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"The Kibbitz," is a podcast hosted by Melissa and Andrea, two middle-aged Jewish moms/wives/women from the Midwest, who see a lack of representation of their demographic in the media -- and they have A LOT to say. Writing buddies who spent more time talking than writing is where the podcast was born. Their voices, their viewpoints -- and those of their peers -- are really worth sharing, and the best way to do it is through The Kibbitz.
Andrea and Melissa (00:26)
Hey, I'm Andrea. And I'm Melissa, and this is the Kibbitz. Mishpocha. It's been a bit. And this is a great opportunity to introduce a really cool guest, Melissa Frey. Yes. And she is here to talk about summer camps and Israel immersives and the joy that it brings us. I am a summer camp alum.
And a teen tour alum. And Melissa? I am not, but my daughter is. And so I kind of lived vicariously through her and seeing her experience doing summer camp, the URJ camps. We both know as moms for sure. And for me personally, how transformative Jewish experiences like this are. And mine was in the 80s.
Did last a little bit. Yeah. Well, it was very different than summer camps are now. For example, you put your medicine in packs and hand it to the nurse, and I don't remember that happening when I was at camp. but the camp that I went to is URJ Goldman Union Camp Institute. The bathhouse is the same as it was when I was there. And my daughter enjoyed that. That's where both our daughters went. Yeah, yeah. And then I also did my teen tour.
So we have with us Melissa Frey from URJ. Melissa, would you introduce yourself? Because I'm gonna mess it up.
Melissa Frey (01:57)
I'd be happy to. It's such a delight to be here with both of you. My name is Melissa Frey. I serve as the Union for Reform Judaism's Executive Director of Israel Experiences for URJ Camps and Immersives. I'm currently in Ramat Ghan, Israel. I've been in Israel for the past five weeks with our various groups that have been on the ground here experiencing an incredible summer.
real like outside of Israel regular school year world I actually live in Westfield, Indiana. And I yes, it's true. And and love being there and our friends at Gucci are dear dear friends. It's so it is it's really incredible to do this work and also be situated in in Indiana in the middle of the country.
So it's a joy.
Andrea and Melissa (02:59)
Fellow Midwesterner, I love it.
Melissa Frey (03:00)
Yeah.
Andrea and Melissa (03:01)
Yes. Welcome to the Midwestern Mama Club.
Melissa Frey (03:05)
All right, right.
Andrea and Melissa (03:07)
So we're gonna discuss the history of Jewish camps, what
Melissa Frey (03:12)
Yeah.
Andrea and Melissa (03:12)
they bring to our community, and also the Israel trips and where they're going to go in the future. So, my understanding of the summer camp movement is it started with
Immigrant populations where immigrant kids were stuck in the cities, and philanthropists were pretty sure that they were being ruined by the bad air and bad communities that would happen in the city, and had to get them to the healing, fresh air of the country. That's how summer camps started. But do you want to talk about how they really grew from let's Americanize immigrants to
a more Zionist and more living a Jewish lifestyle sort of idea.
Melissa Frey (04:02)
Sure. I think that, you know, Jewish summer camp in North America really did start as part of assimilating young people to be more North American. And over a period of time, that really evolved to include a deeper embracing of Jewish history, Jewish traditions, Jewish culture, our connection to Zionism, our love and support of Israel.
And I think that, you know, as we've seen that relationship evolve and grow over the years and our young people's pride and their Jewish identity and their connection to Israel, in their really embracing Jewish culture, that camp has become this incredible landing place of belonging and acceptance and a real starting point.
For young people to identify an independent Jewish journey. Independent a little bit of their parents, they're with their counselors and with the staff at camp. They can start to chart their own course in identifying like their Jewish trajectory. And camp is this incredibly loving, committed, safe place to augment what happens the rest of the year in terms of their Jewish experience.
Andrea and Melissa (05:31)
Fantastic. and you are specifically representing the reform movement summer camps.
Melissa Frey (05:38)
I do. I work for the Union for Reform Judaism. We have fourteen summer camps across North America. And s eleven of them are geographically based and three of them are specialty camps.
Andrea and Melissa (05:51)
So going back to the history of the camps, can you tell me how they moved from assimilation to Jewish peoplehood and Zionism? I know that there is a point where they were more about getting back to the land and working, a little bit more like a communist or socialist plan that eventually grew into Zionism. How does the URJ camps move into that? Because there are different sorts of movements in the camps.
Melissa Frey (06:22)
Sure.
And I think that a a some of that has evolved over the years on a camp by camp basis and their what's happening geographically in their part of the country and what's been prioritized. I think that one of the common threads certainly is Jewish culture and the incredible place of Jewish music that happened throughout the camping system and how all of a sudden
music and song and joyful worship experiences that were so different that were than what oftentimes were happening throughout the rest of the year were really creating this underpinning and growth that really defined generations of young people and that music all of a sudden became this common melody that brought
English and Hebrew together into one space and really elevated that deep, deep connection that so many of our young people have felt, not only if they've you know attended camp as campers, but then if they came back on staff, and then how that really began to permeate through the incredible faculty that serve on our camps as our rabbis, cantors, educators, youth professionals, who then would take that.
joyful Judaism back into their congregations and communities. And that is really where this began to just grow and evolve in such a profound way over decades of time.
