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Do Good Work is not a label but a way of living.
It is the constant and diligent effort to achieve a new level of excellence in one’s own life.
It is the hidden inner beauty behind the struggle to achieve excellence.
It is not perfect but imperfect.
It is the effort, discipline and focus that often goes unnoticed.
The goal of this podcast is to highlight that drive.
The guests I have on this show emulate this drive in their own special way. You’ll be able to apply new ideas into your own life by learning from them.
We will also have 1on1 episodes with me where we’ll dive into my own experiences with entrepreneurship and leadership.
Every episode is designed to provide you with ideas that you can apply and grow in excellence in all areas of your life, business and career.
Do Good Work,
Raul
INTRO
PODCAST
raul-_1_08-15-2024_101357:
Daniel, welcome to the pod.
daniel_1_08-15-2024_191358:
Thank you, Raul.
It's great to be here.
raul-_1_08-15-2024_101357: We are in
both sides of the world, different
time zones, but present here together,
can you share a little bit more about
who you are and a little bit of what
your history and context and what
led you to the work you do today?
daniel_1_08-15-2024_191358: Sure.
So I'm originally from New York.
I'm American.
My name is Daniel, as you
introduced me already.
And in terms of the work that I'm
doing today, I'm a leadership coach.
I coach a lot of people one on one.
I work with teams globally from around
the world on their team development.
I do a lot of leadership training and I
have a mastermind leadership group now
that I've founded that is Truly unlike
anything else I've seen because it brings
together the rigor and the focus of all
of these different training programs
that I've done, but the sustainability
and the accountability of coaching.
And that's something I
haven't seen out there.
So that's been a big focus
of the past half year for me.
And in terms of how I got
into this work, I got into it
totally through the back door.
Things in life often make
more sense in hindsight.
So it does look when I look backwards,
like there's somehow a red thread.
Yeah.
But in the midst of it all, it
just felt like I was following a
whole bunch of different impulses.
I have degrees in psychology and
economics, which is the part that
makes it all look like it makes sense.
But I detoured in everything from
working in a cancer hospital,
to working in architecture, to
setting up a hotel in Morocco.
And through all of that, finding
a path into leadership through
ballroom dance of all things
and using movement and using embodied
leadership as a way of helping
CEOs figure out their leadership
style and their followership style.
And that was something I started about
15 years ago and led me to a whole
journey of discovering that there's
a huge field of leadership that is.
Both fruitful and at the same time,
old school and dry and needs a revamp.
And I've been trying to offer as many
fresh and different and cutting edge and
deep perspectives as I can to leaders,
large and small around the world.
So that's a bit of my background.
raul-_1_08-15-2024_101357: I like that.
You're bringing a modern approach
to an existing system, but
then also shaking things up.
I think one of the things that excited
me the most when we're reviewing The work
that you do is almost like instilling
at least with the founders that I work
with It's sometimes scary to step away
And there's the dichotomy of okay, you
have a team you're scaling But then
sometimes the team does not have the
same ownership mentality i'd love to
know a little bit more about how you work
with leaders to develop that within the
teams But then second if it's not done
correctly then everything bottlenecks
to the leadership the founder or whoever
is the owner of the business they're
the only ones that can solve any single
problem versus empowering others to
solve problems and really leverage
people for their innate skill sets that
they're in a role for, but also their
ability to lead themselves and others in
situations that you can never plan for.
So let's dive a little bit about that.
We'll let them know what your
thoughts around instilling ownership
mentality within teams, but also
in a really, human centered way.
daniel_1_08-15-2024_191358: Yeah.
I work a lot with founders
of very successful scale ups.
I myself am a founder of this leadership
mastermind that I, told you about.
So I am seeing it from all sides.
And I think that, from the
perspective of a founder.
It is all hands on deck.
You just want to get everything
done that needs to get done.
It doesn't matter who does it.
The eyes on the prize.
There's so much endless
amount of stuff to do.
The to do list never stops.
And so I understand and have a lot of
sympathy and compassion for how difficult
it is to instill any kind of leadership
culture or any kind of secession thinking
or any kind of upskilling for the next
generation when you yourself are just.
knee deep or sometimes over your head
in the amount of responsibilities that
it takes to keep a business growing.
