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Welcome to The B2B CMO Podcast, a show for marketing executives who are redefining what it means to be a strategic leader. Join Jon Miller and Sydney Sloan every week as they talk with the very best Chief Marketing Officers who are navigating the modern marketing playbook and positioning themselves as strategic leaders.
Each episode, we unpack what it really takes to lead through complexity, earn trust at the strategy table, and shape the future of growth.
We’re building the community, research, and frameworks CMOs need to reclaim their strategic role and drive sustainable growth.
For more marketing leadership resources, visit [b2bcmoproject.com](http://b2bcmoproject.com/).
B2B CMO - 007 - Amy Cook
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[00:00:00]
Jon Miller: [00:00:05] [00:00:10] [00:00:15] [00:00:20] Hello and welcome everyone to [00:00:25] today's episode of the B2B CMO Project podcast. I'm Jon [00:00:30] Miller, and as always, I am joined by my co-host Sydney Sloan, our spec. Hello. Hello. [00:00:35] Today our special guest is Amy Cook, who is the co-founder [00:00:40] and the CMO of Full Cast. I'll let her briefly tell you what that is.
Jon Miller: Um, [00:00:45] as someone who's been a co-founder and CMO before that is near and dear to my heart. Uh, [00:00:50] she's also worked at, uh, at as a CMO at companies like Simplest Pathology [00:00:55] Watch and nClouds. Um, but what I think is kind of most interesting about her [00:01:00] background is that she has a PhD in communication. Uh, and that she uses that [00:01:05] PhD to teach, uh, at various number of universities.
Jon Miller: So, [00:01:10] uh, Amy, welcome so much. Thank you for, for joining us today.
Amy Cook: Thank you so much for [00:01:15] having me. I've been really excited about this and I love what you and Sydney are [00:01:20] doing with the B2B CMO organization and it's an honor to be [00:01:25] here.
Jon Miller: We really do feel like there was a, a gap in the market and a need for CMOs to, [00:01:30] especially CMOs at larger companies to network and find support and resources to help [00:01:35] each other. Um, you are one of the B2B CMO project 100 [00:01:40] honorees, so congratulations for that.
Amy Cook: Thank you so much. That was such a surprise, and [00:01:45] I was so thrilled, and it was quite an honor. So thank you
Amy Cook: very much.
Jon Miller: And you're in great [00:01:50] company with 99 other truly stellar CMOs. Um, so let's [00:01:55] kick things off as we usually do, it's just about getting to know you a little bit. Um, [00:02:00] you know, we always like to sort of say like in the superhero movies, like what's your origin story? How did you get [00:02:05] from the beginning to being the co-founder and also [00:02:10] CMO of an enterprise company?
Amy Cook: Well, thank you so much. I, um, it [00:02:15] depends on where we start, is the origin story. I, very early on, I grew [00:02:20] up in an entertainment family and people who are [00:02:25] about 50 and older may know the Osmonds and, um, Donnie and Marie [00:02:30] Osmond. I grew up performing on stage. I did 12 shows a [00:02:35] week. Um, and so it was a lot of fun.
Jon Miller: So wait, sorry. Were you part of the Osmonds?
Amy Cook: [00:02:40] Yeah.
Sydney Sloan: Her middle. Yeah, her maiden name is Osmond.
Jon Miller: that's fascinating.
Sydney Sloan: so [00:02:45] my daughter goes to the University of Utah, she's an intern for us and I told her we were on and I'm like, you know the Osmonds [00:02:50] and she's like in her twenties. And so I got to dis, I was like, I introduced you to Daughter Marie yesterday. [00:02:55] Anyway, so I'm so glad you answered that.
Sydney Sloan: 'cause I had no idea and I was curious.
Amy Cook: Oh yeah,
Sydney Sloan: yes. That is so [00:03:00] cool.
Amy Cook: you. You know when you're a kid and you're like living in this shadow of. [00:03:05] You know, people who seem larger than life sometimes you're like, well, [00:03:10] what's my identity? Right. So I kind of went through that a little early. Mm-hmm. Um, and as I've [00:03:15] gotten older, I've realized like what an incredible opportunity it was for me to understand [00:03:20] brand and PR and events [00:03:25] and entertainment.
Amy Cook: I grew up with it my whole entire life. And then I started, [00:03:30] as I got into marketing, I started realizing that there were some things that. Seemed like [00:03:35] very obvious to me, that weren't obvious to other people. And it was, I realized it was because of the way that [00:03:40] I was raised. Um, it also gave me a couple of really strong, [00:03:45] um, mantras to live by.
