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"Here as in Heaven."
For more information visit : garden.church
Welcome to GARDEN CHURCH Podcast. We are a community in Southern California dedicated to raising resilient disciples of Jesus Christ.
Bill Dogterom:It's good to be with you, this morning. Resurrection plus seven. And last week, we celebrated just remarkable with the kind of the tagline, right, that we even had a billboard, resurrection changes everything. Here we are a week later, and maybe you wanna change the exclamation mark to a question mark. What exactly has changed?
Bill Dogterom:We're still at war. I'm waiting a follow-up on a doctor's appointment. My pink slip has bubbled to the top of the pile. My anxiety is off the charts with conflict with a neighbor. What exactly does what was that about?
Bill Dogterom:Was that just like kind of a you go Jesus moment or or or why why you you would think you would think if somebody conquered death that we have been fighting for tens of thousands of years that like it would make the headlines somewhere. It would be noticed, that it would be registered, that there would be just this shaking in the systems. And, now we have kind of this important kind of dirty little secret about resurrection that you probably have already discovered. Resurrection doesn't change everything first. It changes you first.
Bill Dogterom:You have to engage in resurrection. You have to choose resurrection. Resurrection won't overwhelm you. It is very possible to visit the empty tomb to Instagram the moment and still not have it changed diddly squat. I haven't make any difference.
Bill Dogterom:You can come to church. You can be part of a gathering like this. You can you can sit, you can do all of the things, all of the things with it it making any real appreciable difference without it changing anything. And this is the this is the the challenge, right, and why why I I love I love Thomas. He's my my favorite disciple of the of the of the 12.
Bill Dogterom:Thomas is my guy. He's the Eeyore of the disciples. Right? He's the melancholic. He's probably the introvert.
Bill Dogterom:I'm maybe projecting. But nonetheless, I'm thinking that that and he's been there from the beginning as far as we know. He's in the earliest list. He should he's seen the water turn to wine. He's seen blind eyes see, he's seen lame, he's even he was he was he was in fact, the first time we kinda hear his voice is is where he and Jesus and the rest of the crew are on kind of a a strategic vacay on the other side of the Jordan River.
Bill Dogterom:They have received death threats and Jesus has thought it wise to maybe just kinda take the pot off boil for a little bit. So he's moved out of the public eye. He he he he knows how to play the game, if you will, and and right now he's just kinda turning the temperature down. So he's on the far side of the Jordan and they get a text that that Lazarus is is not well, he's dying. And this comes from Jesus' close friends.
Bill Dogterom:I mean, it's on the favorites of his and and and Jesus does nothing. He waits for Lazarus to be good and dead before he finally decides to to head back up the hill to Mary Mary and and Martha. And we voted. You remember, you were in the vote. It was 11 to one.
Bill Dogterom:We're not going. Because when the you remember why we left. Right? They're after us. They're they're after you.
Bill Dogterom:Why would you put yourself back into the crosshairs of those who wish wish you dead? Why would you do that? And and so we're the rest and Thomas is the guy that says, well here's the deal guys, I'd rather die with him than live without him. So I'm going y'all, come on. And he coalesces the rest of the crew.
Bill Dogterom:I mean, has some influence and coalesces the rest of the group. And by the way, Thomas was exactly right. This moment, the raising of Lazarus from the dead is was the final domino that pushed the pharisees into, we we gotta take this guy out. We this is this is gone far enough. Right?
Bill Dogterom:And and and so Thomas is there when when Lazarus comes forth from the grave. He's he's there. He's there. And our, Thomas is one of those guys that just shows up. He's just there.
Bill Dogterom:Consistent, faithful, there. And Jesus, I think, has a relationship with Thomas that he knows he can kinda trust him to ask the awkward questions. Yeah. Yeah. Have a friend in your group like that.