So I really do get it and more so in
the past a couple of years as I've been
in my own business, how just complete
other priority it feels to be thinking
about helping future employees and
future generations of people prepare
to adopt all of the skills that you
have and be able to hand that over.
And with that compassion in mind,
it is completely unacceptable
for leaders to not do that.
Because what I see so often is that
while leaders are focusing on all the
things that need to be done to keep
a business afloat, which is generally
getting cash into the business so
that it just has that constant fuel.
There is a secondary factor that ends
up being the factor that determines
whether these startups turn into
scale ups and ultimately turn into
successful, sustainable companies.
And that has to do with culture, and
it has to do with this thing that I see
more and more, which is helping founders
understand what their unique gifts
are, what their unique contributions
are, what their unique responsibilities
are, and starting from the very
earliest days to begin teaching other
people how to think in the same way.
And I see this through a few different
bodies of work that I work closely with.
One of them is a body of work from
a guy named Peter Koenig around
source and all about how founders
are the source of a company.
And that comes with a certain almost
divine intuition of what is needed next.
There's a felt sense that a founder
has of what to do and what not
to do and where to look and what
the next thing on the horizon is.
And that is magic.
And that is something that absolutely
is not replaceable by someone else
until the founders become aware of that
skill and start helping other people
understand where it comes from and what
it feels like and what to pay attention
to and what not to pay attention to.
And at some point, Source, this idea
of Source, Can actually be handed over.
It's something that you can formally
hand over to other people in the company.
You can help people step into their
own sense of source, even within the
specific roles that they have, and that
allows them to make decisions that are
as high quality as a founder would make.
And the other body of work that I'm
interested in is based off of a book
from banning company called the founders
mentality that looks at what are the
specific things that are present in
an organization in the early days.
That are present because things are so
lean and so focused and so high speed and
so connected to things like the uniqueness
of a company and what it is trying
to change in the market and how close
it is to the customers and how action
based it is and not, bureaucratic it is.
And how those are the factors that make
the company so successful at the start.
But as companies grow, typically beyond
30, 40, 50 people, it's those very same
things that made it so successful in
the beginning that it starts losing.
And as more and more people join
the company, as the company gets
larger, as it grows, as it gets more
successful, there tends to be a stepping
away from the very dimensions that
made the company so successful at
the start and people start becoming
more competitive against each other.
Silo starts to develop.
There's more internal focus on bureaucracy
and on politics and on a headquarters and
less focus on the very thing that made
the company so successful in the first
place, which is focusing on customers
and focusing on the bottom line and
focusing on frontline empowerment and
focusing on being different from everyone
else and focusing on doing things to
learn and experiment and be agile as
opposed to doing things for, politics
or game playing or getting ahead.
That's skill.
Is a skill, the founders mentality,
the thing that is, it's sourcing
this can also be handed over.
It can be taught.
It can be shadowed.
It can be apprenticed, but if the
founder is not focused on that as they
begin to grow into their next role and
potentially exit the company and think
about who's going to take over, nobody
else is ready to do it because they
haven't been thinking in those terms.
And that's part of this work that I
think founders do way too late and
then have to spend a huge amount of
time catching up if they even can
to try to make up for that lost time
of really preparing the next generation
to take over a company and lead it.
raul-_1_08-15-2024_101357: Yeah.
Cause it's not like forefront important.
Help me bring that down to earth.
Like how do founders actually
implement this in day to day?
Like, how are you helping
teams do this in real life?
daniel_1_08-15-2024_191358:
come to me, very often they are
coming at the point of crisis.
So I'll give
you
raul-_1_08-15-2024_101357: they don't
seek help outside of themselves until
daniel_1_08-15-2024_191358: exactly right.
So I think there's one thing
around how would you do this if
you had the intuition and the
foresight to do it in advance versus
raul-_1_08-15-2024_101357: let's
talk about that in stages, right?
Like, how do you do this?
Early, like one to five years.
How do you do this, once you're
growing and you've at the 20, 30 people
and then bring in and also, how you
actually do this when there's crisis?
daniel_1_08-15-2024_191358: the crisis
raul-_1_08-15-2024_101357:
a change management piece.
daniel_1_08-15-2024_191358: if you're
thinking about this right at the
beginning, what it means is going back
to a classic model that we know so
well from so many different age old
industries of apprenticeship, right?
