Plenty with Kate Northrup

Plenty with Kate Northrup Trailer Bonus Episode 95 Season 1

95. Moving From Financial Hypervigilance and/or Dissociation to Resonance with Sarah Tacy

95. Moving From Financial Hypervigilance and/or Dissociation to Resonance with Sarah Tacy95. Moving From Financial Hypervigilance and/or Dissociation to Resonance with Sarah Tacy

00:00
How can we shift from financial stress to a state of resonance and flow? Join me and Sarah Tacy as we explore the nervous system’s role in transforming our relationships with oneself, others, and finances

In this episode of Plenty, I sit down with Sarah Tacy, a healer and nervous system expert, to explore how our body’s sense of safety often shapes our patterns of financial hypervigilance or dissociation. We dive into how healing is a relational process, the power of small, consistent steps, and why accompaniment—having the right support—is essential for lasting transformation. Sarah shares practical tools to regulate your nervous system, fostering a sense of ease not just with money but also in relationships, parenting, and self-care. This conversation is an invitation to shift from survival mode to thriving, helping you cultivate a deeper connection with yourself and your resources.

“Small steps of self-care start to bring you back to yourself, back to a sense of safety.” –Sarah Tacy

🎤 Let’s Dive into the Good Stuff on Plenty 🎤

(00:22) Guest Introduction: Sarah Tacy
(04:45) Understanding Nervous System Patterns
(07:27) Motor Patterns and Feedback
(09:32) Applying Feedback in Relationships
(11:44) Embodied Experiences in Healing
(14:29) The Need for Support
(17:52) Co-Regulation and Support
(19:33) Navigating Emotional Discomfort
(22:04) The Need for Community Support
(25:47) Tolerance vs. Resonance
(31:50) Untangling the Nervous System
(36:17) Navigating the Generative Field
(39:24) Understanding Control vs. Choice
(43:10) Stewardship in Financial Management
(44:35) Generative Relationships
(50:34) Regulation vs. Resonance
(55:52) Flow in Parenting and Money
(1:00:32) Understanding Financial Dysregulation

Links and Resources:

Amina AlTai
Simon Sinek
Dr. Becky
Peter Levine
Tele Darden

Connect with Sarah Tacy:

Website
Instagram
Podcast: Threshold Moments
Join Resoursed
 

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Related Episode:

Unlocking Nervous System Healing with Sarah Tacy

What is Plenty with Kate Northrup?

What if you could get more of what you want in life? But not through pushing, forcing, or pressure.

You can.

When it comes to money, time, and energy, no one’s gonna turn away more.

And Kate Northrup, Bestselling Author of Money: A Love Story and Do Less and host of Plenty, is here to help you expand your capacity to receive all of the best.

As a Money Empowerment OG who’s been at it for nearly 2 decades, Kate’s the abundance-oriented best friend you may not even know you’ve always needed.

Pull up a chair every week with top thought leaders, luminaries, and adventurers to learn how to have more abundance with ease.

Kate Northrup:

Yesterday's ceiling becomes today's floor.

Sarah Tacy:

And then that is often considered a quantum leap. It's, like, so small you can't see it. But when the ceiling becomes the floor that on a different map, the three directions map Yeah. Means that you've come to completion with something. Oh, that's cool.

Sarah Tacy:

So that thing that was a ceiling, and you don't even recognize it anymore. You wouldn't recognize this floor as the next person's ceiling below you.

Kate Northrup:

Right. No.

Sarah Tacy:

So it means you've actually completed that pattern, and that thing is not gonna trigger you anymore.

Kate Northrup:

Hello. I have one of my best friends on the podcast today, and she is the only person other than my husband who has been on Plenty twice. So her name is Sarah Tacy. She is an absolutely incredible healer of the body, wisdom keeper around the nervous system, and, and performance. But I don't mean performance necessarily in terms of, like, high performance and athletics, though, certainly, she has experience in that, but, like, really the fullest expression of being human.

Kate Northrup:

And some of my most profound insights about what it does mean to be alive have come in conversation with Sarah, including one that just happened now in this episode. So I'm really excited for you to learn from her and to witness us really exploring the nooks and crannies of how we can more fully feel our aliveness with safety, with capacity, with accompaniment, letting go of old patterning around thinking we have to do it all alone, letting go of maybe calming ourselves to the point of suppression, being in freeze. There's so many threads that I think you're gonna deeply relate to. And if you are wanting to heal your relationship with your children, with your spouse, with money, with yourself, you are in the right place. So enjoy this conversation with Sarah Tacy.

Kate Northrup:

Welcome to Plenty. I'm your host, Kate Northrup, and together, we are going on a journey to help you have an incredible relationship with money, time, and energy, and to have abundance on every possible level. Every week, we're gonna dive in with experts and insights to help you unlock a life of plenty. Let's go fill our cups. Please note that the opinions and perspectives of the guests on the Plenty podcast are not necessarily reflective of the opinions and perspectives of Kate Northrup or anyone who works within the Kate Northrup brand.

Kate Northrup:

Hi, Sarah.

Sarah Tacy:

Are we doing this?

Kate Northrup:

Yes. It's happening. Hi. Welcome.

Sarah Tacy:

Thanks for having me.

Kate Northrup:

Thanks for being here. So you are the only person who has been on the podcast more than once, other than Mike. He's he's been on twice as well, but you are you are the only other person. So welcome back. Thanks, Rachel.

Kate Northrup:

And I wanted to have you back officially because, a, I think you're so great. I think you're so wise. I learned so much about you. I mean, from you and about you. I love learning more about you, but I learned so much from you.

Kate Northrup:

And, when I had you on the first time, which was actually a replay of an episode you had me on on your podcast, but I was like, I really liked that conversation. Can I just put it live? Here, our audience ate it up. It's remained one

Speaker 3:

of our top listened to episodes of all time. So I was like,

Kate Northrup:

let's do it again Let's

Sarah Tacy:

do it again.

Kate Northrup:

But different Yeah. And in person.

Sarah Tacy:

Yeah. Well, you were on my podcast, but you, at the very beginning, were like, hey. Do you mind if I flip it and ask you some questions? Yeah. Yeah.

Sarah Tacy:

Let's do that. But it was fun.

Kate Northrup:

It was fun. Yeah. It was fun. Feel free, you know, I just my guest that I just had on before you came also, every now and again, asked me a question. So feel free if anything comes up.

Kate Northrup:

But okay. To begin with, you started off with, like, a deep love of the body as an athlete, a very competitive athlete, and then working in high performance after school, after college at in, like, what capacity would you call that?

Sarah Tacy:

So I did research and development for a sports training facility. Yep. But I also trained athletes.

Kate Northrup:

Yes.

Sarah Tacy:

Do you want me to say more on that before? I do. Yeah. Okay, great. What I would go back to say is when you said had a great love for the body as an athlete, I would actually say I didn't necessarily have a love for my body.

Sarah Tacy:

It was great, but I didn't pay attention. I just wanted It was there to perform. Right. So when I got injured, which I got injured a ton because I played so many hours of athletics every single day and trying to do school, I saw it as my body getting in the way of me getting done what I wanted to get done. And so it wasn't until I had a major injury that I really got that there was a mind body connection.

Sarah Tacy:

It was the first time I experienced any form of depression and seeing how much of my identity was wrapped up in my performance and how people saw me and also just the ability to perform. And it's then that my body switched from something I used to me realizing that my body was here to be a guide. So as an athlete, I didn't recognize it. It was the injuries that helped me to come to see my body as a guide and as a very wise teacher whose lessons aren't generally convenient. When she whispers and we listen, they can be convenient.

