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The HigherEdJobs Podcast is dedicated to helping higher education professionals find fulfillment in their careers and be the change agents that higher education needs in today's world. Join hosts Andrew Hibel and Kelly Cherwin, along with guest experts, as they examine job search strategies and break down the latest news and trends in higher education.
Andy Hibel 0:03
Welcome to the Hybrid Jobs Podcast Playlist edition. I'm Andy Habel, the chief operating officer and one of the co-founders of HigherEdJobs.
Kelly Cherwin 0:11
And I'm Kelly Cherwin, the director of editorial strategy. Today we're happy to have back Brendon Barnard and Rick Clarke. Brendan is the director of College Counseling and External affairs at Con School Network California. He's also the college admissions program advisor with the Making Caring Common, a project at the Harvard Graduate School of Education and director of College Counseling for the College Guidance Network. Rick is the Assistant Vice provost and executive director of Undergraduate admission at the Georgia Institute of Technology. Thanks, guys, for joining us today.
Rick Clark 0:40
Thanks for having us.
Brennan Barnard 0:41
For having us.
Andy Hibel 0:42
Thanks, guys, for hopping back on and doing one of our lighthearted episodes, but we feel is important to job search and careers. Working in any job that you're passionate about requires time refuel and recharge. And for lots of folks, including myself. Music has a big part to do with it. So we've put together a Spotify playlist where we've asked our guests who are so inclined to include songs that either can help folks with their job search or are generally good songs to channel day to day career choices. And we realize we're in early spring with enrollment management professionals. So this might be a particularly delicate time of year to their playlist. So we're very, very interested to hear you all might be thinking about adding
Rick Clark 1:31
Thanks for having us back. Yeah, I mean,
Maybe. Maybe we should just go for the sound of silence and.
Brennan Barnard 1:39
And the disturbed version So I'll go first and Rick, then you can take it from there. But for me, it's really it and this is Brennan. depends on which day you catch me on. I love the song, the 59th Street song by Simon and Garfunkel, otherwise known as Feeling Groovy. Just this idea of loving life and observing things and being in the moment and focusing on the positive on the other end of things. And especially as we sometimes look at the reality of our jobs and and maybe our political stage. It's the end of the world as we know it by R.E.M.. So it's kind of two opposite ends of the spectrum for me, but think they they are a nice complement to each other.
Kelly Cherwin 2:26
Brennan I love the song focusing on the positivity because I think yes as hired professionals, as parents, whatever. Sometimes we do get overwhelmed with stress and getting way ahead of ourself and not just enjoying today. So taking a pause and just like you said, observing and and taking in the positive. So that's that's great.
Rick Clark 2:44
Yeah. Well, again, thanks for having us back. And for me, number one would be. So my. daughter is 13, and her thing is musical theater. So we've we've actually been to several plays here in the last couple of weeks. We saw Little Mermaid. We saw Mean Girls and Gas. There's another one that we saw the other night. Anyway, we've been in multiple high schools lately, watching musical theater. So I'm going to go with Hamilton in the room where it happens. I think that it certainly as it relates to the work that we do in enrollment management and admission, there's a lot of mystery around it. know, some of those lines around, you know, nobody knows exactly how the game is played or how the sausage gets made. We just assume that it happens. And of course, there's a lot of speculation right now, especially about how that happens and if it's fair and what the ulterior motives are and all of this. But I would say for higher ed professionals in general, I think that, you know, as we as we look at that song, a little bit of it as it is our responsibility to explain how and why and, you know, especially to our colleagues. I mean, one of the problems, in my opinion about college campuses is that we too easily get siloed. And so we only can speculate about what other people are doing. And sometimes that's pretty inaccurate and I think the way that we not only internally build bridges and collaborate better is by explaining how and why and when. But then certainly, you know, one of our problems I think we'd all agree on right now, it's just this skepticism around the value of a college degree and, you higher ed in the crosshairs of the press and, you bipartisan sometimes angst around higher ed. There's no panacea for that. But I do believe one of the ways that we can diminish some of that anxiety is by, again, bringing people into the room a little bit, explaining how and why and when we do what we do. So I think that would be one of my songs
Brennan Barnard 4:49
Wow. I thought you were going to go with The Lion King, so you never cease to amaze me. Hmm.
