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Pastor Matt Brown answers questions from Luke 11 and 12, including whether or not God knows everything, what Jesus says is unforgiveable and why you should watch out for killer whales.
Real faith. Real life. Hosted by Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown of Sandals Church, The Debrief Podcast goes beyond Sunday conversations—diving into the questions, stories, and struggles that shape who we are. Thoughtful. Honest. Unfiltered.
Let's have a beatbox off. Hold
Justin Pardee:on. No. No.
Matt Brown:Do I work with boys? What? I got big lips. Well,
Justin Pardee:hey, everybody and welcome to The Debrief, a weekly q and a podcast from your friends here at Sandals Church. I am Jessen Pardee. I'll be your auditory tour guide on this journey to wisdom from the scriptures.
Stephanie Schaefer:This is Stephanie Heaney. I'll probably be riding somewhere in the backseat trying to change the music.
Matt Brown:I love backseat drivers.
Justin Pardee:And that is of course the incomparable pastor Matt Brown. How you doing, Good.
Matt Brown:Welcome back from Chicago. I was in Idaho. It's good to
Justin Pardee:be Welcome welcome back to you from
Stephanie Schaefer:I held down the fort guys. Don't worry.
Justin Pardee:Yeah. Good job.
Matt Brown:Thank you
Justin Pardee:very much. Good job keeping California alive.
Stephanie Schaefer:Do what I can.
Justin Pardee:We could vote for you. We could put you on a ballot initiative. Stephanie Keane for political office or something something like that. Hey, so we are up to 97 reviews. I'm super excited because I'm hoping by the time Easter weekend comes around, we will have crossed into 100 reviews.
Justin Pardee:Still, all five stars, guys. Wow. We're on a streak here. Yeah. So here's here's two.
Justin Pardee:This one is from one sweet mullet.
Matt Brown:That is the greatest name ever.
Justin Pardee:All one word, no spaces, dude. It's seriously Yes, exactly. It's seriously my new favorite podcast and I think we can probably trust him based on his fine Well, he's seriously
Stephanie Schaefer:my new favorite username.
Justin Pardee:So Indeed. There you go. And then we got one from Jeff Woolley, it's one of my favorite ways to learn because people submit great questions, that's you the listeners. And Matt spits theological fire all over the place.
Matt Brown:I do spit well.
Stephanie Schaefer:In a good way.
Justin Pardee:In a good way.
Matt Brown:Oh, okay.
Justin Pardee:I don't know what don't Is there a bad way to spit theological fire?
Matt Brown:Yeah. That's why people don't sit on the front row at church because a lot of spits coming.
Justin Pardee:That's like you swing by Mexican food before you go. Well, alright. We got some q and a to jump into. So we've got some questions from Luke chapter 11, Luke chapter 12 that we'll go with and you actually were preaching from Luke chapter 11. We talked a whole bunch about prayer and Travis, who is the leader of a group sent in a question and here it is.
Justin Pardee:God is omniscient, so he knows all things that are, were and are to come. So thank you Travis by the way for defining the term omniscient in the question itself. God is omniscient, so he knows all things that are, were and are to come. So when we pray, can we change God's will or is God simply changing our hearts? Sometimes it feels as if God already has a plan and knows the outcome.
Justin Pardee:If that's the case. What's the point of prayer?
Matt Brown:Yeah. So there's there's two questions that he's asking. One is a question about, you know, is is there a real reason that we're praying? And two, you know, there's a question about the omniscience of God. So let's deal with the the prayer portion first, and remind me to come back to the the second about omniscience, Stephanie.
Justin Pardee:You've got it.
Matt Brown:So, number one, you know, why should we pray? Does God already know what we're going to pray before we ask? Yes, because God knows us better than we know ourselves. Mhmm. That's why David says this prayer, he in, I believe it's Psalms fifty one six, he says, you know, Lord reveal the truth in me in my inner places, in my inner sanctuary.
Matt Brown:He actually calls it my in my secret heart. There are things that God knows about us that we don't know about ourselves. And so, part of the process of prayer is learning to understand what we want. And so, use the example of when I was praying for my marriage, and I talked about God changed Tammy, changed Tammy, and then I switched to God changed me, or changed our marriage, our marriage, and then I switched ultimately to God changed me, and then that's what fixed my marriage. Mhmm.
Matt Brown:Is, you know, God God ultimately knows what I need before I even know what I need. But what he wants to teach me through the process of prayer is, I need to discover what it is that I need so that he can give me my daily bread. And so, yes, we need to learn to pray because, you know, prayer primarily changes us, not God.
Justin Pardee:Mhmm.
Matt Brown:However, I think that, you know, he has a slight misunderstanding of omniscience. And so, the doctrine of omniscience is basically Christians trying to brag about, you know, the mind of God. How smart is God? God is all knowing. He knows everything.
Matt Brown:And so we gotta be careful when we we talk about God, and I use this illustration to describe God. You know, when my son was three years old or four years old, if you asked your dad, how tall is your dad? Well, would raise his hand as high as he possibly can, my dad's this tall, but the reality is he just cut me in half. Mhmm. And so, when we say God is omniscient, I I understand what theologians are trying to say is there's there's nothing that is outside of God's ability to know, but what that turned into is we've made God a slave to knowledge, which I I do not hold.
Matt Brown:What I would say is God knows what he wants to know, and God can choose to not know what he doesn't want to know. For example, Jesus Christ says he does not know the final end.
Justin Pardee:Mhmm.
Matt Brown:I believe that he freely chose to not know that, and so God has an ability that we don't have, and that is to withhold information from himself. And so, you know, there's a lot of theologians that would lose their minds at what I'm saying, because they feel like somehow I'm degrading God, and that's not what I'm doing at all. What I'm actually saying is God's omniscience is so powerful and so amazing, and yet at some at the same time, he knows all, and yet is not a prisoner to knowledge, and he can in some way experience life with us in relationship. And so I think that there are legitimate circumstances where the people of God pray, and God changes his mind. Moses pleads repeatedly before God, and the Bible actually says, and God changed his mind.
Matt Brown:Mhmm. He he changed what he was going to do. And so one of the problems is is is, you know, when Christians get into the sovereignty of God, we look at God's will and say, well, God's will will prevail no matter what we do. And so what I would say is, yeah, God has a will, and so what does that mean? So let's take World War two for example, it was the will of the American people to defeat the Nazis.
Matt Brown:That was going to happen no matter what. America was stronger, we were more powerful, we had more weapons, you know, ultimately Germany and Japan didn't have a chance, and they actually knew that. Mhmm. Because America's army was so massive. However, there are adjustments that are made within the context of destroying Nazi Germany.
Matt Brown:And so I think that God, within the context of His sovereign will, you know, saving all those who will believe in Jesus Christ, ultimately becoming, you know, the victor in battle, right? So the outcome is fixed. But how that outcome happens, I believe that there's maneuverability in there. Right. And we pray in what we do, I believe it matters.
Justin Pardee:Mhmm.
Matt Brown:If I don't share the gospel with my friends, they may not know Jesus, that's a real consequence for my disobedience. Mhmm. And so we gotta be careful that we don't, you know, kind of become fatalist, right? Well, it's already all written out, and I have no part to play, and I have, you know, nothing to do in this. And so what I would say is, yes, God can absolutely change his mind.
Matt Brown:And and when you look at scripture in the entirety, he seems to actually invite us to ask him to do that, like Abraham begging for, you know, the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, you know, is there 10 righteous, is there five righteous, 50 righteous, right? And God seems to be genuinely engaged in that conversation. And so we can pray and ask God to do things. And even when God says, I'm going to destroy you, when he says, I'm going to destroy Jerusalem, all the way to the end. I mean, Jeremiah prophesies in Jeremiah twenty nine eleven, I know the plans I have for you, plans to prosper you, plans to give you a future and a hope.
Matt Brown:What God is saying is, this didn't have to happen.
Justin Pardee:Mhmm.
Matt Brown:Because what I want for you is to bless you, to give you a future, and to give you hope. However, you were given every opportunity to repent and turn, and you did not. And I believe those were legitimate opportunities, and I mean, think about the book of Jonah. Why doesn't Jonah want to preach to Nineveh? Because he says, I know you are merciful God.