Sarah Tacy:

But when we wait for the yells or not, and actually the whispers are generally things that are quite risky and against our current patterns. And that's generally why we ignore the whispers in my experience. So then if I were to go on to your next element of working with athletes, the really cool thing that I learned, we worked with nervous system upregulation. So these days we talk about down regulating the nervous system. That was all about how to create habits and how to break down things that were no longer serving us.

Sarah Tacy:

And the thing that is useful now that I learned then was that you can't create a new pattern, a useful new pattern, an updated pattern in a state of fatigue. So if we did a six second sprint, it was like a five minute rest. If you were to try to learn something on a ladder or a plyo box

Kate Northrup:

where you're doing very quick new

Sarah Tacy:

patterns, it's six to twenty seconds because the body's gonna start fumbling really soon after. So if we gave ourselves that same permission now when we're learning something new to know that we're gonna fumble, we're gonna get a few reps right, we're gonna fumble, we're gonna get a few reps right, we're gonna fumble even more, and we're gonna need a lot of recovery and rest. That's how an athlete trains. That's how they up regulate their nervous system for new patterns. But anyway, that was twenty years ago.

Kate Northrup:

This is amazing. So that's what you were doing at it was called Blue Streak. Right? So that's what you were doing at Blue Streak. It was like six seconds of really intense and then five minutes of rest.

Sarah Tacy:

We waited till the heart rate got down to one twenty.

Kate Northrup:

Uh-huh. Mhmm. And that was a sign that the body was now ready for more. Correct.

Sarah Tacy:

Yeah. Yeah. Because when you go if you keep going, you fall into faulty, old, habitual patterns.

Kate Northrup:

If you keep pushing past when you're fatigued, you will always go into faulty, not helpful patterns. Correct.

Sarah Tacy:

Or

Kate Northrup:

what that's not what you said. But

Sarah Tacy:

That is correct. And the other amazing thing, which I'm sure we could draw into creating new money patterns, is we had them looking in a mirror. So it's a high speed treadmill. It was a six week program in order to get the motor engrams to update to a new pattern. So you think small bursts.

Kate Northrup:

Motor engrams? Engrams.

Sarah Tacy:

What is that? So that is the motor patterning that makes it, that you've done enough patterns that that it no longer has to go up to your conscious brain to be like, oh, now I'm gonna move my right foot like this. Or it just stays at the level of your spinal cord. So it's like muscle to spinal cord so that it skips you trying to have to figure it out. Cool.

Sarah Tacy:

So you have them look in the mirror and you're giving them feedback as they do it. And if you can get feedback within fifteen minutes of, excuse me, fifteen seconds of a rep, then you're more likely to be able to keep the pattern.

Kate Northrup:

The new pattern. Yes. Like feedback in terms of

Sarah Tacy:

So if somebody is running and I have my hand right above their knee and like, so great, keep getting your, keep getting your hand or your knee up to my hand. If they can do that while they're running, they're gonna be able to repeat it again. Whereas if you think about going to a therapy session

Kate Northrup:

Right.

Sarah Tacy:

And you get the feedback a week later about what you could have done better while you were in a fight with your husband the week before, and then two weeks later, the same thing happens. It's very hard when you're activated to suddenly be able to put in a new pattern. As soon as your amygdala is hot, no prefrontal cortex access, Right? So that part of your brain that, would say like, oh, we have this really new idea of, like, how are we gonna do things? It's not available when we get activated.

Kate Northrup:

Try a new, you know, interrupt this input output habituation situation. Okay. So I'm just curious since we're here talking about that. Like, how could we implement as adults, not necessarily in athletic training? Right?

Kate Northrup:

How could we implement that if we're wanting to repattern, like like, as an example, being less, reactive with our spouse. Mhmm. Right? Like, it's like, oh, there's an old pattern of, like, you know, I'll just use a real life example. Right?

Kate Northrup:

So Mike speaks to me in a particular tone of voice. I feel judged. Now I'm, you know, now we're in a thing. He's like, I'm not feeling judgmental of you right now, and I'm like, yeah, but the tone of your voice says it is. I mean, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Kate Northrup:

Right? And then we're, like, in a thing, I'm withdrawing. Right? Okay. So, of course, there's two people playing in that situation.

Kate Northrup:

But just from my end, what how could we apply that fifteen seconds of of feedback in a situation like that where we're wanting to change a pattern as a grow as a as a non athlete? Well, maybe I'm an athlete, but I've that has nothing to do

Sarah Tacy:

with running. What you're saying. I just wanna say I would be lying if I said I figured this out. Steve and I have fixed all our patterns, and we got

Kate Northrup:

this episode's not about marriage, but, like, you know, here

Sarah Tacy:

we are. Here we are. The idea is that you get practice runs. And so I think about it, we see this man, Jerry, every Friday. And sometimes Jerry's like, wow, you guys have really worked through that hard thing very well.

Sarah Tacy:

You've really listened to each other. And I say to him, I just know that we're doing it better because you're

Kate Northrup:

here. And- Right now you're watching us.

Speaker 3:

So we're doing it better.

Kate Northrup:

Right, we had a camera on you.

Sarah Tacy:

Like, it's just like, okay, I'm gonna pause. I'm gonna listen. I'm gonna, like, really take that in. And he's there and he can give us feedback. And because we've done it with him in our presence, we actually do do better when he's not there as well.

Sarah Tacy:

Right. And I had this conversation with Amanal Tai, who is a business coach for women. And she said, you know, we were talking about the same scenario, that this is also a time where you can work with your coach, where you practice a situation ahead of time. And you could even like practice having the person say something that is in a prickly tone. Just as I said, prickly tone, it reminds me that Sienna, my youngest daughter, her teacher brought that freeze in for us, which is really helpful in case it's helpful for you guys, where she's like, that felt prickly.

Sarah Tacy:

Yeah. So that it's not about the thing that's being said. It's great. And with nervous system work, the reason why I love it, and it reminds me of why I loved yoga when I first started, is we go into the body. We start by resourcing the body, noticing what's already stable, what's already well.

Sarah Tacy:

And then when we tap into a part that's hard, we tap into the activation. And so they're having an embodied experience of what is hard. It might be that conversation you had with Mike, right? We tap into it and then we start to resource you while you're in the feeling of it. And it makes it easier when you go back into it in real life because you've had an embodied experience of how to resource yourself while you feel activated.

Sarah Tacy:

And so what gets tricky here in these conversations is that now I've brought up having a therapist or having a coach and not everybody has access to that, but this does bring up the idea of going beyond self help. When I first started with alchemical alignment, which is, trauma resolution program and nervous system support, I remember asking one of the teachers, I was like, okay, but how do I do this on my own? She's like, well, part of this training is to learn to be in the company of another as you reprogram because so much of the trauma patterning, the trauma physiology is a sense of isolation and lack of choice. And so as we come into choice in new ways, when we do it in the presence of another, it helps to build those reps. And so if you don't have access to a therapist or a coach, you and I know, we've said so many times, like how wealthy we are in friendship and friendships is building friendships over time.

Sarah Tacy:

People you can lean into, people you can call for eight minutes and say like, I'm having a hard time. Can you help me practice with this? And, it's a massive resource. It's a thing that we call creating conditions and nervous system work so that you can be with activation. You create certain conditions and one of them is accompaniment.

Kate Northrup:

And so

Sarah Tacy:

even when you think about the athlete, they were accompanied. It wasn't just that they were seeing themselves. They were seeing themselves, but they were getting feedback from the outside. They were responding to the feedback. It was a relational dynamic.