Rick Clark 4:54
probably could do that one also that one comes to mind. And then I think U2 still haven't found what I'm looking for. And, again, this idea that, as professionals, there's always a I think what brought us into this role, whether you're a professor, you're an administration, you know, anything involved with higher ed in particular is a desire to know more, a desire to be better, a desire to kind of buck the status quo and that's a good thing. I think you can listen to that song in a couple of different ways, but I see a lot of hope in it. I see it as something where it's not frustrating that we haven't found that. But that's why you get up every morning and that's why there's, an opportunity right? And so I think that that's important because, again, as I just said, like this tough working in college environment right now, I mean, you just everywhere you look, whether it be talking to neighbors, social media articles, I mean, it just seems like everybody is sort of against, quote, us. That doesn't have to be the way it is. And and so I do think this idea of like being reminded of what we're doing, where we're going and that there's a lot of hope in that is is really important.
Brennan Barnard 6:10
And if anyone out there is looking to comp Rick and me tickets to the show this year, game
Kelly Cherwin 6:17
I have
Mike Walker 6:17
I.
Kelly Cherwin 6:18
I have bad news a I saw the last weekend of the show and yeah be so
Rick Clark 6:22
Oh,
Kelly Cherwin 6:22
you won't be able to see anymore so I guess that's not that bad news
Mike Walker 6:26
Bad news for us.
Kelly Cherwin 6:26
but yeah, my husband I were lucky enough to see that and it was amazing. So good.
Rick Clark 6:30
that's cool,
Kelly Cherwin 6:30
Good song choices.
Kelly Cherwin 6:31
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Andy Hibel 7:03
Amazing song choices, but also thematically guys have really hit on a lot of themes for both careers and in academia as well as job search, which is think more than anything else, as responsible professionals being transparent about whether it's a job posting and what you're looking for in the candidate or what you're looking for from a student who was going to be attending your university, being transparent in the process and what that is have to put out there. And then as either a student applying or a candidate applying for a job, taking the institution at its word that they're transparent and they're putting out their what they want, believe them and put your best foot forward and control what you can control. And channel some feeling groovy or channel. I still haven't found what I'm looking for, but have healthy dose of realism in both of those processes. There is no control you have on the outcome. You only have control in your input and the more you can channel that positive side of your input and take people at their word, these processes go better
Rick Clark 8:07
Well Said.
Andy Hibel 8:07
in the job search. And Kelly and I both are both have graduating high school seniors and in the midst of the process with both of them, the more you can stay focused on those things that you can make a difference and understand there's the right opportunity waiting for you. If you put your best self forward, that's all you can hope for.
Kelly Cherwin 8:26
I honestly thought you heard us say Kelly and I are both in a job search.
Kelly Cherwin 8:31
I was like. Wow
Andy Hibel 8:32
I actually it's kind of
Kelly Cherwin 8:34
Yes. Those
Mike Walker 8:35
guess none of us have found what we're looking for yet.
Rick Clark 8:37
he was going to tell you about
Kelly Cherwin 8:38
exactly.
Rick Clark 8:38
that after this interview,
Andy Hibel 8:39
yeah.
Rick Clark 8:39
telling,
Andy Hibel 8:40
I always feel that recording the podcast, like this podcast could be the precursor to both of us needing to do a job search. depending on how we do so.
Rick Clark 8:51
right?
Andy Hibel 8:52
So,
Kelly Cherwin 8:52
So
Rick Clark 8:52
Yeah. Yeah.
Brennan Barnard 8:53
and we we actually I mean, it's interesting. We we ground each chapter of our book in the song as well. So it's fitting that you do this each the beginning of each chapter. There's a verse from a song.