And
apprenticeship is nothing more than
helping your people be in every single
meeting in every single context in
every single Important conversation,
not as participators, but as people
who are just listening and observing
and learning by watching, right?
That's what apprenticeship is.
It's somebody standing next to
the master and just watching
and learning and dissecting.
And so I'll tell you
what.
raul-_1_08-15-2024_101357:
very specific leaders, right?
You can't just have the
whole team on those meetings
daniel_1_08-15-2024_191358: if we're
talking about a company size that
is 1 to 5 people, then you can't
raul-_1_08-15-2024_101357: You,
want everyone.
daniel_1_08-15-2024_191358:
Right there at the start.
Now, does it mean that all of those people
need to be prepared to be future leaders?
Probably not, right?
I would choose who do I think
from those original people
that I'm bringing on board?
Do I want to already start to
understand the values that are so
deeply intuitive and inherent to me,
but are not necessarily to other people?
And so what that means is, for example,
like in my company right now, which is
called the modern leader, I am training
someone to one day take it over from me.
And that means that in addition to
having all of our normal synchronization
meetings, where we're covering metrics
and project updates and how the clients
are doing and looking at next steps and
tasks and whatever, there's specific
time also allocated for him to ask me.
about questions based on decisions.
He sees me make conversations.
He sees me have
coaching.
He sees me do.
And then I actually asked him to play back
first to me what he noticed, why he thinks
that I did what I did and what he would
have done if he was in the situation.
And I use
that.
raul-_1_08-15-2024_101357: let's pause
that for a second because that's a
brilliant technique It's almost like
I call it the three C's coaching like
three options and then from there
make a choice and then tell me why
That choice and then from there, I'll
tell you what choice I would make but
this is I like this approach can you
repeat that three step process again?
daniel_1_08-15-2024_191358: Yeah.
So the process is every week when
we speak, he needs to choose one
situation that he observed me do
something that was challenging, right?
Something that he saw me do
that was a difficult decision
that week or a difficult moment.
Then he needs to analyze what was going
on in that situation and understand it.
First of all, from the challenge
itself, I want to hear his thoughts
and see how he breaks it down and
what he thinks was difficult about it.
And within doing that to share what he
then saw me do that handled the situation,
because I also want to hear what he
is observing in terms of my skill set
and start to play that back to him if
he's missing key things that I'm doing.
So that's the second step, right?
The first step is to pick out
a situation that's challenging.
The second step is to then analyze
what it is that is challenging
about the situation and what I did.
And the third thing is I want
to hear what he would have done
if he was in the situation.
Would it be
different?
Would it be similar?
I'm not perfect.
I'm not the only way
that we can do things.
He could totally have a
different way of doing it.
I don't care what the way
is that he's doing it.
What I care about is to hear his thinking.
I want to understand that he is starting
to look at it through a value set
or a metric or a filter that aligns
with what I'm looking at it through.
And this is apprenticeship,
raul-_1_08-15-2024_101357: has
to be a match, there has to be a
match there, because even if it
was dramatically different, this
is not the next person in line,
daniel_1_08-15-2024_191358: That's right.
Or I feel that there is enough opportunity
to coach that is worth the investment.
And ultimately, what this conversation
is a coaching conversation, right?
It is not a telling conversation.
It is not a teaching conversation.
It's me coaching him to understand first
where he's at and what he can improve.
And then on top of that, if I feel
there's still learning points that haven't
landed, then I can add that afterwards.
That is something that leaders
should be doing with the
major players in their team.
right from the start.
raul-_1_08-15-2024_101357: yeah.
No, I hear that, I think the word shirt
can be really hard you should work out
every day and eat healthy and sleep 8
hours and you should not be in debt, but I
daniel_1_08-15-2024_191358: Nobody
said leadership is easy, right?
raul-_1_08-15-2024_101357: one said it!
No, that is the key
daniel_1_08-15-2024_191358: And I do.
As I said, I have a huge compassion
for this because I really understand
how easy it is to get totally
flooded by everything else going on.
I think that the issue is that we
believe Because of so many different
examples that the hard skills
and the hard metrics and the hard
improvements are somehow more important
to focus on than these soft skills.
And in the beginning they
are important, right?
Because if you
can't get business in, clients
in the business will sink.
And all I'm saying is that right
now I see most startups not spending
any time on this leadership stuff.
