Ep 013: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly

This episode is EVERYTHING you guys.
Releasing Episode 13 on the 13th - What whaaaaaaaat?!  We did not plan that....
Seriously.  The Good, The Bad and The Ugly is raw and real and no BS and I think we are finding a real groove here.  We talk about toxic positivity, why is serves NO ONE, how it bleeds into the parenting community, covid, emotional intelligence AND - you'll learn my one and only hard and fast rule for life.
Stick with us in this extra long episode - the epiphanies don't stop. 

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Happy Parenting and Good Luck Out There!

Creators & Guests

Host

Jennifer Hayes

Host

Rick Hayes

NL

Editor

Natalie Long

What is The Relational Parenting Podcast?

Welcome to the Relational Parenting Podcast! I’m Jennifer Hayes – a Parent Coach and 20 year Childcare Veteran. Each week I sit down with my own father (and cohost), Rick Hayes, and discuss the complicated issues that parents face today, as well as some of the oldest questions in the book. From the latest research and the framework of my Relational Parenting Method, we offer thought-provoking solutions to your deepest parenting struggles.
Relational Parenting is an evidence and experience based parenting method created by me - Jennie. After 20 years in the child care world, in every scenario you could possibly imagine, I realized one thing: EVERYONE was prioritizing the behavior and performance of a child over their emotional well-being. This frustrated me to no end and when I re-visited the latest research, I realized there was a better way. I started applying the principles I'd been learning in my own self-work, parent-child relationships, and partnerships, and I started gobbling up all the new research and books I could get my hands on. When I saw the results of putting these practices into play with the children I was taking care of - the difference in myself AND the kids I worked with was ASTOUNDING.
I am SO PROUD to be presenting Relational Parenting to the world. I can't wait to hear about your own journey. From Parents-to-be to the seasoned parenting veteran - there's something here for everyone!

Papa Rick (00:00.730)
talking about how we're kind of, uh, Oh, Oh, I better. Okay. I better be careful. Okay. Yeah. So Jonathan hate, I saw, I think it was a YouTube short about how we're kind of raising fragile people, homeschooling, not homeschooling, schooling over the video, not going to school, not learning to deal with people who mess with you on the

Jennifer Hayes (00:00.848)
I'm gonna record.

Jennifer Hayes (00:07.015)
So I'll just keep talking.

Papa Rick (00:30.690)
get your share, you know, all the isolation is not helping kids, making you a little bit tougher about not feeling bad about bad things that happen to you. I don't know. Yeah, I agree. You got to be able to deal with the negative. Resilience is what the thing was about, what the post was about. Building.

Jennifer Hayes (00:54.368)
resilience and there's a way to homeschool without being cut off from society. And there's a way to do these things that's not one extreme or the other. And I agree with that. Something that I, talking about that post, was that I noticed that it was like when people

Papa Rick (01:04.570)
And that was an unfortunate. Yeah, I was. Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:26.468)
When people see a side of someone that isn't the pretty part.

Papa Rick (01:32.434)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:35.677)
I think that's it on the nose.

Jennifer Hayes (01:37.768)
the side of somebody that's raw and real and like everyone's like, oh, be yourself on like be authentic online and.

Papa Rick (01:44.450)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (01:50.468)
But there's so many people are incapable of handling the reality of anything other than toxic positivity online and being like I see posts that are, I'm going through a hard time right now, but I'm not going to let it get me down. And I'm always just keep putting one foot in front of the other and this and that and the other. And it's like, yes, that's great. That's a good mindset.

Papa Rick (02:01.750)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Jennifer Hayes (02:20.408)
going to knock you the fuck out. And you need to be like, the world needs to be capable of handling that reality. And when you shame someone or react like judgmentally like, whoa, like she's airing her dirty laundry, or whatever it might be to someone who's sharing like the awful parts of their life.

Papa Rick (02:22.650)
Yep.

Papa Rick (02:47.350)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (02:50.468)
dare you? Like, like when you are at your lowest point and you share it with your partner or your parents or your friends or whatever, and then you sweep it under the rug and go about your life as if nothing happened, that is what makes everybody feel like they are crazy when those things happen to them because nobody fucking talks about it. Nobody fucking talks about it. Nobody posts about it. Or when people post about it, they get backlash

Papa Rick (02:51.992)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (03:14.192)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (03:20.408)
follow them or love them or knew them once upon a time in high school or whatever it might be. And you like, everyone's like social media is so great because you can stay connected and or you have an online community. And I like

Papa Rick (03:24.370)
connected in some way. Yeah.

Papa Rick (03:33.550)
Hehehehe

Jennifer Hayes (03:43.709)
They're just that I just get so.

Jennifer Hayes (03:50.068)
It's part of what I'm trying to do with relational parenting is teach people how to integrate the dark side of life, the hard stuff, the ugly, the really ugly shit, the really hard, the really shitty emotions, the crying on the bathroom floor or in the closet or your room of choice.

Papa Rick (04:00.780)
All of it.

Papa Rick (04:06.010)
the Gestalt of Ice.

Papa Rick (04:16.790)
Yeah. That's fine.

Jennifer Hayes (04:19.848)
My breakdowns used to happen in a specific corner of my bedroom and my several houses ago, and then they used to happen in the bathroom, and now I have a walk-in closet, so now they happen in the closet.

Papa Rick (04:32.790)
Is this, are they smaller? What do they have? I don't want to derail you. What do they have in common? Your room choice. Is it smallness or?

Jennifer Hayes (04:42.068)
Uh, I don't know why my bedroom, I think the bathroom tends to be where people go for privacy anyway. And so if you live with other people going to the bathroom is like your option. Like I know like your bedroom might also be an option. Um, but I think yeah, a smaller space with unlimited access to tissues and perhaps a toilet to throw up in might be what it is.

Papa Rick (04:44.090)
a ley line, you know, some kind of energy or something. I wonder.

Papa Rick (04:50.955)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (04:54.870)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (05:07.285)
There you go.

Papa Rick (05:10.991)
Just curious.

Jennifer Hayes (05:12.208)
like, it's like the most secluded part of room in the house. It's also through, you have to go through my bathroom to get to my closet. So.

Papa Rick (05:19.776)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (05:26.412)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (05:27.708)
others.

Jennifer Hayes (05:31.170)
Yeah, I don't know, it's just...

Papa Rick (05:32.153)
It feels safe or isolated or yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (05:34.788)
Yeah, I can, it like, it's dark. There's no windows or anything. I can just turn the light off, close the door and just kind of like fall apart. But this whole conversation, I started recording our pre-chat and our whatever this is gonna be today because I just wanted to capture whatever we capture and just see where the world takes us because, but I started recording just in case we keep this part, I wanna explain to people,

Papa Rick (05:40.550)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (05:43.250)
Yeah. Yeah.

Papa Rick (05:52.994)
Hmm.

Papa Rick (05:59.235)
Okay.

Jennifer Hayes (06:04.768)
started recording this piece of our conversation and I was talking about a post that I made a few days ago, a couple days ago, that was basically a rant about my experience with COVID over the last two weeks. And it being my second round of COVID, I had COVID last

Papa Rick (06:19.550)
Okay.

Papa Rick (06:32.873)
about a year.

Jennifer Hayes (06:35.169)
and then just had my second round with it both times it was

Jennifer Hayes (06:42.348)
Like I did, I have never been blessed with the cold version of COVID. I have gotten the, we might have to go to the hospital version of COVID. And I have not to my knowledge met anyone else in my close life, my close friends and family who have had that reaction to COVID. Everyone has always been sick for a couple of days and then gotten over it.

Papa Rick (06:53.421)
Mm.

Jennifer Hayes (07:12.448)
as I have been laid up in bed for nine days and like can't feed myself. And

Papa Rick (07:19.050)
Oh my God, you're vaccinated and everything, right? That's part, you know, you guys got vaccinated. So that's weird. So you, so now I wish they could poke you and figure out what variant you've got without a million dollars worth of tests. You know, I hear there are more variants, you know, places that aren't vaccinated. It's circulating and mutating and growing. And I hear some of a couple of them coming out of China are really bad. And you're in a

Jennifer Hayes (07:26.688)
Yeah. So.

Jennifer Hayes (07:33.629)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (07:49.430)
a place where a lot more, you know, I'm in the middle of a cornfield, but you're out where millions of people live, and so you're near a big airport. I wonder if you're catching something more interesting than we catch around here in the hinterlands.

Jennifer Hayes (08:05.408)
Maybe. So I work at home and I.

Papa Rick (08:07.850)
Thanks for watching!

Jennifer Hayes (08:11.208)
I'm not out in public very often, but Lewis works in the ICU. And so we think that he brought it home from work. And when everybody has it over the last month or two, so many of his coworkers have been out with it, even with masks and protective gear and all of that. So who knows?

Papa Rick (08:13.331)
Yeah. Yeah.

Papa Rick (08:22.070)
Boy, hospital's the place to go to find a disease, apparently, these days. MRSA and...

Papa Rick (08:31.710)
Yeah. Yeah. No. You can't hide from it.

Jennifer Hayes (08:41.749)
that's actually, we do know because that's the only place I could have gotten it from.

Papa Rick (08:46.450)
I was, yeah, that's, well, the most likely anyway. I mean, you could have gotten it from an alien, but.

Jennifer Hayes (08:50.548)
No, I literally have not been, I haven't been in contact with anyone else in the timeframe that it could have symptomatized, that's a word.

Papa Rick (08:55.093)
Oh really?

Papa Rick (08:58.550)
where it started.

Papa Rick (09:03.712)
I'll take that as a word.

Jennifer Hayes (09:06.769)
Uh, cause mom and Steve were here, they left and then, and they never had it. And then Lewis went to work for two days and then three days later we had COVID. We were.

Papa Rick (09:20.150)
Well, the fact that they, that mom and Steve were not symptomatic doesn't mean they didn't, it didn't fall off of one of their suitcases in the house. Right. But, but yeah, but likelihood, you know, you probably didn't get it off of toilet seat and doorknobs and stuff. But who knows? Who knows is all I'm saying.

Jennifer Hayes (09:31.392)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (09:35.629)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (09:40.608)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (09:44.748)
So anyway, so I made that post and it was a post. It's the only post I've made in the last two weeks. I haven't posted about the podcast or anything. And I had just...

Papa Rick (09:57.290)
And it's about the only one I've looked at in two weeks. I just look at them once in a while. So.

Jennifer Hayes (10:02.071)
I had just been...

Jennifer Hayes (10:06.008)
sitting with so much frustration and feeling like just like negative thoughts really took over and this happened last time I had COVID too. And

Papa Rick (10:10.131)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (10:27.129)
It's like you fall into this, like that in-between,

Papa Rick (10:32.250)
Mm-hmm. That's it.

Papa Rick (10:37.550)
Thank you.

Jennifer Hayes (10:39.888)
before you fall asleep at night.

Papa Rick (10:40.294)
Hmm.

Papa Rick (10:42.870)
Hang on a second, Judy's back from the Easter party. What sweetie? Uh, yeah. Yeah. All right. Sorry. All right. Everybody have a good time. All right. I got two eggs and two prizes. Two prizes. All right. I went, but I came home early. So get ready for this.

Jennifer Hayes (10:57.508)
Did you not go? You didn't go to the Easter party?

Jennifer Hayes (11:03.908)
Oh, well we could have postponed. Sorry.

Papa Rick (11:05.830)
We would have not, I didn't, I didn't really want to. It's a thousand family members of another family kind of thing. You know, I sat to chat with the people, but it was, it was hubbub. And I'm just not in the mood for hubbub. So I'm sorry, go ahead, go ahead with, uh, you know, you'd, you were kind of venting. You made this post. Apparently you did not.

Jennifer Hayes (11:13.872)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (11:25.288)
Yeah, so I made this, most of my posts are the podcast or the business or like my dogs, you know, and pretty soon it's going to start being my seedlings in my garden that we're building this year. But I don't, I'm not typically like a talk about my problems on the internet kind of person.

Papa Rick (11:34.792)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (11:40.850)
Cool.

Jennifer Hayes (11:55.288)
so sick and got so down and was in this like zombie state and in my brain and it's like

Papa Rick (12:02.650)
Thanks for watching!

Jennifer Hayes (12:06.988)
One, I had to cancel the first group coaching program that I was putting together. So that was, you know, as any entrepreneur knows, how hard it is to get a business off the ground and get things going and build momentum and get a schedule and like all the things. And I was really getting momentum and visibility and had put all these really like complicated things

Papa Rick (12:22.650)
That is upsetting. Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (12:36.708)
order to create a funnel to bring people in and, you know, watch an informational video on the program, et cetera. And there was a lot, I mean, hours and weeks of work went into this and I was just starting to sell it and to successfully and it was supposed to begin April 2nd and all the information that I had created said April 2nd. So it's not like I can just go like be like, I'm just going to change it.

Papa Rick (12:49.150)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (13:06.748)
because that would take hours of going in and changing everything I had created.

Papa Rick (13:14.590)
Could you post a stub and say, hey, this is, uh, yeah, I know. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

Jennifer Hayes (13:18.048)
So we're not problem solving this right now. Let me finish. So if there was a way to do it easily, I would have. So there wasn't, so I was sick and there was no way to like edit all of the things because I was dead. I was dying in my bed. And so all selling stopped, all promoting, all posting, all emails, like everything just stopped.

Papa Rick (13:34.990)
Yeah, because you're sick. Yeah. Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (13:48.328)
And like I was in bed, I was feverish, I was in pain, I had COVID gives me shooting nerve pain. So here are some things that COVID does to my body. Both times that I've had it, I got shooting nerve pain randomly all over my body. No one can explain it.

Papa Rick (13:59.471)
Weird.

Papa Rick (14:10.071)
the limb limbs. Wow. Okay. Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (14:13.608)
So shooting different spots all over my body, nowhere is it like focused or centralized. Like I would get it like just everywhere all day, all over my body, like just every two and a half seconds there would just be shooting pains firing through my body. Like at one point the second day, I literally could barely get out of bed because it hurt the bottom of my feet to walk.

Papa Rick (14:26.290)
pain nerves firing.

Papa Rick (14:39.590)
Wow, that sounds like pain clinic thing. I don't know how, yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (14:43.128)
So, shooting nerve pains, nauseous, nothing sounds good or tastes good to eat except strawberry ice cream. That's it.

Jennifer Hayes (14:55.776)
Um.

Jennifer Hayes (14:58.968)
fucking like walking, walking to the bathroom, getting out of breath, just like sitting up.

Papa Rick (15:10.350)
peak.

