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Beyond The Message is a weekly podcast that dives deeper into the weekend’s teaching. Released after each Sunday service, it offers thoughtful conversation, added insight, and practical reflection to help our community process and apply what they heard. Whether you're revisiting the message or catching up, this podcast is designed to help you go deeper throughout the week.
00:00:20:34 - 00:00:37:43
Unknown
Welcome to Beyond the Message, the podcast where we take the weekly teaching at Christ Community Chapel and we bring it into your week. Each week we sit down together and we usually laugh a little bit. We reflect, we talk, and we think about how to live out what it is that we are learning. My name is Stacy and today I'm joined.
00:00:37:43 - 00:01:00:32
Unknown
Today we've got a special day again, another live taping here on a Thursday night after the Thursday night 730 service. Can you hear it? It's a great place to be. You should try it sometime. I'm Stacy and I'm joined today by Pastor Joe special treat. We've got Holly as well as pastor Mark here. So all great friends and colleagues that we get to work together.
00:01:00:32 - 00:01:19:19
Unknown
So we're going to start with a recap of the message. So I know you here in the room. You just heard it, but just you can hear it a little bit once more. Okay. So this is week two of a series through Proverbs of different passages and Proverbs. That's called More Wisdom and More Life. This week we looked at Proverbs 1320.
00:01:19:21 - 00:01:45:24
Unknown
I'm going to read it and it says, whoever walks with the wise becomes wise, but the companion of fools will suffer harm. And Pastor Joe led us through three points, some great illustrations as well. The first one is What is Wisdom? And talked a little bit about wisdom versus morality. Morality, having that black and white nature wisdom is that other 80% why you need wisdom?
00:01:45:24 - 00:02:03:52
Unknown
And then lastly how you get wisdom. And a lot of that has to do with other people. And some great points about that that we'll get into as well as we have this little dialog. So to start things off though, I thought I would just ask all of us. Wisdom is a word we throw around a lot. We think about or talk about a lot.
00:02:03:52 - 00:02:28:36
Unknown
And how did how have you thought about that word? And how did this teaching kind of expand or clarify your thinking of it? Jump on in your minds a complete blank? What what did we just talk about? Yeah, no, I actually thought that that was really interesting to me because I would have said that wisdom is trying to determine the right thing and the wrong thing, and that's not really what we talked about.
00:02:28:36 - 00:02:54:01
Unknown
We talked about this idea when we're in the room, and we need to turn on the lights and see what's actually going on, see the reality around us and what is the best path forward. And I thought that was really good. Yeah, I love that too. I loved the whole idea of wisdom is what is part of the map of reality, that it helps keep us connected to what is truly real.
00:02:54:11 - 00:03:16:48
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, I think I know, I feel like I conflicted kind of morality choices and wisdom as well. And and not that yeah, they're disassociated completely. But there is a reality that, you know, those moral choices that God has defined for us, they shouldn't take that extra wisdom. Right? God's made it clear, I would say, yeah, it's very unwise for me to ever disobey God.
00:03:16:50 - 00:03:34:08
Unknown
Like straight up, it just seems crazy because then I thought, you know, for me, the 80% that's not in the Bible was going, man, that should be the tough part. The other part shouldn't be. So yeah, that definitely struck me because I'm like, man, that yeah, we should not be ever needing to question whether we go against that or not yet.
00:03:34:08 - 00:03:55:12
Unknown
That's still hard for a lot of us, right? And for me, I like the idea when I was thinking about wisdom, of navigating what is true and reality. Because in our culture right now, we are trying to say we determine we can make reality what it is like. We define our own reality, we create our own super dangerous.
00:03:55:12 - 00:04:20:01
Unknown
And I mean everybody like there's you go so far away from what is true. People just go and that is nuts, right? And that's where we've gotten because we've disassociated from reality I think. Yeah. No, that's really good. Well, let me start with one question that came in. What should I do from a biblical perspective if I don't agree with the wisdom I'm getting?
00:04:20:10 - 00:04:43:23
Unknown
So I'm maybe getting from other people or I don't know, that's the yeah, I would probably need more information about that. Like how why would they think it was wisdom if they don't agree with it. Like part of it is if let's go to the the one wheel. If somebody said, yeah, you should try it. And because people really will never forget that.
