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The HeadRush Podcast with Paul Frase takes you inside the reality of Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy (CTE) through the lens of football. With firsthand experience in one of the most punishing sports, Paul shares stories, the lasting effects of head trauma, and the fight for awareness and support.
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This is the Headrush Podcast with Paul Freys and Corey Barry.
0:18
Welcome to the Head Rush podcast. I'm Corey Barry and I rodeoed professionally
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riding Bearback Bronx for nine years. And my co-host is Paul Freys, who was 11
0:29
years in the NFL. What's the NFL stand for?
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>> Well, we're be we're beating this like a dead horse. Is what? Not for long.
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>> Not for long.
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>> Yeah, not for long. Okay.
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>> As a defensive tackle
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>> and tackle, nose guy. I I actually started my very first game uh my rookie
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year as a nose tackle at 267 pounds. And don't laugh, please.
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At the Headrush talk, At the Headrush podcast, we talk about everything
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related to brain trauma, brain health, and wellness. We focus on traumatic
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brain injury sustained through repeated head impacts and repeated blast exposure
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for our men and women who serve in the armed forces. We talk about traumatic
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encphylopathy syndrome and chronic traumatic encphylopathy.
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We cover how traumatic brain injuries can and will cause mental health issues
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such as depression, addiction, lack of executive function, memory loss, even
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suicide, ideiation, as well as degenerative neurological issues. Our
1:42
mantra is how to cope and find hope. We focus our energy on finding therapies
1:49
and sharing hope through education and awareness. And today, ladies and
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gentlemen, boy are we going to be sharing hope. I am surrounded by
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football. This is nothing but football and everything having to do with
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football. And I tell you what, I think everyone we have on except for the one
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lady here are all defensive linemen.
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>> Uh, no. Ricky Ricky, you played uh
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>> Yeah. So, no. So,
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>> and and and Irv is an offensive lineman. Don't don't pin defensive lineman. Oh,
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actually, you did start in college. Okay. We're going to talk we're gonna
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we're gonna get
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>> you know, I was a hybrid. So,
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>> so in other words, what I'm saying is I'm surrounded by
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>> as a stud looks like.
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>> So, what I'm saying is before we introduce him is I'm surrounded by 6
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foot 285b men that love to beat the hell out of
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each other.
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>> We used to be no earth.
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>> Not anymore. Thank you.
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>> No, not not anymore.
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>> So, Paul, why don't you introduce us to our three guests and the lovely lady or
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our two guests and the lovely lady? We're going to go with uh in Texas, do
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as Texans do, ladies first, right? And and I I it's an honor for me because uh
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this episode I actually have worked with all three of our guests.
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>> And um let's start with Roxan. Roxanne McCrae. She is a member of the NFL
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Player Advocacy Committee, PAC, where she works alongside fellow retired
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players and advocates to improve the lives of former NFL players through
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education, outreach, and policy advocacy. She also developed and
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organized the NFL Wives for a Change, a grassroots uh organization comprised of
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the wives of veteran NFL players dedicated to protecting and expanding
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benefits for for retired players suffering from cognitive impairment,
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TBI, Parkinson's, and other lifealtering neurological issues. Roxy, Roxy, is that
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okay if I call you Roxy?
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>> It's not.
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>> Oh, absolutely. Okay. Absolutely. So, Ro uh Roxy also serves as vice
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president of outreach for the College Football Players Benefits Association
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where where she focuses on connecting former players with resources, raising
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awareness of play player benefit issues and strengthening outreach efforts on
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behalf of retired football players. Prior to her advocacy work, she built a
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successful career in technology technology sta sales with more than 10
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years of experience providing business solutions to Fortune 500 companies
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including Disney, ABC, ESPN, computer sciences, IBM, AAT, AT&T,
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just to name a few. She's a graduate of San Jose State University where she
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earned degrees in clinical psychology. And through her advocacy, she remains
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committed to ensuring that retired football players and their families
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receive the care, respect, and benefits they have earned. Welcome, Roxan.
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>> So, so good to see you.
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>> Thank you.
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>> Is there anything that you haven't done?
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>> Thank you. Thank you, Paul. a whole bunch.
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>> Well, she the her most important uh uh jobs are going on right now. And she's
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>> being a mother.
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>> Well, being Yeah, she's she's uh she's being a mother of a ranked uh baseball
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young man who is a 4.0. I I never sniffed a 4.0 O in in high
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school or college, but uh and he's rated I think
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>> I think he's rated in in in the 70s uh nationwide in in baseball right now. And
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he's he's
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>> I got a friend of ours that his kid is ranked right now, Quincy Ballard. He was
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just in I think it was Florida or Georgia or something like that at one of
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Georgia.
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>> Yeah. He was just in Georgia playing there and he was one of the top
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ranked kids in the top 15 there in the
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rankings. So, our
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>> Quincy Ballard is his name. He was a pitcher and hitter.
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Yeah. So, next our our next guest is Ricky Ray. Um, rooted in the rolling
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hills of Wsboro, Virginia in the heart of the Shannondoa Valley. Ricky Ray
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carries the quiet strength and humility of his upbringing into everything he
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does. His journey from small town beginnings to national recognition has
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been guided by perseverance, purpose, and a deep commitment to service. He is
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a gradu graduate of Norfolk State University. a former uh Washington DC
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chapter president of the National Football League Players Association,
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NFLPA, Ricky leveraged his experience with within the athletic fraternity to
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create transformational change be beyond the grid grid iron. His dedication to
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holistic community growth, connecting education, mental health, physical
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wellness, and economic empowerment has impacted countless lives. Ricky works
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with both Roxanne and our next guest at the NFL player of advocacy advocacy
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committee and is the current chair of the pack. Welcome Ricky.
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>> Welcome Ricky. Nice to meet you. Boy, I tell you what, so far out of these two,
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I'm feeling very uneducated.
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>> Well, you you keep it simple. And you you and I are just football players and
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and a
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>> I'm not a football player.
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>> Well, a rodeo cowboy. That's that's
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>> I I played football in high school. I was
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>> I was one of the ones that they just allowed to play. You know, it's funny.
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We had Tony White who played for the Bishop Broncos and uh he ended up
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getting drafted but then got uh I think it was the first preeason game or
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something. Um broke his back and never
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>> Oh gosh.
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>> Now he's a police officer in Ridgerest.
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>> Well, he he might be fortunate that he avoided uh more repeated head impacts.
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our
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>> and our third guest, Paul.
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>> Yeah. A teammate I have not seen since 1992, I don't believe.
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>> I think he looks younger than you, too.
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>> I know they they all do. He Yeah. And Roxan is many years younger. But anyway,
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and he played offensive tackle for the New York Jets. And I had to go against
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him in practice many times, much to my chagrin. So Irv Eatman aka a the Condor
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and I think you just shared with me you actually got that nickname but when you
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got to the Jets you had already been in the NFL and the USFL for a combination
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of eight or nine years
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>> right
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>> so and we nicknamed him the Condor and everybody was his smile infected all of
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us so Irv Eatman was born in Birmingham Alabama he moved to Dayton, uh, where he
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play Dayton, Ohio, where he played, um, uh, high school football. He attended
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UCLA and was a three-year starter on both offensive and defensive line. You
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didn't do both in the same game, right?
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>> Uh, few games I did, uh, but for the most part it was different years, but
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yeah, a couple couple years I did. Matter of fact, my senior year I went
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played half a year at defensive line and I switched offensive line and switched
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back to full-time offensive line the last five games of the year or so.
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>> Oh gosh.
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>> Well, uh, you are by the time that I got there, there was a two platoon system.
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Irv, I'm not sure. I'm just just busting your chops. I'm sorry.
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>> All right. So he uh uh Irv received a degree in criminal justice and after
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college he played in the USFL for three years and he joined the Chiefs in 1986
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for five seasons. Did you win? No, you didn't win any playoff games, but you
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probably went to the playoffs or did you win?
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>> Right. We went to the playoffs but did not win. No, we did not win any.
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>> Speaking of that, now let's bring that up since you want to rub Irv's nose into
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this. Let's see. Paul, you went to the Super
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Bowl, didn't you?
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>> I went to the playoffs two out of my 11 years.
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>> And what happened when you went to the Super Bowl?
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>> We lost.