Jennifer Hayes (15:11.588)
Yeah, like just insane levels of fatigue and malfunction. And then you're like, all right, maybe this will last a day. Maybe it'll last two days. Maybe it'll last three days. Maybe it'll last five days. And it's just like pain management and trying to do anything that relieves pain just to survive. And I would pick up my phone and send an email

Papa Rick (15:34.410)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (15:41.408)
or whoever I had whatever set up with that day, just to be like, I'm sorry, I have to cancel. I'll reach out to you to reschedule. So then there's like this like guilt and anxiety of like not showing up and like, there's no one else running my business. There's no one else doing anything. Like I am, it's me, it's me, myself and I. And so it's just like day after day in pain, unable to eat and canceling everything

Papa Rick (15:48.790)
can't think straight.

Papa Rick (15:56.350)
Yeah. Yeah.

Papa Rick (16:00.816)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (16:12.249)
potential and every single day getting closer to this date of my first program launch that I can't launch and

Papa Rick (16:22.771)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (16:26.108)
So after five days, my mental health starts to...

Jennifer Hayes (16:31.790)
And it's like literally anxiety, I forget. I think it was.

Jennifer Hayes (16:40.688)
Lewis got it. He went back to work.

Jennifer Hayes (16:45.548)
seven days later.

Papa Rick (16:47.850)
took him a week, a solid week. Last time we talked, you were like getting over it and he had just, he had gotten worse. Not getting over it, you were feeling better at that time. So it kind of flip-flopped on you.

Jennifer Hayes (16:50.931)
So.

Jennifer Hayes (17:02.808)
We both kind of had like the last like week of it. It was like we would feel good one day and then for two days we would be back down. It was like, and I was actually reading a couple of research articles about it. It was like post, they're calling it post activity fatigue syndrome or something, PAFS. Don't quote me on that. I don't know if that's accurate, but it's a long haul COVID symptom of people being like, oh, I feel better today. I'm gonna get some things done

Papa Rick (17:07.692)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (17:10.260)
Oh.

Papa Rick (17:20.150)
Hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (17:32.828)
fog has lifted today, I'm going to do some stuff. And then the next day they wake up and can and it's like all their symptoms came back because they pushed themselves a little bit the day before.

Papa Rick (17:35.950)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (17:44.790)
Yeah, didn't have that reserve at all. Huh.

Jennifer Hayes (17:48.768)
and then they're sick for three or four days. So that kept happening. So anyway, Louis went back to work seven days after the required quarantine time. And I had, without him in the house as some kind of distraction or comfort, because he was sick

Jennifer Hayes (18:18.568)
it very clear how bad it had gotten. And I just...

Jennifer Hayes (18:28.554)
I literally just like...

Jennifer Hayes (18:32.428)
I wanted, and I put this in the post, I wanted to crawl out of my skin. Like I wanted to like get out of my, I wanted to detach from my own body. I was so uncomfortable and lost and didn't know what to do with myself. I was too sick to do anything, but I was just laying there thinking about all the things I wanted to do with my business, all the things that needed to get done,

Papa Rick (18:46.294)
Mm-hmm

Jennifer Hayes (19:02.428)
like how I had lost this group coaching program. And the other piece of the group coaching program is I can't just like bump it out a couple of weeks because we're going on our honeymoon in June. So I made it an eight week program, designed it, designed all the stuff around it. This was the start date. This was the length. And I can't just bump it. I can't

Papa Rick (19:16.433)
Hmm

Papa Rick (19:21.114)
Hmm.

Papa Rick (19:23.591)
Hmm

Papa Rick (19:27.971)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (19:32.548)
intermission, like people lose interest, people stop showing up, people like, people get busy or, you know, whatever. So it's, it's just not that simple. And

Papa Rick (19:37.313)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (19:45.028)
So losing that program really at like this like peak moment where I felt like I was starting to climb over the top of the mountain for once as a baby entrepreneur.

Papa Rick (19:57.330)
Yeah. The first time, the first time.

Jennifer Hayes (20:01.408)
Right. And just like, it's like I just free-falled back down the mountain and it was just laying at the bottom unable to move for two weeks. And...

Papa Rick (20:03.021)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (20:12.490)
Sorry. Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (20:17.448)
like physically, physiologically unable to do anything about it. And that just really.

Jennifer Hayes (20:27.629)
really fucked my head up.

Jennifer Hayes (20:35.031)
And I'm...

Papa Rick (20:38.050)
I was disappointing. It sounds some of what you were saying. It sounds a little bit like, uh, someone who was being tortured or saying, you know, wanting to get out of your skin. I, you know, I'm, I'm physically uncomfortable. I'm mentally uncomfortable and I can't do anything about it. And, you know, God let me out of this situation kind of thing or something.

Jennifer Hayes (20:56.748)
Yeah, and there's, and it did this to me last, it did this last year too. I was sick for so long and so like incapable of doing anything for myself, like barely able to feed my dogs in the morning and in the night, you know. Like you, like you, I became so frail

Papa Rick (21:25.670)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (21:28.416)
and it wasn't just like a day or something it was like

Papa Rick (21:38.850)
Yeah, for when you don't know when it's going to end.

Jennifer Hayes (21:42.490)
and you don't know when it's going to end and you pay. You know, last time we finally called an IV service to come get me an IV.

Papa Rick (21:52.394)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (21:56.308)
to help me hydrate and get a bunch of vitamins and recover. And like, I'm someone who I take regular immune supporting vitamins and minerals. And I take supplements on a daily basis. And I take.

Jennifer Hayes (22:12.608)
Like I'm a generally very healthy person. I'm very in tune, yeah, with my body and...

Papa Rick (22:15.510)
You got all that. Yeah. Available.

Jennifer Hayes (22:23.488)
So we were doing everything, my husband is an ICU nurse, like we were doing everything we could do at home to get better and pain management, you know, and I don't like taking pills, but it was like non-negotiable, like it was non-negotiable. And...

Papa Rick (22:27.850)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (22:31.150)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (22:41.010)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (22:46.868)
Like I ended up taking a Xanax once to just, and I hate like I don't, I don't take pills like that. And.

Papa Rick (22:54.797)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (22:57.808)
I just needed to sleep. And so anyway, to feel.

Papa Rick (23:00.772)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (23:05.468)
to feel beaten down, to feel incapable of taking care of myself after being at such a high place of like, I'm finally launching this program that I've been dreaming of and trying to put together for several years and then doing all the work to set it up and run the funnels.

Jennifer Hayes (23:36.148)
knowledge together to do it and having people reaching out to me interested and all of that felt so amazing and good. And then it just crashed and fucking burned. And I posted that post on the internet where it's mostly just friends and family on my Instagram and Facebook.

Jennifer Hayes (24:05.488)
followers or anything yet. And a lot of the responses, you know, were thoughts and prayers and hugs and sending you love and all those things. But there are several comments and messages I got that were like, oh, hope you get better soon or better is on the way. And I get like, there's, I don't know, I don't believe that there's any ill will behind positive

Papa Rick (24:07.576)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (24:35.488)
that but it made me...

Jennifer Hayes (24:41.008)
It reminded me of a part of like what I'm doing with my business and that.

Jennifer Hayes (24:53.048)
There's, there is even in adulthood with people who care about you, there's this reaction to negativity. There's this reaction to negative emotion, to, to real raw authenticity where my anger.

Papa Rick (25:03.056)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (25:09.408)
my anger, my anxiety, my frustration with this, this uncontrollable situation. Like I, I've done fucking mindset work for 10 fucking years. I know, I know you have to let go. I know you have to surrender. I know that there are better days ahead. I know that this too shall pass. I know. I know.

Papa Rick (25:30.447)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (25:30.908)
I know. And I will make another post someday about the light, you know, sunlight shining and everything being fucking peachy and the birds are singing. But that day I had been sitting for two weeks.

Papa Rick (25:38.892)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (25:44.808)
imprisoned in my own mind.

Papa Rick (25:47.413)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (25:49.488)
And I just had to get it out. And I just had to put it out there.

Papa Rick (25:52.292)
Yep.

Jennifer Hayes (25:59.551)
And this is what we do to our kids, this is what we do to our family members, this is what we do to our partners.

Jennifer Hayes (26:08.248)
Like we are so judgmental and unaccepting of the experience of negative emotion.

Jennifer Hayes (26:18.428)
and there's this toxic positivity.

Jennifer Hayes (26:24.668)
Everywhere. I see it everywhere. I see it in my own life. I see it everywhere out in the world. I see it in parenting. I see it

Jennifer Hayes (26:34.668)
I've done it. I'm guilty of it. Because negative emotion disrupts. It disrupts and requires something of us. It requires a response. And if you are bopping about your day and run across a post that you weren't expecting to read, or you're cooking dinner and all of a sudden, your children are fighting in the other room,

Papa Rick (26:53.770)
sometimes.

Papa Rick (27:03.450)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (27:04.608)
had are having a fantastic day and your partner comes home from work and had a shitty fucking day and takes an attitude with you or tells you starts to tell you about their day and how shitty it was. It's disruptive. It's disruptive. It's burdensome. It's annoying. Triggers negativity in you.

Papa Rick (27:12.176)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (27:25.050)
triggers negative stuff in ourselves to remind, you know, your negative story reminds me of my negative story. And yeah, that bag.

Jennifer Hayes (27:32.928)
I was having such a great day, like, why are you crashing my great day? And between adults, there's this concept of asking for consent before you don't just, like, unload on your partner with that, like, like dumping. We call it dump. Like,

Papa Rick (27:36.450)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (27:47.810)
Okay. I need to vent, you mind? Yeah, dumping.

Jennifer Hayes (27:52.208)
Right, like I don't call a friend and I'm just like, maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Papa Rick (27:55.734)
Hahaha

Papa Rick (28:03.450)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (28:08.368)
But when it's children, they are capable of that, especially small children, they're not, and that's not their job. You are a parent.

Papa Rick (28:13.211)
Yeah. Yeah.

Papa Rick (28:17.390)
Yeah, they're not to be vented on. Yeah. Dumped on.

Jennifer Hayes (28:19.148)
And until they are old enough to fit, you know, and you can teach them these skills, even from the time that they're very young about how to manage their emotions and help them regulate those emotions, etc., so that they don't grow up dumping on everyone around them.

Papa Rick (28:35.550)
There's a limit to what they're capable of receiving. I mean, those are junior skills. You don't still want to dump on children.

Jennifer Hayes (28:44.388)
But like we have lost just as a human race. There's this malfunction.

Jennifer Hayes (28:57.228)
in society, and maybe it's not in all societies. I've heard rumors of tribes and shit somewhere that fully integrate the entire human experience and accept negative emotions and whatnot. But this acceptance of the full human experience and instead of the denial of the negative emotion,

Papa Rick (29:24.870)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (29:27.748)
Like everyone has darkness and light in them and mind, like mindset work, self-healing work, all of those principles teach you that you can't shame and guilt those things away. You can't just...

Papa Rick (29:30.634)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (29:47.848)
ignore them. You can't just think over them positive thoughts and then you're going to be okay. That's not how it works until those things are acknowledged and appreciated and integrated because they bring you messages. There is a purpose. They're either there to protect you, they're there to change course, they're there to make you slow down and pause. A lot of people

Papa Rick (29:54.595)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (30:01.090)
Gone through, yep.

Jennifer Hayes (30:17.708)
down, change course, like, you know, and

Papa Rick (30:18.571)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (30:25.748)
So it's just, I feel like I was boiling over or something before I hopped on here with you. And there's just a lot of...

Jennifer Hayes (30:42.889)
My conclusion...

Jennifer Hayes (30:46.428)
that I've come to as far as the last two weeks with COVID and the disruption that it brought for me and my life and my business and all of the things is that there was some pivot needed of some kind. I don't, still not sure what it is. I've got a whole bunch of notes and stuff to talk about today.

Papa Rick (30:54.750)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (31:14.292)
Cool.

Jennifer Hayes (31:16.468)
and figure out and ideas that have been coming up for me, et cetera, but there was, I think it was appropriate that that post came up while we were talking first, because I could feel the energy just like, I all of a sudden got very anxious talking to you and like I don't get anxious talking to my dad.

Papa Rick (31:44.390)
What, what, what was my response? I forget what I, I mean, I'm sure I did something mindless off hand about, you know, hope you feel better. Uh.

Jennifer Hayes (31:54.728)
I don't think you commented on the actual post.

Papa Rick (31:57.850)
Did I just send a...

Jennifer Hayes (31:59.268)
I think you texted us and said, you sent us some YouTube stuff that I haven't looked at.

Papa Rick (32:05.710)
One of them might be that Jonathan Haidt thing, if that's how you say his name. You know, it's, what would you, what per, I just have a lot of questions. I don't want to problem solve. Facebook started off as like you described, you know, friends and family and keep in touch and how's everybody doing and who's having a good day and a bad day. And it's different now.

Jennifer Hayes (32:35.034)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (32:37.231)
It's a toxic, yeah, and the pandemic twisted the whole society a little bit with all the isolation. Boy, what would you?

Jennifer Hayes (32:37.608)
since the pandemic.

Papa Rick (32:55.730)
Yeah, I don't know. I don't even know where that goes. What would your if you got mostly positive responses or what responses that resonated positively with you?

Papa Rick (33:13.290)
80 or 90%. That's probably pretty good compared to what it could have been. If you were Taylor Swift or something and did have a billion followers.

Papa Rick (33:29.870)
Imagine everybody I'm hearing now that gets in that position says they don't, they do not read their comments, you know, cause there's just that fraction of the world that is just unkind, you know, and that's probably a bell curve too, where there's people who do it inadvertently and there are people who are trying to screw with you, you know, cause they're having a bad day.

Jennifer Hayes (33:53.708)
Yeah, and I don't have enough people for there to be people trying to screw with me. My spotlight is the people who think they're being helpful, but they're actually just minimizing being judgmental and dismissing my experience when all I need is for people to be like, we're here for you, I love you,

Papa Rick (34:01.854)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (34:17.718)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (34:19.890)
dismissive here.

Jennifer Hayes (34:22.688)
going through that. And that's what we do to our children is when our children are upset because it's something we don't think is a big deal because we've experienced 20 or 30 or 40 or 50 years of life, but they're two or three or four or 10. And this might be the worst thing that's ever happened to them. Right. The worst thing that's ever happened to you is the worst thing that's ever happened to you. Period. Nobody else gets to just

Papa Rick (34:23.950)
anything I can do, you know.

