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The Psychedelic Psychologist is a conversational-style podcast hosted by Dr. Ryan Westrum with clients and guests who use talk therapy to integrate Psychedelic experiences for healing and personal transformation. Tune in to hear people’s experiences, breakthroughs and stories of healing addiction, depression, and trauma through Psychedelics. Dr. Ryan Westrum gracefully and empathetically narrates real therapy sessions with people in their most vulnerable and transformational moments.
I would like to invite you to take a
moment, a moment in this season, the
season that is transitioning, the season
that can be still, the season, that can
be evolutionary transformational, but most
importantly, the season that is witnessed.
Breathing in and breathing out.
I encourage you to sit witness
visually what is in your space,
identifying the nuances of this season,
allowing yourself to embrace and
indulge in what the season is to you.
sometimes reflective, sometimes a movement
of transition, sometimes resistance.
In every season we breathe in
and breathe out, allowing all the
expectations, all the transformations.
To take hold.
I encourage you now to settle in to the
smells, to the sounds, and to the ever
delicate nuances of changing seasons.
Breathing in and breathing out,
never hesitate to acknowledge
the season you are leaving.
The season you are going into,
moving through the body, through
the heart, and within your thoughts.
I encourage you to find your
settling, coming back to this
moment and acknowledging the
season you are standing in.
Hi, it's Ryan.
Welcome to your Weekly Dose of the
Psychedelic Psychologist, where I
invite my guests to share stories
about their psychedelic experiences.
We cover a variety of topics
from overcoming addiction and
severe depression to finding
wholeness in spiritual emergence.
Today you're going to hear from one
of my guests, someone who I cherish
deeply respect, and am deeply humbled
by the beloved opportunity to walk,
support and witness their healing.
Hiya.
It's great to hear your voice.
How are you coming in?
I'm doing so well, so well.
Seasons , what do you make of
seasons and how do you, work within
the medicines and seasons and work
without the medicines in seasons?
Hmm?
What was about this time last year?
Around the wintertime that I was really
feeling this pool for some deep work in
the summertime, and so my year was really
initiated with seasonal work and thinking
things through in a cycl cyclical way.
Now that I'm coming out of a
really deep shadowy winter season.
I can feel spring starting to bloom.
I'm welcoming it in one of the
deepest ways that I think I've ever
welcomed Spring in my whole life.
This was probably the Shiest
winter season of my life, but
absolutely the most pivotal I've
gotten to know myself on a level.
That is so intimate that I am absolutely
enthralled with just being with
myself, very simply, being with myself.
I love what you're saying
in that testimonial.
The idea of getting through the seasons
almost in this journey of sorts, and then.
wonderfully said to be with yourself.
Can you tell me about the darkness of
the season and what you're recognizing
right now, and we will get to the
light of spring and the movement of the
embodiment, but in a irreverent way.
What are you acknowledging?
You went through this winter?
Hmm.
Really the entire year was
such a beautiful unfold.
. And as I started getting closer to
the winter, I noticed a shift in
my own energy and my own intuition.
I could feel something on the
horizon, could see like things
in the rafters, so to speak.
And so I had this sense within my body
that, not to brace, but to be cognizant
and to be open and to create time to go n.
and what I noticed was several core
experiences in my life and traumas
started bubbling to the surface.
As much as I tried to keep it down the
lifetime of work, of keeping it repressed,
it was ready to come out, and I knew it.
I knew that these traumatic events were
ready to be seen, ready to be honor.
Ready to be owned and acknowledged.
And so it was this deep listening and
what I noticed was this heightened
awareness, this go around and this season.
There was a pervasive feeling that this
awareness would almost be an antidote
to the pain or the suffering or the
challenge of seeing myself this way.
But what I noticed was that the
awareness was not an antidote.
It just slowed things down
enough for me to really.
See myself, see myself
in these experiences.
That's a key component that I wanna,
unpack a little bit and pause within your
story because what you're identifying with
is you slowed down enough, even though it
was challenging, and have the opportunity
to look deeper and, and find so.
Mm-hmm.
. And this is a testimony to
your integration process.
It's not suggesting that you
were doing anything in the
heightened sense of the state.
You were actually doing this on your
own, within your own expression of self.
Mm-hmm.
, absolutely smile.
Can you tell more about that?
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was, a lot less doing
and a lot more being.
and that distinction for me was creating
space in this pocket of integration.
After a really, really difficult period
this winter, I was feeling really
called to work with the medicine.