Kate Northrup:

So what I'm really struck by is I think that, you know, this particularly American idea of rugged individualism Yeah. And that we that somehow we are more valuable, worthy, stronger when we have done something alone and that that needing support, even asking for support, wanting support, wanting company, wanting accompaniment somehow is a ding against our inherent ability or strength that it's like a sign, you know, that needing we needing, help is a sign of weakness or asking for help is a sign of weakness. And and in fact, you know, it really is actually a sign I I say asking for help is a sign of being human, but or needing help is a sign of being human. Like, let's take it off the spectrum of good or bad or strong or weak or whatever. It's just like we need each other at the end.

Kate Northrup:

Mhmm. Like, no judgment. Right? And I'm curious if there's anything for you in that just knowing what high performance background you come from and if there's anything you might care to share about your journey around accompaniment.

Sarah Tacy:

Yeah. I was a yoga teacher for over fifteen years. I taught, multidimensional yoga anatomy, and I, I loved it so much because it was such a great way for me to figure out my feelings, for me to give myself a massage. Right? Like, as I'm twisting and as I'm breathing, I'm like, I don't need a massage because I'm giving myself everything I need.

Sarah Tacy:

When I'm confused. If I do a twisting practice, it helps me, not go too deep into it or too far out of it and see from a new perspective. And I would often get these moments. So it was all these ways I can meet my own needs without needing anybody else. Wow.

Sarah Tacy:

And so much of the practice was also like, how do I stay calm? And so while the practice was invaluable to me and it was my sports psychology and it was my injury prevention, and then it was a career that helped bring so much, I think, freedom to so many of my clients and so much joy to me, The way that I used it was really self help. And that was such a huge thing in the nineties and the two thousands and twenty ten of the self help books and how do you fix yourself. So to move into a territory where one of the primary tenants is to say, when you come out of these patterns, don't come out alone. I have a really hard time picking up the phone when I'm having a hard time.

Sarah Tacy:

I'm working on it. I've reached out to our friend Janine to be like, can we do this thing? And maybe I've said it to you too. Like, this idea of when I do co listens with people in trainings, it's eight minutes. And then I've now heard Simon Sinek say this too.

Sarah Tacy:

I was like, oh, he's also doing eight minutes. And And it's this idea that with the eight minutes, it creates this co regulation. And so the idea too, is that we grew up having our generation, I think, often had parents, no matter how much they loved us, that were taught probably to say, If you're having a hard time, go up to your room when you feel better, when you've self regulated, then you can come back. And so it's just a pattern we've all learned. And this is more saying, it's a strategy because if I don't need you and I don't need anyone and I can do it all on my own, then I can feel safe.

Sarah Tacy:

But the truth of life is that at some point, whether through injury, illness, loneliness, needing to connect to somebody, we need each other.

Kate Northrup:

Yeah. Yeah. That piece around, you know, go back upstairs and come back when you feel better, it's so brutal, but I think about it, you know, I have really, really worked to sit with my edge. And I know you and I have talked about this a lot because, you know, we met when we were pregnant with our first, so we've done, like, the whole motherhood journey together. And our first babies were not the easiest.

Kate Northrup:

And, like, I mean, in many ways, our seconds weren't even but, anyway, it's been a

Sarah Tacy:

whole thing. It's a whole thing.

Kate Northrup:

It's been a whole thing. And, I have worked so much to sit in the discomfort of being present with my child's discomfort and, like, not just tell them to go away. Because, ultimately, what that's saying as a parent is it is so like, it is so uncomfortable for me to be around you that you have to go away. Like, essentially, like, your emotions hurt me too much to be around. Right?

Kate Northrup:

Mhmm. Which is pretty awful when we think about it that way. But I'm curious what you can say, what you would wanna share about our ability to for those of us, especially, who, like, are fixers Mhmm. And we have a history of being, like, the go to person to give advice or, like, be, like, I know what you should say or, you know, bipity boppity boop. Like, let's just be boppity Fix it.

Kate Northrup:

Boppity boppity boop. That's what

Sarah Tacy:

I would say to that.

Kate Northrup:

So what do we do for those of us who have struggled with that edge of feeling uncomfortable when we can't just fix something for someone? Our child, a friend, our spouse. From a nervous system perspective, how do we sit in those edges Mhmm. And not fix, but actually stay? And why is that even useful?

Sarah Tacy:

It's hard, and it's supposed to be hard. I am a fan of Doctor. Becky Kennedy. I'm guessing you probably

Kate Northrup:

are too. Doctor. Becky Good Inside on Instagram. I didn't even know her last name. Thank you

Sarah Tacy:

so much. I didn't either. I've recently learned it. I'm like, I'm sure she's kind of like Madonna. So, does she have a last name?

Kate Northrup:

No, she's just Doctor. Becky going inside.

Sarah Tacy:

So she's so great. And, you know, she will say that one of the most important things is that we aren't always patient with it so that we can do repair because it is hard. So actually sitting with somebody while they're having massive dysregulation is hard. And I know that, I don't know if you had this experience, but I know that when my baby cried when I was first breastfeeding, I would immediately produce milk. Like I would just start leaking.

Kate Northrup:

Yeah. You were a leaker. I was never a leaker.

Sarah Tacy:

But I leaked in particularly, like in response to crying. So what I, the reason why I say that is that our bodies have a biological desire to fix. So a cry releases both, like this oxytocin and a stress. I'm trying to think of the exact way that it comes out because sometimes those are hard to come together, but it does it. It's like both this connective feeling.

Kate Northrup:

Yeah. And

Sarah Tacy:

so part of me wants to normalize the urge that we have to fix and that in order to tolerate it, we have to have a really huge capacity. And as new parents, we don't have a big capacity because the way our society is set up is that we live in our own little boxes mostly, and most of us don't have a ton of help. And it's not like it was when there were aunts and uncles and cousins and grandmothers and etcetera, who were all part of the soup. And so it's not normal and it's not easy and it's hard because it's hard. And I will say that you are inspiring to me with this as well when you've reached out and just said, you've named one of your daughters and just said, wow, they have really big feelings tonight.

Sarah Tacy:

I guess that's a good sign that they feel so comfortable feeling. And I have seen you sit with them and it's so beautiful. And I think that we get to say it's hard. And I do this with clients all day long where I will look out and I purposely face my desk out to the woods. And so I see the base of trees and I look for things that are stable.

Sarah Tacy:

And so I'm constantly resourcing my body by things that are stable around me so that I can be stable as somebody might begin to spiral a little bit and I can offer them regulation and co regulation. And it's such a gift because most of us did not have that. And I do know that sometimes when I have a hard time, my fear of sharing it with somebody else is that it's gonna be too hard for them. Yes. And even sometimes when I wouldn't tell my parents things when I was younger, even though they probably wanted to know, I was so afraid that my parents would lose sleep or that they would.

Sarah Tacy:

So I was like, I guess I'll just

Kate Northrup:

I'll just handle this on my own, right, to not burden someone else.

Sarah Tacy:

So you get to have experiences of seeing your parents say like, I want to be here. And when we don't do it the way we wanna do it, like, I really wanna be here. And sometimes it's more than I'm able to hold and I'm gonna come back and I'm gonna have this redo, or can we have this redo? I have a program right now called resource. And part of it is this idea of like, how do we move from suppression as adults?

