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Welcome to In-Orbit, the fortnightly podcast exploring how technology from space is empowering a better world.
[00:00:00] Dallas Campbell: Hello and welcome to Outer Orbit. In these short bonus episodes, we will be continuing the chat from our main episodes, focusing in on a particular topic or a particular point of view and today we are sharing some expert insights from the fantastic speakers that attended the Catapult and the UK Space Agency's IOSM Conference earlier this year that explored the present and future of the In-Orbit Servicing and Manufacturing industry.
We asked our speakers, what does the UK need to do to ensure that it's a leader in IOSM? Paul Bate, CEO of the UK Space Agency.
[00:00:46] Paul Bate: So we already are taking quite the leadership position and the reason we're able to do that is we're combining the funding that helps particularly smaller companies to de-risk their technologies and get those ongoing contract, bring in the investment from the private sector, we're combining that funding with a strong, stable regulatory environment. So that makes a huge difference, particularly when you're looking for investment. The truth of space is that it's difficult, it's complex, it's hard. We're exploring the unknown, doing new things and from an investor point of view, they need to make sure that they understand the company's risks, but they also understand the risk of the environment. Are they going to be able to license that satellite? So when in 2018 the UK government proposed and Parliament passed the space laws that we now have, we were really kind of creating that field in which people could confidently play and so that combination of the funding and the regulation, two of the things that have really helped companies like Astroscale, like ClearSpace, OrbitFab, DeOrbit, so on and so on, come to the UK, set up their operations here and really push the absolute technological frontiers of what's now possible.
[00:02:01] Dallas Campbell: Lucy Edge, Chief of Missions at the Satellite Applications Catapult.
[00:02:05] Lucy Edge: Well, the thing about IOSM is it's such a difficult problem to solve and there are so many different ways of using it as well, that we just need everybody in the room who's part of the user group, who's part of the research group and all of the people involved in the stuff that seems to somehow sit around the edges but is absolutely critical. So thinking about the regulations, the management of the risk, we were talking earlier today about how we need boardrooms of major companies to think about this, so we need people who can tell the story very well, who can communicate brilliantly. They all need to be in the room together, otherwise we're just not going to get to where we need to get to in the time we need to get there.
[00:02:46] Dallas Campbell: Elie Allouis, Advanced Concepts and Robotics Team Lead at Airbus.
[00:02:50] Elie Allouis: Today, I think the UK has shown that it has a strategy to try to address some of these markets in the future. There's already a vision for active debris removal for example and this kind of becomes an extension of that and I think, provided there's supports and platforms for people to exchange ideas and build new machine concepts, I think that's going to be critical in the future.
[00:03:14] Dallas Campbell: How could IOSM transform non space industries? Katie King, CEO of BioOrbit.
[00:03:21] Katie King: I think IOSM has the capacity to revolutionise many different industries on Earth. The infrastructure is pretty much there now, which is very exciting because now we're going to see the development of the applications of this infrastructure, the use cases of which like my company is one of those and I think the industries that will benefit the most are healthcare, are pharma and also with like chip manufacturing, I think that's going to be huge and these are the first things that starts to make sense to make in space, but as time goes, it will start to make more sense to make even more products, that we don't even know yet and so I think that for now, pharma chips is probably what makes the most sense. I think the next thing will be like organoids and maybe like tissues that could be used back on Earth. What happens next, I think is anyone's guess at this point.
[00:04:19] Dallas Campbell: Lucy Edge.
[00:04:20] Lucy Edge: In the short term, I think the industry has focused very specifically on debris removal, capturing it, that agility around another body. So finding ways to approach safely and take hold of a body or even, you know, move towards fueling it or adding on a support system. Those kind of smaller steps in the first few years. This is what we need to fix first and by doing that, we demonstrate the ability to move in really close proximity. We demonstrate that that isn't going to create debris by causing a collision, because you're able to do that and that's then the starting point for really big changes, because that means you could start to manufacture things by assembling things together in space. If you can assemble things together in space you can build volumes that you can do clever things inside. So that might be a deposition growing of complex parts. It might be something more biological, perhaps to do with cell growth, or it might be to do with pharmaceuticals and development of products for them, or perhaps things like semiconductors. We know that's going to be an important part of what we will be doing in space. But in order to be able to do all of those things we talk about, you need to be able to create the environment to do it in and that's where you get to the assembly piece to make sure that's possible.