Amy Cook: The first one was the show must go on, right? [00:03:50] So there's, when you've got an event, there's nothing you can do. Um, [00:03:55] that was lived very, very literally with my family. I [00:04:00] remember one time my uncle Jay. Got his nose broken by my uncle Alan in a [00:04:05] karate, um, sequence on stage. Jay got off. [00:04:10] Vanish his nose and went right back on five minutes later.
Amy Cook: And so that, that ethic is important [00:04:15] to me. Um, the show must go on was the first one and the second one was, [00:04:20] um, you're only as good as your last show. So that also is very [00:04:25] relevant to B2B marketers right now. And, you know, especially as everything is [00:04:30] changing, it's a, it's a really important, um, thing for me to live by.
Amy Cook: [00:04:35] So, uh, basically. To continue that story, I decided to go to college instead [00:04:40] of continue on in the family business. And I started, um, doing [00:04:45] whatever I could. I had some marketing jobs in at first, and then I stayed home and raised [00:04:50] children for a few years and, um. My husband [00:04:55] got a job with Lehman Brothers one month before they went bankrupt.
Amy Cook: So [00:05:00] all of a sudden we had four little kids at the time, and Jeff was like, oh [00:05:05] no. And we had, we were in California and it was very expensive and you know, kids [00:05:10] gotta eat right? And so I was like, all right, well what? Obviously I've gotta go [00:05:15] back to work. One day Jeff came to me and he was like, Amy. [00:05:20] I've got a $10,000 tax return.
Amy Cook: Let's split it and see who [00:05:25] can make the most money. And I was like, okay, can I start a business [00:05:30] with it? He is like, do whatever you want with it. I'm gonna put mine in real estate. And so [00:05:35] I took that $5,000 seed money and I started just trying to go out and get [00:05:40] jobs. And so I would reach out. I reached out to my friends who own businesses and I was like, can I [00:05:45] write for you?
Amy Cook: Because I had, as John mentioned, a PhD in communication and was an [00:05:50] academic writer earlier in my career. And so I started writing and they were like, oh. Well, you [00:05:55] can write, but can you design, can you do websites? And I was like, oh, [00:06:00] sure, no problem. Of course I couldn't do them. So I'm like, okay, who can I get on my team?
Amy Cook: [00:06:05] So the business developed very organically and after about, you know, five [00:06:10] or six years, it was, it was a legitimate business. And then I started doing some [00:06:15] fractional CMO work. Um, and what the first one was a company [00:06:20] called Simplus, uh, Ryan Westwood. I was his vendor and we were [00:06:25] doing some like ghost writing together for some Forbes articles.
Amy Cook: And he mentioned that [00:06:30] he needed a head of marketing and I was like, oh, please, please choose me [00:06:35] because I needed, even though I was running an agency, I didn't know very much about like how to really. [00:06:40] Do marketing from within a company, how to work with other departments, and there was a [00:06:45] lot I needed to learn.
Amy Cook: And so I was super grateful for that opportunity that he gave me. [00:06:50] So we took that from 2017 series A to 2020, uh, when it was acquired by [00:06:55] Infosys. I stayed on with Infosys for a couple of years to, um, and, [00:07:00] and led the Salesforce marketing practice over there. I decided to do [00:07:05] it again, um, with a company called Pathology Watch.
Amy Cook: Um, it was a digital [00:07:10] health, uh, tech group, and so we took that through acquisition and did it one more time with a [00:07:15] company called, uh, onboard, and that was acquired by Conservis. And then I sold my agency [00:07:20] and, uh, Ryan, my, my old boss vendor [00:07:25] friend, um, called me up one day and said, Hey, I wanna do this again.[00:07:30]
Amy Cook: Let's do something cool again and will you come on and be my co-founder. And I was [00:07:35] like completely honored. I was very happy that after working with me for that many years, he still [00:07:40] wanted to work with me. And so we decided to start full cast. And this [00:07:45] time with Full Cast, we decided to, simplest was a services company, sales, um, [00:07:50] partnership, Salesforce partnership, and um, full cast is all about the technology [00:07:55] for sales.
Amy Cook: Uh, so we do, um, annual planning, technology [00:08:00] forecasting technology and commissions technology, all in one platform.
Jon Miller: And it seems like you've had really good [00:08:05] growth, uh, since you started the company.
Amy Cook: Have. Yes. Thank you for asking. [00:08:10] So, um, in the past 24 months, we've grown 900% and we're [00:08:15] really thrilled about that. And, and we're looking to, uh, right now as everyone [00:08:20] is, we're doing a lot with ai. We're replatforming some of our SaaS product on [00:08:25] ai and, um, just trying to adapt
Jon Miller: Yep. Well, we're definitely gonna get into that. Um, [00:08:30] one last kind of setup question, like what, what do you, what do you study when you get a PhD in [00:08:35] communications? Like, what do you learn.
