Defining Hospitality

Our guest this week is someone who is committed to elevating communities and creating wealth through hospitality ownership and leadership. Please welcome to the show, Founder of Hospitality Hued, Ashli Johnson!

Ashli sits down with Host Dan Ryan to discuss the ways the hospitality industry can be more accommodating of Black and Brown professionals. Ashli shares her motivations for founding Hospitality Hued, the importance of early professional development, and how to instill a sense of ownership in employees.


Takeaways: 
  • While hospitality is ultimately a business of service, it is rapidly evolving to better address DEI issues across employment, supplier diversity, and leadership. To remain impactful, those in the industry must actively engage in these conversations.
  • Conferences and networking are a crucial part of success in the hospitality industry, yet many Black and Brown leaders find themselves “under conferenced”. To combat this, HUED was created to lower barriers to these opportunities for Black and Brown leaders.
  • Leverage alumni networks to bridge the gap between academic learning and practical career development. Don't overlook the importance of having a strategic approach when pursuing career goals to avoid potential disadvantages and seize growth opportunities.
  • To motivate teams to think like owners, consider actually giving them ownership stakes, as it fundamentally changes their understanding and investment in the business. Implementing an equity share model can drive engagement from general managers.
  • In hospitality, it's crucial to understand how positive guest experiences impact the business's overall success and competitive position. Recognizing the connection between guest satisfaction and business metrics such as rates, market competition, and capital expenditures is essential for professional growth and effective management.
  • Aspiring hotel or restaurant owners should carefully consider their financial and personal responsibilities before pursuing ownership. Instead of direct ownership, roles such as investor or franchisee have lower capital requirements and barriers to entry.
  • Surround yourself with like-minded individuals who want to master the business, and ensure that your leadership is aware of your interests to help you move towards your desired career path.


Quote of the Show:
  • “Your fortune is found in the follow up.” - Ashli Johnson


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Creators & Guests

Host
Dan Ryan
Host of Defining Hospitality

What is Defining Hospitality?

Welcome to Defining Hospitality, the podcast focused on highlighting the most influential figures in the hospitality industry. In each episode we provide 1 on 1, in depth interviews with experts in the industry to learn what hospitality means to them. We feature expert advice on working in the industry, behind the scenes looks at some of your favorite brands, and in depth explorations of unique hospitality projects.

Defining Hospitality is hosted by Founder and CEO of Agency 967, Dan Ryan. With over 30 years of experience in hospitality, Dan brings his expertise and passion to each episode as he delves into the latest trends and challenges facing the industry.

Episodes are released every week on Wednesday mornings.

To listen to episodes, visit https://www.defininghospitality.live/ or subscribe to Defining Hospitality wherever you get your podcasts.

Dan: Today's guest is committed to elevating communities and creating wealth through hospitality ownership and leadership. She's the founder of conference programs, specifically benefiting the underrepresented and underestimated of the hospitality industry including HLT 100. She proudly serves on the boards of organizations such as the National Society of Minorities in Hospitality and NABHUD.

She's also a previous guest and I'm super excited to have her back because she's also the founder of Hospitality Hued, which is an in person gathering. She likes to call it an un conference, which focuses on the Ascension or focuses on Ascension for Black and Brown hospitality leaders, which actually is happening on August 7th and 8th in New Orleans, Louisiana.

So be sure to check that out. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome back Ashley Johnson. Welcome, Ashley.

Ashli Johnson: Greetings and salutations. So good to be here with you, Dan.

Dan: it's great to be here. And I think it's so funny. I just called you to reach out the other day. And because I was in D. C. to see if you were around. And you're like, yeah, I'm doing different things. And I moved to Charlotte. And I'm like, holy shit, I missed the memo. So. I was really excited to hear about what you're doing with Hospitality Hued.

Very excited. Um, and it's also this August, so I suggest that people check it out. But I just, welcome back, and, yeah.

Ashli Johnson: Thank you.

Dan: I guess the first thing I want to ask you, Ashley, is, and it's also embarrassing too, I just want to let everyone know how embarrassing this is, because I also, we saw each other a couple of times between, um, When we spoke last, uh, yesterday and also earlier, I don't know, like at, uh, HD Vegas, and then I think I saw, we saw each other at Alice and probably somewhere else, and this is why you always have to ask people, what are you up to?

Not just, hi, it's great to see you,

Ashli Johnson: Yes. Yes. Well, I mean, the last time I saw you, it was from afar, so I'll let it slide. Yeah. All good.

Dan: Well, I'm so excited for you and, and also for Hospitality Hued, but one thing I wanted to check in with you first, I, you know, I ask everyone how you define hospitality or what hospitality means to you, and So the last time we spoke, when you were guest version 1. 0, um, you were at Howard University, you were setting up the, uh, the Marriott Sorenson School of Hospitality there, um, and really that was one of the most impactful experiences I had at one of our industry events.

So for that. But has your, how do you define hospitality, number one, or has it changed since? your experience there and as you've been on your journey.

Ashli Johnson: Yeah, yeah. So I believe in our previous recording, I would have defined hospitality as the business of service. I mean, it is still a business, one that we all know and love. I do think, um, you know, it has maybe evolved just a bit. Um, And I, would say that evolution has come in part because of sort of this Transitionary definition of how we interact with DEI.

