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Nielsen's The Round Out tells the developing story of the most significant expansion of sports fandom in a generation and what it means for the brands trying to win over a new wave of fans. Hosted by insights experts Brian Fuhrer and Julie DeTraglia, the podcast pairs decades of media measurement expertise with the cultural fluency to make the numbers mean something. Brian and Julie don't just read the data they round it out, putting every figure in the context of the fans, stories, and shifts reshaping American sports. As FIFA's official media intelligence supplier, Nielsen brings unparalleled insight to the 2026 World Cup and beyond, covering the sports, stories, and communities driving fandom's next chapter. Tune in to hear who the new fans are, what they care about, and how brands can earn their loyalty.
Brian Fuhrer: Back in 2024, Argentina
won the Copa América in the 112th
minute at the Hard Rock Stadium
in Miami, and this was in the
run-up to their World Cup victory.
What was most amazing about that
whole event was fans crawling their
way through air conditioning vents
because they didn't have tickets.
SOT: What is going on here?
People are getting into the Copa
América through the ventilation system.
What is going on here?
It
Julie DeTraglia: was really incredible.
I remember watching it, and I also
remember seeing it just explode on
social media, this video of people
trying to, like, Mission Impossible
their way into that stadium.
And one reason is that many thought this
was gonna be Lionel Messi's final match.
But it really went crazy online, and that
really spread the fandom in places where
people might not otherwise have seen it.
Brian Fuhrer: And, you know, it's not
unexpected that in a hotbed of soccer like
Miami that you had that much enthusiasm.
But what was surprising was all
the markets across the US, like San
Francisco, where casual observers
were turned into hardcore fans.
That Copa América final wasn't
just a flash in the pan.
It showed up in the numbers, too.
When we look at the Fox combined with
the Univision numbers, it achieved
over 13 million combined viewers.
So Julie, what do you
think is driving all this?
Julie DeTraglia: Well, it's mostly
a youth and Hispanic movement.
A full three-quarters of US soccer
fans are Millennials or Gen Z.
When you look at the Hispanic audience
specifically, they are 87% more likely
to have watched a qualifying match for
the World Cup in the last 12 months.
So this is an audience that was
engaged well before the tournament
ever came to American soil.
Brian Fuhrer: The American sports
landscape is shifting beneath our feet.
Fandom has evolved.
Streaming platforms have secured
rights to high-profile events.
Leagues and partners
have expanded schedules.
The 2026 FIFA World Cup Tournament will
begin, co-hosted across three countries,
and on American soil for the first time
in 32 years, and expanded to 104 games.
Julie DeTraglia: It is expected to
attract over five billion global
viewers across all platforms.
Right now, in the US, there
are 65 million soccer fans.
And with this home soil
advantage, the World Cup is
expected to be a record-breaker.
Brian Fuhrer: I'm Brian Fuhrer,
SVP of Product Strategy and Thought
Leadership at Nielsen, where I help
clients understand consumer media
behavior and how it's evolving.
Julie DeTraglia: And I'm Julie
Detraglia, Nielsen's Head of
Content and Strategic Insights.
I'm brand new to Nielsen, but I've
been a client for nearly 30 years,
having worked at broadcasters and
streamers, all with sports rights.
My role here is to take data
and insights and help clients
turn that into business impact.
Brian Fuhrer: Welcome, Julie.
We're lucky to have you, and welcome
everyone to Nielsen's The Round Up, sports
from a media and audience perspective.
Julie DeTraglia: And we're calling it
The Round Up because that's exactly what
we're here to do, take the data and the
numbers that Nielsen sees every day, and
round out the picture with the cultural
context to help it all make sense.
Brian Fuhrer: I just wanted to welcome
to The Round Out, along with my co-host
Julie DiTraglia, a good friend and one
of the most knowledgeable, if not the
most knowledgeable person about sports
in the, in the industry, Mike Movshill.
Thanks for joining.
Mike Mulvihill: Yeah,
thanks for having me.
I'm really excited to be here.
I'm honored that you would think of me to
be the first subject, uh, on this new pod.
Brian Fuhrer: Why don't you tell us
a little bit about yourself, your
background, and what your role is?
You can do it much better than I could.
Mike Mulvihill: So I run a group at
Fox called Insights and Analytics,
which stretches across, um- Sports
and entertainment and ad sales.
