Is Anything Real?

Age is not a cage.

In this episode of Is Anything Real?, Adam W. Barney sits down with Ande Lyons, host of Don’t Be Caged By Your Ageand founder of The New England Podcasters Group, for a conversation about positive aging, ageism, reinvention, visibility, purpose, and what it really means to keep becoming after 65.

Ande’s work challenges one of the quietest and most expensive myths in our culture: After a certain age, your life is supposed to get smaller. You’re supposed to be realistic. Slow down. Step aside. Stop starting new things. Accept that the most expansive chapters are behind you.

But what if that story isn’t reality?  What if it’s just a cage we inherited?

Through Don’t Be Caged By Your Age, Ande spotlights people who are thriving after 65: people who are repurposing lived experience, reimagining retirement, challenging ageist assumptions, and building lives filled with meaning, creativity, connection, wellness, entrepreneurship, and purpose.

This conversation is not about pretending aging is fake. It’s about telling the truth more completely.

Yes, bodies change. Energy changes. Priorities change. Responsibilities change. But purpose does not expire. Visibility does not expire. Creativity does not expire. Contribution does not expire. And your next chapter does not have to be smaller than your last one.

Adam and Ande explore why ageism wastes talent, why “someday” is such a dangerous story, how people can reclaim possibility in later life, and why younger generations need a better relationship with aging too.

This episode is for anyone who has ever wondered: Am I too old to start? Is it too late to reinvent? Do I still have something meaningful to build?

What if the cage isn’t my age...but the story I’ve been told about it?

The big takeaway: Age is not a cage. Start anyway.

Guest: Ande Lyons 
Host of Don’t Be Caged By Your Age: https://www.dontbecagedbyyourage.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andelyons/
Email: ande@dontbecagedbyyourage.com

Also mentioned:
New England Podcasters Group: https://newenglandpodcasters.group/

Host: Adam W. Barney  
Transition Leadership Coach 
Creator of EnergyOS 
Author of Make Your Own Glass Half Full 
Host of Is Anything Real?

Book your 20-min Exploration Call: https://calendly.com/adamwbarney/explorationplugin-20min

Subscribe to Is Anything Real?: https://isanythingreal.adamwbarney.com/

Creators and Guests

Host
Adam W. Barney
Adam W. Barney helps transitioning leaders navigate career and leadership inflection points with clarity and momentum. Author of Make Your Own Glass Half Full and creator of EnergyOS. Based in Boston, fueled by family and music.

What is Is Anything Real??

Is Anything Real? is a podcast about questioning the things we've collectively decided are true.

Each week, executive coach and author Adam W. Barney sits down with founders, executives, authors, creators and other interesting humans to get underneath the assumptions, conventional wisdom and occasionally ridiculous rules we use to make sense of work, leadership, success and our lives.

The conversations are prepared but unscripted. No rehearsed talking points. No pretending there's a neat answer when there isn't one. Just curiosity, honest disagreement, lived experience and the occasional detour that turns out to be more interesting than the question Adam planned to ask.

Because sometimes the most useful question is the simplest one: Is any of this actually real?

New episodes every Wednesday.

Here's a myth

that deserves to be wheeled directly into the ocean:

age makes you less relevant.

That's absolutely not true.

It's not wisdom.

It's cultural laziness with a birthday candle on top.

Because I think the idea that people become less useful,

less creative, less visible,

less interesting,

or less worthy of investment

as they age is not just wrong.

It actually tells people to disappear

right when they may have the clearest view

of what actually matters.

And in a world obsessed with scale,

shiny founders, vanity metrics,

and whatever bro with a pitch deck

discovered community last Tuesday,

we need elders who are not caged by age.

Welcome back to "Is Anything Real?",

the reality-first leadership show

where we test advice,

publish the receipts,

and ship what actually works under pressure.

I'm Adam W. Barney,

transition leadership coach,

author of "Make Your Own Glass Half Full,"

and builder of Energy OS,

where I help leaders rebuild their operating system

when the tools that got them here stop working.

Today's guest is Ande Lyons,

host of

"Don't Be Caged by Your Age,"

founder of the New England Podcasters Group,

longtime podcasting force,

startup ecosystem truth-teller,

a visibility champion,

and one of those people

who somehow makes you feel like

you've been both warmly welcomed

and immediately assigned homework.

You know, Ande's been podcasting since 2012,

which in podcast years,

makes her something between

a pioneer and a lighthouse.

Ande, welcome to "Is Anything Real?".

Oh my gosh, Adam,

thank you so much for having me.

