Hydrogen carriers

Hydrogen can be bound to various other components, in order to be used in a different way or transported with more ease. These are called hydrogen carriers. But which ones are there, how do we produce them? And what more can we use them for? To find out, Celwin speaks to Marthe Fruytier (Port of Rotterdam Authority) and Feikje Wittermans (Vopak).

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Celwin Frenzen: 00:05

Welcome to Hello Hydrogen. A podcast series by the Port of Rotterdam Authority about the world of Hydrogen which is coming to life in Rotterdam. In this 3rd episode, we will discover all there is to know about Hydrogen carriers. Hydrogen itself is a very volatile gas, which also takes up a lot of volume. So, in order to transport it, the industry is looking at various Hydrogen carriers.

Celwin Frenzen: 00:38

To find out which ones, I'm talking to Marthe Freitier of the Port of Rotterdam Authority and Feike Wittermans from Vopak. We're starting with Marte Freitier from the Port Authority. She works for the department, new business development and portfolio, which is working on the energy transition in the port. Marja herself works on the analytical side of the energy transition. To get started, I ask her which hydrogen carriers there are.

Marthe Fruytier: 01:05

There are many hydrogen carriers we see currently. The main ones we see are ammonia, liquid organic hydrogen carriers, and liquid hydrogen.

Celwin Frenzen: 01:16

Mhmm.

Marthe Fruytier: 01:18

Another one, that we see is green methanol, but that's not really a hydrogen carrier because you don't get the hydrogen off it again, but you use the, methanol directly.

Celwin Frenzen: 01:30

Okay. And

Marthe Fruytier: 01:31

we also see that a little bit for ammonia. So direct use of the of the ammonia and not only as a carrier fighter, Jim.

Celwin Frenzen: 01:37

Okay. And are those the main carriers Rotterdam is focusing on for the for the future?

Marthe Fruytier: 01:43

Currently, we see the most developments from those carriers. We also focus on auto ones when we we see, industries, diving into that one. But currently, we see most developments within OIT, for those carriers that I just mentioned.

Celwin Frenzen: 01:58

Yeah.

Marthe Fruytier: 01:58

And mainly, ammonia is the one that we see, the most developments in currently, because it is already transported currently, today and used today in the industry. So we see that it makes it easier to kick off with ammonia.

Celwin Frenzen: 02:14

Yeah.

Marthe Fruytier: 02:15

But we see also other carriers around.

Celwin Frenzen: 02:17

Alright. So, diving into the the carriers, let's start with ammonia because that's the main carrier, being focused on right now. How does ammonia work? Because you said it's a hydrogen carrier. So what is it linked to?

Marthe Fruytier: 02:31

Yeah. Ammonia is, is produced with the Haber Bosch sensors, and what you do then is that you combine the hydrogen to nitrogen with its, synthesis process. So and it's it's actually a chemical, currently already used in the chemical industries, and you can get the hydrogen back when you crack it. So that's reversed, process of the Yeah. Habibosh.

Celwin Frenzen: 02:56

You mentioned getting the hydrogen back out is called cracking. How does cracking work? Do you know that?

Marthe Fruytier: 03:01

Yeah. Then you, put a lot high temperature and high pressure on the, ammonia, and then the bonds break between the, nitrogen and the hydrogen so you can split it again.

Celwin Frenzen: 03:12

Yeah. And and you said, ammonia is already being used for quite some time. How do we transport ammonia?

Marthe Fruytier: 03:20

We transport ammonia overseas in, specific, ammonia carriers, and that that are chemical carriers that are designed for the transport of bulk chemicals. So they have a specific design. Mhmm. But what you also see is not only that it's transported for long distance overseas, but also by pipeline.

Celwin Frenzen: 03:41

Yeah.

Marthe Fruytier: 03:41

But it's only in, like areas where there is a high ammonia demand currently. So in the United States, there are some, ammonia pipelines, for example. You can also transport it by barge or by, train. So currently, in the Porto Vortolone, we already receive ammonia.

Celwin Frenzen: 03:58

Yeah.