00:04:43:26 - 00:05:03:08
Unknown
Right. And I think that'll be very interesting to see you fall or right now if I don't agree with that then I would say yeah, that that's not wise. It's it's strange for me to have them say, I don't agree with the wisdom. You can not agree with their opinion and feel like it's not wise. So I'm not going to follow it.
00:05:03:13 - 00:05:24:50
Unknown
It's another thing for now, I was I could also say, yeah, I don't care the chances that I'm going to fall and break bones. Oh, I had a lady come up to me after the 630. Yeah, a little older than me. She said, yeah, my grandkid got a hoverboard. Same type of thing. I thought, that looks cool. Got on it.
00:05:24:52 - 00:05:42:39
Unknown
She fell, broke her jaw and like, her ribs. And I was going, okay, that's what that's. You made the wise choice. She was sharing wisdom anyway. So that's how that would be hard for me to try to just navigate just on that question. Yeah, yeah, I think I want to I want to be careful about picking apart the words too much.
00:05:42:39 - 00:06:10:06
Unknown
But Joe hit on it to to say, what if I disagree with the wisdom? But wisdom is capital W. It is. Frankly, if you disagree with true wisdom, then you're walking with fools and you're in danger of getting hurt. So that's the hard thing, is what we're talking about. What we're exploring is, is not the highest opinion, right?
00:06:10:11 - 00:06:36:50
Unknown
Or if you disagree with somebody input. But we all seek wisdom. You know, what does it what does it take to make a really healthy long marriage? That's not just an opinion. We need more than more insight than that. Yeah. No, that's really good. Okay. When have you experienced the ramifications of being a companion of foolish influences rather than wise influences?
00:06:36:50 - 00:06:57:56
Unknown
And like, how do you know, maybe also if you're being moved in a wrong direction by people around you. So kind of leaning into the those foolish influences. Anyone have some insights there? Yeah, I think when I am surrounded by people who are not pushing me towards wisdom, that starts to rub off on me, so I probably start to complain more.
00:06:57:56 - 00:07:17:48
Unknown
I like to say I get a little crusty. I stopped being able to see the good. I start really focusing on my circumstances versus focusing on God and what he could be doing in the midst of my circumstances. And then, you know, I just got coffee with a woman this week who is really she's really wise to me, and I'm struggling with the situation with one of my kids.
00:07:17:48 - 00:07:36:06
Unknown
And I'm asking her, you know, like, what do I do? And she says, well, what you need to do is it's really this issue is really more about your faith than it is about the situation. And so you need to be open to God working in whatever the next step is, whether the situation goes the way you want to, or whether the situation doesn't go the way you want to.
00:07:36:08 - 00:07:58:48
Unknown
And that's wisdom, right? Because that's pushing me towards trusting God's character and leaning into who he is. And so the opposite happens when I have someone saying, well, you should do this. You should control more, you should do this. I try to do that. And then, of course, I'm moved further away from God and his character. Yeah, that's anyone else with those foolish influences in your life and how that's impacted you or times that that's impacted you?
00:07:58:55 - 00:08:33:29
Unknown
Yeah, I'm sure I have. You know, part of getting old is you don't always remember the knucklehead things you do in your life, but it also made me think how how fortunate I feel that people taught me to, just like Joe did the night to seek out wise people. And I honestly feel like I avoided a lot of life's potholes because there were people in my life who had gone beyond and said, hey, be really careful about this.
00:08:33:31 - 00:08:57:27
Unknown
Think, think this through before you act this way. So I think they they helped me avoid a lot of pain and a lot of foolishness in my life. Yeah, this teaching pastor and I were talking earlier reminded me of something that I know with my own kids. I always had a mantra of saying, hey, you're going to become like the five people that your are your closest friends and just, you know, there is truth to that, that like, you find yourself moving in no relationships neutral, right?
00:08:57:30 - 00:09:17:00
Unknown
It's moving you in one direction or another. So actually another question that came in that's a little bit related to that is how do I separate myself from the company of fools but still minister to them? Or should that be even an end? I'm adding to the question, should that even be an end that you're aiming at? Can I be wise in their circle of influence?
00:09:17:00 - 00:09:33:59
Unknown
So yeah, any thoughts about how to separate yourself when you see yourself in the company of fools? Is that harsh? To just cut it off? Is that do I try and be a mission? They're my mission field. What do you what do you do with that? I mean, are they your only influence? That's a great. That's my question.