Andrea and Melissa (07:57)
We need to at this moment have a shout out to Dan Nichols. I was just thinking that.
Melissa Frey (08:01)
Yes.
Andrea and Melissa (08:01)
Yep. He was he was our first guest. Isn't he wonderful? And I went to camp
Melissa Frey (08:04)
I listened, I heard it, yeah. Yes,
Andrea and Melissa (08:08)
with him.
Melissa Frey (08:09)
yes.
Andrea and Melissa (08:11)
So the idea that the joyful Jewish music connects us and it connects us to our kids in a wonderful way. It's funny because I was just having a conversation with my daughter this week. We were on a road trip and she was playing music that she had listened to in camp because we had we were on a lake and we were outside in nature and
Melissa Frey (08:34)
yeah.
Andrea and Melissa (08:34)
sh it reminded her of that environment and that experience. And she was talking also about the two songs.
That her counselors sang every night before they went to sleep. And those were the ones that she remembers. So music is indelible to that experience. Yeah. I didn't think we were going to go towards music, but you are so right. and my daughter is now a song leader in our congreg congregation. And
Melissa Frey (08:58)
how wonderful.
Andrea and Melissa (09:00)
it started. It started at camp. Her desire to be that one special person that everyone looks up to. And the fact that the music
Connects her to her peers and now the kids that she teaches music to. Debbie
Friedman, Dan Nichols,
Melissa Frey (09:14)
Me. Yeah.
Andrea and Melissa (09:16)
and there's so many people that we get to feel a connection to because of their music. Okay. Yeah. Well, and actually, so that kind of leads into the questions that we were going to ask you next about what makes camp magical? Because I truly believe that it does have this magical environment for these kids.
is there something about living Jewishly every day versus when they're home, they're dealing with secular school, but they're going to religious school, they're doing Hebrew school, they're doing Sunday school, once a week. I and now they're experiencing this on a daily basis. why is a month such an important amount of time or more for these kids to live in that environment?
Melissa Frey (10:01)
It's such a great question. It it's really so speaks to the core of what we do in terms of our immersive experiences, both in camps and in Israel. And I think it's a combination, like the magic, the secret sauce comes from incredibly powerful, intentional leaders who are our camp directors and their director teams who are leading these spaces.
the kind of culture and community that they're creating, how they're training their summer staff to really be the ones who are bringing that to life for our campers in the summer. I think I, you know, in my years working with our camping system, it's not lost on me that for many of our campers, whether they're from large communities, they're from very small communities, they're from different parts of the country,
Some may go to day school, some may go to religious schools, some are not affiliated with the movement. And they come together in these this you know incredibly safe and sacred space that becomes very familiar very quickly. They realize the first time they walk into a tefilah or worship experience that all of them sing the baraku and the shema exactly the same.
And all of a sudden there's this common language, and common again, the music is part of this that connects them in a way that they have never in the same way with a group of peers their age felt connected to their Judaism. And that is where you know Hebrew becomes central to our Jewish identity when we think about how we worship together. I think
the safety and sense of belonging and accessibility that camp provides. Where when I I was a camp director for 12 years and I used to tell my staff that, you know, we have an obligation to every one of these young people that comes into our care because every one of them is the most important person in the world to someone. And they deserve to be treated that way. And
That
is how our camp teams, you know, welcome and embrace every single camper for exactly who they are, every staff member for who they show up at camp as, and really celebrate that. That is part of the beauty of the community that's created at camp. And I also have to say that one of the things that is so unique to camp that I
truly I've tried to find examples over the years and spent a lot of times time thinking about this and actually writing about it too is the power that we have at camp to give our teens a break from screens and social media. The fact that camp for three to four weeks is a cell phone free and tablet free space gives our kids the break their brains deeply need.
and puts them in an environment where they actually talk to each other and they look up and they see each other and they look around and they embrace community. And I can't really underestimate the value of these screen free environments for our young people and how much that helps us even increase
the opportunities that are presented at camp to build community, to build our own teens and campers' life skills, resilience, grit, determination, pride and Jewish identity, all of these pieces are amplified by the human connections that happen at camp. And that's simply not scalable in any other part of their lives the way that it is when they're in our care at camp for the in the summer.
Andrea and Melissa (14:10)
So important. It is. Thank you so much. You have hit on many things I had wanted to talk about. my daughter is about to go to college, and I am a smother. I'm going to admit it. And at the parenting visit, I I talked to the dean of admissions and I was like, My kid's gonna be okay. She went to camp for a month. And the dean of admissions actually said to me, Kids that go to camp are gonna be fine. They
Melissa Frey (14:36)
They are.
Andrea and Melissa (14:37)
know.
how to take care of themselves for a month.
And one of the things that I think is so cool is she got to share a room with a dozen other girls and learn how to get along with them.
Melissa Frey (14:52)
Yes.
