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Green Shoots & Big Shifts is hosted by Reetu Gupta, who started the show to have open, hopeful conversations about what it really takes to make sustainability part of how we live, lead, and work.
Each week, she talks with people doing innovative, meaningful work, turning ideas into action. From startup founders and corporate change-makers to community leaders - reimagining how business, society, and the planet can thrive together.
These are stories about innovation, collaboration, possibility, and the everyday shifts that move us toward a more abundant and resilient future.
you're listening to Green Shoots and Big Chefs
the show that spotlights the people and ideas
transforming our world for the better
I'm your host Reetu Gupta
in every episode
I'll be talking with innovators and trailblazers
who are reimagining our relationship with our planet
earth whether it's a small spark of innovation
or a sweeping shift in how we live and work
we'll explore the stories that give us hope
and the actions making a difference
together we are planting seeds of change
and driving big shifts for a healthier
hello this is Reetu Gupta
your podcast host for green shoots and big shifts
it's my great pleasure to invite our guest
Caroline missing today to the podcast
so welcome Caroline
just to start us off could you give an
our audience an overview of your work
and your journey to your current role
for context thank you
Ritu and it's really great to be here today
to have the chance to speak with you
so my current role
I'm the Chief
Growth and Sustainability Officer at Cultivo
and Cultivo is a US headquartered company
we were founded in 19
and we have a focus on land regeneration
and how we can unlock capital for nature
so we're
essentially building partnerships with land owners
land stewards investors
and corporations
who are looking to address their sustainability goals
yeah that's so interesting
your focus on land
and from what I understand on like biodiversity
water social impact
is quite unique how do you approach balancing
like these different outcomes from
from your projects
how does your work prior to Cultivo help you do that
sure I mean
I think probably a good place to start is that
the way Cultivo looks at land generation
is always from the perspective of
what's best for nature
and specifically
the ecosystem with which we're working in
we're also a data driven company
so we make use of remote sensing technology
but we always balance this with ground truth data
what's actually happening on the ground
so measuring soil health
and understanding current land management practices
so if we are doing regeneration well
it should lead to multiple positive outcomes
so that would be enhancing biodiversity
increasing water retention
sequestering carbon and most importantly as well
making sure that it's supporting the livelihoods
of those people who are working
the land so
so staying true to that what's best for nature
is one way to ensure that you're not over
indexing on one outcome
and it's not just about what you can do to maximize
carbon or it might also be
what is about maximizing short term returns
which might not also be the most sustainable approach
and in terms of how
my experience prior to Coltivo has informed that
I think well firstly
I grew up on a farm in Australia
so it feels like it's almost coming full circle now
sort of after 25 years of business experience now
working in a organisation that is really
directly working on land regeneration
and then that those intervening years
I spent quite a lot of time working in
the energy sector with shell
I Learned a lot of commercial skills
I Learned general management skills
I I had the opportunity to work in different countries
and to live in different communities
which has also informed the way I um
I'm able to now address issues that are presented in
in a in a startup environment
but I think you know
most importantly it's
it's the
listening to those individuals who know the most about
the land that they are working
and not assuming that you
you know more yeah
that's such a great point
such a great point about
as you previously also mentioned
having the ground truth
in addition to the data that the technology is
is gathering and then listening to the stakeholders
who are actually closer to the land for
for people who are new to land regeneration
can you walk us through what that means
what a project would look like
where are you doing some of your projects
sure we
as a company we work across terrestrial landscapes
and we have a little bit of a sweet spot
for grasslands and range lands
which actually represent over 50% of the
of the planet
and can sometimes be overlooked when there may be a
more of a focus on forest based landscapes
this year is also the UN Year of rangelands
so we feel like the time is now
actually to be celebrating this important ecosystem
when it comes to grasslands
there's a range of different things you can do to
support regeneration I mean
one of the most critical things is that
what we've seen in some areas
is that natural grasslands
are still being converted to cropland
which has a negative effect on biodiversity and um
and and all of the other ecological impacts that
that that can bring
so that's the first thing you can do
you can actually if you like
conserve the existing grasslands
but then what we're seeing around the world is
a growing amount of degraded land
that is potentially threatened
in terms of desertification
so how the land is being managed
um is very critical
so most grasslands around the world is
being managed for agricultural purposes
so it's about how you get that balance right
and continue to ensure that pastoralists and ranchers
or farmers around the world
can continue to grazing that land
but they can do it in a more sustainable way
so converting from conventional grazing practices
to more sustainable practices
like high intensity short duration grazing
can be one way that you can do that
it's it's also
one of the things that we're doing with our portfolio
projects in the US is introducing technology
which can support
the more sustainable forms of grazing
putting virtual collars on um
on cattle which means that
you no longer have to build physical fences right
you can have a a virtual fence
so this thing then also have a byproduct on
by diversity in that
