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Demystifying The Indie Film Journey
This season of Truly Independent is
supported by the Help Them See Foundation.
Help Them See is a nonprofit dedicated
to supporting feature films that
inspire faith, hope, and connection.
By partnering with filmmakers
that help them see Foundation
brings meaningful stories to life
and shares them with audiences
worldwide, making a lasting cultural
impact through the power of cinema.
Learn more and discover how you can
be part of the movement by visiting.
Help them see foundation.
Welcome to Season three
of Truly Independent.
I'm Garrett Batty, alongside
my co-host Daren Smith.
Each week we'll go in depth with guests,
industry experts, and we'll even share
our own experiences, all with the goal of
demystifying the independent film process.
This season, it's all about the
script from the first spark of an
idea to a polished final draft,
breaking it down for scheduling,
budgeting, and ultimately shooting.
We'll walk through every step it
takes to get from page to production.
Welcome to Truly Independent.
Garrett Batty: Welcome to another
episode of Truly Independent.
I'm Garrett Batty, and with
me is my co-host Daren Smith.
Daren, how are you?
Daren: So good man.
Glad to see you.
You made it safely back
from being overseas.
Garrett Batty: You can
probably hear my voice.
I'm a little jet lagged.
We've been in Romania for the past
week, uh, but it's good to be back and,
uh, and I'm excited, especially today
to talk to our guests, uh, about, uh,
an amazing film that they have made.
We wanna welcome to the show with us.
We McConaughey and Renny Grahams,
am I saying your name correctly?
Renny and Boston: Sure.
McConaughey Grains.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Garrett Batty: I just,
I slaughtered them both.
Both.
Good.
We get we give no favoritism here.
Everybody gets their name slaughtered.
Renny and Boston: perfect.
Having us.
Garrett Batty: oh my gosh.
You guys are so great for coming on.
So thank you very much for joining us and
I'm really excited to talk to you about
about your experience as filmmakers.
Renny and Boston: Yeah.
Cool.
And I just wanna like throw it
out like the, the exact time we're
recording this, the Artemis two is
going around the dark side of the moon,
Garrett Batty: Right now.
Renny and Boston: right now.
And I'm like, my brain is there.
I'm just like, they're doing it.
This is so cool.
Garrett Batty: Okay.
You can have that on your second screen
Renny and Boston: I
Garrett Batty: we're doing and give us
any updates, uh, that, uh, that happened.
Yeah.
Daren: I headed up on a second
window before we got on this call.
I was like, this is happening.
It's history in the making.
Renny and Boston: So cool.
Garrett Batty: That's cool.
Good.
Okay, so by way of introduction and
we didn't, you guys gotta forgive us.
We don't do a lot of show
research or anything like that.
Even prep,
Daren: we just know you.
Garrett Batty: We just know you and
I've been aware of you all for a while.
It's as you're in the Utah based
film community and certainly a an
iconic filmmaking duo in this Utah
film-based community and now beyond.
So I, and I've admired your work
and honestly followed some of
your like, behind the scenes and,
and the making of, and all the.
Just DIY mentality that you've put
into at least to alien country.
And, uh, so I'm excited to kind
of just get into that and, uh,
hear what you're willing to share.
But first of all, just give us
kind of an, an, an intro of that.
Who are you?
And, and, and, uh, why are we, why
are you guests on this episode?
Renny and Boston: You wanna go first?
Ready?
Go.
Hi.
ready.
And I'm Boston.
And we done that a few times.
Yeah, we we're, we're filmmakers.
We, you know, which talking a lot
now that maker means producer.
And so film producers I think is first
and foremost what you have to be as
an independent creator these days.
And I focus mostly on directing,
writing, and directing.
I'm less in front of the camera, but
Renny got her background, you know?
Yeah.
I started in front of the camera
auditioning and doing the grind,
pounding the pavement, trying to
move to la, all that good stuff,
and kind of fell into producing
by way of commercials and YouTube.
And then alien Country was my first foray
into feature film producing, and I just.
Jumped in head first and was like, know
what I'm doing, but we're doing it.
Yeah.
So we had the one, the one sci-fi action
comedy feature under the belt and are
working on a bunch of new projects.
But we've been doing all kinds of short
production, YouTube production, and
commercial production for over 15 years.
So yeah, we've been doing it.
Garrett Batty: Doing an
amazing job at it, by the way.
I mean, I wouldn't discount.
Your short film or even commercial,
because if, if any listeners have
been on Facebook in the past several
years, you've probably seen commercials
that, that you all have produced.
And you always do.
Very, very fun, super fast, super
well edited, just well done.
Those kind of long format commercials.
Is that right?
Am I describing those correctly?
Renny and Boston: Yeah, I, I
was head of production at an
ad agency called Creatively.
Garrett Batty: Yeah.
Renny and Boston: and I was lucky enough
to be able to work on really fun, long
form content, like you're saying when
I'm, and you know, like four minute
commercials that could be cut down.
And Boston got to direct a lot
of those actually, and I got to
direct several of 'em as well.
But I was, I was the go-to like budget and
producer person over there at that agency.
So it definitely kept me busy
while we were at the same time in
post on Alien country and getting
that into the world as well.
So.
Daren: Yeah, we can go back to
the beginning, like where did the
idea for Alien country even come
from and how did you both come to
the project and start working on
the project in those early stages?
And what was that process like?
Renny and Boston: Yeah, I think
the, the script originally I started
writing before we were together.
And I think while we were dating, I
was like, oh, I got, I wanna make a mo.
I really just wanted to make movies.
I was like, oh, I, I gotta.
Yeah, I gotta get, I gotta get my feature
film script done and I'd graduated
from film school and I had with this
idea to make a modern day western.
