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Small group leaders, pastors, and more discussing strategies for growth and community in church groups. The Small Group Network is an international ministry that equips churches to engage in deeper discipleship and community.
Louisa: Hello!
And welcome to S G Squared.
Pastor Steve Gladen pulls from over 25
years of small group ministry experience
to encourage and equip listeners like
you to lead small group ministry.
So let's listen, and learn, together.
Speaker: Welcome to SG squared.
Steve Gladden on small groups.
Derek here with the Man of the Hour.
Steve Gladden.
How are you my friend?
Speaker 2: Hey, it's
doing really, really good.
You know, we're, uh, spring is in the air.
I mean, actually Spring has been in the
air in Southern California, probably
since January one, but, but unless we
digress and talk about anybody else
in the country that may be getting
a cold wave or a wet wave or a.
Storm, wave, whatever,
whatever's happening out there.
But we're doing good.
We're enjoying life.
I should put it that way.
Speaker: So what is the temperature
right now on good old, sunny
so cow there in Orange County,
Speaker 2: you know, let's not,
let's not boast about things
we shouldn't boast about.
So it's uh, uh, I'll be in short
sleeves, let's put it that way.
Speaker: It must be nice.
Must be nice.
Yeah.
Up here in the Great Pacific Northwest.
Little different story.
I would imagine the same is, uh,
true of my friends in the Midwest
that are watching and listening.
Uh,
Speaker 2: yeah.
Speaker: We're probably not all out
in t-shirts, but, uh, hey, I'm just
glad that winter is fading away and.
Summer is approaching.
Those are the days we live for
in the great Pacific Northwest.
Speaker 2: Well, you know,
I did talk to a pastor.
It's all relative because I was talking
to a pastor and he was in a T-shirt and
I go, dude, what's, 'cause he's up in
the upper north part, uh, uh, as, as we
would say in the, uh, uh, the team up
north area and, um, using a short sleeve.
I go, dude, what's the temperature?
And he goes, it's 41 and sunny.
That's going.
Oh.
Oh, so that's relative.
It's all relative.
Speaker: It is.
I, one other quick thought.
I remember when I lived in
Alaska all those years ago.
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: I lived in Fairbanks,
which is what they call real Alaska.
Like we're talking, this ain't
Anchorage, Seattle mini light.
This is real Alaska, where
you get 40 below winters.
And so after having
experienced several 40 below.
Temperatures sweep through the area.
When, when the temperature went
up to zero, I would literally go
out in a t-shirt to get the mail
and put the garbage out because
it felt so warm versus minus 40.
So it is all relative.
Speaker 2: There we go from the man.
Speaker: So, uh, our listeners
probably are wondering, uh, they've
seen the title of this episode,
which is their real question.
You should be asking.
So Steve, what's the gist of this episode?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's,
uh, a, a small group point people.
There are so many questions,
uh, that you can be asking.
I mean, matter of fact, I wrote a, I
wrote a whole book on 20 questions.
As a small group point
person, you should be asking.
And what can happen so often is the,
the, the tyranny of the urgent sometimes
can, uh, weigh us into questions that.
Aren't really the real
question we should be asking.
Uh, sometimes it's the staff or the
senior leader that wants to go a
different, uh, wants to go in a particular
direction, and then just the realities.
I mean, even when I was on staff at
Saddleback or other churches, you may
be called the small group pastor, or you
may be called the discipleship pastor or
whatever it is, but you had a number of
things that just came into your regular.
Daytime job that would, uh, not
derail you, but that would, you know,
kind of get you doing all different,
all church projects or there was a
wedding or a funeral that came up,
or, or different pieces like that.
So there, there, there's all kinds
of good questions that are there,
but we just, we tend to miss the,
really the most important question
that we, we've gotta drill into.
Speaker: And before we get to the
main question, um, what do we all
agree on from this process that
you're kind of describing here?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and I, and I would say
there, there's, there's a lot of
things that, uh, we can agree on.
I think every one of us would say
that, you know, it, it, that are
what we are called to do when there's
temple courts and house to house.
Temple Courts is really
driving, uh, relevant teaching.
It's driving, uh, for the culture,
it's driving, uh, you know,
what's the vision of the church?
Where's it going?
What are they trying to do with
that in the house to house world?
You know, we're, we're trying
to help people, you know, go
on that spiritual journey.
We're trying to help them fill that,
that spiritual void that's out there.
Regardless, it all does
start with connection.
Um, we call it the second
step out of the weekend.