And so I think, you know, hospitality is still trying to really fully get a grip on how we can be the most impactful when it comes to conversations of equity and inclusion. And that is on all fronts. It's not only, you know, an employment, issue. It is a supplier diversity issue. It is, of concern in leadership ranks and ownership ranks.

And so while I think the definition has remained the same, I think, um, how we interact with hospitality, uh, is changing.

Dan: And I, okay, so when I read the intro for Hospitality Hued, it's really,

you know, you're, you're focusing on bringing up or the ascension of black and brown

hospitality, hospitality hues. Not, and not even actually bringing up, but like identifying them, giving them a voice or a platform to speak at, but also inspiring others.

One of the things that have come up numerous times in these conversations is the hospitality industry, especially on the operations side. Um, it's very, very, very diverse, but that diversity tends to be at the lower ends of the org chart. And you are very passionate. about having that having that diversity correlate more to leadership ownership as well because it's not it's not getting the job done so and when I say it I said yeah we're not getting the job done so where what's your thinking on this now like what's what's the dislocation that you're seeing and then aside from just that dislocation which maybe I just said what it is but um

In addition to Hospitality Hude and working with Howard and all the other boards that you serve on, like, I love solutions.

Like, what, what are you seeing out there as far as, are we making progress? What else, what more can we do? And, um, yeah, walk us through it.

Ashli Johnson: Yeah, so I think that hospitality leaders, particularly black and brown hospitality leaders, um, are experiencing a great amount of frustration right now. Um, as you know, most folks that work in hospitality, they've been in the space, uh, for quite some time. Um, and I think, you know, In a lot of instances, people were sort of prescribed a, uh, a path.

If you do A, that gets you B and eventually this will get you to C. Um, and I think a lot of particularly black and brown leaders in the space have followed the prescribed recipe, but it has not yielded the results that they were initially promised. One of the reasons why I started Hospitality Hued is because, uh, over time, Dan, you know, I.

See you at conferences all the time. We are, we are what I would consider to be highly conferenced. One thing that I noticed over the course of my career is that most black and brown leaders are chronically unconferenced. Uh, we don't see a ton of diversity at most of the industry events that we find ourselves in.

And I'm of the belief that because, uh, this particular population of people are so under conferenced, it.

has led to them being under networked. And so um, because, um, these networks that, that black and brown professionals have, of course, built over the course of their career have been helpful, but they have not been, uh, helpful in the ways that is needed for them to actually ascend through the ranks of industry, to your point, reaching executive level leadership roles, uh, and also seeking out opportunities, uh, for equity and ownership and hospitality.

Dan: So One of the things that I'm

surprised by. I feel like every industry right now

is starved for

good people, right? Let's just say starved for people. Unemployment is at historic lows, and starved for good people. But I've said this repeatedly on my podcast, and what I'm hearing you say is making me think maybe I'm just seeing it or saying it incorrectly.

But I believe, especially in the hospitality industry, because Everyone got so stung during COVID that, who were working in it, that they left and might not want to come back or have come back. But I believe, I believe, and this is why I want you to correct me on my belief here, or help me modulate it. I think that if you are working in hospitality and they're so starved for great people, that I think that hospitality from starting at the lower levels to getting up into management and leadership and ownership, I think that there's a very steep career path in hospitality because of the lack of people who left and don't want to come back.

How am I seeing this? How do I need to look at this differently?

Ashli Johnson: So, Dan, you know, I've been known to have unpopular opinions from time to time.

Dan: I love them.

Ashli Johnson: And one of those unpopular opinions, um, and, you know, I'm sure that you've heard this, is that, you know, hospitality needs to do a better PR job when promoting our industry, um, as a viable career, um, to all people and persons. Um, You know, one of the things that we all love to say is that hospitality is the place where you can start out as the dishwasher and you can end up as the CEO.

Uh, and one of my unpopular opinions that I've, you know, stated at this point many times, uh, in meetings and on other platforms is that that notion is not applicable to Black people. Right? Like, there are not, I can maybe think of, of, of one, uh, individual that started in hospitality as a dishwasher and actually ascended up the ranks, not quite a CEO, but, um, into a president role.

Um, that just has not been the career pathway for most people that look like me. That's just the, the honest truth. And to your point, it would make sense, right? That after, um, A global pandemic virtually decimated, um, business for months on end. Uh, lots of people left. I think that that did leave a lot of professionals discouraged and sort of disheartened, um, because so many, uh, again, to your point, where we see the most representation amongst black and brown leaders is that.

in lower level roles, or they are at the property level. And so they were really the first, uh, to be sort of impacted by those furloughs and layoffs, um, and job eliminations. But at the same time, I do, um, see that a lot of these, uh, folks have remained super loyal to hospitality. They've returned to their roles, um, and still are not seeing opportunities To step out of what they're currently doing.

Uh, you know, if I had a dollar or a dime, Dan, for every conversation I have on a weekly basis with someone who's saying, Hey, I've been a GM for 15 years. I obviously have my property down pat. I understand the operations. I can make the numbers jump. I'd really love to step into the next stage in my career.