Andrea and Melissa (14:53)
That's right. Some some kids that go off to school have not never had that experience. And so
Melissa Frey (14:58)
Correct.
Andrea and Melissa (14:59)
and there's a lot of compromise and conflict that comes up when living with other people your age, other peers. And sharing of clothing. Yeah. Bathroom space. Bathroom space.
Melissa Frey (15:09)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea and Melissa (15:10)
different personalities mixing together. Some incredible life skills that are really hard to replicate anywhere else.
Melissa Frey (15:19)
Yes.
Andrea and Melissa (15:21)
And then things like if I'm sick, how do I advocate for myself? How do I figure out how to get my laundry clean?
Melissa Frey (15:28)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea and Melissa (15:29)
Big stuff. So and I think that's one of the things you're talking about, the the grit and the community that comes out of it.
Melissa Frey (15:37)
Yes.
Andrea and Melissa (15:37)
can you talk more about how you do that in a pedagogical way? Like how you set the camp up to create Jewish people that that really flourish.
Melissa Frey (15:49)
Sure. I think that this happens in again in different ways in different camps, but I think that as a baseline, you know, we are doing a tremendous amount of ongoing professional development with our full-time year-round camp staffs, everything from that range in pedagog pedagogical and education, how we're bringing Jewish literacy, Jewish living, our connection to Israel, all of those pieces into the camp environment.
To how we're thinking about what is happening in the mesh space, the mental, emotional, social, and spiritual health of every camper. that we are really thinking about all of these things very intentionally and all of them through a Jewish lens. And, you know, I often think to myself, in in my work, both working with the camps and with Israel programs, when I'm thinking about priorities for the programs that I work with directly, I often
On a regular basis, fall back on is the decision that I'm making aligned with our reform Jewish values. And I think that the reform movement is really clear about our values of justice and belonging and learning and evolving and Jewish peoplehood and and shared humanity. And I think that all of these components.
Help guide us in what we're doing, especially when things have been challenging. the first summer following October 7th, how we were welcoming Israelis into our camps and if we were sending our young people to Israel that summer and what that how it would be forever changed. and how did we intentionally and thoughtfully prepare for that was something we spent quite quite a bit of time plan being planful about. I think that.
even now, you know, a few years out from that, it's it's not there's not a cookie-cutter methodology. Like every summer we're re-evaluating. we are taking the learnings from the summer. We do a lot of evaluation with our staff and with our campers and with camper fa families, and we are making data data-informed decisions as we move forward about setting our priorities for educational components,
religious
learning, connection to Israel, the mesh pieces are all areas that we're thinking about really intentionally and making decisions as we grow those areas that are based on feedback, open, honest, ongoing communication and feedback with families, with faculty, with other supporters of what's happening in our camps and immersive programs.
Andrea and Melissa (18:35)
So I wanna follow up on that. because I when my kid went to camp, you know, she's a minority here and it's great to feel like you're not part of a minority and there are other Jewish kids.
Melissa Frey (18:46)
Yeah.
Andrea and Melissa (18:46)
But that was pre-October seventh. How have you changed that sense of self and Jewishness in a vastly different landscape than when I was sending my kid?
Melissa Frey (18:59)
Right. That's a s it's such a such an important and big question. I love big questions. And I think this started from a place moving into the summer of twenty twenty-four of how were we going to in the most intentional way welcome Israelis into our communities? Because for decades having Israeli participants and Israeli staff is fundamental to who we are as a reform Zionist.
movement as summer camping movement and that this has always been a priority and thinking about that for summer everything from what would Israel education look like within the camps and we made a decision we weren't writing a curriculum that we were going to help establish guardrails for camps to navigate what felt right and best for their communities and
We also recognize that in terms of our staff population, when we were talking a moment ago about having a t a young adult getting ready to leave for college. we that summer had staff members at our camps who Israelis who were coming out of Miloim out of reserve duty straight to camp alongside
peers their age who were college students on university campuses that had encampments. And how did camp become the safe space to hold conversation where we intentionally talked about the skills around having honest, hard, some sometimes really hard conversations, but being able to hold space for multiple truths.
and really becoming more sophisticated in how we were holding space for those conversations, out of a necessity to do so. And really it's become now a practice that is so integral to not just how we talk about Israel in camps, but how we talk about a lot of other things in camps that there people are coming from different backgrounds with different life experiences, and we have to be a place, and we want to be a place.
that
welcomes open and honest conversation camper to camper, staff to staff, where you know, camper and staff where it's age and stage appropriate. We're thinking about all of those pieces. And I think now you know each camp again has their own like traditions, custom, culture, and each one is intentionally bringing
their Jewish education component to life through kind of the history that their community and camp is built upon and how that continues to evolve as the world continues to evolve. Like things, you know, are more complicated now than they were when when our people our age were campers in in the 80s.
Andrea and Melissa (21:59)
Right.