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>> Okay. So, Irv, there you go. If he wants to rub your nose into it, I'm going to
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bring it up to
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>> win it. It is a hard uh place to win. So, he played for the Jets where I met
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him, the Rams, Falcons, Oilers, and before retiring. And in 1997, he had a
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10-year career uh as a coach in the NFL, starting with the Packers and coaching
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the Steelers, Chiefs, and Raiders. And now, I think one of the most
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important things is his uh service. He is most proud of his service as a
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volunteer courtappointed child advocate for the organization CASSA, Child
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Advocate San Antonio. So, thank you guys for the service that you all do. Uh,
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welcome V. It's good to see all of you.
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>> Thank you, Paul. Good to see you, man.
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>> Thank you for what you do down there in San Antonio. I mean, as a fellow Texan,
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thank you.
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>> If you or someone you love is living with Parkinson's, MS or symptoms
11:52
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treatment. Interested? You can learn more about ibeane and apply at
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ambio.life. Thank you all for joining us. I know
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Paul was actually on the board of the pack when it first started. Ricky, as
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the current chairperson of the pack, can you tell us who is
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who is the pack? And since you guys have been there since the inception, will you
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and Roxan share in telling us the mission and purpose of the players
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advocacy committee? And before we go on, I want
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to, you know, I have said this several times
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and this is going to be part of this conversation and I want to bring it up
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for a reason and I'm sorry if I offend anybody, but we are talking about the
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people in era, Ricky's era, Paul's era when we are talking about this pack and
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helping those that need it. You know, I'm a big advocate of those. But me
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personally, not Paul, not you guys, but me
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personally, if you're playing professional football now, and you're
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not doing red light therapy, you're not doing hyperbaric, you're not doing
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everything, dude, it's on you, the education's out there, the knowledge is
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on you, everything's out there to where this pack is not, in my belief, and I
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correct me if I'm wrong, it's not for you. These are for the people that
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were bangers back in the day when they didn't know.
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>> Yeah. It's for So, so one one of the things that we do talk about is the the
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minimum wages are so um impressive nowadays if if guys that should be very
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aware and and maybe you guys can share shed some light on this. Are the guys
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being taught about repeated head impacts and before they sign on the dotted line,
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sign their right rights away? And um our our thoughts are why not have a
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hyperbaric chamber? Why not have a a photobiom photobiomodulation unit? Why
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not have a TMS and do do it maintenance on your brain for years, you know, in
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season and years to come? Well, instead of having one hot rod or one bling or
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one indoor basketball court, you can have all of that at your house. So where
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when you get done banging for the weekend, you can come home and watch
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your plays on your iPad and study for the next plays in your hyperaric chamber
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with your red light therapy. I mean, it taking your fish oil. But now back to
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what you were saying. Well, so one um
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so uh we we were talking about uh sharing and telling us about the mission
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and the purpose of the players advocacy committee and and Ricky as the chair
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current chairperson. Can you start that conversation and then uh Roxan you've
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been there since the inception almost four years I guess right and then you
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know follow up. Yeah, for sure.
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>> But that's what Am I right on this? So that you guys are talking about the pack
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when it started, right? And how it's going.
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>> Well, it's Yeah, it's it's serving the the older community and the newer guys
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have been start signing their lives away, their brains away since what 2014
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or 2015.
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>> Would that be
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>> That's correct.
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>> Would that be correct to say? Okay.
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>> Yeah, that's that's correct, Paul. around 2014 is uh is when this
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settlement came about and it does reflect the older era of players that
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played in the league. Um you know we we we we got this started uh a few years
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ago and one of the reasons why we did this is made up of former players uh
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wives of former players and we have a consultant uh Chris Whiskey who was in
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the uh CTE uh realm. Uh and the reason why we got started really is to assist
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the former players and families uh seeking uh uh fairness uh transparency,
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accountability uh and our role uh within this is ensured that every player uh
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regardless of error, background, medical complexity uh that they have the access
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to clear information uh you know and and and be able to uh uh navigate through a
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process that really is has been often been difficult diffult, confusing and is
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inconsistent. Uh so that's really the reason why the pack got started because
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uh uh the the the whole process of of the settlement like any other uh
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settlement of this nature is very difficult and it's so many guys. There's
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20,000 guys in the settlement. uh and it's and it's tons of attorneys that's
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involved into this and it's not really as uh cohesive of information direction
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for for individuals to go through this particular process. So that is the
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mission and the goal of the pack and um that's what that's what we are and
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that's what we're doing u moving forward.
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So just for our viewers know that's why I was asking the question. This is for
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the older NFL. This ain't for the new guys. This is pre204.
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>> The line of delineation or demarcation looks
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>> the settlement that you were part of.
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>> Right. Exactly. And so, so Cory, what happens in the 2014 guys is that, you
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know, uh, through their, you know, according to the NFL, they currently
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have protocols in place now that is supposedly to take care of concussions
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and any other type of head injuries moving forward. Uh, the whole settlement
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in themselves, it's a wrap-up to not get too legal involved in it. It's just the
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mere fact that the NFL uh, they did not take have those protocols in place
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during our era. and not admitting it, but they settled with the settlement to
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say that, okay, that was an issue. Now, we're going to move forward. And the
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current guys, believe it or not, you know, even with the bubble helmets, uh,
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with the facade of their concussion settlement, uh, I mean, their concussion
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protocol, I should say, they're also going to run into problems down the road
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when they reach our age group as well. So, it remains to be seen. And I'm I'm
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I'm crossing fingers that we can really, you know, help them to navigate things
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that we're doing now so that really don't reach them. But I really think
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that they're going to have the same problems going forward.
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>> Well, that was blatantly apparent with the 24 year old kid that uh uh ended his
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life for the Dallas Cowboys and he was uh they detect Yeah. Yeah. They did they
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diagnosed CTE.
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>> Um Ro Yeah. Roxan, you've been involved since day one and probably before and uh
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tell us a little bit about your journey and uh how you see things developing at
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the pack.
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>> Sure. Sure. And I my apologies for my unstable internet here. um as a former
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wife of a a NFL player who suffers from um you know TBI from RHI, I um got
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involved with the wives because a lot of we've noticed we noticed back in 2018 or
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so that a lot of these guys were were unable to advocate for themselves. So we
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formed what we call NFL Wives um for change. Um, and I was instrumental in
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helping to form that group. And a lot of wives got together and we started
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advocating for these men who were unable to advocate for themselves. We found
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that a lot of the men um had, you know, been divorced. They no longer had wives.
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Some of their family members had given up on them because of the struggles that
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come along with with with TBI. You know, some of these guys or families just
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didn't even want to be around them or deal with them and they had no one to
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advocate for themselves. So, we started becoming their voice and that's how I
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got involved. Um, and experiencing it firsthand, you know, seeing, you know,
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my ex-husband when, you know, he was at Stanford University, seeing that person
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and seeing the person he evolved into, you know, throughout the end of his
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career and when his career was over, were like two totally different people.
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So, I experienced firsthand what, you know, repeated head injury does to a
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player. Um and so that just you know I became very passionate about fighting
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for these men and we were you know very successful in this fight. We were able
20:54
to um you know make some changes within the concussion settlement, make some
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changes within the disability plan and basically advocate for these guys to be
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able to get approvals on these settlements that they really really
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needed because some of them I mean we had some guys that were homeless. um
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they weren't able to get to doctors. Um some of them couldn't drive. I mean we
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just had some guys that were really bad off and you know unfortunately it was
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you know the older guys you know that were really suffering from this. So um
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you know a lot of them couldn't even understand
21:30
this whole settlement process and a lot of them were giving up because they were
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getting denied and um so you know we just gathered a
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bunch of wives and we started fighting for them and making noise and NFL heard
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our noise and it you know it created change. So that's how I got involved.
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So, so when I joined uh the pack at the at the inception and and I stayed for,
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you know, 12, 14, 18 months or so, um I I knew we were waiting waiting through a
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bit of a quagmire of court proceedings and application and administrative
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nightmares. And uh do you think that was on purpose that it was so hard to uh you
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know uh apply for benefits? So, but can you tell us uh the current challenges
22:22
facing retired players as a group and and and Roxan, can you share that? And
22:28
the next question is going to be for Irv or your or Ricky, you can answer it as
22:33
well.