Bill Dogterom:The question is everybody else thinking but nobody else wants it. So it shows up. Remember, I mean, the Remember that just nightmare of a parade on the way in on Palm Sunday where Jesus apparently just didn't get the memo of what this was supposed to be about? And and and and he rides into town on a donkey and and and serves the people and and and then that kinda he's circling the drain, friends. He's just circling the drain.
Bill Dogterom:He goes lower and lower and lower until finally he bends his knees at your feet and washes them. He washes your feet. He serves you and and and remember what he said, if I if I don't serve you, if you don't let me love you this way, if you don't let me serve, you have no part with me. Thomas heard that and felt the weight of that. And then after dinner when Jesus just started to go off, I mean it's like, I don't think all the puppies are barking anymore.
Bill Dogterom:I think he's lost it. Because he's using bridegroom language speaking to a bride, don't let your heart be troubled, don't be afraid. I'm going to my father's house and I'll prepare and if I go to my father's house, will come again and receive you so that where I am, there you will be always. And and and the rest of us are just looking at each other, we we anticipated perhaps saying those words to our our betrothed, but we certainly didn't anticipate hearing them as if we're the bride that he is coming back to what is he doing? And then I I wasn't watching Jesus at this moment.
Bill Dogterom:I was kinda looking down, embarrassed, looking away how you you know, when you see somebody you love and care about who started to drift a little bit and you just wonder about their cognitive capacities. You you know, anybody else have that with Jesus? Sometimes you think, I I think he's really lost at this time. You know? But if I had been looking, think I would have seen the twinkle in his eye and the side glance to Thomas to see if Thomas was paying attention.
Bill Dogterom:Because Jesus says, you know where I'm going? And you know the way. And sure enough, Thomas rose to the baker, excuse me, we don't know where you're going and we certainly don't know the way. Thank God for Thomas. Because Jesus then took that baton that he had passed and said, oh, I'm the way.
Bill Dogterom:I'm not the way to the way. I'm not the one who give you directions so that you can find the way. I'm personally, I am the way. It's it's it's not just following my way of life, it's follow it's being with me and you will discover that I am also then the truth. It's not just that you know true things about me, it's just not that you know what is true because of me.
Bill Dogterom:I am the truth. Truth is a relation of concept like the way is about relationship and on the way you discover the truth who is Jesus and the life who is Jesus. Not the life that Jesus brings, the life that Jesus is. And in that knowing of him, in that relationship with him, you discover your own life. Thank you Thomas, we wouldn't have known that but for that awkward question.
Bill Dogterom:So I'm thinking that on the morning of the resurrection, Jesus was feeling particularly playful. Being raised from the dead might do that to you. You just realize it's one big joke. Right? So I'm thinking, I'm thinking, he stood outside the room and waited until Thomas left on the bagel run, you know.
Bill Dogterom:And then he shows up and says shalom y'all, peace be unto you. Right? And that's where we pick up our story. That's where we pick up our story because Thomas isn't there. So so here it is, verse 24, Thomas, one of the 12 wasn't with the disciple, wasn't with the disciples when Jesus came.
Bill Dogterom:The other disciples told him, we have seen the Lord. And Thomas replied, well I haven't. And unless I do, unless I seal the nail marks, unless I put my finger where the nails were, put my hand into his side, I will not believe. So a week later, his disciples were in the house again and Thomas was with them this time and even though the doors were locked Jesus came and stood among them and said peace be with you. And then he said to Thomas, put your finger here.
Bill Dogterom:See my hands? Reach out. Your hand, put it into my side. Stop doubting and be believing. And Thomas said, my Lord and my God.
Bill Dogterom:And Jesus told him, because you have seen me, you have believed, blessed are those who have not seen and have yet believed. And then John finishes up by saying, Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples which aren't recorded in this book. These are written. So that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the son of God and that by believing you may have life in his name. So I don't know.