And then there are obviously other parts
of the company, um, where research doesn't
directly roll up to me, but we have a good
informal working relationship with Fox
News and, uh, at Tubi, and with some of
our other, uh, businesses that touch the
Nielsen relationship or that have a need
for, uh, understanding consumer behavior.
Um, I got into research,
uh, in the mid-'90s, right?
So I'm dating myself a little bit here.
And it was really quite by accident.
Um, when I was in school and getting
into the job market, you know, I
really thought that what I wanted to
do was something on the creative side.
Like, I thought I wanted to
be in, uh, series development.
I had been an intern for Fox in current
programming, um, in, in what was really a,
a period of peak, um, creativity for Fox.
You know, this was when Fox was The
Simpsons and The X-Files was coming
on, and Melrose Place and 90210.
Um, and a, a time when things were
really happening, uh, at our company.
And so that's what I thought I wanted to
do was, was get into series development.
Um, graduated into a tough job market,
got an opportunity to work in research,
thought I would do it for a year or two
and then transition into something else.
Um, and what happened instead
was very much unexpected.
You know, I found that I
liked working with the data
more than I ever expected to.
I got a little bit hooked on it, um,
and I also realized that I wanted
to make a transition into sports.
Like, I started working for Fox,
um, just after our first NFL season.
We were about to have our first
Major League Baseball season.
You know, a story that I tell all
the time is that the most famous book
that's ever been written about sports
television isn't about Fox, it's about
ESPN, but it's called Those Guys Have
All the Fun, uh, by James Andrew Miller.
And when I was a young person getting
started in the business, thinking
that what I wanted to do was scripted
series development, I was looking at
the guys who worked for Fox Sports,
and I really did think like, "Oh,
these guys have all the fun." Like,
they had such a great camaraderie.
They were traveling all over the
country to these great events.
Um, they really seemed to enjoy
what they did and enjoy each other.
Uh, and I just sort of gravitated to that.
And to be frank, like, it was much
easier to make the transition into
sports at that time than it is today.
You know, now you have probably over
100 schools that have sports media or
sports marketing programs of some kind.
We didn't have any of that then, and all
it really took was A passion for sports,
a willingness to work hard and, you know,
start out at pretty low compensation.
If you could write a little
bit, if you could do a little
bit of math, like that helped.
Um, and I was able to get my foot in
the door at a young age and work with
some really, really great people,
including some legendary people in this
business, like David Hill and Ed Goren.
Um, and I just never left.
Like, I really enjoyed, as I say,
working with the numbers, working with
consumer research, um, that idea of
moving into more of a storytelling role.
Like over time, that kind of got
replaced with, um, finding ways to
use data as a type of storytelling
and just try to come up with creative
solutions to problems that we face, and
that's what I still do today, right?
Like the job is still just about trying
to use every source of data that we
can to come up with creative content
strategies that hopefully bring a
bigger audience, um, to our content and
just make us a more effective company.
Brian Fuhrer: So one of the things
that you mentioned that I, I think is
really interesting here is we have a
lot of experts about specific sports,
and each sport, you know, in a lot
of ways has its own, its own specific
definition of success and, and its
own recipe, and yet y- you really span
not just the entertainment side, but,
you know, so many different sports.
How did you become such a renaissance
guy when it comes to sports and
especially leading into the World Cup
and all the, the components of that?
Mike Mulvihill: Uh, look, I
think that's way too generous.
And the way that I would describe myself,
you know, I think more accurately, is
that I'm not an expert in any sports.
Um, what I do think I'm an expert in, or I
try to be an expert in, is sports fandom.
And understanding sports is
something pretty different from
understanding sports fandom.
There are a lot of people in this
business, there are a lot of people
in our company that understand the
game of football better than I do.
They understand baseball better than I do.
We have guys in our company who are Hall
of Famers and competed at the highest
level, and I, I'll never be able to
match their understanding of the game.
But I think I can match just about
anybody's understanding of how
consumers engage with sports, why
they engage, what kind of emotional
needs are met by sports fandom.
You know, that's an area that we try to
understand that's a little bit outside
the scope of the Nielsen ratings,
but we think it's really important to
understand, um, the emotional benefits
that underlie the numbers themselves.