I'd love to work in a regional, Potentially work in a corporate role and there just is not a pathway to doing something else. And they're, they are finding some friction, I would say, in identifying leaders that are willing to support that elevation to the next level.

Dan: And this is my brain is racing right? now because it's Like, it's infuriating first of all. um, but like if you were to go down to root causes, And

I

know you've

thought about this a lot, and you're doing, and not just thought about it and talked about it, you're, you're actually doing things, and like, you talk about a hospitality network, like, I'm envious of yours, right?

You have really built this incredible network for you, um, and you're also, and I think that's why I think we enjoy each other so much, because I love my network, like, it's amazing, and I feel like we, We love connecting people and helping put them in front of the right people, and almost acting as like a cultural filter from the sense of like, not like culture is from an anthropological point of view, but culture from like, okay, I know who you are, I know who they are, I think you guys would find some common ground.

Um, what do you think is holding, what's holding back that ascension or holding back that ascension? Next step and, and aside from all the things that you're doing to help ameliorate the situation,

like what, what else can be done?

Ashli Johnson: so I do believe that there is a bit of a unspoken, unwritten guideline or rule to the game, right? Um, you know, if we were just basing career progression off of textbook, It means that we go to school, we study, we graduate, we get a job, we stay in that job until someone taps us. And then we move into the next role and then we wait until someone taps us.

And we just sort of, um, uh, you know, we, I think a lot of professionals have sort of, uh, been taught, or they come from the school of thought that, Hey, you just keep your head down, do your job. All will end well for you. But the unspoken piece really is about having, um, access to a network and putting yourself in proximity of power and influence.

And one of the ways that that happens is through conference attendance, right? And so we're talking about root causes. You know, I think, just frankly speaking, a lot of the conferences that we attend are so far out of the price range of most, um, you know, working professionals, right? And, or, um, the roles that they're currently occupying, um, it would be very difficult for them to justify to their companies as to why their company should support them in attending conferences.

These types of events. And so that sort of leads people to, uh, sort of live in their silo and that silo could be the specific team that they work on. Um, because I also, um, from time to time do see folks that are relatively unnetworked, even within their own organizations. Right? Like say, Hey, do you know Joe Schmo or, Hey, you, you ought to talk to Jack when you get back to the office.

It's like, who is that? Or how do I get in contact with that person? Um, but they're, but they're all playing on the same team. And so, you know, there is, if there is a secret sauce, I think that that has a lot to do with it, um, is understanding how to leverage networks to your, to your benefit.

Dan: So, okay, so now

I want to go back to being at Howard

and meeting these

cohorts of kids that were just kids, young men and women who were just going

through these, like the inaugural class, if you would. Of all of them, they were all amazing, like, networkers. They set up, like, just all the things I want my kids to do.

Look someone in the eye, say, act interested, uh, ask questions, get numbers, exchange, follow up, and like, I did that. I did that with them. They did that with me. Are they the exception? Like are, are you seeing those cohorts go on and outperforming on the net, on the network side and on the tap? It sounds like there's just a lot of, not a lot of tapping that's going on or shoulder tapping.

So are they, are you in touch with them? Are they getting shoulder tapped, are from the, from the Howard program or is it, I don't know. I always believe that water waterfalls start with a drop of water. To me, that how our program was like. More than a drop of water. That was like a, a fire hose that was starting.

That would turn into, uh, into a waterfall. But like, are you seeing structural change or is it still, is there still like a hand on the scale that's not helping?

Ashli Johnson: Yeah, So, Dan, I believe that, um, you know, the Marriott Sorensen Scholars are special for so many reasons. Um, but a lot of the things that you touched on, um, those are, you know, those skills are taught, right? Um, and so, You know, I, I don't want to completely remove, uh, the onus from, from an individual professional, right?

Uh, if you want something you do, you are going to, it's going to require some work on your behalf. You are going to have to, you know, get up and get after it and all of those great things. Um, and that's why I often advise folks, you know, Hey, your fortune is found in the fog glove. There literally can be no fortune.

If you're not following up. And so it is crucially important to, I think in, in acknowledging the success of those Marriott Sorenson scholars, that acknowledgement has to start with the deep relationships that were leveraged to build out that program. Uh, And and also you know, again, the prep of it all of preparing those scholars to go out and be great.

And to answer your question, yes. They are, as you probably could imagine, out doing phenomenal things. I've been super excited since graduation was in May, um, seniors are now starting their full time roles, uh, and it has just, uh, tickled me pink, uh, to receive, um, You know, pictures from their desk on their first day at their, you know, first post graduation job and getting updates on, Hey, I've got these super exciting assignments coming up.

And oh my goodness, I took a meeting with my CEO this morning. Um, you know, those aren't normal conversations that you hear typically from recent college graduates. Um, but they were, they were built. To move differently once they got out into the world. And so they're doing that.

Dan: And also

Ashli Johnson: proud of them.

Dan: I don't know if some people would call them soft skills, but I think, it's a hard skill of just, like eye contact. Handshake! Follow up! I love that. Fortune is in the follow

up. So,

Ashli Johnson: Yeah.

Dan: And is that.

this is where I

get like lost. So, okay, so not looking at the, at the Howard grads.