Amy Cook: That's a great [00:08:40] question. So for me, you can go a lot of direct different directions, but for me, I [00:08:45] chose organizational rhetoric. So my dissertation was on, actually on [00:08:50] a polygamous cult in Utah, and it was a, my [00:08:55] thesis question was. How did the rhetoric of this [00:09:00] organization convince people to act against their own self-interest?[00:09:05]
Amy Cook: And so that was kind of the, the basis of that, um, organizational rhetoric. I took more of a [00:09:10] classical approach. I did a lot of Aristotelian rhetoric and, um. It [00:09:15] combines a lot of, uh, it combines some psychology research and some [00:09:20] organizational behavior, some communications, some English, some philosophy, [00:09:25] and so that was a really fun liberal degree and [00:09:30] lots to talk about.
Sydney Sloan: So it's, um, I, I have two, two [00:09:35] thoughts. First of all, on your, on your, your last story, it was like, okay, your third [00:09:40] mantra then is fake it until you make it. I just had to add that one for you.
Amy Cook: I love that one and I [00:09:45] learned that.
Sydney Sloan: I take that one too.
Amy Cook: I love that one. You're I think we all do that
Amy Cook: Well, we, [00:09:50] we do. And you know what's funny is, uh, I was watching this video from, um, Richard Branson [00:09:55] and he said his number one piece of advice for business owners is always say [00:10:00] yes. Always say yes, and then figure it out. And so,
Amy Cook: yeah,
Sydney Sloan: then figure it out. [00:10:05] That's so good. And then the other thing is just a very interesting analogy. So our last [00:10:10] podcast was Wendy White from Daxko and her original job was a [00:10:15] propaganda strategist for the army. But when you think about the psychological and, [00:10:20] and even Brian Law, we talked about that too.
Sydney Sloan: It's just so interesting. The, the, what you see, the [00:10:25] similarity line and kind of the backgrounds of some of these super successful CMOs is really like [00:10:30] understanding people,
Sydney Sloan: right? Like really getting in. Into the, [00:10:35] yeah.
Amy Cook: Absolutely. Yeah. So like my degree organizational rhetoric fundamentally is how do [00:10:40] organizations persuade? There could not be a better marketing degree, but what's ironic is I never [00:10:45] took a marketing class. I wasn't in the business. I, I didn't come in through the business program. [00:10:50] I came in through the communications program and so I have kind of a, a different [00:10:55] bent on marketing than some others do that come in through business.
Amy Cook: And so [00:11:00] that's a really great
Amy Cook: point, Sydney.
Jon Miller: Actually, and I think it's a really interesting, you know, point about how [00:11:05] marketing is changing even, you know, 'cause I obviously took a very different route into marketing. I [00:11:10] studied physics for my undergraduate degree. And I would say, you know, I think a lot of the [00:11:15] last 20 years of marketing, you know, bringing math [00:11:20] and analytics to the table mattered, right?
Jon Miller: As we sort of tune funnels and [00:11:25] optimize journeys and all that. But that's become, I think, less and less part of what modern marketing is, [00:11:30] and especially as AI is changing things. I think understanding people and behaviors and [00:11:35] psychology matters more than ever. So it's not surprising that these strategic CMOs that we're bringing to [00:11:40] the table have that background.
Amy Cook: That's so interesting you mentioned that. So John, with your physics [00:11:45] background, I'm imagining you leaned a lot more into the analytics piece of it [00:11:50] and, and the math, is
Amy Cook: that right? Yeah, and I think that was useful in the old [00:11:55] playbook and it's not quite as useful today.
Amy Cook: Yeah, it's so [00:12:00] interesting. Matthew Prince actually came out, he's this, uh, CEO of CloudFlare. He came [00:12:05] out with a really interesting article yesterday about why he is letting go [00:12:10] 20% of his team, and he, he categorized people into either [00:12:15] seller builders, sellers, or. [00:12:20] It was like managers helpers, right? Um, and he measurers, that was the word [00:12:25] he used, measurers.
Amy Cook: And he said that most of the people that he cut were measurers [00:12:30] because, and, and he mentioned marketing analytics as one piece of it. He's like, AI should be [00:12:35] able to do all of this. And so when we think about how marketing is changing, [00:12:40] it doesn't mean we're getting rid of our marketing analytics people.