Matt Brown:Mhmm. I know that you will relent your judgment upon these people if they repent of their sins. And what's amazing is, right, the pagan, and and I'll talk about what that word means in a second, you know, the pagan Ninevites, they repent, and God blesses Nineveh, and it becomes an amazing city. So you're gonna ask me what does pagan mean?
Justin Pardee:Yeah. Let's do pagan.
Matt Brown:Yeah. Pagan means they don't have a relationship with God. So pagan means the Gentile world, people that don't know the Jewish God, the God of Abraham, God of Isaac, God of Jacob, you know, Jesus, they they don't know him, and so they behave in ways that, you know, just are are not God like, are not Christ like. And so it's amazing so many times in scripture, the people who don't know God are quicker to respond to God's offer of repentance than those who supposedly are followers of God. So yes, yes, pray pray pray pray pray, because you can change God's mind in something, and and he has he is interacting with us, you know, in this process.
Matt Brown:And so, you know, are are you going to change God's ultimate will? No. Mhmm. You know, God's ultimate will is that every knee will bow, every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, Jesus Christ is the anointed one, and everyone will be held accountable for what they do with him. And so, you know, and I I guess said, people are gonna lose their minds, but you have to be so careful with theology because right, like my son, my dad's this big, and what I'm doing is I'm holding my hand up as high as I can, it still falls short of who I am, and I'm a man.
Matt Brown:God's not a man, God's God. Right. And so, you know, God can know whatever he wants to know. And and what what I believe is, is God can freely, like Jesus does, choose to not know. And it's interesting, right?
Matt Brown:The Bible says when we confess our sins, God says they're actually as far as the East is from the West. What does that mean? They don't exist. Mhmm. They've not just been absolved, but they're gone.
Justin Pardee:Right.
Matt Brown:Ain't that amazing? Mhmm. We we can't do that. Like, I can forgive you, but I can't forget what you
Justin Pardee:did. Right.
Matt Brown:But God seems to have the ability to do that. It's it's incredible. Mhmm.
Stephanie Schaefer:So Our next question is from Brie in Shannon's group, and it's about based on Luke eleven thirty three. No one lights a lamp and then hides it or puts it under a basket. Instead, a lamp is placed on a stand where its light can be seen by all who enter the house. And Brie asks, if you've done something in your past and confessed it to God, but have not shared or confessed it with others, would that be considered still living in darkness? How do you determine what should be solely confessed to God, and what you should confess to God, and the person wronged, or another person like
Matt Brown:Yeah. Would encourage you always to confess to someone. It doesn't matter what it is. Now, you need to be very careful and cautious. You know, for example, if there's something, like, let's say that you're married that's in the past, you need to use great great counsel and wisdom because you don't wanna trip up your spouse's sin.
Matt Brown:And so what I would do is I'd go to a pastor or counselor, somebody that I trust, someone that can hold confidentiality. Because when people confess to me, I don't share it with anyone. Right? I hear their confession, you know, unless of course, you know, I feel like the holy spirit's saying, okay, we need to go to your spouse, we need to talk to your best friend about this. But what they need to do is to experience healing is they need to share that with someone, because the reality is just sharing with God is not enough.
Matt Brown:James five sixteen says, confess your sins one to another so that you may be whole and healed. And that's what we wanna experience in our lives. And so here's what I would say is, if there's something that you feel like you might need to confess, and I've done this, man. I mean, there were things that I did in college that like literally fifteen years later, I'd ask God forgiveness, and I went to a friend of mine that's a pastor, I said, I just need to share these things with you. And I confessed him, and and I asked him, I said, do you think I need to go back and talk with these people?
Matt Brown:He's like, nope. You're good. Move on. Be free. And so, you know, if you don't feel free of something, I would absolutely 100% confess it, because you I don't think you've experienced healing yet.
Matt Brown:And so again, we don't tell everyone everything, that's stupid, but we do need to confess to wise Christians who love God and love us, and who are trustworthy with information. You know, people are always so worried, you know, when they when they tell me things, ten years they'll see me years later, yeah, you remember I shared them? I'm like, I don't remember. Because I don't hold it. I don't hold onto it, and I'm not saving that for later to zing somebody.
Matt Brown:I am sitting in the place of Christ, I'm hearing the confession, and I'm reminding them that they're forgiven. And that's what I tell people, you are forgiven. You know, first John one nine says, we're forgiven when we confess to God. James five sixteen says, we're healed of that sin, or at least the process of healing can begin when I confess that to someone else. And so, you know, there are some situations where you need you may need to go back and make it right with people that you've wounded.
Matt Brown:Like one of the things I think Christians do is, you know, they've they've heard a bunch of people, you know, I did this for example with my girlfriend before Tammy. So my girlfriend before, you know, Tammy, we were in a moral relationship, we weren't living for Christ, and when the whole Facebook thing started up, I saw her on Facebook, and I told my wife, I said, I need to ask her for forgiveness, because I I was not an example of who Jesus is. So I got my wife's permission, right, because I'm talking with an old girlfriend Right. Which is a little weird thing, and I just sent a note and said, hey, I just wanna ask for your forgiveness. Because what I didn't want her to think is, is that I was running around being a pastor, acting like I was perfect, and I never made mistakes.
Justin Pardee:Right.
Matt Brown:And so so many Christians, you know, I see, they move on like those mistakes and those wounds never happened. And so what I wanted to do is I wanted to release my ex girlfriend from the sin that I committed against her, and the pain that I caused in her life, so that she could pursue Christ. I'm not responsible for whether or not she chooses Christ, but what I am responsible is, is to be a Christian and seek forgiveness, and say, hey, look, blew And what was amazing is she sent me a note back, she's like, oh yeah, don't worry about it, we're young stupid, you know, go on with your life. And and we've never chatted again.
Justin Pardee:Mhmm.
Matt Brown:So I wasn't looking for a relationship, I'm not looking to connect with a long lost love. I was just trying to say, hey, could you forgive me? Because I mean, at some point in time, somewhere, right, my name might come up, and yeah, Matt's a pastor, can you believe that? He's a total idiot on that guy, what? And now she can say, well, yeah, but he's different.
Matt Brown:Well, how do you know? He actually reached out to me and asked for forgiveness for something that happened over twenty years ago.
Justin Pardee:Right.
Matt Brown:I mean, over twenty four years ago. I mean, I don't know how long it was at the time, but, you know, I think we need to learn to ask for forgiveness. Like, I remember I don't know if you remember this, but a couple years ago when I did the series on honor, I went back to my old boss Mhmm. And, you know, I I wrote a nasty letter when I left, I was upset. And now I'm a pastor in this community, and I realized I didn't honor my boss.
Matt Brown:Mhmm. I feel like I had some legitimate gripes. I do. I feel like the way I was treated was not right, but what I did was wrong. And so I went back to them and said, hey, I just wanna say I'm sorry for how I acted to you guys.
Matt Brown:I was young and stupid and pride ful, and would you forgive me? And what's amazing is I thought they wouldn't remember, and they remembered exactly what I did. And and they said, yeah, yeah, of course we forgive you. But it was interesting. They remembered, and we need to realize that, that we represent Christ to people who don't know him.
Matt Brown:And I don't wanna be a stumbling block to anyone, you know, keeping them from coming to Jesus. I want everybody to be saved. And so I would rather ask for forgiveness, you know, on that side, than have somebody withhold a grudge from me because I've hurt them or wounded them, and I haven't said, hey, I'm sorry.
Justin Pardee:Yeah. Man, I think one of the things that's so cool about confessing to other people is that it they can help us tangibly experience how God actually views us and forgives us. I remember just a couple years ago waking my wife up in the middle of the night and confessing to her, you know, pornography that I was, you know, embracing that very evening, you know, while she and our kids were asleep. And her response in that moment was so profound as she, just was so quick to forgive and speak grace and, you know, like not send me back out to the couch, but literally invite me to come in the bed with her. And I didn't sleep that night because I just was laying there thinking, man, if my wife can forgive me that quickly, like right here in this moment, how much greater is God's ability to forgive Yeah.
