091 | Nick Guerrieri | One Store at The Time: Converting Demand Through Sampling with Chelly, Modernized Limoncello

Show Notes

Episode Deep-Dive Analysis Available at maffeodrinks.com 

In this episode, I spoke to Nick Guerrieri, founder of Chelly, who shares how he crafted a modernized limoncello out of Arizona—a place few associate with classic Italian citrus liqueurs.

By reducing sugar and viscosity, Chelly repositions limoncello from a narrow digestif to a spirit capable of starring in cocktails or being served neatly.

Nick’s strategy relies on grassroots sampling at liquor stores and festivals, weaving a genuine “behind-the-scenes” brand narrative on social media, and balancing on-trade listings with hands-on retail demos.

Distinctive branding elements, like his signature lemon shirt and recipe lookbooks, help Chelly stand out.

Over five years, Chelly has built momentum by focusing on direct consumer feedback, turning local pride in Arizona’s citrus heritage into a marketing edge, and carefully expanding bar menu placements and off-trade distribution.

Timestamps:

00:00 Introduction and Podcast Overview

00:29 Meet Nick Guerrieri: The Limoncello Innovator

01:21 Crafting a Modernized Limoncello

02:05 Consumer Reactions and Market Penetration

03:06 Marketing Strategies and Visual Branding

06:42 On-Trade vs. Off-trade Sales Tactics

14:22 Sampling and Direct Consumer Feedback

22:45 The Importance of Small Wins and Persistence

26:30 Final Thoughts and Farewell

Interested in Group Subscriptions, Keynote Presentations or Advisory? You can get in touch at [e-mail] or find out more at maffeodrinks.com 

Creators and Guests

Host

Chris Maffeo

Drinks Leadership Advisor | Bridging Bottom-Up Reality & Top-Down Expectations

Guest

Nick Guerrieri

Founder | Chelly Modernized Limoncello

What is MAFFEO DRINKS?

The MAFFEO DRINKS Podcast is a leading drinks industry podcast delivering frontline insights for drinks leadership.

For founders, directors, distributor MDs, and hospitality leaders navigating the tension between bottom-up reality and top-down expectations.

20+ years building brands across 30+ markets. Each episode features drinks builders: founders, distributors, commercial directors, sharing how the drinks industry actually works. Not the conference version. Honest conversations.

Insights come from sitting at the bar.

Beyond episodes: advisory for leadership teams, subscription with episode deep dives and principles to navigate your own reality.

Beer, wine, spirits, Low and non-alcoholic.

Bottom-up Insights & Episode Deep Dives at https://maffeodrinks.com

Hey drinks builder, this is
Chris Mafael, and you're

listening to the Mafael Drinks
Podcast Today.

We are reaching listeners in
over 100 countries and I'm

grateful you're one of them.
Before we dive in, a quick

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Check it out at

mafiadrinks.substack.com.
Now let's get into today's

conversation.
Hi Nick, welcome to the Massa

Drinks podcast.
How you doing?

I'm doing great, Chris.
How about yourself?

I have a bit of a strange voice
today because I had no voice,

but it will be, it will be fine
in the end.

It's a nice time zone
difference.

You're in, in Phoenix, AZ, I'm
in Prague and it's, it's nice

to, to finally have you.
I mean, we've been interacting a

lot on Instagram and you know,
on social media for a couple of

years.
I've been following your journey

and I think, you know, like I
really, I really want to deep

dive in, in, in, in what you're
doing.

And especially, I mean, the big
thing for me is, is the

consistency that you're having
into building the brand.

It really from the bottom up.
You know, I'm really going out

there and the sampling and so
on.

And so today I want to give
these insights to the listeners,

if you are, if you're happy to
share some, some, some tricks

and some findings and insights
for, for founders like you that

are really like, kind of like
feeling a little bit lost

sometimes and say like, you
know, I really need to get out

there and, and, and, and do it.
So let's let's start.

So, so tell tell us about your
your product in a very short,

short way.
Awesome.

Well, first, Chris, just want to
appreciate the opportunity of

being a part of this and I'm
honored to be on this week's

episode.
I've been following you for a

long time as well and always
preach to people too that bottom

up is how you do this.
So I'm practicing what you're

preaching all the time.
So I appreciate you having me.

We distill and craft a
modernized limoncello.