And that was kind of the idea.
And then to make like a super long
story short, I got to interview Stan
Lee at a comic convention, the Salt
Lake City comic convention called Fan X.
And he basically just.
You know, graciously just gave his
time and he was like, oh, okay, cool.
Like you, you work for the convention?
Sure, I'll come and, and and sit down.
And I asked him about writing and he
just described that whenever he would
come up with a story, he tried to not
write for other people but just write
a story that he would enjoy reading.
at the time I'm working on this script
and I was like, well, am I really
writing something that I would enjoy?
Is this something that
I would go out and see?
And it was like modern day western.
I think.
I was just trying to use what
resources, limited scope I had here
in Utah, which is great Western.
You know, vistas and yada yada.
I was like, but what, what
are the movies I love?
And so I started thinking about through,
you know, all the different films and I
was like, well this is really mi missing
some supernatural, fantastic element.
And certainly like monsters, I was
like, I love creature movies, so
why don't I make a creature movie?
And, you know, the creature that
felt at home here in Utah was aliens.
So I started diving into alien
lore, but wanted to come up with
my own story and own our own thing.
So I, anyway, I basically you know,
at that point was like, you know what?
Let, I gotta finish.
I'm gonna rewrite this script, page
one, and it's gonna be an alien movie.
So I rewrote this movie about aliens.
And I was like, and we're gonna,
we're gonna make this movie.
This is like, this is gonna be my thing.
And so I finished the script
and and that was in 2014 and
we didn't shoot it till 2020.
So six years draft one was
done, you know, in 2014.
And we, and that was like a $20
million version of the movie.
We had to scope, scale it down.
Yeah.
Quite a bit.
And in the process of that, I actually
jumped in in the writing process and
helped rewrite and I was very invested
in writing a female character that
was strong and sassy and smart and
had some real concerns, you know, with
her dreams and her future and family
planning and so it was really a labor
of love between the two of us to just.
Get the script itself into a place
of that was doable and suitable and
quote, you know, low budget enough.
Probably still should have been a
higher budget than one we did before.
But yeah, we like to say we basically
took all of all of the events that
happen in season one of Stranger Things
we just wrote into a 90 minute script.
It.
and and then on top of that it was like,
yeah, the first versions were really
about this guy trying to win over a girl.
And then as we grew up and our
relationship progressed, it was more
about this couple trying to stay in a
committed relationship and the struggles
that couples can have doing that.
So we liked to say back in the
day that it's like any amateur
can fall in love, but it takes a
real professional to stay in love.
Daren: Ah, very nice.
Renny and Boston: So that's it.
Yeah.
That's the, that was the growth
and the coming to a of age story
that is alien country, I guess now.
So.
Daren: it's, I remember seeing it.
You guys did a pre premiere,
what, two years ago or so?
Renny and Boston: Yeah.
Yeah,
Daren: and was just blown away
like it for a first feature, right?
Renny and Boston: yeah.
Yeah.
Daren: of you.
That's a big movie and a you guys.
Pulled off a lot on, I'm
sure a very limited budget.
So maybe walk us through, how did
you go from what was the point where
you're like, okay, we're actually
making this in those six years, and
how did you go about raising the
money, putting the production together,
getting cast and crew, et cetera?
Walk us through that process because
that's the dream for most of us.
Listening to this and even those
that are like co-hosting this,
like how do we get movies made?
How is
Renny and Boston: Yeah,
Daren: else doing it?
Renny and Boston: yeah,
Daren: from it?
So walk us through that a little bit.
Renny and Boston: yeah.
Our, our funding.
the story's kinda interesting 'cause
it definitely was shot in phases.
There was a couple things that
were stacked against us, but also
became benefits, which is one, we
began production in 2020 during
COVI, which was both a, you know,
blessing and a curse in that yeah.
There, there was some limited, there
was a lot of things that you had to
consider when you're doing a production
to keep it safe and and whatnot.
But it also meant a lot of people
were available because there wasn't
as much work, there weren't big
productions, you know, scaling up more
rentals available rent, and the rental
costs were pretty low at that time.
So people were just like,
it's not being used.
Why don't you come use these?
Yeah, we got, we got like, you know, good
indie discounts on a lot of equipment,
like our lenses, our cameras and things.
But so that was really helpful.
And and we basically had raised
and I'll just say the numbers now
'cause I'm really worried about
it, but we raised over 300,000 from
private equity to get the film going.
Daren: Nice.
Renny and Boston: initial funds
of that was just our own money.
That was like, you know, oh, here's
our savings from I'd worked as a.
employee at Google for like a year
and a half, two years, and was like,
let's just just put that in a movie.
So, but then we, but, but saying that to
investors, this is a, a cool tidbit we
learned as soon as I told investors that
I had put up the first capital, which I
was like cagey about saying, they were
all like, oh, you're, you're actually
committed financially to this film.
And I was like, okay.
And that actually opened the
door for some investment.
And then we the next real big round
of cash we got was because we had.
allocated money was, we did get qualify
for the lower tier of our state's
tax incentive program, which brought
in, I think by the end of our first
initial raise, it ended up being
about $90,000 from the state because
we spent somewhere over 400,000 in
state and we got 20% back on that.
So it's like, yeah, that
was a huge win for us.
Again, I had never.
Applied for a tax incentive before.
And, you know, I, I remember emailing
the film commission, I think it was
June or something, and their new
fiscal year was starting in July and
they were like, apply immediately.
Apply immediately.
And I was like, ah, okay.
And I didn't feel ready to apply.
And so we really, like, we figured
out a budget and a projected
spend, you know, and, and all
the things and applied for it.