Justin Pardee:Than to help me move forward and to call me into the light, so
Matt Brown:Yeah. And I I would say that's that's where we all wanna be in in the relationships are the most intimate. We want those to be the most real. And what I find is, oftentimes in marriages, that's where people hide the most. Right.
Matt Brown:Because they're afraid of being judged. And we're gonna talk more about that this Easter weekend, which I'm so excited, and you'll hear it here first, but you'll hear it then is, you know, I talk about sin at Sandals, not to to make us feel bad, but to teach us how to feel love. And so, because it's in those moments where we receive grace for the wrongs that we've committed, that we actually experience what real love is.
Justin Pardee:And
Matt Brown:that's why we need to talk about real sin.
Justin Pardee:Right. Okay. So Jesus, who's in Jake's group, he actually asked this question because verse 36 says, if you're filled with light with no dark corners, then your whole life will be radiant as though a floodlight were filling you with light. And he asked, how do I become this person that has no dark corners?
Matt Brown:Yeah. Well, the Apostle Paul talks about his conscious being clear. And so so how does that happen? In first Timothy, the Apostle Paul says, you know, this is a trustworthy saying that should be accepted amongst all churches. He says, Christ Jesus came into this world to save sinners, which I think we all agree with, that's why Christ came.
Matt Brown:But then Paul says this, now think about this, the apostle Paul is responsible for 13 letters of the New Testament. He is responsible for, you know, commissioning Luke to write Luke and Acts for Theophilus. So if you look at that, he's responsible for 15 of the 27 books in the New Testament. So almost everything we know about Jesus, what he did, what happened, right, it all comes from Paul. We would think he'd be the most righteous person on earth.
Matt Brown:He says, this is a trustworthy saying, Christ came into the world to save sinners, and he says, and I am the worst of them all. It's not Judas.
Justin Pardee:Right.
Matt Brown:It's me. Mhmm. And, you know, how did that happen? The Apostle Paul invited God's light into every area of his life. And so the gospel of John says that what the world does is, is they scurry from the light, like cockroaches.
Matt Brown:You know, people who don't confess Christ, they're like cockroaches. The second the light turns on, they run to the darkness. What the Christian wants to do is, like you did with your wife, is the second you send, you expose it to the light. And what happened? You experience grace, you experience the love.
Matt Brown:And so what we wanna do is, we want to maintain a life where we confess, not just what we do, because I think about that's where usually we feel like, well, I need to confess, I did this. What I've learned to confess is not just my actions, but I've learned to confess my thoughts Mhmm. And my feelings. So where's my heart? Where's my mind?
Matt Brown:Because typically, right, before I do something stupid, I think something stupid, or I feel something stupid. And so we have to learn to share those things, you know, with our friends, with our spouses, and and confess those thoughts, you know. And I think that's that's how the house becomes clean. When we look at our life, and we don't just look at our our deeds, because the Pharisees, right, were more righteous than anybody according to what they did. Great.
Matt Brown:But Jesus says, but inside you're full of dead men's bones, corruption and hypocrisy. So the outside of the cup is clean, right, our actions, but they never talked about their thoughts and their feelings. Mhmm. They never talked about those things, and those things were darker, you know, than the darkest deeds of what people were doing on the outside. And so we need to we need to invite Jesus into our thoughts and into our feelings, and ultimately that will change our actions.
Stephanie Schaefer:Mhmm.
Matt Brown:So I I don't know if that makes it clear, but the purpose of the light, right, which is not us, it's Christ, is to bring it into our house, which is what? Bring it into your life, bring it into your home, and let it illuminate every area of your life. And so as a Christian, you're not gonna know every area that's sinful when you first become saved. Over time, you're gonna learn, okay, I I need to change these attitudes, I need to change these feelings, I need to change these actions.
Justin Pardee:Yeah. Yeah. I I love that. Okay. Jesus has one more really quick question because
Matt Brown:I love this question's from Spanish Jesus.
Justin Pardee:Exact exactly. In verse 44, Jesus says, what sorrow awaits you? For you are like hidden graves in a field, people walk over them without knowing the corruption, they are stepping on. And he was just was asking what hidden graves are? Are these basically just like buried bodies without Yeah.
Matt Brown:In Jewish culture, you know, it's, you know, like in our American culture, have zero respect for for graveyards. You know, people, you know, decimate them, they Right. They go and they drink and they party. Yeah. You know, Halloween people act stupid.
Matt Brown:Well, in the Jewish culture, you would never do that. You respect the dead person who lives beneath by not stepping on it. And so the idea was, not only do you respect the person, but if you step on it, you're unclean, you're ceremonially unclean and not allowed to worship for a period of seven days, and you have to go through this rigorous process of cleansing yourself so that you can be made right before God. And so what he's saying is, people that are interacting with you because you're not right, because you're not real, they're interacting with corpses. And so not only are you unclean, but you're causing others that you are supposedly teaching and leading, you're causing them to sin.
Matt Brown:And so that's the problem with hypocrisy or religiosity, or, you know, this false belief that I'm better than everybody else, is it doesn't just affect me, you know, Jesus calls them blind guides leading the blind. Mhmm. You're both gonna fall into the ditch. And so, you know, the the idea of a ditch is, you know, this picture of the Pit Of Shoal in in in the Old Testament, we we call it now hell. But it's this idea of, look man, you you have you've got to to get real with yourself, and so you're pretending to be something you're not.
Matt Brown:And so that's what a hidden grave is. And so, you know, Jesus will later talk about polishing those tombstones. Yeah, you can make it look beautiful on the outside, but what's underneath it? Right. It's a corpse.
Matt Brown:And so that's the whole idea is, before we come to Christ, we're dead in our sins, and when we place our faith and trust in Christ, we are born again, we come to life. That's why Paul says in Ephesians, arise, oh sleeper, awake from the dead. And so it's just that idea of coming to life.
Justin Pardee:Got it.
Stephanie Schaefer:We're gonna move into Luke 12 now.
Matt Brown:Yay. Luke 12.
Stephanie Schaefer:And just starting off was, I pulled something out of verse five, but I tell you whom to fear. Fear God who has the power to kill you, then throw you into hell. Yes. He is the one to fear. Mhmm.
Stephanie Schaefer:Does God kill people? Like, I know that death is a result of sin, and that the Bible also says that God desires that none should perish, but that verse is really intimidating.
Matt Brown:Yeah. Absolutely, God kills people. I mean, ultimately, every death that's ever occurred is in the hands of God. So so whether that death occurred as the consequence of sin, you know, like, I mean, we're all going to die inadvertently, you know, not because of the hand of God directly, but because of the effect of sin in our life, but Romans eight says that God subjected all creation to a curse. So God has done all of this to teach us a lesson, to teach us truth, to to draw us to repentance, and so yes, absolutely, you know, God kills people.
Matt Brown:I mean, read the Bible. It's very very clear. Man, he he destroys his own people, the Israelites, over and over and over again because they're not repentant, you know. He refers to them as whores, as prostitutes, loving and longing, and worshiping other gods, and engaging in behaviors. You know, God sees himself as the husband, and his believers as his wife, and he demands faithfulness, and he demands integrity in the relationship, and so, yes, he gives all kinds of grace, but, you know, the Bible says he's slow to anger, but it doesn't say he doesn't get angry.
Matt Brown:The Bible says he's merciful, but it also says that he can he can experience wrath. And so, yes, absolutely, God can, you know, kill people, and he's God. And and like I tell people, when God kills you, it's not a sin, it's just your time. And so, you know, you need to be very very aware of this, that that's a clear teaching throughout scripture, that God can call can call your life at a moment, at a moment's notice. So don't know if we're gonna have a question on the rich young ruler in this passage, but the rich young ruler's life is called.
Matt Brown:Tonight, your very life is demanded of you. So what happened? God said you're done. What did he do? He kills the rich man in this story, who's a fool.
Matt Brown:Mhmm. Because he spent his whole life on money and things and building bigger barns, and he was he was an idiot. Mhmm. And so a lot of us need to realize this that, you know, I think God is going to speak to you through his holy spirit, he's going to speak to you through love, he's going to extend mercy, and if that doesn't work, he's gonna have a one on one conversation with you in heaven, which means you're dead. So you gotta be very very careful, and this is why, again, you know, we talked about this last week, we've made God so loving, we've rendered him impotent of wrath and judgment.