Papa Rick (34:35.574)
Mm-hmm

Papa Rick (34:40.990)
That's the worst day they ever had. Yeah.

Papa Rick (34:50.017)
That's a great perspective.

Jennifer Hayes (34:52.608)
judge how someone else feels. We are not in control of how something makes us feel until we have a fully developed frontal cortex and the skills built to stop running random ass stories in our head. And it's still like, there are still situations that I will suddenly, a feeling will be triggered. Like you will never stop

Papa Rick (35:00.414)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (35:17.172)
Yep.

Jennifer Hayes (35:23.328)
for the world to trigger you, the thing you will stop is your outward reaction to that trigger. And so feelings are not under your control initially. You will have feelings about things in the world for the rest of your life. And to expect our children to shame or guilt or toxic

Papa Rick (35:29.535)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (35:43.635)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (35:52.788)
our children's pain is only serving to make them continue to feel that pain alone and silenced and shamed about it. You're not fixing anything. You're not helping anyone by doing any of those things. And people, well-meaning people are doing it all the time. So there are good, good people. There are good, good humans.

Papa Rick (36:03.035)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (36:08.092)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (36:16.557)
Yep.

Jennifer Hayes (36:23.269)
well-intentioned people everywhere and there are good fucking parents who give a shit about their kids and are still

Papa Rick (36:28.314)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (36:32.213)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (36:35.608)
causing unintentional, deep-seated harm.

Papa Rick (36:41.050)
falling back on things they were modeled, things, you know, old habits. It's nobody's, nobody's, you could do it with nothing but good intent, but there, we recognize them now as bad cognitive habits or whatever.

Jennifer Hayes (36:45.971)
Right.

Jennifer Hayes (37:02.648)
lack of emotional intelligence and

Papa Rick (37:05.692)
There you go.

Jennifer Hayes (37:08.689)
you know, we were.

Jennifer Hayes (37:13.328)
I was not raised in a home with emotional intelligence. Like, sorry, but I wasn't. And a lot of people weren't. And so you step into parenting. The only tools you have are the ones you were given in your childhood, unless you have done some work in adulthood, unless you have met teachers, coaches, or whatever who have taught you more about emotional intelligence

Papa Rick (37:16.610)
Mm-mm. Mm-mm. No. No.

Papa Rick (37:28.500)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (37:41.470)
Yep. Yep.

Jennifer Hayes (37:43.669)
like, you know, or you've, you've gone to therapy or what, like, whatever, there's multiple avenues. Yeah. And, and

Papa Rick (37:47.970)
or a guru or yeah, yeah, you have to have studied it in some way, not necessarily college, but I've worked at this. Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (37:55.128)
Yeah, and actually done it, right? Not just read a book about it and then moved on with your life. And.

Papa Rick (38:00.370)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (38:04.808)
because actually doing it, not having emotional reactions to everything is really fucking hard. So... So it just...

Papa Rick (38:10.110)
Yeah. Well, that's your, that's your lizard brain. The way I, the way I frame that, you know, I did a little bit of, uh, uh, CBT cognitive behavioral therapy after my brother died. And so the thought, the feelings and thoughts you have are your lizard brain, basically your feelings, like you were talking about a minute ago, your, your feelings are going to happen. You know, what CBT, at least the kind, you know, the David Beck,

Jennifer Hayes (38:20.720)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (38:24.028)
That's a good one.

Jennifer Hayes (38:30.008)
Hmm.

Papa Rick (38:40.050)
think, you know, the flavor I went through was teaching yourself, it's kind of like critical thinking, where you teach yourself to go, ooh, there's a feeling. Is that appropriate to the situation? And it's that, you know, it's that witness, it's that third party in your head that goes, yeah, you need to relax about that. They're not really all planning

Jennifer Hayes (38:56.968)
Becoming, yeah, becoming the witness.

Papa Rick (39:10.150)
stuff that's behind a lot of the triggering. Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (39:11.608)
The witness or the wise mind. They separated into wise mind and lizard, lizard brain, survival brain, survival brain, lizard brain, which is based on fear. And then wise mind, which is like your higher self who operates out of love and faith.

Papa Rick (39:18.311)
Okay.

Papa Rick (39:23.690)
Yeah, exactly.

Papa Rick (39:28.690)
There you go. There you go. Good intentions, you know, maybe bad training, maybe not. You don't know what to do good, but you're trying to do good. You know, doing more harm than good when you stop and try to put a tourniquet on somebody or something else. Like, yep, that's not quite the right tool there, but you were trying. It's good that you had the right idea. Right. Emotion. I think you've got just all kinds of stuff to unpack in detail.

Papa Rick (39:58.750)
notebook in front of you, what was it, piecing things apart and figuring out how that works and adding that to the coaching repertoire.

Jennifer Hayes (40:09.528)
Well, I mean, there's a reason.

Jennifer Hayes (40:13.108)
There's a reason I'm doing what I'm doing. My passion, ugh, what's the quote?

Jennifer Hayes (40:25.868)
remember the quote and I can't remember where I heard it either. But ultimately we become, we...

Jennifer Hayes (40:37.848)
become.

Jennifer Hayes (40:42.832)
a lot of people become the person they wish they had when they were a kid.

Papa Rick (40:50.590)
wish we had like to look up to. Hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (40:53.508)
Mm-hmm. So people, and I don't agree that everyone does that. I think a lot of people just repeat the same cycle. They never become conscious of.

Papa Rick (40:57.492)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (41:06.148)
of the dysfunctional.

Jennifer Hayes (41:14.408)
habits in their family.

Papa Rick (41:16.950)
There are people who grow. There are people who grow.

Jennifer Hayes (41:18.708)
But people who become conscious, who really think critically about their life, decide and think mindfully about who they want to be, what kind of person they want to be, how they want to contribute to the world, become aware of the toxic habits and patterns that have been given to them. And then go on a quest to break and replace those patterns and seek growth and heal. And in order to do that, in order to grow through those things, you have to heal those

Papa Rick (41:25.533)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (41:37.600)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (41:48.728)
those wounds to some degree from your own childhood and your own past. And you have to integrate them into who you are and that they taught you things and that, but that you're now going to move on and be a different person. And, um, and the people who do that, the people who recognize that and choose growth and choose to break the cycle, you ultimately become the things that you're breaking and healing from are what you experienced.

Papa Rick (41:50.350)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (41:54.961)
Yep. Yep.

Papa Rick (42:18.290)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (42:18.928)
You don't know what anyone else's experience is. So you're not healing anyone else, any other wounds that you're imagining. You're healing yours. And so your work then, a lot of those types of people end up doing the work that serves to heal other people who experience those same things. And so it's no hidden secret that I am out here

Papa Rick (42:25.650)
You can only work on yourself. Yeah.

Papa Rick (42:40.871)
In sharing it. Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (42:48.868)
not repeat the cycles that I witnessed in my family growing up, to help other children not have to go through the things that I went through when I was a kid as I was growing up and to make the world a better place for the people who are raising children now and not just parent to child, but parent to parent as well. I grew up in a home where there was not a healthy marriage.

Papa Rick (42:52.250)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (43:19.508)
relationship to look up to. And so I learned, I grew up learning what not to do, but inevitably ended up, you know, in multiple adult relationships that reflected yours and mom's marriage until I figured it out, you know? And

Papa Rick (43:27.650)
That's right.

Papa Rick (43:35.935)
Yeah. Yeah. I felt the same way a lot of times. I'm learning a lot of what not to do.

Jennifer Hayes (43:41.168)
Yeah. And so my mission, my passion, my work, that my, what I feel my contribution to this world is, is teaching other people now that I've done over a decade of therapy and self work. And I've done all like the programs and the coaching and all of the things, and I'm, you know, continuing, like there's no stopping that for me.

on that path for myself for healing. Like there's still conversations I have with you, there's still conversations I have with mom, where we're healing that relationship ongoing.

Jennifer Hayes (44:26.488)
and continuing to dive deeper and be better. And, you know, my husband and I are doing that, etc. But I am now at a place where I know how to teach other people how to do it. And I feel this absolutely uncontrollable pull every single day of my life to get out of bed and teach this stuff to other people, to teach healthy relationship skills, to teach healthy parent-child

Papa Rick (44:34.177)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (44:39.092)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (44:56.768)
skills, how to respond to someone in distress no matter how old they are, in a way that won't cause harm. Trauma is emotional. It can be physical, but the deep-seated, long-term, lifelong trauma we carry is from our emotions that then embed themselves, they then manifest themselves physically into our world, into your body.

Papa Rick (45:00.694)
Hmm.

Papa Rick (45:06.150)
Thanks for watching!

Papa Rick (45:11.135)
Yep.

Papa Rick (45:15.937)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (45:26.650)
how you act, how you socialize.

Papa Rick (45:27.730)
That's an interesting thought. It's in your lizard brain and your ability of your wise, wise person, your, of your witness, you know, from a cognitive behavioral therapy thing, it, it's like your, your, your rational mind has a limited ability. You're limiting your rational mind's ability to deal with your lizard brain somehow, if I, if, if emotions come from the lizard brain. Hmm. That's an interesting thought.

Jennifer Hayes (45:32.970)
and it's.

Jennifer Hayes (45:55.528)
Well, so you're... and you are...

Jennifer Hayes (46:00.792)
when your lizard brain so trauma

Jennifer Hayes (46:05.848)
PTSD or a PTSD response is the reliving.

Papa Rick (46:07.792)
Yep.

Papa Rick (46:16.292)
Hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (46:17.108)
of the experience that traumatized you as if it is happening now. So that PTSD trigger, that trauma, it is a memory that lives inside of you and anytime something triggers that feeling in your brain, you relive that trauma over again. And so your lizard brain, which is where fear is held,

Papa Rick (46:20.010)
Marvel stuff. Yeah.

Papa Rick (46:39.472)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (46:47.388)
people call it your shadow self. Your shadow self comes in when something in your external environment causes that trigger or that feeling, it comes in to protect you. And that's where all these maladaptive behaviors come from, where you shut down or you dissociate or you get big and loud and yell and scream.

Papa Rick (46:50.650)
Hmm.

Papa Rick (47:16.690)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Cope. You cope in some way. Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (47:17.728)
to defend yourself, to literally protect yourself. You shut down and run away to protect yourself. You dissociate from yourself, your feelings, your thoughts. You dissociate and disconnect from reality. That is a trauma response. It's a fear response. It's a protective mechanism of your body. And so people who are, if you have a wildly abusive childhood or traumatic childhood,

Papa Rick (47:33.560)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (47:48.689)
you grow up into an adult who it's going to take a lot of wise mind work for you to overcome that trauma response and be able to have your wise mind take the driver's seat before your lizard brain does. And that's where like CBT and DBT and all, there's lots of different kinds of therapies for that and trauma informed therapies.

Papa Rick (48:09.050)
Yep.

Jennifer Hayes (48:19.934)
There are a lot of people walking around who had emotionally.

Jennifer Hayes (48:29.808)
traumatic childhoods with lack of, that were not, they were not beaten, they were not sexually abused, they were not made fun of or something by their, or bullied by their parents. And they say, oh, my childhood was normal. And then I ask a few questions and dig deeper. And it's like, oh, well, your parents dismissed you every time you had big feelings. Your parents ignored you if you threw tantrums and had big, big emotional reactions. You

Papa Rick (48:41.631)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (48:54.235)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (48:59.771)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (49:00.288)
punished or you were shamed for having big emotions. Like every time some, every time you had emotions, the response to you was negative and it was get away from me, go handle yourself, I can't handle your big emotions, etc. And even with like small things, like if you, if you argued with your parents, how dare you

Jennifer Hayes (49:30.188)
me. No, I'm a fucking human being with fucking thoughts and I get to talk about it. Like if I can't talk about it with you, if I can't practice arguing with you and like I have a point to make, you're not just cause you're older doesn't mean you're always right about everything. Like if your parents never took into account your point of view, like that, that is, that is emotionally damaging. And like we've talked about transferable skills

Papa Rick (49:30.934)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (49:44.650)
Hmm

Papa Rick (49:49.235)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (49:53.234)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (50:01.088)
You are depriving your child of a life skill by not letting them fucking argue with you. Yes, teach them how to respectfully argue their point and negotiate. Yes, teach them that skill. Be patient about it. They're tiny. They don't fucking know. But like you depriving your child of every sense of expression of who they are through

Papa Rick (50:07.114)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (50:10.630)
That's right, that's right, that's right.

Papa Rick (50:16.550)
They're still learning.

Jennifer Hayes (50:30.088)
that they have big emotions as part of humanity. And it's because like if you're parenting that way, you were parented that way.

Papa Rick (50:37.461)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (50:38.908)
Like because you like you believe you were raised to believe that if you show your negative emotions that you're somehow less worthy of a person, you are somehow a burden on the people around you that you are somehow not doing life right. You need to go in the closet and cry by yourself and then pick yourself up and pretend like everything's okay. That's what we're teaching our children.

Papa Rick (50:50.035)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (50:56.950)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (51:04.650)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (51:09.648)
walking around just that are just like I had a normal childhood. I wasn't beaten. I wasn't abused. Like yeah, I you know felt shut down and like I had to just go in my room and handle myself most of the time but that's just normal. Like there are tons of people walking around that are good people with good intentions and who don't even know that they are carrying emotional trauma and passing it down to their kids.

Papa Rick (51:36.790)
Yeah. Yeah, that's very true. And there's all kinds of perspectives to look at that from. If you, the kinds of trauma you're talking about, I agree with everything you're saying. There are people though, depending upon their circumstances, if I'm in battle,

Papa Rick (52:01.010)
That's not a great, that's not a huge concern. And so someone starts to become less useful in the environment we're in. I'm in to me, right? There's the people perceiving all of that too. If they're already overloaded, if they were taught how to deal with, you know, get this in line, man, we're going to drown if we don't get this raft lashed together.

Papa Rick (52:31.570)
Put that aside for now and you know, dismiss it. Shut up, get on board here and we'll all have a breakdown once we're afloat in the stream. If somebody's feeling something else, something intense, some kind of threat, some kind of fear, then someone else, when someone has a exhibits negative emotions, then not everybody's

position to hear that, right? So there's going to be people who are good. Ideally, a parent-child relationship is mostly the parent is mostly together. We talked about, uh, uh, uh, guy, the word escapes me now. I'm getting old, um, about regulated. Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (53:18.628)
Are you meaning for the life or death? Yeah, but are you meaning for the life and death raft example to be literal? Because that's like a one in a million situation. And of course, we're not going to stop and have an emotional conversation.