Sarah Tacy:

So instead of just, like, as our kids are having a hard time to having expressive outlets. And so this is what I've been playing with recently in my parenting is how, when I express more of my feelings in safe ways, so it's the healthy fight, healthy flight, healthy dorsal vagal, which is often like a collapse, but it's without leaving your range of resonance. When I start to express more of those things and move them, I can be with my kids without actually feeling triggered as much. And therefore, I'm not tolerating. Does that make sense?

Sarah Tacy:

Instead of using energy and tolerating to sit

Kate Northrup:

there and try to change it. Tolerance, just to be clear. Correct. Because right?

Sarah Tacy:

Right. Right. Because that can

Kate Northrup:

be Range of regulation, range of resonance. So can you talk about the difference between tolerance Mhmm. And resonance?

Sarah Tacy:

Yes. So when I'm talking about tolerance here, it has a feeling for me of suppression. Yeah. I can suppress Like, I'm

Kate Northrup:

just, like, handling this.

Sarah Tacy:

I am handling this. I, and this is a thing that has come up for me recently, because it turns out I still do this. I am going to hold it all together. I am going to be calm. And it turns out some of my calm is a freeze.

Sarah Tacy:

But it seems like I'm really handling it so well. And people might say to me, Sarah, how do you stay so calm? And am I calm?

Speaker 3:

And then there's also social rewards.

Sarah Tacy:

Right. Totally. Am I calm or am I frozen? Am I tolerating? And I know that I'm tolerating and I don't wanna throw shade on tolerating either or because there are times in life where that's just what's happening.

Sarah Tacy:

But I'm curious about how do I move into something that's more generative. And so my kids and I are doing more wrestling. And we're and like I said, my kids are five and nine, so this might not work if you have teenagers or a baby.

Kate Northrup:

Imagine if you're like, Okay. Right. Maybe. Or Or

Sarah Tacy:

a 16 year old.

Kate Northrup:

Girls will know.

Sarah Tacy:

I don't know.

Kate Northrup:

Depends on how big they are.

Sarah Tacy:

Yeah. Oh, my God. So age appropriate.

Kate Northrup:

Hilarious.

Sarah Tacy:

I am not using it as a fight outlet for myself.

Kate Northrup:

Right. Exactly.

Sarah Tacy:

But I'm giving my girls a fight outlet. Yeah. Because a lot of times we have fight energy that's inside of us that just needs an outlet and it starts coming out sideways as fighting with the siblings or they wanted something else to eat, but it's actually like we all have fight outlets. And as an athlete before, it's like, I'm gonna fight for that ball.

Kate Northrup:

Yeah.

Sarah Tacy:

I'm gonna have a flight outlet and run away from people on purpose. Right? It's all by choice. And so when I start building this in, it's wildly helpful. The other day, I felt felt like I wanted to cry, and I didn't really feel like I could do it at home, which might have been the healthy thing.

Sarah Tacy:

But I knew it would mean a conversation with Steve that I didn't wanna have at that point. So I was like, I'm gonna practice a healthy flight. So I said to Steve, I'm gonna go for a car ride. I am coming back. I am safe, but I'm gonna take some time because I'm having some feelings, and I just wanna be with them.

Sarah Tacy:

And being able to have that little bit of a healthy flight allowed me to really feel my feelings and to just cry without having to explain why I'm crying or, you know, have a story behind it. And when I came home, my oldest daughter was going through something and she was on the floor. And generally, I would sit there and, okay. I'm gonna be there with you. I'm not scared of your feelings.

Sarah Tacy:

Right? All the things. But now instead of acting, I could feel because I just let myself feel it. And so I laid I just laid down on next to the floor at, like, right distance. I just laid on the floor and just had this, like, had the feeling of, like, really feel.

Sarah Tacy:

And and not that I'm now merging with her. Now I'm not like it's just like, I'm just really here with you. Yeah. And then, eventually, without trying to fix it or forcing, I end up, you know, carrying her upstairs in my arms and we snuggle in her bed. And then next thing you know, we're laughing.

Sarah Tacy:

Mhmm. And it was because I allowed myself to have my own experience of like, oh, I am safe to cry. So, so often we're telling our kids, We're not afraid of your feelings. Right. But we are actually afraid to have those feelings ourselves.

Sarah Tacy:

And that's why it's tolerating.

Kate Northrup:

Mhmm. Yeah. It's so profound. And, you know, I've been thinking a lot about flow in life, financially and otherwise. And I've been thinking about metaphorical pipes in our lives and how a lot of different things can clog the pipes.

Kate Northrup:

Yeah. And what we're wanting is more flow, more ease. And one of the main ways we clog the pipes, I think, financially, but also with everything because it's all the same thing. We're just, like, all I I think our okay. I'll speak for myself.

Kate Northrup:

I want to let as much life force flow through my life Me too. As possible. Mhmm. You know, like, I'm here to feel alive. One of the ways that that happens practically is to be a conduit for more resources.

Kate Northrup:

Yes. Abundance, relationships, opportunity, creativity, like, all of those are are forms of life force, pleasure, joy, sadness, anger, all of it. And so one of the main ways that we clog the pipes is or they stay clogged. I don't you know, we're not actively clogged the pipes, but is is by not feeling our feelings. Yeah.

Kate Northrup:

And, I'm thinking about, you know, just like as you're talking about your girls and how the nervous system and I'm curious about your I mean, there's a lot of places we can go over this, but I'm curious your thoughts on this. So here's my theory. My theory about the nervous system is that so you know internal family systems work Mhmm. Parts work. Right?

Kate Northrup:

So IFS. So that we have, have, like, these parts of ourselves, and sometimes they're the protective parts. Sometimes they're the, exiled parts. There's just different parts. But usual like, oftentimes, they're parts of us that we're stuck at certain emotional ages because we experienced an emotional situation at that time that we didn't have the resources, support, or choice to be able to fully emotionally metabolize, so we just, like, get stuck.

Kate Northrup:

And then my theory is that our nervous system holds these points from those different ages. So, essentially, it's like when we do parts work, we're untangling the nervous system. And when you're talking about that moment with your daughter on the floor, it's like you were able to accompany her so that she didn't end up with a clog in that pipe that's, like, a little part of her nervous system that now is stuck at nine or what I don't know which gate it was. But, you know, like and I just I'm curious in your in all your work with people, what's your understanding? Does that make sense to you, and what else might you add?

Sarah Tacy:

Well, I would say that you defined trauma physiology exactly how Peter Levine defines it Oh. Where he says

Kate Northrup:

I have not listened to his work, but

Sarah Tacy:

that's good.

Kate Northrup:

Ding, ding, ding, ding.

Sarah Tacy:

You win. You are correct. He says it's not the event itself. It's whether or not our body was able to complete Okay. The, the urges or the unmet needs.

Sarah Tacy:

So if there was a flight and it was not met, there was a fight and it wasn't completed, if there was a cry and it wasn't followed through, like that the pattern gets stuck. And so when we go back somatically, we see, you know, someone might be like, I just can't shake it. And they'd be like, you know, and they might go like this with their hands and like, Oh, do you wanna And then you might notice like, it just like it gets stronger and they start to shake it out of their body or something where they weren't able to push somebody away or put right. And so you complete the patterns and it relieves so much energy. It's so energetically expensive when we hold on to unfinished patterns.

Sarah Tacy:

So it is, I wanna say exactly the same and the overlap sounds so right on. And I also going back to that moment with my child, in just reflecting on it now, what's so beautiful about it is that I didn't lay there with her and then get sad because of her sadness and then put her to bed and be sad because she's sad. I met my need and finished my pattern and was able to accompany her to finish her pattern. So we were both complete. She didn't go to bed with a mom who was totally distressed because she had a hard time.