Marthe Fruytier: 03:58

And then it's, imported with a ammonia carrier and then stored over here and then exported again with a barge.

Celwin Frenzen: 04:05

Alright. So for the future in Rotterdam, we're mainly looking at, cracking up the the the important, perhaps, production

Marthe Fruytier: 04:12

of the Malia. Exactly. Yeah. We already so the the existing terminal that we have in the Port of Rotterdam is already, yeah, developing plants to expand it further. And we see that in many more, developments.

Celwin Frenzen: 04:24

Okay. And what can we use ammonia for? Because you said it's not just used for hydrogen, to take it out, but also for just using ammonia.

Marthe Fruytier: 04:32

Yes. Yeah. Like, you so currently, the ammonia is used in the chemical sector, so to produce fertilizer, for example, but it can also be used for, refrigerations, but also, like, it's also feedstock for the chemical industry.

Celwin Frenzen: 04:46

Okay.

Marthe Fruytier: 04:47

When it's used as a hydrogen carrier in the future, it's for energy use, so as an energy carrier, actually.

Celwin Frenzen: 04:55

Okay.

Marthe Fruytier: 04:56

But it's also so and when you use it as hydrogen, it's also in refinery industry. But, another purpose that we see is for, as a transport fuel. So for shipping, for example, ammonia can also be used.

Celwin Frenzen: 05:08

Alright. Liquid hydrogen. I've, I've heard some about it in the past because, to get it to a liquid state, you have to cool it down really, really much. Yeah. Can you tell us how much?

Marthe Fruytier: 05:22

Minus, 200 53 degrees. So that's fair.

Celwin Frenzen: 05:25

That's quite a lot

Celwin Frenzen: 05:26

if I'm not mistaken, liquid natural gas is around 160 negative. Right?

Marthe Fruytier: 05:33

Yeah.

Celwin Frenzen: 05:33

But is it then then still being looked at for, yeah, for for use in the future?

Marthe Fruytier: 05:39

It is a very energy intensive process, but we see it also has its benefits because when you, bring it to the port as liquid, it doesn't require a very energy intensive process to get the hydrogen back again. So cracking is an energy intensive process, and with liquid hydrogen, you just have to warm it up, but that's

Celwin Frenzen: 06:00

because it

Marthe Fruytier: 06:01

can go by itself, doesn't need energy to do that. So that's why also, other, parties are looking into, like, the benefits of liquid hydrogen and also how they can make it it's currently expensive because of those energy intensive, processes you need. So they are looking how to make it, yeah, more, efficient to do that.

Celwin Frenzen: 06:25

I can imagine. And, the last one you mentioned, green methanol, because you can you you said you can't use it as hydrogen. You have to use it as methanol. Yes. But what what is the hydrogen bound to to become methanol?

Marthe Fruytier: 06:37

So you when you produce biomethanol, you have biomass, and you classify that biomass, and then with a process called methanol synthesis, you bind the hydrogen to the carbon oxide, if I say correctly. So then you form, biomethanol. Alright.

Celwin Frenzen: 06:59

Yeah. So in in in what way can we use the methanol?

Marthe Fruytier: 07:03

You can use it as a transport fuel as well. But and also, you can also blend it with existing fuels to decrease already your emissions and it's very easy to because you can use it then in the existing engines.

Celwin Frenzen: 07:18

Okay.

Marthe Fruytier: 07:19

But it's also used in the chemical sector as a feedstock, just like ammonia.

Celwin Frenzen: 07:22

Alright. Alright. But if you then use you said you bind it to carbon. If you then use it, does that carbon become free again? Or

Marthe Fruytier: 07:31

Yeah. But because it's, biomass, so it it's it's, it's like green carbon.

Celwin Frenzen: 07:38

So it's

Marthe Fruytier: 07:39

it's yeah. It's in in it.

Celwin Frenzen: 07:40

So it's considered green carbon?

Marthe Fruytier: 07:41

Exactly. Yeah. It's like, you you have a full circle. So it Awesome. Is it reused again

Celwin Frenzen: 07:46

Yeah.