It was very, very on my heart,
who was pulling on me as,
a way to honor this season.
And the difficulty and just creating
more space for myself, more quietude has
been the absolute most profound tool in
this period of integration, just space.
That, strikes me and really humbles
me because in our culture today, we're
so, , maybe conditioned to reach for the
medicine or reach for something to soften
it, mute it, be it cannabis, alcohol,
a psychedelic experience, or any SSRIs.
And what you're telling me is you
knew it, you saw it coming, you
saw the intensity, and you leaned
into it with your own purity and.
Almost stretched into the uncomfort.
Yes, I could see it coming and
I could feel it, this beautiful
way you articulated that.
I could see the bigness of it.
I could feel the bigness of
it, not just see it, but feel
it on this embodied level.
And there was no question or option
of not looking at myself in that.
I don't have an explanation as to why
that's so deep within me, but it is, and
for me, when I see an intense pocket of
time like this, it actually gives me more
curiosity and wonderment and excitement.
And I think this go around, I could
feel the intensity, I could feel.
Embracing in the way one would brace for.
Mm.
Any experience that really needed
really deep listening and embodiment.
That, leads me to now coming through
the other side, your lightness.
What do you do to.
Recognize or honor the darkness
and not say, ignore it or relish
in it, but how do you transition?
What?
What would be a transitioning tool
or ritual you do as now you're
feeling this wonderful energy?
Mm-hmm.
after such a stretch and shadow work.
Hmm mm
more.
This is the worst answer ever.
It's a boring answer.
No, it's great.
It's wonderful just more quiet, like
really My, one of the biggest things
that I took away from this period of
time was how important my mornings are,
and to keep myself in my own space for
a period of time is absolutely critical.
to feeling like I'm experiencing
total freedom in my day-to-day,
which is essentially the, the
biggest theme of this entire season.
Yeah.
And so what does that look like
when you get to be within yourself?
Because I think it's a profound
exercise and it also fringes on.
Deeper, deeper work, right?
The more quiet to the more we go inside.
So what does it look
like personally to you?
Hmm.
Like a typical morning would look like
waking, staying in bed as long as possible
with my own thoughts and allowing them
to be what they are, taking notice if
they're frantic or if they're spacious.
And that's setting the tone for my.
So not rushing through that part just
to get to the shower or breakfast or
whatever it is, like creating that space
for myself before I intermix with my
family, my kids, my husband, anything
that is, I'll live and die by that
time because I see how important it is.
That's tells me that you're also
living and walking intentionally.
Even though it could be frantic
or spacious, you're not trying
to make judgment or assign
a meaning on it too early.
Hmm.
That's been a big lesson
coming out of this season.
because there is a lot of resistance and
a lot of gear grinding because I would see
so many patterns and see so many things
or notice the anxious swirly thoughts in
the morning, and there would be so much
judgment, especially with the heightened
awareness, and I had to work through that.
Really work through that
and bring a bit more of your
favorite word, gentleness, right?
Isn't it the truth though?
Thank you for acknowledging.
it's this crazy idea though that we can
quickly wrap ourself up with this noose
of judgment and trying to make sense of
it before it even has gotten started.
Hmm.
Yeah.
I love how you said that as a noose,
and it is exactly how it felt.
, I was noticing, you know, different things
and different patterns within myself that
I was really coming face-to-face with.
And as I was noticing it, I
was noticing my inner critic.
And what I befriended
with her was instead of
listening to her and creating judgements,
Around where I am or what I'm doing,
or who I am, who I be in this world.
I started befriending her and having
a conversation with her because what I
noticed in this period was that my critic,
all she wants to do is keep me safe.
And so I started, I'm just using
the critic as an example, but I
started sitting with these parts
of myself and instead of feeling.
Ashamed that I'm critical of myself often.
Then I just shifted that and said, oh,
my inner critic has a lot to say today.
I should probably sit down with her.
Yeah, it's says slowing down.
That's fantastic.
Go ahead.
No, please.
It's just it, it remarks with this
overarching metaphor of seasons that we're
quick to acknowledge what's coming on the
horizon, but we forget what we just went
through and we don't slow down enough.
Within the transition of seasons
or the voices that come through
us, we're quick to go, oh, there's
the voice, there's the season.
What's next?
What's next?
Mm-hmm.
rather than what you just said.
Marinating in it, sitting with it, asking
questions, inviting in a deeper dialogue.
Hmm mm-hmm.
. Yeah.