We want them to get some and, and
with some type of grouping of people
so that they can, uh, you know, when
they come to the weekend, they have
something else that's giving them that,
that stickiness that that's out there.
And so we wanna be,
wanna make sure that, um.
That, that people, you know, have
somewhere to go to after that.
Now it's a super important that
we understand that connection
is, is very, very important.
And I think no matter what
strategy you go with, it's gonna
be important for you to see that.
Um, connection is probably something we
would all agree on, where we need to go.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely.
So is the, um, connection strategy
bad or the wrong angle to take
based on what you just said there?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Um, where, where I would go with,
and where, where I would say is
that, you know, uh, it's gotta
be, it is gotta be the first part.
Matter of fact, when you look
across the United States.
There are seven basic small group
models, uh, that are out there.
Uh, all of 'em have different strengths,
different weaknesses, uh, but, but
it all, they all get kicked into that
first gear of, of what's the connection
process, which is a question like
we we're, we're always asking is.
You know, uh, how are
we connecting people?
How are we retaining people with that?
But when I look through the seven
strategies as I jotted 'em down real,
real quick, because I'm sure some people
are gonna be asking, and one of the
things we're working on in the small
group network is getting a course on
each one of these strategies so that
you can see, you know, well, you know,
what are the pros and the cons and
which one fits better in my culture?
But they all have some form of connection.
There's, there's the cell model.
That that is out there.
That came from Paul Youngi.
Cho got kind of readapted by Dale
Galloway, actually from the Pacific
Northwest when in his church.
And it's kind of eked out in different
centric, uh, circles and stuff like that.
Joel Comiskey wrote a,
wrote a ton on that.
And, uh, good model for
fits in your church.
Uh, there's the free
market approach to that.
Came out of, uh, uh, well, I would say if
you read Pure Purpose-Driven Church from
Rick Warren in the early nineties, uh,
it echoed that, but also from, uh, Ted
Haggard, uh, in, um, um, oh my goodness,
from Colorado Springs in Colorado,
wrote a book, uh, fly Fishing and Dog.
Dog walking or something like
that, as a book like that,
that talks about free market.
Uh, then there's the host model from
Saddleback Church, which, uh, you
know, if you've been on this channel,
you've heard that in nauseum from me.
Uh, there's the meta model that Bill
Donahue worked through with Carl George
a lot from Willow Creek is the Willow
Creek Association, started in Willow
Creek, but I think Carl George kind of,
uh, kind of was a father of all that.
Then you have the missional
approach and, uh, uh, Todd from, um.
Can't, I'm spacing the church name
really quick right now, but, uh,
he's there, uh, on the missional
model approach that's right there.
Uh, you have the modified meta
movement that, uh, uh, bill
Willetts has kind of worked on.
You have, you know, a seasonal approach,
uh, that that's out there, which,
uh, Heather Zippel from National
Community Church, uh, in the DC area
has kind of pioneered with that and the
semester groups and stuff like that.
All that to say too
much, uh, detail on that.
But, uh, all that to say that not only
do we agree on it and it's necessary,
but I'm not sure it's the driving
question that we should be asking.
It's an impor, it's in a, it's
a good question, but it is a.
The right question that we should
be asking or drilling into.
So although there's all these different
starting points, they'll have connect,
they all have different ones, but
it's the first part of the strategy
that, that, you know, kind of kicks
off our house to house movement.
Speaker: So what, what would the
second half of the strategy be?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, good question.
Uh, I mean, 'cause when you got
the first half, you know, is kinda
working on the connection process.
There is a second half of the strategy,
but there'll be a driving question that
will drive both of them and kind of
every, everything we're talking about.
But that second half of the strategy,
uh, really is gonna be the arm of
spiritual formation or discipleship,
or making disciples or, uh, you
know, however your church terms it,
it'll take a process outta there Now.
Again, I am a A groups person
and I just wanna backtrack on the
connection side just a little bit.
I'm a groups person, but I, and I would
say that the weekend is hypercritical.
'cause if you don't have people to.
Uh, to connect and, and drive your
process, then nothing else is gonna
happen and what you can see, or it's
not gonna happen in a large scale,
if Peter wouldn't have preached the
sermon and 3000 people got saved, X 2
42 through 47 might not have been as,
as applicable, uh, for the the, where
the, where the church was going, but.
In all that, there is a
discipleship element that, that
flows underneath all of that.
So if I had to answer your question,
I would say there's, there's the
connection process, but there's
the discipleship process that's
gonna happen, uh, from that.