[00:05:46] Dallas Campbell: Joshua Weston, CEO and Co Founder of Spaceforge.
[00:05:51] Joshua Western: I think IOSM will transform Earth based or terrestrial industries in really in two major ways. The first of those is the opportunity we have within space manufacturing to really fundamentally change material science for the better. What we're focused on doing at Space Forge is manufacturing next generation compound semiconductors. We effectively make the crystals that become things like computer chips, but they also exist in cars, mobile telephones, the way that we communicate across those telephones, satellites themselves, aerospace systems and pretty much any sector and any machine you care to think of probably has at least one chip in it, if not thousands.
The opportunity that we have with space is that it is a much better manufacturing baseline for almost any industrial process. Specifically when it comes to something like semiconductors, the combination of high purity vacuum and microgravity means that we can create semiconductor crystals which are three to five orders of magnitude improved purity compared to those that can be made on the ground. That purity gain translates into significantly enhanced performance back here on Earth. We're talking 10 to 100 times performance improvements and I think that is an incredible opportunity to start leveraging space really, as a keystone of terrestrial manufacturing. So we only need to go to space to do that one little bit, but that one little bit has a phenomenal system impact back here and I think the second way in which it really helps us, work with Earth based industries, is when we can start to leverage things in space that are around us. For example, lunar or asteroid mining. So science fiction as that seems, there are companies out there working on it. If we have the opportunity as SpaceForge to leverage the raw materials and minerals that are extracted from those things that fly past us in the solar system, then we have an opportunity to stop having to take them out from Earth and bring them with us. The natural resources we have on Earth are finite, the solar system and certainly the universe we think is infinite and that opportunity to leverage those materials fundamentally changes the balance of those very finite natural resources we have here and I think that's incredibly important for how we actually think about the sustainability of our industry.
[00:07:59] Dallas Campbell: Why is IOSM going to be so important to the future of the UK? Rona Stewart, Business Development and Marketing Manager at The Exploration Company.
[00:08:10] Rona Stewart: I think In-Orbit Space Manufacturing is just at the very beginning of what it can do. At least from The Exploration Company, the company I work for, we're really trying to break open the industries who are not the traditional space players. So I think for IOSM that's going to be the big change in the next five years. So it won't just be the space companies who are doing In-Orbit Space Manufacturing, but it'll be companies like pharmaceuticals, medical companies, university researchers and the cosmetic company that can actually do manufacturing in space.
[00:08:37] Dallas Campbell: Paul Bate.
[00:08:38] Paul Bate: Well, the wonderful thing about IOSM is just how many different facets there are. So we are in the absolute starting point of getting close to satellites and bits of space debris so that we can safely de-orbit them. We have so many bits of debris, some of them large, some of them very dangerous, both the satellites and of course to the human beings in orbit on space stations. So we'll see that side of things grow, the removal of defunct satellites and rocket bodies. We'll also see satellites live for longer, being able to make active use of all that amazing technology on board, because you wouldn't buy a car and the first time it ran out of petrol, you'd buy another car. That's really not a very good way to exist. But that is fundamentally what happens with satellite. One of the main reasons that satellites, have to go out of commission, if you like, is because they simply run out of fuel. But In-Orbit Servicing, which is a fancy term for refueling, is exactly the sort of thing that can then make best use of the technology on board and of course it's very expensive to launch, particularly the largest satellites. So that's a valuable thing from a commercial point of view, as well as a sustainability point of view. But as we start to look out over 10 years, maybe over 15 or 20 years, we can start to harness technologies that just don't exist yet. So to give an example of that, Space-Based Solar Power, you know, even the hottest countries have nights. But by stationing satellites in space, they can be continuously in the sun's glare, with no atmosphere in between, no chance of rain or cloud. So the ability to create solar power stations in space is very much something that the UK is driving forwards. We have companies of our own in the UK funding to develop those technologies. Of course, what we'll do is we'll start with some of the core de-risking of the technology. How are you going to bring that power down from Earth in a really safe way? What we need to do is step down the power of the beam from the solar rays down through into the microwave and beam it back safely to Earth. So some of that beam forming and power transmission technology is very important. But we have to build them in space. These are very big structures, bigger than anything we've ever built in space. But ten, fifteen, twenty years ahead? We might just be harnessing the power of the sun in a way that we've never done on orbit before.
