The Innovative Revenue Leader

What does it look like when a learning scientist gets her hands on the most powerful AI training technology ever built? On this episode of Innovative Revenue Leader, host Seth Marrs sits down with Lisa Ellis, Head of Product Management at Sandler, to explore how she is redesigning the way revenue organizations build knowledge, demonstrate skill, and embed lasting behavior change.

Lisa brings a rare combination of backgrounds: informal science educator, Harvard master's graduate in Education and Product Innovation, and the architect of Sandler's first AI role play simulation platform. The conversation covers why knowledge transfer alone leaves 80% of training investment on the table, how interactive AI tutors are replacing static e-learning, and what it actually means to go from conceptual understanding to real behavioral change on a Tuesday afternoon discovery call. If you lead a revenue organization and want to understand why training never seems to stick, Lisa gives you both the academic framework and the practical roadmap.

Takeaways:
  • Everboarding is no longer just a concept. The idea of continuous learning has existed for years, but the technology to actually deliver it at scale is finally here. AI tutors now let reps have a real conversation with new content the moment it ships, rather than absorbing a recording passively.

  • Passive learning stops where the real work begins. Multiple choice exams and recorded videos measure what someone knows, but they do not measure whether those skills show up on an actual call. The gap between knowing and doing is where most training investment disappears.

  • Behavioral measurement changes the return on training entirely. Research shows that even with genuine intent to apply what they have learned, only about 20% of skills actually transfer. Shifting measurement from knowledge recall to observed skill execution is a fundamentally different approach to enablement.

  • The frontline sales manager is the most overburdened person in a revenue organization. Forecasting, coaching, developing, and selling all land on one person. Technology that surfaces behavioral data reduces the failure points in manager led coaching without replacing the human relationship.

  • Methodology mastery has never been measurable at scale until now. Skills like upfront contracts and pain discovery are conceptually easy to understand but require going three or four layers deeper to execute effectively. Giving managers visibility into actual execution, not just self-reported knowledge, is what unlocks the full value of a methodology.

  • Learning through play is not a soft idea. It is the most effective model for building durable skills. Creating safe environments where reps can try things before they are ready, get real feedback, and recover from mistakes is what converts training into performance.

  • The entire e-learning strategy has to be rebuilt. Static Articulate Rise courses and pre-recorded videos are being disrupted. Organizations that continue to rely on them are leaving a generational leap in capability on the table.

Quote of the Show:
  • "You have to be uncomfortable to get comfortable with something." - Lisa Ellis

Links:

Ways to Tune In:

Creators and Guests

Guest
Seth Marrs

What is The Innovative Revenue Leader?

This podcast explores the future of sales performance, giving Chief Revenue Officers and other growth leaders the insights, tools, and stories they need to lead with confidence. Through candid conversations with top executives, analysts, and tech innovators, we uncover how to harness data, optimize talent, and build tech-enabled sales teams that win. Listeners will walk away with actionable strategies to drive growth, outpace change, and future-proof their revenue engine.