22:34
>> Uh well, to me, and we've talked about this many times um as part of the
22:39
committee. Uh Paul, you asked if it's by design. It's just funny. We had this
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discussion just in a meeting um just the other day. The system is working as it's
22:51
designed. It's not uh broken. It's functioning exactly the way is it was
22:57
designed which is to frustrate to extend the amount of time is involved to create
23:03
a situation where people miss deadlines and and uh things like that so that
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ultimately they can say hey well you know we had in place but you know you
23:12
didn't show up or you didn't do this or you didn't do that. We've talked many
23:14
times about how, you know, a a guy can just say be in Austin but gets an
23:21
appointment in New Orleans, you know, and for some of these people who are by
23:25
themselves, who don't have familial support or spousal support, it's very
23:30
difficult to get to those things. You're getting there at your own expense and um
23:35
it's very difficult to make these appointments. And some of these guys,
23:38
unlike like all of us here, are not even techsavvy. So, some of these guys don't
23:42
even check their emails or even know how to check their emails. I've talked to
23:47
several guys who don't even that they've had so many attorneys, they don't even
23:52
know who their actual attorney of record is, you know, because a lot of times
23:56
these attorneys join cases and then they abandon them when they realize it's not
24:00
going to be a quick payday because of all the hoops you have to jump through
24:02
with the through with the NFL. And that's what the NFL has done
24:06
historically. Paul, you remember way back they understand the value of having
24:10
information and that's why they keep it close to the vest. I think you can
24:14
remember Rick, you Ricky and and Paul, you remember way back uh in the 90s when
24:20
we were trying to give salary information
24:22
>> how hard you know how held how hard they held that close to the best because they
24:25
knew it was a value and they do a great job of holding uh imported you know
24:30
particularly around things like health and uh the CT uh CTE and other issues
24:36
and that's why even to this day they still haven't really acknowledged and
24:39
admitted openly they've made settlements of course so I just think that Um, you
24:44
know, basically as as a as a you know, as a committee, our biggest thing and
24:49
our biggest hurdle is just trying, like Roxy said, is trying to get information
24:53
to people, not just not just older players, though, because as you see,
24:57
younger and younger players are being afflicted by, you look at Chris Johnson
25:01
with Parkinson's that just came out recently. like this young kid in Utah
25:05
that was what I think 38 committed suicide and he probably has you know I'm
25:09
certainly she has some kind of brain trauma and and and you seeing more and
25:13
more young guys so it's going to be much harder to delineate between age groups
25:18
because everybody eventually that played pro football will be a retired player
25:23
regardless and their issues will come up at different points but in inevitably
25:28
most of them will have some kind of issues that they will have to be dealt
25:31
with under these under these guidelines
25:33
>> if you've been told is all in your head, but deep down you know something is
25:36
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25:43
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and discover if inflammation, not weakness, is holding you back. You're
26:21
not broken, you're unbalanced, and balance can be restored. First of
26:27
all, Roxy, thank you for doing your part being part of the NFL wives. You know,
26:33
one of our my wife has been part of my journey for
26:38
28 years. So, she she didn't sign up for this and yet she's has seen the changes
26:44
and had to deal with it. And I'm sorry that you got to do that. A friend of
26:48
ours, uh, Brandy Winsens, who I'm sure you know, is also on our board and she's
26:55
a good friend. And I tell you what, when it comes to the wives and what you guys
26:59
have to go through, man, my hats off to you all day long and
27:05
it's crazy. But since you are the newest member
27:10
amongst everyone here, um, have you learned and can you explain
27:17
why the players might need an advocacy team helping them through the details of
27:22
the concussion settlement? Because I know in rodeo we don't have no
27:26
settlements. There's not when we retire the great thing and bad thing about
27:32
rodeo is when we retire we didn't we don't have medical teams. We don't have
27:39
team doctors. We don't have none of that. We were all self-employed. We
27:44
signed on a dotted line that we could die. They gave us a little bit of
27:48
medical taste while we had our cards. But once you're done, you're done. Have
27:52
a good time. Um, and it's a whole different story
27:57
with the NFL. You guys have everything there. So, where the advocacy and trying
28:04
to walk through the details of this concussion settlement? And I've had long
28:08
talks with Paul on this settlement to try to figure figure it out a little
28:12
bit. Where's the advocacy team to help them?
28:18
Well, I think the biggest thing that that I've heard talking to uh you know,
28:23
various guys frankly of different ages is that you know uh they don't know who
28:28
to go to, who to trust. Like I said, a lot of these attorneys sometimes are
28:32
just looking for a quick money grab. So they in the middle of a case sometime
28:35
they abandon these guys because they realize, hey, this going to take a lot
28:39
of resources to get to the end of this particular case. And so I think what I
28:44
hear most is hey where do I get not only information but good information you
28:49
know in terms of like how do I file which is you know easy you can do it
28:52
online now but again you're talking about some guys in certain age groups
28:57
who don't even understand how to do that barely know how to turn a computer on uh
29:01
you know guys want to know uh you know the specifics of it do they do they fall
29:06
in a particular category and you know how you know and does it apply to them
29:10
and also uh you on things like uh as they get going uh you know just the
29:16
logistics of getting things like appointments and things like that. And
29:20
if you don't if you don't have a good diligent representative, sometimes you
29:24
know with family help, sometimes your legal representative that can do things
29:28
proactively, you can it can fall through the crack cracks. If you make if you
29:32
miss a deadline, you know, you got to go back to the beginning, start all over
29:36
again. And some of these guys, which again to me, Paul, you asked earlier, I
29:40
think it's built in just to frustrate guys to the point where they say, you
29:43
know what, screw up.
29:45
>> You know, I don't think it's about money so much. I think it's just a matter of,
29:49
you know, making the point that like, you know, you get nothing unless we say
29:53
you get something. And a lot of these guys just give up. And that's what we
29:56
want to avoid happening. So, there's been a lot of research
30:02
lately uh released from uh Boston University about the uh um the um the
30:09
Parkinson's, the prevalence of Parkinson's and ALS and almost
30:13
Alzheimer's. And we know that in some capacity, in some percentage, it's
30:17
higher amongst retired NFL players. Um, can you shed some light uh uh uh Ricky
30:25
about some you I just saw something about a month ago about Parkinson's and
30:29
they're they're making it harder to qualify for Parkinson's benefits through
30:34
the settlement. I think I was reading that correctly. But um so uh we know you
30:41
work with Chris Chris Nuinsky is on the board and uh you guys work with the Dr.
30:48
Nuinsky. That's right. We I we all knew him as Chris Nuinsky before he was Dr.
30:52
Nuinsky. So sorry Dr. Nuinsky and but um you know you know you what kind of
30:59
findings are actually coming out from this research?
31:05
Well, Paul, there there's a lot of uh uh research, a lot of findings coming out.
31:10
You know, CTE was thought of that you have to die before they figure it out.
31:14
And there's a really really close uh uh action that's coming out now that, you
31:19
know, they're maybe going to be able to find out a cause of this before someone
31:23
pass away, which is going to change the entire perspective of the settlement and
31:29
uh the outlook of this overall. you know, the challenges within within this
31:33
concussion settlement. Uh, you know, it it's it's including the the implications
31:38
of things like race norming, uh, recent legal developments of what we're talking
31:42
about with the Parkinson, uh, with other attorneys getting involved with that on
31:47
some fraudulent issues, uh, you know, and the broader impact these issues have
31:51
on former player's health, the claims and long-term well-being as well. Um we
31:56
as a pack committee, we are independent advocacy. Although we are supported by
32:01
lee council and and and that particular uh uh attorney group, we still believe
32:06
that it's essential for the public, the media uh football community as a whole
32:11
to understand that these decisions uh after the men who built this league and
32:16
continue to live with these consequences of their playing careers. uh Parkinson
32:21
is is is a offshoot of ALS and all of the other uh uh components that really
32:26
comes with CTE as a whole. So, uh, you know, I know that we have been talking
32:31
about this at a as a committee group here recently and trying to figure out
32:35
how to navigate this and how to get this information out to not only former
32:39
players, but also to try to talk to some of these attorneys to make sure that
32:43
they stay in sync to making sure that if folks are having some Parkinson issues
32:49
that they're going through the right channels to be able to get compensation
32:52
from that. and uh Roxanne add a little bit more if you wouldn't mind to that
32:56
and uh to some of the other efforts that we're putting through and some of the
33:00
things that we've been working on as far as the Parkinson. Uh I know that you
33:04
know some of the attorneys that's dealing with this and currently we have
33:07
a petition uh that has been given to the courts uh to talk about if guys are
33:13
going through some Parkinson issues and I mentioned earlier about some of the
33:16
legal issues that recently legal issues and we're trying to trying to stop that
33:22
from being a problem for guys going down the road. So, we did put a petition in
33:26
that we're asking folks to sign and to support us uh to make sure that it's
33:30
fair and honest uh uh uh activities going down the road for guys in the
33:35
Parkinson. So, Roxan, if you have more to add about that, please do.