And the day that we got the news that we.
Like won the grant or, you know, receive,
we're going to receive the court grant.
I think we had like a massive
dance party in the kitchen.
We were just like
Garrett Batty: Yeah.
Renny and Boston: I don't know.
I feel like those things are so
hard, you know, to, to lock down
or get or qualify for, and I never
considered that we'd be even, you
know, able to do it or, or whatever.
And so that was a really big win for us.
And then we overspent yeah.
No, we, we we raised more money to do,
Daren: In
Renny and Boston: the scope got bigger
and we showed the film at, in its,
you know, in a rough cut to some
former studio executives and they
were like, this needs to be bigger.
You need more monsters, more explosions.
we're like, okay.
Okay.
And you know, the tragedy is that
was great advice from a studio
perspective, who has the, the backing.
But we ended up, we put a lot more
money, so we raised more money and,
and shot it and made it bigger.
And I'm, and the scope that I think,
you know, Daren, you're speaking
to, it's, yeah, we, we, we did it,
we, we the midnight oil for three
years straight, I feel like, to, to
get the, the film to a place where
it was like really spectacular.
But ultimately, yeah, it was
like a, it was, we, what we
didn't have money to pay for.
We provided in kind services for, yeah.
So I, I mean, I think Boston, you
spent the bulk of your time in prop.
know, Boston edited the movie for the most
part and did a lot of the visual effects
and didn't receive a dime for that.
So there's a lot of in-kind
services that this movie, you know,
I didn't pay myself as an actor.
I didn't pay myself as a
producer, you know, and.
I would not recommend that to most
people, but we felt like this was,
this was also kind of advice that we
took from another UPM that helped,
helped us break down the script.
And what he was like, okay, if you're
gonna accomplish this on this budget,
which at the time it was like four or 500
that we had initially planned for, he was
like, you guys are not paying tank taking
a paycheck and you're gonna put all that
money on the screen as much as possible.
Garrett Batty: Yeah.
Renny and Boston: was advice that we
took from somebody else, and hence.
Why I ended up getting an ad agency
job and you know, so basically of
like paying for the movie, for paying
for our life in other ways, you know,
so bankrolling the company while we
kept going, you know, essentially.
Garrett Batty: And I don't think
that there, I know there's not
a filmmaker on this in this.
Podcast right now that hasn't
put sweat equity into their first
Renny and Boston: Yeah.
Garrett Batty: And I think that's
a, uh, that's a traditional
way of getting things done.
And it, but, and it, but it's amazing
just the amount of resources that you
guys all pulled together, even from,
Daren: What.
Garrett Batty: it seems like you did
have some equity investors and you did
a crowdfunding campaign at some point.
Renny and Boston: Yeah.
And so we closed out to really afford the
final push, especially with our marketing,
we, we crowdfunded and music too.
Yeah, and my advice, I think, especially
to your listeners is like, we, we.
We postponed doing a
crowdfunding campaign.
We started planning a crowdfunding
campaign a year before the film
was like, before we even finished
our pickup shots for like, we shot
basically 80% of the film in 2020.
And then we, we postponed about 20% of
the film 'cause we were trying to attract
some bigger talent to it which didn't
quite pan out, but we finished the film.
Before we did that, we started talking
about doing crowdfunding and again.
Similar, you know, people we were talking
to in the dis in what we thought was
the distribution world, were like, don't
you dare crowdfund, don't crowdfund it.
It's such a bad idea.
Don't, distributors don't like it?
They'll, they'll, they'll, they won't
take your movie if you've done a
crowdfunding campaign and that just
wasn't the case and isn't the case.
And if there's a distributor who
is poo-pooing crowdfunding, I just,
just go find a different one is my,
Garrett Batty: Yeah.
Renny and Boston: For indie films.
That's what I'm saying.
Yeah.
So.
we, we learned that lesson
a little bit too late.
And if, if I was doing it again, now
that I've learned more about that, we
would've started there with the first
film and and see where things go.
Yeah.
And our crowdfunding campaign like
overlapped with our festival tour, so we
were trying to do both at the same time
and it was very, very time consuming and
complex and you know, and I was honestly
still like working full time and our
kid was like a year old, so there was
a lot going on, you know, at that time.
Yeah.
Daren: What was driving
you guys through all that?
Not that you didn't have a
reason to be driven, but I'm
just curious 'cause that's a lot.
And it, I honestly, I do.
Think that it takes a director,
producer team who are all in that way
Renny and Boston: Yeah.
Daren: do it.
But what was it for you guys that
was driving you to put all of
that sweat equity, all that time
and effort into this project?
Renny and Boston: delusions
of grandeur, I think.
Right.
Garrett Batty: Because you're
thinking, oh, I'm gonna make
this, and as soon as it's made,
people are just gonna line up and.
Renny and Boston: Just gonna, yeah.
Around the block.
Like this is gonna be, and I, I think
there's video, and I did this as a joke,
but also, this is as funny as it sounds.
It's what kind of propel propelled us
is I made videos where we're probably
sitting there in the car and we're like,
we didn't know, did we know while we were
making this, that it was going to have the
worldwide cultural impact that it does?
Yes.
We knew it the whole time.
No, but it was, it was just
like I had to, like, I had to.
You know, it literally, I don't know,
11 o'clock, 12, one in the morning when
I'm working on a visual effects shot,
that's gonna be two seconds long, but I've
been like working on it for three days.
Like, I think there is this piece of you
that it's like you are possessed, and I
don't mean that in a negative or demonic
way, but just the, there's this there's
a quote by John Baldes that I really love
that I think everyone should look up.
But it's that sorry, I should
look it up and memorize it.