Melissa Frey (22:00)
It's very different place. And we want to be cognizant of that and not lose
the joy and you know fulfillment and whimsy and magic that comes with being in Jewish summer camp. And we know that we can do all of that. And it's important that we do, that we not gloss over hard things. Like Camp is an exceptionally welcoming and safe space. And we need to be able to talk about hard things. And that's another really important skill for our young people to learn and camp's a safe place to learn it.
Andrea and Melissa (22:35)
And I I mean the world has fundamentally changed since October seventh. And I think both of our daughters have been struggling and modeled by Jewish Camp. Yeah. How to have really hard conversations where people might be questioning them, maybe attacking them for identities that they're not sure how they hold. And I think in on the college campuses it's it's particularly
evident now. So I think they're armed having coming out of the summer camp experience with a way to identify. And so you were mentioning the Israeli counselors that come to camp.
Melissa Frey (23:15)
Yeah.
Andrea and Melissa (23:16)
And tell us a little bit more about them and the the relationship building because I think that's so important. why do they choose to spend a summer at the URJ camps and what do they contribute beyond like Israeli dancing and Hebrew, especially today?
Melissa Frey (23:32)
Sure.
Sure. It's a such a great question. So we work very closely with the Jewish Agency for Israel and the and Jaffe is the acronym. Jaffy help coordinates the summer Schlachim program. And our URJ camps have been bringing Schlachim from through the Jewish Agency for decades. And it's a really it I think started as a great way to bring a taste of Israel into camp.
and it's really evolved over the years into something so much more meaningful than that. This summer we have over 330 Israeli young adults in their early 20s who are serving on staff at our camps across North America, plus additional Israelis who are not part of the summer schlichten program, but that tends to be our primary feeder for bringing Israeli staff into the camps.
And they are coming in general counselor roles, they are coming in specialty roles, they're coming as worship leaders, as song leaders, they're coming in a variety of roles. They come on a J1 visa, which is a cultural exchange visa, which means they have to be either enrolled in college or college age. Most of them are if they've done their army service, they're then have started college. And
that they are coming to share about their experience and learn about the communities and the culture that they're in while they are visiting at our camps in North America. So their roles have really evolved and every one of our camps has Israeli staff on camp. And while I think for many years there was a deep focus on how important it was to have Israeli Shachim as counselors at camp, that having that
Having an Israeli counselor, having a an Israeli who served as like as a mentor to younger people in camp that was part of helping to teach and educate about their about Israel and their Israeli experience, Israeli culture, Israeli music, the arts, all of these beautiful things that about Israel, that what we now know to be true is that while that mentor mentee relationship is incredibly important.
The most important relationship is the peer-to-peer relationship, which is why it's so important that we have Schlachim on camps and we are intentionally during staff training and then throughout the summer weaving in how they're building relationships with North American peers. And we're doing the same thing with Israeli campers in our camps. We have a program with the Israel Movement for Reform and Progressive Judaism, the IMPJ.
where we bring Israeli ninth and tenth graders to our camps in North America. we also have independent Israeli campers who come this summer across all 14 camps. We have 272 Israelis, Israeli teenagers in our camps as participants in the summer. And I think it cannot be understated how important it is
First
of all, these Israeli teens are so thrilled and so excited to come to North America to spend a month in summer camp to learn about the culture and these communities. For our North American teens who otherwise may have not met someone who who's from Israel before, they maybe have never been to Israel, they perhaps
Only are influenced by the what they see in social media, by a rise in anti-Semitism or anti-Zionism that they're experiencing in their schools. nothing changes that, like the opportunity to make a friend who's an Israeli peer, and the connections that are formed between these Israeli teens and North American teens.
because all of a sudden when you have a friend in Israel and you hear something on the news, you think about it differently because there's a real authentic human connection. we call it mifgash or encounters. and this concept of mifgash is central to everything that we do across the URJ's Israel experiences in every program that we offer.
The concept of mifgash of bringing Israeli and North American peers together, whether they're 14 years old or 24 years old or anywhere in between pretty much that age bracket, the opportunity to bring these young people together to be an authentic relationship building, to learn from each other, to hear each other's lived experiences and their lived truth is so important and so central. And I believe it's
It is part of our obligation to help establish this pathway that I believe this is the insurance policy to the future of Jewish peoplehood is creating these connections between North American and Israeli peers.
Andrea and Melissa (28:55)
my gosh. A hundred percent. Yeah.
Has recruiting Israeli counselors become more difficult since October seventh?
Melissa Frey (29:07)
I will say that the only inhibitor to growing the number of Israeli counselors that we've had in camps has been a result of you know the volatility in the Middle East, and so many of these young people continue to get called up for Army reserve duty. That the cancellations that we've had, which thank goodness have not been many, but there have for the past couple of summers.
have been because of their Miloim service, not because of a lack of interest in coming and participating as an Shakim as an emissary, as like an emissary on behalf of Israel to bring Israeli people Is Israeli peoplehood, Israeli cultural experiences, their what they Hebrew, especially as a shared language, into the camp spaces, that that has been the largest inhibitor, not a lack of interest in.
Israeli
young people coming into these roles.
Andrea and Melissa (30:04)
And what do you think the Israeli counselors that do come here learn about American Judaism?
