(Anthony) When conversations about love and sex arise sometimes people only hit the surface
(Elle) with us we're gonna dive deeper
(Anthony) I'm Anthony Brinson
(Elle) I'm Elle Fromm
(Both) and this is a going deeper podcast.
(Anthony) That definitely was the first take anyway
(Elle) definitely the first take
(Anthony) hopefully you guys stay with us through the journey this is Episode Four from not mistaken right?
(Elle) Yessir episode four we're very excited
(Anthony) part two of the polyamorous relationships series
(Elle) yeah see when I came up with it I called it just the polyamorous relationship series but the more research I do the more I realize how how confusing all of this terminology is yeah like to reference last episode with me just being like more quiet. I'm sitting there like so much information to come in on and I didn't even I didn't even know all of that. And apparently you got more. I yeah, I thought we had I thought we were over the hump because we talked about the difference between polygamy and polyamory and then we talked about polygamy, polyandry bigamy, it was just, it was a lot coming at us. But I thought we were over the hump truly I did. But we are not. It turns out there's more. So the term that I've found most in clinical like journals and that most people seem to use is c and m, which is for consensual non monogamy and there are a couple different like ways to do that. So we might say polyamory, we might say consensual non monogamy. But they are different. So there's okay there's like open relationships. This is a quote from we talked about this last episode, but sometimes citing a source can be difficult in a podcast format. So this is from a journal that is titled okay, it is titled identifying context related socio cultural predictors of negative attitudes toward polyamory, right? I know. No, I know guys. So the quote is that Barker that's some study from that's a person who published something in 2005 defined polyamory as relationship orientation grounded on a set of notions according to which it is acceptable to sustain multiple intimate and sexual relationships with many people. And then another journal, I found that I only have two sources this time guys, is called desire, familiarity and engagement, and polyamory results from a national sample of single adults in the United States. And that one set that one the quote from that is common forms of consensual non monogamy include open relationships, swinging relationships, and polyamorous relationships. So like I said, there's a lot of vocab going on, because there's social and sexual non monogamy. So there, you could be with somebody. And it could be, you're the only person that you're romantically with, but you have other sexual partners. And it's not, it's not great, like, it's not fair to say that there are no strings attached, because sometimes you can be friends with these people, but you don't fall in love with them. And then other times, you could be like romantically, dating lots of people, but only having sex or sexual relations of any kind with one person. And then sometimes, all the parties involved date one another. And sometimes they don't, sometimes it's like, like an open relationship usually involves two people who are together, and then they date other people separately. So they don't interact with the other person's partners. Or if they do, it's very minimal. Whereas sometimes, like, if you've ever heard the term throttle, that's usually three people who are all dating each other. So, in terms of terminology, we want to clarify it is not cheating, we are not talking about cheating, because cheating is a betrayal of trust. Cheating is when you agree to be monogamous with one person and then you break their trust, and either have romantic or sexual relations with somebody else without their knowledge and without their consent. So that's not what we're talking about. today. We are talking about just relationships outside of monogamy and what they can look like.
(Anthony) Yeah, and I don't know if I want to go like off the agenda off schedule, but we're probably we're obviously going to talk a bit about my own experience with being in a polyamorous relationship and with you mentioning the open relationship thing, it reminded both of us or it popped in both of our heads and talk about like Jada and well, there's a situation that's going on because it was mentioned in how some people are like, kind of pick and choosing what to be upset about, or what's the point out and then in other aspects. One of the people is just talking too much. But, um, yeah, where should we start first?