You know, we, we sometimes say that
the Nielsen ratings are our attempt to
quantify things that can't be quantified,
which are the, the human emotions and
the connections that come with sports.
So you know what my team and I try
to do on the sports side is not
pretend to be experts in sports.
We don't try to predict outcomes.
We always say if we could predict
game outcomes, none of us would
be doing this for a living.
We would make a lot more money
gambling on events, right?
So we're not experts in sports, but we
are experts in sports fandom, and I think
we've come to a, a pretty comprehensive
narrative around why so many hundreds of
millions of people invest their time and
their emotional energy in this, what they
get out of it, what that means to us as a
business, and how we can then, um, deliver
that emotional passion and intensity
to our business partners, whether
those are advertisers, distributors,
investors, or, or anybody else.
So it, it's really the difference
between being, um, literate and trying
to be an expert in the act of fandom
and not really being an expert in
sports, because I, I can never be an
expert in sports in the way that our,
our broadcasters and our producers are.
Julie DeTraglia: Really interesting,
Mike, to hear about how you
sort of fell into research and
measurement, because I did the same.
There was no sports marketing or any
kind of real marketing degrees, you
know, back when I was in college.
One of the things that Fox has done, um,
and you've done really, I think, you know,
you've sort of been revolutionary at this,
is changing schedules and evolving the way
that sports are presented to those fans.
You and Fox were pretty early along in
kind of changing the ways, the windowing,
you know, adding, you know, have college
football on Fridays and Saturday mornings.
And I think some of that is
informing the way that you're
thinking about the World Cup.
Are you looking at data to
find those white spaces?
Are you relying on, you know, some of
the research you do around fandom to
understanding sports fans and kind of
figuring out where those gaps are and
where Fox can better serve those fans?
Mike Mulvihill: So, uh, there's
a little bit of a nuanced
answer to that question, right?
Because in our company, we
have a research department,
obviously, that rolls up to me.
We also have a completely
separate, um, programming and
scheduling department within sports
that rolls up to Billy Wanger.
And, you know, there are some properties
where I'm a little bit more directly
involved in the scheduling, uh,
and there are others where I'm not.
You know, the whole World Cup schedule
was put together by Billy's group.
Um, that was an effort that
was led by a really talented
woman named Daniella Jeffries.
Um, so there is another group, uh, that
has, you know, so much influence over
the way that we schedule our content.
You know, I, I do take, I guess, my
share of credit for Big Noon, uh,
and for some of the things that we've
done on the NFL side over the years.
And I, I think it's just what we
talked about earlier, that what this
job is really about fundamentally
is just using every source of data
that you have, whether that's Nielsen
data or anything else, um, to try to
come up with just logical strategies
and identify logical opportunities.
Like to me, Big Noon was just
a very logical opportunity.
I didn't really see that as, um, a
risk or any kind of daring innovation.
It was just a logical thing to get away
from what was a very crowded college
football landscape in prime time and
try to put some high-quality content in
a friendlier competitive environment.
When it comes to the World Cup- You
know, I have a very strong belief in
the power of broadcast television.
Um, I think that a lot of the successes
that we're seeing in sports in the last
couple years, whether it's on Fox or
elsewhere, they're the result of, um,
moving more events to broadcast and
simplifying your programming strategy.
So I'll give you one example that's
ours and one example that's not ours.
The example that's ours is that we were
able to take over, uh, IndyCar racing
last year, and that's a series of events
that had previously been on broadcast
and multiple national cable networks,
and a few events were exclusively
on streaming, and we took all 17
races and just put them on broadcast.
So that's taking something that
had been, you know, a little bit
fragmented and maybe difficult
to find and just simplifying it,
making a more elegant solution, and
elevating it to your highest platform.
And the result was that the viewership
for IndyCar was up close to 30% last year.
It's up another close to, I think,
close to 30% so far this year.
Um, so we've had a lot of
success by just simplifying that.
I think another really good example is
that ABC was able to, uh, I shouldn't say
ABC, Disney was able to get the rights
to all of the Southeastern Conference.
The SEC expanded to
include Texas and Oklahoma.
They were able to take football inventory
that had previously lived on CBS and
ESPN, consolidate that, put all their best
games on ABC, stack double headers in a
really logical way, uh, and they've had
great, great success with that, right?