And if they would increase it even
by 10 or 20%, I'm not talking about
using a whole meeting in those
meetings that I'm talking about
with this one member of my team.
If we have a 60 minute catch up meeting a
week, we're using 10 minutes at the end of
this meeting to do what I just described.
raul-_1_08-15-2024_101357: Yeah, it
doesn't have to absorb the whole thing.
So I see the value here and it was just
like a tongue in cheek comment, but
a quick note on the sauce goes hard.
I think thankfully, and there's a lot
of great things that have been happening
with AI, but thankfully, and I had this
thesis since like over 10 years ago is
the more technologically advanced that
we get, the more human we have to become.
So thankfully now with all the AI,
all these key pieces that are like,
Obsoleting certain job functions
or making things more effective.
One person can do three people's work.
I think that does force us.
There is a negative to that
where people can just like, Oh,
I don't need to talk to humans.
I can just do it through machines.
But in the flip side, it does force
us to focus on the other things that
make us innately talented or unique
and versus just what a machine can do.
So I think this is one
of those key things.
Let's put it in also in perspective.
Most of the teams I work with here,
Eight people, 40, 50 people, some a
little bit larger but it does rain.
It ranges from that.
And I can definitely see different
hierarchy levels, of leadership, but
they typically have an inner circle
of leadership or executive crew.
Maybe it's three or five people as a
leader in their journey and their path.
How do they do this just for everyone
in their executive team, or is it
always going to be for the person
who's going to take over the company?
How do you decide what's the
framework to use to decide?
Cause the tools that you just mentioned
are pivotal and I think it's necessary,
but how do you decide who to include?
Why include that person?
Is it depending on your
goals in the business?
If you want to exit, is it because you
want the business to continue without you?
Help me think through some of
that thinking or that framework.
daniel_1_08-15-2024_191358: So I think
first, what's important to identify
is what happens around 30 or 40 people
that is different than 10 or 15.
To me, everything changes in a business.
The moment that you cannot fit everyone
in your company in one room anymore.
raul-_1_08-15-2024_101357: like,
the layers of communication and
To coach people
daniel_1_08-15-2024_191358: exactly
the moment that people hear things
through secondhand information,
all of the amazing dynamics of
miscommunication and misunderstanding
start rearing up their ugly faces
and that is just reality, right?
So part of recognizing the growth
that happens in a startup or
scale up is recognizing that in
the very beginning, everybody is
directly connected to the founder.
They hear them firsthand and they
get to absorb that inspiration and
that excitement and that vision.
And the moment that people are
hearing it through a second layer,
it's going to be translated.
It's going to be distilled.
It's going to be watered down.
with that in mind, the thing that founders
want to be thinking about all the time.
Is how do they show up as a leader
that not only is inspiring to everybody
around them because they are so
amazing, but is also starting to help
other people become leaders that are
inspiring as well within their company.
The entire thing cannot
rest on one person.
It can, when it's five people, it
can, when it's 10 people, it can, even
when it's 20 or 25, but there's that
critical moment where suddenly people
are hearing information from their boss.
And not from you.
And it's at that moment that
founders need to be thinking about.
How do I start to instill
a leadership culture?
So a leadership culture means not.
I am just putting someone in charge
of other people because they happen to
be the only person there and they've
been doing the job for long enough.
And so let me get them promoted, but
actually identifying what are the
leadership qualities that I stand for?
What are the leadership quality
that this company stands for?
And how do I start looking and filtering
through that lens to decide who I promote?
So when you're asking me who do
I look for to start developing?
What I would say is first identify
what am I looking for that is going
to support this company to move into
the successful future and then start
to see either who naturally gravitates
and fits into those descriptions.
Or how do I start
actively training people?
How do I start bringing
in the kind of support?
How do I start amplifying and
increasing what I'm doing to a degree
that other people actually become
leaders in the company and not just.
followers or people who got
promoted because they happen
to be there for a while.
And that's what I
commonly see is that most startups
are promoting people who are totally
unqualified to be leaders, have
zero experience in leadership.
They're just good at their individual
contribution skill, have been there
for a while, and now they're put
in charge of managing other people,
but not leading other people.
And if you can make that switch from
identifying people who are managers to
looking for people who are leaders, you
start to instill a culture in which That
second hand information that gets passed
on is just as valuable as that first
hand information that they hear from you.