Limoncello is something that's
been around for over 100 years,

started in Italy.
It is normally considered a

digestive and A and a liqueur.
And what we are creating it is a

modernized version of that.
So there's less sugar, it's less

viscous, and it's something that
can be used in a variety of ways

as either a modifier or a base
spirit.

So we're we're pitching an
authentic Italian story about

how this recipe has has gone
through generations of my

family.
And now we're pitching it in a

new light that Limoncello hasn't
been offered before to

customers.
Fantastic, fantastic.

That's, that's a story I can
relate to as a, as an Italian.

And, and So what, you know, what
was the first reaction?

Because I mean, of course, like
you don't think of Limoncello

when you think of Arizona now.
So what, what, what, what, how,

how do consumer and trade, you
know, react to, to, to this

product?
So.

The reaction has been really,
really strong.

We've been at this now for five
years.

Everyone knows here in Arizona
that citrus plays a big part

into our everyday lives.
It's actually one of the 5C's of

Arizona when Arizona was
founded.

These are like the five pillars
of the economy, a cotton

capital, climate, citrus,
copper.

But everyone always says to us,
hey, if you need more lemons, I

have some in my backyard.
We always get tons and tons of

people are always offering free
lemons to make their lemon

cello.
So the reaction's been great.

Pictures is a big part of what
we do our oranges and lemons

around, you know, seasonal
times.

There's, there's, there are the
boxes of these just sometimes

out in people's driveway that
they need to make some more

space in their their backyard?
Wow, that's very interesting.

And and I'm always talking about
the target occasion, the

consumption occasional because
you mentioned that the

traditional way of course is the
after dinner digestive kind of

experience, but you are bringing
this kind of like modernized

occasion to the table now.
So how did you get them to

understand this new way?
Yeah, great question.

So that's what we're still after
till this day.

So a lot of what we do is
educating the consumer.

And what we do by that is we
sample a lot liquor stores

specifically, it's more of a
intimate one-on-one conversation

with the person who's getting
sampled.

So talking about the story,
telling them about, you know,

what they can do with this
product, how versatile it is.

And if they're already aware of
limoncello, it's more of free

educating them about how ours
can be different.

So right, you have two different
components of someone who's

already familiar with limoncello
and retraining them of how ours

is different.
And then someone who has no idea

what limoncello is.
And so having each component

having a different story of how
it can relate to them in their

everyday use cases of how
they're drinking their spirits

and whatnot, but having the
one-on-one conversation with

them.
And and not only, you know,

customers get inundated with
words and marketing and things

like that.
So we also rely heavily on

visuals.
So something different is we

actually create like cocktail
look books of different ways

that they can enjoy our product.
And we even break it down to

they don't want to look through
a large cocktail book.

We even have little recipe cards
for them.

So whether they're interested in
buying at that moment, they even

take it home for inspiration or
it's another piece of market

material for them next time to
stop into a store that they're

like, Oh yeah, Shelly, I wanted
to make that martini or Cosmo or

etcetera.
So do you having those

one-on-one intimate
conversations with customers and

educating them on how our
Limoncello can be used and how

it's different than traditional
sense has been crucial in our

success, so.
Far and then talking about

visuals I remember like your
your famous shirts with lemons.

Love it when I see it on
Instagram.

I was like, I need to get one of
those.

Actually, I was, I, I didn't
know if this was just video or

audio and so I was actually
debating on wearing that or not.

But it's funny you asked.
That is actually one of the

small things where you can make
a difference into a customer

remembering you or your brand.
I remember I was looking for

little subtle ways in order to
stick out and I found this cool,

fun lemon shirt.
And you'd be surprised how many

people Remember Me walking out
on the street or at a festival

and they remember like, Hey,
you're the lemon shirt guy.

I remember you.
And so I even have people at

festivals buy the shirt off of
me.

So I'm even thinking there's
some, there's some merch

opportunity that that we need to
capitalize on.

So I'm just, I'm honestly kind
of shocked how many people like

the shirts.
That's a great and, and I mean,

what I, what I love is I've been
following your journey for for a

couple of years now, the
relentless focus on execution.

Now I remember, you know, like I
see you in the car with the

cartoons on Instagram and I see
you like really, really going

for it now and the fact that you
are really pushing the, the the

home turf law.
So if I understood correctly,

you're only selling in in
Arizona for?