I'm just gonna paraphrase
it, unfortunately.
But he basically says you have to be,
say possessed, you have to be possessed,
which you can't, will, you can't will
yourself to be driven by your art.
It really will pull you.
And I think that idea is something
that I really latched onto is like
when I just, when I don't wanna
sleep because of my art, then yeah,
you keep, find, keep following that.
And it's not to say that that.
Isn't, something you can, you
can't manufacture, but I think
it's available to everyone.
There are things that will keep you
awake at night thinking about it, and if
those things are keeping you awake, write
that script about that thing, you know?
So, and, and then ultimately,
once there was that debt of like.
Not just wealth and financial debt
to our investors, to ourselves, to
the people who collaborated with
us like we owed, finishing this
film to everyone who had dedicated
this, the extra nights and weekends
Garrett Batty: Yeah.
Renny and Boston: pay or whatever we owed
that film to them, not just to ourselves,
and therefore also believing that this
was going to be beneficial for everyone.
In the end propelled me well, and I
Garrett Batty: Yeah.
Renny and Boston: like even from the
time we started sharing the script to,
you know, our, our potential dp and
like when we were sharing it with our
potential cast and people were giving
us feedback or were doing table reads,
like we felt propelled by the project
itself and like the people that were.
us positive feedback.
You know, like the, for instance,
our DP was like, I have to make this
movie, like this movie, you know,
and then our, our lead, Casey Cloudy
was like, this is a dream role.
Like you guys, like this would be
so incredible to make, you know?
And so I think that we felt very supported
by those who were on our team as well.
And like our music composer, same deal.
Like he just.
He like, like came out and hit, knocked
it outta the park on our score and,
and just like killed it for us because
he was so passionate about the project
itself that I think it was like those
wins throughout the entire process over
three to four years that we really felt.
excited by it.
And that lasted through, like,
you know, we screened in Italy
and we screened in, in London at
two pretty big film festivals.
And like, these British dudes come up
to us and they're like, Boston ready.
We love your Fing movie.
You know, and they're just
like, like they're, you know.
And so I feel like it was like tiny
moments like that where we were
able to pick ourselves off, off the
ground a a bit because there were,
there were some pretty dark times.
There were some You know, we, our
servers got hacked by like Russians
or something at one point, and we
thought we lost all the footage,
you know, not all the footage.
We definitely had backups, but
we thought we lost a lot of work.
And there's like two days of
principal photography that
were only in one instance.
Which we didn't realize.
And then it was like we had, our
server was actually ransomware and
luckily that wasn't accessed, but
it was like, for two weeks straight
we thought we'd lost, like, and that
would've been like $40,000 worth of
Garrett Batty: Yeah.
Renny and Boston: We
were just like, we were
Garrett Batty: Yeah.
Renny and Boston: on it, just like
dying the whole, you know, just like,
so there's been, there's, there's been
some definite like ups and downs on the
journey and it's, it's, it's a slog.
Garrett Batty: Well, I don't, I don't
think a film gets made without that
level of kind of uncompromising passion.
And you can say, oh, you
know, delusions of grandeur.
But I mean, honestly, like
in a produ producer position.
There has to be that
level of never say die
Renny and Boston: Mm-hmm.
Garrett Batty: to get this made.
And it you, Daren, you're making
a movie right now, brotherhood.
And you, you and Ross have to have
that level of belief and commitment.
Whether somebody's gonna look at the
script and go, ah, nobody ever gonna
see this, but I'm gonna do the project.
That may may not happen.
It, now I'll back up and say that's
not happening with Brotherhood.
'cause Brotherhood's an
amazing project, but.
You as a producer?
Can't?
No.
No.
Producer's gonna do that for
an independent film and, uh.
Daren: you're really, you guys
took it literally and married
each other, but like you have to
marry your, you have to have that
Renny and Boston: Yeah.
Daren: unspoken, are you in a hundred
percent because I'm in a hundred percent.
Okay, good.
Then we're both in and we're
never gonna question that again.
And I've not for, Ross
is a force of nature.
You're a force of nature, Garrett.
So like I never had to worry about.
Man, is this gonna happen?
Is this project gonna come together?
No.
It's more a question of, am I gonna
make sure I'm showing up every day?
Because I know that you guys
are showing up every day and
it's a great motivator for me.
If and when I ever feel like any sense
of doubt or uncertainty, it's wait.
Zoom out.
There's at least one other person who's
a hundred percent all in like I am.
So we just keep going.
But yeah, you have to have that
or else there's plenty of other
things we could be doing with our
lives, with our jobs, with our time.
It's it doesn't have to be this, but there
is some weird compulsion that we get as
filmmakers that this story has to be told,
and we're the ones who have to do it.
Renny and Boston: Yeah, there.
I, well, I love what you said
there too, where it's like that
there's, there's also an empower.
There's an.
A debt, a creative debt.
But there's also that empowerment when
you're the, the first time this happened,
we were doing a little YouTube video
we'd gotten a sponsor who was gonna
pay us $60,000 for a YouTube video.
And it was like, whoa.
But when we had that money, we hired
a crew and it was like, as soon
as I that experience for the first
time, and this was years before we
had made the feature, it was like.
Just because, and this is sort of like
a Casey Neistat thing, just because
I had pressed the upload button, just
because I had gone out and tried and I
reached out and I found this sponsor, I
approached them even, and because I had
done that work, all of a sudden people had
jobs and it was like, oh, this is cool.
This is what I think the joy,
joy of being producer is.
And then to clarify what I was, so
I got the quote wrong, but Well, to
clarify the quote, John Paul Dari said.
Talent is cheap.