Papa Rick (53:26.551)
Yeah, yeah, and so

Papa Rick (53:30.170)
Right. Got it. No, I'm just saying that's one end of a bell curve. Try to draw a bell curve on the camera here, right? One end of the bell curve. And so there's a continuum of people experiencing it and people experiencing the upset and people with their own upset experiencing each other. It's the space in between, I guess, right? And so there's all possible combinations

Jennifer Hayes (53:54.455)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (54:00.330)
two bell curves, those two waves hitting each other. And so the experience you get, the response you get from other people is going to be infinite depending upon your circumstances. You know, it's great. We are so lucky to be able to sit around and discuss this and pick it apart like this. There are people who are in the middle of abusive relationships, in

Papa Rick (54:30.250)
racism and all kinds of stuff. And that, I think that's why Daniel Goldman with the emotional intelligence thing wanted to teach this in school. You know, school is, you know, more or less compulsory and boy, if you're going to get this out there, um, you want to teach them or, or Gichin Funakoshi teaching karate in the Japanese schools, you know, get to the kids. You can't depend on the parents because the parents are all over the place, right?

Jennifer Hayes (54:30.411)
Oh yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (54:41.249)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (55:00.810)
and you could do what you're trying to do is of so much value you know manage a conflict you know you're really leaning into a maelstrom you know where you can almost do no harm teaching anybody a little bit of emotional intelligence especially parents with kids you know if you teach a parent a little bit about

Papa Rick (55:30.598)
with a kid.

Papa Rick (55:33.170)
That's changing the world, you know, a little bit at a time.

Jennifer Hayes (55:35.508)
Well, that's the premise here is that I could go, my business model could be to go figure out how to teach directly to children. But all of the research shows that children mimic their parents. It is what it is. So you can put a kid, right, you can put a kid in school,

Papa Rick (55:41.950)
Oh

Papa Rick (55:47.433)
Either way. Yeah.

Papa Rick (55:55.730)
Yep, the best teachers are the parents. Yeah, grandparents are, they're around them the most.

Jennifer Hayes (56:05.508)
you want to teach them at school, but at the end of the day, that child goes home to their parents. That child sleeps through the night, needs their parents, wakes up in the morning, it's their parents, their parents are the ones feeding them, bathing them, and all of that. And so the most, for me, the decision to be a parent coach is that the

Papa Rick (56:09.732)
And if they're-

Papa Rick (56:15.931)
I agree. I agree.

Jennifer Hayes (56:29.248)
if you don't help the parents change.

Jennifer Hayes (56:35.268)
the children have much lower chances of changing. And so, and I also care, like I don't just care about children. I care about people who are adults, who didn't have parents who knew any of this stuff either, and are still trying to heal or figure out what the hell to do, or how to be a better parent for their kids and break those cycles and all of those things and find their own healing. And that's ultimately the goal

Papa Rick (56:38.650)
Yeah, I get that. I get it. Maybe that.

Papa Rick (56:52.642)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (57:00.741)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (57:03.881)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (57:05.208)
I want to help parents heal themselves, learn these skills, and then apply them to the parent-child relationship so that they are not raising the next generation to just repeat the same pain that we're all walking around with.

Papa Rick (57:08.451)
Yep.

Papa Rick (57:19.990)
Yeah. All good points. Yep. The, the, and that's probably why you don't see it being taught in schools like that because, because of exactly that somebody else realized that too, or probably, you know, probably there have been pilots done of it by this point. And it's like,

Jennifer Hayes (57:38.828)
I think there's a lot of schools that are, there's been a lot of like mindfulness, like in like yogic philosophies of, and meditational instead of detention. I think there are pockets of school districts in the US that I know of or have heard of or read articles of over the last five, seven years.

Papa Rick (57:44.370)
They incorporate elements. Yeah.

Papa Rick (57:54.654)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (57:59.413)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (58:07.034)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (58:09.228)
I did with mom and talking about her trauma-informed, you know care and trainings that she's doing in the schools But I think like I like it's happening, but it's it's what we learned from the education series is that it's happening very slowly

Papa Rick (58:10.576)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (58:16.239)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (58:25.210)
Yep, yep. Institutionalizing things is an achingly slow process.

Jennifer Hayes (58:31.128)
Yeah, well, and it's a whole cultural shift. And so there are people that are trying to get the school systems to systematically change things in that way. And I think that is definitely needed. And it is definitely a benefit. And if kids are at home with parents who are regulated and emotionally intelligent and teaching them how to navigate the world in an emotionally intelligent way

Papa Rick (58:47.650)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (59:01.028)
aren't all walking around with anxiety and depression forever. And then they go to school and their teachers respond to them in an emotionally intelligent way and they deal, you know, and then the kids are also like, you know what else? Kind of stops or at least kind of gets better when all the kids at home are learning emotional intelligence as they all come to school and they're not all walking around traumatized and abused and that gets rid of bullies.

Papa Rick (59:09.900)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (59:28.514)
It's like having a good breakfast. It facilitates the education process.

Jennifer Hayes (59:31.289)
Like, what if...

Jennifer Hayes (59:34.708)
Like, and there's people that are like, you said at the beginning that were, I forget what author you said that was, but that we're raising generations of soft humans. And I think that the pendulum was one way. I think the pendulum has swung back the other way. And I think there's this middle ground where we have relational

Papa Rick (59:47.550)
Hi.

Papa Rick (59:51.114)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (59:54.050)
through isolation.

Papa Rick (59:59.592)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:00:04.708)
intelligence so that we can navigate the world, navigate each other without all getting all hyped up and I'm going to fight, we're all going to fight. And you can take a karate class, you can go like there are hundreds of ways to make yourself tough. And actually emotional intelligence is what breeds resilience for you to get knocked down and stand back up again, by the way.

Papa Rick (01:00:05.614)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:00:09.650)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (01:00:31.370)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:00:34.788)
breeds confidence and makes you tougher so that you don't just fucking fall apart because no one ever taught you what to do with all this shit that's happening inside of you. And you, there are other ways to physically toughen up your kids to get them to have experiences in life that don't need to be traumatic. You don't

Papa Rick (01:00:35.070)
Yeah, doesn't make you fall apart. Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:00:45.450)
Yep.

Papa Rick (01:01:01.151)
mentally toughen them up.

Jennifer Hayes (01:01:03.388)
Yeah, well, and like that's what I'm saying, is that like people think you have to go out and have bad experiences in order to overcome those and become resilient. And that's not true. You have to learn how to deal with negative emotions in the home with someone that you trust. And you through the like emotional intelligence includes all those mindset things, how to think about things, how to overcome things, how to think through, how to stand up after you fall.

Papa Rick (01:01:12.250)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:01:20.450)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (01:01:25.850)
Mm-hmm. How to reframe, how to, yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:01:33.308)
Being able to do that at home and fall down and stand back up and someone's just going to love you through that allows you to be capable of stepping out into the world, having negative experiences or having things not go your way or losing, failing, whatever it might be and going, fuck, that really sucked, but I learned something from it. I'm going to stand up and try again. That comes from emotional intelligence at home.

Papa Rick (01:01:46.754)
Listen.

Papa Rick (01:01:55.150)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (01:02:01.450)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (01:02:03.508)
in your life that you can trust and rely on and who is not going to reject you or kick you to the curb when you have a tantrum and teaching you and walking you through emotional regulation so that you can go out into the world and emotionally regulate yourself when bad shit happens.

Papa Rick (01:02:10.692)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (01:02:20.370)
Yeah. Learning how that works and internalizing it like that also allows you when you're interactions with other people to recognize people that, you know, we talked before about people who grow and people who haven't yet. And to be able to recognize people who are on that track and people who aren't, you know, and when you run into helps you choose the people in your life or modify the way you

people and or respond to people and treat them and it's you know at some point sometimes if people just aren't there then you know it teaches you when to walk away you know how to say yeah this is okay that's that's great but this is a counterproductive this is not going where it needs to go for me so see

Jennifer Hayes (01:03:07.172)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:03:20.371)
beer.

Papa Rick (01:03:23.771)
keeps the whole system regulated and lets unregulated people go off and be unregulated. You don't get tied up in trying to fix or be right or whatever with unregulated people. It's very, yeah, it just makes the whole world run smoother.

Jennifer Hayes (01:03:41.568)
And it teaches you how to know yourself, to know what you need. And if you're seeking partnership or friendship or marriage or whatever, like you just said, it teaches you to know when it's time to walk away. Like when it's time to put in work and when it's time to surrender, cut loose, cut losses and move on, like we're not compatible. And to walk through that, those emotions of a breakup

Papa Rick (01:03:51.771)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:03:55.950)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:04:01.830)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:04:11.888)
without falling apart or to walk into a relationship without having to become something else in order to make the relationship work. I was really good at that. I was really good at becoming whatever I needed to be to make us compatible.

Papa Rick (01:04:14.051)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, just.

Papa Rick (01:04:21.210)
Yep, yep, pick one that's compatible.

Papa Rick (01:04:30.310)
You were well taught. You learned from the best. Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:04:34.068)
Like I became a chameleon, talk about a lizard. Like I became a chameleon to whoever I was dating until I got so sad and depressed inside the relationship and wasn't getting anything that I needed. And then it was like, well, there goes three years of my life, I have to go now. Like...

Papa Rick (01:04:43.051)
Yeah. Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:04:49.078)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:04:52.192)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:04:57.919)
This is no fun.

Papa Rick (01:05:01.770)
And that's where things like loyalty, you know, something, some positive traits start to work against you there. You know, that being a, you get to work so hard at being a chameleon and it's like, well, that in a, in a pile of loyalty will waste a lot of time in your life. You know? Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:05:09.372)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:05:18.108)
Well, so black and white thinking, black and white thinking is a huge fucking problem in the world. We, like that's why I'm always talking about a spectrum. You're always calling it a bell curve. I'm always calling it a spectrum. Like I believe, yes, like life is gray. Life is gray. There's no absolutes here. There's no absolutes here. And there's very little,

Papa Rick (01:05:30.614)
Yep.

Papa Rick (01:05:33.630)
Everything's gray. Shades of gray.

Papa Rick (01:05:38.850)
Yeah. Oh, that's a great philosophical argument. Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:05:48.148)
absolute in life is ahimsa. It's a yogic term. Ahimsa is do no harm.

Papa Rick (01:05:54.140)
I'm going to write that one down.

Papa Rick (01:05:58.111)
Okay, so that's like the caduceus like what is that the Hippocratic oath do you know harm?

Jennifer Hayes (01:06:03.288)
Do no harm. Ahimsa is the only black and white rule that I live by. And that is that no matter, like I, all beings are free to be themselves, express themselves, be who they are, including myself, live their life the way that they want to as long as you are causing no harm. And causing harm is things like murder, like intentionally hurting

Papa Rick (01:06:24.271)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (01:06:33.208)
feelings, doing something you know they don't like, shit like that. Manipulative, conscious harm, right?

Papa Rick (01:06:39.690)
Yeah, evil. I call that evil. It's a little evil, but it's evil. You know, it's going the wrong direction.

Jennifer Hayes (01:06:42.830)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:06:47.837)
And so black and white thinking spectrum.

Jennifer Hayes (01:06:53.948)
There is a gray area to everything. And like you said, loyalty. If you are too loyal, it can bite you in the ass. My, like they say in like diet culture, like too much of anything is bad.

Papa Rick (01:07:04.118)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (01:07:08.950)
That's right. That's right. Too much water.

Jennifer Hayes (01:07:12.749)
So part of this part of emotional intelligence and parenting a child to grow up into a critical thinker who can emotionally regulate themselves and respond to the world instead of react to the world, who can navigate any situation they're put in because they were given those skills in childhood. Part of that ability comes from...

Jennifer Hayes (01:07:41.128)
lost my train of thought, comes from the mindset of living in the gray because every situation requires… there's no one situation that is always going to be the same no matter how many times you run into it. So saying that I'm a loyal person, so once I'm friends with somebody, I'm friends with them forever, that's toxic because then that person can do whatever the fuck they want to you and you will just have to endure it.

Papa Rick (01:07:42.831)
I hate it when that happens.

Papa Rick (01:07:50.133)
Yes.

Papa Rick (01:07:56.750)
That's right.

Papa Rick (01:08:02.290)
Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

Papa Rick (01:08:07.690)
That's right. What if they dropped a bomb? What if they dropped a nuclear bomb on somebody for no reason? Are you still their friend? What if they turn into Hitler? You know? Yeah, no, absolutely.

Jennifer Hayes (01:08:15.489)
Right. Well, I'm loyal.

Jennifer Hayes (01:08:19.228)
Yeah. And they're like, like there is absolutely in in in marriage or long term partnership, there is absolutely like work that must be done between you to build and maintain a really a long term relationship. It takes fucking work and there is there is loyalty,

Papa Rick (01:08:32.871)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:08:49.108)
There are all of these wonderful pieces and characteristics that you must develop in order to have a successful long-term partnership. There is also a point where if that person is not reciprocating or that person is intentionally doing shit to hurt you or like there, I mean, a hundred different examples that I could give.

Papa Rick (01:08:57.370)
Yeah. Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:09:12.881)
Mm-hmm

Papa Rick (01:09:15.290)
Yeah, yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:09:20.048)
someone is not doing, not pulling their load and like you have to decide when it's actually healthier for you, for them, for kids, for whoever to actually cut your losses and move on. To give each other the chance.

Papa Rick (01:09:24.576)
Right.

Papa Rick (01:09:35.790)
Yep. Yeah. Or, or stick it out until they get tired of playing with you. You know, cat like I'm with a cat and a mouse kind of thing.

Papa Rick (01:09:47.670)
In which case it's not your decision. You know, it's not, you're not making any decision at all.

Jennifer Hayes (01:09:55.528)
I would never coach someone to do that.

Jennifer Hayes (01:09:59.368)
I'd never coach someone to.

Papa Rick (01:09:59.490)
Well, no, no, no, absolutely. That was a negative. That was a negative example. The, the over loyalty to the point, which, you know, tying into what you were saying is sometimes people don't make that decision to walk away and it's not necessarily a good decision.

Jennifer Hayes (01:10:03.808)
Oh.

Jennifer Hayes (01:10:12.368)
Yeah, because there's, I also believe like.

Jennifer Hayes (01:10:19.528)
marriage, we have different relationships that serve different purposes in our life. I think that comes to romantic relationships as well. You meet someone and maybe you're compatible in that moment or compatible in that year, but then your lives are meant to go in different directions or you've learned all that you were meant to learn from one another or whatever. When people break up and say the relationship has run its course,

Papa Rick (01:10:29.750)
Hmm.