Melissa Frey (30:11)
I think they are fascinated. I think that they are per a little perplexed in the beginning. I think the Jewish agency does a really intentional job of placing schlichim at camps where they're going to be most comfortable. So most of the shlachim that will come to our camps are probably secular in Israel. Some of them may be connected to IMPJ or reform or progressive congregations in Israel.
But the majority of them probably identify as secular. So the idea of tefila on a daily basis or multiple times a week come is s is new. there are even parts of the worship experience that feel very different or out of place to what they may have experienced here in Israel. And so part of what we do in the camps is also intentionally.
Onboard them like into camp culture, and what we have seen over the years is we have Israelis who bring this passion and love for Israel into our camp spaces and bring all of that so enthusiastically and which with such love and commitment. and they develop these deep connections with the camps, the percentage of returning Slachim.
year over year to camps continues to grow every year because of their deep connection to the these communities, their summer communities. And I think that all of those pieces really help them bring you know their best selves into this space and take back with them a deeply invested and keen interest in
reform
Judaism and reform Zionism in a different way than maybe they experienced before they came to our camps. I think that we see that because we know that and again I want to bring back the music component, like it's the music becomes this common language that all of a sudden we all speak in harmony together. And then they return to Israel and they are seeking that at home and they are finding it in
Reform and Progressive IMPJ congregations here in Israel, where our Shlachim are bringing part of North American Jewish culture back into progressive and reform communities here in Israel, which is remarkable.
Andrea and Melissa (32:46)
So thank thank you. I have another question about bringing Israelis in. I was told from some people who are on staff that the older kids, the teenagers or the ones that were Avodahnics, were really pushing against Zionism, were declaring themselves anti-Zionist and were demonizing Israelis.
Which leaves someone of a different generation, sometimes dumbfounded in how to respond.
Melissa Frey (33:17)
Right.
Andrea and Melissa (33:17)
Are are the counselors, the Israelis, having an easier time in this communication, or are they also feeling a little attacked?
Melissa Frey (33:29)
you know, that's a really great question. I'm not sure I have a to a total sightline to how that's actually playing out camp by camp on the ground. I do think that as a general statement in terms of what we're doing to prepare our camp communities to hold space for people who again have different perspectives that and that camp is a safe place to explore that, that we also
recognize that there is this human element to it that's very different. I think that it's very t I w so I work with teenagers primarily and it's very teen appropriate to if this is your perspective, like that is the way that it is. And that again that going back to this component of creating a space for North American peers to build relationships with Israeli peers.
is really the space where all of a sudden they open up and are interested and invite hearing things a little bit differently than maybe they are. I think my experience with teens that we bring to Israel has been the people who have a very strong opinion about Israel can only be one thing, are enlightened when they once they meet Israeli peers. We also, on our trips to Israel,
Have Israeli teens that participate in the trips with the North American teens. Many of them are the Israelis who came as campers the summer before, because we're really trying to build the touch points of where these young people continue to build their relationships year over year. Because we know that we can, as they grow, become older, wiser, that we can be more sophisticated in how we foster conversations that they're having.
it's different when they're ninth graders than when they're eleventh graders. So I think that all of those pieces tie into creating space at camp and in Israel where we wanna hold space where people can bring their different perspectives and also be respectful and be open minded to hearing other people's truths. And I think that that's a
a part of that building resilience, grit, determination, being, you know, the critical thinking all goes into the this the magic of camp.
Andrea and Melissa (35:59)
And I would think that having a peer there is gonna be a lot easier to have the conversation than with someone
Melissa Frey (36:04)
Yes.
Andrea and Melissa (36:05)
who's a different generation for sure.
Melissa Frey (36:07)
For sure, and even though it's not that, you know, the staff aren't so many years apart from the camp that from teenage campers, it is very different. That's the, you know, the mentor-mentee relationship of a counselor camper. there are definitely, you know, there are things that a a 23-year-old Israeli counselor cannot talk with about with a 10-year-old you know, camper in Indiana, because it's just not appropriate.
However, we know that the peer-to-peer interaction and why we have placed so much emphasis on the value of this of the meefgosh of the encounter experience is because those are agent stage appropriate conversations that we can that are happening in and around peer groups. And again, they become more sophisticated over time as they as they grow, become, you know, older, wiser, have more life experiences. And
I think that all of those pieces tie into helping us create really well rounded and balanced young adults and human beings.
Andrea and Melissa (37:14)
Completely agree. I sent my daughter on her teen tour in 2024.
Melissa Frey (37:20)
Yeah.
Andrea and Melissa (37:22)
it was the she was on the only teen tour that the URJ sent, and usually, from what I understand, each summer camp would send a bus. so there were, I think, two kids from Ohio on her tour. And it was life-changing. And I did it against the objections of pretty much everybody I knew.
And it was the right choice. Can you tell me about how the teen tours have changed in respect to October 7th and how kids are are benefiting from it or struggling
with
Melissa Frey (37:52)
Yeah.
Andrea and Melissa (37:53)
it?