You have to be possessed
or obsessed rather.
You really have to feel like
you cannot not do art and that
is something you can't will.
so just feeling you can't
not do this, you know?
So anyway.
Daren: amazing.
Garrett Batty: Okay, so you make the
you, you make the movie through your
blood, sweat, and tears and Boston
again, I was following like where
you're doing a creation live, create.
As far as, Hey, we're gonna go
through this after effects training,
we're gonna put headlights on
this nighttime shot on a truck.
And it seems like you
Renny and Boston: one of the
four people on that live stream.
Garrett Batty: yeah.
But whatever.
But what I loved about it is you're
just trying, you're just like doing,
Hey, this, I think this is gonna work.
Whether it works or not, this
is what I have to do in order to
will this movie into existence.
Renny and Boston: Yeah.
Garrett Batty: And then it get,
and then it happens, and then then,
you know, from my perspective.
Suddenly you're doing like premieres
and screenings and it's at festivals
and I'm just like cheering for my
seat going, they like, they did it.
That's the filmmaker's dream.
Whether or not it makes a buck
or not, like that experience that
you're having is, I think that's
one of the joys of independent film.
Renny and Boston: Yeah.
Garrett Batty: what is that like
from going, okay, we took six years
to make this and now here we are in
front of a theater full of people.
Renny and Boston: I think that, that, that
is the piece where I want every filmmaker,
especially anyone listening to this, to
know, like this year, next year, whenever
your film is done, there's a festival
and this little, there's a little film
reel right here in our, in our frame.
It's a golden film reel.
It's actually an award from a festival
that gave us the best comedy feature and,
and it was the grand jury prize and like.
That
Garrett Batty: Of course.
Renny and Boston: not, we
were not anticipating, we
joking during the festival.
'cause we went all in on this festival.
We went through the whole week and we
networked and we met people and like,
you know, they're talking about the award
ceremony and we know what our film is.
It's not some like artsy, edgy
movie that's like going to, you
know, break, you know, burst through
boundaries or one or whatever.
But like, it's the, it's the palate.
This a, a lady we ran into at
this film festival was like,
your film is a palate cleanser.
She's like, it's a palate cleanser.
It's a family friendly.
Just silly alien movie we all needed
while we're watching like, you know,
these films with, you know, dark subject
matter or, or just intense drama.
It was so nice.
Garrett Batty: Yeah.
Renny and Boston: and we were, we
were making fun of ourselves like
the night before or something.
We're like, 'cause the award summer
ceremony was the next morning and we were
like, yeah, if we win in a award, it'll be
like the best like sci-fi Utah made and,
and now the best film in the category of
science fiction comedy written in Utah.
Yeah.
Goes to.
And it was funny 'cause like the, the
movie that May won an award before
ours, like the runner up movie in the
comedy, you know, was like one of those
really awkward, angsty comedies and,
you know, and so I was literally sitting
there, I was like, there's no way.
There's no way we're
gonna win the next award.
And, and then.
We did.
And it was an incredible, it
just felt very validating.
And, and then I, I think the
takeaway for after so long, yeah.
The takeaway for me was like,
there are awards waiting for
the listeners of this podcast.
Like there, there are awards that
are ready to be given for your film.
And I think that's really cool.
'cause once it's done, you
do, you, put it out there and
there will be the people who.
Like the, you know, the guy in the UK
who loved our film, he's the one who
helped us place in a number of festivals.
He's like, oh, I also know the
programmers of this festival.
You absolutely should apply
to this festival in Italy.
Next thing you know, we're going to Italy.
And it was just like it's there.
So it just, just creating good
work leads to opportunity and then,
you know, opportunity begets more
good work and more opportunities.
So, yeah.
Garrett Batty: Yeah.
Daren: What did you find was
the biggest benefit from doing
a festival run like that?
Because I've never done it, Garrett.
You.
You put Carpenter into a couple of
festivals, but I wasn't involved in
those other than the local Zions film
fest, which I'm repping on my shirt
Garrett Batty: Oh.
What's the matter?
What?
Renny and Boston: the way, I was
one of the judges for when the
Carpenter played at, Ziff, and I
was like, blown away by your movie.
Yeah.
I was like, what is this
Garrett Batty: What is this?
Renny and Boston: Jesus movie
that's happening right now?
Yeah.
I called
Garrett Batty: MMA?
Renny and Boston: Boy Tie Jesus Film.
And I was like, yes.
What awards can that win?
Garrett Batty: yeah, of course.
That, that was Allen nominee is, yeah.
Daren: but yes, the question is,
tell us about that experience
and what did you get from it?
'cause I'm sure there's a
lot of filmmakers who are
like, do I do that route?
Do I go straight to DVD route?
Do I go
Renny and Boston: Yeah.
Daren: route?
I guess now not DVD anymore.
What's a DVD?
Renny and Boston: Yeah.
Daren: what was that decision pro like?
What was that?
like making the decision.
Then what did you get from it?
Renny and Boston: well I think again,
we learned a little bit the hard way
we missed our, the prime time for our
movie to go through the festival circuit.
So we waited beyond, like there's a great
festival cir circuit for genre films from
like August through December basically.
And we waited to submit 'cause we were
hoping to get into some top level, top
tier film festivals that were, you know.
Early in the spring.
And so we actually had a very,
very truncated film festival run,
which was kind of by accident.
But we ended up getting into an
Oscar qualifying film festival
in Rhode Island called Flickers,
which honestly we'd never heard of.
But we went and it was huge.
It was 42 years old.
It was, you know, and we met like
Oscar nominated people there.
And and I wish we had of realized.
What we were sooner in terms of like,
oh, you just just play at the best
genre film festivals that you can Yeah.