(Elle) Yeah, we're gonna get into Anthony's experience and to Will and Jada later because I think they're a very visible representation. I have an open relationship, but they don't speak for all people. Definitely. And also, no matter how much somebody shares with the public with the internet, we still we don't know these people. Yeah, we don't know their relationship dynamic. Like they can talk as much as they'd like, but we don't know what's going on with them. So we're gonna get into that later. But one thing we want to talk about is that polyamory is on the rise. So polyamory has always existed, but it is in the United States and Canada. It is, it is on the rise. So this is from the one of the sources I mentioned earlier. I think it is from the the second one by Amy Seymours. Amanda, and guess Holman and Justin are Garcia. They This is they said they took their results part of their results, not all of their results. They did their own research, but they mentioned data from the census which says that one in six people desire to engage in polyamory. One in nine people have engaged in polyamory at some point in their life. One in 15, people said that they know somebody who has been or is currently engaged in polyamory. And among participants who were not personally interested in polyamory, one in seven indicated that they respect people who engage in polyamory. Because not only is there like a lot to talk about when it comes to consensual non monogamy. But there's also a lot to talk about in terms of people's reactions. Because people can react very negatively, they can react positively they can. And one thing that comes up a lot is how do these people have and raise children. And there are so many different ways to raise children. And what matters is that children are cared for and loved and provided with the resources that they need to grow. So that's kind of another a whole nother situation that we're not really going to get into. But that is a big factor when it comes to public perceptions of consensual non monogamy. Yeah, so that about, I think that about covers the statistical side when it comes to consensual non monogamy and how it's becoming more common in the United States, and how it takes on many different forms and looks like many different things. So Anthony is going to tell us about his his experience with this and I want you to Yeah, just make sure you include age because I think you've told me a bit of this story before and I think it's relevant.
(Anthony) Yes. So I'm gonna try and be as detailed as possible without like, exposing anybody, like, I'm not gonna give no names, names or anything. But to give reference, or to give context. I mean, this was in high school. This is in 10th grade. I don't I don't remember if I was 15 or 16. But I remember it was 10th grade. And I had remember, I asked the young lady out and she agree, like to be my girlfriend and all that. But she mentioned like, Hey, I just want to let you know I'm polyamorous and I'm like, Heck is that? So the way I remember her describing is that she says she has love for multiple people. And I'm like, okay, okay, you know, how to add on sound like no crazy. And she mentioned that she's Nia, online relationship with two other people. And I'm like, no, okay, all right, I'm hearing you. I'm hearing you out. So it was a young lady and a young man. And coincidentally, as I'll get to the end of this story, I'm still friends with the young lady, but she gave me the young lady's name gave me the young man's name and she told me that possible you could say like person a person B Person C because I'm already getting lost. So person a girlfriend a time person be the first person a part of the part of the polyamorous relationship and person B second person. So she was in an online relationship with how many other people just one B and C, so two, two, okay, okay, so So including you she was dating three people? Yes. Okay. So as relationship went on the relationship actually was until I was with Janae for a year the longest relationship I had been in we were together for 10 months and as time went on, I learned more and more that the situation wasn't for me because I don't know how PG or PG 13 I should be but she would say
(Elle) It's a sex and love podcast
(Anthony) Yeah, but I don't know how graphic I should be. But she was saying certain things to each person B and C that may have been sexual or with like, I love you like that phrase meant and still means a lot to me and she would tell them that as well. And then the while she would also say like sexual things she'd want to do with them and like they also both lived out of state so she was saying like she wanted to go see them and things of that nature and it it confused me because I didn't want I didn't know what polyamorous relationship was before the situation but I'm very monogamous that I learned as I grew up that I'm very like one person. I don't say certain things to anybody else but you I don't like show my body to anybody else but you and your not really following those guidelines for lack of better words, and there was a big situation that end up happening where I was trying to get more use to the situation before I ended up realizing like it wasn't for me. And I asked them like, Hey, can I reach out to the young lady or Person B. And I tried to get acquainted with her. So she agreed, and we ended up start talking and Person A start to feel as though I valued person be more than her. She felt as though I was trying to do actually gave a term for this, I was trying to have both of them as my girlfriend at the same time. That's interesting that she would get jealous when she's the one who suggested it. And with that situation, it was very, it's very odd, because, like you just mentioned, she's the one who presented the situation to me, and I was trying to learn everything. And this ended up being a situation like, even past our relationship, like she would have randomly I remember, she did this twice. She texted me all like New Years, I think it was and be like, Hey, I'm just it's still traumatic for me. But did you I just want to see if you're lying. And I want to ask, Did you value her in our relationship more than me? And I was, especially as like a 15 to 17 year old age range. I'm like, one, we've been broken up for a minute. Like, this is the second time you've messaged me about that, but to my answer is not gonna change like I don't. And pieces of the situation are still like foggy because it's been so long times great, but which day and that's crazy. But from what I remember, I remember telling her like, no, like, I'm not lying, I didn't value her more. And like, that's not the type of guy I was trying to be in that type of guy I am. And like I mentioned earlier, I'm still friends with Person B. And we've still kept our relationships throughout. Throughout this time, but this is also to give a little bit more context. I'm not gonna go too much in detail because a bit of personal like, kind of triggering for me, but this is the same person I was telling you.