you don't have the issue of wildlife and birds
being caught up in fences
hmm mm hmm
at it's most simple
it can be the transition of grazing practices to um
from you know
intensive
continuous grazing to a more sustainable approach
yeah that's
that's really interesting what you mentioned about
and do they do like
based on the projects that you've worked on
is it are they financially sustainable for the farmer
or the cattle I want to say group
yeah yeah
I mean that's one of the most fundamental um
um issues really
in how actually to make nature based interventions
financially viable
and one of the ways that that can be done is through uh
the the voluntary carbon market and monetizing
if you like the carbon that you're sequestering
so selling carbon credits
then the investor in the project is getting
a financial return right
equally
it might be that you have companies who have scope
3 emissions
and they're interested in um
improving the resilience of their supply chain
so they may actually be
willing to make that investment
into their supply chain through an insetting program
and
and actually pay farmers and ranchers for the change
in practice to move to more
um approaches
so there's different financial models
whether that is using the
a market mechanism or actually um
uh corporates investing
or it could also be in some instances
there's still philanthropic activities
which is what a lot of the environmental
Ngos are doing in supporting individuals
perhaps in terms of conserving land
putting easements in place or um
or
or working with community or tribal owned land as well
and finding new revenue streams there
so there's a number of different financial
instruments that are that are available
and I think that's been one of the things we've seen
really evolve over the last 5
10 years
is how nature based solutions can be an investible
if you like asset class yeah
just like an infrastructure investment
yeah that
that really seems interesting and powerful
because at the end of the day
you know you have to meet the financial sustainability
also for the farmers etcetera at on the ground level
so you talked a little bit about the projects in us
do you have projects outside of us as well
that you're working on we do
I mean as a company
our focus has been primarily on North America
and we include Mexico um
in in that and we have a number of projects in Mexico
including some with um
ahedo communities that are in forest uh
landscapes
as well as in northern Mexico grazing landscapes
and we also have projects in Uruguay and um
and then early stage uh
projects that we're working on in um
Namibia and India with NGO partners that
that's really cool
I know some of your projects outside of the US
as you mentioned are in early
early stages I'm curious about across your projects
are there certain learnings that you're finding
or you're finding differences based on geography
or even the type of of land
you said like there's grassland
there's other lands anything interesting bubbling up
even if it's early from your perspective
I mean definitely
I mean I think what we find is that each project is
is unique and and
and has different characteristics
I mean the
obviously
the underlying ecological characteristics of an area
are always going to be different
but that's one of the benefits of the technology
platform that we have developed
we actually are able to look at global datasets and um
that helps us to understand
looking at different eco regions
or a range of different biophysical characteristics
we can see um
similarities and differences
and obviously helps feed our technology as well in
in terms of finding ways to well
one of the key things is to actually
look at regeneration at
at speed and at scale
so what we can do in terms of our technology to try to
um reduce the
the time that organisations might need to spend
to assess a project
before they get to an investment stage
so it can also be providing insight to the land steward
or the land owner
so they're able to adapt their current land management
practices so using that data to provide extra insight
so I think while we would say each project is
is very different the
the communities and the stakeholders
and the underlying land
we do see though just in terms of project structuring
project management that
there are foundational components
and ways that we can streamline those processes
that will make that
make it more replicable and scalable
and that's what we also find is very attractive
then to institutional investors and corporations
who are looking to have a high degree of rigour and um
and robust data as well to support their um
investment decision making yeah yeah
um
something you said that you then I don't think you were
use the word customized particularly
but you
you talked about how processes at each geography are
I'll use the word customized
based on the geography and the special circumstances
and I can see how that is valuable to the investors too
because now you're mitigating some of the risks
which might be specific to each
each situation by adapting your processes
etcetera while
having a scalable technology that can be used across
different kinds of projects indeed
and I think what we find is that
you know the financial structuring
the scientific approaches can be universal
but the implementation and the application
of land management practices is often very cultural
culturally specific so I think it's um
it's always making sure that
that balance is right between the technology and
then the the human side of things
which um
will vary but I mean
equally what you find is that humans are humans
and actually some of these inside um
you know they are
there are insights for the
between countries that actually can be shared and
and you can learn from one project to another as well
yeah that's a
that's a great point humans are humans
slightly changing angle as you said
you worked at large companies
you grew up on a farm now you're working for a startup
through these various forms
um and structures
what strikes you as like
common themes that you have taken from like
one place to another that have
has made you successful
and what might be unique in each situation
that's a big question really
and it's something that I often get asked
about quite a bit now when um
we're recruiting new people into and
you know I share what my background is