Bill Dogterom:I I I I'm I'm thinking that that I I don't know. Anybody else have a playful Jesus? It just kinda teases you every once in a while, know? If not, you need to get a new one because you you you anybody who is attractive to children the way he was has to be playful. Kids sense when you're a stiff shirt.
Bill Dogterom:They they they figure it out. But if you're willing to roll around the dirt with him, they're all over you. Right? So so I'm thinking that he was that way and it probably ticked the more serious ones of them off including perhaps Thomas. But nonetheless, Thomas isn't there.
Bill Dogterom:I'm thinking that that was strategic on Jesus' part because he knew something about Thomas. Having walked with him now for these three years, he knows that Thomas is still gonna show up. He's still gonna be there. I think it is a massive mark in Thomas's favor that the week later, he's still in the game. He hasn't checked out, he hasn't tapped out, he hasn't gone back home, he has nowhere else to go.
Bill Dogterom:Remember, he's the guy that said, I'm gonna die with him rather than live without him. I don't know where we're going. Resurrection from Thomas's perspective has changed nothing. He's stuck. So when he comes back, Peter with his everything bagel, you know Peter, and and comes back into the room, right, the disciples are beside themselves.
Bill Dogterom:We've seen the Lord and Thomas has had it up to here with these guys. He's been with them three and Can you imagine living for three years with those guys? James and John constantly, I'm the greatest. No, you're the greatest. I'm the greatest.
Bill Dogterom:No, I'm the greatest. And Peter just look, I'm the rock. I'm the one, I got it right first. Come on, I mean, you know? And so, but Thomas on the other hand is just saying, I'm not gonna be bullied by your belief.
Bill Dogterom:I'm gonna be pushed around because you said you saw him unless I see him and and and here in by the way is the secret. Everybody's gotta see Jesus for themselves. Everybody's gotta enter into resurrection life for themselves. Everybody. I mean, the here we are.
Bill Dogterom:Everybody's breathing the air but everybody's gotta breathe for themselves. You can't breathe for somebody else. Resurrection changes nothing unless you breathe in the life above. Yeah? So Thomas is saying, I I I'm I I unless I see, unless I put my hand, my fingers, I'm I won't I won't I won't believe.
Bill Dogterom:And so here we are, this is an awkward moment. Here you have guys that are just beside themselves with excitement and anticipation. They're getting the confetti out, they have no idea what it is exactly, they're separate because Jesus has left the building again. He's he's no you you saw the Lord? I think it's mass hypnosis.
Bill Dogterom:I think I think somewhere along the line, you guys convinced yourselves, think I think the sleeplessness, I think maybe, I'm just saying. Right? So when Thomas there is in the next week and shows up and once again, I think, I think, no evidence to this but I think this time Jesus waited until Thomas was in the room again. And then he appears and says, peace be unto you. Same as before.
Bill Dogterom:But this time, he sees his friend across the room and he says, Thomas, let's do this. Right? Don't don't you think? Because I I did you catch that? The week before, Thomas had said because Jesus wasn't in the room, unless I put my finger through the holes, unless I put my hand in the side, I won't believe.
Bill Dogterom:Where was Jesus? Not in the room, but apparently he heard Thomas's challenge. He heard Thomas's prayer which is the point of resurrection life. Jesus will always be wherever you are. He is present with you even if you're not consciously present with him.
Bill Dogterom:He is listening in not like some kind of stalker but because he hears the longing, the desire, the anguish in the human heart that says, I want to believe, I want to see. And here, Thomas is given the opportunity to press in and believe. Did you catch by the way, the resurrected Christ has holes in his hands? Apparently resurrection doesn't always heal everything. Doesn't always seal because sometimes resurrection life heals you to the point that you no longer even remember being sick.
Bill Dogterom:Sometimes resurrection, however, heals you and leaves a scar And you feel it every once in a while, the weather changes. You know what I mean? But sometimes apparently resurrection leaves the wounds open so that the light of God's glory and revelation can shine through them to people who are likewise wounded and need to know that God will meet them in that wound. Our brokennesses are brought as a means now of revelation. Our brokenness now becomes a way by which God seeks to be glorified.