Sarah Tacy:

We both completed a pattern. Yeah. And I'm gonna go back on this one more time just because this is what I'm super excited about right now is last year I went to Sarah Jenks's, I think she called it wild. I called that ceremony sacred feminine rage. And she had, you know, a big fire pit and everybody is dressed in black and dirt all over them.

Sarah Tacy:

And, she's banging her drum and she's getting into her ceremonial thing where she, and this one, I would say that she's kind of taunting the good one and taunting all parts that are trying to hold it together and be the perfect wife or, you know, the perfect good girl and, and really purposely calling forth the cry and the scream and the growl. And at first I'm like, it's not gonna touch me. And then before you know it, I'm like on all fours staring at across the fire, like growling at her and like go face to face and all the screams and yells and to feel safe to scream is another thing that, in the past, I would say it was, I was shown was like, that is a % not okay. That is not safe to not have it all together. It is not safe to not be the calm one.

Kate Northrup:

Yeah.

Sarah Tacy:

And so to have that moment allowed me so that when I went home and I saw my girls fighting and it wasn't just something for them to talk out because my younger one was like, but I love you. And the older one was like, I hate how you love me. You know, it was like, so it was like, it was just like a fight. And there was something in me. I just got on the ground and I was like, you wanna fight?

Sarah Tacy:

And she just like, we just started like, I know. And she's laughing and we're playing, and it just It moved the energy. And so this is what I'm talking about, generative. It's very different than sitting and tolerating and saying, I'm not scared of it. I've met it in myself, and now I will help you meet it.

Sarah Tacy:

And we will move it, and we will let it be generative. And this is what keeps coming through to me because the shadow side of the work that I've done in nervous system work is that I get really good at resourcing myself, really good at pacing, really good at, taking it one step at a time, preparing enough but not too much. So I'm not hyper or hypo. And then life can feel, in my experience, very pale, like, very I wanna be okay with neutral, but I also really want to feel alive. Yeah.

Sarah Tacy:

And I can sometimes shame myself if I feel like I'm moving slightly towards dysregulation first. I love the idea that there are healthy fight, flight, even self fawning that we can do to resource ourselves to move the energy so that almost like the athletic one that I the example I gave you where you're practicing it ahead of time, you're giving the outlet ahead of time so that when the actual activation comes, the urge isn't pent up. Right. There's less energy that has to come out, and so we get to meet the activation with more capacity, more choice. We get to meet the moment with a sense of more time, more perspective, more options

Kate Northrup:

Yeah.

Sarah Tacy:

When we feel more regulated.

Kate Northrup:

So funny. So I've been doing this sounds like it's not related, but it is. So I've been playing with AI recently Me too. To, like, do some back and forth and some cocreation around copy because I have felt I didn't realize this, but I have felt pretty lonely in my business because at the end of the day, like, I'm really the only one that the words come from, and we have a very words focused company. Right?

Kate Northrup:

It's a it's a it's a company of of of talking and and writing and messaging. And, I keep the AI, god bless her, keeps when I'm describing my ideal customer, she keeps using the phrase in control of her money. And I keep saying, no. Stop saying in control. My person wants to feel surrendered.

Kate Northrup:

She wants to feel at choice. Mhmm. She wants to allow, and it's so fascinating because AI is a reflection of our collective consciousness. How over and over and over again, despite me having asked a million times, the the phrasing being in control keeps coming out as her desired outcome. So I have a question for you.

Kate Northrup:

Okay. Great.

Sarah Tacy:

First, I wanna say that my AI keeps saying mine wants to be calm. And I was like Isn't that interesting? No. Because it hears nervous system and regulation, and it puts it with calm. Yeah.

Sarah Tacy:

So similar. But I'm wondering if you can describe to me the difference or maybe to the listeners just to add more color and depth to it, the difference you see between control and choice.

Kate Northrup:

Yeah. Okay. Great. Love that. So when when when I read the words, you know, and and so you'll let's just pretend the copy was, like, so you feel in control of your money, which is, like, not good copy, but for people.

Sarah Tacy:

I believe it'd be a site though.

Kate Northrup:

Right? Okay. But here's what I don't love about that. It speaks to the end of the spectrum, which we're gonna get to, and maybe this is our segue, where I notice that that people, myself included, toggle between a hypervigilance around money and a on the other end of the spectrum, where they're, like, watching every dollar, Oh my gosh, I can't spend that. Even if there's money in the bank, it's wrong or bad, or what if what if it all goes away.

Kate Northrup:

Right? Like, I have to track every single penny. I shouldn't buy lattes, you know, blah blah blah. And on the other end, it's like total disassociation where it's like, well, there's more where that came from anyway, and my, you know, it's, like, abundance mentality to just trust that it's all gonna work out, and I have other better, more important, interesting things to do than, like, you know, put percentages in certain accounts and make sure it's cared for and whatever. So disassociation, hypervigilance, obviously, those are extreme examples, but, like, that's what I see showing up.

Kate Northrup:

And when I hear in control of your money, to me, it feels closer to the hyper end of the spectrum, and it feels, like a contraction. It feels like a gripping. And for a woman who is ambitious, who earns well, who probably has been conditioned to be more in her masculine, I don't think that inviting her as a desire to be more in control is really the vibe. It's like not it. It doesn't feel juicy and alive to me.

Kate Northrup:

What do you think?

Sarah Tacy:

I'm getting excited because the word juice is now the, the main word that is, like, guiding me right now. So I love that.

Kate Northrup:

Right. Like, no one's in control when they're having an orgasm. And, like, when you're trying to be in control, you won't have one. So, like, let's use orgasm as the metaphor.

Sarah Tacy:

Yeah. Right? You just did. Do you want me to say more about it?

Kate Northrup:

Say more. Sure. What else do you want me to say? I'm like, well, you can

Sarah Tacy:

do this because it feels complete to me.

Kate Northrup:

That's it. Two sentences.

Sarah Tacy:

No, what I would say, I'm just so interested in this idea of feeling in control versus being controlling. Oh, that's interesting. I'm wondering if one feels in control, if it's a little bit closer to range of regulation, which, again, I can touch on regulation in a second, versus being controlling. But going back to orgasm, I would agree we might have to let go of the control. But it is

Kate Northrup:

true because, like, no one's like, oh, I wanna feel out of control with my money.

Sarah Tacy:

Right.

Kate Northrup:

But I'm just wondering, is there even another framework that we could so, like, it's like

Sarah Tacy:

So we're looking for the sacred third.

Kate Northrup:

Exactly. So it's not in control or out of control. It's so so what I've been working with is at choice, which AI doesn't like because it doesn't know what that means and neither do humans, or, stewardship. Like, feeling like she's in financial stewardship. So to me, what what I imagine when I talk about financial stewardship is, like, that there's an energetic flow and you're sort of dancing with it almost like a, what's that martial art, that works with spirals?

Kate Northrup:

Anyway. Yeah. Yep. That one.

Sarah Tacy:

It's probably the one Bridget does, and I can't do it right now. Aikido.

Kate Northrup:

Yes. So that one, where you're, like, taking the energy and moving with it and, like, and as opposed to, like, controlling it, you're well, it's not it's actually exactly what you described when you were lying with your daughter and being in your sadness, and you were both moving the energy, moving the emotional energy, so you had both moved to completion

Sarah Tacy:

Yeah.

Kate Northrup:

By bedtime. That's the same freaking thing. So it's not but wouldn't would you have said in that moment that you were in control?