You're looking at, let's just say you take a, a sample of hospitality professionals early in their career.

Do they not have those? hard skills is that there's probably something structural that's putting downward pressure on but then are they also not trained like trained in those hard and soft skills to be able to find the fortune in their follow up and be able to do it properly and are the organizations that you're involved with helping to shift that paradigm?

Ashli Johnson: In too many instances, uh, Dan, the answer is no, they are not operating, uh, with the same level of speed and skill. Um, you know, I, I recently, um, had a young woman reach out to me. She's a recent college graduate and said, hi, I graduated from XYZ, um, university, um, just recently in May and said, um, um, you know, I'm, I don't have a job.

I'm, I'm looking for a full time role. And naturally, and she was put in touch with me. She ran into someone else that I knew and they said, Hey, you should probably give Ashley Johnson a call. And so of course, my first question was, well, what were you doing while you were an undergrad? Where were you interning?

Um, and how is it that you graduated without offers? And she was actually very candid in saying, yeah, I wasn't really paying attention to a lot of that, uh, in undergrad. And, um, you know, I figured that, um, you know, once I graduated, I would just be able to find a job like any other normal person, um, not realizing that part of the education that she was receiving from her university.

Uh, or from that particular hospitality program should have also been rooted in what's, what's reality. What does reality look like post graduation? It's not just about what's in the textbook, but more importantly, how am I leveraging, you know, uh, alumni networks? How am I leveraging on campus, uh, career services, et cetera, et cetera.

And so I certainly see in her, uh, Um, areas of opportunity for her to grow by way of professional development, that because she was not necessarily exercising that muscle in college, um, frankly, it probably will put her at a bit of a, of a disadvantage, um, if she isn't able to pivot, um, very quickly, um, uh, into a role.

And so, um, I think that that's not only applicable for, um, for young professionals, folks that are just coming out of school, but I also think that it is applicable to, um, the millions of people that sort of fell into hospitality. We hear these stories often. I didn't, I wasn't thinking about working in hospitality.

I, I just needed to start serving to make ends meet. And then I look up and it's 20 years later and I'm, I don't know, a restaurant manager or what have you. Um, I think In too many instances, we've been just been so focused on the work that we have ignored, um, the importance of having strategy when pursuing career goals.

Dan: know as you're talking, I'm just like thinking

out loud here. So as you were talking I envisioned two types

of People entering into the the hospitality workforce, right? So

There's the college grad from a hospitality program right that would go into probably some kind of Management starting off management and then there's People would know sometimes high school or college grad, sometimes high school that go in and can be that dishwasher.

Like a college grad probably wouldn't go and start being a dishwasher or a, or rooms attendant. Right. More often than not. But I do think also that, um, so there's kind of two tracks to go in. And I think maybe I was mistaken in the sense that the career path is so steep. I think maybe I need to re rethink that to say.

I think the career path can be so steep for

the people entering the hospitality workforce without a college degree. Maybe they're going in and those entry level

ones, but again, they don't have those hard skill or soft skills to kind of lift themselves up or get onto a career path to management, but it does exist and it is steep.

But maybe I'm thinking of, and then on the, they're also entering that workforce. with no debt on their shoulders either. Right? And then you have someone coming from

college with debt on their shoulders. They have a whole other different ball of wax, like from paying for rent, for paying for their, their college loans.

And it's, and then maybe that becomes into like, you're in survival mode just to like, Make ends meet to where you're just spent and you don't want to go and do the extra networking and all that other stuff. I'm just thinking out loud

Ashli Johnson: Yes.

Yes.

Dan: that?

Ashli Johnson: Oh, Absolutely. Absolutely. I, um, I find that, um, you know, I've come across black and brown, hospitality professionals in particular. Um, and the notion typically is a conference. Like, I can't take time off of work for that. Um, And, and, and of course, you know, the initial thought is this isn't a professional development opportunity when it a thousand percent is right.

Um, I also hear. you know, Um, you know, I'm not really sure what that can do for me. Uh, I've also heard, um, just in my experience with promoting, um, HUDE 2024 is that um, like, Hey, well, let me see if my company will pay for it. Uh, and my question, my follow up question is always immediately. What if they don't, does that mean that you're willing to walk away from,

uh,

investing in your own professional development? So does that

mean if your company is unwilling to make the investment that you will be unwilling to

make the investment? Uh, and so those are very real considerations, uh, for so

many. Uh, black and Brown leaders, um, in our business. And so, um, I I think part of it is sort of rewriting the narrative around how important these things really

are, um, and who ultimately

is responsible, um, for making the

investment here. Uh, and it is, the onus is not always on your employer. That's

just the facts.

Dan: Yeah. And I also, I think like, if you, you know, you, you read all the personal finance books or like pot, like, um, Self improvement books, or like listen to the Tony Robbins's of the world and all that. They all, you know what they all, I think what they all say is invest in yourself first or pay yourself first.

And to me, going to your, to a conference or buying a book or whatever, whatever is investing in yourself. And yeah, it's always great when other people, cover the cost, but you know, your HUDE conference is not exorbitantly expensive. Just give

Ashli Johnson: Intentionally, intentionally so.