IRL - Lisa Ellis
Speaker 2: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Innovative Revenue Leader Podcast. I'm your host, Seth Mars. Join me as we deliver practical insights to help B2B CROs Find new and innovative ways to grow in this fast changing environment. The Innovative Revenue Leader is sponsored by Sandler, a triad company, empowering sales professionals and leaders to master the craft of selling at all levels.
squadcaster-jf2a_1_06-23-2026_130712: Hello, everyone. Today I get to introduce a partner of mine at Sandler. She's a learning experience innovator and, and product leader. She holds a master's from Harvard in Education and Product Innovation and has spent over a decade transforming how organizations build and deliver learning at scale.
She's launched Sandler's first-ever AI role play simulation platform, which I'm sure she'll talk about today, and architected an internal AI power-- power-- AI-powered knowledge engine, helping one of the most recognized names, that being Sandler, in training, uh, in stepping training up into some of the future things [00:01:00] that are happening, which we'll also to-touch on.
Earlier in her career, she got her start at Nova, the epic PBS science series, where she worked in production and outreach, bringing science education to broader audiences. In her current position as head of product at Sandler.
Lisa, great to have you on. Welcome.
lisa-ellis--she-her-_1_06-23-2026_100711: Well, thank you for that lovely introduction, Seth. It's great to be here
squadcaster-jf2a_1_06-23-2026_130712: Great to have you. So like jumping, jumping in, um, what's the most innovative thing that you're seeing in your world around, uh, B2B right now?
lisa-ellis--she-her-_1_06-23-2026_100711: I think the-- one of the most innovative things I'm seeing right now is the concept of everboarding coming out of concept and conceptual and into reality. And so when we think about everboarding, it's like sellers constantly have to learn new stuff. They've got to be ready on the new latest product releases. Product teams are shipping faster product features than they've ever done before. Um, and competitive positioning is changing, making sure that you have your talk tracks [00:02:00] down, that you're ready to go. Um, there's no just one onboarding. So that time to productivity when you hire a new rep, closing that is always something that we're looking for, but you have to keep your reps sharp and at the top of their game and knowledgeable, and doing that at scale is what people have been thinking about as everboarding.
So this is continuous learning. The technology that's available to do this now is really what's exciting and what I'm seeing being truly innovative. And that's taking like an AI role play, but then turning it into a dialogue around a specific concept. So in the platform we use, um, at Sandler that we've partnered with, this is Yoodli, uh, we use their tutors to be able to do this.
So we can upload a keynote, a document, and then like have it have a conversation with a rep about it. So d- gone are the days where you're sending recordings to your reps to be able to like absorb some information and they're just in conversation with it immediately
squadcaster-jf2a_1_06-23-2026_130712: Yeah. So it's, [00:03:00] it's phenomenal, right? Because for years people have talked about an LMS as a place to go to learning, and it's basically a pre-- a prescribed course. You take the course, you pass the test, technically done, and, and that's it. Then you saw role play come in, which is I can practice what I'm learning and I've got that going.
But what you're talking about is this bridge point that I don't think is really known as well, which is how do I have an interactive dialogue with content? And I, I almost think like, well, the way I relate to it is you think of NotebookLM, where you would go and upload that, that same-- You would upload that same keynote and have it give you a 15-minute podcast.
But what you're saying here is this isn't just gonna talk to you, it's gonna talk with you on concepts,
lisa-ellis--she-her-_1_06-23-2026_100711: Correct.
squadcaster-jf2a_1_06-23-2026_130712: Is
lisa-ellis--she-her-_1_06-23-2026_100711: And I think that's one of the things that I'm just, I'm so excited about. Like, I think about it this way. I know you're, you're thinking about NotebookLM. I watch a lot of videos for home improvement stuff, like I need to learn how to like swap out like a tub shower drain. [00:04:00] Instead of just watching the YouTube video and like having to scrub forward and backward, I'm in conversation with an AI that has fully ingested the video, has access to the rest of the internet, and can pinpoint me to the specific thing I need to watch again or see again. Or if I like, "Yeah, I already know how to do that, skip ahead," it's immediately taking me to where I need to go. So that w- autonomy for the adult learner we talk about as being so important to engage them and bring them in, it's real and it's tangible, which is really exciting.