00:09:33:59 - 00:09:51:22
Unknown
If they're the only people that you're hanging out with, that feels a little dangerous. But if you then have a source of wisdom and people that can feed into you, then you can take some of that back, I think. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I agree with. Yeah, yeah. You need those people that are moving you in the right direction and having that influence in you.
00:09:51:22 - 00:10:11:52
Unknown
So you talked a little bit about sometimes having the mindset of saying God should be my only source of wisdom. He's the one who's going to impart all this. I'm going to wait till I get that gut feeling that resonate with me, because I do feel like I have experienced walking with people that are just waiting for that and are like, I'm I've got to hear from God on this.
00:10:11:52 - 00:10:33:02
Unknown
So have have you defaulted to that? How do you help guide somebody? I mean, you've given some great truth tonight, but that are kind of defaulting to saying, God's my source of wisdom. I'm missing the jeep, the boat and the helicopter just waiting for him. That was actually, you know, in every sermon there's one. If I was going to give the elevator a talk, like somebody said, what's your sermon about?
00:10:33:05 - 00:10:52:04
Unknown
That's what it was. That's what I would say. That's the thing, because I've seen too many people try to I've had too many people in my office. I've been praying about this, and I have a piece about it, and I do not have much. After 45 years in ministry, do not have a lot of confidence in that statement.
00:10:52:04 - 00:11:10:07
Unknown
Because when I pray about something and I don't get any kind of input and it's not a right or wrong thing, it's just a a lot of times I end up doing what I want to do, you know? And I don't know, I don't know how to feel God push. And I don't know if he does that very often.
00:11:10:07 - 00:11:32:23
Unknown
He does it sometimes, I suppose, but in Scripture he's using people all the time. So I'm it's much better for me to, to spend time talking with somebody who's wise and then praying and then going back and talking to them, and that's that moves me to a better place. I think we tend to be so individualistic in our culture, and that's what scares me.
00:11:32:25 - 00:12:02:07
Unknown
You know, especially in a church our size. That's the other thing is I, I really wanted to camp on. There is so much wisdom here for everybody to get, but you got to all the threads have to be connected. You have to find a place, find, get in. Bible says I can't tell you how many times there like serendipitous meetings between people when they're sitting right next to each other, and then they find out that the person, the wisdom that they needed is right there, right then.
00:12:02:07 - 00:12:37:31
Unknown
And if you stay by yourself, your chances of getting that. I just don't think that's the way God intended for people to get all the wisdom they need just from him. If he if he intended that he would have, he would have put that down. No, I appreciate that. And even with a lot of young adults, but even not young adults in the room, if you do not have somebody that is a decade ahead of you in life or something that is able to speak into where you're at and where you might be going, find that person, come and talk to us and we'll help you find people.
00:12:37:31 - 00:12:59:25
Unknown
But the reality is, I mean, I know for myself and we might hit this in a little bit, but that's so valuable like the and God does use that in such incredible ways to help point you to Jesus, but just point you also to just those wise decisions with all of life's challenges. You know, I'm quite sure this has come in a lot of forms through Pastor Joe.
00:12:59:25 - 00:13:33:16
Unknown
And many of you remember Pastor Jim College as well. He's still living, by the way, I didn't mean to make that sound like he was gone. But, you know, one of the things that just echoes in my head is we would talk about important decisions, whether they were important ministry decisions or just important life decisions. And these two guys constantly would push back to number one, make sure you know the full counsel of God from His word, and then make sure you seek out the counsel of very godly people.
00:13:33:16 - 00:14:06:06
Unknown
That's right. And the more important the decision, the more carefully you want to take that process. And and I think that really is a key to how wisdom comes into the practice of our lives. Yeah, absolutely. You talked about what how to recognize a wise person. And I thought this was very good and just very practical in looking at, of course, who do they love and, you know, their relationship with Jesus ways also that we can we'll talk about that provide spaces like this.
00:14:06:09 - 00:14:27:17
Unknown
How do they live and that you talked about there being a calm and solidity to life and for them versus decisions or a life filled with fear and pride? And then what does that person know? Are they living in the middle of God's best practices for them? So when we think about that, how I think the fear and pride one stuck out to me a lot.