33:39
>> Absolutely. Ricky described it exactly how it's going on right now. What we're
33:46
what we're doing is for instance um uh one of our pack committee members who's
33:51
not here today, Lacy Leonard, who has a very um very heavy social media
33:56
following. Her husband was diagnosed with Parkinson's and she shares that
34:01
story online. So she would be okay with me sharing it here. um her husband was
34:07
diagnosed in the concussion settlement and then she you know he was diagnosed
34:11
again with Parkinson's and she went back um to the settlement and he developed
34:15
Parkinson's within the amount of years of him being diagnosed with um you know
34:19
TBI to current today. So those are that's a common situation guys um you
34:25
know they're diagnosed with concussion damage and then they would end up with
34:29
Parkinson's or ALS. I I spoke to a guy this morning that has ALS who was
34:34
diagnosed with TBI back about five years ago. So unfortunately, you know, it
34:40
oftent times heads in that direction. So as the PAC committee, we want to make
34:44
sure we're here to help usher guys through the process and that they are u
34:48
treated fair and equitably throughout the process that if they do have ALS or
34:53
Parkinson's that that is determined and they're compensated for that and they
34:58
receive the care that they need. So that's one of the things that we're
35:01
doing as a pack because like we said earlier and was describing a lot of guys
35:06
kind of just give up. I mean and they're just like I'm done. I don't want to
35:10
fight anymore. I'm never going to get my settlement. And that's what we're here
35:14
to help them. you know, it's difficult for us to make, you know, changes within
35:18
the settlement that have been made legally between um, you know, the class
35:23
council and the NFL, but we definitely, you know, can usher guys through the
35:28
process and and and bring visibility to those guys who aren't being, you know,
35:33
maybe their case isn't being looked at fairly by the claims administrator or
35:37
they need to appeal. You know, we try to help with those type of things.
35:43
Hopefully I did an accurate job describing it, Ricky.
35:47
>> No, no, well done. Thank you for that.
35:50
>> So, my question is, and I'm going to go off your questions here, is
35:58
I met Paul two years ago.
36:01
>> Mhm.
36:02
>> And we have slowly started doing this and I've known other NFL players and
36:09
everything by the realm that we walk in. Um,
36:14
I always thought NFL took care of their players.
36:20
I did, you know, and I always thought, you know, but as me, as a retired rodeo
36:27
cowboy, when you're done, you're done.
36:31
>> You know, the the buck stops. You're on your own. Have a good life. And I even
36:37
worked with a guy that actually won a Super Bowl ring with the Washington
36:43
Redskins. And uh me and him got talking years ago.
36:48
And but I always thought and it seems like
36:53
over this concussion settlement that everything happened to make sure CTE got
36:58
taken out of the equation and because of that. But you would think
37:05
with like Parkinson's like Brett Favre.
37:08
>> Mhm.
37:09
>> And then the new guy that just got Parkinson's. I think you just mentioned
37:13
him, didn't you, Ricky Ray?
37:15
>> Ahmad Green.
37:16
>> Yeah. Ahmad Green. That the NFL that's part of the concussion
37:22
settlement. Correct.
37:24
>> Yeah. But you have
37:25
>> So why is it so damn hard if you're diagnosed with Parkinson's? Why is why
37:31
is there a need and here comes the question that Paul had written out is
37:37
what are the resources and support available of players for their families
37:42
is why is there a need for a pack a player advocacy group
37:52
for something that seems so common sense and so easy that
37:57
>> cut and dry
37:58
>> cut and dry
37:58
>> if you have it you get paid Right. If you have it, you get paid. If you don't
38:02
have it, you don't get paid.
38:03
>> And if you're older, if you're older, you get paid a little less and that's
38:06
it,
38:07
>> right? But I mean, why ain't it that easy?
38:11
>> It it's it's not that easy. It's 20,000 former players registered for the
38:15
settlement. And to answer your question, right now we're looking at a small
38:20
percentage, 10% have received compensation. The settlement is
38:24
complicated. And it's complicated because there are ways of determining
38:28
compensation whether it's age, whether it's the uh the the the element. Uh it's
38:36
it's it's just a litany of of of things. So right now we're looking at, you know,
38:40
if you're a three-year vested player or if you're 70 years old, you you're
38:45
reaching a a timeline. So, you know, you can age out of this. the settlement goes
38:49
for 65 years, but they're also saying that once you reach 70, your your
38:54
particular compensation goes downhill. Uh, you know, we we have talked to some
38:59
guys previously that had had other concerns of their medical conditions and
39:03
that also reduced their compensation. Uh these are some of the complicated areas
39:08
of the settlement in fine print that if you don't read and if you don't have
39:13
people talking to you about those things, you're thinking that hey this is
39:17
what's happening to me. So why shouldn't I not get compensated for my injuries or
39:21
my illnesses or whatever. But through those complicated issues that's involved
39:26
into the settlement, it's just a long long process to go through. Guys fall
39:30
off the wayside. They don't get their attorneys talking to them and etc etc
39:34
etc. And before you know it, you know, we are coming up on the 10-y year
39:38
anniversary of this settlement and there are still a lot of guys that's in the
39:41
settlement that haven't even gone through any testing yet. So those are
39:45
some of the complicated issues that we are facing dealing with this settlement
39:48
as we see it today.
39:50
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story isn't over. Let's begin again with your brain. You know, I was one and
40:44
done. I'm on disability and I and when I applied, they didn't deny me. They
40:51
didn't reject me. It was one and done. I had all my medical. I wish it was,
40:57
>> you know, is it this settlement a lot like that for the people that ain't the
41:01
one and done that have to go back and they get denied and then they get denied
41:05
again and then they get denied again and then they got to get attorneys and they
41:09
got to fight. Is the NFL is this settlement kind of like that?
41:14
>> No, I wouldn't say so. And I and I work closely with different guys with social
41:18
security. Um because one of the things in the settle and for disability for NFL
41:24
disability if guys are diagnosed um you know total and permanently disabled
41:29
through social security they receive their total and permanent disability
41:32
through the NFL. And from what I've seen with social security
41:37
it's not as difficult as a concussion settlement. I think it's a completely
41:41
different animal and Irvin Ricky could you know shed light on that. It's I wish
41:46
it was as easy as social security.
41:49
>> Yeah.
41:50
>> Why ain't it?
41:53
>> Because of money.
41:54
>> Well, would
41:55
>> No, I think it, like I said earlier, I think it's it's it's convoluted on
42:00
purpose. It's not, you know, every word, every aspect of the settlement, every
42:05
hoop you have to jump through is is put there on purpose. It's not, you know, if
42:10
they could make it very straightforward and simple. say if you're diagnosed
42:14
regardless of age or whatever you could maybe you could have it cheered in terms
42:17
of compensation amount but it could be very straightforward but to me u what
42:23
has the NFL ever done regarding players that was ever straightforward not
42:27
anything I could think of so this is no different
42:32
>> what are the biggest unanswered questions about the concussion
42:37
settlement that players deserve clarity on,
42:45
>> you know, Paul, I I would just like to say that one of the main concerns with
42:50
this settlement is that, you know, it's the families and former players facing
42:54
long delays, uh, the inconsistency on the medical
42:58
reviews, and just the unexplained denials. Uh, when all of those things
43:03
happen, it's just you got to kind of hit a reset. And if you got to go through
43:08
the reset, you know, again, whether you got the correct attorney that's watching
43:13
over you or if you have the right information that you have access to,
43:18
those are some of the complicated issues that is involving with this particular
43:23
settlement. um you know we're we're looking at the
43:26
10 year anniversary if I'm just speaking and you know we also are considering
43:31
what can we do as a committee that can take down some of these barriers that
43:37
has been in in in place for 10 years. If we go another 10 years then
43:42
unfortunately a lot of the guys that's in the settlement is not going to be
43:45
here. So you know we're trying to get guys you know and families taken care of
43:49
now. We want them to take a look at this this settlement and to say that, you
43:54
know, if if you were starting this 10 years ago, what we know now, what would
43:59
you want to be changed? So, I'm hoping that uh our advocacy can get to that
44:04
point of communication that, you know, we can take down some of these barriers
44:07
and uh and and move along and you know, at the end of the day, I think we
44:11
mentioned at the top is that it was talking about compensation. is overall
44:15
the NFL is not strapped for catch and for whatever reason on why they don't
44:20
want to take this settlement and put it in place and take care of the athletes
44:23
that made their game for them. It's just it's just be fun to think about it
44:29
>> when when you talk about the you know being involved with the class council
44:34
you that our are our um the that the special masters is judge Brody still at
44:42
the helm
44:45
>> she is not she's not
44:46
>> judge Brody and for a fact uh I want to say that Judge Brody is
44:52
passed away but I'm not sure.