Sarah Tacy:

I was just really present. Yeah. Mhmm. Exactly. I was just really present.

Sarah Tacy:

I think

Kate Northrup:

that's really what we crave. You're right.

Sarah Tacy:

It was the opposite of trying to control because I did an activity in family constellations at the beginning. We just play with different energy and show see what shows up for us. And this may be a little out there, so I'm wondering how this is gonna land for the listeners. But as I was talking to the person who was representing my healthy shadow or my healthy dark, I noticed that I was trying to manipulate it. And I noticed it was very much like my relationship with my older daughter sometimes of, like, how at what angle do I come in?

Sarah Tacy:

What is right distance? What is, like, like, I'm so trying to figure it out versus, like, yeah. I'm I'm gonna let you be there, and I'm gonna be here, and we'll see what you know, like, there and this for me comes back to this idea of the generative field where our actions bring more energy back to and through us and it is more fluid. And even the word stewardship, it reminds me of parenting in the way of like, we don't know the exact path. This is actually the activity we're gonna do at Relax Money Live.

Sarah Tacy:

We don't know the exact path. We don't know how it's gonna go. We don't know where we're gonna need more resources or where there are unmet needs or where we're gonna bump into something that we that lights us up that we didn't even know was there. And so I love I love the word stewardship. And now to answer range of regulation, this is a easy phrase for people to grab a hold of to say, this is the place where I feel like I'm in control.

Sarah Tacy:

And and it is often coupled with choice. Yes. I love looking at the range of regulation as a place where there is choice. I love looking at a place where there's pause. And more recently, I love looking at that range as a place where time feels more abundant.

Sarah Tacy:

So even for an athlete who has five seconds to shoot before the, you know, before the buzzer goes off. When they are in the zone and when they're in their range of resonance, they don't feel the, I don't have enough time to get this done. They see the way to get it done. They know the path within that time frame. When we get out of our range of resonance and you go into hyper, the story is I don't have enough time.

Kate Northrup:

Yeah.

Sarah Tacy:

And when you go into freeze, the time is so long. Mhmm. I can think of a time where I was so exhausted, many years of sleep deprivation, and it's, you know, 4AM. And I'm like, the day is starting, and I just how am am I gonna make it through another day?

Kate Northrup:

Totally.

Sarah Tacy:

And the time seems so slow. Yeah. And when people say, this is the best time in your life, it's gonna go by so fast. I'm like, it feels like it's going so slow. And it was this like hyper and these freezings a part of myself in order to be able to tolerate and be there and be calm.

Sarah Tacy:

So I love I've been really love how time has been coming into this for me. And that phrase that is not actually Viktor Frankl, but it has something to do about the space in between stimulus and response.

Kate Northrup:

It's not Viktor Frankl?

Sarah Tacy:

It's not. Oh. They don't know who said it. They say it is very similar to many of his theories, but nobody can find anywhere where he wrote that. Okay.

Sarah Tacy:

But the idea is that between stimulus and response, there's a space. And in that space, we have an opportunity to choose, and in our that choice, we have our power.

Kate Northrup:

Yeah. And our freedom.

Sarah Tacy:

And our freedom.

Kate Northrup:

And I think that's, like, ultimately, I don't know another way to say, like, in one word, being at choice, having power, having freedom. But in our culture, we call it feeling in control. Yeah. And I just think it's interesting.

Sarah Tacy:

Because interesting to live into feeling in control. Like, what does that really mean to you, to me, as we live into that question? Yeah. Maybe you're done with that question. I'm gonna Probably not.

Sarah Tacy:

Live into it a little bit. Verse controlling. I'm I'm interested to see if there is a difference there.

Kate Northrup:

I'm interested too because I think what it kicks up in me when I say feeling in control is my own wounding and patterning around feeling that I'm the one who's responsible for everything.

Sarah Tacy:

Yes.

Kate Northrup:

And that then goes into my hyper independence Yes. Circling us back to the beginning of our conversation. And so in my own wounding and patterning, it's, like, not the the best neighborhood to go into, whereas and that could be really different for someone who maybe was more floppy in their existence, you know, who was maybe more on the avoidance spectrum, more disassociated, or more, you know, in their in their expressed feminine without the structure, without the systems. And and and that's been something that I've needed to and I continue to grow into that place where I can surrender, where I can let go, where I can really trust that I am being held. So, I'm just projecting all over my copy.

Sarah Tacy:

But you're not the only one who feels that way. You're not the only one who has tried to control everything to feel safe, which, again, is controlling versus

Kate Northrup:

feeling in control.

Sarah Tacy:

But I will say that the person who brought to my attention the idea of a word update was Tal Darden.

Kate Northrup:

Mhmm.

Sarah Tacy:

When we were using the phrase range of regulation. Yes. And she was using the phrase range of resonance. And I said, why are you making that choice? Yeah.

Sarah Tacy:

And she said something along the lines and she said this in like a more public forum. So I think it's okay to say is the regulation can have a feel of, I think that people have tried to regulate our bodies, our choices. And so the regulation has that sense of control.

Kate Northrup:

It does. And and that And that calm, be calm, be regulated. You were saying of, like, am I in my range of regulation, or am I freezing or freezing?

Sarah Tacy:

You know? So that I can be calm.

Kate Northrup:

So that I can be calm and so that I can be pleasing.

Sarah Tacy:

These parts of myself get to live. Mhmm. The other interesting thing about range of resonance so if we start to shift that range of resonance is, like, I can feel my body here.

Kate Northrup:

I can

Sarah Tacy:

feel myself here.

Kate Northrup:

But, like, the word resonance itself, to me, it has a Right? So it's like a tuning fork. It's like when you're at a fancy restaurant and you, like, get your finger wet and, like, spin it around the glass the crystal wine glass, which you're not supposed to do, but it's, like, very sad.

Sarah Tacy:

Do you do that? Yeah.

Kate Northrup:

We should. It's very Yeah. It's very resonant. It creates a it creates this, like, beautiful high pitched and it feels good in the body versus regulation. Like, I'm, like, regulated feels like flat lines.

Sarah Tacy:

Flat. Yeah. So flat.

Kate Northrup:

Yeah. Okay. So maybe it'll come back to you, but oh, did it already? It did not.

Sarah Tacy:

Oh. I wanna say something. I wanna

Kate Northrup:

did that. We have sometimes,

Sarah Tacy:

I feel like when we talk, we have all these points that I wanna come back to. So let's come back in a second to the, something along the lines of moving from straight regulation into the generative field. So now we have words. Let's ramp up with some Stewardship.

Kate Northrup:

Yes.

Sarah Tacy:

Resonance. Yes. Generative. Yeah. Eros.

Sarah Tacy:

Juice. Words that I can attune to when I'm with my kids, when I'm with my husband. Like, what would Juice do here?

Kate Northrup:

Right.

Sarah Tacy:

What would Vitality do here? And one, I just wanna like, this is not a parenting podcast, but alas, another one that I've loved with my girls is sometimes I'll whisper to them. Yeah. Because the vagus nerve, right, goes through the voice box. And when we whisper, it resources me.

Sarah Tacy:

But when I whisper, it's like, We're in this together. So they lean in. So their body physiology is like, Oh, I'm on this person's team. That's cool. And now that I've whispered, I can't just be like, go upstairs.

Sarah Tacy:

It's time for bed, get your clothes on. I'm like, oh shoot, they bought in. And so this playful part comes out of me where I'm like, as literally as soon as they lean in, I'm like, oh my gosh, I have to come up with something somewhat fun because they've bought in and now we're on the same team. So it is generative instead of go upstairs. I told you it's the fifth time.