Justin Pardee:Yeah.
Matt Brown:Yeah. And we we need to understand that that the great day of the Lord, the day that all human history is marching towards, is this day of judgment, where we will be held responsible for the denial of God, you know, living our own way, not not living under the fact that we've been created. I mean, look at our country right now. We are rejecting God in every way. Mhmm.
Matt Brown:Morally, sexually, philosophically. I mean, you are considered an idiot and a fool if you believe in God at many of our religious institutions. Well, how's that gonna work on the day of judgment when they stand before God? Who's gonna be the fool? Mhmm.
Matt Brown:So so yes, you know, God is loving and merciful and kind, but we need to be very very careful that we have a healthy fear of God. So to me, you know, I know you and I have talked about Blackfish, the the TV show, and so, you know, the whole story about Blackfish is what happened at SeaWorld. They forgot what they're swimming with. Mhmm. It's called a killer whale.
Matt Brown:Right? And it's called a killer whale, and they're shocked when these things kill. Right. And I think that's the way Christians are with God, is we don't realize we're not just swimming with a killer whale, we're swimming with the one who's who created the whale. Right.
Matt Brown:And we think it's our buddy, right? And we're doing tricks and flips, and look what I can do with God. And you need to remember, right, when that whale, when that killer whale decides to do whatever it does, you're hosed, man. Yeah. And so we need to remember, we we need to have and it's not that that I think that those guides should have been afraid of the killer whales, but they they forgot to fear them.
Matt Brown:Mhmm. They they forgot what they're dealing with. They forgot the power, and we need to never forget the the power of God, and we need to have a healthy fear, not like a we don't need to be terrified and coward, because he's our heavenly father, he's put his spirit in our hearts, and that cries out Abba Father, but he is God.
Justin Pardee:Right.
Matt Brown:And we if you don't have a healthy fear of God, you don't know him. You don't know him. So these people are like, he's my friend, he's my buddy. You know, the word friend, you know, in terms of God, I think occurs two or three times in the entire New Testament. That's Mhmm.
Matt Brown:But we always talk about it, like, that's the normative. Yeah. And, man, we we need to have a healthy fear of God. So so yeah, Jesus, that can happen.
Stephanie Schaefer:Alright. Moving on through Luke 12, and actually I think this kind of follows along with Jesus says that anyone who speaks against the son of man can be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. So what does it mean to blaspheme the Holy Spirit, and why does Jesus really make the point to say you can speak speak against him, but not against the spirit?
Matt Brown:Yeah. So, I mean, I think what Jesus is doing here is he's reflecting the Trinitarian nature of God. And so what he's saying is, is I'm here to give grace. I I am here to extend, you know, multiple mercies. And so ultimately he talks about, you know, look, you have a very very precious moments before you stand before God, so make sure that you take advantage.
Matt Brown:So he's preaching to woo people, he's preaching to reach people, he's trying to extend grace and mercy. But what where Luke is taking us, right, is to Acts chapter one and chapter two, where the Holy Spirit's gonna fall, and the Holy Spirit is going to indwell his believers, and so, you know, God's spirit's gonna come, and we need to be very very careful that we don't reject the wooing of the Holy Spirit. And so, you know, a lot of people, you know, I think try to oversimplify what the blasphemy of the holy spirit is. And so the truth is, specifically no one knows exactly what that means. Okay?
Matt Brown:And anybody that tells you, no, this is exactly what it is, don't listen to them, they're good people, hopefully, but no one knows exactly, there there's not a there's not a specific answer to to this question. What I would say is, is that for those who are worried about the holy blaspheming the holy spirit, you probably need to not be worried. Those who never think about it should be deeply concerned.
Stephanie Schaefer:Okay.
Matt Brown:And so, because if you're concerned about, oh, I don't want to commit blasphemy of the holy spirit, what that means is you are inviting God's spirit into your life, you're seeking direction, you're willing to repent, you you have a desire and a longing to follow God's spirit. And so, you know, the ultimately, the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is attributing the works and deeds of Jesus to the devil, and that's what remember, that's what they did. Right. And so in last week's chapter is, you know, you do these miracles by the power of Satan, and Jesus is doing these miracles by the power of the Holy Spirit. So if we go all the way back to the beginning of Luke, it says Jesus full of the Holy Spirit did these things.
Matt Brown:And so what they're saying is you are not operating by the spirit of God, you are operating by the spirit of Satan, and so it is a complete rejection. And so ultimately, you know, again, I'm trying to oversimplify, but the rejection of the Holy Spirit is the rejecting of the wooing of God's spirit leading you to repentance and placing your faith and trust in Jesus Christ. And so in the book of Hebrews chapter six and chapter 10, it seems to indicate that people can taste of the Holy Spirit, can experience the Holy Spirit, and then reject the Holy Spirit. And what the author of Hebrews says is, there is now therefore no sacrifice to save them. The gospel of John or not the gospel of John, I can't remember if it's first, second, or third John, but John talks about don't pray for those who commit the sin leading unto death.
Matt Brown:We don't know what that sin is, but it could be blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. There's some things, right, and we we have these friends, we have these people that have repeatedly been wooed by the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit has spoken to them, Jesus has knocked on the door of their heart, they have been led to repentance, and ultimately, they have rejected Christ. And when those people have done that, and they've rejected the movement of the Holy Spirit, and they've said Christ is not God, I don't believe, I don't repent, who does he think he is? There's no forgiveness for them. I mean, there there there's no hope for them on judgment day.
Matt Brown:And so there's not there's nothing that we can do for those people, and that's why Jesus talks about there will be a grinding and a gnashing of teeth on the day of judgment, because there's nothing they can say. They're mad because they're going to hell, but there's nothing they can say, because he's gonna roll the tape. Here's here's here's the countless times that the Holy Spirit spoke to you, wooed you, directed you, I spoke to you in dreams, I spoke to you through sermons, I spoke to you through friends, these people were praying for you, the Holy Spirit was wooing you, drawing you, and you rejected God's spirit. Mhmm. And there's no hope for those people.
Matt Brown:And so, you know, again, the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is saying, that's not God, it's something else. So
Justin Pardee:Okay. So I just spent the weekend with my brother in Chicago, so I love this little situation that happens in Luke chapter 12 verses thirteen fourteen. It says, somebody called out from the crowd, teacher, please tell my brother to divide our father's estate with me. And Jesus replied, friend, who made me a judge over you to decide such a thing as that? So, should we Jesus is kind of saying like, why are you bothering me with that question?
Matt Brown:Yeah. So one of the practice of rabbis in those days, and and and kind of way that they made income on the side was they would kind of be like traveling mediators. So they would go to homes and and, you know, try to settle family disputes.
Justin Pardee:Jewish judge duty?
Matt Brown:Yeah, Jewish judge duties, and they would come to your house, and so, you know, it's this whole idea, you know, so there's two things here, is number one, you know, I think we should turn to the church for wisdom in disputes. Oftentimes Christians go to the courts too fast, the Apostle Paul in first Corinthians says that that's bringing shame upon the gospel when two Christians sue each other in the court of law. But I think what Jesus is saying here is, look, that's not my purpose. So so what does this mean? We gotta use our brains.
Matt Brown:You know, the greatest commandment says, love the Lord your God with heart, soul, mind, and strength. Use your brain.
Justin Pardee:Mhmm.
Matt Brown:There are some things that you should just settle. So he says, tell my brother to give me, excuse me, my inheritance. Well, the law already states what what's supposed to happen.
Stephanie Schaefer:Mhmm.
Matt Brown:The older brother in this situation is is probably being, you know, dishonest or something's happening here, or perhaps the younger brother in this situation wants more than what he's legally entitled to, and so that's probably, you know, what what the tension is there. But Jesus says, man, that's not why I'm here. Mhmm. I'm not here to solve the minutiae of, you know, your life, and that's why I tell people all the time, there are some things that just don't matter, like, what's, you know, I supposed to get a job at Target or Walmart? I don't think God cares.