Dan: so yeah, I mean.

Ashli Johnson: I did I did not want

um, registration cost or registration fee um, to be a barrier to entry, uh, mostly because I know that that is a huge barrier to entry um, for so many of the events that, that you and I attend on an annual basis.

Um, So yeah, I mean,

it is, it's, it's priced such that um, people can find their way there. And even added a payment plan option, then because the last thing that I want to hear from someone is, Ugh, I really need to be there, but I can't somehow.

We want to eliminate those barriers.

Dan: So another question that I have is thinking about this as HUDE is meant for black and brown hospitality professionals. Is there a fear that you're creating an island? That's not penetrating the downward pressure that I mentioned before, or how, or is this just a convocation of getting these people together to inspire them to then go and put

pressure on what, upward pressure on what's pushing, what they feel is pushing them

down structurally?

Ashli Johnson: Yeah, I would say it's, it's maybe a little bit of both. Um, the reality of it is, is that, you know, um, you know, we, we could say that there is a game at play and one needs to understand the rules of

engagement. Uh, and that's not even necessarily me saying that you need to play by the rules. Uh,

I'm just, a, I'm just a,

champion of folks having a strategy and

understanding, where the

industry is, where your organization is in that industry,

and how can you navigate your way to where

it is that you want to be, um, regardless of the game at play or rules, et cetera, et cetera.

I think it's more about understanding,

uh, the business that we work in, uh, and then identifying where you want to go

and how do I get there.

Dan: So let's do a little another thought experiment then. So let's pretend, let's pretend there is a, I don't know, a young professional, let's say they've been working, they're in a middle, on a path to management, they've been in the in the workforce after college, uh, in hospitality for three or five years, let's say five years, why not, and then they are Either want to go to New Orleans for HUD or they're driving distance, um, and they're, and they've asked their employer to sponsor them to go, but there's no budget for it. And now they're saddled with this, do I invest in myself to go or just take a pass? Let's pretend that they decide to take the invest in themselves route. What? is the goal or what do you foresee as the outcome of their experience at this unconference?

Ashli Johnson: Yeah. So for the person that has been in the industry for, uh, perhaps a shorter clip of time, what they're going to get at Hospitality Hued is, uh, is for starters, if you can see it, you can be it, right? So the amount of C suite level executives and very high ranking black and brown professionals that look like you, maybe came from the same, uh, communities that you've come from, they are actually already in the role.

So I think that that's a huge piece of, oh wow, I didn't even know that someone um, that I can relate to is even in a role that I could potentially ascend to at some point. I think the other key piece is that you are surrounding yourself Uh, with other folks that are like minded by way of, Hey, I want to understand and master this business.

Uh, you know, I always say you need enough information, uh, and understanding to be dangerous out here. Right? Without fully understanding, um, you know, the, the work that we're doing and more importantly, the, the players that really make our industry go round. Um, you are operating. Uh, at a bit of a deficit. And I would also say that it's really important that people understand where it is that you want to go. Um, I, again, I talk to folks, uh, on a daily basis. Um, they say, Hey, you know, I'm, I don't know, working in an accounting role, but I'm really intrigued. by, um, our technology team and I actually studied IT in school.

I'm just not really sure how to, how

to get over there

to

that other team. My first question is always, does your

leadership have any idea of

your, of your interests? Like, no, not really. I wasn't

sure what to say or how to

say it. Or maybe I was so solely focused on making sure that they knew that I was appreciative of the role that I'm currently

in, that I, that they did, they just didn't want

to, you know, shake the boat.

And so I think it's important

to, um, obviously to have a network,

but more importantly, to have a network that knows what it is that you're interested in, um, such that they can rally around you and support you accordingly.

Dan: Okay, and now a lot of the, that's awesome, and then a lot of the talk we've been having now is about, okay, so you're in management, you want to get to that job or be a regional, it might not be there, but you're also really passionate about a path to ownership, right, and I can Pretty, I don't know, I feel pretty comfortable saying that, like, okay, while on the career path, not the ownership of it, but the career path, a diverse, pool of hospitality workers from Ground level to management is very, is, is diverse, right?

But it gets, it gets, there's a choke point getting up into that higher, the higher levels of management. Okay. But it's still there. It's not, it's not good. It's not great. Um, but there is some diversity that goes up there. What I can say on the ownership side is I think it's much worse than that. The ratio, right?

Am I, am I correct in that?

Is there any data to like, give a, paint a picture between both of those different scenarios? Yeah,

Ashli Johnson: I'm aware of, not within the same sort of, report. Uh, there is a need for more data in that area. Um, you know, I, I, I, it's, a common sort of inquiry. Like, hey, how do I, how do I become a hotel owner? Um, and. My pushback to that is always tell me more about why you're interested in owning a hotel.

Um, because I typically like to explore defining, um, uh, the title of being an owner versus the title of being an investor. And so what, um, I think so many folks have not really considered is that, hey, if I am a If I'm even at a director or vice president role, I make X amount of dollars a year, I likely have a family that I need to support, where am I going to go raise the equity necessary to purchase a hotel or a restaurant to become a hotel owner or restaurant owner?