squadcaster-jf2a_1_06-23-2026_130712: That's very cool. That's, that is very cool. And we're seeing it, right? Like you've, you've presented this and you've used it yourself. I think you used it for, even for prepping for, for this podcast.
lisa-ellis--she-her-_1_06-23-2026_100711: I, I did create a, uh, an AI version of you to practice this podcast with. So that was definitely one of the things that, um, I, I use it all the time. I'm demoing it to clients. We're actually rolling out our first fleet of tutors for Sandler clients, um, in the next couple of weeks, which I'm really [00:05:00] excited about
squadcaster-jf2a_1_06-23-2026_130712: Technology and, and getting to apply it with our methodology just gives us an opportunity for our customers to be able to really use it to make the, make the leap to-- from conceptual into actually using it to improve outcomes and results. It's cool. Super cool. One of the things that you've talked about a lot is these layers, right, of gaining knowledge, demonstrating...
And we actually kinda talked about it here a little bit with the technology, but knowledge, gaining knowledge, demonstrating skill, and then embedding behavior. Can, can you talk through these three and explain kind of what they mean from an academic standpoint and why they, why you need to get to embedded behavior and that knowledge just kind of i-isn't enough?
lisa-ellis--she-her-_1_06-23-2026_100711: Absolutely. So I think one of the things that everybody can relate to is taking a multiple choice exam. We all went through it in school. Um, you go to a class, you pass the class because you take an exam and [00:06:00] you show what you know. That is knowledge transfer. So I can recall facts and dates. You might even have a really tough exam where you're having to synthesize multiple points of information together, form an opinion. Maybe you need to demonstrate a skill you've learned. This is where AI role play comes in. Um, and so you can show what you know. That's where most training and learning stops because the institutions that are putting on the training or hosting it are not where you are going to go and live that information, where you need to retrieve it, where you need to make sure that those skills show up on a Tuesday afternoon discovery call. So that, that next layer is embedding behaviors, and I like to think about this as the accountability layer. Um, for a long time in the industry, what I would hear is, "We need to be in the flow of work. We need to put our content in the flow of work, um, and, and make reinforcement come up." I'm sure many salespeople and revenue leaders remember when, I think it was Qstream first came out, and it's like, "We're gonna [00:07:00] send you
squadcaster-jf2a_1_06-23-2026_130712: gonna say
lisa-ellis--she-her-_1_06-23-2026_100711: messages," and basically take
those remember that
assessments and break them down into a text message and, like, that was the idea of microlearning to reinforce concepts.
Now, spaced learning and repetition absolutely helps you with recall. what we found in the academic research is that doesn't necessarily correlate to skills implementation at work. So you can remember what to do, you can know what to do, but you're not gonna do it unless the environment supports it. So when I'm talking about embedding behaviors and where that knowing-doing gap starts to open up, it's because the environment you go back to working in doesn't have the visibility and reminders and prompts in place to cue you to form those new habits
squadcaster-jf2a_1_06-23-2026_130712: we had a lot of discussion about this probably around almost a year ago, like probably in, in July, August, around the difference between like how [00:08:00] you would understand a person's skill level, both from a, like to have them tell you what they think their skill level is versus demonstrate that skill through behaviors.
And we've made a very big bet going forward around, I'm gonna look at your behav- what you do rather than what you tell me you could do. How, how do you think about that? 'Cause this is one of the things that you were the catalyst of at the very beginning, is shifting ourselves to, like, I'm gonna look at you behaviorally, and you bought skills from Sandler that should make you a better seller, and I'm gonna look at it from how you can execute those either in a role play.
Like why is that so much more valuable than just I can-- I know th- I know this, so I can, I can just, I can tell you what's right and that should be good enough. You talked a little bit on, on, in, in kind of the explanation of foundations, but how does that play out in real life?