44:53
>> Oh wow. Okay. So why did you leave the pack if you were in the inception and
44:58
started it? Why did you walk away?
45:00
>> There there were many reasons and again there was uh that first of first and
45:07
foremost my family, my daughter and then uh also there were other situations
45:12
where I just um it it was very intense. I I couldn't when I first got there I
45:19
was appalled. I mean, I did not understand
45:27
the issue of how racorming could be involved in in in
45:36
that settlement. I and and I was just it was I don't know if I I don't know if I
45:45
lost faith in the system or whatever, but uh it it um I I think um I just
45:53
couldn't believe the things that were happening, the things that we were
45:57
trying to accomplish. Like I said, there was a quagmire of things that were just
46:02
uh going on when I first started with the team. And uh um
46:10
it it for for no I guess good reason or excuse. I mean it's just uh I just
46:17
didn't have the gumption to to stick with it. So but obviously
46:22
I'm I'm a strong advocate of the players that um I mean I I I heard and maybe you
46:29
you guys can uh val validate this statistic.
46:34
Did I hear correctly that 100% of the um applications for um a payout
46:44
were denied like in 2023 or 2024. I I I heard and maybe I heard incorrectly, but
46:52
100% like 165 applications were denied and sent back into the appeals process.
46:59
Did Did that is that still taking place or Am
47:05
I Am I mistaken?
47:07
>> I don't know. I mean, I I know a lot of guys who have
47:11
gone through the process. Well, say a lot, but quite a few. And I don't know
47:16
anybody who's gotten
47:20
u who's not been denied initially, who who who if they ultimately did get
47:24
awarded, it was after multiple appeals. Uh, one friend of mine, it took him uh,
47:31
he got I think he got paid two years ago and it took him 10 years.
47:38
>> Yeah, I would agree with with her. I know very few people who were just
47:42
outright Well, let me make a correction to that. A lot of the Hall of Fame guys
47:48
who applied were paid right away
47:54
>> and there's only 300 and something most other guys had to
48:00
The Hall of Fame guys that did apply for the concussion settlement, from my
48:03
understanding of the ones that I know of, they were paid without having to go
48:08
through what most players go through.
48:13
>> So, in other words, it's name of the fame.
48:15
>> I can't.
48:16
>> That's the typical typical MMO of the NFL. There's brand guys.
48:22
>> Well, I think that's typical with any sport.
48:25
>> Yeah. there there's those guys that you know the that that the that the that the
48:28
that the that the that the that the that the that the that the that sports use as
48:29
their brand. So they're going to take care of those guys first and make sure
48:33
that you know those guys are not in the public view or media or doing anything
48:37
to you know to represent them in a negative way. So you know and that's why
48:41
as a group and we all know as former players is that the best way to to to
48:46
not get us to do something is to separate us, right? So, you know, we we
48:50
really should be working as whether no matter whether you're a Hall of Famer or
48:54
you're a journeyman or or one-year player or whatever the case may be, you
48:58
should be all on the same accord going through these particular processes
49:01
because if by numbers is how we also can get an advantage. Uh you know this this
49:07
this process is just is you know families are being worn down by the
49:11
process. Uh it's not really always medical facts. uh the navigation, you
49:16
know, people have to navigate through these process and have cognitive
49:19
decline. Uh Herb mentioned it earlier, they have financial strains and
49:23
emotional exhaustion. Uh it's and and again, is this systemically done? No. I
49:29
think that the, you know, the legal minds within the NFL and people who put
49:33
this together on their behalf, they've always acted like this and when it comes
49:36
to uh concerns and issues and they are using all of the things in their
49:40
toolkits to make sure that this is not an easy process because they didn't even
49:44
want to admit that there was a problem in the first place. So for them to make
49:47
it easier to go to to go through this just would be too much like being doing
49:52
the right thing. Well,
49:54
>> and and if I can echo a little bit on what Rick is saying, just living through
49:59
it. Um my ex has been applied right when the settlement dropped. And if you the
50:05
language of the settlement is that if you were if you um pre-effective,
50:10
meaning um if you're a pre-effective player, you get a um a diagnosis from a
50:15
boardcertified neurologist. His diagnosis was from a well-known board
50:20
certified neurologist. He diagnosed him with traumatic brain injury from
50:24
repeated head injury and he was denied. He was denied
50:29
um he was approved then denied and then approved again and then denied and then
50:35
we took it to the appellet court and the appellet court denied it and to this day
50:40
he's never received a settlement and that wore him out. It made him whenever
50:44
the the the whole mention of come the NFL concussion settlement would come up
50:48
in conversation. He became irate and very angry and it wore him down to the
50:54
point where he couldn't even do conference calls with attorneys anymore
50:59
regarding
51:00
>> his concussion settlement because it enraged him. Cuz remember these guys
51:05
have frontal lobe damage and it it affects their their impulse control, all
51:09
of those things. So bringing that up over and over again, being constantly
51:14
denied, it wore him out and and made him very angry. So like Ricky said, it's
51:20
just, you know, unfortunately it's it's set up where guys just either you get
51:25
worn out and give up, you just become explosive or or just it's all negative.
51:31
And you shouldn't have to go through this when a a boardcertified neurologist
51:35
will diagnose these players having brain damage. It should be very simple, right?
51:41
But it's not designed that way, unfortunately.
51:43
>> This episode of the Head Rush podcast is brought to you by the Patrick Risha CTE
51:48
Awareness Foundation. Their goal is the to spread awareness about the dangers of
51:54
RHI, repetitive head impacts, after losing their son Patrick to CTE. Sadly,
52:01
there are too many like Patrick that have lost their families, jobs, and
52:06
sometimes their lives. And this foundation is working hard to stop the
52:10
devastation then that can come from not protecting the brain. This foundation
52:16
provides parents of schoolage children with information about the dangers of
52:21
sports, concussive sports and activities which involve head trauma. They
52:28
advertise on social media, print media and billboards. Please follow them on
52:33
Instagram, Facebook, and Tik Tok, and share their ads with others. And please
52:38
visit their website, stopctte.org, to find ways to help people recognize
52:45
the disease if confronted with it in their family, and how to prevent the
52:51
suffering that can come to families when a brain is damaged. The website has
52:57
medical forms to take to doctor's visits and advocacy letters if you want to help
53:04
make change in your community. And their most recent campaign is geared up to
53:09
help coaches build brainhealthy teams. You can use the information on
53:15
stopct.org website to understand CTE,
53:20
live with CTE, and prevent CTE. Please visit. Thank you. And don't knock it.
53:28
>> Stop cop.org.
53:32
>> Well, look at George Visker.
53:35
>> Mhm.
53:35
>> I mean, we just had him on. He drops here on Monday. But from the outside
53:41
looking in, I'm not an NFL player. I'm not alumni. I'm not I didn't pay my $70.
53:48
I'm not I don't understand this NFL alumni to where I could
53:52
>> You could be an NFL.
53:54
>> I know. Why in the hell would I even want to do that? I didn't play. It's
53:58
kind of like saying, "Yeah, I could say I was a PRCA alumni, but I never bought
54:04
a card."
54:05
>> Just pay to play. How do I mean it's crazy, but from the outside looking in
54:12
and from what you just told me, there's about 20,000
54:15
people that NFL players that this settlement is going to mean for. If
54:21
you're playing right now, this settlement does not involve you. This is
54:26
2014 prior.
54:28
>> So, you're looking at people like Paul. When you got drafted, it was for
54:34
$55,000.
54:36
>> My first year salary.
54:38
>> First year salary for $55,000.
54:40
>> Wow.
54:41
>> And I was rich,
54:43
>> you know, and I mean, you could go and you could ask Irv and Ricky Ray and I'm
54:47
sure all of theirs are right there with you.
54:49
>> No, they went in the USFL. They probably got paid.
54:54
>> Well, well, I think it's and I, you know, everything's relative obviously.