Amy Cook: What it does mean is that we will [00:12:45] probably need to. Augment what they're doing with [00:12:50] ai and we can do that. And so I think what's going to be prized in marketing moving [00:12:55] forward is that storytelling is the creativity piece of it that AI [00:13:00] cannot reproduce.
Sydney Sloan: Yeah. And when we were looking, so one of the, the, [00:13:05] the missions behind the B2B CMO project is how do we remain strategic? [00:13:10] How do we keep our seat at the table and influence on the strategy, especially in these [00:13:15] larger companies? And our research found that, you know, there was a lot of [00:13:20] relationship building with the. And how do, how do you make sure that you're a [00:13:25] trusted peer? Um, and talked a lot about, uh, the [00:13:30] ability to build brand and the role AI plays. And so as you think about, and you [00:13:35] work with CMOs all the time, like what do you think makes A-C-M-O-A [00:13:40] strategic CMO.
Amy Cook: I really love this question and I wanna ask you also Sydnee like how [00:13:45] did you come up through marketing? Did you go through the business angle or did you go through a [00:13:50] comms angle or, or how did you do that?
Sydney Sloan: Um, so it's, uh, thank you for [00:13:55] asking Amy. Um, so I, I went to business school and I went to the entrepreneur [00:14:00] program and my plan was to run an events company. So I got a top 10 [00:14:05] plan at USC for invention, which was an event planning company. And I'd been [00:14:10] interning. And so I came through the events angle, um, and.
Sydney Sloan: [00:14:15] That's, I ended up working for Special Events magazine and, and some event planners in la and then I [00:14:20] ended up taking an events job in a tech company, and I think what made the pivot [00:14:25] was my curiosity for the customer. Um, and so I didn't just plan [00:14:30] events. I would go to trade shows and, and when we were doing user conferences, I'd prep everybody.
Sydney Sloan: And so I [00:14:35] really ended up getting to know the customer. And so when we'd have meetings, somebody else at the table would say [00:14:40] something and be like, no, no, I talked to this customer or this customer. And so they put me in product marketing. So my [00:14:45] career was more in the product side, um, [00:14:50] before becoming A-A-C-M-O.
Amy Cook: That's so interesting. And that's like, speaks exactly to [00:14:55] the question you just asked me. How do we be strategic? Right. So my, my like [00:15:00] ta like, my basic answer is you get as close to revenue as you possibly can, right? [00:15:05] And so, like, if that is, you know, asking for [00:15:10] more customer work, right? If that's asking for, [00:15:15] um.
Amy Cook: The, the entire pipeline number to report on in your executive meetings, [00:15:20] if that is taking on partnerships as well and, and alliances and pull tucking [00:15:25] it into the CMO? Um, you know, I think that it really just [00:15:30] depends on each organization and how it's structured. But I would say like for, for [00:15:35] us, we have the opportunity right now as marketers to be the most [00:15:40] flexible.
Amy Cook: The most technical and the most strategic in the C-Suite. In my opinion, [00:15:45] everything is changing and we are so adaptable, generally speaking as [00:15:50] CMOs, because we've had to be. Right. In the last 10 years, B2B CMOs have had to take on [00:15:55] portions of it, portions of analytics. We have to know the math, we have to [00:16:00] know the science.
Amy Cook: We have to know the art. And so for us to be able to like, I [00:16:05] really believe that this is our time as marketers to become like [00:16:10] the most valued and most trusted person on the C-suite. And [00:16:15] that's because we are so flexible. So if we can show that, you know, we also [00:16:20] have, what's ironic to me is even though we're experts at brand, CMOs kind of [00:16:25] have a perception problem in some ways, right?
Amy Cook: A lot of people say, oh, marketers, [00:16:30] oh, marketers, everybody gets rid of marketing first, right? Oh, marketer, they're on kind of on the [00:16:35] outside. They're not really central to revenue. And so I think that our goal [00:16:40] should be. Showcasing ourselves as well as our [00:16:45] brand because we have to, you know, for, for the company to do really well, they need [00:16:50] to know what we can do and they need to be able to, um, access all of the value that we can [00:16:55] offer.
Sydney Sloan: Yeah, there are two things that I loved what you said in there. One was, [00:17:00] um, building in the alliance ecosystem, and it's, it's been, uh, [00:17:05] something that I'm a big believer of. And there was a movement at one time that we would call ourselves chief [00:17:10] market officers and not marketing. And, and what I loved about that is, yes, we [00:17:15] can be the expert in the market.
Sydney Sloan: We can, we can. Influence and own the [00:17:20] ecosystem, which is our partner network, to be able to tell a stronger [00:17:25] story through and with our partners and, and weave them in and create unique differentiation [00:17:30] even through that. So I think that is definitely a strategic approach in, you know, how to [00:17:35] take on more responsibility.