So I think there is a trend in
sports right now where the more
that you're able to simplify your
strategy and focus on the reach of
broadcast, the better off you are.
Um, I still think that the
greatest reach vehicles that
we have are broadcast vehicles.
It's terrestrial radio, uh,
and over-the-air TV, right?
So we're trying to lean
into that as much as we can.
Certainly with the World Cup,
we're leaning into broadcast
very, very heavily, right?
There are 104 matches in
this year's World Cup.
It's an expanded field, more
matches than ever before.
70 of those will be, uh, on free TV,
and I think that's really important
because we're trying to broaden
the appeal of soccer in the US.
We're trying to invite as
many people in as possible.
There are still tens of millions of, of
homes in this country that are not paying
a subscription fee for pay TV every month.
They still rely on the
availability of free broadcast.
Um, and so I think whether it's the
World Cup or IndyCar or anything else,
I'm really an advocate of just looking
for ways to keep as much content
freely accessible, uh, on broadcast
as possible, and really take advantage
of that reach of broadcast TV that's
been powerful for over 100 years.
Julie DeTraglia: Yeah, it's really
interesting, especially given where we
are in the world right now with a lot
of these rights expanding or moving to
streaming services, including Thursday
Night Football moving from Fox to Amazon.
It creates a lot of consumer
confusion, a lot of fragmentation.
You know, numbers are different.
Audiences are different.
There's a lot of different ways to
analyze what that's done, but one thing
we know is that it has made it harder
for the consumer to go figure out where
to find the things they want to see.
But also you can argue it gives them,
in some cases, more access points.
I guess one example, one thing I
want to ask you about is Tubi because
that, you know, they're, you know,
Fox company, free streaming, so I
guess it's the same philosophy that
you're actually just providing access,
additional access for those who might
not have broad- broadcast acc- access.
Is that sort of how you've seen
the Tubi relationship to date?
Mike Mulvihill: Yeah, I, I think when we
can take advantage of Tubi, we want to.
We have sort of been, um- Just
dipping our toe in the water
of what's possible with Tubi.
You know, it's obviously
a very powerful platform.
We wanna take advantage of it when we can.
We made the Super Bowl available
on Tubi a couple years ago.
It was a very significant
contributor to that Super Bowl
setting a record for viewership.
Um, we did it again for our
Thanksgiving game last year.
We're gonna have a very, very
small number of World Cup matches
that are made available via Tubi.
So i- i- they're a powerful partner.
Um, they can be an
accelerant to our audience.
At the same time, we also have
to be really mindful of the
business relationship that
we have with our traditional
over-the-air affiliates, right?
Like, we have to protect,
uh, that business model.
We have to protect the, the primacy of
the over-the-air affiliate relationship.
And so we are a little bit
limited by choice, um, in
how aggressively we use Tubi.
And, and that's something that I think
we'll just figure out over a number
of years, like where are the right
opportunities to use that extra means
of distribution, uh, and where do we
have to maintain broadcast affiliate
exclusivity to just make sure that we're
protecting those relationships too?
Brian Fuhrer: There's a couple things
I wanted to ask and kind of extend the,
the discussion around World Cup, and
it's, it's, it's really fascinating
to see kind of from so many different
perspectives, but the mechanics
of putting this together, can you
give us any kind of early feelings?
You know, we look at the things that
seem obvious to us, but we know that
you and your y- your team has spent a
lot of time analyzing this, obviously
in the decision to even get the rights.
But what is your gut feeling,
you know, of, of what's gonna
happen as, as this unfolds?
Mike Mulvihill: Well, I mean, I think
if we're talking about, uh, measurables,
you know, we'll be looking, uh, we'll
be looking a lot at reach, right?
I think that the possibility is for
this World Cup to achieve reach that
is similar to an NFL regular season.
Um, if you think about a- an NFL
regular season on Fox or CBS, because
we have more windows than the other
partners, we might reach 170 million
people, uh, in a regular season.
Um, a primetime package with fewer
windows is gonna reach a little bit less.
They might reach 130, 140.
I kinda think this World Cup has a
chance to reach 150 million viewers.
So it's almost like having
a second NFL regular season.
Um, in a Fox NFL regular
season, we'll have 101 games.