Matt Brown:Mhmm. You know, what's offering the best salary, what's offering, you know, the best work hours, you know, make that decision.
Justin Pardee:Do you look good in khaki pants?
Matt Brown:Yeah. Do you look in khaki pants, you know, or is it red or blue, you know, what is it? So there's just so much time where I think we need not get stuck in the minutiae of life, and you know, what should I do? God has given you a mind, he's given you, you know, people in your life, and you ought to be able to figure some of this stuff out on your own. That's why Jesus says, be as wise as a serpent, and as innocent as a dove.
Matt Brown:Don't be stupid. So how do we gain wisdom? How do we get smarter? Wisdom isn't attained in a day, you you can't put wisdom in a microwave. Mhmm.
Matt Brown:You learn wisdom by reading scripture and learning from the people and the stories in the Bible. And that's the primary way to learn and to grow wiser, and to use that as a database to pull information on to make your decisions.
Justin Pardee:Right.
Matt Brown:And so, so I mean, it's just interesting. Jesus is just saying, that's not why I'm here, that's not my purpose. But then he says, let me tell you
Justin Pardee:a story. Yeah.
Matt Brown:And he tells the story of the rich fool. And so what he's saying is, is life is not all about money. Mhmm. So what this guy wants him to solve, is he wants him to solve a financial crisis, which many people in our church, that's why they're mad at God, God, I didn't get the job, God, I didn't get the raise, God, why are my finances wrecked? And and God's like, look, man, I'm not here to solve your financial problems, I'm here to save your soul.
Matt Brown:Mhmm. And so the parable of the rich fool is a guy who's all about money, he's all about things, and and the bible says tonight, your very life is required of you. Tonight, God killed you, he took you home. Mhmm. And and so the the story ends with be rich towards God.
Matt Brown:Don't just be all about money. And so the primary reason Christ came is to mediate our relationship with God. There's one God, Timothy says, the book of Timothy, and one mediator, Christ Jesus, the man Christ Jesus. And the reason he came, like I'm preaching, my hands are like slapping. Christ came to mediate our relationship between us and God, not our our financial relationships between two brothers that are mad that their dad didn't solve everything maybe, you know, in a more clear manner.
Justin Pardee:Okay. So before he tells that story, he actually responds to the guy, he says, beware, guard against every kind of greed. Life is not measured by how much you own. And this is just a question like, I'm I kind of wrestle with all the time like, how do I guard against greed? Right now, we're renovating a bathroom and you know, we're doing some stuff around the house and I'm always trying to figure out how do I balance trying to like have a great place and a family for Mhmm.
Justin Pardee:Or a great place for my family, for my wife, for my kids, with just like not ultimately being greedy, you know? Yeah. How do I do that?
Matt Brown:Yeah. So so greedy is really, you know, it's lust for self. I mean, that's that's what greed is, and so it's the intention of your heart. And so what I would say is, it doesn't matter how much money you make, you can be poor and be greedy, and you can be rich and be greedy. What you have to ask yourself is, what is the desire of my heart?
Matt Brown:And so like for me, because I make way more money now, you know, as the church has grown than I ever I ever imagined. And I'm not saying I'm rich, so don't be like, oh, what's he make? I'm just saying, look, I I thought I might make $10. I mean, I didn't know what I was gonna make, you know, I mean, literally when I when I quit my job, my full time job, and came on staff at Sandals Church, the offering that week was $10. So even if I get everything that's given, right, my wife and I are on food stamps.
Matt Brown:Yeah. So I've been blessed, and so what I've had to look at is as the church has paid me more money and taken care of me, is I've wanted my generosity to increase. And so for many of us in life, you know, we need to get to the 10% threshold of tithing, which we talked about last week. For some of us who are blessed like myself, and that's a launching pad for generosity, and I wanna be generous to my church, I wanna be generous to our missionaries, I wanna be generous to people in need, I wanna be generous to my family. And so my life will not be measured by the size of my house, but it will be measured in how I'm able to be generous.
Matt Brown:And so I think it's fine, renovate a bathroom, but not at the expense of tithing, not at the expense of being generous to God and his missionaries. Mhmm. And that's the thing like why I hate car payments, and my wife and I try to live without those things is because I don't want to be beholden to Toyota, you know, Motor Corporation or Ford Motor Corporation, and not be able to help people. And so we we've worked really hard to be completely out of debt so that we can be generous. And so that's what I would say is, is I think it's a struggle for everyone, and anyone who says there's not tension there is not being honest.
Matt Brown:What I would say is you've slipped into a greedy state. I always can grow in generosity. I never wanna grow in greediness. I never wanna grow that way. So my heart is, how can I love my wife more?
Matt Brown:How can I love my kids more? How can I be more generous to my church? How can I be more generous to my friends and to my family? And so I love to be able to to be generous, and so Yes. I think that as Christians, if there's not tension there, you've given in.
Matt Brown:And so we need to be very very careful. You know, because there's nothing wrong with being wealthy. There's what's wrong is if that's what you love. You know, the Bible doesn't say that that money is the root of all evil, it says the love of money is the root of all evil. And so, you know, in Luke 12 it says, where your treasure is, there your heart is also.
Matt Brown:And so what is our treasure? My treasure is the kingdom of God. And, you know, so every year, you know, Tammy and I are potentially audited by the IRS because our giving, our charitable giving seems unreasonably, you know, large. And so we just say, IRS bring it. Mhmm.
Matt Brown:Because that's that's the that's the treasure of my heart. And what makes me sad is, it makes me sad that the IRS thinks that that's unusual. Yeah. Because what they're saying is, other Christians don't give at this level. And I think that's sad.
Matt Brown:And so, you know, I don't know if we're gonna ask this question, but there there are clearly parables about servants in in Luke chapter 12, and and this is what Jesus is saying is, look, man, the master is leaving, but he's coming home. Mhmm. And my money is not my money, my money is my master's money. And one day, I'm gonna stand before God, and I'm gonna be accountable for how I spent my money. And I want to be able to hear Jesus say, well done, good and faithful servant.
Matt Brown:My resources aren't my resources, they're his resources. My money's not my money, it's his money. And I'm grateful that I've been able to give and help build this church and and support missionaries and see people blessed, and I wanna be about that. And every Christian should understand that one day we're going to stand and be held accountable before God. And one of the primary things, I mean, Jesus talks about money more than any other subject.
Matt Brown:Because it's a bigger problem for most of us than any other subject.
Justin Pardee:Mhmm. Totally. Thanks for that. You're welcome.
Stephanie Schaefer:And kind of tying with that, so right after that, Jesus says he turns to his disciples and says, that's why I tell you not to worry about everyday life, whether you have enough food or to eat or clothes to wear, and we talked about worry a lot this weekend. But in that verse, Jesus is specifically talking to his disciples. So then what does it mean for worry for everyone else who's not
Matt Brown:Yeah. This is not, you know, you should not tell your non Christian friends, don't worry. They should be worried. They should be very worried. And why?
Matt Brown:They do not have a unique relationship with God. We have a very unique relationship with God because of the mediator Christ Jesus. He has died on the cross for our sins, and he has made a path for the Holy Spirit to be in our lives, and the spirit cries out Abba Father. And so Jesus is saying here is don't worry because God's your father. He's your father.
Matt Brown:You know, this week Tammy and I traveled to Idaho via Denver, Colorado, and we we flew through a tornado. We didn't know this, but we landed in Denver International Airport, and there was nobody there. I mean, it's a huge airport, there's nobody there. I'm like, oh my gosh, did the rapture happen and we got left? What happened?
Matt Brown:And then we hear over the loudspeaker, please head to a tornado shelter. You know, there's a tornado watch in effect. We were the last plane to to land, every other plane was delayed and circled for an hour. So nobody was coming in, and I'm gonna tell you, that plane shook, and and not only was it like a tornado warning, but it was a snowstorm. So when I'm looking out the window, all I see is white.
Matt Brown:And the pilot came on and said, we're gonna have to land by instruments because I can't see. It was very very scary. Mhmm. And so I'm getting ready to worry, and so what does Jesus say? He says, can worry can worry land the plane safely?