Papa Rick (01:10:34.750)
Mm-hmm. Timing.

Papa Rick (01:10:39.494)
Hmm.

Papa Rick (01:10:43.431)
Learning. Yep.

Papa Rick (01:10:47.550)
Yep.

Jennifer Hayes (01:10:49.408)
that like it's an amicable amicable breakup. No one is leaving and like I will never talk to him again. Like they are a piece of shit. Like no one's doing that. It's just we are going our separate ways. Our lives are meant to be separate and we have like the relationship has run its course. Like I believe in that. I don't believe blindly that marriage is always forever. Um, and I

Papa Rick (01:10:58.450)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:11:09.534)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:11:15.770)
I have to think that one through. Because I think.

Jennifer Hayes (01:11:18.148)
And I also believe there are lots of taught, like there are abusive marriages. There are like, there are.

Jennifer Hayes (01:11:29.409)
Marriage is the only...

Jennifer Hayes (01:11:35.448)
decision.

Jennifer Hayes (01:11:38.708)
choice.

Jennifer Hayes (01:11:41.948)
in our lives, in society.

Jennifer Hayes (01:11:47.528)
where...

Jennifer Hayes (01:11:50.108)
we are expected to never change our minds or evolve or move on or like there's no

Papa Rick (01:11:58.230)
So think of it this way. There's, I mean, you're at a moment, you're always at a moment in time, right? You're standing in a stream and life is moving by, including people. And the trick with marriage, I think marriage is forever. That's why there's a vow, because there's stuff that you have to deal with that, if it weren't for the marriage, if it weren't for the permanence of the thing, you wouldn't stick it around. You wouldn't stick around for.

The trick is to don't get married. You know, people who get married really young, it's a miracle, you know, that they, people getting married in their teens and 20s, it's just a miracle, because you do change so much after that. And the trick is don't say I do until you have, until your personality has stabilized to a point where you can say, well, you know,

Papa Rick (01:12:57.190)
you know, at whatever age people have generally achieved a certain percentage of their stature, you know, and I can say I'm pretty sure I'm not going to change in my basics that much between now and the day I die. I'll learn stuff and whatnot, but I figured out my motivations and jobs will change and superficial stuff will change, but my internal workings are probably not going to change

be able to recognize someone else that that is true of and say, okay, what you, now you can kind of say, what you see is what you get and you can make an informed decision and you shouldn't.

Jennifer Hayes (01:13:37.568)
Yeah, and wouldn't it be great if everybody waited until that moment?

Papa Rick (01:13:41.570)
And you shouldn't get married or otherwise you're in a situation where they were a hundred thousand years ago where you get married and you just suck it up and everybody behaves mostly very much so that nobody wants to leave. You know, there's, there's institutions involved in keeping that. If you don't subscribe to those.

Jennifer Hayes (01:13:59.913)
Right.

Jennifer Hayes (01:14:02.948)
But so marriage is, so what I'm saying though, is that marriage is this black and white thing for a lot of people. Like if you get married, that's it, you're done. And what I'm saying is that's bullshit. I think I, the person I am married to, like we're in it for life. Like our commitment was made with the intention of like, we've waited, we've been in the, we've figured out who we are, we figure out what we want,

Papa Rick (01:14:13.790)
Yeah, that's the ideal.

Papa Rick (01:14:17.852)
I know, I know.

Papa Rick (01:14:32.383)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (01:14:33.248)
our personalities are developed, like we are, this is it. Right? And I hope to God that that is true and that the next 40, 50, 60 years, we are successful at that. Everything in our lives is aimed at that goal.

Papa Rick (01:14:36.870)
Exactly. Exactly.

Papa Rick (01:14:42.420)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (01:14:47.631)
Yeah, yeah.

Papa Rick (01:14:51.292)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:14:53.788)
I don't believe that every person gets married because you don't know what you don't know about yourself. There are people that I dated in my past that had they proposed, I might have married them and it would have ended in divorce.

Papa Rick (01:15:02.671)
Right.

Papa Rick (01:15:09.861)
Hmm.

Papa Rick (01:15:12.575)
Mm-hmm

Jennifer Hayes (01:15:14.394)
and

Papa Rick (01:15:17.450)
So how do you figure that out?

Jennifer Hayes (01:15:19.628)
So the argument that I'm making here is that life is gray. Life is not black and white. And I was just using marriage as an example of this human stipulation of being black and white. And it's literally the only thing on earth. Cause even having a kid, you can give up for adoption. Somehow having a child is not as much of a commitment to people as marriage is.

Papa Rick (01:15:21.790)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:15:45.623)
Hmm.

Papa Rick (01:15:49.150)
Hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (01:15:49.888)
I am not talking about situations of abuse and sexual trauma and rape and things like that where a baby is not intentionally conceived, et cetera. I am just making a point and a distinction in human, the way that humanity has set itself up is that marriage somehow has become this black and white notion. We make commitments all the fucking time.

Papa Rick (01:15:55.750)
Hmm.

Papa Rick (01:16:17.730)
designed to be permanent. Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:16:19.708)
commitments that we break all the fucking time because we don't exist in a vacuum. We exist moment to moment and we don't know how we're going to feel or how we're going to be. I don't mean like emotionally feel. I mean physically. We don't know what we're going to be capable of in any given moment. None of us knows the future.

Papa Rick (01:16:22.913)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:16:27.133)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (01:16:39.812)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (01:16:49.608)
somehow make 100% of them successful. And so then marriage has to be this black or white concept. It's like.

Papa Rick (01:16:52.932)
Not a hundred.

Jennifer Hayes (01:17:00.068)
I'm just saying there's nowhere else in humanity do we expect people to make a choice that's going to last for almost a hundred years of their lives. It's ridiculous.

Papa Rick (01:17:10.870)
rest of their life. There's a, there's a, well you get the mafia, you get them to be a made person. That's an undoable thing. There's an idea of an undoable commitment.

Jennifer Hayes (01:17:17.271)
Like I've-

Papa Rick (01:17:27.610)
that I think has value. But back to the who's gonna, yeah, yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:17:32.048)
I agree. I've never said, none of this argument is about the value. I'm married. I know the value of marriage and permanence. Like I'm not saying anything against marriage. I'm not saying that the goal shouldn't be. I'm saying it is a ridiculous thought. It is a ridiculous expectation to expect 100% of marriages to last forever, to expect every person

Papa Rick (01:17:40.030)
Really?

Papa Rick (01:17:46.292)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:17:59.016)
you

Jennifer Hayes (01:18:01.588)
the choice of marriage to last forever no matter what. Even if you're being beaten, even if you're being beaten every fucking night, you stay married. I'm saying that there are people who fucking believe that shit.

Papa Rick (01:18:01.871)
Agreed, agreed.

Papa Rick (01:18:06.310)
Back to the greatness.

Papa Rick (01:18:13.028)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:18:16.070)
Yeah, now there's always a, there's always a, I agree, there's always a fringe. That's black and white thinking is one of them is one of my red flags, you know, that, cause that tends to not promote growth, uh, not recognizing the grayness of the universe. Um, and yeah, nothing. And also in the same thought, nothing is a hundred percent people die, you know? And, and so you can't, you can't, nothing's ever a hundred percent either. So there's no infinity.

Jennifer Hayes (01:18:25.329)
Right.

Jennifer Hayes (01:18:38.652)
Alright.

Papa Rick (01:18:46.370)
Um, okay, okay. But as an ideal, there are, I mean, because in a marriage, things happen. That's why you get married is because whatever happens, you want to have a partner in crime, you know? And so you want to be, you want those to be pretty stable. But I agree. Okay. That's not yet. Absolutely not 100%. You know, the world won't allow anything to be 100%. There's

Jennifer Hayes (01:19:03.350)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:19:16.170)
always stuff that happens. So, interesting. I love these talks.

Jennifer Hayes (01:19:23.928)
I know. And I, we hit record almost the moment we started, we hopped on here and started talking. And I, I've been wanting to, one of the pivots that I've made or that I'm making is, is setting up these

Papa Rick (01:19:40.292)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (01:19:47.588)
episodes a little bit differently. I walked in, I walked into the podcast with a vision and things became a little like almost a little more structured than I originally wanted them to. But then it kind of, I don't know if it just got away from me or whatever, but a little too like a little too structured, a little too not scripted, but like for the topical topical

Papa Rick (01:19:50.013)
Okay.

Papa Rick (01:19:53.297)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (01:20:02.354)
Okay.

Papa Rick (01:20:05.131)
Well, we're evolving.

Jennifer Hayes (01:20:17.548)
episodes with you and with you and I obviously the education episode has been guests speakers but the topics for you and I

Papa Rick (01:20:24.435)
Right.

Jennifer Hayes (01:20:30.088)
I would make, you know, we would have our little outline and I just, I would make sure that like, I wanted to make sure I was teaching parents valuable things and hitting points. And it made me, it made me very.

Papa Rick (01:20:37.610)
That's right, that's right. That's right.

Jennifer Hayes (01:20:48.308)
feel very presentation-like. I felt like I needed to be a certain way.

Papa Rick (01:20:52.592)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (01:20:59.090)
Well, there's an agenda, right? You're teaching relational parenting. And so that constricts things a little bit.

Jennifer Hayes (01:21:01.030)
Yeah. Bane.

Jennifer Hayes (01:21:06.048)
Bane, come here. Come say hello to everybody. Come here. Come say hi. So, hi. Oh, you're such a good boy. You're such a good boy.

Papa Rick (01:21:10.330)
Woof. Ruff, ruff, ruff. We need some headphones for Bane.

Jennifer Hayes (01:21:18.931)
Um, can you lay down?

Jennifer Hayes (01:21:23.177)
Um...

Jennifer Hayes (01:21:28.068)
So bringing things back to being a little more just natural like today, like we've just, we've just been fucking talking. I just, I hit record in the middle of one of your sentences and it's allowed me to just be, talk the way that I talk without being like, I don't know, some kind of like.

Papa Rick (01:21:36.731)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (01:21:51.450)
Well, you were selling something. I mean, it, you know, basically you have an agenda and. The list of things you want to point you want to make.

Jennifer Hayes (01:21:56.428)
Well, not selling, like I wanted to provide value. I wanted to make sure I was giving people something worth listening to. And, but I think these natural conversations and discussions and arguments and whatever comes up more naturally in a less structured way is gonna be more interesting

Papa Rick (01:22:01.471)
Hmm.

Papa Rick (01:22:07.350)
Sure.

Papa Rick (01:22:16.933)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (01:22:27.250)
Okay. We have a niche, you know, people with our relationship that came out of crazy relationships that, you know, that's certainly a niche that there's plenty of people might be interested to listen to.

Jennifer Hayes (01:22:28.220)
But I'm also...

Jennifer Hayes (01:22:40.908)
Yeah. And I still, and I, and we're still going to do a general topic. So like we came in, I really just came in and was updating you because you brought up my post on Facebook. We're asking me how I was doing and, and stuff since COVID and all of that. And it just kind of launched into something that happened to be related to this. Um, and, but I also, like I was sitting in my kitchen counter just

Papa Rick (01:22:55.792)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (01:23:04.372)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (01:23:11.193)
D D

Papa Rick (01:23:14.150)
Cool.

Jennifer Hayes (01:23:14.408)
um on different sheets of paper and I emailed this to myself and I you emailed me stuff um

Papa Rick (01:23:25.470)
We got a ton of stuff. I've got notes from each of the, yeah, we got all kinds of stuff to talk about.

Jennifer Hayes (01:23:28.788)
of what to talk about.

Jennifer Hayes (01:23:32.708)
today and I was just like, I don't fucking know. I'm gonna get on there and we're just gonna start talking and see what comes out. But I think that I've been...

Jennifer Hayes (01:23:47.928)
I think there's been a lot of value in this conversation already. And we're of course well past an hour. But I think that part of what I want, I know, part of what I really want to start doing on here is I want to do less intro and outro stuff and just do more like updating people inside of the episode because it's just more interesting that way. Like for me, when I listen to a podcast and I have to constantly listen to the exact same intro and outro.

Papa Rick (01:23:54.397)
Good. Oh, are we? That really went fast.

Papa Rick (01:24:09.850)
There you go. That sounds right. Yeah, that sounds good.

Jennifer Hayes (01:24:17.848)
want to skip it. Skip, skip, skip, skip, skip. Yeah, so I think that so that's one of the pivots. Okay, so we're gonna go back to like COVID knocked me out for two weeks. I got depressed as fuck. Anxious, so anxious. I wanted to crawl out out of my skin. But I knew the whole time. I still felt all of those things, even though I knew this in my head. I knew the

Papa Rick (01:24:18.230)
Yeah, yeah, I've found myself doing that on YouTube now too. It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, get to the beat.

Papa Rick (01:24:35.650)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:24:44.251)
rational lizard.

Jennifer Hayes (01:24:47.888)
being there's always a reason everything good or bad that happens to me or that I experience in life or whatever. There's always a reason especially the uncontrollable things like there's stuff that happens to you or stuff that you do that's based on your choices like you make a series of choices that leads you to something.

Papa Rick (01:24:49.950)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:25:06.562)
Consequences.

Jennifer Hayes (01:25:08.668)
Right. But then there's like the uncontrollable things that just happen to you. And then you get to take those experiences and make them.

Jennifer Hayes (01:25:20.368)
what they are. They're either going to serve a purpose or they're not. And so I knew even while I was going through it, I knew that I would eventually get to this place of being able to take that experience and transform it into something that would serve me. But at first I needed to feel my fucking feelings. And that's literally all that post was. And then you brought it up and then I ranted about it here. And I literally now feel like all

Papa Rick (01:25:23.297)
That's right. Growth.

Papa Rick (01:25:37.454)
Okay.

Papa Rick (01:25:41.650)
Yep.

Jennifer Hayes (01:25:50.388)
like, oh, at the beginning of this episode is gone. And I'm already having.

Papa Rick (01:25:52.550)
Mm-hmm. And see that I need to understand that mechanism. I don't know if that's a gender thing, but yeah, they say, you know, talking about it helps. And I kind of, right now I'm not getting it.

Jennifer Hayes (01:26:02.808)
It's not a, it's a well researched thing for everyone. Every human being on earth has to be seen and witnessed because it's been beaten out of you your whole life.

Papa Rick (01:26:14.830)
I have to come to terms with it myself before there's any point in trying to talk about it to anybody else. I've got an extra layer in there somewhere that says, this does not make sense to me. And like this, I mean, yeah, and there is a certain amount of, okay, I can't talk about it with everybody. I can't talk about it at work. I need a trusted source.