54:58
You know, that was what 40 years ago,
55:02
>> right? But my point is is out of the 20,000
55:06
you get people that are going to die of old age that are fighting through this
55:12
process trying to get through the settlement. They're going to die off
55:17
because of TBI and everything else, Parkinson's, ALS, or just old age, high
55:23
blood pressure, diabetes, arthritic, heart problems, whatever.
55:29
You know, we all got large hearts because we're all athletes. I'm dealing
55:34
with heart issues right now. I got to deal with and it's part of being an
55:37
athlete. So
55:41
from the outside looking in, if there's only 20,000 people that I got to work
55:48
through this settlement, if I want to say, well, if you play three years, you
55:55
get this much of your salary or whatever this is. If you played five, if you
56:00
played two, you get this. Hell, if I deny you three times, you
56:06
might die by then. The saying is,
56:10
>> you know, and I just hate to say it, but they're playing the numbers game.
56:13
>> The the saying that Brandy, I thought it was coined. I was talking to Marvin
56:19
Washington. Uh Marvin was a defensive lineman, Irvin, when you were at the
56:23
Jets. And he was saying, "Oh, deny, deny, deny, and then you die or until
56:28
you die."
56:29
>> Lie, lie, lie, deny, deny, deny, and then you die.
56:31
>> Then you die. They talk to you, they deny you, and then you die. And I and I
56:35
was talking to Brand We were talking to Brandy Weinens. Jeff Weinans was one of
56:40
the early uh CT or CTE uh casualties. He he uh committed suicide, you know, back
56:47
in the8s, I believe, but he played in the 70s. And uh um she said that that
56:54
saying was around back then. And it was just it was just amazing to me that uh
57:01
the the the bar has not moved too much. The needle I I'm I'm praying that you
57:08
guys continue to move move the needle. And
57:11
>> so out of 20,000, how many are still alive?
57:14
>> Well, we probably have about 20,000 alive right now, right? Is that correct,
57:19
Rick?
57:19
>> That's what we're talking about. Living people that
57:21
>> Yeah, we probably got less than 20,000, Paul.
57:24
>> Yeah. And what did it start out with? No, the settlement started off with
57:30
around 20,000 uh uh people in this particular uh claims and as of today as
57:37
I mentioned before is only 10% of those guys has received any compensation and I
57:41
don't know we are working on some numbers uh within our committee to to to
57:46
get some really actual stats on how many guys has has has passed away since that
57:50
time frame but it's a significant number of people that has has been passed on or
57:57
they have other elements that is now coming about that's also affecting the
58:01
payout of this particular settlement. Um you know if I could go just go back and
58:06
and kind of compare where we were and what the NFL is saying they are doing
58:12
now and where they are. So, I last year, you guys may or may not have seen this,
58:18
but there was a quarterback playing for the uh Miami Dolphins, and he really
58:25
took a tough tough hit in one of the games, the national TV game
58:29
>> and to the point where he could barely walk off the field. And I was thinking
58:33
that when I was looking at this on TV that this guy is now going to go through
58:36
the concussion protocol. He's not going to be able to play for the next month.
58:40
And before you know it, a couple series later, this guy was driving back onto
58:45
the field. And today, he's into another team's training camp. So, my point is is
58:49
that there's no real change in the NFL except for their
58:54
facade of day of talking about these changes, but you know, these guys are
58:58
going to be going through the same things I mentioned earlier that we're
59:01
going through right now. And the same process is going to be repetitive. And
59:06
with these particular barriers or hurdles with settlement as
59:11
Irv and and Roxy has mentioned, are they in there on purpose? They're in there so
59:16
to take care of the legalities of the settlement so that it's not an easy
59:20
payout process. Uh where's the money going prior to the settlement? We don't
59:25
know, but we're going to find that out as well. Uh, so there's a lot of
59:28
advocacy stuff behind the table that we want to know why this settlement is not
59:32
as seamless as it should be or to make more sense, why are we just not paying
59:36
out guys who's having illness and illnesses?
59:39
>> I I think the the the the it is evident that the pack is desperately needed. I
59:47
think you guys keep the faith, keep pushing, keep fighting.
59:51
>> Oh, 100%. What you guys are doing are allowing people to actually
59:58
>> navigate
59:59
>> navigate the maze that it takes to
1:00:02
>> it's a labyrinth
1:00:03
>> to work through this because obviously this is they're playing a numbers game.
1:00:09
>> There's only 20,000 people in this and you were talking about the Dolphins
1:00:14
player. Look at the Super Bowl this last year.
1:00:18
The guy left the field because of a head injuries. They took him off the field.
1:00:22
The other team scored a touchdown. They brought him back on.
1:00:26
>> Correct.
1:00:26
>> That's at the Super Bowl. He was cleared.
1:00:32
>> Yeah.
1:00:32
>> I'm going to give you a look and then I'm going to slap you.
1:00:36
>> It's nothing. It's nothing to joke about, but that's
1:00:38
>> that's what I mean. It's not a joke. This is
1:00:41
>> this is late life.
1:00:42
>> You look at high school football. Hell with the NFL. Look at high school
1:00:47
football. The Herb, you're in Texas. The Nisha Satic concussion protocol,
1:00:55
>> right?
1:00:57
>> How valuable is that really?
1:01:01
>> Well, I mean, I think you know, so again, even with that is it, you know,
1:01:06
like having a concussion protocol. I mean, like, if
1:01:10
you were a I don't know, if you worked at a factory and you fell and hit your
1:01:13
head, you'd probably be out a month or two, right?
1:01:17
Cuz that's how cautious they would be. But like Ricky said, they sent two back
1:01:22
on the field a couple plays later and the guy had no idea where he was.
1:01:26
>> I just think that when it comes to sports, in particular, football,
1:01:31
players are seen as replaceable parts, right? They're always going to be more
1:01:36
players. So, and they're expendable in the sense that that, you know, when you
1:01:41
can't play anymore, you have no value. Not to the league, you don't. You know,
1:01:45
you really don't. It's sad to say, but you know, if you can't play, then what
1:01:49
value are you? Just let and I think that's how a lot of retired players are
1:01:54
seen. It's like, well, what's the what's in it for us? which is nothing obviously
1:01:59
at this point, but these guys that have, you know, built the built the foundation
1:02:03
of the league on their backs, but unfortunately that's how it's seen in a
1:02:06
lot of ways.
1:02:08
>> And down here, you know, is, you know, in high school football and so on, you
1:02:11
know, everybody's going to make the league, of course,
1:02:14
>> right? But I mean, I'm talking about the nishes law that Texas passed for the
1:02:19
concussion protocol.
1:02:21
>> It really doesn't protect that much.
1:02:24
>> Right. Right.
1:02:25
>> It protects the school more than it does the that that's just covering their
1:02:28
butts,
1:02:29
>> right?
1:02:30
>> Say when when when some kid dies on the field, which will happen, which has
1:02:33
happened, which will happen again. Well, we had the protocols in place, we don't
1:02:37
have a liability. And that's what it's that's what it's really about. It's not
1:02:40
about doing anything in actuality. It's about covering themselves so when the
1:02:45
inevitable happens, you know, they can be covered.
1:02:49
>> Quick quick funny story about, you know, the NFL, not for long. And we we all
1:02:55
think if we when we make it to the NFL, we think, "Oh, wow. I we I must be
1:02:59
something else, right? I mean, you played V for the Chiefs for five years
1:03:03
and the USFL and the the Jets and whatever." And uh and uh and I was just
1:03:09
at a I was just at a a golf a charity golf tournament for autism up in New
1:03:14
Hampshire. And I'm one of like eight maybe 11 players ever to play in the NFL
1:03:19
out of the state of New Hampshire. And you know there were about about three
1:03:23
people there that knew and and you know they went to high school with me that
1:03:27
knew you know he that's Paul F. I had to actually introduce myself for those that
1:03:31
that you know that don't know me. So it it is not for long.
1:03:35
>> Well that's 90% of the NFL players period. It's like the rodeo Cowboys.
1:03:42
Nobody knows who Corey Barry was because I wasn't a top 15er. I wasn't a Hall of
1:03:47
Famer. I wasn't a
1:03:49
>> Ray Lewis. I wasn't a standout. I wasn't one of the ones that everyone put on the
1:03:54
media.
1:03:55
>> That's goes back to the the pro the Hall of Fame players getting paid out.