(Elle) Oh, with the Yeah, okay. Oh, this is all this all in one. Really? Wow. So it's your first relationship?
(Anthony) It wasn't. This was like maybe third.
(Elle) All right, I was gonna say it this way. Your first that is a crazy way to be introduced to Yeah, put it okay. It wasn't.
(Anthony) it was it was a lot and then also being a guy who ended up realized I was more monogamous, the guy that was a part of the polyamorous relationship, her telling him specific or Person A telling person see specifically like, oh, I want to do this to you or, or just things of that nature. It made it made me feel some type of way because I'm like
(Elle) You mean sexual things?
(Anthony) Yes
(Elle) Okay, because we talked earlier about using specific terminology, but I know when you're sharing a personal experience, it can be tricky.
(Anthony) Yeah. And plus, I don't want to be like, Oh, she said she wanted to Okay, so that's why I know the six love podcasts, but I don't want to I'm pretty sure people don't want to hear that. So. Um, yeah, so it didn't make me feel some type of way because Person C was another guy. And I was feeling like, Okay, well, now you tell him saying things. You don't even know you were telling me that type of stuff. But all in all, because I'm trying to be I'm trying to be a bit humorous, but also just tell the truth, from my perspective that it just wasn't for me, I hope Person A ended up still being good with their lives, whether they chose to still be polyamorous or not. And with me still be a cool person, be it our relationship got stronger, as strong as it could because she lives the young lady doesn't live in Michigan, but I'm glad that I was still able to maintain that relationship. And then I don't know what happened to Person C, but I wish all three of them the best. And it was interesting to have that experience so early in my life, like around like, 15 Yeah, like that's so crazy looking back on it. And yeah.
(Elle) So, you mentioned something specifically about being a monogamous person being a monogamous guy. And in one of the studies, it refers to like the impact of the monogamous ideal on polyamorous relationships. So the the the expectation that monogamy is the norm. It has a lot to do with why people can view polyamory in a negative light. And it's also unfortunately, something that people will say when they get caught cheating, they're like, we're not meant to be monogamous, like, okay, that's not what we're talking about here. And we're talking about a betrayal of trust. This doesn't really have anything to do with what you said. But not you being you. You're the hypothetical person that I have just made up to get mad at. So yeah, our expectation of monogamy does influence how we perceive polyamorous people but like you said, you just it's not for you. You don't have a problem when other people do it. Yeah, no, no, I don't really care what other people do exactly if you're not hurting anybody, you know, like, and to each their own.
(Anthony) The main thing you mentioned like if it's consensual, then it's all good, because you mentioned like the difference in like cheating open relationships. And just when it's acknowledged that, hey, we can both do our own things. That's another thing that kind of goes on in this community where the guy wants to be polyamorous, but or there's a term, specifically when the guy has multiple girlfriends the guy wants to be, but when the girl kinda like gets out there, it gets like a push back.
(Elle) These are these what I'm about to say these are anecdotal stories. So that if this isn't a trend, my apologies, but there are anecdotal stories of lots and lots of women and men to talking about how like their husband, or they wanted to hope the man wanted to in heterosexual relationships or marriages. The man wants to open the relationship, because he wants to date other women. And then when the when the woman in the relationship, she's the one that's getting the attention, and especially if he's not, they get pissed because they thought that they could just start sleeping with other women and that the their wife wouldn't start sleeping with other men, and it was just going to be fine. And then that's not what happens. And then they regret it. But like I said, that's that's an anecdotal thing. And one thing I do about your story that I really respect Person A for is that she told you up front. Yeah, she wasn't like, it wasn't a secret. She was like, this is this is what I like this is yeah.