Now, so right now we're just
focusing on on one skill, one

location and really just trying
to focus on executing and

building out the the success
model before we can move to

other states.
And to your point about really

focusing on the execution and
sharing the story, I think

something that can be missing
today is really the behind the

scenes of what it actually takes
to build a drinks brand.

And I think that's why you've
been so successful opening up

these stories about what it
actually takes in order to go

from zero to 1.
And So what we try to do is open

up that story and to show people
what it takes about the

delivering of the product, the
creation of the product, how

we're selling, how we're
promoting the product, right?

We don't have the same resources
that some of these big houses.

So for us to open it up and show
them this is what it takes.

The customers have shown that
they really appreciate that

transparency.
And so they want to support the

local smaller guys, if you will.
And they're able to champion

that story somehow in their own
lives.

And they're able to then relate
in a way where they're sharing

with their friends and family
about, hey, I met so and so

they're building this brand.
I love what they're about.

I like their values and if you
know, let's let's grab a bottle

or send it out to a gift for a
family member.

I mean, we get that all the
time.

And people either send emails or
messages about how, you know,

they heard about us.
We saw us at a festival and they

tell their friends and family
about it.

So we definitely value
transparency and showing what it

actually takes to to build a
dream spend, kind of like what

you're doing yourself and and
what we're sharing today.

That's it.
And So what is the share you're

selling?
Is it like more like skewed to

the on trade or to the off
trade?

I would say we primarily focus
these days on the on premise.

So something that we found is
that you know there's not a lot

of people looking exactly for a
limoncello.

So we use liquor stores more as
an intimate one-on-one setting

to educate the customer on
Limoncello and how ours is

different and how they can use
it, but in a more scalable way.

We use on trade as a way to
introduce the brand to more

people without us having to, I
guess, be hand to hand combat,

right?
I've probably have sold to our

first couple 1000 customers.
Hand to hand combat is kind of

what I call it.
Whereas if we can get a menu

placement at a bar, it self
markets itself, they're getting

exposure to the name because
it's, you know, the brand names

on the menu, they can see it
live in an occasion of where

they could possibly have it at
another bar or at home.

So that primarily in that
category, we can talk a little

bit more about.
I know that's something you

preach on is finding the
category that fits each your

product, but we found a specific
drink in a category that really

resonates with customers.
And so we're able to use that

category of drink and see where
Zach presented the most and what

type of restaurants and bars.
So we're able to then be more

strategic and again, focus on
execution.

Whereas, you know, we're no,
we're not going to probably be

successful in a dive bar.
You know, the the financials and

the competition of what you're
going against.

They don't value high quality
liquids as much, say as a high

end cocktail bar or a five star
Michelin restaurant.

And so basically like on on the
menu from the same correctly.

So they are.
They are riding Shelly and and.

That's the thing about building
and nurturing that relationship

is that if you're not, I guess
in touch with the person making

that, they're just going to
throw on whatever they they want

to throw on there.
Whereas if you're building that

relationship and you're able to
kind of give them some some

pointers or feedback of, hey,
we'd love to be able to have our

brand named as this again, it
doesn't happen all the time.

At the end of the day, it is up
to them.

But if they do allow brand names
on there, we try to get Shelly

modernized Limoncello as we
think those are the three

crucial I guess points to what
we actually offer.

So again, it's more marketing on
our end.

It tells the customer exactly
what it is.

And again, we want to put in the
modernized word because most

people ask why is it modernized?
And then we can go into how it's

different than limoncello.
So the menu placements are key,

as you know, and every Drinks
Browner founder will say.

I mean, the cocktail, the
cocktail menu is the key.

But also what's interesting for
me is that I I see how it works

in in other categories as well.
Campati, for example, it's a

brand name, but it's sold almost
a category on its own.

So nobody really knows what a
bitter is.

If you have any girl need, then
he was always be like even if

they don't mention name,
sometimes they fall on to

mentioning Campari because they
don't even think that there is

another way of calling it now.
So they say like it's with

vermouth, Campari and gin.
They don't put the name of the

gym.
They don't put the name of the

vermouth, but they put Campari.
And So what I'm what I was

thinking about when you were
talking as if you at some point

will manage to actually get
Shelley as a name of a brand and

category, then it would be a
winner because actually you

don't even have to push it, you
know, like it will be actually

automatically considered by
bartenders.