Sarah Tacy:

So if they're not listening, one thing, if they're not listening and I raise my voice, one thing we know about trauma is that when someone is feeling overstimulated, they actually stop hearing and they stop processing. So when you're like, Why aren't you listening? I've said it five times. Because their body is overwhelmed and they actually are completely blocking you off, and it is almost beyond their choice. So when I whisper, I'm inviting them in, and now the moment's getting juicy.

Sarah Tacy:

Yeah. And now it's getting filled with vitality. And so I'll be, Hey, do you want to get on my back? I literally, if you guys have teenagers, please tell me how you might ever use this. I don't know.

Sarah Tacy:

So this is for like a five and a nine year old. Do you want to get on my back? And then when we get upstairs, we can read

Kate Northrup:

a book. We can choose whatever book you want. They're like, Yeah.

Sarah Tacy:

And can this and that? And then they add to it. And now we are on the team and we're playing something. Again, now I'm in the generative field.

Kate Northrup:

Yeah. And

Sarah Tacy:

I am not tolerating. And so this is where I wanna move the conversation. This is what I'm so amped up up about right now is I love doctor Becky, and I actually don't think that she's for or against any of this. But I think so many parents in order to do parenting the way that is suggested is asking for us to resource outside of ourselves and in order to tolerate. So I'm very curious about how do we move into a relationship that's more creative

Kate Northrup:

Yeah.

Sarah Tacy:

And that when I do the thing, it actually brings more energy to me instead of drains the energy.

Kate Northrup:

I love this so much, and I just wanna honor that, like, so much of my most favorite insights have come through conversation with you, like, over the last decade. It's the best. This is so fun. And what I'm hearing you say with that idea of generative feels very connected to what we were talking about about feeling in control or regulated because generative, to me, creates an instant wonder, and we don't actually know what's gonna happen, so it gets far more interesting, and there's mystery. Yes.

Kate Northrup:

So there's aliveness there versus in control is, like, I have a plan, and now I'm gonna line up all my duckies in a row. Like, we're not trying to be in control of our children, for example. I mean, maybe sometimes we are. And but that's not the most helpful vibe when it comes to parenting. And and if you don't have kids, like, every single thing we are talking about can apply to your money.

Kate Northrup:

I the way I parent informs so much of the way I steward my money. Say more over here. I was like, oh my God, tell me now. Say more. Because it's the same thing.

Kate Northrup:

Like, my children came out of my body, but they are not they are of they are from me, but they are not mine. Right. And in order for wealth to be created, it must be in flow. It must be shared with the world, literally with investments, literally with crate you know, with buying assets. Like, if you just hold it under your mattress, it does not grow.

Kate Northrup:

Same thing with children. If we were to, like, keep them from the world and try to just hoard them, they would not grow. They would not thrive. It's an energy. It's a vitality that wants to cross pollinate, that wants to be out.

Kate Northrup:

But that does need boundaries, does need a strong container, does need bedtime. Yes. You know, does need dental hygiene. Yes. Does need, like, possibly a high yield savings account to be clear on what percentage needs to be put away for similar energy, and and I'm so happy we're just, like, talking about this with the words you're choosing, resonance and and generative and juicy and, like, and stewardship.

Sarah Tacy:

And as you say flow, you can't have flow

Kate Northrup:

Without an edge. Without

Sarah Tacy:

an edge. So without having Exactly. The bedtime. And with that because I'm not saying parenting where, like, the kids just right? It's No.

Sarah Tacy:

No. Actually, there are boundaries. Yeah. Or with money, there are some really good tips and tools and places to

Kate Northrup:

put it %. Really great practices. That makes the money feel safe in the same way that good boundaries and bedtime make a kid feel safe. Yes. Okay.

Kate Northrup:

So this is my last question, even though I could talk to you for a hundred more years, so I'm sure you'll come back.

Sarah Tacy:

You're still like, oh,

Kate Northrup:

what have we been getting? I talked about this, you know, the hypervigilance that I've noticed on the one end and the dissociation on the other end, which is the hyper hypo opposite ends of the range of resonance spectrum when you've popped out of your range of resonance

Sarah Tacy:

Yes.

Kate Northrup:

And how that shows up financially. Of course, it shows up a million other ways in our lives. And you talked about before we started recording this seven realms map and how that might help people ex understand what's happening there for them around their money. Can you explain more?

Sarah Tacy:

Yes. I got so excited when you asked this because I love maps, not for driving. I have like a GPS to tell me where to go. I love nervous system maps because they help me orient to where I am and where I wanna go and how I might get there. And when you ask this question, it's something that people experience with their money.

Sarah Tacy:

It's something they experience with their business goals. It's something people experience when they go to a retreat and then go home. When we have my favorite definition of stress is from Jerry Melliter, the man that I see on Fridays. It is stress is when we have more demands and resources. Don't you love it when people make it simple?

Sarah Tacy:

I don't make things simple. I fill it in. I color.

Kate Northrup:

It pays it. He's just like, you and I say, Boris. That's so good. Thank you, Jerry.

Sarah Tacy:

So the range of resonance, if you could see my hands, they are one stacked above the other, both facing the ground. When it's larger, we have a feeling, like we said, that there's there's time, we have choice. And when it's smaller, we tend to pendulate between We can pendulate between hyper and hypo. And inside the range of resonance, there are three stages. There's fast, medium, and slow.

Sarah Tacy:

So we can have slow health, meditation. We've We've talked about sex, so we could say slow sex, and we could say medium, we could say fast. Fast might be, again, I'm gonna keep bringing up athletes or a lawyer. You know, there can be, spiritual, mental, energetic, slow, medium, fast. Within there, there's a great range.

Sarah Tacy:

When we are feeling more demands than resources and possibly old patterns of, I must, I must, but I don't have enough time. So I must, I can't, we get into a double bind and this is called syndromal. So range of resonance has three places. Above it, we have fight or flight, which is the fourth. Below it, we have freeze, which is the fifth.

Sarah Tacy:

And then we have the sixth, which we'll talk about later on a different podcast. It's so good. And the seventh is syndromal. And it is that, when you get just a drop of energy in your well, a drop of water, then you're like, I must in order to survive, I'm going to do all the things I'm going to control. I'm going to follow through on everything that Kate said I should do with the finances and maybe the nervous system stuff gets left out or, or it might be like, I'm trying to do it all and you try to do it all and you maybe try to do it fast and you try to do it all and you use all of your energy and it's not in a generative way.

Sarah Tacy:

And then you drop down into collapse and you go to the other side and down there, because you tried so hard up there, there's the feeling of I must, but I can't. And the I can't weighs out more. And the freeze that might come with that would be like, so I don't exist and it doesn't exist. And you go into dissociation. And when you get a few more drops of energy and maybe you watch a motivating podcast or something, and you and you go right back up.

Sarah Tacy:

And so the question then would be, how do we move ourselves into the range of resonance? And my answer would be small focused actions of self care. And it might not be directly related to money at first. It might be a boundary. It might be saying no.

Sarah Tacy:

It is actually tending to your body and your energy. Going back to the very first part of the conversation when I said I thought my body was just to get me somewhere. Right? It's actually, if I can attend to my body, so my body feels safe, I'm not gonna go up and down quite as much. Mhmm.

Sarah Tacy:

Time is gonna begin to be my friend. And so small steps of self care. And last year, you gave the example do you mind if I go back to last year? Last year on the podcast, you gave the example of Mike got in a car accident. He needed help and attending to.