Jennifer Hayes (01:26:27.314)
That's fear.

Papa Rick (01:26:43.931)
of it so yeah

Jennifer Hayes (01:26:45.988)
It's being vulnerable. It's fear. And when you, when it doesn't make sense to you, you go, Oh, I'm, this is crazy. It's too fucking crazy. I can't let anyone else know that I'm feeling this because then they're going to think I'm crazy.

Papa Rick (01:26:58.410)
No, there's not that with me anyway. There's not that fear. It's just, yeah, they can't help. They can't, they can't, I can't describe it until I can describe it to myself. You know, lizard brain is lizard brain. There's no describing anything to a lizard brain. It's just a massive feeling. The, the upper brain, I need to understand what the lizard brain is doing before I can, before there's any point in really saying too much. Now I'm good. You know, I have a group of guys.

Jennifer Hayes (01:26:59.549)
or they're not gonna understand.

Papa Rick (01:27:28.390)
being vulnerable and say, man, this is, you know, this is, here's what's going on. Help me figure out what's going on, but not everybody's qualified to do that. You know, or I mean, it's not so much me being afraid to share it to somebody. It's like, like we were talking about before. Yeah. I've shared with this person before and they are no help. You know, exactly. You got to choose.

Jennifer Hayes (01:27:52.108)
Well, so then they just become a person that you don't share that stuff with. Like there's stuff I share with my husband that I don't share with you. There's stuff that I share with Kristen that I don't share with other friends. And it's not, you know, like there's.

Papa Rick (01:27:58.719)
That's

Papa Rick (01:28:03.170)
Any other people. Yeah. And so that's all it is. It's just, and maybe you guys don't have as many people, you know, or something. So.

Jennifer Hayes (01:28:10.208)
Well, that's also well researched that men don't have the social network that women do.

Papa Rick (01:28:12.330)
know. Yeah. So I have trouble finding some another guy to talk about this stuff with. That's part of why I enjoy talking with you because we're, you know, we're special. We have each other's best interests.

Jennifer Hayes (01:28:21.472)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:28:24.508)
Well, and so there's value when you need to just be like, there's nothing wrong with the urge to sit with something and figure it out yourself. But there is more often than not, that is a trauma response to a certain point. So I'm like, we wanna figure shit out in our own heads and figure out what I'm feeling or whatever. And there's often times where like,

Papa Rick (01:28:37.550)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (01:28:54.150)
Thanks for watching!

Jennifer Hayes (01:28:54.588)
something to Lewis until I have figured out what it is I actually need to talk about. But there are also multiple, many times where he or I will be like, okay, this is happening and this is happening and I don't know what the fuck is going on, but I'm just going to talk it out right now because I haven't even thought about it yet. And there's value, there's so much value in that because when you...

Papa Rick (01:28:57.530)
Yeah. What am I? Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:29:14.587)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:29:22.170)
There is.

Jennifer Hayes (01:29:24.648)
not go right the first time you do that with a friend who you've never done with before, but like just tell them what you need. Be like, okay, I don't want you to say anything. I just need to talk something out loud with you that I haven't quite figured out yet. And then if they're like, okay, yeah, sure. Go ahead. Then just start talking it out. And literally like, like this is why talk therapy works for a lot of people is you just need to work it out and have a sounding board. And they don't even really say much. You

Papa Rick (01:29:28.970)
with a trusted person. Yeah, yeah.

Papa Rick (01:29:50.251)
Thank you. Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (01:29:54.508)
you're figuring it out as you're saying it, but there's, there's a difference between thinking something in your head and saying it out loud and hearing it go back in your ears. That and that's, and that's good. There's, there's times where we need to just like be alone and go into the cave and, you know, think about something, but more often than

Papa Rick (01:29:56.692)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:30:04.330)
Yep, multiple learning paths of learning.

Papa Rick (01:30:18.875)
Go-

Jennifer Hayes (01:30:24.648)
highly emotional situation is connection. Connection and to be seen and witnessed in what you're feeling and to be accepted and loved no matter how you're feeling. And for someone else to, especially if it's a negative emotion, for someone to be able to see you in your worst moments,

Papa Rick (01:30:31.950)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (01:30:51.813)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (01:30:54.688)
completely vulnerable, completely like... real.

Papa Rick (01:30:59.150)
unable to figure something out for you know all by yourself.

Jennifer Hayes (01:31:02.348)
imperfect, flawed, whatever you want to call it. And for them to be like, I'm here, we're going to figure this out. I love you.

Papa Rick (01:31:08.650)
Hmm.

Papa Rick (01:31:13.050)
to not take advantage of it.

Jennifer Hayes (01:31:14.908)
There is nothing in this world.

Jennifer Hayes (01:31:19.709)
more powerful.

Jennifer Hayes (01:31:22.649)
than that.

Papa Rick (01:31:23.910)
That's where connection comes from. That's what connection is.

Jennifer Hayes (01:31:27.228)
but people are so either on one side, they are so terrified of that vulnerability because they've been fucked over so many times. And we are so incapable of responding to the reality of the human experience when it's negative, because we're not taught these things. We're not taught to accept the full spectrum of human experience,

Papa Rick (01:31:34.333)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (01:31:36.790)
Yep, you gotta take a risk with a new person.

Papa Rick (01:31:46.314)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:31:48.610)
Yep, the person may not be prepared to hear it.

Papa Rick (01:31:54.850)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:31:57.448)
disconnect here. That is, if I'm vulnerable, I'm getting attacked.

Papa Rick (01:32:02.770)
Yeah. Well, you could expect, I, I expect to be attacked or taken advantage of or whatever. And so you have to, so that's the some P and there are going to be people who don't have anybody around them. They can do that with, there are no safe people. There are no, there's no, and so then how many years and from what age do you have to spend with that, where they go, you know, I'm an adult and screw that. I ain't.

Jennifer Hayes (01:32:04.428)
or taken advantage of or whatever.

Jennifer Hayes (01:32:08.608)
Great.

Jennifer Hayes (01:32:20.408)
Great.

Jennifer Hayes (01:32:25.008)
Okay.

Papa Rick (01:32:32.790)
nothing with nobody.

Jennifer Hayes (01:32:34.408)
Yeah. And that's, this is working out. This is, I haven't even like read these at all, but we're literally like slowly working through all of my thoughts. You're setting me up. You're setting me up. You're my alley-oop. But I, two things just popped up for me. One being that I searched this earth until I found my husband

Papa Rick (01:32:46.290)
Yeah. It's organic.

Papa Rick (01:32:58.635)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:33:06.529)
besides my very close girlfriends who have helped me through numerous ugly, ugly fucking moments, but I'm not attracted to any of them, found a man who could witness me weak and tired and broken and vulnerable and raw and pissed and all of those things and do nothing but love me through it.

Papa Rick (01:33:13.939)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You have found some people.

Papa Rick (01:33:34.270)
You should marry this guy.

Jennifer Hayes (01:33:36.128)
that I was like, oh shit, I think I'm gonna marry you. And he also, he taught me.

Papa Rick (01:33:38.530)
Yeah, that's what it is. That's what it is. And that's something.

Jennifer Hayes (01:33:47.328)
He taught me how to do it too. I was getting there and I was pretty good at it with my friends, but I was not good at it as a whole towards partners because I've always had a wall and armor because I'd been screwed over so many times. Yeah. But his ability to...

Papa Rick (01:33:49.850)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:34:01.014)
Okay.

Papa Rick (01:34:04.975)
had a, cause you had a history and yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:34:17.868)
like just see me, the true me, the good hearted, good intentioned, strong, powerful, like best self me. And then to see me in a moment of not being those things and still love me just as hard through that taught me to be capable of giving that to him. Like even more.

Papa Rick (01:34:27.750)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (01:34:33.034)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (01:34:41.330)
Yeah. Comp, you complimented each other. You both, you both had issues, right? Everybody has issues, but you found a match where you could learn from each other.

Jennifer Hayes (01:34:50.868)
Yeah. And the second thing is, so kids, wait till you find somebody who does that before you get married. Okay. And wait till you're capable of doing it too, then get married. Okay. So that was my, that was my PSA. The second thing that you made me think of is that you said that there are a lot of people who don't even have one person, a friend, sibling, a family member, a partner.

Papa Rick (01:35:00.395)
Amen.

Papa Rick (01:35:02.850)
That's right. That's right.

Papa Rick (01:35:13.855)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:35:17.370)
We don't recognize how privileged we are, you know, to have a peaceful way to explore and grow.

Jennifer Hayes (01:35:20.008)
that they can talk to, that they can truly be vulnerable and raw and weak, weak, vulnerable with. And I know that. I know that there are so many people, I've met them, I know them that are absolutely alone in this world, whether they have left a toxic family environment

Papa Rick (01:35:28.811)
Figure it out.

Papa Rick (01:35:43.491)
in their head.

Papa Rick (01:35:49.072)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:35:50.048)
group of friends who are truly like there for them no matter what. There are so many people in this world who are alone and haven't found their people yet. And that leads us into one of today's pivoting announcements, which is that I've scrapped the whole group coaching program for now. For now, we're going to do it again. We're going to do it again.

Papa Rick (01:36:15.470)
Okay, yeah. Keep the notes, don't burn anything.

Jennifer Hayes (01:36:20.008)
But instead of trying to cut down and resell and redo all the shit and get it all done in a sloppy way before my honeymoon, we're going a different route. And because my biggest value in starting my company in the first place, being a parent coach, naming it relational parenting, my biggest value is connection in my personal life and in my business.

connection. Connection is what makes life worth living.

Papa Rick (01:36:50.150)
figuring it out. Yep.

Jennifer Hayes (01:36:55.648)
And so what parents are suffering with the most from all of the ones that I have talked to, which is a lot, I would borderline say hundreds. If we're counting all 20 years, thousands, but if we're just counting recently, hundreds, is that no one has a village.

Jennifer Hayes (01:37:25.608)
takes a village, that will never not be true to raise children. And there are so many people just doing it alone, either single parenting or partnered or single parenting with a partner, depending on your relationship.

Papa Rick (01:37:30.655)
this.

Papa Rick (01:37:33.750)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:37:41.511)
Or in a marriage and not meshed and sort of kind of doing it their own ways. Even, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha.

Jennifer Hayes (01:37:47.148)
That's what I mean by single parenting and a partner. Yeah. There are lucky percentage of people who are parenting with either a good co-parent or a wonderful partner who they've done some work and they are sharing the responsibility, et cetera. And even that is not enough. Families are isolated and alone

Jennifer Hayes (01:38:17.188)
maybe have a girlfriend, like there, but there are families, there are people who don't have anyone else to rely on, who don't have anyone they can truly call and be like, I feel like shit today. Can you come watch my kid or whatever, whatever the request might be. Like we aren't, we aren't connected. We don't have communities anymore. And so when I was laid up for two weeks in between the brain fog, like literally inability to think,

Papa Rick (01:38:34.370)
Hmm. Mm-mm.

Jennifer Hayes (01:38:47.108)
was either I couldn't think straight and just kept passing out or I was in such high anxiety that I wanted to die. There were a few moments.

Papa Rick (01:38:49.250)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:39:00.208)
in between where all I could think about was having a monthly membership community. Because even though it's online, if it gets big enough, there could be a Denver community, a, you know, like, you know, a city in Illinois where parents can find themselves in the directory

Papa Rick (01:39:04.494)
Cough

Jennifer Hayes (01:39:30.108)
and have mommy coffee dates and like be supportive. Daddy coffee dates or.

Papa Rick (01:39:30.790)
Physically. Okay. This is like a social network. Not just virtual.

Jennifer Hayes (01:39:37.928)
So creating an online membership community that's not just like Instagram or Facebook or whatever, where it's like random social media bullshit, but a concentrated online community of parents where I'm obviously hosting workshops, live Q&As, master classes, etc.

Papa Rick (01:39:51.672)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:40:07.408)
every single month. So three to four live sessions that are also recorded so that if you can't make it live, you can watch on your own time. So time and support are the two biggest things that parents are not getting. And I would argue that time, not having any time is because of a lack of support.

Papa Rick (01:40:24.510)
Nah, don't have, yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:40:37.608)
that is affordable, accessible in your own time and fits into the insane schedule of a parent, whether you have one kid, whether you have seven kids, whether you have a newborn or whatever it might be, it will fit into anyone's schedule and you can watch or listen on demand.

Papa Rick (01:41:01.830)
your schedule on demand.

Jennifer Hayes (01:41:09.209)
And you can, it's, there's a, there's, you know, you can ask questions, you can reach out to other parents, you can find each other locally, you can, and then you have access to all of these workshops and classes, and then also direct access to me, obviously, to ask questions, you know, give me topic ideas, what do you want to learn about all those things?

Papa Rick (01:41:09.370)
You don't have to.

Jennifer Hayes (01:41:37.771)
So instead of doing these big...

Papa Rick (01:41:39.930)
be a community. Yeah. You know.

Jennifer Hayes (01:41:42.908)
these, yeah, so I'm pivoting. So that's the pivot right now, is starting this online membership, where not only do you have access to education, but you have access to me and you have access to other parents and community. And you like, being, like I said earlier, being seen in your raw vulnerability

Papa Rick (01:41:48.350)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (01:42:12.968)
it is the most powerful experience on earth. It's the most liberating experience on earth. It is the most filling experience on earth. And to feel that safe is a gift. And, but I want it to be normalized. I want it to be expected. I want it to be the norm for people to respond to people's pain in that way.

Papa Rick (01:42:18.892)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:42:43.771)
is to see them at their deepest, darkest, ugliest.

Papa Rick (01:42:43.950)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (01:42:48.213)
Hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (01:42:49.748)
and still know.

Jennifer Hayes (01:42:52.928)
like, and still love them and still know them and, and, and.

Papa Rick (01:42:56.270)
Yeah, it's okay to be ugly. It's okay to have bad, be angry. It's okay to be hurt.

Jennifer Hayes (01:42:58.708)
Right.

Jennifer Hayes (01:43:01.588)
And so as a parent, parenting brings out, like if you weren't aware of your shit before you became a parent, you are definitely aware of it now.

Papa Rick (01:43:12.916)
That's a bumper sticker. I'm aware of my shit. Some of it anyway. Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:43:16.328)
I have kids. Like if you, if you haven't looked in a mirror your whole life until you have children and you're like, your children are going to be your mirror. Um, they are going to trigger and poke every button that you have until you heal it. And yup. Yeah. And

Papa Rick (01:43:27.778)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:43:32.971)
Huh.