Matt Brown:No. Can worry extend your life? And and so the illustration here is one cubit. And so the measure of a cubit is about a foot and a half according to our measurements, 18 inches. Can can it add even a foot and a half to your life?
Matt Brown:Can it add minutes, seconds to your life? No. Know this, and then this was my prayer as we're up there in the sky bouncing around.
Stephanie Schaefer:In a snownado.
Matt Brown:A snownado, was horrible. Is, look man, my life is in God's hands, and if it's my time, that's for him. But, remember back to our earlier question, I was praying for safety. God bless the instruments, bless the pilot, give him wisdom. I can't land this plane, I am completely, utterly helpless.
Matt Brown:And so what does Jesus say? He says, you are more valuable to God than a sparrow. What's a sparrow? The cheapest form of sacrifice for poor people. This is what poor people would sacrifice to God.
Matt Brown:Then he says, you are more valuable than a raven. Ravens are nasty birds. Right? Mean, ravens are what pluck your eyeballs out when you're being crucified on the cross. I mean, ravens are like demonic, man.
Matt Brown:He's saying, you are more valuable than that wicked blackbird that's scary. Mhmm. You Not only that, but every hair on your head is counted. Every moment of your life is precious to God. He loves you.
Matt Brown:Your life is in his hands. So, you know, if I die of cancer or I die in a plane crash, my life is in his hands, and I need to stop worrying, and I need to start trusting that I have a unique relationship with God. And again, he's speaking to disciples. This is not for everybody. This is a unique relationship that Christians have with God.
Matt Brown:We have a unique connection. You don't need me. You don't need to come through me. You don't need pastor Matt to pray for you, because he's your dad. And you can cry out to him, and he will listen to you.
Matt Brown:And so so stop worrying and start praying.
Justin Pardee:Mhmm.
Matt Brown:Start talking to God about things, because he can change your life. He can save your life. He he can do that, so
Justin Pardee:Dude, I just gotta say, last night, I was flying over Colorado, and all of sudden, the frames the plane started shaking.
Matt Brown:Yeah.
Justin Pardee:The pilot, man, he was no help because he got on hate that. And and he said, cabin crew, please be seated as quickly as possible. Yeah.
Matt Brown:Which means we're all going
Justin Pardee:to die. I literally was like, dude, could you at least put on a chill attitude before you pop
Matt Brown:So just so you know, I took off last night from Denver, Colorado. Dude, was horrible. Yeah. Okay. The worst the worst is when you travel with foreign airlines, and they speak over loudspeaker in the language.
Matt Brown:And so, like, French always sounds to me like we're dying. Like, it doesn't matter what they're saying, you know, it just I'm like, oh, we're gonna die or some other language, and so I'm like, please, can we have a pilot that speaks English? Because I I don't I wanna know what's happened. My wife doesn't wanna know. Mhmm.
Matt Brown:She gets nervous when he says, prepare for rough air. I'm like, I wanna know that because that means he's not surprised.
Justin Pardee:Yes.
Matt Brown:Or she's not surprised. My wife would rather die in ignorance. It's just crazy. Crazy.
Justin Pardee:Oh, man.
Matt Brown:I love that woman, but she drives me crazy. Can't listen to this podcast.
Justin Pardee:Stop worrying. Worry was not helping me last night. It
Matt Brown:Okay. But that's an affirmation that I don't make these stories up. It was rough over Denver.
Justin Pardee:It totally was.
Matt Brown:And we took off out of that.
Justin Pardee:It's amazing. Well, and we got we're here for the podcast. Yeah. For you, the wonderful listeners.
Matt Brown:We could have both died, but we didn't worry. Well, maybe we worried
Justin Pardee:a little bit. I worried I worried I worried a little bit. And then I I shifted from worry to just like, really making sure I didn't go to the bathroom right there in my seat.
Matt Brown:It was pretty it was pretty rough.
Stephanie Schaefer:It's been a nice normal night last night, so
Justin Pardee:Yeah. Good. Yeah.
Matt Brown:Because you didn't go anywhere.
Justin Pardee:Okay. So let's let's ask this question. Jesus is telling the story here in verses 46 to 48 about the master and the servants. This gets intense. The master will return unannounced and unexpected and he will cut the servant in pieces and banish him with the unfaithful.
Justin Pardee:And a servant who knows what the master wants but isn't prepared and doesn't carry out those instructions will be severely punished. But someone who does not know and then does something wrong will be punished only lightly.
Matt Brown:Okay.
Justin Pardee:So Jesus telling the story, what does this mean for people who haven't heard the gospel or Yeah. About Jesus?
Matt Brown:So let me start off with this and then disagree with myself at the end. What does it means for people who have who have not heard the gospel? Nothing. Because, and then we'll get back to it Okay. And then I'll say something.
Matt Brown:So I k. Because the who's Jesus talking to? Believers. Right. Servants.
Matt Brown:And so he's talking about those of us who call ourselves Christians, we need to be very very careful in the way. The Apostle Paul says, work out your salvation with fear and trembling. We need to be very very careful. So I think that this is a warning and an admonition, especially to people like us who work for Jesus. We we better not mistreat His servants.
Matt Brown:We better take care of His people, because the master will return and He will handle us. And he actually ends with these words, too much whom's been given, much will be required. Mhmm.
Stephanie Schaefer:The the
Matt Brown:book of James actually says, you shouldn't become a teacher unless you understand that you will face a stricter judgment. So we need to understand this. So people like you and I and Stephanie, we're gonna stand before God, and we're gonna be held more accountable than people who simply came to church and and just, you know, try to do the right things. And so in the book of Acts, we gotta remember everything in Luke is pointing to Acts. In the book of Acts, the Apostle Paul says that wolves will come up from amongst your own congregation.
Matt Brown:And I've seen this through the years, even at Sandals Church, we've had pastors that have come on staff. I didn't know they were wolves. Mhmm. Right? I didn't know that.
Matt Brown:I wouldn't have hired them. But through process, I realized these people make their lives off of eating sheep, and they're very very dangerous. And I've had to discipline, get rid of pastors that have been very very dangerous, And one day, those pastors will be held accountable. I will be held accountable if I don't protect the sheep, and people get mad at me. The sheep in our church get mad when we let a pastor go, or we let a person go, and it's like, look, they're a wolf.
Matt Brown:Mhmm. My job is to protect you know, even from those people you consider your friends.
Stephanie Schaefer:Mhmm.
Matt Brown:And so we have to understand this, that those who serve the gospel, those who are in authority with the power of the gospel, we gotta be careful. Because, you know, some of the people, right, Jesus says, on that day, you'll say, Lord, I did all these things, and he'll say, depart from me, I never knew you. I never ever knew you. Mhmm. And so Jesus uses in the gospel of Luke, the word Gehenna for hell.
Matt Brown:Right. And so the word Gehenna is, you know, the Valley Of Hinnom, and it's it's a really weird place, and so hopefully you and I'll get to go to Jerusalem one day, and I'll show you exactly where this is, and maybe Stephanie can come too. But basically what it was, it's the place in the book of Jeremiah, and I believe in second Chronicles where one of the kings of Israel, I think King Ahaz sacrificed his sons to a god. Mhmm. And so it was just this awful evil place, and like, Israel never forgot that.
Matt Brown:That this is where the king of Israel killed his sons to this pagan god, and so it became this place of just like spiritual rebellion. Eventually, it became the trash dump. And so because nobody wanted to live there, it was kind of a wicked place, and so it just became the place where all of Israel would throw their trash, and so the way that the ancient world dealt with trash is they burned it. And so, you know, this Valley Of Hinnom was on fire all the time. And so when Jesus talks about hell, he uses this burning dump as an example of hell.
Matt Brown:Mhmm. And he says, you don't wanna go here, and that's where you'll be thrown if you are if you are not doing what the master has asked you to do. And so what's interesting here though is he also seems to indicate that there are various forms of judgment on the day of judgment. And so as Christians, we are forgiven of our sins, but we will be held accountable. So ultimately, right, we're gonna go to heaven, the apostle Paul says, but our deeds will be tested as by fire.