Sarah Tacy:

You needed to continue to run the business, but now more solo and pay all the bills. And so how is it possible to be relaxed when it feels like it's all on you? And the double bind of I must, I can't. I must take care of myself. I can't take care of myself.

Sarah Tacy:

I must make all the money. I can't if I get sick if I I'm also going too hard. So your small doable pieces of self care that you named last year were putting your feet on the grass. Five minutes. Mhmm.

Sarah Tacy:

Ten minutes. Going to the water, talking to the goddess. The goddess is a resource for you. Yeah. And some people, it may be.

Sarah Tacy:

It may be something else. And so those small beasts pieces of self care start to bring you back to yourself, back to a sense of safety, and the pendulation just doesn't happen quite as much. And we begin to spend more and more time in that range of resonance. I love to take away the shame just to say that life will happen. Yes.

Sarah Tacy:

Chaos will ensue. And so we are going to, if we are human, we are going to experience this regulation and regulation. But for me, getting to go like, oh my gosh, I am doing these massive swings. It happened for me when I first started to get some sleep where I was like, I'm gonna

Kate Northrup:

make a program. And the next day I was like,

Sarah Tacy:

or like, actually then I'd write an email and I tell people and people are like, I wanna sign up for your program. It's not happening anymore. Like it's the excitement of I have a drop of energy in the well, and now I'm gonna do it, and then the claps. So it's like smaller steps and over time.

Kate Northrup:

Mhmm. That's

Sarah Tacy:

great. And for me, that's just a lot of permission, and it's so helpful for me to have these maps to just be able to say, okay. I can see the pattern. Yeah. I can recognize it.

Sarah Tacy:

And I know that my mode is small steps and that things are going to change if I continue with my small steps of self care.

Kate Northrup:

Yeah. They do because those small steps are compounding. It's the same as compound interest. The nervous system, when we resource ourselves, yesterday's floor yesterday's ceiling becomes today's floor. Yes.

Kate Northrup:

And it grows over time. And then all of a sudden, you'll be in a situation where in the past, you would have responded with an old programming, and you're responding with the new. And you're like, oh, would you look at that? This seems to be working.

Sarah Tacy:

And then that is often considered a quantum leap. It's, like, so small you can't see it. But when the ceiling becomes the floor that on a different map, the three directions map Yeah. Means that you've come to completion with something.

Kate Northrup:

Oh, that's cool.

Sarah Tacy:

So that thing that was the ceiling and you don't even recognize it anymore. You wouldn't recognize this floor as the next person's ceiling below you. So it means you've actually completed that pattern and that thing is not gonna trigger you anymore.

Kate Northrup:

Now we're done.

Sarah Tacy:

So you don't even have to, again, go into the toleration. You don't have to tolerate it. Right. You don't have to use your tools, your nervous system tools to get through it. You have completed the pattern by doing small steps over time, and that is not gonna be the thing that triggers you.

Kate Northrup:

Which is the perfect kind of completion because, for our conversation today, you know, you are our resident nervous system healing space holder expert, whatever, in relaxed money. And one of the things that is, I think, unique about this program is it is a year. Yes. You know, I think our culture has conditioned us to want a quick fix, to be like, give me the two hour class, and I'll fix this thing. And it's like, well, when it comes to really deep dysregulation patterns, which I have never met anyone who doesn't have some kind of financial dysregulation, and then, of course, all the other dysregulation.

Kate Northrup:

Like, we all have nervous system patterning that is running our behavior, and then we try to override it with behavioral change and mindset. And those don't go anywhere near the source. They're nice, but they don't actually get the job done. But what you're saying is small, doable parts over time, and so that's why we have you every single month with our students.

Sarah Tacy:

Can I brag on your students for a second without I am so moved by the number of people who show up every month because I think it was you and Mike who told me nine years ago when you were hosting a gathering for an online course that you all affiliated for, and I was literally gonna pop out a baby the next day? I didn't pop out a baby. I was going to deliver a baby the next day. And you said 7% of people complete online courses?

Kate Northrup:

Some.

Sarah Tacy:

It was really small percentage. It's so small. I fall into that percentage. These people show up and some of them have been here. They're repeat students.

Sarah Tacy:

There are some people who are showing up month after month after month, and I am so in awe of their dedication to themselves. I am so moved and I like to remind them because sometimes we forget to celebrate our wins. And something that I've heard people have emailed me or I run into them at some events and they say that learning to go slow has changed their life. It changes their relationship with time. It changes their relationship with their family.

Sarah Tacy:

But something cool that is also happening is so if number six was global high intensity activation on the chart, woo hoo, we got to do it, is that so many people live in this place, which is go, go, go, go hustle culture. So we think slow is the antidote and moving towards slow over the time is so healing. But when we move into that range of resonance, we get to eventually play with what is healthy fast. And so I've gotten to watch and listen and talk to these people going through the course who talk about how slow has changed their life. And now some are saying, I'm playing with fast.

Kate Northrup:

So fun.

Sarah Tacy:

And not hustle fast, in my body, play. We're talking about play. And so I'm just loving, you know, I have also gotten to hear the changes people have had through doing your nervous system patterns and working with that with money. So I hear it on the financial level and I also hear it on relational and family and self, and it's really cool.

Kate Northrup:

That's so amazing.

Sarah Tacy:

And sometimes I think because I do a similar meditation every month, but add a little, new or different nugget, will I be able to cover the things? There's so many things I wanna share. And it is really amazing when you have a year to just do a little piece at a time and then a whole month to digest it and a little piece of the time. It what what can happen? Yeah.

Sarah Tacy:

The quantum leap. So good. Mhmm.

Kate Northrup:

So good. Thank you, Sarah. It's such a pleasure to have you here. This is so much fun.

Sarah Tacy:

To be here.

Kate Northrup:

If of course, you know, you're in relax money, relax money season is coming up. So for those listening, we will open the doors to the program the April, and Sarah's in there every month with folks. However, that's not the only place that people can connect with you. So where can they learn more? Where can they connect?

Kate Northrup:

Mhmm.

Sarah Tacy:

I have a program called Resource that I will be running again in September. So we'll just have a link if people want to get on the wait list. I have a podcast called Threshold Moments. And I really, like, I use Instagram a little bit. What else would I say?

Sarah Tacy:

Oh, I have a free re resource two free resources. One is called 21 of untapped support. So it's, again, just noticing the resources that you already have around you. That's great. And the new one coming out is called Suppression to Expression.

Sarah Tacy:

And I am so excited for it. So you can get it now. The link is there, and the program will it's free and will come out in probably April or May.

Kate Northrup:

Okay. Great.

Sarah Tacy:

I'm so excited for that one.

Kate Northrup:

So exciting. Okay. Amazing. We'll have all of that in the show. Thank you for being here.

Sarah Tacy:

Thanks for having me.

Kate Northrup:

Thanks for listening to this episode of Plenty. If you enjoyed it, make sure you subscribe, leave a rating, leave a review. That's one of the best ways that you can ensure to spread the abundance of plenty with others. You can even text it to a friend and tell them to listen in. And if you want even more support to expand your abundance, head over to katenorthrup.com/breakthroughs, where you can grab my free money breakthrough guide that details the biggest money breakthroughs from some of the top earning women I know, plus a mini lesson accompanying it with my own biggest money breakthroughs and a nervous system healing tool for you to expand your abundance.

Kate Northrup:

Again, that's over at katenorthrup.com/breakthroughs. See you next time.