(Anthony) And even with me, like, that's why I wanted to make sure that was one of the first things I pointed out because this wasn't something that, like you said, this wasn't surprised. I wasn't shocked. I just had to learn what it was throughout time. And as I learned, it was one of the things where we both talked about like, this just isn't for me. And with a situation like that. I'm impressed on myself. I'm impressed on her end that she was very upfront about that type of thing, instead of like trying to hide it. And then I'm impressed on myself that I was able to learn that just not a situation I was supposed to be in. But yeah,
(Elle) I feel like I could do it. Honestly, I've said this before, and people are surprised, or they're like, really, so like two things. One, the person I'm with now doesn't want to so I would never cheat on him. Like, that's not what I'm saying. But we don't know where life is gonna take us. It might work out for us, it might not. So but in the future, if I'm not with my current partner, if he's listening to this, I am sorry. But we like I said, we don't know where life is gonna take us. I feel like I could do it. And I also feel like I don't know until I try. And when I say I could do it, I honestly think I could, like, be in a relationship. I don't think I could be like, a man has me has his girlfriend and then somebody else and we're not in we're like involved in any way. I think it would need to be fully equal where like, I don't think I could do like seven people. That's that's too much for me. But like, I feel like I could be in a throttle. I was about to ask, so would it be a throttle? Or you having multiple partners? He haven't multiple? No, I yeah, I couldn't I don't think I could do an open relationship. Because my the way that my brain works, I'm always going to be thinking about like, Who's he with? What she like this? And this and or what's he like? You know what I mean? Whereas if I know the person, then it's there's less jealousy, there's less worry for me. But as somebody who's attracted to both men and women, I like I could see that happening for me. And this was an interesting statistic. It was, let me find it because it was in there. And I thought I copied and pasted it. And if I didn't, I'm going to be really sad. Oh my gosh, is it not in there? Well, how devastating and this is an honest to god quote, I promise this is really you guys, it was talking about how non monogamy is more common within the LGBTQ Q or just the queer community. That's a phrase I prefer to use. It is and that doesn't mean that bisexual people or gay people are more likely to cheat on you. Because that's not true. That's just a myth. That's something that people a very negative stereotype. But non monogamy is more common in the queer community. And that makes sense to me. Because if you're already going outside of what is considered, I'm putting this in air quotes, because normal romantic or sexual behavior, then it's like it's, it makes sense to me, like I said, just but I could see myself being in a trouble because I have a lot of love to give. And I am not a super jealous person. I just jealousy. It's very time consuming. And it's just like, it seems like it's an example of somebody who has been jealous. It's kind of an exhausting feeling. And it just leads to a lot of insecurity and self doubt. And it's just it's not worth it. It's like I've been jealous before and I just don't like it. I mean, romantic jealousy. There's obviously different there's like familial jealousy. If you're really ambitious, you could have professional jealousy. But romantic jealousy is very, it's just tiring. Yeah. So I don't think I could, I don't think I could not know the other person or not know the other partner. But if it's just like three people, I could totally do that. We'd have a blast.
(Anthony) So to ask you a question on boundaries. What Would you be your boundaries in a situation like that? If you were in a polyamorous relationship? If you would have any?
(Elle) That is such a good question, because I was just talking to my therapist about this actually, not, not specifically polyamory, but relationships in general. And one thing she said was that you should have rules not just for your relationship, but rules for yourself. Like ask yourself, what, what won't I do? Like? What? Like, could I date somebody whose family can't accept me? Could I date somebody who doesn't share my core values, that kind of stuff. So you have to set rules not only in your relationships, but for yourself. And if I were in like a polygamous or there, there I go again, with the terminology. polyamorous relationship. I don't think I like I couldn't be lied to. That would be a big thing for me. Like if you're seeing somebody else other than, like, just Yeah, I couldn't be lied to that would be my boundary. And I think another boundary of mine would be I guess maybe that's only it. I guess it's just the one I might think of more later. Who knows. And, like I've mentioned, during throughout this podcast, the situation like that wouldn't be for me. But let's just say I give it another chance. That would be one of the main and probably only boundary as well to just have the communication as clear as possible. So everybody knows what's going on as far as who's with who, who's saying what to whatever. And then I would also like to know the person as well. So like, kind of be like a horrible situation. But yeah, I feel like with situations like these, when you're outside outsider looking in, and somebody in this situation is good to just, one be open to understanding these things, and learning these things and doing your research. If you have questions. And if you're in the situation, just talk to your partner or partners and see what's best for you all. This, for me is just one of those things where I think I would have to try it to fully know how I feel about it. And if I tried to, and I hated it, and I tried it, and I hated it, and I can listen to this podcast and be like, dang, I was wrong. But that mean, that's life. Yeah. And if you want to move to our last thing on the agenda, one of the last things on the agenda with the Smiths or even other last night, yeah, I guess they're still married. So the Smiths, yeah. So Will Smith and Jada Pinkett Smith who have been together for a while? I actually haven't. No, I mean, like, if you think of the start of that relationship, Oh, okay. There has recently been a lot of attention on Jada, and will because Jada published a memoir, and certain people and sources will cherry picked quotes and the most salacious parts of it to make into a story and to just kind of vilify her. So I said this earlier, but no matter how much the two of them talk about this, and boy, do they talk about it a lot. Like on the read table talk, this was a couple of years ago after her to use her own words, her entanglement with August. Like there's an actual quote of the two of them saying ride together, died, ride together, die together bad marriage for life, which is an insane statement. But no matter how much they talk about this, we don't know their relationship. We don't know what it's like to be them.