Bill Dogterom:And notice that Thomas got the memo. My Lord, he says, and my God. This is astonishing because remember, he is a good Jewish boy, he has been raised in the tradition of his elders in all likelihood. Every single morning of his life, he has prayed the Shema, hear o Israel, the Lord our God is one. One.
Bill Dogterom:And he has made the connection between this man who stands before him, holes in his hands, wound in his side, laughter playing on his face. My Lord is now also my God. Thomas is the first one in the gospels who makes that connection. Now you realize why Thomas was set aside for a moment. He's invited then and Jesus now plead good on you for believing when you see.
Bill Dogterom:Blessed are those who do not see but still believe. Anybody else want some of that action? Because that's you. Jesus was already having you in mind cause you weren't there on either of those two Sundays. You weren't there but by believing you step into the reality of the resurrection life that he brought.
Bill Dogterom:And you're invited into the wonder that flows from that moment. Oh, by the way, did you catch it? Thomas said, my lord, my god And invites us into that same declarative statement. That's what that's what we're doing here this morning in water baptism. We're saying, you are my Lord.
Bill Dogterom:You are my God. I don't understand it completely. I'm not gonna wait until I do. I just know that if all of this stuff is even vaguely close to true, I want my death to be attached to yours because I want the life that comes after the end of mine. Not when I die and and put in the ground, but in the multiple ways that I die every day.
Bill Dogterom:I want all of those diings to be gathered up and redeemed by your resurrection life. Because resurrection isn't a one and done, you go Jesus, it's an invitation to follow him through the cross to the grave and out the other side. You all did get your invitation BYOC? You're gonna need that cross how often? He says daily, daily.
Bill Dogterom:Why? Because daily, resurrection leaks. I don't know if you noticed that, resurrection life leaks. We we are so pummeled by death and the messages of death and the all of the the culture of death in our culture, we entertain ourselves to death in this current cultural space. So resurrection has to be engaged one yes at a time, one my lord and my god at a time, over and over and over again in the face of that wound that remains open, a pink slip that hasn't been resolved, a bill that is due and that I don't have the money for, an illness that I'm waiting a second consultation on.
Bill Dogterom:I may be healed, I may be healed but I may not be and I don't wanna waste the answer to prayer that is no. The way Jesus didn't waste the answer to his prayer that was no. So we engage in that and and then John, I love how he finishes this. I wish I wish, you know, I wish we were renewed for another season because we've got way more stuff to stream here. We've got raw footage that we can edit and and and it wouldn't fill all the All of the books in the world couldn't contain the things that we saw in the life of Jesus.
Bill Dogterom:But here's the deal, you got enough to believe and more wouldn't help. If you don't believe what you got, more is not gonna help you. If you don't stand in the reality of who he is based on what you've seen him do, what you've heard him say, who he has become to you in this now. What can I tell you? You already have enough to know that he's the Messiah of God.
Bill Dogterom:You already have enough to know that he is the son of God and you already have enough to know to believe into him and find the life that is in him. Let's pray. Oh Lord, as we prepare for this celebration of new life that is baptism. We recognize, oh lord, the implications of this, this symbolic dying and raising again is something that has happened in our hearts existentially. At some point, we have come to a conclusion about you enough to say you are my Lord and you are my God.
Bill Dogterom:And we thank you Lord for Thomas's way making capacity where he is the way to you who are the way. And I ask you by the power of your spirit now in this moment, in this time to look us all in the eyes and to remind us that resurrection isn't the answer. It's the question, who do you say that I am? It's not the end. It's not the goal.
Bill Dogterom:Resurrection is the beginning of new life and we choose, oh Lord, to step into it in Jesus name. Amen.
Intro/Outro:Thank you for listening. For more information, please visit us online at garden.church.