'cause we probably lost, like, not
lost, but we waited about eight months.
Was it?
Or, or longer even.
Yeah.
I mean, to get our film out into the wild.
So yeah, I think that I would change this.
This was really interesting.
There were two tactical things we
did, which proved not to be very good.
One was we didn't want to have
a timestamp on our movie saying
that it came out in 2023.
Yeah.
Because we knew we wouldn't be
releasing till 24 or 25 and we didn't
want that to help, like hurt sales.
We wanted an old movie, you
know, and we're, and, and
Garrett Batty: Oh yeah.
Renny and Boston: like old
guard stuff that's not really.
It's not as pertinent anymore.
Yeah.
I think that the world's changed enough
that you, you and, and also approach.
So what we didn't do is apply
for genre festivals and genre
for sci-fi horror, all that.
It starts really in that,
you know, August, September,
October, November period.
And, and we missed the 23 run of that.
And then we, but we got a
distributor who literally booked
deals, so we were already sold.
By that time, the next year.
So if we had just played those festivals,
yes, we would've had a festival release
in 23, but I don't think that would've
affected our, the financial Yeah.
Finances.
So, so my advice is a, you
know, know, know what festivals
are good for your film.
And then I also think of it like going on
tour with a band where if you're like, oh,
I'm gonna go play con, I'm gonna go play,
you know Sundance or South by Southwest,
it's like, sure, you might be able to be
one of the, you know, 10,000 films that
luckily gets the one slot available to
an indie that they've never heard of.
But the other side of that is like, it's,
think of it like playing a big stadium
in a, in a town you've never been to.
If you don't have fans already in that
town, they're not gonna, you know, they
wanna attract the people that attract the,
the products, you know, that meet their.
base.
So think about playing these regional
festivals like going to the hole in the
wall theater that books a hundred, 200,
a thousand people, but they love, you
know, faith-based films or, you know
action martial arts films or whatever
your thing is for us Sci-fi action.
Like, find those festivals
audiences, there's diehard
audiences who wanna see your thing.
And I would rather, I would've rather
spent a full year just going festival to
festival meeting 10 more diehard fans who
are gonna follow us over the next year.
And then they're all
gonna buy it on Amazon.
They're all gonna leave a review
by the time you're released.
You know, if you get their email
and you can remind them, Hey, we're
about, we're about to go live.
So, so that's kind of, I
think, the benefit that.
I would do now is treat a festival, like
going on tour with your band and meeting
your, your groupies and, and like, I dunno
if these terms are offensive to anybody,
but it's, it's like you build but building
genuine connection with people who care
deeply about the art that you're creating
from its genre, from its perspective.
And then, yeah, and, and we really did
the film festival circuit so that we could
say that we got into them and could have
the laurels and it was just a little.
as we did the, the PR and the pub
publicity that, that our distributor
helped us with the next year.
And so I, you know, we got some
additional perks, like, like the New
York Times featured us as one of the
top five sci-fi movies to stream now.
And like we were floored by that.
But honestly, if we hadn't have
done a film festival route, it
probably wouldn't have Yeah.
Changed our distribution.
That much that that came off the back
of probably being in like Fright Fest,
which is Yeah, in London, which is
bigger, you know, horror themed festival.
That and the sci-fi fest in, in Italy
tree SD sci-fi, science and fiction
like those probably gave, whoever
was writing for the New York Times
like, oh this is, this has clout.
This is something that actually
adjudicators and people who have
taste believe in, so they watch it.
They agree.
The Hollywood reporter picked us
up because of the film festival.
Yeah.
You know, so there, there was a little
bit of buzz about us, and then when
our distributor did a formal like, you
know, publicity campaign that just, it
just helped with the sales and we had
a pretty, good transactional run when
the, when the movie first was released.
It was really awesome.
So,
Garrett Batty: I think there's.
Daren: how did that
distributor come about?
'cause you just floated past the fact
that you got a distributor in all of this.
Did that happen to.
You line it up beforehand
or was it during production?
After production?
How did that
Renny and Boston: Well, were
shopping distributors for a while.
Yeah.
And then Boston took a swing and
went to Film Quest here locally.
Yeah.
I, I attended Film Quest, which I
loved, I love to go to every year just
because of the, they do this thing
called Camp Kaulu, where they have
all kinds of people come in and talk
about this, that, and the other thing.
Whether it's marketing a film you know.
In this case distributing.
Right.
So there were three distributors who
attended Film Quest and they were
invited by the, the, you know, and,
and to put in perspective, you don't
know what that is in Provo, Utah.
And they have a genre festival
drum by Jonathan Martin.
but really fun and just some
of the best genre films, shorts
and features around the world.
So, so they play at this festival.
But they brought this distributor
in and I just like, was in the pan.
He was in a panel.
I started asking questions.
I was like, so hypothetically,
let's say you've written a
sci-fi action feature film.
And instead of, and I start like,
you know, and I, we had finished
the film literally like that week or
the, or a couple weeks before, like
our final sound mix was done about
a month before maybe this festival.
And again, we, we didn't go to the
festival because we were thinking
we weren't gonna release should have
thought that through, but talked
to this distributor and then I
show him my trailer and he's like.
Send me this, send me
this, I'll take a look.
And literally a FM was like the next week.
And so there was a lot of pressure
'cause we, we were getting pressure
from other sales reps to take the
film to a FM like we were feeling.
It felt like a pressure
cooker at the time.
I feel like looking back, it wasn't
that big a deal, but we had several
people who were waiting for our answer.
Like, can we rep your
film at a FM in a week?
You know, when we meet this
new guy that we hadn't.
