curious, I'm very curious. Um, and you want to be, and you're eager to go spend time, you know, so you need to put your effort on it. It's not just, you look and you learn, [00:40:00] um, and you analyze things. You can see that there is a method behind it. It's not completely random. Yes. You know, he has a vision.

You can have a vision, but there is also, there is logic behind certain things because they have to function. So they're functional. They're not, uh, Um, so eventually, eventually you start to kind of, you know, guess that you have two, three options to make something work.

Dan: there is a logic to it. Well, okay, white paper for anything. Someone has a superpower to turn that white paper into something. There is, um, a logic. There's a process. You can kind of see it, but how would it was it? How did you get to understand the nuance? And I'm not saying you probably have a superpower like he does.

Um, but like, is it just a matter of being there and rolling up your sleeves all the time? Would you speak extemporaneously about, um, Yeah. Like how he's seeing that white paper or what the constraints are. Cause I, [00:41:00] I, I see that as space planning, but if you could, if you could take out how you got his institutional knowledge out, how could others take what you did?

You and Adam did together to build this partnership. Um, they apply that in aspects of their lives when they're struggling with their mentor of trying to get superpowers out of their head?

Alessia: And I think if you have someone in the company, like, you know, that you are close to and you work very closely, you create this relationship. I mean, Adam and I, we work very, very closely. I mean, I was, you know, for example, on this space planning, I remember very well when we had to redo Umber, uh, the Mandarin Hong Kong, right.

I mean, we had the meeting with the, with the chef, you know, with, It told us what he wanted to do in the new, in the new Amber, with the new renovation. And, and so what, uh, what his vision was for the food where we designed the first, first time Amber. So we had to [00:42:00] redesign, which is one of the most complicated things I think you can get asked because especially if it's a place that's iconic and works.

It's almost, You know, like you're like, no, uh, ask me something else. Not what I already done because it's hard, but you explain us. And I remember I was sitting here at the office with Adam. We sit down with the plan and you know, I, I described to him the way I felt. The chef wanted the restaurants. I said, if I have to describe this for me is something like, you know, a garden of like, um, is that a sculptural garden or Richard Serra or, or something where I imagine.

This kind of banquette partition, you know, floating in the space and create these private things because you want it to have kind of privacy in the middle of their space, which otherwise it, and, you know, I, I just kind of describe and these kind of, you know, sketch over, you said something like this, I said, yeah, you know, something like this and this kind of, um, with the plan, you try to, to, to [00:43:00] put what you have in your mind a little bit.

So is, is, you know, then you start to kind of. Just, you know, sketch ideas and then make sure that, you know, then it works. And you're like, okay, where's the kitchen? Where is the thing? Where the service come? Where the service station goes? How do you hide it? How do you make sure that doesn't face the things?

And then you get all these functional things that get your design shape in a certain way. Um, you know, that's, But it's also, I believe it's also, you need to have it a little bit. You need to, you know, uh, it's something that you at least need to like to, to like to do it, but it's an exercise. I think more you do, more you learn.

It's like, you know, I've been in, I've been the one doing, um, all the mood boards for, for our company for the last maybe 10 years, meaning that, you know, I do the first vision of the project through the mood boards. Cause I'm not amazing on sketching by hand. And my way of seeing a space is like imagining through [00:44:00] images that usually I manipulate.

So I don't take an image and put it there. But I used to do a lot, um, of like, you know, Photoshop work by manipulating these images and creating the one I, I have in my head. And, you know, I remember, I don't know, maybe 10 years ago when I was first in the, doing the first mood board, I was doing one mood board in a week.

I mean, the last, uh, in the last time when, you know, I was doing mood board with Adam, I could throw three in a day, meaning that, uh, I, I kind of also, you know, uh, I mean, I knew how to represent things you grow as a person. And I think you have a way of, uh, you know, expressing yourself that you get confidence and, and, uh, you just.

But it's also an exercise. If I tell you how many mood boards I have done, I think, uh, you know, usually people ask me, where can I find, uh, you know, something that they need for a mood that, and I know accidentally maybe [00:45:00] it was something similar. I could find it or things. I mean, when I started as an intern, Um, you know, one of, because I was good with the programming and with the software.