Um, Is it possible? Yes. Um, a much harder lift. Absolutely. Versus, maybe I have, um, I have some resources that are set aside and I very well could identify, um, developers that would, um, provide opportunity for me to invest in a hotel or a restaurant, become a franchisee, something of that nature. Um, that would have a much lower barrier to entry in terms of, of, of how capital intensive it could be. So instead of me trying to figure out where to find 40 million, I can, uh, maybe say, Hey, I can draw from, uh, my 401k and my savings and I can invest. You know, 50, 000, 25, 000, 100, 000, depending upon the deal and the developer and what their appetite is, um, sort of for, um, for engaging, uh, unaccredited investors or maybe even first

time investors.

Um, but what that does is really diversify

your financial portfolio such

that Uh, A, you're, you're in the game. You're receiving, uh, you know, dividends on likely a

quarterly basis. Um, and uh, you know, at the, at the end of a whole period, you know, if we're talking about a

select mid scale, type of property, I mean, I'm,

I'm,

I'm going to see some pretty significant returns when that hotel sells in, in maybe five to seven years.

And let's not even jump into the beauty of, of, you know, capital gains. And so, um, it really

opens. Absolutely. Absolutely.

And it, and it really opens up another

Dan: yeah, the only way that you understand that kind of ownership, I'm putting quote

air quotes, is by actually, Putting some slugs of capital to work And you can do it,

in investing in something as liquid and freely trade it as a REIT and benefit that way. Um, I've also, I know over my career I would, if I was doing furniture for hotels.

Oftentimes to understand, like, that whole idea of getting a 40 million slug, I mean, it's so capital intensive and unrealistic and, like, you need a track record before you can raise that money unless you had, like, a wealthy relative die and leave it to you, which doesn't happen very often.

Um,

The best way to understand how all that works is by getting skin in the game, so to speak. And one of the ways that

I

found over the course of my career is if I was doing furniture for a hotel, Um, I would ask, and more often than not, like 99 out of 100 times the answer is no. But it's like, hey, do you do any friends and family?

Tronches of, uh, that I could write a check and, and put it in this property. I believe, obviously you still have to do the work and believe in the property and the

Ashli Johnson: Sure. Sure.

Dan: that, but

99 out of a hundred times, it's a no, but you know what? Sometimes there's a yes. And those are, those can be really great investments.

And then also there's all these different vehicles from crowdfunding, um, which is even smaller tranches to bigger, and then you just see it. And it's not like you're going to see results right away because they're not liquid. But over the years you get K 1s, you get depreciation you can take, you get income, you get appreciation.

Um, you could also lose everything. But,

Ashli Johnson: Absolutely.

Dan: it's a good way to

Ashli Johnson: is a real

Dan: your, get your toe in there. But I feel like, and the tax code too is just heavily skewed towards, um, towards owners rather than W 2 earners as well. Mmm.

Ashli Johnson: was, was having a conversation, uh, with the CEO of a management company. Um, uh, brilliant guy. And, um, And he said, you know, as, as owners, we're always trying to get our teams to think like owners, right? Like that's a, that's a very, um, like clear message that we give to teams all the time, like, Hey, we need you to have an owner mindset.

Uh, and he said, you know, one day I just woke up and thought, what if I made my GMs owners? It makes all the sense in the world. And he's like, Ashley, the way that they. Understand the business now that I've sat down and sort of walk them through. Hey, as an owner, this is what I'm looking at. This is how you make these numbers play around and dance.

And when we get this right, this is what happens. And Oh, by the way, in addition to your base salary and bonus for whatever your contributions are as a general manager.

I'm also going to give you

5%, uh, a 5 percent equity stake in this property. It's like,

he's like I don't know why I didn't think about

this 20 years ago.

It makes all the difference in the world. And so,

you know, my message

to, um, you know, folks that are already working out in the industry. There are so many ways that you can sort

of have, uh, even for yourself, a

paradigm shift in how you

think

about what your contributions are,

uh, to this industry and more

importantly, what your returns could potentially be.

Dan: Yeah, one of my favorite business books I've ever read is it's called, um, The Great Game of Business by a guy named Jack Stack. And he had some business that was like, um, what did they do? They like re manufactured engines, I think in Indiana somewhere. So like they take old tractor engines or big semi engines and clean them up, re bore them, re tool them, fix them up, and send them out.

I don't know, resell them. Um, but what, what he did is he did this whole open book, um, system in this manufacturing business and where every department It was all open book. So every department had their own P& L and balance sheet and they knew their one to five numbers that their actions, their efficiency, um, their attention to detail and quality, how if they performed over sort of about how it would benefit not just them, but the company and then also their department and their team.

And it really gets everyone looking at everything much differently to look at it as an owner. And it's a, it's a, it's a difficult thing as a business owner to kind of open the kimono, so to speak. But if you do it, and sometimes it doesn't, sometimes if you do it the wrong way, it can backfire and not be good.

But if you do it the right way, you can really get everyone aligned and understanding it. And you have to teach like principles of accounting as well.

Ashli Johnson: absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. And, and, and that's a lot of what I'm referring to when I use the phrase the business of service. Uh, that's why those Marriott Swanson scholars, it was so important for me to ensure that they understood how the business aspect of hospitality works. I can remember a time in my career, all I really understood about hospitality was, hey, I need to be acknowledging a guest as they are approaching me.