Sydney Sloan: And then I a hundred percent agree with. You know, owning [00:17:40] pipeline and whether, you know, sourced influence, marketing, you know, inbound, outbound, whatever. Just, [00:17:45] just report own and report on that and care deeply. That is what you wake up every day [00:17:50] thinking about. And I think I agree with you that will definitely, um, move you into a more [00:17:55] strategic position and partnership with the CRO, but you also touched on like technical [00:18:00] and, um, and so I wanted like poke at the ai, you know, our [00:18:05] ability to be early adopters and showcasing, um, our [00:18:10] technical strength. And so when you think about AI specifically and [00:18:15] um, and the shift in, uh, buyers and this whole [00:18:20] notion of, um, the answer engine, like how, how are you.[00:18:25]
Sydney Sloan: Um, positioning the AI [00:18:30] voice as a proxy for brand and, and influence now that buyers have [00:18:35] completely shifted in the way that they choose to engage with companies.
Amy Cook: [00:18:40] That's a really great question. So, um, some, if you look at the [00:18:45] research, the most recent research, a lot of the most cited, uh, [00:18:50] are LinkedIn, but it's the individual profiles, not the company brands that they're [00:18:55] lifting for this. So that's why I think also that CMOs have, uh, like an [00:19:00] obligation to the companies to become thought leaders themselves because of [00:19:05] that and, and to help the C-Suite do that because, um, you know, that's one of the best ways we can get the.[00:19:10]
Amy Cook: Syringe engine op, you know, to cite our brand is through our individual LinkedIn [00:19:15] profiles. Um, YouTube is another one that is cited so much and [00:19:20] also Reddit. And I have to be honest, I have not done a lot with Reddit and so guess [00:19:25] who's got a new ad campaign going on Reddit right now? Because we have to, [00:19:30] right?
Amy Cook: We have to be in the areas that are, that we're, um, that a EO is [00:19:35] citing. And I will say also, um, we acquired copy.ai [00:19:40] in October. And that was an awesome opportunity for us. It, [00:19:45] even though our core value proposition is planned to pay, um, on the sales [00:19:50] technology side, being able to access copy AI's advanced workflows has been fundamentally [00:19:55] life changing for us and has enabled us to build the AI technology really quickly.
Amy Cook: Uh, we [00:20:00] also just, um, produced an a EO module through [00:20:05] copy ai that allows us to build content specifically for answer [00:20:10] engines. And so. I've been using that in-house as I've been [00:20:15] co-developing it with our developer and then, uh, testing it on our own platform. [00:20:20] And since we started using copy ai, um, we were able to, [00:20:25] um, increase our productivity 10 x while eliminating [00:20:30] about 300 K in salary.
Amy Cook: And, um, we, we've shot up [00:20:35] in our a EO visibility, so being able to understand strategically like [00:20:40] how to do that, how to. How to track for it. It's like the early days of SEO where [00:20:45] you can make change, like you can have changing, like changing algorithms [00:20:50] daily, and you can actually adapt to those algorithms daily and see immediate results.
Amy Cook: So [00:20:55] I think I, that's a long answer for make sure you have the right technology, make sure you've [00:21:00] got the right brand. Make sure that you've got your plan in place, but [00:21:05] the fundamentals are gonna be the same. I mean, a markdown is fundamentally the same [00:21:10] as a, as an outline, right? That you learn how. To do in high school.
Amy Cook: And so being able to [00:21:15] translate that, um, from, you know, our SEO language to our a EO [00:21:20] languages is fundamentally the same. If you look at, like, Google just came out with our, um, a EO [00:21:25] optimization guideline about five days ago. Uh, and I read through it and it [00:21:30] it, it's gonna be such a, a ww for you guys because it's just, it, [00:21:35] it's very much the same.
Amy Cook: It's like, right. Well. Develop a good brand, [00:21:40] make sure you organize your, you know, answers. And then they did things like write [00:21:45] short sentences, do lots of bullet points, you know, so,
Sydney Sloan: Yeah, that doesn't sound very good.
Amy Cook: but there's [00:21:50] nothing,
Amy Cook: there's nothing in it that's like, Yeah.
Amy Cook: there's nothing like, oh my gosh, [00:21:55] you should, you should make sure that your schema markup is, is like, you know, [00:22:00] in this certain place or contextual.
Amy Cook: It's Right.