And that's where you can start scouting
and looking for who could potentially be.
This next generation of people that
steps up when the time is ready for them.
raul-_1_08-15-2024_101357: Yeah, and
not everyone is fit to lead, because
not everyone has the potential,
everyone has the potential, but I
just don't think everyone has the
character or the habits or the ironing.
Like you mentioned, not
everyone's fit to lead,
daniel_1_08-15-2024_191358: And
not everyone wants to lead, right?
Like it's
super important to recognize that
having an expert who's, an SME in
their area and just wants to dive
deep into their topic is amazing.
And you need those people who just
want to get the work done and want to
be evaluated on their own performance.
But there are people who want to grow,
who want to develop into leadership.
I totally agree with you that
leadership is someone anyone can learn.
I don't think we only have born leaders.
I completely believe we can make
leaders, but we need to have
a leadership culture in place
and someone who is holding that and
sponsoring that and fighting for that.
And the only person who can
do that, especially in a
small company is the founder.
And most often I see founders
so distracted by other things.
That they assume that leadership
and culture will just manifest
naturally, and it doesn't right.
What manifests instead is a dysfunctional
culture, a culture in which things are
not working, a culture in which there
is no leadership, and that then opens
up this crisis phase that I mentioned
before, where people then end up
contacting me and saying, What do we do?
raul-_1_08-15-2024_101357: Yeah, that's
fascinating Sometimes just seeing
it from the inside and for some past
clients is that the founder needs their
own time Sometimes they need to mature
enough to learn that this is actually
the most important thing Especially in
a labor intensive business your people
are the most important And then once
they get that wake up call, they're
like, okay, now I should admit it.
And sometimes you can convince
them of that in the beginning.
Not that you should look to convince.
But I also think it's like a person needs
to realize that for themselves first.
Ideally without hazard
and crisis happening.
daniel_1_08-15-2024_191358: And, the
reality is that it's usually hazard and
crisis that wakes us up to change, right?
So
most
raul-_1_08-15-2024_101357: it
sounds, the friction has to happen.
daniel_1_08-15-2024_191358:
this has to happen, right?
And I also think there's something
beautiful about recognizing
what you just mentioned.
which is it has to happen
at the right time, right?
And an organization is nothing more than
a mirror and an amplifier of the founder.
So all of the shadow sides of the
founder, all the parts of themselves that
they're not interested in looking at.
All of the aspects that they
haven't yet explored only become
amplified and become larger than
life in an organization as it grows.
And so if someone as a leader has not
taken any time to explore who they are,
what their values are, what their limiting
beliefs are, what their patterns are,
what their traumas are, what they've
inherited from their childhood and never
unmasked and unpacked and worked on,
they will at some point be confronted
by those things through the organization
because the organization acts like, okay.
Both an echo chamber and a
mirror of all of the things
that are going on inside them.
So I find that what most often happens
is that in the beginning, founders
are totally uninterested in this
work because the company is hopefully
doing well, things are growing and
they don't see the reason for it.
And at a certain point, they
start noticing that there are.
Patterns and behaviors and things
showing up in the company that are
so against what they actually want.
And so working against the vision
and the mission and the purpose and
so dysfunctional towards creating
a healthy, sustainable, trust built
company that they find themselves.
Looking into a company that
they almost don't recognize and
asking, how did this happen?
What is
it that I did or didn't do that could
create a culture where there is so
much competition, mistrust, people
trying to step over each other.
And when we look into that in more detail,
we see that there is nothing that happens
in a culture of a founder's company.
That wasn't somehow in place in their
own personality or in the parts of
their personality that they aren't
willing to look at when they realize
that because the company for them is
usually so important and something
like a, a child or a baby for them.
There's enough incentive for the first
time to start doing coaching, to start
working on themselves, to understand
what's going on within their own dynamics
and limiting beliefs and patterns.
And the moment they start working
on that, they realize that these
are the exact same factors that are
play in the larger organization,
raul-_1_08-15-2024_101357: Yeah, and I
think it's an interesting echo what you're
saying here that I've heard and seen in
the past is that your clients are a mirror
of who you are, and the organization
is a mirror of your personality,
daniel_1_08-15-2024_191358:
a hundred percent.
raul-_1_08-15-2024_101357: as we
hate to admit that we're still human.