The World Cup has 104 matches, so it's
a pretty similar number of events, um,
but the format and the construction
of it is obviously very different.
You know, in the NFL, we're
doing regionalized windows
across an 18-week season.
That's how we get to those 101 games.
In the World Cup, every match will have
its own standalone national window,
and it's compressed into five weeks.
So it's, it's all the reach and complexity
of an 18-week NFL season, um, compressed
into just five weeks, so that obviously
comes with a lot of demands on our
talent, uh, and on our production team.
I, I, I think we have an expectation
that the US national team matches
will at least challenge, uh, to be
the most watched soccer matches i- in
American TV history, hopefully will
surpass some of those previous records.
Um, I, I think this is a World Cup that's
going to break a lot of records, right?
So we're going into it
with a lot of optimism.
Um, but I think that the number one
metric that's interesting to me is
reach, because reach is so important
to everybody in our business.
It's important to FIFA.
It's important to, um, the future
growth of soccer in the US.
It's obviously important to our business
partners, and I would love for us to get
to a point where we can say that the World
Cup has reach that is, at least in some
way, comparable to an NFL regular season
package, because that's obviously the
gold standard for reach in this business.
Brian Fuhrer: Yeah, it feels like
a lightning in a bottle moment for
soccer in general, uh, here in the US.
And, you know, I, uh, like you do as
well, I'm sure, travel fairly regularly,
uh, internationally, and, you know,
the, the passion that we see elsewhere,
um, as that translates into not just,
uh, you know, subsets of, of the US but
also more broadly, it, it could be an
extremely interesting moment, um, not
just for soccer, but for sports in the US.
You know, I, I would have loved to
have, uh, been a fly on the wall in
the, your draft sessions deciding
what matches to air where and when.
Mike Mulvihill: Well, actually, I think
you would've found it less interesting
than you might think because we have
such a limited degree of control over
how matches are scheduled, right?
Like, obviously, the World Cup is
being shown in territories around
the world, and even if the US is the
largest and most valuable and most
dynamic television market, um, we
don't have a free hand to just dictate
how games are scheduled, right?
That's why the second US group
stage match, uh, which is against
Australia in Seattle, um, is
in an afternoon window, right?
Like, if we had complete, uh, authority to
create whatever schedule we wanted, maybe
we would play that match in primetime.
But FIFA is in the unique situation
of having to take into account, um,
viewership patterns, uh, all over the
world, um, which means you're thinking
about not just North and South American
time zones, but European time zones
are obviously incredibly important.
Asian time zones are important, and
maybe even increasingly important.
Um, so it's not like some of our other
properties where we really have a lot
of latitude in determining who's gonna
play on what day and at what time.
I, I do think that I, I, I
think this relates to something
that you said earlier.
You know, it, it is really
important to us to try to broaden
the appeal of soccer in the US.
That- that's very much linked to, um,
that strategy of putting 70 matches
on broadcast and using free TV as
aggressively as we can, because soccer,
I would argue, is the sport of the
people in virtually every country on
Earth except the United States, right?
Here in the US, soccer still
has kind of an association with,
um, more affluent families.
Uh, I, I don't know that it's necessarily
seen as the sport of the people.
Um, it has an incredibly affluent
television audience, right?
Like, these are statistics
that we get from Nielsen.
When we look at the median income
of any of our properties, we
generally want it to be higher.
We want to be reaching people that
will be attractive to an advertiser.
In the case of soccer, the median income
of the audience, it's almost too high.
You know, you would actually trade
some of that affluence to broaden the
reach, um, and just make sure that
you're including as many different
types of people and different
types of circumstances as possible.
So by putting all these matches on
broadcast, it would be okay with me
If we sacrificed a little bit of that
extreme affluence in the interest
of reaching 150 million people, it's
okay if, um, the average viewer is a
little less affluent than they've been
in past World Cups, because we really
wanna open up those doors and get as
many people under the tent as we can.
Brian Fuhrer: Well, all signs
indicate you're gonna, uh,
get at least some of your wish
Mike Mulvihill: there.
Obviously, being in North American
time zones is incredibly significant.
Uh, and just the emotional resonance
of being here in the US, having
most of the matches in US markets,
it happens to coincide with our
celebration of the 250th anniversary
of the founding of the country.