Sydney Sloan: So I can say [00:22:05] though that, um, so I'll, I'll just do a plug for one of our sponsors, uh, because they built the Webflow [00:22:10] built a really great tool to do that. Um, so if anybody that's listening, uh, [00:22:15] it's uh, webflow.com/solutions/ae, um, [00:22:20] and I recommend that to everybody. Like go have it look at your website and it will give you like step-by-step [00:22:25] instructions in order to how to, to optimize that.
Sydney Sloan: So apparently better you can compare it to the, the [00:22:30] Google one and I think you'll
Sydney Sloan: find can, and, and I, I actually am talking to Dave right now [00:22:35] about syncing up his a EO, um, to product, to [00:22:40] what we're doing on the constant creation side. So it's, it's pretty exciting [00:22:45] times and uh, I totally agree with that. Like having those tools to be able to access [00:22:50] what Google is doing and be able to act, make it actionable is super fundamental.
Sydney Sloan: Yeah. [00:22:55] And um, Amy, just since you're also the co-founder, if you, your team hasn't yet, [00:23:00] I would also recommend they look at the knowledge base and maybe copy AI can do that too. And like, [00:23:05] how do you, how do you take the knowledge base and write it in natural language and FAQ [00:23:10] style formats and open that up too.
Sydney Sloan: 'cause that's usually a huge unlock for, for a EO.
Amy Cook: so we actually [00:23:15] built that into the technology to be able to answer that. Great. Great [00:23:20] Awesome. Sorry we went down a
Jon Miller: no, it's good. Yeah. But.
Amy Cook: this is really.
Sydney Sloan: back [00:23:25] up.
Jon Miller: A EO is, is tactical, but also strategic, [00:23:30] but to, you know, bring it back to the strategic at the highest level. You know, I think a topic [00:23:35] that we've touched on slightly, but every CMO cares about is measurement and metrics. Um, [00:23:40] I think, you know, the metrics that we've used in the past have, like [00:23:45] MQs have actually, I think, come to harm us.
Jon Miller: That was one of the things that came out of the research that we did. [00:23:50] And you, you know, uh, you know, with your focus on rev ops, uh, you, you think [00:23:55] a lot about, you know, metrics and what the CRO and the COO need and all that [00:24:00] kind of thing. So what, what, how are you evolving your [00:24:05] marketing metrics? You know, to speak to the rest of the C-Suite, to be more [00:24:10] strategic, to adjust to the new age of ai, et cetera.
Amy Cook: [00:24:15] Well, it's a really great question because, um, we have, you know, when [00:24:20] you're reporting your metrics in your executive meeting, there are a few fundamentals [00:24:25] that they wanna see, right? And. There were, [00:24:30] there was a movement to have. Um, a couple of the executives were like, why are you not reporting on the [00:24:35] mql, Amy?
Amy Cook: And I said, because it's pipeline that matters, not the [00:24:40] mql. I'm happy to do marketing sourced pipeline. I'm happy to do marketing influence [00:24:45] pipeline, but I don't want you, and I said this obviously, like [00:24:50] in a different way, but I don't want people. Telling me [00:24:55] that I am doing funny math because I have to change the [00:25:00] definition of an MQL as I'm adjusting what's coming in and what's coming out, right?
Amy Cook: The [00:25:05] pipeline number is, is steady, the definitions are steady. [00:25:10] It's something everyone can get behind, and so I really lean in a Yep. Pipe. But but you are [00:25:15] still splitting out for marketing source marketing influenced and, and not [00:25:20] 'cause that that itself can be subjective at times and sliding. So how are [00:25:25] you dealing with that complexity?
Amy Cook: right now we lean in the most heavily on the marketing [00:25:30] source pipeline and on the influence pipeline. I just make sure that I know exactly, like [00:25:35] I, I take a very, probably more than average. Um, deep dive [00:25:40] into my metrics every week and make sure I know exactly which deals are comprising my [00:25:45] pipeline. Um, and so if somebody ever questions me on the influence, I can say, well [00:25:50] that's because we did this campaign here, and that's because, you know, so, and we use Salesforce [00:25:55] and, um, we are, we make really good use of the Salesforce campaigns so we [00:26:00] can be able to track the influence.
Amy Cook: Uh, directly in Salesforce. Um, and [00:26:05] so everyone is, because, uh, we have a very communicative team. [00:26:10] Um, they can, I also cut, I also like opened the kimono basically and said. [00:26:15] Guys come in and evaluate all my metrics. I want you to [00:26:20] look at everything, look at every lead, look at every, every, [00:26:25] everything that came in inbound, whether it's in ICP or not.
Amy Cook: I want you to be able to just like [00:26:30] open it up and see what, see what I have. And that really developed a lot of [00:26:35] trust, especially, um, with our, you know, our CRO and other members of the [00:26:40] Go-To-Market team because they can see that, you know, we're all one engine. [00:26:45] And I think that doing that gave gave us the opportunity to really build [00:26:50] our engine together.