lisa-ellis--she-her-_1_06-23-2026_100711: I mean, if you think about your investment, uh, the academic re-research will show that even with intent to use what you've learned and what you know, only about 20% of those [00:09:00] skills transfer. So in terms of your return on investment, you paid for this whole selling system, only 20% of it is gonna transfer, even though there is actual willingness by those sellers to do it. So by transforming the measurement we're using from, "I know what to do in this scenario, I know how to do it," to, "I'm gonna watch you do it and give you feedback to say you were doing it, how well you were doing it at scale," is a fundamentally different way of doing things. Because, you know, when I think about the flaws in a lot of our education system, you measure what you can in a very tight period of time. What the technology that's now available to us can do is look at the long game. So this isn't replacing like manager-led co-coaching. That is still incredibly important here. That human relation and peer acknowledgement, all of that support is, is fantastic and it [00:10:00] needs to be there. But the visibility into that from a behavioral standpoint is just so much more powerful and more accurate
squadcaster-jf2a_1_06-23-2026_130712: Gotcha. Gotcha. So like When you think about the 20%, and I think one of the things you're painting is kind of this arc, right? Where it's instead of being a training that you would do once and then you're done with it, and maybe you do some coaching afterwards, this is a continuous arc that gets managed over and over and over.
So where that 20% may be 20% that you're gonna recall in your first attempt, but if you're constantly getting feedback on where you are, it just constantly allows you to improve and you pick up a percent, a percent, a percent until eventually you're hitting 80, 90% recall on the things you need to do really well.
Nobody's done that yet. So I mean, the power of a methodology is seems to have been limited to the 20%. What do you think that will unlock in having full visibility, like to a Sandler methodology [00:11:00] that we wholeheartedly believe in
lisa-ellis--she-her-_1_06-23-2026_100711: I
squadcaster-jf2a_1_06-23-2026_130712: the power of making that real, um, seems very big
lisa-ellis--she-her-_1_06-23-2026_100711: I think it will be. Um, I think about organizations like Toastmasters, right? You go, you know, a-
squadcaster-jf2a_1_06-23-2026_130712: That's true. Great example
lisa-ellis--she-her-_1_06-23-2026_100711: thing, especially when you're talking about soft skills, conversation things, things that are hard to monitor while you are doing them, right? So those are things that you need to get feedback on from a third party outside.
Somebody else has to be watching you as an individual to help you understand and have that awareness of, am I using the skills? Am I doing the things that I know that I should do? And, and that's really hard to do as like, if you don't have these, these systems like conversation intelligence and AI role play. Now that we have these technologies, it's really going to help the seller. I think from a methodology stan-standpoint, some of the things that I'm most excited about is to have the data to prove what [00:12:00] the army of Sandler clients and satisfied customers know, that upfront contracts change the accountability that they can have with their buyers. That the pain funnel and really going deep on it makes them more effective at communicating value. That they feel more confident in handling any objections that come their way, and that translates into revenue performance. On the flip side, I'm curious to see where we have these hunches and hypotheses, and maybe we're wrong.
But now we're gonna have data to be able to make it even better
squadcaster-jf2a_1_06-23-2026_130712: Yeah. And the truth is, our goal is to help you grow your business, not to train you, just to train you. We want-- The training becomes part of how we help you grow your business. So if we could find ways to improve, use, adapt, and, and make those things successful, it's gonna be great. It's gonna be great for us because we're gonna be looking at it and improving constantly, and having visibility through some of the work we're doing allows us to do that.
O-one of the [00:13:00] things that you touched on that I think is really interesting, and I'd be interested in your perspective on it, that, that, that I've seen, and I think you've talked about it as well, things like the upfront contract, things like pain, it's conceptually easy to understand what they are, and it's even conceptually easy to say somebody's trying to do one, like to do an upfront contract or trying to, to understand pain.
The gold in those skills seems to be the three or four layers deeper that, that you're able to go to master those at a way that you-- in a way that you can use it effectively beyond, um, setting an upfront, like just setting the, the what's gonna happen in a meeting, and it sounds like you're doing it, but you're doing one-fifth of it.