Exactly.
And to your point, right, what

Aperol did with spritz is when
you see Aperol, typically you,

you see people immediately think
of a spritz.

And so they own that.
It's almost like they created

the, this the spritz category.
And so talking more about the

category that that we're trying
to fit in is a just a rift on

that, right?
Using social media also has been

a big bonus for us in terms of
learning how customers are

behaving and reacting to
different types of drinks and

categories.
And something over the last

couple years that has gotten
millions and millions of views

is a Limoncello spritz.
And it's something that's less

bitter than an Aperol spritz for
those who want something a

little less aggressive in that
sense where we come in and, and

pitch it out of the chili
spritz.

And there's a lot of, you know,
Mediterranean style cuisines

that keep popping up in the
Arizona scene.

And so we really use them as
anchors of if you're not selling

an apparel spritz, here's
something called a Celli spritz.

It's a limoncello spritz.
It's all over TikTok.

It's a light, it's delicious, it
looks great.

And so that's really the
category that we've been pushing

and and we've had some success
so far with that.

That's nice.
And it brings back to the

focusing on one cocktail in this
example, but also on the this

kind of apparative occasion to
really make an impact and

explain people how to use it.
Because sometimes that's the

problem to get a, to get a
bottle and then they don't know

what to do with it.
And then and you know, they're

just like putting in their
cabinets and and that's it.

And it stays there for four
years and.

And that's one of the things is
that you try not to over

complicate what you can do with
the product.

And I think that's why obviously
with base spirits, right, most

of the customers know what to do
with a vodka or a whiskey or a

gin, etcetera.
But when you come out with

something niche and you're
trying to retrain a customer's

brain that, hey, it's not a
digestive, it can be used as

this trying to find that
category that it inmates the

least amount of work for that
customer, right?

Because we have a cocktail book,
we have all these recipes, but a

customer only has a couple split
seconds of what they're going to

choose or what they're going to
want, right?

And they're most of the time
going to choose the most easy,

straightforward thing because
they're making thousands of

decisions a day.
So when you kind of get behind

that psychology of the customer
is finding the, what are the

easiest low hanging fruit ways
that we can pitch our product in

where they're doing the least
amount of work because they

don't want to.
And I'm talking more

generalizations and then
scalable terms.

They're not going to read every
single ingredient lists on a

drink venue.
They're not going to learn about

what makes it modernize the
mancello.

If it's something that they
realize they noticed on the menu

and they've already had an
experience with a good

experience, they're going to
order that in a in a quicker

fashion.
I agree.

If you think about the the most,
let's say scalable brands or

like the let's say the most
successful at least like lately,

it's also the replicability of
it.

Now why has Negroni taken over
so much?

Because it's easy to make.
I mean one third, one third, one

third.
It's easy.

So it people don't have to think
that much about it.

It's easy for restaurants that
are short staffed.

I have a diagram.
I have one of my frameworks that

I use for how skilled the
bartender in the venue is.

No, and then, you know, many
times the restaurant doesn't

even have a bartender that's
listening here in Europe, you

know, like in the USI mean all
you know, cocktail are so

widespread.
But if you take Europe, many

times the waiter is making
coffee and spritz and gin and

tonics.
So if you make it easy for them

to make and pour and you know,
Chuck some eyes and that's it.

It's, you know, they even think
of upselling it now, but if they

know really, I've got 5 tables
to serve this drink is super

complicated.
I hope they don't ask for it.

And if they ask for it, then I
may say we ran out of it.

Building on your point about the
psychological aspect of you made

their life easier.
And then they're more likely to

recommend it, to sell it to, to
do it.

And and obviously, I mean if you
if they even make good margins

on it, then it's even better.
And to your point about not

overcomplicating it with the
cocktail bulk in the recipes,

like you said, right, you have a
diagram of level of complexity

split up our cocktails and even
on our website and things like

that based on just the ease of
making it.

So specifically when we give
buyers our cocktail look book,

that's mainly what that's used
for.

So they're going to be more well
versed in in the drinks world

and have a a catalog.
So we're kind of building a

catalog for them.
And how we do it is we we

segment it in different types of
channels and venues, right?