That introduction, listener,

I gotta tell you,

that was pure deliciousness.

And had me laughing out loud from

the cultural laziness

to being a lighthouse.

Come on!

Thank you, thank you, thank you

so much for having me.

I'm so excited, Ande.

Let's start here, though.

You know,

what does it mean to not be caged by your age?

Oh my gosh!

Well, you know, so often

we get indoctrinated

with theseinternalized beliefs

based on culture out in the world,

society, corporations, et cetera,

that say, hey,

the clock is striking midnight on 65.

You're out of here,

as we say here in Boston, right?

Right.

And so, it's time for you

to go out to the pasture.

Well, first of all,

pastures are for horses,

not humans.

On top of which,

generations of talent are being wasted

every day.

Corporations are kicking folks,

after 65,

out of the queue in their companies.

For many reasons.

One is that we have institutional knowledge

that folks younger have not picked up yet.

They don't know how to go through

what we've already gone through,

navigated since, you know,

all the downturns in the economy,

how to onboard new talent or customers

in a really bad economy,

how to weather the storms,

But also, just all the tips and tricks

that we have worked out,

the kinks that we've worked out

over the years.

So, the fact that corporations are making a huge mistake

by kicking us out,

coupled with, you were talking about founders,

younger founders, yeah,

hey tend to hire folks that look like them.

They don't know what they don't know,

and so, you know,

that is something we need to take a look at

and say why.

But on the other hand, in all honesty,

as you age,

you have to do something that we call

managing your energy portfolio.

Because you just don't always have the energy

for doing things

that you might have

when you were 40 or 50 years old.

And so, but at the same time,

because you become a master of discernment,

and time management, and efficiency,

you can get

a good week done in 20, 25 hours.

And so, you know, we the older generation,

the older adults,

the inspired elders,

need to find ways to be 1099s,

be okay with maybe being brought on

not as an employee

but as a consultant

and find different ways.

And I'm always talking about

how can we find pathways

to fuel our passion, purpose, and pocketbook

during these ages, because, Adam ,

If you make it to 65,

the stats show it's highly likely

you're going to make it to 85.

And if you look back over those last 20 years,

and everything you did,

what are you going to do

with the next 20 or 30 years?

How are you going to

continue to bring your spark to the world?

Like Dolly Parton said, she goes,

"I ain't retiring, right? Ever."

So, you know, yeah,

and until your last breath,

you're so important.

Right, right.

And I love how you framed up

through many conversations we've had

how age is a gift.

It's not a disappearing act.

And I felt that very deeply because,

you know I lost my mom

almost 12 years ago to ALS.

She didn't get the chance

to age the way she deserved.

My father just turned 73.

He had a successful career in wealth management,

went through health challenges.

And now he's actually in that identity space

that so many people hit

after a career chapter closes.

And, you know, you immediately said,

"Tell him to read,

Don't Retire, Rewire."

You know, tell him he can be an inspired elder.

And that phrase is some really good stuff here.

What do you think people misunderstand

about the transition

after career identity changes?

You know, life is filled with chapters, right?

You had a great chapter, hopefully,

you know, the first 20 years,

and then you had another chapter,

and you're exploring,

and you're continuing to figure out

who you are.

You're still becoming.

It doesn't end

just because you turn a certain age.

And it's so important

that we continue being curious

and wanting to learn new things.

Oh my gosh,

just getting out of the house

and doing something new.

The studies show that helps your brain.

It's amazing, and of course,

if you're in partnership with someone

doing that together,

is juicy for your relationship, as well.

But get out, explore, be curious,

and one of the things that I reflected on

as I was entering the year 2024,

and I was 67,

I wanted to be in intergenerational groups.

I didn't want to be hanging out

with just my own age group.

But even though we all have a lot in common,

we can laugh,

and sing the same songs

and all the good things.

I really wanted to be part of

folks who were in their 20s,

30s, 40s, and 50s, and 60s.

So I looked around on Meetup and Eventbrite

to see if there were any groups I could join,

and I just wasn't that turned on.

And can tell you this too:

as you age, you become like,

who am I going to spend time with?

Because I don't know how much time I have left,

and I want it to be fun.

And so, one of the things I'd known

since I've been podcasting since 2012,

how much I love hanging out with indie podcasters.

And since, you know,

I have a track record of launching things,

I said I am going to launch a community,

it's going to be intergenerational,

I will highly likely be the oldest person in the room,

and that's okay.

And I launched the New England Podcasters group,

and since May of 2024,

we have met every second Saturday of the month.