Organizations are organisms, just
humans collaborating together.
And if that's led by ideas and
words, and that's the most powerful
communication is the most powerful thing.
daniel_1_08-15-2024_191358:
And it's a beautiful thing.
I love that, If we flip it around and
say, what an exciting opportunity to
have such a huge mirror in front of our
faces that plays back to us every day,
whether we're making improvements or not.
There's very few things in life besides
work and personal relationships that
give us the opportunity to actually
do this kind of self development work.
And in relationships, unless there's, a
therapist or someone involved, it often
just spirals into its own nasty dynamics.
So it's work where we actually have
the structures and the incentives and
potentially the support to actually
move through those dynamics and to
understand what's happening rather
than just feeling victim to it.
And I think that's part of the beauty of
work is that it gives us so much chance.
We're there for so many hours a day.
We're dealing with so many
different types of people.
It gives us so much chance to actually
do the personal journey work that one
way or another has to happen, whether we
decide to do it there or somewhere else.
And why not do it there then?
raul-_1_08-15-2024_101357: yeah,
I find that there should be
baby steps to take this journey.
There's books and I
think those are helpful.
Do you have an app where people
can actually work through
exercises to figure that out?
Like self coaching?
There has to be a way for people to
this in a low cost subscription way
cause sometimes bringing in a coach,
you gotta, Vet coaches feel comfortable
with the team's comfortable with the
whole process, but then books are great,
but that's only helping one person.
And I've seen there was
another person on the podcast.
She created an app that does like
leadership stuff and lessons for teams.
It wasn't a perfect solution, but I
feel like it's going down this route is
how do we actively take action towards
this framework, either to self develop.
And then when you're ready to
bring in that next person that can
help you actually walk and guide
you do you know those resources?
That's something that you've developed.
daniel_1_08-15-2024_191358: So this is
exactly the startup that I created, right?
Because here's what I saw over the 15
years that I've been doing this work,
which is there are two ways generally in
which companies try to develop people.
The first way is they send them
on a leadership program, right?
And the leadership program is often
like a two, three day, four day thing.
Super impactful, super high
energy, super connecting.
And a week later, everybody
has forgotten everything.
That's the first thing, right?
raul-_1_08-15-2024_101357: Throwing money
at a problem doesn't always solve the
daniel_1_08-15-2024_191358: Absolutely.
And great content, by
the way, if people could
sustain the content.
Great programs.
So that's the first thing.
And that has been like a real difficult
pill for me to swallow because I'm very
often the trainer of these programs.
And so to recognize that I'm
doing amazing work that people
forget about in a week is painful.
Now, here's the second piece that
people send often high potential
or talents, top talents to, which
is one on one coaching, right?
I'm also one on one coach.
So I receive a lot of top talents
from companies who say, we need this
person to be upskilled in leadership.
And what I've started saying back
is, look, one on one coaching
is amazing, but there is zero
consistency in one on one coaching.
There is zero pre planned
programming or training.
It is just a follow the
conversation type of experience.
And I cannot guarantee that this
person will become the kind of
leader that your organization
needs because there's no standard.
There's no model that
we're basing that on.
So I found myself stuck in a gap
between doing trainings that have
incredible content but no follow up
and accountability, doing coachings
that have incredible accountability and
follow up, but no training and content.
And that is where I created this
program that I mentioned to you,
which is called the modern leader.
Which is bringing together the best
of both of these worlds, which is
a program that is mostly online.
Also has some in person aspects, gives
you a plan, gives you a training, but also
gives you the support, the accountability
and the community to keep going.
Learn about the content at your own pace.
There's a million amazing videos and
pieces of content that we push towards
you as you are ready to work on specific
elements of your leadership, but you
also have the in person touch points.
That makes sure that it's actually
customized and that it allows
you to move at your own speed.
And for a company, this is the solution
that I'm starting to see, which is as I
speak more and more to the clients that
I have that are really trying to say,
how do I get people involved in a first
step interaction with leadership, right?
Not like at the complex high levels
of like very sophisticated leadership,
but rather what you were just asking
about learning the essentials, learning
the basics, something that's low
cost, something that's entry level.