And what we're hoping is that
those things will come together,
um, to create something that's
really emotionally powerful.
Right?
I, I think we've been talking a
lot about what does it mean for
America to welcome the world in 2026?
Like, what does it mean for
America to host the world's
most important sporting event?
And I, I truly believe this is the
world's most important sporting event.
And hopefully it's something that's gonna
create, you know, a surge of national
pride and good feeling at a moment where
I think we all could use that surge of
national pride, um, and just really make
people feel great about having the world
come here in a, not to be too, like,
misty-eyed about it, but, you know, a
celebration of sports, a celebration
of, like, what's possible in sports.
Um, and hopefully that will inspire
people, and then all those strong emotions
will be reflected in the numbers that
we look at through the tournament.
Julie DeTraglia: Yeah, it's, that's…
You bring up a lot of really great points.
I mean, we've talked about the kind
of home field advantage of having
the time zone, US time zones, is
really gonna make a huge difference.
But I hadn't really thought about,
you know, the 250th anniversary, and
it's always, you know, knowing it's
gonna be a huge cultural moment.
But all those things coming
together at the same time is really,
really unique and significant.
A- and obviously, as you mentioned, you've
got a lot of just regular tracking to do,
you know, reach and audiences for those
104 games in a very short amount of time.
What are some of the other signals
and data that you'll be looking at,
you and the team, as you work your way
through what's sure to be a probably
grueling five weeks of, of work?
Mike Mulvihill: Yeah, this
is a great question, right?
Because this is a chance for us as
research nerds to just completely geek out
on the data and, and what it means, right?
Um, because some of the metrics that
matter to me are not necessarily
metrics that, uh, a lot of people
who don't do this for a living
would look at first, right?
One is co-viewing.
Um, I, I just think co-viewing is
so important to sports generally.
It's gonna be important to this World Cup.
Obviously, the tournament
falls during summer vacation.
Kids are gonna be home and available
to watch matches with their
parents or with their friends.
Um, and we think that so much
of the value of sports is in its
ability to bring people together.
I know I've mentioned that a few times
already, but we just can't say enough
that, you know, what underpins this whole
business is the social currency of sports,
and the way that that social connectivity
gets expressed in the Nielsen data, um, is
primarily in the co-viewing number, right?
So the more that we can see that kids
are watching with parents and you're
having that intergenerational connection,
that's really important to sports
because sports fandom tends to be passed
down from one generation to the next.
Like, the way to really grow,
grow the game is to have parents
watching with their kids and, and
having a shared experience there.
So co-viewing is gonna be a
metric that we look at a lot.
Um, and out-of-home contribution is gonna
be something that we look at a lot, right?
Like, if we were hosting this World Cup
in the US Well, we did host the World
Cup in the US 32 years ago, but you
don't even have to go back that far.
You know, if you, if we were doing
this just eight or 12 years ago, um,
it would've made us a little bit uneasy
to have these watch parties in public
places where thousands or tens of
thousands of people are coming together
to watch the matches in environments
that not that long ago would not
have been captured by Nielsen, right?
Now it is being captured by Nielsen.
We do monetize that public viewing,
um, and we very much wanna encourage
as much public viewing as possible.
You know, i- if we can get 20,000 people
to come out to watch a match in Grant
Park in Chicago, if we can get a couple
thousand to come to Power & Light in
Kansas City, like that's fantastic for us.
Uh, and so I think for many years we
had this sort of awkward circumstance in
sports where we knew that public viewing,
whether it was in bars and restaurants,
uh, or in outdoor public settings, we
knew that was important for sports, but
we also knew that we weren't capturing
it or monetizing it, um, so we almost
had to work at cross purposes, like
we, we didn't really want to encourage
those big public viewing parties.
Now, it's an important part of what we do.
Um, I think there are gonna be World Cup
matches where out of home might account
for 30% or 40% of the total viewing, uh,
and that's very much a positive thing.
Like we wanna see the biggest out of
home contribution that we can get.
Brian Fuhrer: You know, as w- as
we've looked back in 2023, you know,
e- every month we, we try and, and,
and track what the, what the overall
consumption patterns are, and we
definitely saw an impact on the gauge,
for example, in, during that interval.
And, and, you know, we'll really be
looking forward to s- to, to trending
that and seeing the overall impact.