Melissa Frey (37:54)
Sure. I think it's a great question. I think it goes back even farther. I think, you know, our opportunity to run Israel programs has evolved since the since 2020 when we had no camp and no Israel because of COVID. And then coming out of that. And then in 2023 of course, the that fall of October seventh.
there I think that what we've come to learn about the Israel space is like there is there's no new normal. There is what is the summer in front of us and how are we going to be planful for that summer. And we are just so feel so blessed and really overwhelmed with gratitude that we have over
230 North American campers and 40 Israelis who've joined them here in Israel this summer, participating on one of five different programs that we run. And that it was not an easy spring. And I'm sure very much like your experience, I know that there were a lot of people who stuck with us against you know, what.
their orbits were saying about was it safe to go to Israel this summer. And I know that ultimately every family had to make a decision that was best for them. And I know that what we did this summer was right. That I see it on the faces of our teens every day for the past five weeks and know that this was the right decision and that we are
being again guided by our Reform Jewish values, that we take safety and security very seriously, that it's something that we look at on a daily basis. And it's just been a gift. Like this has been an incredible gift for these young people who've had this experience this summer. And I hope that this is the beginning of a of a r of rebound and resurgence of young people wanting to come and explore Israel on their own terms. And and
really develop that relationship with the land and people of Israel.
Andrea and Melissa (40:09)
One of the things that I was struck by when my daughter went on her trip was the radical honesty I saw in her tour that I didn't get when I went on my
Melissa Frey (40:19)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea and Melissa (40:19)
tour. On my tour, it was just really fun food, things to do in the you know, in in the water, things to do on the mountains, climbing masada and getting sick in the heat. But she went and she saw different communities on the borders. She talked to Arab communities.
Melissa Frey (40:34)
Yes.
Andrea and Melissa (40:35)
She learned a lot about the inequities and she came back with a much more sophisticated perspective than I'd ever had. How do you balance that with safety and with what the kids are able to handle? This this seems like a big deal.
Melissa Frey (40:48)
It is. It is. And I mean how the health and safety of our teens is always at the forefront of every decision that we make. And it is very important. bringing teens to Israel in 2026 is very different than it was bringing teens to Israel in 1985 or 1997 where we would bring teen groups of teens and they were blank slates and it was like we're gonna show you the
like all these amazing, wonderful, beautiful things about Israel. We know that teenagers today have much more complex and complicated perspectives on Israel. And the reality is is they're emerging adults and we have an obligation to show them and be honest with them because they know if we're not being and what we don't want to do is be disingenuous, especially with teens, because we know that
their connections, their experiences are going to have a ripple effect in their communities. So we make it a point on all of our trips. We are doing, we are meeting with multiple communities within Israel. We're in the Druze community, in the Bedouin community. We're meeting with Israelis of all different religions, obviously Jewish Israelis, but Christian and Muslim Israelis as well.
They are doing volunteer work side by side with Israelis of other backgrounds and other faiths, and being in authentic dialogue and conversation with them at community centers in different parts of the country. It's really important that we share with them an authentic narrative of what is happening in Israel. because teens are too smart. They're going to know if we are just showing them falafel and
you know and surfing lessons like that's not going to cut it with today's teenagers. They want a substantive experience and they want in many ways to be able to either say like double down on yes, this is what I believe and I understand is true, or to have that light bulb moment of this is something, wow, that is really different than what I expected. And to then have the staff in place to help.
foster and create space for those conversations to flourish while they're here. That there's always ample time and opportunity built in to really kind of unpack the experiences along the way. And of course they also are, you know, enjoying the falafel on Ben Yehuda Street and doing surfing in Tel Aviv and going to the Baha'i Gardens in Haifa. And I was just literally yesterday morning hiked Masada.
with the group after they came from snorkeling in the Red Sea in Eilat for two days prior. So they are doing plenty of like those things too. And we realize that today's teenagers are just much, much more sophisticated and we want to give them a program that challenges them in every way, whether it's with new experiences, new opportunities and certainly new conversations with people who are different than themselves.
Andrea and Melissa (44:03)
I think that when my daughter came back, she had the tools necessary to represent who she is as a Jewish teen and to be prepared for those conversations. And she and I don't always, you know, agree on Israel, but she has the words and she has the knowledge to be able to have a really good conversation. And that's you guys did a good job. Thank you.
And I know my daughter went
Melissa Frey (44:30)
Thank you.
Andrea and Melissa (44:31)
in 2022. So she went the year before
Melissa Frey (44:33)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea and Melissa (44:34)
everything happened. And but she
Melissa Frey (44:36)
Right.
Andrea and Melissa (44:36)
did some of her greatest memories were those experiences interacting with other cultures. She talked about the night that she was, I think they visited the the the Druze population. And she said
Melissa Frey (44:48)
Perfect.
Andrea and Melissa (44:48)
they sat out under the stars and they were talking. And then she was also talking to Palestinian and an Israeli about their hope.
Together to find peace. And it was something, and this was before all of October 7th even happened.
Melissa Frey (45:06)
Yes.