Papa Rick (01:43:35.150)
That's their job. They're doing their job when they're getting on your nerves.

Jennifer Hayes (01:43:45.408)
that triggering and that bringing out the, they're gonna bring out the worst in you and you're gonna feel guilt and anxiety and like people worry about their kids. They worry about what they're doing to fuck up their kids. They constantly, where am I doing it right? Is it like, am I just fucking my kid up? Am I whatever? And to be able to come to a community and share that story or ask that question or be like, oh my God,

Papa Rick (01:43:54.074)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:44:14.808)
I fucking yelled at my kid today.

Papa Rick (01:44:16.590)
I did do something. Yeah, I can't, I know I did something I shouldn't have done to my kid, yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:44:21.408)
And I just, I just need to hear that someone else has lost their shit on their kid today. And what did you do to repair it? Like, or whatever. But.

Papa Rick (01:44:27.670)
Yeah. Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:44:33.850)
That's like episode one for us, isn't it? One, two, we're talking about that. That's real, that came up early in our discussions. Inappropriate anger towards Josh. Really?

Jennifer Hayes (01:44:40.828)
Anger was I think episode five. That's the episode I've gotten the most response to. The most thank yous for is for doing MomRage.

Papa Rick (01:44:51.250)
There you go.

Jennifer Hayes (01:44:52.588)
because it is real.

Papa Rick (01:44:55.858)
Yeah, it's common.

Jennifer Hayes (01:44:58.048)
and it's common and it's, that doesn't, that doesn't, we're also then not justifying yelling or trauma inducing experience or abuse, et cetera, but we are going to normalize the fact that you as a parent are also going to have very big fucking feelings. And here's how we move forward. Here's how we repair. Here's how we stay in connection.

Papa Rick (01:45:03.770)
doesn't make it desirable.

Papa Rick (01:45:17.330)
Yeah, that's what parenting is.

Papa Rick (01:45:23.350)
That's right. That's right. And do better the next time. Get that, get that thought going. Here's the lizard brain feeling that caused me to explode or whatever last time. And now we're not going to do that. Okay. You do it 12 times and eventually you catch one. Hey, I'm getting better at this.

Jennifer Hayes (01:45:28.828)
Yep, so that we don't have long-term effects.

Jennifer Hayes (01:45:45.688)
Yeah. So that's one of my pivots and we're gonna, we're gonna, it's going to be $22 a month.

Papa Rick (01:45:47.592)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:45:50.692)
Cool.

Papa Rick (01:45:53.510)
I was just going to say, so how do you do this? 20 bucks a month. Okay.

Jennifer Hayes (01:45:55.268)
going to be wicked affordable. It's going to be $22 a month. It's going to be a free month if you refer a friend for you and them and it's going to be a discounted if you sign up for a year. It reduces the cost to 20 bucks to 20 bucks a month. And that is going to be a founder's pricing. That price will go up. I have no idea when, but for now it's a founder's pricing.

Papa Rick (01:46:11.590)
Yeah, the annual cost. Okay.

Papa Rick (01:46:23.692)
Okay.

Jennifer Hayes (01:46:26.911)
for at least a year for founders pricing. But yeah, so providing connection, providing a village. It's not just like I'm not just here to like.

Papa Rick (01:46:29.190)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:46:38.068)
sell bullshit. Like I'm creating a company with a purpose. And so I'm, I'm, yeah, I'm going to start a membership community. And if anyone

Papa Rick (01:46:42.250)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:46:48.971)
I like it.

Jennifer Hayes (01:46:54.008)
Yeah, and the podcasts are going to be.

Papa Rick (01:46:54.930)
It's going to be a little smaller. It's not like 2.99 a month, like a, like a, like a phone app that's 2.99, because you're not going to get any personal attention for that. You know, it's not like an app. It's like for 20 bucks a month, you're going to get what the opportunity to. Talk amongst other parents. You've got to, it's kind of like, it sounds to me like kind of a social network with some expectations of how to be.

Jennifer Hayes (01:46:58.708)
What do you mean?

Jennifer Hayes (01:47:24.408)
No.

Papa Rick (01:47:25.050)
You know, you can't be justified or is this just you one on one with you?

Jennifer Hayes (01:47:27.248)
So I, maybe I went through it, maybe I went through it too fast, but I, so.

Papa Rick (01:47:33.450)
Or I might have missed some of it, but yeah. How's it work?

Jennifer Hayes (01:47:36.588)
Yeah, there's gonna be monthly, there's gonna be three to four live events every month where you can attend via Zoom. So three to four live events that'll include workshops, master classes, live Q&As with me. And yeah, so where I'm teaching, where we're going over a topic, there's group coaching.

Papa Rick (01:47:43.695)
Okay.

Papa Rick (01:47:47.658)
Okay.

Papa Rick (01:47:57.132)
your teaching.

Papa Rick (01:48:06.833)
Okay.

Jennifer Hayes (01:48:06.928)
Um, there's this, um, you can schedule one-on-one coaching with me at a discounted rate. If you're inside the membership, you can, um, you get a lower rate on one-on-one coaching. Um, and then there's, and then there's the ability to communicate with members. There's like an ongoing chat.

Papa Rick (01:48:26.430)
Yeah, that's what I was, that's what I was imagining or catching out of what you were saying.

Jennifer Hayes (01:48:29.528)
where people can reach out to each other or they can post a message or a story and people can respond to it or give encouragement. I can go in and give real time advice or tools to use. And then all of those, any workshop, like coaching, conversation, all of it will be recorded and uploaded into a library to access. So you can always go back to

Papa Rick (01:48:58.731)
Oh, yeah, you can definetize them.

Jennifer Hayes (01:48:59.508)
conversation, you can go back and retake a workshop and be like, I need a refresher. Or maybe you couldn't attend the workshop live. You can watch the recording and this library will build every month and it'll all be there forever. So you will have access as long as you are a member, you will have access to everything that's ever created in the membership.

Papa Rick (01:49:16.092)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:49:23.459)
Cool. All right. Good.

Jennifer Hayes (01:49:25.329)
And then you would get discounts on bigger programs and one-on-one coaching as well.

Papa Rick (01:49:32.210)
So, so are you going to moderate this somehow? Is there, cause you'll have just like social media when people post like anonymous comments, it's almost, I mean, the idea of community is almost like it's not 100% anonymous. It's, but you know, who's in the group. It's not like, how do you, when, when Sally comes in and starts ragging on somebody, then somebody needs to go, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, knock that off. And if, and when they don't, then you go.

Jennifer Hayes (01:49:50.268)
Yeah, I wouldn't, it wouldn't be anonymous. The point is, oh yeah, well that would be regulated.

Jennifer Hayes (01:50:00.568)
That's yeah. And that's not what our community is about. The point of this is to create a village. Like here's your village. Um, it takes a village and eventually would hope for it to get big enough where there are multiple people in, in one city or one location where they can find each other and like help each other out or have a fucking potluck or meet up for coffee or whatever.

Papa Rick (01:50:02.150)
Thanks for watching!

Papa Rick (01:50:06.723)
Yeah. Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:50:17.555)
Right.

Papa Rick (01:50:20.010)
Let's have coffee tomorrow. Yep. Yep. That sounds fantastic.

Jennifer Hayes (01:50:30.728)
and stuff that are like, we just moved here, we're looking for friends, but like you don't know what you're getting when you reach out in those groups, you're reaching out to thousands of random people and like, and like, you don't like, you're gonna, how many dates? Cause it's literally like, it's like dating with no one vetting members of these mom groups. And it's like, you don't know who you're gonna meet up with. Like you've no idea.

Papa Rick (01:50:37.650)
Mm-hmm. Exactly.

Papa Rick (01:50:42.910)
You're inviting, yeah.

Papa Rick (01:50:51.670)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Papa Rick (01:50:58.510)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:51:01.428)
And so inside of this membership, it will be a like-minded group of people who are aimed at improving their lives, improving their parenting skills, raising kids without trauma, and being supportive and loving and connected to other parents in the group.

Papa Rick (01:51:13.050)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:51:30.508)
and there's not gonna be anyone posting negative comments or bitching like feedback to me please send me feedback send me feedback uh give me your suggestions like all of those like ask me to do different topics like discussion yes but when a parent posts a vulnerable story and is looking

Papa Rick (01:51:38.010)
Not very often. Yeah, let me know. Ha ha ha.

Jennifer Hayes (01:52:00.788)
Like, we're not going to allow things in the group that are directly against the parenting values we're aiming for. We're not going to treat people like that.

Papa Rick (01:52:07.650)
Exactly. Exactly. Which is, which is the safety kind of thing. It's kind of a, kind of a positive bubble of the kind of, uh, you know, where everybody can model the X the kind of skills, you know, that, that we're looking for here in relational parenting. Yeah. The, there you go. Okay. A supportive bubble and a village, a, a, a, a supportive bubble.

Jennifer Hayes (01:52:13.308)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:52:24.788)
supportive bubble. I don't want to call it a positive bubble because not everything is going to be positive.

Jennifer Hayes (01:52:34.129)
supportive village.

Papa Rick (01:52:37.570)
like that. But it's a, the bubble idea is it's kind of protected. It's kind of safe. It's not just like posting it like we started out with. It's not just throwing it out on Facebook and getting random stuff back. This is a group of people who are all kind of wanting to grow and learn and support each other and have, and there's some accountability. You know, they kind of have to do that or they won't be there long. It's like, you know, cause people will join and they have bad stuff and people are going to get

Jennifer Hayes (01:52:51.796)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:53:07.590)
you know, any kind of genuine, authentic conversation going on. And so there's, there, there will be means to, to keep that under control too. So yeah, no, that sounds, that sounds, uh, that sounds like a perfect application of the internet to a, a, a degradation of society where we don't have communities like we're used to.

Papa Rick (01:53:33.571)
Cool.

Jennifer Hayes (01:53:35.263)
Um...

Jennifer Hayes (01:53:37.828)
So...

Jennifer Hayes (01:53:41.848)
Yeah, so that's the pivot right now. And anyone who is still with us almost two hours in would love what my dog is chasing his tail right now. I'm looking for ideas for what to name the membership community. So relational parenting is what I call my method.

Papa Rick (01:53:52.050)
You'll have to edit this down to a reasonable length.

Papa Rick (01:53:58.670)
Good. Good for him. That's what he's supposed to do.

Papa Rick (01:54:06.950)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (01:54:12.248)
And Jenny B is my company name. J-E-N-N-I-E-B-E-E. Jenny B. And our logo is a bumblebee with a tiara with her hands on her hips. So she's a queen bee.

Papa Rick (01:54:29.810)
Oh, is this a different one than you've got behind your head there?

Papa Rick (01:54:34.250)
Queen B with the hands on the hips. Is that what's behind you? Yeah, that's what I thought. There you go.

Jennifer Hayes (01:54:36.428)
It's... she's right there. She's tiny. Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:54:42.108)
So that's our, so that's, those are my branding, whatever, anyone, if anyone has any ideas, please submit those to me. My email and all of my Facebooks, et cetera, all of my social medias are in the show notes. You can click on any of those and send me a message. Would love to hear from you.

Jennifer Hayes (01:55:06.188)
So that's the membership community. I'm gonna be getting that up and going in the next week or two. Also shoot me a message if you're interested in that and we'll get you a little informational phone call. The other.

Papa Rick (01:55:21.050)
Is this, is this boys and girls? Is this dad's single dads? I tend. Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:55:25.868)
Well, yeah, I would hope so. It's parents and really it's more effective if both parents, if there's more than one, if you're not a single parent, if you have, whether you're co-parenting or you're partnered, like that would be great. If there's step parents, like, and it'll, it's one, it's one like membership access per family. So if mom and dad or mom and mom or dad and dad or whatever combination of humans is joining from the same family,

Papa Rick (01:55:32.671)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:55:37.634)
You know?

Papa Rick (01:55:53.146)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:55:56.368)
of self in my community. That will be another stipulation of safety. We express all, support all expressions of self that do not cause harm. So as long as you are not.

Papa Rick (01:55:58.210)
Yep. Yeah. Got to be supportive. Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:56:09.191)
There you go.

Jennifer Hayes (01:56:13.368)
verbally violent or whatever towards anyone else then you're good. Be nice and loving and you can join my community. So

Papa Rick (01:56:16.411)
Yeah, evil.

Jennifer Hayes (01:56:28.508)
What was I saying? Oh, any whatever combination of parenting that occurs in your household, that membership covers your household. So it's not like each parent has to have their own membership. It's one membership for the household. And...

Jennifer Hayes (01:56:49.088)
Yeah, I would ideally love to, when I was creating the group coaching program, I was very, I would, it would be much more effective if both parents were in attendance and learning and hearing the same things. It's very hard. And I do find it's most often the women in heterosexual marriages that are the ones seeking,

Papa Rick (01:57:04.392)
Yep.

Papa Rick (01:57:07.113)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:57:14.014)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:57:19.008)
things and then trying to convince husband. But if husband would read the books and do the things himself, he would be like, oh yeah, this makes sense. But the mental workload of moms is definitely statistically higher in most households.

Papa Rick (01:57:28.910)
Yep. Everybody's in different places.

Papa Rick (01:57:41.831)
and primary caregiving and all that kind of stuff.

Jennifer Hayes (01:57:45.128)
Um, so getting both parents on board and listening to the workshops and attending the Q and A's and you know, all of that would be a major benefit to your relationship as well as to your children.

Papa Rick (01:57:58.450)
That's right. That's as yeah, talking together and being on the same page. That's there. That's of inestimable value. And I think it pays people who are well less, but people who are thinking about kids thinking, uh, people who have just had a kid.

Jennifer Hayes (01:58:03.208)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:58:17.608)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (01:58:17.750)
part of Lamaze, you know, you might as well get started as soon as you know, you're going to be a parent. Man, that's never too soon to learn, you know.

Jennifer Hayes (01:58:27.048)
Oh yeah, pre-parents are welcome. Um, pre-parents are welcome. I also.

Jennifer Hayes (01:58:37.288)
One of my passions, like I said, is connection. One of my deepest is my deepest value and that includes parental relationships. So there is definitely an element of making sure you have a healthy parental relationship, whether it's a romantically involved partnership or you are separated but co-parenting,

Papa Rick (01:58:47.604)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (01:59:05.570)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:59:07.928)
So there is relational work to be done there that I would love to support as well so that you are giving your kids a good example, a healthy example of a working adult relationship because they're going to mirror those, the way that you treat each other. They're going to mirror that too. Whatever you, however you treat your children directly and however they watch you treat

Papa Rick (01:59:15.450)
to.