I need to make sure that I'm creating these phenomenal memories, but I really had no frame of reference. in terms of what does this mean for the business that I'm working in, right? I was literally thinking, um, you know, my,

uh, my scope of comprehension at the

time, being very young in the business

was like, Hey, I got to get

my guest satisfaction scores high

and All I knew is that that meant that I was not going to be in trouble or under scrutiny by my

manager. There was no correlation

between what does guest satisfaction mean

for

rates? What, what do these rates mean for the hotel? How does that help us compete

in this market? How does that, um, how does that, uh, influence, um, You know, how friendly our next visit from our asset manager is going to be.

Like, how

does that

influence what capital expenditures

are?

Dan: How much does that lower your customer acquisition costs too? And then that, you know, that's less marketing and you get them, you build a relationship with them and then you, they start, I don't, I don't even know that much about hotel operations, but like you get them to start booking on the hotels website directly and not through

Ashli Johnson: nurses are Third party.

Dan: Third party, like it's, it's, it's amazing.

And you get them right, write them. Thank you notes. They're going to keep coming back. You're going to, and it's all going to drop to the bottom line. But I think, wow, that's really

interesting. So bringing it back to hospitality, Hugh,

if I'm, I've been in the business, in my business, on my career path for five years, or I'm a higher level manager or owner or, um,

investor.

So aside from just like the, like, the tools and the network and the investing in yourself that you'll have. Light us up with who you have going there because it's actually pretty awesome. Like, I, I wasn't planning on going, um, and now I'm trying to see if I can move some things around to get

there because New Orleans is also just freaking awesome.

But like,

you have a

Ashli Johnson: it's an

Dan: group of people going there.

Ashli Johnson: Yeah, yeah, we have a super exciting lineup of speakers. Uh, I probably, we probably don't have time to highlight them all. Uh, but, uh, some folks that I will sort of extract to elevate for today's conversation. Um, would certainly include John Farid, who is the

global

chairman of Horvath HTL. It's the largest, uh, hospitality consulting firm in the world. Um, John, uh, also recently wrote a book entitled, uh, From Invisible to Icon, uh, which I think

resonates so much with our audience, uh, about

how

Dan: he sounds like podcast.

Ashli Johnson: I think so too. Yeah,

I mean, John, uh, in in, in his book is really walking folks through how to establish yourself as an expert in your field.

And isn't that what's required to get us to the next level? I'd say so. Um, We have a really dynamic husband and wife team out of Atlanta, Georgia, Julian and Kirsten Saunders. They

are the creators of a platform called Rich and

Regular,

all about personal finance. They both come from the hospitality industry

and will share more about

how

they were both able to retire

before 40,

which I think is

Dan: fire, That's

Ashli Johnson: Yeah.

Dan: right?

Ashli Johnson: Yeah. Yeah.

Dan: Uh, they, I bet you also they would

say invest in yourself.

Ashli Johnson: Uh, a hundred percent.

Dan: They probably will have t shirts that say invest in yourself. Yeah.

Or a sign, at

least.

Ashli Johnson: exactly. Exactly. And they, uh, yeah, they are, um, yeah, they're, they're also, uh, authors and, and, uh, and have a book out, uh, called Cashing Out. Uh, we have so many other phenomenal industry leaders, uh, folks like Thomas Penny, president of Donahoe Hospitality Services, Donahoe Hospitality Services.

We've got the rock stars of the group, folks

like Damon Lawrence from Holland Hospitality, folks like Jason Bass. Um,

uh, you know, a few years ago, Jason won an award, uh, that, uh, bestowed upon him the title of an icon of culture. Uh, I told him I

will never, ever let him live that down.

Uh,

Dan: That was through Independent Lodging Congress, right, I think?

That's a, we were there at the same time, but didn't know each other and didn't

talk to each other, so.

But

Ashli Johnson: damn, what a shame.

Yeah, yeah, he's a cool guy. Uh, so yeah, Jason will be there. Um, uh, Kendra Plummer, uh, who is the founder, uh, of E Lease Capital, um, is a phenomenal

example of how to transition, uh, from a

more traditional trajectory in hospitality, uh, to becoming a hotel developer and hotel owner. All right. Uh, and so there's just so many great people.

Bashar Wali is coming, uh, and we'll speak, uh, founder of

Practice

Hospitality. So, uh,

so

Dan: I'm definitely not going, if he's going Bashar, are you picking

that up?

Ashli Johnson: so many phenomenal folks. Uh, Lauren Darnell, uh, executive director of the Maida New Orleans Foundation. Uh, we've

got all kinds

of folks, uh,

Dan: And I, just also want you, I, I, I've never been to hospitality Hu.

Um, but I can tell everyone who's listening and

maybe considering just knowing you and knowing the people that are there. It's not gonna be like you're sitting in chairs and

they're up on a podium. You are going to be able, there's going to be some time to mash up and talk

and get to know people and build relationships.

I'm going, I know there's going to

be, so I, that sounds awesome. I need to

Ashli Johnson: I'd have it no other way.