and I reflect on the differences
particularly between a large multinational like shell
and a startup like Cultivo
although we've now been going for six years
so we're not that early stage
and we now have close to 50 people
but I think the there's a few things I reflect on that
that are really important
also if you're trying to change things and
do purpose driven work
one of the things is I think
having a legal structure that allows you to do
purpose driven work is important
and that's can be the difference between
in a company
if you're driven by just shareholder returns
mm hmm or um
if you have a structure like um
like CAS Cultivo we're a public benefit corporation
which means that we can balance both profit
with purpose and um
it that might not seem that important
but in terms of decision making
it gives you a lot of comfort
when you work for a company that
you know that you will never make a decision
that is entirely based on financial considerations
we will always be thinking about the purpose
and how it balances now ultimately
we still need to make a profit as a
as a company
so we still need to make financially driven decisions
but it means that they can be balanced
and you're not just making short term decisions
so I think that structure is quite important
and I think that's one of the challenges now
with many multinationals is
you know
having the right leadership and board and shareholders
mm hmm who those individuals are
can really drive that strategy and those decisions
mm hmm that are being made
the other thing that I think is the most fundamental
is about the people in an organisation
it doesn't matter how big it is
but having purpose driven people makes a big difference
and I think in a small corp
in a small organization that is mission driven you
you have a founder um
they decide really that
what that culture is going to be of the organization
which is more challenging as you scale
but that's one of the things right
that I've found and I've loved working for Cultivo
is that we have a team of very purpose driven people
now you still have that in a very large company
but you'll also have probably a broader spectrum
you will have some people that might be motivated
in different ways in terms of why they've joined
joined the company I think right
what I found when I was working at shell
is that I did find like minded people
who were purpose driven who did want to change things
so
you tended to surround yourself with people like that
but you had to spend a lot of time working on
influencing
convincing people that actually there's um
there's a reason to change something
whereas that's not something
that I need to spend a lot of time in
working in a mission driven organization like Cultivo
mm hmm um
mm hmm the influencing
could be more with external stakeholders
but it's not right internal
so I think that's quite a difference
and then the other reflection I have is
perhaps how risk is managed
and that the fact that in a smaller organization
you have the ability to move at much faster speed
and right
you naturally have to adapt a lot as a startup
but it just means that you can
rather than finesse something and get it to the 90
5% perfect you can take it to market
you can test it and then right and then iterate it
so
I think that the speed of putting things into practice
mm hmm is is something that is makes a big difference
yeah
I really like that you touched upon the legal structure
how's the boat structured
how um
you know basically the charter and the legal structure
structure for the company is so important
because that's that forms the foundation
and then it's the people and then the speed to um
you know the speed with which you can act also matters
yeah that that is really helpful because for me
I think for me from my perspective
when I think about sustainability
given the the corporate structures and the
the societal structures we live in
to me it's really important
at least in my thinking that it
it has to be a mix of that
something that's sustainable
from an environmental perspective
but also financial perspective
because that's how it's durable in the long term
definitely
and I think that's sometimes the challenge in that in
in large corporations I mean
corporate sustainability teams have been
a phenomenal intervention
and I think building expertise
so that
in terms of understanding the impacts that a company
is having bringing that professionalism
and depth of knowledge is
is really critical however
a sustainability team can sometimes just be seen as a
right and I think it's
it's important that to your point
that you look at it as an investment
as well as obviously the expense of a team
and I think getting that mindset is very important
I mean in smaller organisations
you don't necessarily need to have um
a sustainability team
and in a mission driven organization
you can actually have an impact driven business model
so essentially sustainability is part of everybody's
everybody's role
but as companies grow and become more sophisticated
and have much larger supply chains
having that professionalism
just as you have an HR
department or a finance department
I think is is still is very critical
um and it's still something that a lot of companies
have not yet invested in so
mm hmm I hope to
to see more sustainability teams in
in companies um
in future years yeah
and definitely I agree
see more sustainability teams and see them more not
not siloed and be more part of operational teams
like the profit centers or the cost centers
however the company is structured
you're absolutely right and
and I think that it's also a mindset of
of products that bring sustainable solutions
can actually be a source of competitive advantage
for companies yeah
and actually bringing that in to the
to the value proposition is
you know I have a strong belief that that is
that is a way that companies will innovate and survive
that if you're not bringing sustainability
attributes into products
they're going to become obsolete or stranded over time
yeah I agree with you because it's not only
you know there's the
the question of affordability
with supply chain strains and other risks and
you know limited material in the world
it's not unlimited things will get more expensive
if we keep doing and producing things at the same way
and not using some of the concepts around circular um