And the folks who have come in and delighted

and lit my life up

and each other's lives up

has been so inspiring,

and often what happens is, again,

those indoctrinated ageist beliefs that we take on

that we don't even know, Adam,

are telling us you're too old for that.

Hang out with your own people.

Who do you think you are?

Instead of, and yes, we are shrinking,

we are shrinking with age.

We actually cannot shrink

how we are as we age;

we really have to learn to take center stage.

And be okay with being the oldest person in the room.

Well, needless to say,

I'm not the oldest person in the room

at New England Podcasters Group.

We've had quite a few people

who are much older than I am,

and how cool is that

to have community with folks

of so many different ages?

And I'll tell you,

what that does to help dissolve ageism

is folks see you vibrant, inspired,

passionate on purpose,

and they go, " Wow".

Because I just turned 70,

so they're thinking,

wow, you mean I could be

doing that when I'm 70?

I can't tell you how many folks

in their 40s and 50s have come up to me

since I launched "Don't Be Caged by Your Age"

and said, oh my gosh,

I feel like this anvil on my back

has been lifted.

I thought I had to get everything done

by the time I'm 65,

and here I am raising two kids,

and I've got elder parents,

and I don't know what and I don't know how

I'm ever going to get that done

and now I hear you talking to people

who said, and who say,

"I have never felt more free in my life".

And are doing these remarkable things,

whether they're writing books,

or becoming ninja warriors,

or, you know, doing everything in between.

They are pulling on threads,

and it doesn't mean

that's what you do for the rest of your life.

You might spend a couple of years doing one thing,

and then you find another thing

that fuels your passion, purpose,

and pocketbook, and off you run.

Right, right, right.

Well, and this all circles around

that idea of visibility.

You know, Ande,

I think that's something

that lights both of us up.

You know, if people can't be seen,

they can't be funded, promoted,

supported, you know,

sponsored when the opportunity moves.

And you know, visibility, it's not ego,

it's actually infrastructure.

And that's especially true for women,

people of color,

older founders,

microbusiness owners,

and anyone not already centered by the machine.

So, I want to repeat

that quiet part loudly, right?

Invisibility is not neutral.

Who do you think benefits

when people stay unseen, though?

Who benefits?

Nobody.

And what happens, too, is that again,

those indoctrinated messages

that we don't even know about,

but we take a look at ourselves in the mirror,

and we're like, who is this person?

And we get shoved down our throats

that youth, youth, youth, youth, youth, youth

is what's important.

Well, I'll tell you right now,

anti-aging is the most profitable form of ageism,

and the messaging, especially women get

about how you are not valuable

unless you are young.

You are not worthy

unless you look young.

You are not important

unless you have a younger age.

Screw that message, right?

But again, it's in our heads,

and so what happens is

we're afraid to be visible

because we just assume we're going to be ignored

because that's the message we see all the time.

You're old, you're frail, you're not important.

And I'm saying, folks,

that's our culture here in America,

UK, Canada, Australia.

There are plenty of cultures

that honor the elder,

and are thrilled,

and want you there in their lives.

Well, and, you know,

this is why I love a phrase

that I say pretty often:

"Say a woman's name

when she's not in the room."

I think that applies

to all of those different categories,

and it's not flattery;

it's actually infrastructure.

How do you think about visibility as advocacy, actually?

In what way, as far as advocacy?

Having other people amplify you

when you're not in the room

if you're over 65?

Almost like visibility, you know,

becoming real when it becomes, say,

a pathway to resources, right?

Not just applause, let's say.

This is so important because, you know,

I used to have a monthly pitch event

here in Boston for startup founders,

and I would hear well-meaning advisors and investors

tell founders,

"Pitch your business as if you were telling your grandma."

How harsh was that?

I mean, I would want to jump up

and slap people around

whenever I heard that,

but it's because of the message

that boomers are tech-challenged,

and we're not.

Older adults are tech legends,

and I wrote this post on Reddit.

Boomers are tech legends, not tech-challenged.

You would not believe the stories.

I had 300 plus stories of people

talking about remembering

when they first heard

that there was a handheld calculator.

All the technology that we have not only

had to learn and grow with,

we had to teach.

So in the 70s,

folks were gaming with punch cards on mainframes,

okay?

And people continue to think

that we're stupid.

No.

Either your brain doesn't form quickly

to technology,

or it doesn't.

There's no age involved.

And so, to come back to that

visibility and advocacy.

A lot of people don't want to invite you into the room

because they're going to have the eye roll.

Well, what are they going to know, right?