Andy Hibel 9:05
That's a really, that's a great, great idea. And, real quick, and we're going to put these on the playlist too. Which chapter do each of you think like you really nailed the song why?
Mike Walker 9:18
Where to go, where did Brennan go?
Rick Clark 9:20
I think I think
Kelly Cherwin 9:22
To get the book? Yes.
Rick Clark 9:24
I yeah,
Kelly Cherwin 9:25
It's like I'm not
Rick Clark 9:25
I would
Kelly Cherwin 9:26
answering
Rick Clark 9:26
say
Kelly Cherwin 9:26
that question.
Mike Walker 9:27
Cheater.
Rick Clark 9:29
I feel like we we had a couple pretty well but maybe it's just because I've got U2 in my head now. But chapter one was U2- 11:00 tick tock. And the line is we thought that we had all the answers. It was the questions we had wrong. And in that chapter, you know, we start with saying just the fundamental question that almost no one asks, especially kids from certain families in certain communities, which is why? Why am I even going to college and starting with that question is just so critical. But people sort of try to walk before they crawl and don't ask that question. And so I think I think we nailed down because like it's not like it's the title of the song. It's it's pretty nuanced. You know, it's you got to dig for it. But I think we think we hit that one pretty well.
Brennan Barnard 10:19
I would choose the one that's not as nuanced and is right in the title but is again, kind of one of the keys. And it's Who are you by the Who, Right? I really want to know. Tell me, who are you? And you know, as as students kind of venture into this experience, that's the question they should be asking. First and foremost, write this self-reflection. Who are you and what do you want and what are you excited about? And then it's like Rick said, the why and where, wh you hope for yourself. but I think so often we kind of skip over that, kind of like, okay, what do I value and what's important to me? And who are we as a family? Who am I as an individual? who do I want to be in a community? And then let's build from there.
Kelly Cherwin 11:04
That's
Andy Hibel 11:04
Yeah.
Kelly Cherwin 11:04
great. And skipping over that is definitely not recommended. So
Andy Hibel 11:07
Yeah.
Kelly Cherwin 11:08
thank you guys for some great song choices. And tying back in your book,
Rick Clark 11:12
Yeah, absolutely. One of the fun things to do in the book, I mean, I'm glad Brandon brought that up because it was fun to kind of figure out, okay, what do we want to tie in here? And if people, have questions at the end of every chapter, too, for discussion between families. And a couple of times we do reference the song and I do listen to that and, you know, have that conversation. We got little boxes in there. We've got a pretty wide range of artists.
Brennan Barnard 11:35
So, yeah, we got some Al Green in there, a little bit of everything.
Rick Clark 11:39
Which is the title of one of the songs we have in there. By Dawes.
Brennan Barnard 11:41
That's right.
Rick Clark 11:41
a little bit of everything.
Kelly Cherwin 11:43
No Journey, though. No Journey.
Brennan Barnard 11:44
No, no. But we do have we do have the Moody Blues.
Brennan Barnard 11:47
Yeah.
Andy Hibel 11:47
O Which Moody Blues song?
Brennan Barnard 11:49
Question
Andy Hibel 11:50
Yeah, of course.
Brennan Barnard 11:51
Why do we never get an answer when we're knocking at the door? Because the truth is hard to swallow. That's what the war of love is for. They go.
Rick Clark 12:00
I'll tell you, what we didn't have in there is Brown Eyed Girl. And part of that is because I remember going into a bar in Savannah and it said, like how much it would cost request for them to play each song. And Brown Eyed Girl was like, There's no amount of money you could pay us to play that song again. Well,
Andy Hibel 12:22
Well, thank you both for coming back. Thank you. I feel like we hit the jackpot today that this these were the folks that we needed to ask these questions. Dear. Thanks for really enhancing the playlist, And we look forward to reconnecting with you guys again real soon. And thank you for listening today. And if if you have any songs that you really want on the playlist, message us at X @higheredcareers or please feel free to email us at podcast@higheredjobs.com. Thanks for listening and we'll talk to you soon.