1:04:00
>> That's what I'm saying. If you're if you're in the media, I guarantee you if
1:04:05
Priest Holmes or the quarterback for the Chiefs now,
1:04:12
um Patrick Yeah. Patrick Mahomes Patrick Mahomes gets Parkinson's. He's getting
1:04:18
paid out. because they don't need him on social media talking about the but now
1:04:24
it don't matter because he's
1:04:26
>> pre 2014 but that's what I'm saying I mean how many I and I hate to say this
1:04:32
guys I don't know who Ricky Ray was and I guarantee you in the 80s and 90s I was
1:04:38
a freaking football fanatic
1:04:41
>> you don't you you you never heard of my name
1:04:44
>> exactly that's what I'm saying so them people don't mind because when you say
1:04:49
that when you think he made it to the NFL, there's only a select few that
1:04:53
people care about. I could tell you I was a 49er fanatic.
1:04:59
>> I knew every player on the 49ers, but I could tell you now. But you know what
1:05:04
shocked me is when George Fisker when he told me that Eddie Debardalo
1:05:09
>> and he was telling me about suing the 49ers and all of this, I was like, "Hold
1:05:13
it, hold it, hold it, hold it." Whoa. This is [ __ ]
1:05:17
Because you thought Eddie would take care
1:05:19
>> Eddie Deardalo took care of his players.
1:05:21
>> Yeah. Well, that's you.
1:05:23
>> And I lived in the Bay Area and everyone told me Eddie Deardo takes care of his
1:05:27
players. And George Viskers goes, "No, if you're one of Eddie's boys."
1:05:31
>> This episode of the Head Rush podcast is brought to you by our personal doctor
1:05:37
and team of doctors. Uh Dr. Misel Meiselle Deo and she's with the Paradise
1:05:43
Behavioral Health and we are in the Brainwell program which is also part of
1:05:49
the Millennium Health Center. Uh Dr. Mark Gordon, you've seen him on Joe
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Rogan and even on our show, the Head Rush podcast.
1:06:00
Um and the hormones and Myelle is awesome.
1:06:07
We love her. She's she's our doctor of psychiatry. She works the Mark Gordon
1:06:12
program with the hormones and uh and she she adds her twist of genetics and um
1:06:19
and it's it's it basically is melding two wonderful uh uh mediums together and
1:06:26
we're getting great help from Dr. Myisel Deo. So please check out her website at
1:06:31
paradise behavioral.com.
1:06:35
>> Look up the brainwell program. get involved.
1:06:39
>> She's sponsoring us. They're sponsoring us for the next year. So, we are excited
1:06:43
to have them on board and uh and and shout the new the good news to everybody
1:06:49
uh that is watching these broadcasts. So,
1:06:53
>> is she helping you, Paul?
1:06:54
>> Absolutely.
1:06:55
>> She's helping me. So, go check her out. Paradise Behavioral Health.com.
1:07:01
>> That's just all all teams done that. You know, I I I played I played with New
1:07:05
Orleans when Bum Phillips came in
1:07:07
>> and you know, I you know, I didn't particularly think that Bum was a really
1:07:12
good coach and a lot of people do and that's just my opinion, right? And I can
1:07:16
say that as a player. Uh but what you were just saying is so true because Bum
1:07:21
went out to to the golf and he went fishing with George Rogers and Ricky
1:07:25
Jackson and a couple other guys. And then you read your Sports Illustrated
1:07:29
and that means that Bum Phillips is a great team coach. He's he talks to all
1:07:34
his players and and and he does all of this stuff with all of the players and
1:07:38
during the cold week B would go up into the tower and you wouldn't even talk to
1:07:41
him until game day. So all of that is is just facade and even more so Paul you
1:07:47
had mentioned a little bit earlier about this pack committee and why we are so
1:07:51
needed because we are really an oversight committee and we need more
1:07:55
oversight on the total settlement as well. I mean, someone wanted to be in an
1:07:59
oversight of the special masters and the claims adjusters and even the attorneys.
1:08:04
We need some other oversight with all of that. However, as an independent
1:08:09
advocacy committee, uh we just believe that it's essential for the public, the
1:08:13
media, football community to understand how these decisions and all the rest of
1:08:18
the stuff that's going on really affect the men who built the league. And if we
1:08:21
can't get out here and talk about it as we doing today, then it's going to be
1:08:25
for not for those guys that is not going through the settlement in the way that
1:08:28
they supposed to.
1:08:30
>> We are up.
1:08:31
>> Go ahead, Roxy.
1:08:34
>> I just want to say I agree with Ricky and I you guys unfortunately I have to
1:08:39
jump off. I have another meeting but Ricky and Iv have they can carry it from
1:08:42
here and I want to thank Corey and Paul for having us on here and for for
1:08:46
listening to help put the word out about what's going on. and we would love to,
1:08:51
you know, tag your podcast on some of our social media. And I want to thank
1:08:56
you guys so much for having me.
1:08:57
>> Thank you, Rox.
1:08:58
>> Thank you, Roxy. It's a pleasure. And I hope your boy rocks it and baseball just
1:09:02
like Q does. It's neat knowing that there was some another kid that
1:09:08
>> I talked to a mother of another kid that's down there. That's two people I
1:09:12
know down there now. So,
1:09:14
>> thank you, Roxan. Wonderful to see you.
1:09:16
>> And he ain't getting concussions hitting baseball.
1:09:21
>> Thank you so much.
1:09:22
>> Thank you guys.
1:09:23
>> Take care.
1:09:24
>> And Ricky and her, we are up against it. We do like to leave the We do like to
1:09:29
leave the listeners with a word of hope. I know this is a a tough uh subject to
1:09:35
grab some hope out of, but please can you share some hope uh for our
1:09:39
listeners, you know, through through what you're doing at the uh pack
1:09:43
committee? Go
1:09:45
>> ahead, Ricky. Uh, sure. You know, again, you know, as Roxy's just saying, we like
1:09:51
to thank everybody for uh letting us join and and and getting a part of this
1:09:55
important conversation. Uh, you know, the pack committee, we're going to
1:09:58
continue to evolve and uh the decisions being made today will affect former
1:10:03
players for years to come. And one of our responsibilities is our commitment.
1:10:07
Uh we want to make sure that players are informed, supported, and never left to
1:10:11
navigate this system alone.
1:10:14
>> Yeah. And you know, just to piggy back on what Ricky said, I think, and Paul,
1:10:18
I'm sure you felt the same way when you were um involved in the committee. Uh
1:10:24
we're only here because we care and we have passion for making change. Okay? Uh
1:10:31
you know, we're unaffiliated for, you know, with with the NFL and anything
1:10:37
involved in that. And certainly not about uh it being a job. is is a passion
1:10:42
and I think that we will continue to uh do everything we can to bring about
1:10:47
change. You know, all of us here old enough to remember when things were
1:10:51
worse than they are now. And only reason some things were changed because, you
1:10:55
know, sunlight is the best disinfectant. And we got to keep shining a light on it
1:11:00
and being verbal about it and being loud about it and using every means we can to
1:11:04
bring attention to the inequities and the and the issues with the system and
1:11:08
hopefully, you know, won't change it completely at once and and it's a slow
1:11:12
change, but you know, we got to start somewhere. And I think that that's what
1:11:16
uh our objective is. And, you know, we just do a little bit at a time, as much
1:11:19
as we can.
1:11:21
>> Keep on plugging, keep the faith. We're we're uh here to do anything we can to
1:11:25
uh you know enhance your efforts. If there's any if if there's anything we
1:11:30
can do, please uh call on us. Uh Ricky and her
1:11:34
>> doing enough, Paul. Thank you for Thank you, Paul. Really appreciate you guys.
1:11:37
>> Yeah. And I mean, you guys are doing a great job. You know, they got the
1:11:41
Justice Cowboy Crisis Fund for the Cowboys. There's also Dave Sel has his.
1:11:48
You know, there's foundations out there to help the Cowboys going through
1:11:51
medical, but and it's not through any rodeo associations. It's nonprofit
1:11:59
associations helping. And so, you know, having people like you to
1:12:05
guide because the difference between us and you guys is you were employees of
1:12:10
the NFL. And to have someone to stand up and say,
1:12:14
"You know what, Corey, you may not know who Paul Frase
1:12:19
was, but he was a banger for 10 years, and this settlement says that if he gets
1:12:24
Parkinson's or predement or ALS or something that he can get a portion of
1:12:31
this, that's part if you go to work and you get hurt at work,
1:12:39
that's that's what George
1:12:41
>> you at workman's comp.
1:12:42
>> That's what George Vizer's Vizar's uhh plight was. Uh and and Rico Patrini.