Papa Rick (01:59:22.450)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:59:29.192)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (01:59:37.128)
your child's emotional and mental development and how they're going to do it when they're grown. So.

Papa Rick (01:59:39.250)
Yeah, yeah, back to.

Papa Rick (01:59:44.050)
back to teaching in schools. Parents are the major influence. And I have to step away for a minute. I need to go pee. All right.

Jennifer Hayes (01:59:50.548)
Okay, go pee, we'll come back. I'll go pee too.

Jennifer Hayes (01:59:59.131)
Ahem.

Jennifer Hayes (02:02:19.829)
Later.

Jennifer Hayes (02:02:23.708)
Later. Later.

Jennifer Hayes (02:03:07.749)
Coochie Bear.

Papa Rick (02:03:33.671)
Okay, back, sorry.

Papa Rick (02:04:02.791)
Sorry about that.

Jennifer Hayes (02:04:12.708)
It's okay, I needed to go anyway. Um... Okay. Announcement.

Jennifer Hayes (02:04:21.128)
number three, um, as that we did start a Patreon. I don't know why I say we, I started a Patreon for the podcast. Um, because as much as I would love to just say, let's do a free podcast, which I am it's free, but, um, there are lots of costs that go into producing a podcast and, um,

Jennifer Hayes (02:04:51.108)
So yeah, we would love it if you would, anyone who's listening, if you would like to support us and keep us going. We would love to at least offset the cost of the podcast. And so I will be starting, I haven't decided yet if it's going to be two or three brackets of giving. I think I want to do like a five, $5, $7 and $11.

Papa Rick (02:05:16.072)
Hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (02:05:22.268)
The $5 a month contribution to Patreon would be you get a shout out on each episode. The $7, we would add something to that. And then the $11, we would add something else to it. I don't know. So I'm looking for ideas, but a blooper's real or something. I don't know yet. I don't know. But yeah.

Papa Rick (02:05:37.750)
Okay.

Papa Rick (02:05:45.155)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. To work in progress, that's okay.

Jennifer Hayes (02:05:51.108)
would like to contribute to this podcast being able to continue or you just like us and want to support us and want to give a little $5 contribution every month. You can sign up to do that also in the show notes. Click on the Patreon link and sign up for that. We would love you forever. Yeah. And then I just want to remind everybody that I do do a newsletter.

Papa Rick (02:06:12.550)
Cool.

Jennifer Hayes (02:06:22.209)
People who want to be parents someday that want to sign up for the newsletter, you get a parenting tip every week on Sundays.

Jennifer Hayes (02:06:35.188)
I'm just now having an epiphany that I should change that newsletter time because I never write it on Sundays. And then Sunday comes around and I feel stressed out. So I'm going to change that, but I don't know what I'm going to change it to yet. But anyway, sign up for the newsletter. You get it once a week. It's got a useful actionable parenting tip or parenting support message in there. Sign up for that.

Papa Rick (02:07:02.890)
something practical. Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (02:07:05.108)
Also, that's another way to get discounts on new programs or whatever you'll get. There will be offers to sign up for things first and get discounts, lower pricing, early bird, all of that, that you won't get anywhere else unless you're in the membership. So membership newsletter, earn discounts, contribute to our Patreon.

Jennifer Hayes (02:07:34.908)
to help us keep going. And let me see. This is my paper is like, there's no organizational strategy.

Papa Rick (02:07:44.650)
stream of consciousness. That's how everything starts.

Jennifer Hayes (02:07:46.388)
the upstream of consciousness.

Jennifer Hayes (02:07:51.008)
Hoo.

Papa Rick (02:07:52.250)
except emotions. Emotions are a lizard brain. They have no consciousness.

Jennifer Hayes (02:07:54.428)
Yeah, send us, that was the other thing I wanted to request. We've mentioned a couple of times that we would love to have questions from parents specifically in order to like do podcast episodes based on those questions, or at least answer, like we could answer several questions inside of one podcast episode. And so from here on out, the podcast is gonna be every other week, we're gonna have a guest.

Papa Rick (02:08:14.055)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (02:08:17.571)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (02:08:24.728)
We've got guests planned out through almost the end of the year. I actually only have two slots left for guests. So that's awesome. So there's lots of parenting experts coming your way. So please contribute to our Patreon so we can afford it. We've got medical, we've got doctors, we have counselors, we have just other parents

Papa Rick (02:08:30.491)
Wow.

Papa Rick (02:08:40.970)
in all kinds of fields, I imagine. Education, educators and yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (02:08:54.428)
just normal parents, but who are also in the like conscious parenting community. And they've started their own businesses doing things. Like next week, we have Megan, who started her own clothing line, kids clothing line and mindful, mindful kids book that I've pre-ordered and that I'm really sad won't be here until after that we do that until after we record

Papa Rick (02:09:00.460)
Hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (02:09:24.848)
Um, but she, yeah, she's amazing. She's fantastic. She's like doing all of the things. Um, her biggest message is, um, words have power. Um, and so her aim, her focus is like the words that we use raise our children. Um, and so that's going to be really cool conversation next week, but then every other week, it'll just be you and me, dad.

Papa Rick (02:09:39.174)
Yes.

Papa Rick (02:09:46.492)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (02:09:50.691)
Very much.

Jennifer Hayes (02:09:55.088)
either topics about on relational parenting or we'll be taking parents who write in. You can email me, you can DM me on social media and I will gather those questions and topics and or stories. And depending on how many we get, we could do a bunch inside of one episode or we could

Papa Rick (02:10:18.070)
That sounds great.

Jennifer Hayes (02:10:24.508)
story a whole episode. The world is our oyster, but we want to hear from you guys. We want to know what parents want to hear about.

Papa Rick (02:10:29.012)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (02:10:33.250)
what the interest is, yeah, or what the current, current, you know, things change too. And so as stuff becomes topical, you know, to get a hit of that, cool.

Jennifer Hayes (02:10:34.871)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (02:10:40.529)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (02:10:44.408)
Well, because I could come up with topics all day to just be like...

Jennifer Hayes (02:10:50.228)
I mean, I've been doing it. I've been raising kids for 20 years. Like I could come up with stuff all day to feed you guys, but I wanna know what do you actually wanna know? What are you actually dealing with in your home? Like what are you actually working on with your kids? What are you struggling with with your own kids? What are you like, whether it's your struggle or their struggle, like send us your questions. We'll answer them. If you wanna remain anonymous, just put a little note in there that's like, please don't say my name or whatever.

Papa Rick (02:11:19.972)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (02:11:21.729)
And we won't like we can keep you completely anonymous Yeah, but I want to hear from you guys I want to know I want to know and guarantee you Whatever you're struggling with there are hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of other parents struggling with that too. And so Submit your questions submit your stories and

Papa Rick (02:11:39.635)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (02:11:47.228)
we will answer them on air. So let's see.

Papa Rick (02:11:51.090)
There's probably nothing that you couldn't build a community out of.

Jennifer Hayes (02:11:55.950)
Right.

Papa Rick (02:11:56.890)
Controversial hard topics, we probably ought to start taking a look at those, you know. Money, politics, sex.

Jennifer Hayes (02:12:06.060)
Mm.

Papa Rick (02:12:06.592)
um you know real challenges with uh

Papa Rick (02:12:12.030)
with parenting, with raising kids, raising other human beings.

Jennifer Hayes (02:12:18.208)
Right.

Papa Rick (02:12:19.590)
There's the normal stuff, but then...

Papa Rick (02:12:26.930)
Some stuff may not have any answers. We'll just try to discuss different sides of it, all the sides of it. And so everybody's a little better informed, a little thought, no thought food.

Jennifer Hayes (02:12:38.413)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (02:12:40.870)
get people disagreeing. Maybe we should maybe we should start saying things we know people will disagree with.

Papa Rick (02:12:48.350)
just to generate the controversy.

Jennifer Hayes (02:12:51.488)
I mean, I'm sure we've already said lots of things that some people disagree with.

Papa Rick (02:12:54.950)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Jennifer Hayes (02:12:57.748)
Otherwise everybody would be doing it.

Papa Rick (02:13:00.787)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (02:13:04.119)
Um...

Papa Rick (02:13:04.930)
Yeah, because I said so. There will be a because I said so crowd.

Jennifer Hayes (02:13:10.150)
ma'am.

Jennifer Hayes (02:13:13.469)
Yup. Yup, yup, yup.

Jennifer Hayes (02:13:18.368)
So many things. Well.

Jennifer Hayes (02:13:23.208)
two hours and 15 minutes depending on how much of this I decide to cut. But I don't think I want to cut anything. I think that...

Papa Rick (02:13:29.570)
Oh my God. Ha ha ha ha ha.

Jennifer Hayes (02:13:36.568)
You know, I've been really...

Jennifer Hayes (02:13:40.808)
I don't even know that I want to say I've been soul searching. I've just been sad and struggling for two weeks. Um, and there've been just little tiny pockets of like figuring out what the next steps are. And.

Jennifer Hayes (02:13:59.148)
Maybe I've gotten some clarity or maybe I've just...

Jennifer Hayes (02:14:08.428)
Put down.

Jennifer Hayes (02:14:11.689)
My armor.

Papa Rick (02:14:14.770)
You're settling into it, maybe.

Jennifer Hayes (02:14:16.049)
of trying to be something, trying to present a certain way so that people listen or trust or...

Jennifer Hayes (02:14:30.208)
I don't see me as a professional or whatever. And today I went to like put makeup on and stuff for the podcast. And I put like, I made sure I had eyebrows and I put on a little mascara, but like that's it. Um, because I, I'm on day three of my period and I feel like shit today. So the COVID, COVID ended my period started and here we are. Um, so.

Papa Rick (02:14:49.550)
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Papa Rick (02:14:56.473)
Well, you've also another way to look at it might be you looked at it as you had a couple of weeks where you weren't driving towards one goal. You just had a chance to think.

Jennifer Hayes (02:15:08.828)
Yeah, but I, there was a lot of.

Jennifer Hayes (02:15:14.728)
There was a lot of forced sleep and just brain fog where I literally couldn't think straight or the moment that I could think straight, I was just a bundle of anxiety. So that's what I'm saying is like, I didn't have two weeks to kind of sit around and contemplate. There was very little time. There were very little pockets. And usually if I'm sick or I'm down for that long or whatever, it is the brain break that I need to...

Papa Rick (02:15:17.490)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (02:15:24.800)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (02:15:30.770)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (02:15:43.048)
figure out a problem or whatever. But in there, there, to my, you know, there was no problem that I was trying to figure out. I was just trying to not die. I was just surviving. And so it wasn't, it was all like, it was just the building of anxiety every time I had to cancel a phone call or an interview or whatever. And like, and the, the lack of brain space

Papa Rick (02:15:44.734)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (02:15:52.330)
Yeah, yeah, good goal, good goal.

Papa Rick (02:16:05.070)
Yeah, yeah.

Jennifer Hayes (02:16:13.168)
and feeling like everything was falling apart because I was just trying to survive every and not like die. So whatever has happened has happened and we are headed in a different direction right now. And I also think that there, I had this thought just now, like when we went to the bathroom and I had this thought of like, I don't.

Papa Rick (02:16:20.250)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (02:16:22.614)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (02:16:38.133)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (02:16:46.569)
I don't ever.

Jennifer Hayes (02:16:51.648)
want to take for granted another day where I am fully capable.

Jennifer Hayes (02:17:02.048)
mentally and physically of making life good. And that to me is doing the fucking workout that makes me feel fantastic instead of talking myself out of it for 800 reasons. Eating and cooking, cooking instead of ordering out.

Papa Rick (02:17:21.713)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (02:17:30.168)
because I actually enjoy cooking and I make really good food and I make really healthy food and that healthy food makes me feel really good about myself and makes my body feel really good. But it takes time and it takes energy and it takes, and like all of the ADHD stuff that I struggle with every day sucks. And I get brain fog and I get distracted and I get, it's really hard for me

stick to a task list and a calendar and a routine and blah, blah, blah. But like the level of dead and incapable that I was when I had COVID.

Jennifer Hayes (02:18:15.408)
I don't know. It was like, okay, it could be so much worse. Like look at how look at how capable you actually are on a day to day basis.

Papa Rick (02:18:19.650)
There's a...

Papa Rick (02:18:24.872)
There's like a Greek term for that. That's like a mini awareness of your mortality thing, brush with mortality. And I look up the term I'm thinking of.

Jennifer Hayes (02:18:33.428)
Yeah. It's like a, it's just like a perspective thing of like.

Papa Rick (02:18:37.610)
Satori realization

Jennifer Hayes (02:18:41.348)
Yeah. Well, it's like when you had your stroke and it would just like snapped you out of the funk that you had been in for like 10 years. And it's not.

Papa Rick (02:18:44.150)
Hmm.

Papa Rick (02:18:47.551)
A little bit of a wake up call. Yeah? Yeah?

Papa Rick (02:18:58.770)
You have a finite amount of time to figure things out. No point in standing in one place too long.

Jennifer Hayes (02:19:05.568)
And I just don't like you, like, yeah, I kind of feel like it was just like a take, like I had been taking for granted how capable.

Jennifer Hayes (02:19:18.648)
I was, even when it felt hard, when life felt hard, I was still like, I had my body and my mind and my health, and then all of that was taken away for two weeks. And it was like, the minute I get out of this bed, I've got a world to conquer.

Papa Rick (02:19:35.950)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (02:19:45.550)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hayes (02:19:46.928)
Like, it was, it was like, it was like, man, maybe that was the fucking point of it. Maybe we're, see, I didn't understand it. I'd been sitting around on it for two weeks, not dying. And I'm processing it out loud now with the whole fucking world. Like, maybe I was taking my life for granted or something. Maybe I was being a lazy piece of shit. And then my, and then COVID came along. It was like.

Papa Rick (02:19:52.150)
Hmm.

Papa Rick (02:19:57.179)
Takes a while to process.

Jennifer Hayes (02:20:16.028)
No, this is what it would look like if you actually weren't capable of doing any of those things. So stop it and go do the things.

Papa Rick (02:20:21.550)
Yeah, yeah, trying different explanations.

Papa Rick (02:20:31.550)
Sounds good. Sounds good. Sounds growth oriented. All right. Changing a little bit. Seeing what feels good. Seeing how to accomplish, you know, how many failures they say you're starting a business. Not really about the business side, but you got to do what works and figure out what works and you got to learn to fail and move on. And you know, that's, uh, that's the way it works is. And he gave you some time to think.