[00:11:05] Dallas Campbell: Elie Alouis.
[00:11:06] Elie Allouis: We can see the, the ecosystem is really emerging and it's really interesting to see a lot of different actors both, kind of, large entity SMEs, academia. I think a lot is going to depend on the way we can interact, interface and applications of standards and open standards, especially are going to be quite critical in the future.
[00:11:29] Dallas Campbell: Why are events like the IOSM conference so important to the industry? Thomas Clayson, CTO at Magdrive.
[00:11:37] Thomas Clayson: Events like this allow the community to discuss things much quicker than otherwise would happen. I'm able to do far more business development, I'm able to meet people which I haven't seen for a year or so, all at this one location.
[00:11:48] Dallas Campbell: Portia Bowman, Founder and CEO at Grobotics.
[00:11:51] Portia Bowman: Events like the conference are really important because it gets everybody together to make progress faster. I really like asking difficult questions that don't have answers and I think that sparks collaboration. I think getting different voices in the room and getting a bit of diversity of opinion is really important for innovation. I think it just kind of speeds everything up. It also really helps as a kind of small startup like Grobotics to meet people and to make those kind of partnerships and develop collections that might be with a customer, with a collaborator or even talk to, you know, agency level for future of grant funding or private investment as well.
[00:12:34] Dallas Campbell: Paul Bate.
[00:12:35] Paul Bate: Today's a very special day for the entire in orbit service assembly manufacturing community because it's the very first UK conference for IOSM. I'm very pleased to be here. I'm proud to be part of a community that's going to be pushing the very boundaries of space itself in order to bring the benefits to Earth, for our generation and for generations to come and I very much hope this is the first of many successful conferences.
[00:13:04] Dallas Campbell: Lucy Edge.
[00:13:05] Lucy Edge: I think we need the conference today for a few different reasons. Definitely it's about facilitating the conversations, the introductions. Hopefully people will go away from today knowing more than they knew, knowing more people than they knew in this field. But I think it's also a statement of intent, you know, the Space Agency and the Catapult co-founding and co-sponsoring a conference like this is a very clear signal of intent that we really want to make this work for the UK.
[00:13:38] Dallas Campbell: Rona Stewart.
[00:13:39] Rona Stewart: I think it's very important that we keep space inclusive. At the moment it's just very few nations that can go into space and very few companies that can get there. So I think having an event like this that's so open that even if you have no space knowledge before you can actually attend is very important. It really makes the education a lot more real.
[00:13:58] Dallas Campbell: Katie King.
[00:13:59] Katie King: Being at this conference now is critical because this is the first of its type, which I think really shows where the future of the space industry is heading. So I wanted to be here, I wanted to be a part of it, see what discussions are going on. But I think like, it will be so interesting to see how this conference develops over the next few years.
[00:14:18] Dallas Campbell: The IOSM conference will be back in 2025, so keep your eyes peeled for more information over the coming months and to hear future episodes of In-Orbit, be sure to subscribe on your favourite podcast app and to find out more about how space is empowering industries in between episodes, then you can visit the Catapult website or join them on social media.