So dive bar is a category in
there that has a lot more simple

things, right?
A beer and a shot of this,

whereas you go down a couple
more categories into a cocktail

bar, you're going to have riffs
on like the bee's knees and

things like that, right where
there's 6-7 steps in a cocktail.

But just showing the variety of
how many different forms and

ways that we can be served is
important for that type of buyer

we're we're pitching to because
they appreciate that and they

understand that.
However, always pitching that to

an everyday customer, just going
to a liquor store can be a bit

mush.
So we tailor it towards the area

where how well versed are there
in their spirits journey, if you

will, and just showing them
basic things.

So a lot of the times we're
saying any flavored soda water,

pour it on ice and and do a shot
of Celli and it's a masterpiece.

It it tastes delicious.
And so those are easy,

actionable things that they can
take home and they'll go ahead

and buy a Topo Chico or right
then at the store and grab a

bottle of Celli because it's
something that's super easy and

straightforward.
So adjusting and tailoring to

what type of venue, where at,
what type of customers are

coming in.
We tailor our story and and how

we're pitching our drink it
depending on on those

situations.
Let's dive into this the off

trade sampling.
I love when you see you in, I

don't know if it's a total wine
or this kind of big stores where

I see you.
I love how you put your, you

know, your phone or camera
behind you and you are

showcasing the, the actual
sampling in action.

So how, how does he work in in
that sense?

So first of all, are these
stores happy to to have you on

and have been rotating the
product or is it tough to get a

spot there?
How?

How does it work in the kind of
like behind the scene?

People in Arizona really have an
affinity towards local products,

so we use what's in our tool
belt.

So when we're pitching to buyers
getting in on off trade entree,

we're relying heavily on our
storytelling, the authentic

story that no one else can copy.
We're talking about how we're

using lemons from local farmers
here.

We're talking about how, you
know, our distilleries right

down the street from here and
things like that.

And so that really builds
relatable pieces of, hey, we're

just not a big conglomerate
brand, you know, coming from

another state, this is in your
backyard and we're trying to

ship your customers something
that's delicious and it's

something they can take pride in
that Arizonians are currently

making to speaking about your.
Talking about the, the videos of

showing the samplings, that just
speaks more to the transparency

in the behind the scenes of how
we're building this thing.

Not only does it increase more
eyeballs on our brand, right?

Distributions, everything.
And being that we're only in

Arizona, it's a way for us to
promote not only our story and

our brand, but also again, true
authenticity of, hey, we're just

like you and we're out.
This is how we're spreading the

word.
We're out there grassroots,

building bottom up, if you will.
And so that's really the, the

key to this is building a bottom
up and talking to customers,

getting their feedback.
And it is great because our tag

line is dangerously delicious.
And that wasn't anything that we

thought of.
There was 2 common things and,

and adjectives that kept coming
up when a customer tried our

product and it was dangerous.
And it was, this is delicious.

And so when we were thinking
about it and, and something that

separates us as well as we're
very data-driven.

So when we're at these
samplings, we have our sampling

sheets, you know, what's their
gender there?

What are the comments they had?
And after reviewing all of this

information, these two words
kept popping up.

And so when we were
brainstorming, thinking, hey,

what if we just combine the two
words?

Dangerously delicious.
And the next, you know, we

trademarked it, that was our
tagline and customers having a

loving expense, but that speaks
to the importance of sampling

and talking with customers and
and you know consumers in the

market, they're giving you
direct feedback on whether they

accept your product, your
messaging, etcetera, etcetera.

And you can use that to continue
to reiterate your messaging,

your products, anything out like
that.

It's it's, it's one of the best
effective ways and you're just

getting direct feedback from
your customers.

Wow, I love this because it's
especially like it's one of the

things that I also do a lot is
doing this kind of like small

experiments, you know, And if,
if you wish, that's exactly how

brands are build bottom up came
up.

I started writing it just as a
nice way to close.

I was just like in my flow of
writing and I just do that.

And then I, I noticed people
started referencing that.

No, Oh, brands will build bottom
up, as Chris Moffair was saying.

And then, you know, you got like
1-2 or three, four people and

then all of a sudden it's like
you're getting something there

in, in pushing this kind of like
bottom up framework and

narrative.
No, So it's, it's very

interesting.
Sometimes we're stuck into the

office thinking now it's like,
oh, let me think of a tagline or

what could be cool rather than
actually you've got it there.