But one thing I think you, uh, you
know, you really point out here
is How sports is such a connector.
You know, we've seen it historically.
South Africa, for example, with Mandela
and, and what- what's happened there.
It, it, it really is, I, I think, a cult-
the World Cup is, is a cultural moment in-
including the kind of historical times in
the US with the, the 250th anniversary.
It's, it's gonna be a, a really
interesting time to see all
these things come together.
Julie DeTraglia: Mike, I think you hit
on all the sort of really key parts
of what's gonna make this a really
spectacular and unique event, and a
lot of work for you and your team.
So just wanted to wish you good luck,
and thanks again for taking the time.
I know what it's like to, you know,
be on the lead-up to one of these
things, and there's a lot going on.
Mike Mulvihill: No, thanks.
We appreciate that, and we look
forward to doing that work.
And, you know, I just wanna thank
you guys and your company because,
you know, the data that you provide
is the currency of our business.
It's our best opportunity to really
understand sports fans and what's
happening out there in the marketplace.
Uh, and I really do believe, and we've
said it already on this pod, that the
power of sports is that it brings us
closer to our friends, our family,
our city, sometimes our university.
And this summer, it's gonna make us
all feel closer to, uh, the entire
country and to what it means to be an
American and an American sports fan,
and that's really, really powerful.
And the only way that we have
to try to put a number to those
emotions that are impossible to put
a number to is through your data.
Like, that's our best opportunity to
express those emotions numerically.
And I think it's gonna
be a great World Cup.
I, I think we're gonna have a lot
of business success, but I think
more importantly, it's just gonna
be a really special moment of
national pride and unity, and a
demonstration of what sports can mean,
so can't wait for it to get started
Julie DeTraglia: This is probably the
first World Cup tournament in which
streaming is going to have probably
a larger proportion of the total
viewing as will be on Fox and Tubi.
And that'll be really interesting to
kind of understand, you know, what
happens to that audience and why they
might choose one platform over another.
And it's not the first
time that's happened.
I mean, for most leagues, most of the
distributors will also put a game on a
streaming service, the one that they own,
and certainly Tubi has had a Super Bowl.
Um, but, you know, times have
changed a little bit since Fox's
last Super Bowl, and I think we'll
probably see some different data
emerge, you know, out of this game.
Brian Fuhrer: Yeah, I, I, I think
one of the most interesting things
that's happening across the, the
whole media ecosystem is these
multi-platform companies really
leveraging their streaming platforms,
uh, in a very positive way.
There's not this g- conflict anymore.
There's not this competition
between the linear and streaming.
They're really coming together.
And of course, the, a great example was,
uh, the Super Bowl on Fox, where we saw
Tubi really contribute significantly.
And what happened is it's not
just y- an incremental audience,
it's a different audience.
Right.
It's younger and in, in a
lot of cases, more ethnic.
And we'll see, um, especially with
the World Cup, you know, what the
audience is, how they dif- differ.
I mean, we, we've just seen great success
with, uh, NBCU and the Olympics, what
they did with Peacock, and i- it was
amazing to me, most recently, this most
recent Super Bowl, 20% of the audience
of the Super Bowl came from Peacock,
which is, you know, when you think back,
not that long ago, an astounding number.
Julie DeTraglia: Yeah,
and that's really huge.
That's a big, big number for a
service that you have to pay for,
and Tubi, of course, is free.
And so I think we saw that with the
prior Super Bowl that Fox carried, but
also I think that's gonna make a even
larger impact on something like the World
Cup that's so sustained over so long.
And it's one of those events, you
know, and I spent a lot of time
working at NBC, like the Olympics,
where people don't even really know
it's happening until it's upon them.
We used to do a lot of work to test
to see if consumers knew, like,
where are the Olympics this year?
And up until, like, the week
before, they wouldn't remember.
You know?
They'd be like, "I'm not sure. I think
China?" But once they started, and the
stories started coming out of it, and
it starts… You know, there wasn't
really a lot of social media back
then, but people start talking about
it, and it starts getting newsworthy.
This is a five-week tournament that
is global, and it's gonna be huge,
and I think that's when we'll begin
to see a lot of different kinds of
viewer behavior patterns because it's
extended, and it's global, and it's just
really gonna grow and grow and grow.