Matt Brown:So some of us might be smoking a little bit, you know Right. In heaven and be like, hey, Justin, you know, you're just, know, look like you just came from a barbecue. Exactly. And you're like, yes. So there's going we're gonna stand before God, and we're going to be judged, and and we're going to see what righteous deeds last.
Matt Brown:Right? The the deeds of straw and the deeds of hay, the book of Corinthians says will be burned up, only the deeds of gold, the precious metals will survive. And so we're all gonna stand before God, but Jesus seems to indicate that the level of judgment is going to be based upon your understanding. What did you know? And so that's what I would say to people, is God is going to judge people based upon their level of understanding.
Matt Brown:So I'm gonna go back and disagree with myself. Is this about nonbelievers? No. Now I'm gonna say potentially. So we need to we need to trust that Jesus Christ is the good judge, that he's the righteous judge, and people are going to be held accountable based upon what they know.
Matt Brown:And so we still need to preach the gospel, we need to not be lazy, we need to proclaim Christ to the ends of the earth, but we need to trust at the end of the day, Christ is good, he's merciful, and he's loving, and when he judges people, he will do so fairly. So now let me say this, not everyone will experience the same thing in hell, just like not everyone will experience the same thing in heaven. God will put God will dispense rewards for those of us who have served righteously in heaven, and God will dispense harsher punishments for those who've been truly evil. And so we need to understand that that God is the righteous judge, and he will be fair and equitable in the way that he dispenses judgment. So not everybody's experience in hell will be the same, and not everybody's experience in heaven will be the same, and on the new earth.
Matt Brown:And so that's what he's talking about, and and so what's what's interesting here in this story, and a lot of Christians don't get this, he talks about the master goes away and he says be ready, be ready, prepare yourself, Be ready all night. And so the idea is is even if it's into the third watch, and so we don't know exactly what time that means. If it's the Roman calendar, you know, the Roman time, it could be, you know, maybe four or 6AM, if it's the Jewish time, Jewish watch, maybe midnight to 2AM. So what does he mean late into the night? When the master returns, he says, be ready.
Matt Brown:But what's so interesting is, notice how the master returns. He comes to serve his servants. Ain't that interesting? What he's saying is, don't miss out on the rewards of being faithful, because when I return, I'm going to serve you, and you're going to share with me Right. In my inheritance.
Matt Brown:And a lot of Christians jump right over that sentence because we get scared by the ending, but we don't see that when Christ returns, he comes to serve his fellow brothers and sisters. It's amazing.
Justin Pardee:That's awesome.
Matt Brown:Because we are children of God, and so there's this beautiful thing that we don't want to miss out on. So don't miss out on that verse.
Justin Pardee:So That is awesome.
Stephanie Schaefer:Alright. Wrapping up now Luke 12, there's one more chunk from Jesus, and I think it's really interesting as we're getting ready for Easter this week. Jesus says, I've come to set the world on fire, and I wish it were already burning. I have a terrible baptism of suffering ahead of me, and I'm under a heavy burden until it's accomplished. Do you think I've come to bring peace to the earth?
Stephanie Schaefer:No. I've come to divide people against each other. From now on, families will be split apart, three in favor of me and two against, or two in favor and three against. How on earth do we process this first? Because it seems so the opposite of how we tend to explain what Jesus came to do.
Matt Brown:Yeah. Well, as Christians, you know, we we we're trying to make Jesus so attractive, we've divorced him from his teachings, and that's what's so sad is. So let's let's interpret this verse in context. So Jesus says, I've come to bring fire, I've come to bring division, and so what he's saying is, and there there's multiple meanings here, remember we have to interpret it in Luke, and we have to interpret it in light of Acts. Mhmm.
Matt Brown:So I've I've come to to bring fire, a baptism of suffering. So what's he talking about? I'm going to die. I'm going to die to build my family. So what's going to happen when I build my family?
Matt Brown:My Jewish brothers and sisters are going to be split. Some are going to believe, some are going to reject. Fathers are going to believe, sons are going to reject me. Sons will believe, mothers will reject me. Families are going to be split over who I am, and this is true even in Judaism today.
Matt Brown:They're split, there's messianic Jews who believe in Jesus, and there are Jews who completely reject Jesus. And so here's one of the things, you know, one of the key misunderstandings of Judaism in light of the Messiah, and one of the number one, this is at least in conversations with Jews today, who who are awaiting the the Messiah. They don't believe that he's figurative, but they believe in a literal Messiah. Some Jews have kinda said, well, it's kinda figurative, and it's, you know, like a make believe Messiah, but not many Jews still are awaiting the coming of the Messiah, Orthodox Jews especially. The reason they reject Jesus is because he didn't bring peace on earth.
Matt Brown:And I think that they misunderstand the type of peace that Christ came to bring, and so I'm gonna read Micah five five
Justin Pardee:Okay.
Matt Brown:And it's talking about the Messiah, and it's talking about the coming one, the one who will be who will be born, and the one who will make things right. It literally calls him the ancient of days. So let me give you Micah five two, says, but you, Bethlehem, who are too little among the clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me one who is to be the ruler in Israel, whose coming is from the old and the ancient of days. So Micah is prophesying about the coming Messiah, So he's going to be born in Bethlehem, which, right, even Herod and his people figured that out. But listen to what he says in verse five, or let's go in verse four, and he shall stand and shepherd his flock in the strength of the Lord, in the majesty of the name of the Lord his God.
Matt Brown:And they shall dwell secure, and for now he shall be great to the ends of the earth. So this is an eternal kingdom, but listen to what he says in verse five, and he shall be their peace. So I think that they've misunderstood that Jesus, the Messiah, would bring peace. What that what Mike is actually saying is Jesus will be your peace, and the word there is shalom. So Jesus is not going to bring peace, like, in terms of an absence of absence of conflict between each other.
Matt Brown:What Jesus is going to bring is an absence of conflict between you and God. He's going to mediate peace. He's going to sit down with the two parties, God and mankind, and he's going to mediate peace, and Jesus shall be your shalom. And so I think they misunderstood the kind of peace that Christ would bring. So he's going to separate us because we have to ask ourselves, and Jews have to ask ourselves, Muslims have to ask themselves, and and and those of us are Christians, how am I going to be made right with God?
Matt Brown:As a Christian, the answer is only by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, and that's why Easter matters so much to us. Jesus Christ dying on the cross is the only way that we can be made right with God. And so Jews accept that sacrifice or reject it. And by rejecting it, they're missing out on the peace, and so what Jesus is saying is, I'm bringing fire into families. Fam families are going to split over me.
Matt Brown:Why? Because he is creating a family. Now let me say this, cults like Jehovah Witnesses, even in Mormonism, even in some very very small churches, I've seen this text used to separate families.
Justin Pardee:Okay.
Matt Brown:And so what I say in our church is, man, you need to have a relationship with your family. Don't separate from your families. Love them, pray for them, encourage them. You need you can worship at church, and you can still love and have a relationship with your family, as long as it's not something that's abusive, you know, but connect with them. Cults try to divide.
Matt Brown:Cults always try to huddle up and and not not allow any type of thinking, and that's a very very dangerous way, and they use this verse to do that, that, well, you gotta pull away from your family, and I just think, no, I wanna see my family saved.
Justin Pardee:Right.
Matt Brown:And so I need to be loving and kind and gracious to them, so I reject kind of that cultic like view of this text. But we need to understand that we're going to have to make choices. These are real choices that Hindus are having to make, that Jews are having to make, that Muslims are having to make all over the world. And here's this is what's so sad for us in America, is in America we can receive Christ and still have our family. In many parts of the world, the second they say yes to Jesus Yeah.
Matt Brown:Is the second they lose their family. I think about when I visited Muslim Africa, and I met an individual who came to faith in Christ, his own wife poisoned him. Wow. His own wife tried to kill him Wow. Because he rejected Islam, and he placed his faith and trust in Jesus Christ.
Matt Brown:Wow. His own wife, the mother of his children tried to kill him, because there was a real tearing there of the family.
Justin Pardee:Yeah.
Matt Brown:And so there's a real tear that takes place, and we need to understand that, that our loyalty is to Jesus. We have a biological family that we are to love and be grateful for, but we have a spiritual family that we will spend eternity with. You and I, for eternity, will be, you know, and my brother's a Christian, so that's not the perfect example, but we will be more connected than if my brother had rejected Christ and we were simply biological Mhmm. Siblings. Because you and I are spiritual siblings, we are brothers in Christ.