It came from from these people
and same applies, I'm sure for

cocktails.
Now you may have thought about

whatever like an another drink
and then the, the, the the

spritz comes in and then people
are seeing how easy it is to

make.
And then all of a sudden it

becomes your your flagship kind
of cocktail that you're pushing

just because the direct feedback
and listening and continuous,

you know, iterations and
improvements that that make that

that happen.
I came up with the bottom up

trade now instead of talking on
and off is basically like the

trade where you you can do the
storytelling.

There is someone between you and
the bottle, whether it's a

bartender, waiter, a clerk, and
it's very important.

We tend to forget.
And I mean, I was the first

guilty one.
I'm forgetting it because I'm a

big, you know, bar lover and
restaurant lover.

So I was always brands are
building on trade.

They're building on trade.
No, they're not.

I mean, if you take a non trade
outlet in the middle of nowhere

in Arizona where the weights
are, they don't even ask which

brand you want.
But then if you go into a

smaller store or it doesn't have
to even have to be small.

It can be total wine.
But with the trained clerk that

can actually navigate the
consumer, it makes a lot of

difference on on this.
So what role does that play

compared to on trade in terms of
sampling in?

So with off trade, something
that we really appreciate again

and and some of the examples of
getting our tag line and and

things like that and getting the
direct feedback is it's a more

intimate space rather than on
trade.

On trade has some difficulties
within a self.

I mean, both sides do, but on
trade normally, you know,

there's 10/15/20 plus employees,
there's a lot of turnover,

things like that.
Whereas we found that the off

trade is a little more stable in
terms of the managers there and

some of the clerks and you're
able to have a more quieter, you

know, a quieter environment in
order to, you know, even do the

staff trainings and, and things
like that.

So we found out off trade is
really where we get most of our

direct customer feedback because
we're the ones that are, are

pitching it.
However, on trade, it's more

about there's an intermediary of
the bartenders.

So customers ordering off the
menu, they're serving it and

then us then talking to the
restaurant or the bartender

beverage director about, Hey,
how's it going?

Things like that, right.
So you're always going to have

this, I guess, telephone, if you
will, or filter of you're

getting the feedback through the
restaurants, which is still very

important.
But each one serves its own

purpose in terms of, you know,
on one channel we're getting

direct feedback to us.
Where's the other one?

We're getting it from the
restaurant, which are both

important, but there's different
ways that and, you know,

different levels of, I guess,
understanding what they're

trying to, to tell us and, and
things like that.

And are the specific chains in
which you are more likely to do

that, like how how does it work
in Arizona?

You can do wet sampling And is
there only certain chains that

let you do the sampling or is it
like more widespread?

And how do you select where
where it's worth?

It's a good question.
Total Wine is our big main chain

that we're in and and we sampled
out all the stores in our state

and so it is a wet sampling
state.

So if you have a a liquor store
license, you can sample.

There are some variety varieties
in terms of if you have an S

license or not, meaning that the
brands themselves don't have to

book it.
You just have to have an opening

space in your store and you can
sample.

But places like Total Wine are,
you know, they're a lot bigger,

so they need to have more things
in order.

So you have to book it, make
sure there's an open slot.

And so we use Total Wine
primarily as our direct feedback

loop in terms of houses,
marketing, messaging, how is

fishing this type of drink in
this area?

And so there's some further
things under the hood as well

that we look at in terms of
where is this total Wine

located?
If it's going to be located

where, you know, higher income
individuals are going to be that

we might pitch it with other,
you know, products within a

cocktail.
And this problem might be a

little more steps in it because,
right, the more products and

other liquids are in a cocktail,
it's going to be more expensive.

Whereas during a lower income
area, you're going to be

pitching more of the the simple
cheaper options like you don't

mix it with a, a flavored soda
water, etcetera.

So really looking at those, I
guess smaller things, if you

will, can make a big impact of
how successful you are with

these samplings.
And then also to the time of day

and, and when you're doing it
right, you want to be in there

when foot traffic is, is high.
You know, you don't want to be

in there and, and you know,
stand there for three hours and

you only sample two or three
people.

You want to be there when people
are going in before their

parties on Thursday, Friday,
Saturdays.

And so, you know, being able to
get in front of more people and

not only with liquor stores, we
have been able to have

opportunities with local
festivals where we can get in

front of anywhere from a couple
thousand to even sponsoring

festivals of a north of 100,000
people.