You built all these scorecards around how to assess these things What do you think the impact is? I mean, from a surface level skill where I can-- I, I think it, I-- Well, you tell me. It, it sounds like the, what most people learn is the knowledge. "Yep, I know what an upfront contract, and if I [00:14:00] see anything that relates to it, I can tell you you're doing it."
And it's-- And for us, there's like terms and words that the minute you see it, you know someone's trying to do it versus that effective level of being able to go three, four, five layers deep in pain effectively with a, with a customer. I mean, is there, was there really any possible way to do this without the technology that we have today?
Like, consistently. Like, unless you were a very motivated person to go in and make this work
lisa-ellis--she-her-_1_06-23-2026_100711: you couldn't do it at scale, right? So like
squadcaster-jf2a_1_06-23-2026_130712: Yeah. That's fair.
lisa-ellis--she-her-_1_06-23-2026_100711: Really well-trained manager who knew Sandler, who could go on a ride-along and give great feedback. But there are so many failure points in that model. Manager availability, their knowledge of the methodology, their ability to give good coaching feedback and provide insights. is, is, uh, like I mentioned before, it's still really critical, but the technology that exists today lightens the load and reduces the failure point on the managers, right? [00:15:00] So that I think is really critical. The other thing that I think is really interesting and nuanced about methodology measurement for machines. These machines are not designed to track like emotions or any type of sentiment, and we know that people buy emotionally and justify
squadcaster-jf2a_1_06-23-2026_130712: Yep
lisa-ellis--she-her-_1_06-23-2026_100711: And that's w- of the core of what Sandler teaches you to get at, is to make that emotional connection, build those strong relationships. So finding ways to measure that through these technologies, you have to be looking at it from so many different angles, be able to say, "Okay, an upfront contract starts at the beginning of the call," but maybe like there's a slight side quest 'cause you're adapting to somebody joining the meeting late, somebody has to leave early. You've got to recover and bring that back in. So you need to cover all of those interesting edge conditions of human behavior and what [00:16:00] happens in a real live call so that you are looking at the whole picture. and, and that is fundamentally very challenging to do. Now, we've made attempts in the past where we would have keyword trackers, like if time or, you
squadcaster-jf2a_1_06-23-2026_130712: Yeah
lisa-ellis--she-her-_1_06-23-2026_100711: or like some of those like buzzwords were included, we were looking for those.
But they were so limited in what they would actually catch, and they would misfire more often than not
squadcaster-jf2a_1_06-23-2026_130712: It's-- Yeah, it's, it's, it's fascinating to think about how that, how that works because, like, we see our franchisees and we see others spend a lot of time learning it, and the, the, the way it happens, the magic would happen in an individual. Like, I was talking to someone the other day, and they're like, "I just need one.
I just need two people to really get it, and it would pay for itself." Now, if i-i... And, and that would require you have a committed manager with a committed seller, and those two sell- those two people would make magic happen. Now, if you're a committed manager, and we're making it completely visible to you, like using this technology, [00:17:00] showing you what's happening, what adoption looks like, giving you the tools to practice, you don't-- Your commitment level doesn't have to be so deep.
And that's, I think, will be a benefit for us because now the person who says, "I believe in this, I think it's good, I just don't have the time to make it my priority," will now start reaping the benefits more than they ever have from our methodology
lisa-ellis--she-her-_1_06-23-2026_100711: I think you're, you're spot on there. That's, I think, really the magic. I have had empathy for the frontline sales leader as
squadcaster-jf2a_1_06-23-2026_130712: My career
lisa-ellis--she-her-_1_06-23-2026_100711: career for
squadcaster-jf2a_1_06-23-2026_130712: Yes
lisa-ellis--she-her-_1_06-23-2026_100711: of the things that they are asked to do. Forecast, coach, develop, sell. Like, it-- they have to do so much, and they're in the middle of their organizations. I think that really is one of the hardest jobs out there. so arming them with insights and data to make their jobs easier and make their teams more effective, I'm really excited about what we're bringing to market.