As you know, Dan, uh, you know, the,

the, we were very intentional about,

you know, creating a space in which, uh, it was not overwhelming. Uh, so there's not going to be 500 or 2,

500 people in attendance. Uh, the space was really, uh, created. Such that it is a, a safe space, uh, for audience to engage speakers, uh, in conversation, uh, for you to be able to really get to know your neighbor and

essentially leave, um, this

unconference, uh, really with a bag of, of, of gems, uh, and, and fortune because we trust all folks will be following up.

And, you know, really just

it growing, uh,

your network, right?

Strengthening it.

Dan: just as You all know, You do not need to

be black or brown solely to go. It is welcome to everyone, but the whole point

is to talk about ascension and

like all these other

things that we were talking about to like how to

just help get that distribution of people working in hospitality on the lower

side on the in the lower parts of the org chart to that

rep that

ratio to equal the

upper parts and really to me

I think it's just, it's so much of it is about making

space for others and

just like thinking about that, you know, having those, the kids who come out of the Howard

program, like you're, you're saying

kids, I keep saying kids, but they are kids because I'm old now and I can say kids.

All right. So I apologize to

all of you,

but like, let me be

the old guy.

So yes,

they're so awesome. Uh,

But it's really just, they, they had the, they were, they were taught and trained the soft skills and the hard skills to, to get people to want to tap them on the shoulder. Right.

And I just think that it's so much of it is about making space and not just that, but also just, you don't even have to be an official mentor.

It's just like, Hey, How can I help? Where do you want to go? All those questions like, oh you want to own a hotel? Well, why? Just asking why? Sometimes people don't even, and I'm guilty of it too, I don't consider the why very much in everything I'm doing. It's really important to me to understand it. I've learned that with age because I don't want to do things if it doesn't line up with my why.

But, you know, that took

30, 40 years, 50, I'm almost 50, but

don't

tell anyone.

But anyway, it's like.

Ashli Johnson: Don't look a day

over

Dan: Yeah, it's my locks, my curly hair that my kids

love, so. Um, I don't know, it's uh, I'm just really excited for you and I, and talking about purpose and passion and just, you're basically, you've never waited for anything, you've always grabbed the bull by the horn, so to speak,

but it's just like now, in everything that you do, I just love and I'm, I'm just really envious that you're able to just Come up with these ideas and do them.

So I applaud you for that

and

everyone It's fine. It's like everyone can have the idea and I I'm

actually pretty good at this too But like you it's one thing to have an idea and to talk about it but then it's about finding that pathway to like Take that step to actually make it real like you can plot everything out on paper and make a spreadsheet and blah blah blah But you actually have to do it and fit and failing is okay, too but it's like being able to take that step and make it real and bring people together

and like Shorten your own and other people's journeys.

It's like it's admirable. So I just want More people like you out there actually creating these great things because you're also inspiring and

like with this podcast and just other events that I'm working on, I feel like this podcast and the community that we built, like,

I just feel like there's a step of something in person at some point.

So one of the main reasons I want to go aside from like seeing you and, and, um, get gaining from all the content and helping

shorten other's journeys is like, I want to be able to. Rip off and duplicate what you have going on because I don't know if it's gonna if it's an Unconference or just a bunch of dinners or so But I feel like this whole community that we've built here and you're a part of it a strong part of

it There just needs to be more touch points So I just I want to be inspired to think about what that is and find it find a path because I'm in the marination Stage and I just really want to start thinking about like what is

that path for in person?

Ashli Johnson: yeah. Let's make it happen, Dan. Yeah, I mean the, touch point

is crucially important, uh, to get people to share space, uh, and So,

you know, I've

been telling folks as it relates to, to, to H. E. W. 2024, the table has been built, right? Just pull up a chair.

Let's

get to

Dan: Oh Yeah,

and it's at the Four Seasons too, everyone.

It's like, it's it's not at the, uh, the Crown, the

roadside in Crown Plaza, right? It's like, it,

it's gonna be awesome. So, um, well, this has been awesome

for me and incredible for

me If people wanted

to learn more about

you or Hugh,

like, what's a good way for them to get in touch?

Ashli Johnson: Yeah, definitely visit our website. It's hospitalityhued, H U E D dot com. They can follow us on Instagram if that's your thing. We're on thegram at hospitalityhued. you can

also find us on LinkedIn. Find

me on

LinkedIn. So,

yeah, would love to have

you all

there. I'm

looking

Dan: I appreciate you.

so much and thanks for, thanks for coming

back. It's always nice when people

come back or want to come back. Yeah.

Ashli Johnson: Thanks for having me. Thanks for having me. It's such an awesome platform, and as always, absolutely love

the work that

you're

Dan: And right back at you. And, uh, I think we're a good team. So,

thank you. Uh, and also I'd be remiss without thanking our listeners. Without all of

you.

um, We wouldn't be here talking to Ashley because we just grow by word of mouth and organically. Yeah,

maybe I promoted a little bit on LinkedIn, but I

don't pay for the ads. Not yet anyway. So, but please, if you're in New Orleans or you're there in August or you want to

go, you want to check this out,

um, go because I know it's going to be

awesome. thank you.

everyone.