So we use all these
opportunities to try out

different things, different
messaging and things like that.

Wow.
And do you also analyze like

where you are listed in on trade
around those stores to try to

connect the two things if they
are more likely to have it

sampled already in the entree?
Do you do you notice that as it

happened to you that people
you're trying to sample to they

actually know the brand already
from from an on trade trial?

Yeah, that.
Definitely happens.

And I kind of think of that as
the the Barefoot Wines method

where they were going to charity
events in a certain area of

where their liquor stores were
and they found a a hidden gem

of, you know, hey, if we get
into a liquor store in this

neighborhood and there's a
charity event around there and

we sponsor and send free
product, their sales got boosted

in that specific store in that
area.

So I guess it's harder to
intentionally directly do that,

if you will, But within a
certain amount of radius, you

can focus on a, a strategy like
that.

But we've, we've had a lot of
people stay near a cluster of

restaurants where we're on the
menu and they see us on, you

know, out of total wine and
we're sampling at the table and

they're like, Hey, I, you know,
I had your drink and a, and a

chili spritz over there.
So again, it's all the small

wins at the end of the day.
You're just trying to stack

small wins every single day to,
you know, I always think of it,

you're, you're, you're in a
incline plane and you have a

boulder and you're just trying
to continually push that boulder

up the up the plane and you're
just trying to get it to that

tipping point.
And once you get there, you

know, hopefully everything's all
right.

But essentially it's just
stacking those small wins every

single day, whether it's getting
that good customer feedback or

that, that new drink idea or, or
anything, you know, or even just

posting the samplings, right?
It's all the small things.

All we're doing everyday is just
testing out different hypothesis

about, you know, different ways
that we can pitch it, different

areas that were might be
successful.

And so again, we're just out
here experimenting as much as we

can.
And, and at the end of the day,

we're just not, not afraid to
fail because you end up failing.

You're always learning.
So we we always have that growth

mindset going into every
opportunity that presents

itself.
That's beautiful, that's

beautiful.
And it's very, I mean, I almost

had a shiver on my back when,
when you were saying that

because I feel so much, you
know, it's, it's fantastic when

you get that kind of feedback.
Now, a funny story.

I was at BCB and I was in a
hotel and back home in Berlin

and I, I still have my name tag
on.

And there's like this guy in the
lift like and looks at me and

then he smiles and then I smile
back.

And then he says brands are
built bottom up.

And I was like, no way.
And it's like, yeah, yeah, I'm a

big, I'm a big listener.
And he was a sales guy working

for one of the big players in
Germany.

He's like, yeah, I listen to
your podcast and so on.

And so and I'm like, what are
the chances, you know, the bump

into a guy in the in the lift in
a hotel?

Exactly.
But these are the things when of

course it's not by chance
because I mean, it's a niche

podcast.
It's niche people.

I mean, it's not random people
that listen to this.

So I feel the same thing that
for you when you you play the

net for to be on the cocktail
menu in that bar and then you

get someone that actually
remembers that they had the

drink, you know, with a with a
positive experience.

And maybe they say, no,
actually, I don't need to try

because I know it very well.
And maybe I've got a couple of

bottles in the in the car.
It's already, you know, and then

it's like, wow, how do you
ensure that that story's happy?

Because the big issue in off
trade is always rotation on.

How do you avoid kind of like
dusty bottles on on the shelf?

How do you ensure that there is
that continuous rotations of

them?
You know, those guys are

actually happy to see you again
and, and, and advocate for your

for your products.
So depending on which channel,

so if you're talking about off
train, right, any liquor stores,

we do sampling, sampling,
sampling.

So anytime it gets up maybe a
little stale in a certain

season, we sample.
We sample as I was talking about

earlier, we pride ourselves in
keeping stats and data in terms

of where we're doing well, why
we're not doing well.

So we have a really high
sampling rate surrounding the

mid 40s.
So if we're sampling 10 people,

we're selling around over 4
bottles for every 10 we sample.

So we know if we extrapolate
that out and we can just get in

as many samples as as we can at
that store's location, we can

make them happy again, right.
Including everything else about

getting the customer within our
flywheel.