squadcaster-jf2a_1_06-23-2026_130712: you have really-- Like, you launched AI Role Play for [00:18:00] Sandler a year ago. It's had great adoption. It's a huge thing in the market right now. It, it's become more than a product to you, I think that's fair to say. Like, this is something that you're very, very passionate about. Having Varun on last week talking about role play and, and he even talks about your passion and just how much that you've contributed to, like, not just Sandler role plays, but just how role plays work in general.
Like, what was the hook? Like, what got you to the point where you've, you've become almost an acolyte to what this technology can do for training? Like, what-- Was there a moment or has it just kind of evolved over time as you've been continually impressed by like different things continuing to happen?
lisa-ellis--she-her-_1_06-23-2026_100711: I a, an incredibly strong belief in the power of experiential learning. through doing, learning through talking it out loud, learning through trying things even before you're ready. And that came from, um, I was [00:19:00] very fortunate to go to an experiential learning private school, um, in, uh, the Bay Area called The Athenian School, um, uh, for my six through 12 education. This was, uh, an unusual school. Um, we had something called Focus Fridays, where you weren't in your block schedule. All subjects came together and, like, we would figure out how many softballs would fit in the gym, or we would have the Newtonian Olympics and, like, um, it, it was wild,
crazy stuff.
squadcaster-jf2a_1_06-23-2026_130712: You're training to become a consultant to pass the consultant interview
lisa-ellis--she-her-_1_06-23-2026_100711: Yes,
squadcaster-jf2a_1_06-23-2026_130712: Yes, exactly. Yes
lisa-ellis--she-her-_1_06-23-2026_100711: so I know how powerful that is because I have lived it. And then I went and got my master's degree in education, and I saw the challenges with measurement at scale. I looked at my former col- uh, classmates who went to go work for big, um, uh, curriculum providers. I looked at the next generation science standards, all the standardized testing, and I felt that there was just such a huge flaw in the learning experience and the measurement because [00:20:00] people learn through play.
People learn through engagement. And so when I saw the technology come to life and actually be good at it, which I didn't see until about two years ago, it wasn't there. Um, that's what lit the fire, uh, to see all of the different ways that we can actually do this, because learning, you could build engagement, but I believe in the power of learning through play.
It's why I love improv, um, and, and experiential learning. Like, those are the things that, like, you have to be uncomfortable to get comfortable with something. And so you learn through these safe environments, and I think that's what really lit the fire in me is, like I've, I've carried the torch for a long time.
The technology has just finally caught up to what the promise, I think is.
squadcaster-jf2a_1_06-23-2026_130712: Yeah. Now you're kind of like a kid in a candy store now because you're on the front end of like developing, testing, pushing, and you've got a, you've got a provider that understands the value you could add from a what users want [00:21:00] standpoint. So you're seeing the things that you're looking at that could be valuable come to life in the tool in fairly fast iterations, right?
lisa-ellis--she-her-_1_06-23-2026_100711: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, it's the... I'll speak to Yoodli specifically 'cause I'm so familiar with their technology, but how quickly they're shipping features, it's actually a little bit overwhelming to me 'cause I've got to keep up with it. Um, and, uh, and it's really awesome what we're seeing. Like, I saw a sneak preview of some of the stuff that's coming later this summer, and I'm so excited to get it into the hands of our Sandler clients
squadcaster-jf2a_1_06-23-2026_130712: Yeah, it's phenomenal. It's fast and you've got to keep up and keep-- we've got to keep translating that into results for clients. And oh, like, I mean, if you think of where we were a year ago and where things are now, it's just amazing how fast it goes. Yeah. We have to be experts.
lisa-ellis--she-her-_1_06-23-2026_100711: our entire e-learning strategy because of this. Like gone are the days of building Articulate Rise and static, static videos. I really think that that's gonna, gonna be disrupted in a very big way
squadcaster-jf2a_1_06-23-2026_130712: Yeah, for, for sure. For sure. We're already seeing it i- in, in a [00:22:00] microcosm, and it's just gonna get bigger and bigger and bigger let's talk a little bit about you. So you talked about your passion around, around education. Um, did that go when you were a kid? Did you... Were you that kid who wanted to be a teacher, that wanted to be...
Like, what, what was, when you were younger