Amy Cook: So, um, right now, like Pete Shelton's, our CRO [00:26:55] and I have so much respect for him, he's amazing. He was the head of sales at Domo. [00:27:00] Leader in Adobe and stuff. And so what we've been doing is basically [00:27:05] building this engine together. And he's in there, you know, checking on [00:27:10] my, the way that my, uh, you know, inbound flow is on the website and [00:27:15] suggesting edits and I'm in there asking if his AEs have any event ROI for [00:27:20] me.
Amy Cook: And, and it's really great when you have that trust. And I think that being vulnerable like [00:27:25] that and saying, look at all of my metrics, look at how I've sourced my metrics and feel free to [00:27:30] make suggestions, was really actually what, what
Jon Miller: So pipeline is a key metric, you know, [00:27:35] um, as you say, as close to revenue as possible. What other are, what are your other top [00:27:40] metrics? Um, you know, a pet topic of mine is, you know, how are, you know, [00:27:45] thi things that are harder to measure, like brand AI influence, things like that. What are you doing [00:27:50] around, what are your other metrics?
Amy Cook: So we. We use SEM Rush to help with [00:27:55] the a, the a EO visibility metrics. I know there are lots of great companies, like I [00:28:00] was messing around with Gage the other day. And, um, there are just, uh, [00:28:05] several others that can show that AI visibility on dashboards. Um, so [00:28:10] I think that's an important one. We, we also, um, track our [00:28:15] on-page SEO, make sure that we're optimized for health there.
Amy Cook: Uh, we [00:28:20] track, um. Right now I have not. I, I don't [00:28:25] have anything purchased for like, share of voice, but that's next on my list to [00:28:30] buy. Um, something that, I used to have some technology for that, but, [00:28:35] um, we're, since we're still a startup, we, I gotta develop this little by little [00:28:40] go with the core tech, but I would say share of voice is really important.
Amy Cook: Um, I would [00:28:45] say that, you know, the, I've started focusing on the leads on the SEO [00:28:50] on the, um. On the a EO visibility. [00:28:55] Um, other things that I track are, uh, I actually [00:29:00] have, um, I look at every single lead that came in. I look at ICP fit, I track [00:29:05] percentage of ICP in pipeline. Uh, I track [00:29:10] percentage of ICP in my leads.
Amy Cook: Um, so I use [00:29:15] a lot. I use as many of the sales, uh, metrics as I can, um, and adopt them [00:29:20] as my own.
Sydney Sloan: so we like to end with some fun questions. Um, and [00:29:25] uh, I know John has a curiosity on your grandchildren, so we might, I wanna answer that. [00:29:30] But, um, what do you do for fun outside of work?
Sydney Sloan: Like what's your five to nine?
Amy Cook: [00:29:35] Oh, you know what? I love playing the violin and it [00:29:40] was my, it was my first. Gig. I, I played the [00:29:45] violin in the, in the shows growing up. Um, I've been trained classically [00:29:50] since I was three, and so I played forever. I'm not, I'm not great anymore, [00:29:55] but I love doing that. So I, I do that for fun. Um, I'll do some studio work [00:30:00] sometimes, which is, which is really fun.
Amy Cook: And then, um, honestly, I just like try [00:30:05] to spend as much time with my kids as I can. They're all growing up and several of them [00:30:10] are, are out of school now. Didn't I see. I think you just announced your daughter's [00:30:15] going to BYU, right? Did
Sydney Sloan: I Yeah, you're, she's my fourth, so I've [00:30:20] got, thank you. I've got two outta school. I've got, uh, one that's going to [00:30:25] Peru for a year and a half. I've got one that's graduating, going to BYU, and then I have [00:30:30] one in high school still. So, um, I've pretty, kind of boring. I don't
Sydney Sloan: Yeah,
Sydney Sloan: that [00:30:35] five to nine's a little bit. Well, let's, let's just call that five to nine momming,
Amy Cook: Yeah,
Sydney Sloan: which is, you know, [00:30:40]
Sydney Sloan: your
Amy Cook: that's right.
Amy Cook: My other job is the momming, and I love it. It's [00:30:45] fabulous. And then John, I mentioned this earlier, but I am a, a grandma now [00:30:50] too, and it's so much fun and what everything they say about [00:30:55] being a grandparent is true. It's like, it's so much fun because you don't have to do any of the heavy [00:31:00] lifting.