We have some other, you know,
strategies of being able to get

them to remember to repeat by
and things like that on the more

entree to keep them happy is
really about and and this goes

for both is really just showing
up.

So on your face, saying hi,
having a cocktail there, you

know, even if you you know,
maybe don't have the funds to do

that at at every restaurant is
simply just showing up.

How can I help you?
How can I support a lot of this

industry really is just about
showing up and they really

appreciate that because there's
a lot of, you know, reps out

there that just go there to dump
off product and just how to do

whatever.
But if you continually show up

and have and be thorough and
persistent, they really

appreciate that and they'll go
through hell and back for you

and your brand if you show that
on a consistent basis.

So that'll be my answer for both
of those.

Again, just showing up, but in a
in a more practical sense,

specifically for off trade is
sampling and sampling.

I've done personally over 200
sampling myself and I just think

it's really important and true.
Should I get people who want to

start drink brands all the time?
Ask me, you know what it's like?

And 1st, I tell them to
subscribe to, you know, the

Mafia podcast, but secondly, I
tell them you're going to be on

their feet sampling and doing
hand to hand combat, sharing

your story.
And if that's not something you

can fall in love with and, and
appreciate and loved and, you

know, maybe it's not the right
route for you, but I know for us

and for me, that's something I
really enjoy.

And that's why I've been in the
business for so long is because

of the, the human connection and
the relationships you're able to

build and use a beverage to be
that intermediary of, of

connection with, with other
people.

You know, that's a fantastic way
to wrap, to wrap up the, the,

the chat that we had.
I mean, it's I, I feel your

energy is, you know, it's the
first time we speak on the phone

and you know, feeling the, the,
the vibe, it's feeling the

passion is, is, is fantastic
because it, it, it takes time

and it takes gas, No.
And if you can't afford it, at

least afford it with your time.
Time is money as we say, but you

know, like if you can have a,
you know, a Hostess over steward

or something, I mean, you go
there yourself.

I mean like that there's no
other way to do it now.

And when it takes working
weekends and it takes whatever

it takes, but to get it off the
ground, I mean, to push that

ball that you were referring to
earlier, that's how you have to

do it now.
It's either money or time and

neither you buy a service or you
are that service and, and it's

important to repeat it our self.
And those small wins that you

mentioned earlier, you know,
they are the ones that actually

get you going and give you that
small thing that, that that says

like a like, you know, tomorrow
I'll do it again kind of thing.

So let me give you some sign to,
you know, to let people know how

to find you and Shelly and on
all the social media and so on.

And if you have any other
thoughts, feel free to to to

shoot.
So yeah, if anyone wants to get

in touch with me personally,
probably best through LinkedIn

and that's Nick Guerry would be
through LinkedIn.

And then if they want to check
out the brand and you know,

potentially get try out some
product, try out drink

chelly.com and that's also our
Instagram handle as well.

And if you reach out on the
Instagram handle, I see all of

those like it's the last
thoughts here as well as like

Chris was saying, it's really
all about the small wins and

that's what builds momentum and
and you just want to continue

build a small wins to build that
momentum.

And, and to your point, Chris,
what you're saying earlier

about, you know, that the
gentleman at the hotel telling

you about the bottoms up and
knowing that he that he listened

those go such a long way.
And it's some of the best

feeling.
And, and how that relates to us

is, you know, be we're
successful at one bar.

It does really well.
And you know, we I go into a

pitch into a new restaurant and
some of the whole bartender that

used to work there are you are
familiar with their product And

just then allowing that product
to come in there and see mostly

get on the menu placement
because they already had such a

great experience to some of the
best feeling in the world of

them loving and already knowing
your products because of the

time and effort that you put in
previously and, and building

and, and making, you know, the
accounts and clients happy.

So again, to all the listeners
out there, I would just say keep

your head down.
You know, it's a very, very long

journey.
And keep it locked in.

And tune into the Maffeo
podcast.

Fantastic.
Well, thanks a lot Mick.

It was, it was a great pleasure
and I will see you sometime

maybe next year.
I want to get back to the

States.
I haven't been in a while.

And then maybe a taste of the
cocktail or something like that.

We'll we'll bump into each
other.

We we'll have a drink.
Awesome.

Sounds great.
Again, thank you for the

opportunity of being on the
podcast and hopefully your your

listeners.
Got some today.

Fantastic tonic.
That's a wrap on today's

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