And there's a couple parts with
that, but we will see where we go.
And with that, if nothing else, I'll
bring it up on, you know, when we get
down, uh, a little further in the show.
Speaker: So when we're talking about
discipleship, you know, is this
something the small group, group point
person, um, needs to worry about?
Speaker 2: No.
Yeah, I mean, it, it, it's, it is
important because when you talk
about the small group point person,
uh, you've really gotta ask how
the, how the church is structured.
Because what you want to be able to do
is say, you know, depending on the model,
and I just listed seven of 'em really
quick for you, that, that are out there.
But depending on the model will depend
a lot on what, what you're gonna do.
So for in my context, when I was
at Saddleback with Rick Warren.
It was clear that he had a
two-prong approach to discipleship.
One part of it was it was the small
group point person's responsibility,
but we also worked hand in hand
with a team of people that worked
on cognitive resources and classes.
That, uh, the church was developing to
help you, uh, as an individual start
to grow and, and learn the more, the
cognitive disciplines of what's it mean to
fast, what's it mean to have a quiet time?
How do you read your Bible?
Uh, how do you do a, a, a spiritual, uh.
You know, a walking prayer time or prayer
or different spiritual disciplines.
There was a team that worked out the
content with that, but it was the
small groups, pers person's, you know,
reality to say this is what discipleship
is and this is what we gotta do.
Which kind of drives, um,
that, that question, so.
So it, it is, you know, when you, when
you ask the question, you know, does a
the point person have to worry about that?
It does depend on the structure, but
what I would say is that you have
to understand that the driving, the
driving question needs to be, you know,
what, what are you trying to produce?
What is that?
And it should echo.
Your whole discipleship strategy.
So often we get hung up into the whole
part, uh, of, you know, uh, in our role.
Of just, you know, one particular thing,
whether it's connection or maybe it's
all discipleship, or maybe you're doing
the serving groups or maybe you have,
you know, the missions arm of your
church or, or maybe it's the worship
arm of your church, whatever it is.
So often what happens is there's
no one sitting in the control tower
trying to figure out what is the real
question we should be asking, and
how is everybody driving towards it.
Speaker: Very interesting.
So, um, I guess my, my next goes to then
what, what's the responsibility of the
small group point person in all this?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
And, and it, it's, it's, it's
something that, you know, I think
a lot of what I've experienced in
the church is a lot of times, a lot
of the point people, uh, abdicate.
The the real question that needs
to be asked, and that is, what's
your discipleship strategy?
Because what happens is, is either
because of position, where it's at in
the food chain of your church or what,
something like that, oftentimes that we
don't feel like we have the, the clout
or the wherewithal to ask the question.
But I think what we gotta say is, your
responsibility is to, if you're in
charge of the house to house movement.
You've gotta know what, what you're
trying to produce in a disciple,
because if you don't, your training
can't line up towards that.
You won't know how to get your
coaching structure doing it.
You won't know how to,
um, pick your curriculum.
You won't know how to, uh, you know,
build the tools that you need to do, uh,
and, and explaining your, uh, training.
You know, what is a disciple or what
success for a small group leader.
And so for you as a small group
point person, you've got to,
uh, carry that mantle of saying.
If there is nobody else in the
church that's doing it, how can you
be the voice that that does that?
And I think oftentimes we
think that connection equals.
People growing in Christ
and just being discipled.
But what can happen so often is, is
there's not a pathway or a strategy,
whether you're doing a free market
approach, whether you're doing a sell
model, whether you're doing, uh, you
know, whatever, whatever you're gonna
do, even even with us and the host model.
We start with a very low bar, but
we've gotta drive them to maturity and
understanding what they're trying to do
in the kingdom world with discipleship,
and many times, what the small group
point person's gotta do is figure out
who's handling the cognitive approach
of discipleship and who's handling the.
The ability for, uh, for
discipleship to be understood
because it's not just cognitive.
It is, it is actually doing the
things that Christ asked us to do.
When you look at Acts 2 42 through
47, it is, there's a lot of things
that are cognitive in our part.
Meditating on the disciples teaching,
you know, applying it and working
through it and asking the tough
questions, but it's also about doing
it and making sure that it actually,
people see Christians in action.
And so.
A roundabout way is that saying there's
lots of good questions that are out there.
There's lots of good things that the
small group point person can do, but
your compass has gotta be centered.
Do north on what is your
discipleship process, what is it
that you're trying to produce?