Matt Brown:Stephanie and I are brother and sister in Christ, we're family forever, and we need to be loyal to each other in that way. Not in a cultic like way
Justin Pardee:Yeah.
Matt Brown:But in a healthy, loving way. I see Sandals Church as as just as important part of my life as I see my family. I would no more abandon this church than I would abandon my family. I love this place. These are my people, because these are Jesus' people.
Matt Brown:Mhmm. And so, okay, now let's skip ahead to Luke. So I have come to bring excuse me, Acts. I have come to bring fire. What happens in Acts two?
Matt Brown:Tongues of fire fall. Yeah. And so, and and he talks about the baptism that he's going to experience, and that flip that with the baptism that we experience, the baptism of the Holy Spirit. And so there's a fire that's coming from heaven that will empower us and fill us with his presence, that will fill us with his power. And so I think the word fire here is specifically used by Luke or by Jesus to point to both the negativity of being a follower of Christ, and the positive nature of being a follower of Christ.
Matt Brown:Yeah. Right. So there's a negative splitting, right? So what does fire do? Fire separates biological families, but in Acts two, it will unite spiritual families.
Matt Brown:So we will be united in Christ with the fire that comes from heaven. And just so just think about that, right, in terms of baptism. There's a baptism that Christ faced, the baptism of suffering, and there's the Holy Spirit baptism that we get when we receive Christ that comes initially on the
Justin Pardee:church in Acts two. Dude, Luke chapter 12 is pretty intense.
Matt Brown:Yeah. I I, you know, I feel like I say this every week, like, week I tell my wife when I'm studying, I'm like, oh my gosh, this is the greatest chapter ever. And it's because it's scripture. Mhmm. Every single chapter is that way, and there's just such amazing amazing stuff.
Matt Brown:So let me jump back to a question we had last week about Abel.
Justin Pardee:Oh, yeah. Yeah. Cain and Abel.
Matt Brown:Yeah. So I wish that I could have answered that again, but I my hunch was right, you know, Abel is mentioned in the book of Enoch, and I didn't realize this, but I I dived into this. And so Abel has a unique role role in Christian lore and and kind of Christian myth. And so let's talk about him from a scriptural perspective. So the book of Hebrews actually talks about the sprinkling of of Christ's blood is a greater offering than that of Abel.
Matt Brown:Right. And so what I didn't realize is is Abel is this kind of first example of innocent suffering. He's this picture of, you know, the the you know, someone who's been murdered and was innocent. Mhmm. And so he becomes a Christ like figure.
Stephanie Schaefer:Mhmm.
Matt Brown:And he becomes a very very powerful figure, you know, in Judaism, in Catholicism, and even in Christianity. And so what Abel is seen as, you know, is as a prophet in a loose term. So he's he's he's loosely like a prophet. He's he's a speaker for God. He is he is killed because his sacrifice was accepting to God, and that made his brother Cain jealous.
Matt Brown:Think about that in in in light of Christ. Christ is the perfect sacrifice, which is why Hebrews says, his blood is better than
Justin Pardee:Yeah.
Matt Brown:The awesome blood of Abel. So Abel's blood was awesome. So, you know, he says from from Abel to Zechariah. So so I look into this, and this is what I thought. You know, anytime you see a to z, right, always think alpha and omega, think beginning and the end.
Matt Brown:And so, you know, in our in our Christian Bibles, our our book ends differently from the Jewish Bible. So the Jewish Bible is separated into different categories. So, you know, the Torah, the writings, and the prophets. And so the first book in the in in the Jewish Bible is Genesis just like ours, but the last book in the Jewish Bible is second Chronicles. So the last book in our Bible is Malachi in the Old Testament.
Matt Brown:So Abel is the first person killed in the book of Genesis. Zechariah is killed in second Chronicles 24. And he's killed at the altar. Because he's prophesying the spirit of the Lord comes upon him, and he's killed. So there's some confusion as to which Zechariah there is, because Zechariah is a very very popular name.
Matt Brown:Mhmm. And Matthew attribute attributes it to the Zechariah that the minor prophet Zechariah. Luke seems to be leaning towards the Zechariah in second Chronicles 24. We don't know specifically because there's, you know, there's not clarity there, but I think what what we need to think of it is, Jesus is saying, look, you have killed the prophets from a to z. From beginning to end, you've killed the prophets.
Matt Brown:And I think Luke is trying to show us why Jesus the prophet would be killed. Because this is what happens to those who speak for God. It's always happened, and it will always be that way. The world will always kill God's messengers. And who is the ultimate messenger?
Matt Brown:Jesus Christ, God's one and only son. And so, you know, when we're in Israel, we have Jewish guides that are amazing amazing people, and they they know more about the New Testament. They know more about Jesus than the people in our church, and so they have a really hard time. How can these people know so much about Jesus and reject him? And here's the answer, because that's what they've always done.
Matt Brown:The majority of Jews throughout history, even though they're the chosen people of God, have always rejected the prophets. They have always rejected the teaching of Christ. And so we need not be judgmental or have an arrogant attitude, but we need to spend that on ourselves. And the reality is most of us reject the words of Christ, the words of God, the teaching of Christ, And we need to be very very careful that we not judge them for something that we do ourselves. And so that's the answer is, you know, chosen or not, man, they reject Christ, and it's so sad.
Matt Brown:And that's why that's why Jesus is saying that, you've always done that. From Abel to Zechariah, you've killed the prophets, and so what's going to happen to me? I too am going to be killed. So
Justin Pardee:And that's what we are getting ready to
Matt Brown:Yeah. Good Friday.
Justin Pardee:Experience with Good Friday and Easter this coming weekend, so. Yeah. Cool. Well, this is this is awesome. Thank you guys for sending in your questions.
Matt Brown:Yeah. Thank you very much. Love you guys.
Justin Pardee:And if you this if this is your first time maybe listening to the debrief, every single week, we are taking your questions from pastor Matt's sermons and from the readings that we're doing in Luke and Acts. So if you've got a question, reach out to your community group leader and they will get them here on the show. If you are one of our community group leaders here at Sandals Church and you have no idea how to get your questions, the questions from your group on the show, we'll just, reach out to our groups team and they will point you in the right direction. Next week, we'll be will we be looking at Luke 13 this weekend? Yeah.
Matt Brown:Be looking at Luke 13 intensively next week. I'm probably not gonna touch a lot on on the Easter message, so Yeah. They'll need to tune into the podcast to really dive into Luke 13, because I wanna preach a message that's I I think will specifically draw people back. We may have one or two verses in the message this week from Luke 13, so don't miss the debrief so that you can follow along in Luke 13 next week.
Justin Pardee:Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Well, hey, we wanna make sure to close with your thoughts on an inspirational quote. Stephanie, you got one for this week?
Stephanie Schaefer:You know, I sure do. I was actually going back to the Britney Spears anthology Oh, last week, and she had a line that just said, if you feel it, let it happen. Thoughts?
Matt Brown:Yeah. That's that's worse advice than follow your heart. Oh, well, there you go. So which I think I'm trying
Stephanie Schaefer:to progressively worse each time.
Matt Brown:Yeah. And I think Britney Spears is, you know, God bless her heart. He's a great example of what not to do with your life. So, you know, and you know, my my girls when they were little love Britney Spears. I was never a big fan.
Matt Brown:That's fair.
Stephanie Schaefer:Yeah. I think it takes time to really appreciate her.
Matt Brown:Yeah. Go ahead. There's a lot of dumb
Justin Pardee:I'm taking that time.
Matt Brown:Don't you think? There's a lot of dumb wisdom out there. Yes.
Justin Pardee:Is that is that a is that can dumb wisdom.
Matt Brown:Yeah. I think because common sense is not common.
Justin Pardee:True.
Matt Brown:It should be we should call it uncommon sense.
Justin Pardee:Let's start a movement.
Matt Brown:Yes.
Justin Pardee:Alright. Peace guys. Have a Thanks for week. We'll see you back here next week for The Debrief.