(Anthony) Yeah, we don't know these people. And as much as they try to put their information to the public. It is their relationship is not our lives. It's not public to us directly. Like we don't know them. We don't got their number. And I've seen I didn't fact check it, but I've seen information saying like, Oh, well, it's had his parts and being wrong, too. I think he's wrote his own book. He's said, like, in certain aspects of the relationship, he treated data wrong as well. And then obviously, data has gave information to I guess, expose themselves not even just will, and to keep my personal opinions aside, or most of my personal opinions, because I did me and Ill made a joke. Off mic sound like they should probably keep their mouth shut a bit. But
(Elle) yeah, it's like, I think that a lot of celebrities who have very successful marriages, or keep mostly keep them out of the public eye, and that I mean, that could also be why we think they're successful. Yeah, but like a lot of celebrities who are there who are married, don't talk about their relationship. Like I didn't know Andy Samberg was married for a really long time. Bruno Mars has been in a committed long term relationship for 10 years. Yes. So the perfect example I've heard, Jessica, I think it's pronounced Kanban is her last name. She's a supermodel. She's beautiful. They have a Rottweiler. I'm Bruno Mars super fan. This is why I know this. Do you know the single cover for locked out of heaven? With it's the woman's arms on her chest? That's her. That's Jessica Haley. Yes, he wrote When I was your man about her when they were going through like a rough patch, so wait a minute, so what what happened? How he flipped to Smoking off the window like what happened? Who he talking about? Well, he's had the same backup band for years. The the oh my gosh, if I forget them, I think it's the hooligans that's either hits fan names or his backup, because his first album is called dual ops and hooligans. Yeah, he's had the same backup band for most of the same people for a really long time on the 24 karat magic tour, he bought all of them gold Rolexes. That's pretty dope. Smoking out the window is also with Anderson talk. So he he, like, people take songs from different songwriters from different inspirations in their life from people in their circle. So I don't know who's smoking about out the window is about?
(Anthony) I guess that's a good point. It's a good point. And what I was saying about Jada, and will is just to keep most of my personal opinions aside, and the day like they've both tried to mention, they are really committed to the fact that they want to stay married legally. And I'm pretty sure they've said that their relationship is open. And what I alluded to earlier when it was saying like they've been together for a minute, apparently, they've been separated for a while. I think it was six years. You could fact check me on that if you want to check it out. I saw that too. But like they've what they Jada said that they haven't been together for a long time. So when the situation happened at the Oscars, the situation. Yeah, I'm just keep it like that. She was saying that she was surprised when he did that, because they had been like they had announced or they knew that they weren't together. But yeah, she said she was surprised to hear him referred to her as his wife. Yeah. And I think she ended up also saying like, well just wasn't comfortable announcing that yet. Which is why like the public didn't know. But this is why to bring it all full circle. Communication is important. If you're going to be someone to put your relationship out there in the public, which me personally, I wouldn't want to do it like it's a reference a different couple. Like, I don't know if you're familiar with DDG. And I always say our first name wrong. Haley, Haley Bailey, Halle Bailey, the Italie. Yeah, their relationship. It's it's very unfortunate to see the hate he gets just for like being him and then like, the relationship is heavily criticized.
(Elle) So quick lesson in journalism. We just cut something out because Anthony was talking about another couple who's been in the public eye, which is Hallie Bailey and DDG. We recently is it DDG? Or yes, she d DJ. It stands for Darryl Dwayne Granberry, Jr. Yes, cool name. They've been in the public eye because there are rumors that she is pregnant. And that's a lesson in journalism to me, because I thought that that was confirmed.