Because till you know what
you're trying to produce, and
I'm talking about going beyond.
Cute sayings of what you're trying to do.
Ours is, you know, bounce the great
commission in the great commandment in
the heart of every person, in every group.
And that's a cute phrase
and that's a great slogan.
But if you don't have it, uh,
uh, drilled out from there.
What?
What are the tools?
What are the curriculum?
What are the trainings?
What are you coaching 'em on?
What are the different strategies?
So regardless of whatever model you're
doing in your small group movement
for your church, that's regardless
to the main question of saying who
is holding the discipleship piece?
And so that's what I would
encourage you in this show.
There's lots of good questions
and I get caught up by the
same questions all the time.
But if you don't know what your compass
is set for, do North, then you are gonna
miss and your wheels are gonna spin and
you're not gonna get much traction for
what you're trying to do in your church.
Speaker: This reminds me of one of
the first, it was the first lobby
gathering that I ever came to as a
young aspiring small group point person.
And, um, of course I was there
to learn as much as I could and,
Speaker 2: hmm.
Speaker: I remember I came up to
you and asked you, um, a couple
questions and you just took it
all back to what you just said.
You said, what kind of disciple
are you trying to produce?
And I was like, oh shoot,
I gotta go way back.
There's a lot more work to be done here.
Speaker 2: We'll, we'll,
we'll go with those.
Shoot, I remember you saying
something different, but that's okay.
I'm kidding.
I am totally kidding.
Speaker: The point is it wasn't, uh,
there was no quick fix, magical pill
to take, you know, and the latest
strategies, like you're saying, all these
different seven strategies and models
that we see it, it really goes back to,
man, what kind of disciple do you want
to build throughout their time in your
church, in your small group ministry?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you, you, you, you
just, you put a nice little exclamation
point to the, the point on the
strategies, because so often churches
run from model to model to model.
And it's not so much the, the, the
model's important because it, it
goes off the playbook of your church.
And so even with the transition from Rick
to Andy, Andy's model was different than
Rick's, uh, on the execution of, you know,
connect the connecting strategy part.
Not much, but enough that, you know, it,
it had to happen in a different way as
far as he was concerned in that aspect.
But still, it boils down to
that same question of, you know.
You know, what are you trying to produce?
And if you don't know what you're
trying to produce, then you can't
figure out throughout the organization
who's running point on it.
Now, the whole point of this, this show
is to say if you're the small group
point person, if you're listening to
this, this show, I would encourage you.
If it's not you find out who it is so that
you can help them, you know, through what
you're doing in, in your group's ministry.
If it is you, I would encourage
you, make sure you get clarity on
it so that you can help your church
achieve what they're trying to do.
Because your pastor generally
brings the vision, you bring the
implementation and that's gonna
be an important piece for you.
Speaker: Well said.
Well, we hope that, uh, this.
Uh, episode encouraged
everybody listening or watching.
We hope it equips you to build
better, healthier, small groups.
And again, we just wanna thank
you for tuning in and, uh,
sharing part of your day with us.
Steve, any other parting words?
Speaker 2: No, just, uh, appreciate
each one of you and if you have any
questions, you know, you can DM any of us.
And we'll, we'll help you out
at the Small Group Network.
If you're not an All Access member, I'd
encourage you to jump into that because
it's one of the best ways to get all
the great materials we have as far as
curriculum and resources and training
and cohorts and conferences, and all the
C words that are out there to help you.
Speaker: And Steve, remind
me what's, what's the link
for that All access cohort?
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks, man.
It's, uh, small group network.com
and uh, you just go in there and you'll
see right from the homepage right away,
you know, the, the plans that we offer.
But, uh, all access gets you.
All access to everything.
Hey, let me make it just
a quick little plug too.
For those of you that listened all
the way to the end, we're actually
getting ready in the fall depending
on when you're listening to this.
In October of 2026, we're launching the
small group network coaching platform.
And again, that'll be free for
all, everyone that's in all access,
but it's a great opportunity for
you to get weekly coaching, uh,
in your small group ministry.
So something for you to
jump onto and be a part of.
Speaker: And click the link in
the show notes below to, uh, get
that link to all access as well.
Thank you everybody for watching, and
until next time, we'll see you later.
Speaker 2: See you later on.
Louisa: Thank you for listening!
And don't forget to subscribe
wherever you listen to podcasts.
If you'd like to go deeper and get
more resources or join the small
group network, just head over
to small group network dot com.
We'll see you next time!