Marthe Fruytier: 07:47

As when you used biomass.

Celwin Frenzen: 07:54

So we've covered Ammonia, Liquid Hydrogen and Green Methanol. But there is one missing as mentioned by Marte earlier on. The Liquid Organic Hydrogen Carrier or LOHC. To find out more about this carrier, I'm talking to Feike Wittermans from Vopak, who are running a pilot with this carrier. To start off, I ask about Vopak's view on hydrogen carriers in general.

Feikje Wittermans: 08:17

Within Vopak, we are working on all 3 of the carriers, ammonia, liquid hydrogen, as well as the LOAC technologies. FOPAC already has a track record in safely storing, ammonia in 6 locations in the world already for more than 20 years. So we feel quite confident in storage and handling of ammonia as well. Yeah. LOHC is actually new to us, but it looks quite a lot of, a lot like diesel.

Feikje Wittermans: 08:51

Also with, so it's kind of a heating oil. And that's, we we have, we are experienced in, in handling, those stuff. Alright. There's also another carrier, Tolowin, and, we also have experience in, storage and handling of Tolowin. With regard to liquid hydrogen, we have, of course, the, experience with LNG at the gate terminal and some other terminals around the world.

Feikje Wittermans: 09:19

So cryogenic storage is known to us, but this is of course much colder than natural gas.

Celwin Frenzen: 09:26

Yeah, I can see. And we're going to focus on the LOH, you know, the liquid organic hydrogen carrier. Yeah. Can you tell us a bit more about

Feikje Wittermans: 09:35

it? Yeah, it's, what we are, currently, developing, some projects, on the LOAC, technology, which is from, German, a German, scale up company. It's called, Hydrogenias And, Hydrogenius developed, a technology based on, benzyl toluene, which is actually a k three, project product. It's a little bit yeah. It's a heating oil.

Feikje Wittermans: 10:08

We expect that storage is not much different from diesel storage, for instance.

Celwin Frenzen: 10:12

Mhmm.

Feikje Wittermans: 10:12

So we expect to be able to use quite a lot of our current infrastructure

Celwin Frenzen: 10:18

Okay.

Feikje Wittermans: 10:19

And assets, for storage of LOAD.

Celwin Frenzen: 10:22

Okay. So and the the if you can use the current infrastructure, that's both both for transport and storage of it?

Feikje Wittermans: 10:30

Yes. Yeah, you can, for the, the, benzil towing, we expect a conventional, shipping, vessels, trucks, tanks, and pipelines.

Celwin Frenzen: 10:42

Okay. And, then when you have the, the, the LOE, how do you get the hydrogen out of it?

Feikje Wittermans: 10:50

You have to heat it, currently until 300 degrees Celsius. And then the hydrogen is released from the carrier.

Celwin Frenzen: 10:58

Okay. And then you say current what, what is it going to be lower perhaps?

Feikje Wittermans: 11:04

Yeah, it's, usually you use the hydrogen in places where you don't have enough, energy Mhmm.

Celwin Frenzen: 11:10

In

Feikje Wittermans: 11:10

the demand centers. So it's, we're trying to, the, the, our technology partner, Hydrogenius, is working on methods, to decrease the temperature to release the hydrogen from the, Benzyl Tyruene to, yeah, 200 degrees and maybe 200 degrees Celsius would be ideal.

Celwin Frenzen: 11:33

Yeah. And and the the heat use is this is this all going to be generated or maybe can you use some residual heat?

Feikje Wittermans: 11:41

Yeah. We, we are targeting residual heat.

Celwin Frenzen: 11:45

Okay.

Feikje Wittermans: 11:46

Because that's the, yeah it's circular and and and that's the best way to deal with it you could for instance also use this technology at for instance glass industry where there's a lot of excess heat available at the at the right temperature to get the hydrogen out.

Celwin Frenzen: 12:07

Okay. And then, if we look at the hydrogen when it's separate, what is going to happen to it? Do you already know who's going to use it

Feikje Wittermans: 12:16

or? Not yet. For the current project, we know the potential uses and the potential use. But, this hydrogen which comes out from this carrier is quite pure. It's, say the 99.995 percent of, purity.