So I think they were using me also for that. Um, but I remember that, and this goes back, it's not just to tell the story, but it goes back the way I, I've been trained to work. And now I want to keep an even more going back to that, but you know, we're doing these mood boards and Adam was so particular on the fact that if we put something on the mood board, everything had to be chosen.

And in. You know, not just be there because it was filling a space. Meaning if you put a flower, you want to make sure that you pick the vase and you pick the flower. So I was doing flower arrangement in Photoshop by, you know, picking like all the flower that they wanted on that things for in the vase and the things.

And that was like, you know, doing all these, uh, work, which, you know, maybe today I wouldn't do it. But, um, [00:46:00] you know, it was just the, the, the things that we care about every single detail we were showing to a client.

Dan: But you know what, Alessia, I would say with you though, just in my limited work experience with you, you're setting the vision, like you said, on a project, but I also see you as a very detail oriented person, right? So now that you're focusing more on Vision and setting a project up and like the operations of making sure the business is going. Do you miss getting into the detail and picking out those, like those flowers?

Alessia: I'll still do it. The fact that I, I'll just direct someone what I want, you know? So I, I still do it. I think, you know, one thing that the people always ask me and I, I don't know, I don't know if I would answer, but I like both, I like, I like the creative aspect and I also person. Yes. I'm very detail oriented and organized.

I mean, I do love, uh, you know, math and science in a, in a way that is a conflict with someone that is creative usually. So. You know, [00:47:00] also now in the business, I do, you know, new business reading legal contract and, uh, and, and doing the creative aspect, but I, I still do. I mean, I still look at every single thing as Adam was doing.

And this is what, you know, what I, I want to continue doing, because I think it would make a difference. It's. I still look at every single detail, uh, after we finish a set of drawings or a set of specifications. So I make sure that, you know, the details are designed as I expect to be designed, um, and if they're not, I'll make a comment.

So I don't draft it myself, uh, but, uh, I, I'll still, uh, I'm still behind, uh, behind that. So I don't miss it because I'm doing it, you know, just through the hands of, uh, at times through the hands of someone else, but, uh, I'm still, I'm still there.

Dan: let's, let's do another thought experiment. So now you're the leader principal at Tahani. You have a great [00:48:00] team. You have an incredible foundation. Like we've said, how are you approaching marketplace of potential clients now? who have heard of Tahani, um, whatever reason, never had the opportunity to work together. Pretend that all those people are listening right now. How do you position yourself as Tahani today and looking forward to the future?

Alessia: Yeah, I mean, I think, um, Tiani today is, uh, I describe it as a solid company with, uh, you know, a very good, uh, experience. I mean, as I said, it's more than 40 years that he's in business. Um, and at the same time as, uh, is a company that, uh, while at times you get recognized for project that, uh, You know, it's not very important for our, our history or our portfolio.

I mean, and you know, like Le Cirque or Oriole in Vegas, it's not necessarily what we do as a [00:49:00] company. I think we, the sensibility evolve, evolve with, uh, I mean, also with the fact that I'm, I'm leading the company, um, and not, you know, was not good what we were doing before, but I think for some people, Adam did such iconic project.

in the past that people just got stuck to that two or three project, but you know, and they are very iconic, which are very colorful or very playful and not every project that we do is like that. So I think, you know, this is what, um, usually I try to explain. And if you like that, you can do that, but it's not necessarily what we do every day.

Um, it's something we are proud of having done. Yes. But, um, we also. Right now, in a month, we're really completing a residential project in Hawaii. And when people look at it, they're like, oh, is this Tiani? Because this is a language or a style that perhaps, you know, [00:50:00] was not that present in the portfolio before.

It's also the fact that it was a project that we haven't done a project of that type before. Uh, you know, so, uh, that also goes, uh, you know, now we are working on a mountain resort. It's the first mountain resort we're going to have in our portfolio. So it's surely going to show something new and is going to shape under my under my sensibility.

Um, so, you know, what I think is, what I think is Tiani is, is different than maybe other firm, uh, is the fact that we, Really every project that we do is really different in terms of design and it's really tailored to the client, the location, and the type of property. So you can really, you can really have two different top projects.