1:12:49
>> And Rico Patrini. If you go to work and you get hurt, there's workman's comp to
1:12:54
cover you. Well, you guys are getting hurt at work that's doing longlasting
1:13:00
damage that was not known about back in them time. Even though it was, you know,
1:13:06
I'm not going to, you know, I knew as a kid if I threw my head against a wall 38
1:13:12
times in a day, it was not going to be good for my head. But I didn't know that
1:13:17
going out and riding a bucking horse is going to do what it did to me now.
1:13:24
>> And playing football and skiing and boxing and everything I've done in my
1:13:29
life is going to get me where I'm at now. So, an employer paid you to go out
1:13:36
and do this. You need an advocate because we know that they're not going
1:13:41
to make it streamline to where you get Parkinson's, here's $100,000.
1:13:47
You get this, you get this, you get this. They're not going to make it that
1:13:51
easy because
1:13:53
>> they won't stay in business.
1:13:56
>> Yeah. you know, we we we're coming up on that
1:13:59
10th anniversary of this settlement. As we mentioned, uh you know, we're looking
1:14:03
for things that we can change within the settlement to make it a little bit more
1:14:07
seamless. The NFL stance is that if they could go 10 years back, they will go to
1:14:12
court for the settlement because they didn't even want to agree that this even
1:14:15
took place. They think they can win this case. So, they're not even in tune to to
1:14:19
what we are trying to, you know, to do with the changes of the 10 year
1:14:22
anniversary. They're saying that if they had to go back into it, they would just
1:14:26
go to court and there wouldn't be no settlement at all.
1:14:29
>> That's unfortunate.
1:14:31
>> Well, stay with it. Stay with it, please.
1:14:35
>> Yes, sir.
1:14:36
>> You know, I mean, you look at Paul, he's probably I bet you you could probably
1:14:41
get a TED
1:14:44
>> clinical diagnosis, and then come January in Bethesda, they're having
1:14:50
Chris, we'll pro talk to you about it. They're having the tees
1:14:56
discussion at NIH in January in Bethesda.
1:15:00
>> Yep.
1:15:01
>> And
1:15:01
>> I'll be there.
1:15:03
>> And we're probably we're trying to be there ourselves because it'll affect me
1:15:07
directly because I'm already clinically tees.
1:15:12
So if they move that over to a medical diagnosis, that moves me over
1:15:16
immediately.
1:15:18
>> Yeah.
1:15:19
>> There's no testing needed. I just move right into that realm which could help
1:15:23
me and help others you know and that's where I push Paul on it all the time is
1:15:28
this going and getting the traumatic and sephilopathy syndrome clinical diagnosis
1:15:33
is only helping our cause you know but
1:15:38
you know it takes a lot of effort a lot of time and a lot of money to do it I
1:15:43
tell you it I've had more scans more neur neurological evaluations more
1:15:48
everything than you can imagine to get where I'm at now. And if this becomes
1:15:55
something, it's even going to help you guys out even more. But it's not going
1:16:00
to change the settlement. The settlement's already been signed on the
1:16:03
dotted line. It's already been stamped. It's already done. It's already been
1:16:07
through the court with
1:16:09
>> uh Ricky, what are what are your thoughts? Uh how does the you know when
1:16:14
they do uh find that biioarker that they can definitively say you have CTE? while
1:16:20
you're alive.
1:16:20
>> It doesn't affect you.
1:16:21
>> Well, let what my question is what is the process? Is it a whole another
1:16:27
lawsuit versus you know, you have to crank up
1:16:32
the lawsuit again or a new
1:16:34
>> Yeah, I'm sure it is. Uh, you know, as as you just mentioned, this settlement
1:16:38
is kind is so difficult to make any changes within this current settlement
1:16:42
as is reading now. But that is going to open up a whole new platform and it's
1:16:48
going to not only take care of the existing players as as as we are now but
1:16:52
also the current players who's currently playing right now. So uh yeah that is
1:16:57
something that you know is right around the corner hopefully and and if when it
1:17:01
does it's going to open open up a whole different conversation Paul on what
1:17:05
they're going to be doing about this particular uh uh uh uh piece of action
1:17:09
item here. So, we're
1:17:11
>> Well, I guarantee you that'll be the biggest fight in the world because I
1:17:15
mean, oh yeah,
1:17:16
>> then universities are going to be called into play, high schools are going to be
1:17:20
called into play, junior high schools are going to be called into play,
1:17:25
>> you know, Marcus,
1:17:27
>> the whole game is going to change.
1:17:29
>> Yeah. Well,
1:17:30
>> yep.
1:17:32
>> Again, appreciate it. Good seeing you guys both. Irv,
1:17:36
>> good to see you, Paul.
1:17:36
>> Let's not make it another 42 years or 30 years. down the road, man.
1:17:41
>> 70 miles away, man. Give me a holler.
1:17:44
>> Good.
1:17:45
>> He's only in San Antonio.
1:17:46
>> I do that all the time.
1:17:47
>> I know. I appreciate.
1:17:48
>> But you know what's funny is we're here in Dallas right now. And who's your good
1:17:53
friend here in Texas?
1:17:55
>> What? The DJ?
1:17:57
>> Yeah. Dale Johnston.
1:17:59
>> Have you reached out to him once?
1:18:01
>> He's busy
1:18:01
>> when you're in Dallas.
1:18:03
>> He's busy. He He
1:18:04
>> You've been here over a year. You say he's a good friend of yours. Do you come
1:18:08
every month for over a year out to him?
1:18:11
>> Are you talking about him being on the show? Absolutely not. Because
1:18:15
>> No. No. Not about
1:18:16
>> I reach out to him probably once every few months.
1:18:21
>> Have you reached out and say, "Hey, I'm going to be in Dallas on such and such a
1:18:24
date. You want to have dinner?"
1:18:26
>> No, because I rest my case.
1:18:29
>> There you go. I guess rest my
1:18:31
>> Tell you what, my son lives in Dallas. I'll reach out to your people and if you
1:18:35
can work me in.
1:18:36
>> Okay. You know,
1:18:39
>> I'm here 13 hours. I fly from Florida.
1:18:42
>> Paul, you don't Hey, I understand. I'm gonna reach out to your people and if
1:18:46
you can work it out, let me know.
1:18:48
>> You You know, you were one of my favorite unless I was practicing against
1:18:52
you or Thank you.
1:18:54
>> Eman calling for Paul who?
1:18:56
>> Yeah, that's right.
1:18:57
>> Eman who?
1:18:58
>> That's right.
1:19:00
>> No, if you said Condor, I would have said, "Oh."
1:19:02
>> Oh, okay. All right. Thanks.
1:19:05
>> What was your nickname?
1:19:07
>> I didn't Everybody guys appreciate it.
1:19:10
>> Good one.
1:19:11
>> All right. Thanks.
1:19:12
>> Thank you. And I appreciate it. Thank you for everything you guys are doing.
1:19:16
It was nice meeting you all. And hey, keep up the fight.
1:19:20
>> All right.
1:19:20
>> It's a pleasure. Take care. Ricky. Talk to you later, bro.
1:19:24
>> Okay.
1:19:24
>> Okay.
1:19:25
>> So, what was your nickname? And don't tell me you didn't Everybody had
1:19:28
>> Not not of the Jets. I had one at the Jacksonville because I was an old guy. I
1:19:33
was the eighth and ninth year at Jacksonville. And I used to sprint. I
1:19:37
used to chase the running backs and the wide receivers when they went into the
1:19:41
end zone. Usually the running backs or wide receivers, they'd get a c catch a
1:19:45
pass or and they'd sprint to the end zone. And I as a defensive lineman, I
1:19:49
wanted to be in shape. So I literally would track them all the way to the end
1:19:53
zone in practice and double sessions. So I got the nickname Sparky.
1:19:59
True story.
1:20:00
>> I We may have to stay with that. Spark plug.
1:20:02
>> Sparky.
1:20:03
>> This is Spark plug. Welcome to the headrest.
1:20:06
>> Sparky. Sparky. Spark plug. So, great. Please. Yeah. Great episode. Wonderful
1:20:13
friends. Uh they're doing a great job. Um please like, subscribe, share, um
1:20:19
>> review, follow, all that stuff. Boost the algo algorithms. help us spread the
1:20:25
news of the dire uh straits of repeated head impacts and what can happen to your
1:20:32
brain health and wellness. So stay alert, stay alive.
1:20:38
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1:20:55
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1:21:00
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1:21:03
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