Andrea and Melissa (45:06)
So those were the memories that she brought back with her. So you're really doing amazing work at an age when they're very impressionable and it's it's important for them to be able to see this view. So I think that's fantastic.
what are the biggest challenges right now, do you believe, facing Jewish camps today?
Melissa Frey (45:28)
that's a great question. I mean, I think that one of the things that i I think is kind of universally felt this is not simply a within our URJ camping system, I think there is a real affordability challenge with summer camp. I think when we think about at least in within the reform movement, the 10,000 plus
young people that we're serving every summer in our programs, like what an incredible number that is. And there are more, so many more that we're not serving, and that the financial affordability component is real, whether that's for summer camp or for Israel travel programs. And I think that that is something across the Jewish nonprofit camping system is real.
and something that people are thinking a lot about and doing a lot of really important
searching, having conver important conversations, working with some incredible philanthropists and funders to help us really think about this long term because we know like the incredible benefits of these young people having a camp experience. And once you go, it's really hard to not want to go back. And so this becomes a year over year commitment that that's a very that's very expensive.
And so we are always looking and in conversation and thinking about ways that we can make camp as accessible for anyone who wants to be a camp as possible.
Andrea and Melissa (47:15)
Why choose Jewish camp over secular camp? Because there's so many there's so many like niche camps now. There's theater camp, there's stem camp, there's all these like different camps that appeared. Fancy camps with better pools. Right, right. And the facilities are maybe a little more updated and indoor plumbing in the in the plumbing in the cabin. So what
Melissa Frey (47:36)
Right.
Andrea and Melissa (47:37)
is it
That that appeals about Jewish camp. Why choose a Jewish camp experience over the secular camps that are available to kids today?
Melissa Frey (47:47)
I think that it's so important for our young people to have an experience in their lives where for once, for a slice of whether it's a 14-day session at a specialty camp or a three or four-week session at one of our regional camps, for them to not feel like a minority. I think that when we bring our teens to Israel and we ask them
Three weeks into a trip, what feels different about being here? And they say it's just so easy being Jewish here because it feels like everybody's Jewish. It's just so easy at camp to authentically be Jewish because the majority of people at camp are Jewish. And we have a lot of really talented and wonderful staff at camp who are not Jewish, who also bring their own important.
lived experiences into the camp environment and it creates an you know a staffing structure that looks actually really similar to most young people's homes and communities where there are you know a really blended communities of people from really diverse backgrounds. and it's simply safe to be Jewish and authentic and proud about it. And I think that sadly that's something that is really
we're finding increasingly hard to replicate in other parts of their lives, even the Jewish spaces,
I think that it's just so important that we continue to offer these spaces where they can joyfully experience their Judaism.
And not feel like they're othered.
Andrea and Melissa (49:29)
I I I couldn't agree more on that front. And I want to speak now from my own personal perspective because when I sent my daughter to camp, since I hadn't had the experience as a camper, I was nervous. As Andrea said, I am also a
Melissa Frey (49:44)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea and Melissa (49:44)
smotherer. My daughters will tell you that straight out. I remember when my daughter was at camp and they would upload the photos every day, and I could identify her elbow from a picture because I was looking
Melissa Frey (49:54)
But
Andrea and Melissa (49:55)
to see.
Melissa Frey (49:56)
yes.
Andrea and Melissa (49:56)
Is that her?
Is that where is she in these pictures? What advice do you have for nervous parents about sending their kids, especially when they're young and this is their first time entering this environment? And also, what's a good age or the right age to start going to Jewish sleepaway camp?
Melissa Frey (50:15)
you know, I I think that you're never too young. honestly, that the su there's soon as there's a taste of camp program or a family camp opportunity, that families should go or families should send their kiddos for the Shabbat experience at camp in the weekend. That's like a taste of I think, from my own personal experience, I did grow up going to Jewish camp. I grew up in Texas and went to our camp in Texas. And
my my parents sent my brother and I to camp when we were 10 and eight years old. I could not wait to go. My brother locked himself in the car and would not get out of the car. and my parents literally were like, you gotta go. and I think that it was the best thing they ever did for us. I think we had very, you know, went with different levels of hesitation and reluctance and it was the best gift that our parents gave.
us that we both still think about the life trajectories that we've been on and can tie that back in really concrete ways to our experience as eight and 10 year olds and then 13 and 15 year olds and 17 and 19 year olds and growing up through camp and on staff and how that affected us as adults and even how we live our lives today that camp has this through line that
really set you on a course of of independence, of intentionality, of thoughtfulness. And I think we know from the data that young people who really thrive thrive because they have other adults in their lives that build the village around their the family, their parents or guardians or you know people who are closest to them.
provide for them and that they they actually thrive from having other adults that are meaningfully in their lives and that that is something that Camp can provide again in this immersive incubated environment that's so intentional and so thoughtful where these authentic relationships just really come to life in a very different kind of way than than they can in other other times during the year because of their immersive nature.