00:14:27:19 - 00:14:48:52
Unknown
And first of all, how does that manifest? If we're looking for the right type of people to surround ourselves with, practically speaking, what can we offer towards that end with even some of these examples that have lived there? I mean, you were talking a little bit about how fear and pride manifests for you or you've seen that. Yeah.
00:14:48:54 - 00:15:10:37
Unknown
I mean, for me, fear doesn't come out through like panic or anxiety. It comes out through control. So the more scared I am about a situation, the tighter I hold it and the more I try to manipulate the outcome to get what I think I should have or what I think is best for the situation. So I need people in my life to to pry open my hands and say, like what?
00:15:10:48 - 00:15:32:01
Unknown
What are you doing? And so I talk about the one that I got coffee with that that's what she's doing. I wanted her to tell me this is what you should do, but instead she's saying, did you open your hands? And are you trusting that he is in control? And so I think that balance of of someone who is going to help me fight against my natural tendencies is what I need.
00:15:32:04 - 00:16:00:16
Unknown
Yeah. I think the, you know, one of several things that come to my mind when I was very young in this ministry, I remember going into meetings with the agenda of I want, I want to make sure people understand and know how smart I am. And I would say things as if I understood implications and ramifications. And and it was so ridiculous.
00:16:00:16 - 00:16:26:10
Unknown
And one of the things I learned was, my gosh, that's exactly what pride does. And when I when I occasionally would do it right, I would go in and I would sit and I would listen. And then I would ask because the idea of receiving something and putting my pride aside and saying, you know what? I really can learn something here.
00:16:26:24 - 00:16:52:54
Unknown
It I mean, you guys get it. It is a huge barrier. If if you if you're going to block wisdom a big way, you're going to do it is with pride. Yeah, yeah. For me, I almost had one of the that's supposed to be you have them love Jesus and love you because part of what with me like I turned to Karen a lot when I'm frustrated with something and I say, you got to help me.
00:16:52:56 - 00:17:11:46
Unknown
Help me see what I'm not seeing. And sometimes she needs to point out that it's that it's pride or it's control, which means which for me, the fear is this. I mean, same thing I do. Yeah. So that is always something that is for me, really hope. Because I trust her love for me, trust her love for Jesus.
00:17:11:46 - 00:17:33:25
Unknown
So she is able to say, give me a different perspective and help me right then, but I don't. It's hard for me to hear, have somebody point out my pride when I'm not convinced they love me. That's so true. So I, I kind of need somebody to go, like, somebody comes up, a stranger comes up and goes, you are full of it, right?
00:17:33:27 - 00:17:50:05
Unknown
They're probably right, but I don't it's going to be hard for me to. They don't really. Yeah. Can be hard to hear it, know that it's true. And I think a starting point is no matter what and we should there are a lot of things that we would intentionally create spaces here because this is so true and it is so needed.
00:17:50:07 - 00:18:17:08
Unknown
So if you're sitting here going, I just don't have those people. Number one, I do think, remember these qualities like, yes, people that are absolutely loving Jesus, following Jesus with their life and then also that they do love you. And that might take some time, but that that time and relationship can be built over time. But I mean, we do what has I think for us, maybe we could just quickly mention what we have experienced or learned from community here.
00:18:17:08 - 00:18:35:05
Unknown
I know we maybe have a little bit of an advantage because we work here, but we do things and build things here intentionally for people to create space. So how has community here helped shape you or give you those avenues to wisdom that we're talking about tonight?
00:18:35:09 - 00:19:08:29
Unknown
I can't even conceive of not being able to do life without community, really. I mean, I, I have we can tend towards wanting isolation like our culture. Oh yeah yeah, yeah yeah I don't I didn't say I always want it, but I, you know I can't. Yeah I don't know how you do it. I think of the whole, the whole idea of he who walks with the wise and the picture there is move up close, get close, stay close, stay in step.
00:19:08:31 - 00:19:37:18
Unknown
Not just go seek out and ask a question of the wise, you know and I. Yeah that so so I don't know how you do it I guess I throw it back I don't know how you do it without community I really don't. Yeah. You've got great community. Yeah. I just, I, I can't imagine not doing life with people who can grieve with me and rejoice with me, who can pry open my hands when I'm doing the control.
00:19:37:30 - 00:19:57:55
Unknown
I can't fathom what that would feel like. And I think here the best way to start that is, yeah, Bible study, a circle, joining a circle where you are committing to like, okay, we're going to walk together for this next period of time and we're going to actually live life together and start building those relationships. But I think you have to let people in.