And This is exactly what I've created
that has really a dimensional based model
that if you go through this program, you
are guaranteed to come out a fantastic
leader at various levels, depending on
which level you enter the program at,
and then companies can look at how do we
then take this further and support that.
And honestly, obviously, I'd rather
much easier for me to talk about
someone else's program than my own
because talking about my own stuff
just feels incredibly narcissistic.
I have not seen anything
else out there like this.
That's why I created it.
I haven't seen any program and I've
led thousands of them that cracked both
the content and accountability balance.
And that's why I created
the modern leader.
raul-_1_08-15-2024_101357: I like that.
How do companies keep an account?
If I'm a founder, but If I send teams
to that, cause I've also had this too,
like I paid for subscriptions, I'm
not going to name names, but I paid
for this for people to go, how do I
keep tabs and accountability of the
progress that someone else is making
and ensuring that they're taking action
so I can see the fruits of them, not
just again, throw money at a problem.
How do you help organizations keep
that accountability so that they
know that the people that they're
sending it through are taking action.
daniel_1_08-15-2024_191358:
There's three parts to that.
So the first is we have to agree on.
Leadership dimensions and capabilities
that we both think are important, right?
So there's how are we
actually assessing people now?
I've developed a model that
has nine dimensions that sit
under three main dimensions.
I believe that model is universal.
The subtitle of the program has
become someone worth following.
And I believe that if
you learn these skills.
In these dimensions that
I've put together, you will
be someone worth following.
And when I work with organizations, what
we do is overlap my model with theirs.
And it generally is a one to one
fit because these criteria and
these skills are so fundamental
to what every leader needs.
So we need to agree first on
what the model is that we're
both saying makes a good leader,
makes someone worth following.
Then, in terms of actual experience in the
program itself, everything is automated.
You can see completely how
much people are participating.
There's lots of different checkpoints
and assessments and steps along the
way that help you see, okay, these
people are attending these courses,
they've completed these modules, they
have completed these assessments,
they've completed these quizzes, they
are applying this amount of stuff.
And as they move through the
model and through the program,
you can see the different parts
of the program that they have.
Essentially gotten credit for that
match with the overall model that we
have agreed with the client is what
makes a good leader in their context.
But then the last and most important.
Indicator of whether they're
actually doing this stuff
is how they show up at work.
And that has been the most amazing thing.
We just see the benefits of it.
And I've seen people who go through
this program who are not just feeling
more confident, feeling more focused,
feeling more able, but that they are
getting so much feedback from other
people around them who are saying,
Oh my God, what has changed in you?
And how do I spend more time with you?
And how do I get mentored by you?
And how did you become so calm and how
did you handle this situation so well?
And that is the feedback that
ultimately says whether these
types of programs work or not.
And it's been for me, honestly, really
humbling to see that after so many years
of spending so much time investing in
lots of programs that have not produced
that kind of impact that after only a few
months of going through this one, people
are already getting that kind of feedback.
And I think that to me is the ultimate
ROI that any leader sending a person on
a program like this would want to get.
raul-_1_08-15-2024_101357: Yeah.
And I think from a business model
perspective, it's cool to see how
you played with the different models.
The, cause this is a similar,
like the coaching thing.
You do live events, you do speaking,
or you do one on one and it's cool
that you found an interim model where
it's more like the daily golden nuggets
for them to continue every day versus
this whole grandiose mountain that
they have to climb over a weekend.
And I think for our
listeners, they're one like.
Leadership, definitely invest in and
check out we'll send where people can
check out the program, but second, also
get inspired for how you can leverage
deliverables in a way that meets the
market needs in an interesting way, and
also actually gets them better results.
Even if that does mean changing
the business model, changing the
approach and changing the delivery
and packaging that solution.
So I find that fascinating
from both fronts.
Daniel, for our listeners out there,
where's the best place for people to want?
Thank you for being on and to
learn more about your work.
daniel_1_08-15-2024_191358: Yeah
the normal social media channel.
So on Instagram, Daniel dot Ludovic
on LinkedIn, the same name and
the website is move leadership.
com.
So if they enter into any of those
places, they can get in touch.
And I would love to hear about
what some of their challenges are.
raul-_1_08-15-2024_101357: Wonderful.
Daniel, put those links in the
show notes and we'll go from here.
Thank you for being on.
daniel_1_08-15-2024_191358: Thank you.
It was great to talk to you.
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