lisa-ellis--she-her-_1_06-23-2026_100711: Um, so Um, I was, was also very fortunate as a, as a teenager to volunteer and work at the California Academy of Sciences. So I was very
squadcaster-jf2a_1_06-23-2026_130712: Okay
lisa-ellis--she-her-_1_06-23-2026_100711: in science, evolution, marine biology in, in particular. Um, because of my volunteer work and, and paid work there, I got exposure to education, informal science education. Um, and so I kind of saw those things hand in hand because when you go and become an academic biologist, teaching other people is just kind of part of the job.
squadcaster-jf2a_1_06-23-2026_130712: Yeah
lisa-ellis--she-her-_1_06-23-2026_100711: share what you've learned. Um, my pivot [00:23:00] to technology and education really came, um, after, after undergrad because I-- through my, my undergrad I actually changed majors, decided to drop marine bio and went social studies.
So I got my, my bachelor's degree in
global studies. It was. I wanted to understand the world around me. Uh, and so I'll s- I say that my global studies degree qualified me to read The New York Times from cover to cover and understand about 95% of it, so, you know, that was helpful. Um, but I thought I was gonna go into law school, make a, make a big difference, and then, um, I looked at how long it would take me to pay back my student loans and I started, you know, seeing what was on the horizon.
I saw the wave of ed tech coming. Uh, and I found a, a master's program that would allow me to dive into that. And so that's, that's where I decided to go and see what is the leading edge of the interface between how we learn, how we use technology to learn, and how do we [00:24:00] in, in community building through all of that.
So I think that was kind of where, where I wanted to take things. So it's always kind of been there as a thread, but not always my primary focus.
squadcaster-jf2a_1_06-23-2026_130712: I mean, listening to you talk about it, it seems like at some point you realized, I wanna be the-- I, I wanna help people learn rather than be... Like, if, like, that, that you valued the learning that you were getting and wanted to be a part of helping more people learn
lisa-ellis--she-her-_1_06-23-2026_100711: Yeah. And I, I think that's one of the big things is, and that's why, you know, my... I started out at Nova. Um, informal science education is a big one for me 'cause I find science literacy just unlocks so many things for so many people when you understand kind of the basics of the world around you. And then gets way more fun, um, uh, when you start intro- introducing technology into that
squadcaster-jf2a_1_06-23-2026_130712: So one thing, you, you had kind of a windy road going through just finding... And which is really common in US schools, right? Like, that's the way we set it up is so that you don't have to make a decision on where you... Even if you know where you wanna go, [00:25:00] it's set up to allow you to change, and over half of students do.
Coming out of that, what's one piece of advice that you would give to somebody graduating or to yourself based on what you know today and where you are today?
lisa-ellis--she-her-_1_06-23-2026_100711: Um, I'm gonna borrow from one of our leadership principles here at Sandler and say
squadcaster-jf2a_1_06-23-2026_130712: Okay
lisa-ellis--she-her-_1_06-23-2026_100711: the journey matters. That
squadcaster-jf2a_1_06-23-2026_130712: Yeah
lisa-ellis--she-her-_1_06-23-2026_100711: probably the best piece of advice. Like, you are going to make mistakes, make a bad decision, try and recover, figure out what that means for you, and, and a pivot is not necessarily a bad thing.
It can unlock wonderful things for you along the way, and it might be hard, but the journey matters, um, because we're all living the journey every day. Um, so the, the destination is not the goal
squadcaster-jf2a_1_06-23-2026_130712: Okay, so if people want to, to follow you, listen to more about what you have, where should, where should they go?
lisa-ellis--she-her-_1_06-23-2026_100711: Um, I'm guessing LinkedIn is probably the best place to find me. Um, so that's, I, I, I don't have a huge presence yet, but I'm working on, on some stuff here, [00:26:00] so you're gonna see more from me over the summer, um, talking about how we learn and how what Sandler is doing is really changing the game in terms of making the most of your training investment and really driving revenue.
Um, I think that's gonna be really exciting
squadcaster-jf2a_1_06-23-2026_130712: Lisa, thank you very much. It's great having you
lisa-ellis--she-her-_1_06-23-2026_100711: Thanks, Seth
Speaker: And that wraps up another episode. Thank you for joining. For show notes and other episodes, visit us@innovativerevenueleader.ai. The Innovative Revenue Leader is sponsored by Sandler, a Trilia company. Sandler provides top corporate sales and business development training while empowering sales professionals and leaders to master the graph of selling at all levels.