Brian Fuhrer: And you know, you mentioned
something really important, and the, the
whole time zone area and the geography
is gonna be super- Yeah … I, I think
that's what's gonna drive the audiences
in a way that we've never seen before.
And- The immediacy of it happening locally
on, in our time zones, I think, uh,
that's where we're gonna s- another thing
that's gonna drive audiences considerably.
You know, as we've looked across the
fast platforms in general, one of
the things we see, uh, that I think
is interesting and, and we'll be
talking about here is they really
under-index from a Hispanic perspective.
And I think it's gonna be really
interesting to look at what happens
to Tubi, um, the Tubi audience as we
break out the Hispanic for, for World
Cup, because it might have a lingering
and on, you know, a, an ongoing impact
to the Tubi audience with having
been promoted to, uh, Hispanics.
Julie DeTraglia: Yeah, and the other part
of it that's gonna be super interesting
is what happens in social media around
all of this, and all of the creators
and sports creators that are out there
that will, you know, follow and cover
the World Cup in different ways than
I think we've probably seen before.
That's gonna capture an entirely different
set of fans and have an entirely different
kind of engagement, and all of that's
gonna build towards really driving
an audience back to see these games.
Brian Fuhrer: From that standpoint,
it's gonna be really interesting.
And I, we, I mean, we've seen soccer
building, and I, I just ha- don't
think it's hit its moment yet.
I mean, obviously, the Women's World
Cup was the most memorable moment
probably in the history of US soccer.
Let's see what happens, um, this
year i- in our time zones when,
you know, with, with full coverage.
And the other thing to think about,
sports coverage every year, the
technology, the product just gets better.
Whatever the sport is, the coverage,
um, you know, the camera work, the,
uh, high definition, uh, continues to
improve, and I'm, I'm really kind of
interested to see how that, that impacts
the overall audiences as well, because
it's just a better consumer product.
Julie DeTraglia: Right.
Especially for a game like soccer
that has traditionally just
sort of been camera on field.
Mm. And there's not a whole lot
that you can really do with it.
It'll be interesting to see how
that changes with these games.
I think it's changed over the years,
because you really need to have a
different kind of engagement for
the audience to really get into it.
It's always been sort of pulled back and
really far away, and if you can bring fans
closer to the players, to the teams, to
the action, that's what really sort of
cements that kind of fandom over time.
Brian Fuhrer: Uh, you know, I think
that's a, a great point, 'cause soccer
is maybe a little bit of a nuanced
game, and for a casual fan- Right
you don't notice the nuances.
But when, you know, with the ability
of having all the cameras to see
how, you know, how different each
different t- for example, each
different type of kick is, if you're,
if it's a, like you say, a pulled back
camera, f- for somebody that isn't a
soccer expert, you might not notice.
But they'll be able to really,
I think, highlight those
differences as they go through.
So it's g- it's gonna be really
interesting to see what happens.
You know, a- and as soccer comes in,
there might be a corollary between
the amount of international content,
for example, on services like Netflix.
Uh, i- that's had a really, really
big impact on overall streaming.
Now we'll see, you know, if soccer can
make the same kind of an impact to the
sports environment in the US as well.
Julie DeTraglia: And I think also we're
gonna see this sort of juxtaposition
of this global event Magnified locally.
So we know here in New York, uh, we're
gonna see games at MetLife Stadium.
That's gonna alter the way people
live for that, you know, month
and a half that that's going on.
And we're gonna see, I think,
personalities emerge, not just from
players, but just local coverage of
some of these events, and the cities
are gonna be way into it, and it's gonna
cause a lot of mayhem, but I think it'll
be really, really exciting to watch.
Brian Fuhrer: I think… D-
did we get our tickets yet?
Are we ready to go?
Julie DeTraglia: No, I'm ready to go.
You know, if there's one thing we
want our listeners to take away,
it's that soccer fandom is here.
We're about to see these massive numbers
we know for this year's tournament,
and that growth will likely continue
throughout 2026 and into 2027 when
we have the FIFA Women's World Cup.
Brian Fuhrer: Special thank you to
Mike Mulvihill, who's always a great
guest, and his ability to connect
the audiences with the broadcast
strategy that he's so good at.
Find us anytime at theroundout.com,
and we'll see you there