Amy Cook: You don't have to ever discipline it. And like my grandkid is a baby. I, of course, I wouldn't yet, [00:31:05] but, um, but I, I never will, ever again, and it's the best. All I can do is just [00:31:10] say, oh, I love you. Do you want snacks? Let's not tell your parents, and then that's [00:31:15] it.
Jon Miller: And your and your LinkedIn headline says that your name is is great. Glamma.
Amy Cook: [00:31:20] That's right. I'm trying to train everyone that I'm glam. I'm not grandma. [00:31:25] And so I was telling my daughter the other day that that was my name because she was asking me, she's [00:31:30] like, have you chosen your grandma name yet? And I said, yes, it's glam. And she goes, uh, [00:31:35] no it's not. She's like, it's gonna be whatever the kid tells you it's going to be.
Amy Cook: [00:31:40] So I'm like, It might be hard for them to say,
Sydney Sloan: I am not sure. Yeah.
Jon Miller: with, with your [00:31:45] power of communication and influence, I, I, I think that you're gonna start a trend with that one.
Amy Cook: [00:31:50] Well, thank you, John. I, I appreciate the opportunity to, to be here [00:31:55] today and to be able to chat with you guys. I've never been on a [00:32:00] podcast before with other CMOs where I want to ask you guys a bunch of [00:32:05] questions because I just wanna ask you the questions and see what I should do differently. Like, it's [00:32:10] really, really awesome what you've done here, um, with the podcast and with the organization.
Jon Miller: you.
Sydney Sloan: [00:32:15] Well, thank you for that. And we also then end on gratitude. So look at, you're [00:32:20] leaning into it already and allowing you to give shout outs to a couple [00:32:25] people that, um, you know, helped you get to where you are. We know we don't do this alone, so who would [00:32:30] you like to give
Amy Cook: Oh, well thank you so much. There are so many. It's, uh, I'm, I may be [00:32:35] blanking. Uh, I will be blanking on some of them, but a few people that [00:32:40] come to mind immediately are the team that have stayed with me for over 10 years [00:32:45] to, like, they were part of the agency and then they've come with me. And, [00:32:50] um, two in particular, three in particular.
Amy Cook: I'll shout out. Um, the first one is Megan [00:32:55] Ross. The second is Janelle Wright. Megan is my marketing ops person. Janelle is my [00:33:00] content person, and, uh, Eric Ramirez is our web developer. [00:33:05] Emily Wal does operations. I'm super grateful. I've worked with all of those guys for over 10 years, which is [00:33:10] amazing. And then, um, I would say I'm really grateful to my, [00:33:15] um, co-founder Ryan, for giving me a shot and giving me the opportunity all [00:33:20] those years ago to do my first CMO gig.
Amy Cook: Like what an awesome opportunity it was for [00:33:25] me to be able to, to do that. So, um, he also made my life really flexible. [00:33:30] And, uh, he said, you know, when I was ready to take the job. [00:33:35] Because I have so many children, I was like, you know what? I will work my guts out for you. I will do [00:33:40] anything you ask. I will like do more than full-time.
Amy Cook: I just need the hours from three to [00:33:45] seven off every day. And he was like, no problem. Just get your job done and who cares? And [00:33:50] so that was, that was really impactful for me. I'm super grateful for that. [00:33:55] And I'm grateful for all of the other CMOs who have taught me so much [00:34:00] over the years. And I think that's one of the reasons that I'm very excited about this.
Amy Cook: [00:34:05] What you're doing with the. Project and for the opportunity to learn. I think things are changing [00:34:10] so quickly. We all need to kind of link arms and figure it out together. [00:34:15] And I'm, uh, I'm really, uh, thankful to be part of that community.
Sydney Sloan: [00:34:20] Well, Amy, the show must go on Cook. Um, uh, thank you [00:34:25] so much for being here. The highlights that I took away from our conversation is really as a [00:34:30] strategic. CMO uh, owning pipeline is an important part of [00:34:35] how you remain strategic, the way that you talked about being vulnerable to build [00:34:40] relationships and opening up the kimono and welcoming feedback so you're in partnership [00:34:45] together with your, uh, with your peers, and then you're clearly metrics driven.
Sydney Sloan: [00:34:50] Um, and these are a lot of the things that we see in what Strategic CMOs do, and you [00:34:55] amplify it very well. Um, I just wanna say to everybody who's listening, I hope you [00:35:00] learned something today from us. If you like what you learned, please follow the b2b CMO [00:35:05] project.com and listen to our podcasts, our primary research.
Sydney Sloan: [00:35:10] If you are a, at scale CMO, you can join our community. And again, Amy, [00:35:15] thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us today.
Amy Cook: Thank you so much.
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