And, honestly, we've
been thrilled with him.
He, he, yeah.
So it's, it's so that was SNR
films, which is ska and Rosner.
So, so, Gato, skat, ska.
Yeah.
I met him, talked with him, and I was,
I was really not nervous or just like,
I wasn't hesitant to just show this guy
my film and my, and say, cool, whatever.
And I think that's something that
I've seen maybe some independent
filmmakers, they're, they're nervous
about that whole relationship.
And I think just being brazen about
it and being like, this is my film.
What can you do for it?
But, but he, he basically gave us this
really incredible offer and because he
loved the film, they, they repped our film
and they, they started as our sales rep
internationally and then domestically,
and they went out to all rights buyers and
they just pounded the pavement for a year.
Well, now it's like a year
and a half, two years.
Yeah.
They're still, they're still
going, doing their work and,
Garrett Batty: Yeah.
Renny and Boston: I could, and
they, they'll be our partner.
I'll make and distribute a filming with
them for as long as I can make them.
So, yeah.
Well, and I wanna say like, I
feel like our trailer, we had a
trailer cut for at least a year and
a half to two years before that.
And that trailer opened more doors
for us with potential buyers,
potential sales reps, potential
distributors, for quite some time.
So we weren't, we weren't
that worried about.
Getting distribution or a sales rep.
It was just a matter of choosing the
right one because we, and we were
really nervous 'cause we just heard
horror stories about being taken
advantage of and people not working
well for you and we couldn't be more.
Pleased with the partner
that we ended up with
Garrett Batty: It's great.
Renny and Boston: is like a fan
of our movie and hustles for it.
And I, I couldn't ask for
anything more than that.
Yeah, so that's, that's our advice
I guess is like the new filmmakers
is like find people who really
care, who are genuine and start, we
start the contracts got like more.
We, we, you know, got more connected
and they became our distributor as
time went on, which I don't know how
common of a story that can be, but
they started just as the sales rep.
And then as things became,
they said, we can do this
territory, we can do this deal.
And, and we just took it one at a time.
And now Yeah, now we're, we're,
we've built a good relationship, so,
Garrett Batty: That's awesome.
Well, and it, the film has made their
job easy because it would, not that
it's ever easy to sell film, but I mean,
you guys have made an amazing film.
You have an amazing trailer,
you have great key art.
It's just like a fun genre movie,
and your cast is outstanding.
Renny and Boston: Oh,
Garrett Batty: yeah, I mean, you look
at a sales agent where they're going,
huh, what, what films can I look at?
And they see something like that
and they're like, oh, well, that's
kind of a no brainer for them.
So it's good.
A, a credit to your decisions
leading up to that point.
And to hear that you've been pleased
with that relationship is awesome
because we need more of that and
we need so often it's the other way
around, you know, and you go, oh, I
haven't heard from my sales agent.
Renny and Boston: I feel like the
distribution world is, is it's old.
Like there's, and there's a lot of history
there and there's a lot of old ways of
buying and selling movies, but there's
also a huge new developing landscape.
And that's something that we feel
like, SNR is really on top of, is just
staying, staying on top of the trends
and even getting ahead of them a little
bit and keeping the filmmakers that they
work with informed about those trends.
Garrett Batty: Yeah.
Renny and Boston: we feel,
not that we like have.
You know, we're future proofing our,
our next movie necessarily, but like,
we just feel a lot more informed.
'cause we weren't informed really at
all when we made Alien country on, on,
you know, the ins and outs of selling.
But I feel like now, like we have a
partner who really has our B back and
wants to succeed, to succeed in making
amazing movies for the next time around.
So, yeah.
Daren: Amazing.
Garrett Batty: So what
is the, so, it's great.
Great segue.
Way into next time around, you know,
you've been through this, uh, what are
we a six years process of, of you know,
the idea to now kinda where we are now.
And I'm sure if it's anything like
me during making a film, you're going
through every emotion and every stage of
like, oh, this is gonna be amazing too.
What am I doing with my life?
Why don't I just quit everything?
Um.
Renny and Boston: talking to your buddies
and you're like, what are you working on?
And they're like, well, I'm doing a deal
as, and they're in some tech industry.
And you're like, oh, that's funny
because I made a funny movie
about aliens in a small town.
And what am I doing?
Garrett Batty: Yeah.
My brother-in-law is like a
Renny and Boston: is good for humanity.
Garrett Batty: yeah.
But,
so that, yeah, that being said.
Where are you as far as next project
and how will it benefit from what
you've learned from this one?
Renny and Boston: Yeah, I, I
have, were you gonna let me go?
'cause I'm deep in, so yeah, we actually
booked this call around the time
that, so today I submitted at noon.
The half, half of the, the
next script that I'm writing.
So we're writing a, a movie that's,
uh, a little bit more in the, I would,
I would compare it into the genre of.
maybe severance, but it's a
story of a husband and wife
who move into their dream home.
And the husband discovers that
this new spark and excitement in
his marriage isn't his wife, but
actually a doppelganger that's
living somewhere inside of the house.
a deadly doppel.
Deadly doppelganger.
And so that, that's a, a fun.
I guess you could call it, but
also psychological thriller story
just about the, the people that we
present ourselves as and you know,
the, the difficulty of being truly
present, but being truly honest with
your partner and significant other.
And which is becoming, I guess,
a theme of like what I'm writing.
The alien country was a couple
story and there's another couple.
So not everything will just be about
couples, but, versus taking in a
relationship and what are you willing
to give and what are you, and versus
what are you taking a, in a relationship
and is that healthy or not healthy?
Are you losing your identity
in the relationship?
And so, yeah.
Yeah.