Celwin Frenzen: 12:36

Mhmm.

Feikje Wittermans: 12:37

So it doesn't need a big step anymore to further purify it, to be, to be able to use it in fuel cells. So that's mobility is is is one way, but it could also be used for, yeah, for companies that use now, natural gas. I had to blend it in or to, yeah, to use it to decarbonize their business.

Celwin Frenzen: 13:01

Yeah. Alright. Alright. Looking at the liquid organic hydrogen carrier, you said the hydrogen is basically stuck to another molecule. Can you throw that molecule away once hydrogen is separated or can you reuse it?

Feikje Wittermans: 13:15

No, you reuse it. You keep it in the system. So, once the hydrogen is, dehydrated, 1, the LOHC, is dehydrogenated. Mhmm. We send it back to the to a plant where the hydrogen is bound again to the same carrier.

Feikje Wittermans: 13:32

So it stays in the system. So we don't, consume the LOAC, but we use it as a carrier.

Celwin Frenzen: 13:41

Okay.

Feikje Wittermans: 13:41

As kind of package.

Celwin Frenzen: 13:43

Yeah. I see. I see. And where is it going for this pilot? Where is it going to come from?

Feikje Wittermans: 13:50

This pilot comes from, for the pilot of 1 and a half ton per day. The hydrogen comes from, Dormagen in, the, North Rhine Westfalen. It's a byproduct, from a, from a plant. And so that's is is actually bound in dormagen to the larger molecule to the benzyl toluene and then, it's coming by truck to Rotterdam and then, is trucked back to Darmag and to fill it again.

Celwin Frenzen: 14:25

And when the pilot has started, how long will it run?

Feikje Wittermans: 14:29

We don't know yet how long. It could be 3 to 5 years. And then, hopefully, we are already a phase further in the upscaling, to 12 tons per day.

Celwin Frenzen: 14:41

Yeah. Alright. And last question. How do you look at the future of LOA G? How much tonnage are you going to handle or maybe you could handle in the future, you think?

Feikje Wittermans: 14:52

Now we could handle a lot, but we, yeah we need to scale up the technology and mainly the release technology that's the most difficult one scale up but we are in the planning of starting a feasibility study together with the port of Rotterdam and an American big oil company to see how we can actually design a big chain and also to find out can we use excess heat where does it come from what is the footprint of the plant we need here but we are thinking now of 200 to 500 tons per day of hydrogen

Celwin Frenzen: 15:34

We're back with Marte from the Port Authority. We know now about 4 different carriers. Ammonia, liquid hydrogen, green methanol, and the liquid organic hydrogen carrier. I'm wondering, which carrier does Martin think will become the main hydrogen carrier?

Marthe Fruytier: 15:49

It's a very good question. I think I don't think it's one that's gonna be the hydrogen carrier. I think it's, it depends, first of all, on technology and applications, but also what you currently see with the energy mix is that there's not one source of energy. There are multiple of them, and it also changes on economical and technical and environmental factors.

Celwin Frenzen: 16:15

Yeah.

Marthe Fruytier: 16:15

And I think that also will be the case with different, yeah, different cases.

Celwin Frenzen: 16:21

Yeah. Okay. And the hydrogen coming in, is it all because, for use here in Rotterdam? Or is it also going to be transported towards the hinterland or

Marthe Fruytier: 16:30

No. I think mainly we will export it again to the hinterlands. So currently, we we transport 13% of the European energy demands and we, so 2 third of what is currently going through the port is exported again. Okay. And I think that will be the same for hydrogen.

Celwin Frenzen: 16:51

In the next head of hydrogen.

Martijn Coopman: 16:53

In 2025, I am absolutely convinced momentum will pick back up again, and we're definitely gonna see this transition through.

Celwin Frenzen: 17:05

Thank you for listening to Hello Hydrogen. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the podcast wherever you find your podcasts. For more information on this podcast or hydrogen in the Port of Rotterdam, take a look at portofrotterdam.com/hydrogen.