It doesn't mean that, you know, um, they might have like a sensibility in the background that It's hard to describe because it's kind of an instinct that comes out of, you know, what I like or what I don't [00:51:00] like, how can I describe it? It's just like, you know, I usually like everything that is expensive, but there's another, no, fake, you know, um, we do a lot of like tailored projects.

That's why they're all different. Every time we come up, we really make our life difficult. If we could do it, uh, you know, uh, as a, as a repetition, it would be much easier, but we don't like to do that.

Dan: again, I think As we were talking and just watching you light up about all the things that were making you light up, it's um, I was going through my head trying to think if I've ever met anyone who started a company as an intern and became the owner, and I just can't. So I just, aside from you already being unique in my brain, um, and it's just a wonderful human, I, just even more so.

So I just, and I'm so glad that we talked here because even in the prep, I didn't realize all [00:52:00] these things that you had done. Um, It's just super exciting and, and inspiring. So I, I'm hopeful that this conversation will inspire others and, and let people see you in a different light that I just, even having known you for so many years, I just didn't know.

And it's crazy. Um, and I'm sorry for not knowing that. I feel like, um, I feel like I could be better. So you're, you're inspiring me to be better, but I want to, if, if, the Alessia, the unique Alessia that I'm speaking to you right now were to go back in time to your 19 year old self where you met Adam, whereas it was in Milan where he gave you his card first,

Alessia: Yes.

Dan: advice do you have for your younger self?

Alessia: you know what? I don't have any regret. I would, I will redo everything I did. I, I really, I think I always, I have two, two philosophies that I follow. [00:53:00] One is like, you know, that if you want something, you should try to get it. And if you don't try, um, it's like, you know, if you don't try, you don't get it.

That's it. But if you try and you don't get it, you didn't lose anything because if you were not trying, you would have been on the same spot. So eventually you can only gain from that. Um, doing it in the right way though, you know, with, uh, with, with persistency, but in a, in a very, in a very kind of polite, uh, polite way.

And I think I did that at every step. I, I, I really don't have any, any regrets. I work a lot of hours. That's the, you know, sometimes I question it. Should I work a bit less, but, um, I always loved what I was doing. And, and so I think at the end, uh, The answer is like, you know, I, I always did what I felt it was good at that time.

Dan: And don't use landscape paper when you don't have to.

Alessia: no, no, [00:54:00] absolutely don't because you know how much it costs that glossy paper, you know, but, um, no, you know, like, and if I have to give a piece of advice would be to follow the instinct, follow your instinct, you know, like, as I said, when I make this choice of buying the company, um, I, I doubt and I didn't know.

I don't still don't know how it's going to go. You know, I, I, I just do everything with much of, uh, uh, love and from my art, but I think I just follow my instinct because I, you can't know. So if you do it because you feel it's the right things, you know, you always do the right things.

Dan: Bravo. I love it. Um, if people wanted to learn more about you or Tahani, um, what's the best way for them to do that?

Alessia: Oh, they can, you know, like, uh, see our website or send me an email, but,

Dan: Got it.

we'll get that up in the show notes. And again, I just, I just want to say thank you. I know we've been talking for [00:55:00] years. I remember just wanting you on this and, uh, thank you for coming and sharing your story because I really think that you are gonna, that your, experience, um, on your journey is, I know it's going to impact and inspire others. Um, and I know it has me already and my wheels are turning. So, um, I just wanted to give you a wholehearted thank you for just being your awesome self.

Alessia: no, thank you, Dan, for having me. And, you know, I, I really, I hope I can inspire someone of doing as I said, follow their dream and, uh, don't think too much what's going to happen. You know, uh, you'll figure it out.

Dan: Exactly. Well, and so thank you. And also just thank you to all the listeners. And I know, um, I just get such incredible feedback from all of you and I know I'm going to get really great feedback and sources of it and like just, oh, thanks for the conversation with Alessia. It was super inspiring. I didn't even know I could do [00:56:00] that because I didn't know you did it. But like everyone, um, we've grown by word of mouth, maybe some LinkedIn stuff, but you know, pass, pass this along if it inspired you or you think of someone who's like, yeah, at that decision point. Pass it along, um, follow us, like it, leave ratings, leave, leave comments. It all helps, um, get the word out to inspire others. Um, thank you. Thank you all.