And that's why we have to keep pushing ourselves out there,

stay viable, stay visible,

and amplify others,

which is what I do on

"Don't Be Caged by Your Age" podcast,

who are thriving,

who have found ways

to continue to contribute to the world.

Here is what happens, though, Adam.

There's a shift around ambition as you age.

You're still passionate.

You're still on purpose.

But you may not be part of, like,

that highly ambitious.

You may be self-directed.

You've got things to do that are important to you,

but that hustle, that deep drive

because you're a certain age

and you want to get some stuff done, right?

That is almost like released, and you're like,

"Whew, don't have that anymore."

And it's a good thing.

So there's all these transitions that we're always

talking about on the podcast

to help others our age know that,

but to help them with the messaging.

So, for example,

you might be going somewhere in a plane

and a flight attendant said, "

Oh, may I help you with that, dear?"

And you're like, "uh, the name's Ande".

Okay?

I'm not three.

Knock it off with the infantilizing me

because of my age.

You know, different things like that.

So, we have to take charge

in showing and amplifying ourselves

and how we be in the world as older adults

to help change the narrative.

Mm.

Well, the other piece of this, you know,

I talked about this earlier,

you've been podcasting for quite some time,

since 2012.

You know, I launched this podcast "Is Anything Real?"

just over a year ago

after people told me for years

I should start a podcast.

You know, you also mentioned something to me

that I've felt deeply;

people rarely say no to a podcast interview.

That's magical, though.

But, you know,

what do you think newer podcasters miss

when they only think about downloads?

Oh my gosh,

it's never about the numbers.

It's always about impact.

It's always about reach.

So you may have a podcast,

and you're going to go,

and see that you got 20 downloads,

50 downloads,

or woohoo, 100.

Okay, stop it with this

10,000 downloads per episode stuff

you hear all the time.

Enough with that.

You go into a room with 50 people

and look around.

I go into a room of 20 to 30 people

every month

with the New England Podcasters Group.

That's a lot of people whose eyeballs are on you.

Right?

And here you are as a podcast host,

you have an ability

to do something that's so unique,

especially during today in the AI world.

You are a human voice going into a human ear.

How wonderful is that?

Into human eyeballs,

if they're watching you.

So first of all, you've got your podcast interview, like,

Adam and I are having right here,

but then Adam's going to do a few video clips,

or he's going to do some posts.

He's going to share some things.

So that's going to go out into the world

based on the conversation we have.

Think about that total reach that you have,

not just your downloads.

Think about the opportunity you get

to have a conversation with

someone you never would have ever met

or had the conversation with.

And I'm always saying to folks,

if you're entering a new industry,

let's say you decided to become a consultant,

or a coach,

or something new in a different industry.

Launch a podcast right away

and interview all the experts in that industry,

you know, prepare you to be a better,

whatever it is that you're doing.

But also, they would never respond to an email,

or, as we used to say,

pick up the phone, answer the phone,

if you didn't have a podcast,

because if either they know they need to get out

and be visible,

or they've got a PR team

or a communications team

that's telling them

"be on that podcast".

Every time you're out there,

it amplifies the work we're doing.

So they are more approachable and responsive

when you have a podcast,

and you're going to learn so much from that person

and be curious,

and ask all your delicious questions.

Well, that's where podcasting gets real, I think,

when it stops being thought of

as just content extraction, maybe,

and becomes relationship infrastructure,

as well, Ande.

You know, I was just at Podcast Movement

and that's what we were talking about.

It isn't so much content

as it is about community and connection.

And collaboration.

A lot of seeds right there.

It really is this ability to build a relationship,

whether it's with your guest,

with your listener,

with the community at large,

how they view you.

So when I launched "Don't Be Caged by Your Age"

in March of 2024,

I wasn't in the pro-aging world.

In fact, I was I had left the startup ecosystem.

That's what all the algorithms knew me as.

Founder, mentor, global mentor, startup life,

all of those things.

And I had to shift.

And only took me nine months

to then be recognized

as a thought leader in the pro-aging space.

And how did I know that I was recognized?

Because one of the top five pro-aging thought leaders,

Janine Vanderberg,

when she opened up her

Bluesky recommendation header,

I was in the five that she recommended

as a thought leader in pro-aging,

and nobody was more surprised than I was.

I hadn't even interviewed her yet.

Wow.

So, you know,

the perception of you as a podcast host

in the professional world.

I mean, uou're gonna say to your friends and family,

"Yeah, I host a podcast,"

and they're gonna be like,

"Isn't that nice?"