Andrea and Melissa (52:41)
So when I would send my daughter to camp, I would have people tell me, not quite so bluntly, that I was a bad mom for sending my kid away for a month and, you know, I must not love her. And my response was, I love her enough to let her go away and grow for a month. But you were talking about that village or the web of family. I also knew
Melissa Frey (53:01)
Uh-huh.
Andrea and Melissa (53:02)
if I was wondering about her, I had friends who were either on staff or had kids who were on staffed that I could just text them and like,
Just send me a pic on my kid. I just want one picture to make sure she's fine and I would get it. And our rabbis. The rabbis from our synagogues were there than were
Melissa Frey (53:18)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea and Melissa (53:18)
like a touch point if we had any questions or anything. So that was And now with the AI enabled face recognition, which is a little scary.
Melissa Frey (53:26)
yes.
Andrea and Melissa (53:27)
Yeah. It's like where's Walda with my kid? And she's tiny in the corner
Melissa Frey (53:30)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea and Melissa (53:30)
and I can just see her ponytail. Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. So I wanna for our conclusion, I wanna find out what does the research tell us?
How does camp increase Jewish engag engagement, leadership, marriage, synagogue membership, identification?
Melissa Frey (53:49)
Yeah.
I mean, I think the Foundation for Jewish Camp really has done a remarkable job in this area. They work with over a hundred and fifty nonprofit Jewish camps across North America and have done a they invest so much so intentionally in data collection and research, which has really impacted the entire nonprofit Jewish camping field. Like the work that they've done cannot it be over overstated. Like they
They lead in this space. There are pieces of what they do that we emulate in our spaces as well to help us gather additional data that's specifically based on our reformed Jewish camp or Israel travel experiences. and, you know, what the data shows is that young people who have immersive Jewish experiences at younger ages feel more deeply connected to their
pride in being Jewish. They feel they are better prepared when they enter the college space. I cannot speak to marriage percentages or connection to synagogue membership. I I don't have that sideline. however what I can say is we see it year over year as so many of our camps that have now been
around many of them for upwards of 70 plus years, the number of alumni who come back and feel so connected and engaged. And when they know it's their Avodah 10-year reunion, or if it, you know, the I call it the speed limit anniversaries, if it ends with a five or a zero, it's like your
Andrea and Melissa (55:33)
Yeah.
Melissa Frey (55:33)
anniversary year of since you were in Avodah or CIT or Mahon or whatever the program was, and how they come back.
And they just want to be together. And how as young adults, I see, you know, former campers of mine from almost 20 years ago who are now married and have children and are dropping their kids for opening day at camp, and I see the pictures online, and that it's not lost on me that camp has just served as this foundation for incredible relationship building.
and connection to meaningful and intentional Jewish life. And we just see that over and over again. in the experiences that like my peers and I had when we were campers, when we were on staff, how I'm now watching them send their children and nieces and nephews to camps to experience this magic and this joy. I think that all of this is
is really fundamental again to helping us ensure a meaningful and vibrant connection to Jewish peoplehood and Jewish continuity. And Camp is just a linchpin to help ensure that happens.
Andrea and Melissa (56:55)
So we'll we're gonna ask you like a final question, Melissa.
Melissa Frey (56:59)
Sure.
Andrea and Melissa (57:00)
If there were one thing that you hope every camper carries with them for the rest of their lives, what would it be?
Melissa Frey (57:09)
I hope that their camp experience reiterates for them and really helps them fundamentally understand.
That they are truly loved, valued, and appreciated for exactly who they are. and that that fundamentally comes from our connection as Reform Jews, our values, how we treat people, how we connect with other people, and that they really
know their worth and their value, that they feel it themselves and that they treat other people with that same sense of love, kindness, empathy, and respect. I think those aren't those are more universal ideas, but certainly deeply connected to our reform Jewish values. And I think that
our camp and immersive Israel programs really help make better human beings. that these are experiences that stay with them for a lifetime. That and how blessed are we to be the adults now who get to watch the next generation and the next generation and the next generation have these experiences. And
like what a blessing that is. It's pretty remarkable.
Andrea and Melissa (58:42)
Beautiful.
It really is. Really is. Happy sighing.
Melissa Frey (58:47)
What
Andrea and Melissa (58:49)
It is wonderful that you're in this role with
Melissa Frey (58:54)
Thank you.
Andrea and Melissa (58:54)
the URJ camps. that you can articulate your goals and we agree with them 100%. Camp has been magical for me as a as when I was growing up and for me as a parent and you too. Yeah. I
Thank you so much for being on the podcast with us. It has been wonderful to get in there. True pleasure.
Melissa Frey (59:16)
I'm so so grateful
for the opportunity. So grateful. And it's been a just such a pleasure meeting both of you. And I look forward to just hopefully seeing you in person when I'm back in the Midwest.
Andrea and Melissa (59:30)
That would be great. We'd be happy to have, you know, a something to drink and a Kibbitz Yeah, absolutely.
Melissa Frey (59:35)
There you go. I love it.
Andrea and Melissa (59:38)
So, Mishpocha, we have had a wonderful afternoon talking with Melissa Frey about summer camps. And we hope that you Kibbitz on. Kibbitz on, everyone.