(Anthony) Yeah. And I also
(Elle) My apologies
(Anthony) I was telling her a story, um, it got cut out. But this will be reiterated that I saw a similar post that said they were married and expecting the baby. And it's so crazy with this lesson in journalism, because two sources confirm that, like, it was a, it was a source that claim to do an interview with with her. And then another source confirmed that that was true. And it took for me finding a third source to third source to confirm that. A situation afterward they took they misquoted her they took a quote from somebody else and put it in the interview with Ms. Bailey.
(Elle) Yes, Isaw that I saw that it was uh, yes, it was I think it was one of the women from Little Mix. Lee and I think is her name I'm not familiar with which and if you if you if you see which member of Little Mix it was, you will see why they got confused. Racism. But yeah, they they got the two of them mixed up. Yeah, so that's, that's a lesson in journalists. It's that that that's that's kind of the danger of keeping of whether or not your relationship is in the public eye and when it comes to Will and Jada. And they don't represent everybody who engages in consensual non monogamy. They don't represent everybody with an open relationship. They don't represent everybody with like a throttle kind of situation. And I think that they generate a lot of negative press. And I think that can fuel people's perception of everybody who engages in consensual non monogamy. And I think that's really unfortunate.
(Anthony) Yeah, cuz like you mentioned, when you put it in quotation marks like the norm quote, unquote, monogamous relationship, one person, person a person B, and usually one man, one woman I was I didn't want to say that part. But just the truth is usually what's considered normal one man, one woman, heterosexual, monogamy, etc. As time goes on, as time has gone on, it's important to be more open and to learn that that's not going to be everybody's experience. Like everybody's not gonna like the gender they're supposed to like, and people are going to venture out to different things, and unless it'll have some else to add to kind of go on our closing The main thing that I want people to take away from this one, besides all the phenomenal research Dale did throughout these two episodes, thank you. Just just communicate as good as you can like whether if something isn't your cup of tea, if something is your cup of tea, even if you're in the middle of something like still always communicate what's going on how you're feeling. And it just leads to so much less stress, especially with what Elon mentioned about jealousy. Like it's, it's really not worth it at all. Jealousy isn't exhaustive, emotion, negativity, in general, I found it's just very exhausting. Especially when you're opposed to be with a partner. And like, that ended day with I can go on like, it can be trust, consent, at the end of the day all can be under the umbrella of communication.
(Elle) there's one one more thing. I'm tracking trends like this can be a little difficult because there is a sense of is this becoming more common? Or are people just talking about it more, like there's a graph of left handedness where, like being left handed, it looks like it was becoming more common. It wasn't, people just weren't forced to be to write with their their right hand anymore. And then it eventually leveled off. So stuff like this can be can be difficult to when we are not data scientists. I was reading these these two academic journals. And it was I mean, I'm, I consider myself fairly intelligent, but they were both a little difficult to understand. But I know that tracking trends and a sociological manner is difficult because like I said before, it's the question of, is this becoming more common? Or is it becoming more acceptable to admit? Not really admit, might not be the right word, but except maybe, yeah, to say about yourself to say yes, I am somebody who does X, Y, and Z. But yeah, that's that's sums up this is though we finished our polyamory series.
(Anthony) Yeah. I'm excited that we've been able to do this like kinda like two part special because you gave like a huge historical background of it. And then even in this episode gave more history on it. And the main point of this podcast, I know, it'll jokes to my friends who are kind of guests in the room. Hi, Ariana and Kiana. But that, like we have haters now. And unfortunately, it was mainly due to the design. But the point of this podcast is to educate as best as we can. Yeah, like Elon mentioned, we're not data people. We're not doctors. And even as journalists, we make mistakes, and we try to even if we edit some things out to point out those mistakes and talk about how we're just people then today, we're two people on a microphone, we're headphones, and we're not officials have these type of con conversations and content. So we're just trying our best to educate and talk about our own experiences and be as objective as possible still showing personality and making the content interesting as possible.
(Elle) And we want your feedback. Hit me up at L from at state news.com are not L dot from which is so sick. I love my last name, my email address is always wrong. It's E L L E dot fram is F as in Frank R O M M at state news.com. Or yeah, like let us know what you think we want to hear your feedback because we want to know like what can we improve? What did you like what topics would you want to see us talk about because that matters to us.
(Anthony) It definitely does. And with that being said, we're always going to take a deep dive but sometimes good to come up for air.
(Elle) This has been the going deeper podcast.
(Anthony) Bye guys.
(Elle) Bye