Right, "that's so sweet".

They don't have a clue.

But those in the professional world,

there's a veneer,

there's a certain credibility,

there's a certain cachet,

whatever that comes with,

oh, podcast host.

Okay.

And then you hang out with podcasters,

and then they definitely know all the hard work,

and effort, and creativity

that goes into producing a wonderful podcast.

That's beautiful.

Ande, I want to move this into

one move our listeners can run this week.

And you know,

inspired by our conversation here,

I want to call it actually

"The Uncaged Contribution Audit".

And I would say it's for founders,

podcasters, microbusiness owners,

people in transition,

or anyone who just

quietly started to believe

there's a culture expiration date,

but that's just nonsense, right?

So, and it's four simple questions.

You know, first being:

where have I let age define

the size of my contribution?

The second:

whose name can I say in a room they're not in?

The third being:

what small room could I build

that would make people feel less alone?

And then finally:

what micro-mighty move can I make this week?

Is it, you know, one offer,

one story, one relationship.

Ande, what would you add,

or how would you make that list

be even more powerful

for anyone starting today?

If, whatever age you are,

find someone older than you,

and go hang out with them.

Go have coffee,

have a conversation,

a video chat,

whatever.

Find out some gems that they have.

You're going to be blown away

by the insights and inspiration they will provide you,

and you're going to love

how curious they are about you,

and how they're going to ask questions

that are thoughtful and caring and interested,

as well as being interesting.

Yeah, I love that,

and that contribution gets real

when we stop asking whether we're still relevant

and really start asking where the lived wisdom we have

is needed next.

Absolutely, our lived experiences are very valuable.

And again, our institutional knowledge,

that is the 40 or 50 decades

that we've been through the fires of life,

that we know.

And elders can really help you,

those in your 20s and 30s and 40s,

if you're going through something tough,

like Adam did with his mom, okay?

Not many people his age

will have been faced with

such a devastating experience,

but someone older will definitely have

and can hold your hand,

and give you the wisdom and empathy you need

as you navigate that difficult time.

Yeah, all right.

You know, Ande,

you know how we end here;

after all of this,

but especially the myth

that age makes you less relevant,

is anything real?

Life is so real,

and being able to age is a gift

and a privilege,

and we must not waste it.

We must get off couches,

and continue to be out in the world,

and be curious, and explore,

and pull on threads,

and find out ways

that we can still be relevant

and contribute

our own deliciousness to the world.

We are all delicious,

and what feels real to me is contribution,

right?

It's not about performance.

It's not scaling for scale's sake.

You know it's the rooms we build,

maybe the names we say.

The wisdom we share,

the communities that get strengthened,

and that refusal to disappear

just because culture got lazy about imagination, right?

Ande,

where can folks find you,

listen to "Don't Be Caged by Your Age",

and find the New England Podcasters Group?

You can find me Ande

A N D E

Lyons

L Y O N S

all over social media.

But really, connect with me on LinkedIn.

Please visit

dontbecagedbyyourage.com

to catch all the episodes,

or find one that really resonates for you.

And please, if you're interested in podcasting,

please come join us at

newenglandpodcasters.group.

You can join us physically or virtually.

We have a monthly meetup.

I have a free ticket for you.

Just ping me, and I'll get it to you.

It's a wonderful way

to be in community with creatives

who are making an impact.

Fantastic,

and I'm a proud member

of the New England Podcasters Group.

I will mention that here, but you know,

for our listeners, stop treating age like a cage.

You know, start treating visibility like vanity.

You know, and if you're alive,

there is still something to build.

Share, teach, question, amplify, or repair.

Could be through a podcast.

It could be just mentoring someone younger.

Or maybe it's finally admitting

the next chapter is not a downgrade;

it's simply a redesign.

So, you know, if this hits,

send it to a founder,

podcaster, a woman building visibility,

an inspired elder,

or anyone who just needs to remember

they're not finished

just because the culture ran out of imagination.

And if you're navigating a leadership transition,

there's also a 20-minute foundational call

with me linked in the show notes below.

But Ande, thank you for your generosity,

your advocacy,

those podcasting receipts,

the community building,

and that reminder

that the best rooms are often built

by people who got tired of waiting for someone else

to open the door.

Thank you so much for having me, Adam.

I love your podcast.

I love your emails, as you know,

and I just love how you do you in the world.

Thank you for inviting me to be on your podcast.

Thank you, Ande.

It was such a pleasure.

You know, listeners,

until next time,

stay grounded,

stay human,

and keep questioning the noise.