00:19:58:00 - 00:20:20:34
Unknown
I think that's really scary. But you do have to let them in, whether it's through a circle or sitting next to that person in Bible study and saying, hey, this is what's going on. This is my prayer request, and actually be a little vulnerable, which can be scary. Yeah, absolutely. I think part of what has happened for me is that I've been able to I have a curiosity about people that makes me ask questions.
00:20:20:34 - 00:20:56:15
Unknown
And when I say that my lack of knowledge in certain subjects is staggering, that I've really I really believe that. So for me to find I love finding people who know more about a subject than I do. And I've been able to spend 40 years here at church in different community groups with different people, forming different relationships. And then I have this kind of Rolodex of people that I know are knowledgeable in areas that I'm not, that I can go to when I need wisdom in that particular area.
00:20:56:15 - 00:21:16:52
Unknown
And then I've had the blessing of knowing people like Jim College, who I think it's one of those the wisest people that I know. Yeah, I know I had experience in the last couple of weeks where I texted my person that I go to often for wisdom, and I said, I'm actually really embarrassed. And my pride doesn't want to tell you that I am dealing with this challenge right now.
00:21:16:52 - 00:21:39:42
Unknown
And then I went on to share the challenge and felt a little bit embarrassed. But I think the reality is like being able to like, consider opening yourself up for that. Those that percentage of yourself that you kind of don't always want people to know about, and being able to share that is super important, but it will lend to your own growth and your own insights and wisdom through all of it.
00:21:39:44 - 00:21:58:16
Unknown
I also think it invites it back the other way. So if you are willing to say, hey, this part of my life is messy and I'm going to let you see it, someone else is more likely to say, hey, you could see my best to. That's right. And we all need that. We all really do need that. Pastor, I want to ask you one question that did come in just and and.
00:21:58:21 - 00:22:34:02
Unknown
Yeah, it's just a hard question. If my heart is hardened right now towards wisdom that is in the Bible, how can I better align my view with it? Maybe. Any starting points you can think of with that? Yeah I would boy, I would say be really, really careful because what happens, you know, God, God's love for you is so great and so deep that for you to say, my heart is hardened toward what he wants for me means that you are heading toward some probably real painful stuff.
00:22:34:17 - 00:22:58:15
Unknown
Like when I say I go into my basement, I want the light on. It's because I don't want to get hurt. That's what the Proverbs says you'll suffer harm like I am. I can't say 100% that if you follow God, your life will be blessed. But I can say 100. I mean blessed like like all the things that you always wanted.
00:22:58:15 - 00:23:26:47
Unknown
But I can be 100% sure that if you reject God, it will be brutal. Sin is brutal. I remember a kid when I taught at CBC. After I came here, he came up to me and he was like four years out of CbCa and he said, what you told me wasn't true. And I said, what is that? And he said, you said if I rejected God that my life would be bad.
00:23:26:47 - 00:23:56:26
Unknown
I love my life. And I said, come see me in ten years. And he didn't. It was just broken up. Just so I would just say, if somebody says to me, I'm rejecting God, my thing is, oh man, when you when life breaks, you come see me because there's healing. That's it, that's it. And you may be hard enough to to go until you break, but it's coming and I wish it, you know, I wish it wasn't.
00:23:56:26 - 00:24:18:10
Unknown
But it's almost like as a parent I would tell my, my kids when they were toddlers, don't do that. It's going to hurt. And they look at me and they do it and then they hurt. That's God with you. So yeah, keep going to his word even if it's hard. Yeah, yeah. Well I think that is going to be it for tonight.
00:24:18:10 - 00:24:33:41
Unknown
I really appreciate all of you guys joining me. Thanks so much for your time I can't look. I'm really looking forward to the rest of this series each week I think will be so, so applicable. And thanks so much for joining us in person. All right. Thanks.
00:24:33:45 - 00:24:55:30
Unknown
Thanks so much for tuning in to Beyond the Message. Before you head out, make sure to subscribe so that you don't miss next week's content. And all week long, we want to provide you opportunities to grow right where you are. So check out our YouTube channel, our app for more opportunities to catch content from Christ Community Chapel. Thanks so much for tuning in and we'll see you next time.