This one's a bit, a bit of a pivot
in the style of how we're going about
making it, in so much to say that
this, this idea has been like the
universe has sort of been pulling.
At it.
I, I pitched a month ago.
I'm like, Hey, I've written three films at
least short films and they're story ideas.
I have one about a dragon,
I have one about a spider.
I have one about a doppelganger, and
I just put these out on the internet
and said, which one sounds interesting?
And left that open.
And it was universally, we
got about like 80 20 or 70 30.
People just wanted the doppelganger
film as, and it was a pitch.
I like explained that pitch.
I showed them some of the ideas.
think what I really wanna be doing
and we wanted to do for Alien
country was really allow for audience
participation or, you know, communal
community participation as we created.
the very script.
So I, I now have, as
of today, noon o'clock.
Um, you know, by the time Artemis two
is around the, the far side of the
moon, we had 60 pages of draft one done.
So, so yeah, it's, it's it'll be probably
in that hour and a half to, to two hour.
I try to keep movies tighter.
As you save money, the shorter
you are the longer it gets, just
costs more money at this stage.
Daren: We
Renny and Boston: But, but, but yeah,
that, that film, that's the next one
we'll do, and I really want to build it.
You know, with the people who, who
wanna build it, I've even gone as
far as to say like there's a lot of
critics out there and I wanna approach
everyone who wrote a review on our film.
And say, you're really
good at dissecting films.
Would you like to come create one?
And even say to the critics, like,
come join us and weigh in on the
script phase so that we're not
waiting till the end to get your
really powerful or scathing notes.
So anyway, so that's what
we're that's what we're up to.
So that's called Significant
Others working title.
Garrett Batty: Yeah, that's it.
Outstanding.
I love it.
I love it that you're still
obsessed or possessed or driven
or whatever it is, you know?
And then, uh, I think that's.
Not many make a second film.
And so to see you do that and go, okay
I what you've learned will have so much
value, I think in what you're doing
now in including reaching out to the
audience beforehand that's so cool.
Renny and Boston: Thank you.
Garrett Batty: And I wish you
the best of luck for Very cool.
Renny and Boston: yeah.
No, I appreciate you having
us as well on the, yeah.
On the call and to talk about
our little crazy alien movie.
If you haven't seen Seen It, go
see it out there in Radioland.
Garrett Batty: Yeah.
And, uh, yeah, and we'll need to
put a link to it in the show notes.
But definitely check out the trailer
and, uh, it won't stop there.
You won't stop there once you
see the trailer, like, okay,
yeah, I gotta see this thing.
And it's very, very fun.
Daren: Very fun ride.
Yeah.
And thank you both for coming on.
'cause it's always great to talk with
people who have done it and we're all
nodding along the whole time like, yep, I
know that feeling and I know that phase.
And that's how it is.
And it's not like we're trying to
scare people away from this, but
we are trying to say it's fun, it's
possible, it's hard, it's difficult,
it's draining, but it's worth it.
So we appreciate you sharing
your story as well with us.
Renny and Boston: Appreciate it.
Thank you.
Garrett Batty: Okay.
Daren, any other notes?
You, everything's, you're going
into production here in two weeks.
He's,
Daren: than two weeks.
We're a week and a half away.
We start April 16th filming Brotherhood.
And goodness, it came too fast.
I thought we were gonna be.
Cruising because I was like,
oh, I'm demanding six months
of development of my director.
And he was really PPO in that idea.
He was like, how about two or three?
I was like, dude, we, it's a musical.
We got a lot to do.
Garrett Batty: yeah.
Daren: now that we're at like
six month mark and we're.
That was six months ago, and
he's can I have two more months?
Can I have three
Renny and Boston: For you.
Daren: It's oh yeah, I would
love a couple more months.
But, every movie has its own timeline
and every movie has, especially the ones
where, there's a god element involved.
It feels like there's a timeline that's
not ours and we're just, showing up every
day doing the work as best as we can.
So
Renny and Boston: Marcy
Gey and I go way back.
So maybe I'll have to have to shoot
her a text and sneak onto set sometime.
Daren: Please do.
You don't have to sneak, just tell
'em my name and you'll be there.
It'll be
Renny and Boston: I, I think it's
also super important to just point
out that like, I can't believe you're
doing a podcast while you're in.
Yeah.
This close to reproduction.
You have the brain that's super human.
That's like, yeah, that's that's
boss level, God level, right there.
Daren: I didn't do it for the
podcast, but it works out nicely.
We're shooting Tuesday through
Saturday on this movie,
Renny and Boston: Yeah.
Daren: Monday I've got free and
Renny and Boston: Alright.
We've got a little bit of time.
Daren: through the entire thing,
Renny and Boston: Interesting.
Garrett Batty: gonna be hearing
all of the wonderful war stories.
Renny and Boston: Two days off, we, yeah,
we, we did, we had a, we didn't have quite
the same, well we had a similar schedule.
It depended.
But yeah, when, when you're off, yeah.
I just like melted for a day.
I would just like sit on a couch.
And anyway, after the, I think the
day after principal photography was
the fir like we binged it was the
queen's gambit way back when was out.
And it was just like, I just, I, I
couldn't even get off the couch and.
Garrett Batty: Yeah.
Yeah.
Renny and Boston: So
Daren: yeah.
Renny and Boston: yeah, best
of luck and enjoy the ride.
Daren: Have you guys come
visit, come visit set.
It'll be
Renny and Boston: Great.
All right
Garrett Batty: good.
Thank you.
Congrats on another episode, and
please send your comments or show
notes or or questions and check
out Alan Country before next week.
Thanks, you guys.
Renny and Boston: Thanks guys.
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