circularity etcetera
but also my background is in health healthcare
as I worked in healthcare for a long time
and I think about some of the materials
we are using today or how we are producing them
has huge impacts on health
and so if as a society
if you wanna want things affordable
durable and live healthy
it seems sustainability is a foundation for that
I just feel like such a dis
service has been done to sustainability
by putting it in a Silo and thinking of it as
like this cost center indeed
indeed and I mean
all of this would be much easier
if we were able to price in
you know what the
the cost of all these
the negative externalities is as well
exactly
we actually put a value on our ecological impacts the
you know the water and the
and the clean air and the
and the and the
and the clean soil but um
we're a little way away from that
but I still um
I'm I'm an eternal optimist
so I hope at some point
that our economic models might be able to factor in
more of that regenerative thinking
yeah yeah
I I yeah
I've talked to some people
they're thinking about it and they are
there is progress happening so that
you know I'm hopeful about it
so yeah
I was like talking about hope
I wanted to ask you
you said you are eternally optimistic
what keeps you
keeps your optimism going and the motivation going in
in the face of like
the big challenge we have and
and now
some of the systematic changes that need to be made
yeah and I wouldn't say that it's it
it's every single day I think there are
there are times in this current environment where you
you do question and sometimes feel a bit less hopeful
mm hmm
I think one of the key things that I've always found
drives my optimism is
is being inspired by other people who I have
mm hmm looked at and thought
the way that they just continue to persevere and
and maintain that focus um
and individuals that I I often
you know I listen to and
or read what they write
individuals like Christiana Figueres
who has been you know
involved in um the
the climate debate
and in solutions for most of her life
and um
you know and I love the fact that she also talks about
and that has a podcast that talks about um
you know stubborn optimism
which I think is you know
is a great way of positioning it
I mean I'm also inspired by young people are
are are active and and
and Greta I think she
mm hmm was a
a beacon of hope to you know to
to people all over the world
and I think it showed you that it's not about status
or age but actually
anybody can have a voice
and actually establish a huge following
mm hmm I
and I've also always found a way
I've also thought that it's important
that we continue to have activist organizations
and the role of environmental Ngos
some of them are more extreme than others
and some of them have a have a
have a position of really working with business
others more agitators
but I think they help companies keep their conscience
and actually push them
perhaps to do things differently
so I I think that the I
I also get optimism from these campaigning
organizations who are
day in day out still working on
on solutions for climate and
and nature yeah
thank you so much for sharing that
um I also listen to Christina's podcast
and get her LinkedIn write UPS
and I like that she always says
here are some positives
and here are some things that are not working
and I love that because without hope
people would just give up
um and what I'm also hearing from you is that
everyone has a role you
your role might be different from mine or a businesses
but everyone has a role because um
there are many angles we need to work on to
to make sure that we have a safe planet to live on
and the future generations
continue to enjoy the planet
as we have so
you know I wanted to again ask you if
if there's anything else you wanna add
before we wrap up
any pearls of wisdom or anything you would like to add
not sure about pearls of wisdom
I think a couple of things I would say is that
I would also encourage anybody who's listening
that has the time and the capacity
I think about taking on a voluntary role
whether that's working with an NGO or a charity
in addition to their paid employment
I think it's
it's a way that it can add to the strength of of
of Ngos and and charities
by bringing in different skills and experience
it can also be a fantastic opportunity for
career professionals to get experience
perhaps at an earlier age on a board
and it can be a way of giving back
and I think we need more of that in society and um
and a lot of organisations um
are desperately in need of a voluntary support
but I think sometimes it can be about thinking
how you can use your skills and experience
to help um
a charitable organization
so I think that's one of the things that I wanted to um
you know encourage any of your listeners to
to think about I've had a couple of fantastic um
organizations that I have been involved in
I'm currently a trustee of the Soil Association
which is a UK
I'm based charity that's been going for 80 years and is
is very much at the forefront of food
farming and nature
and how transformation in that area can lead to
a healthier lives
and it's been a fantastic experience for me
in terms of
building on what I already do in my day job
but finding those links and synergies and
and also feeling like I'm doing something positive
and I think that's red
partly the thing around maintaining optimism and hope
it's actually continuing to try and I think voluntary
um work can be a great way of helping you get
get a positive
mm hmm improve your
your your mental health
right as well yeah
yeah that's
that's such a great point
I'm glad you shared it yeah
that's part of the reason I'm doing this podcast
this is my this is my hope to the world
gift to the world so with
with that
I want to really thank you for being a guest today
um and before we wrap up for a
a word any
a word if you wanna share with the listeners
that they can carry for today
from today's conversation
well I think given the theme here is sustainability
I I think my word is probably relentless
because I think what it
what it asks of all of us is to have relentless focus
to not give up to have relentless optimism
to have relentless courage and to relentlessly adapt
so I think that would be my
my word that's
that's beautiful thank you so much
Caroline for being a guest
and thank you to the listeners for joining us today