This is
highlighting just the theme of
quietude and space as I was noticing.
Spring coming in and my own energy
working through this really deep phase,
and I started feeling relief, joy,
excitement to be in the fray again.
I actually started noticing fear
come up because of the worry
of that being Im permanent.
Oh, don't bring me happiness
right now, because I really
want it and I want it to stay.
. So there was this pervasive feeling
of wanting to be out of the season.
I was in so much that
that brought me pause.
I thought, hmm, the fact that you want
out of this so much is the biggest reason
why you need to be slow getting out of it.
That's.
pausing me as a overarching memory of
also a medicine ceremony, because often
if we're trying to force ourself out of
that, have you experienced that before in
sessions where you were like, oh, feeling
it, feeling just the intensity of it, be
it good, bad, or indifferent, challenging,
or, and then there's this like, yeah,
grasp of, oh, I need to get out of
this, or, oh, I wanna stay in it, right?
Mm-hmm.
this, this control and power too.
. Mm-hmm.
. Yeah.
Actually, funny you bring that up.
It, it reminds me of an experience
I had in the medicine ceremony, a
lot, few weeks ago that was really
helped open up this season for me.
It was the first time in medicine
that I've ever felt so normal.
I felt so in the center of my being.
Just perfect equilibrium and the
feeling that I got in that space
was such an embodied feeling.
There was no psychedelic visions
happening or these mega connections on
an existential level, what have you.
It was such an embodied feeling of
spaciousness and trust in self that I
had this meta-awareness thinking, wow,
I'm not really feeling this medicine
the way I normally would, and yet I
feel so tapped in to the seat of my
being right now that that feeling.
I sat with really quietly, and that's
what I've brought into my integration
period, is that little nugget, right?
The fuck there.
That's beautiful.
There's a confluence of sorts,
almost emerging of two rivers, the
heightened stints of medicine work
and my reality like merged together
and I think there's an underlying.
Gratitude I have when I hear you
say that, because it's all the work
that's been laid down the foundation
of integration without medicine that
shows, hey, I have this within myself.
Mm-hmm.
and I might not need
the, the monster doses.
I might not need the consistency of using
these medicines as much as I used to.
And I think it's a really necessary
reminder of the wonderful.
That you're doing to, mm-hmm.
Con, converge the two.
Mm-hmm.
. Thank you.
Yeah, it's been interesting because
in this integration period, I've
noticed a pool to be sitting with
myself on a small dose of a similar
medicine, like just a small amount.
And book out an entire afternoon where
it's just journaling, laying around
dancing, listening to music as much as
possible, creating that space within
myself that I, I use the word encode when
I feel a feeling or an energy that feels
important that I need to be learning.
Say more about that.
What is, tell Unpacking code for me.
Teach me about MM and code.
Great question.
I love this question because I think that
activity is very intuitive for me, so it
gives me a little bit of pause to unpack
it for others, and I really love this.
And coding for me is when I
recognize a feeling within my body.
usually as truth, or it could be
joy or just some feeling within
my body that feels important.
Like it's an invitation
for me to pay attention to.
It's like a specific texture to
the way that feels in my body.
And when I feel that, I know
it's an invitation to pause.
Be quiet, and just listen.
And by listen, I mean experience the way
this feeling is flowing through my body.
Good to know.
That's what I mean by encode.
I can feel it.
Thank you.
It's really, it provides you context.
It drives the invitations to unfold,
open, close, and recognize what you're
really wanting to do in the moment.
Mm-hmm.
, can you tell me who.
, what is the homage you have
to this work you're doing?
What?
What do you owe yourself and what do
you recognize you owe the invitations
you've accepted with the medicine?
Hmm.
It's been a minute.
We've been together.
You've been doing a lot of
really transformational work.
Mm-hmm.
I wanna sink into this question again.
Will you ask it in a different.
, what is the homage you have for yourself?
Mm-hmm.
, in recognizing all the work you've
done as well, what is the homage
and respect that you have for the
medicine and how do those two merge?
Mm-hmm.
Well, for self, there's a
pervasive feeling of curiosity.
people will often reflect you do the work.
You do so much work on yourself.
And I actually get a little irritated
with the word work because for me,
this is just part of my being so homage
to myself, respect myself, and this
process is just respecting this natural
part of me that's curious about me.
Who are you?
Who are you here?
That's the question.
And for the medicine,
what I've noticed over the last
few years is that I actually have a
really intuitive relationship with it.
If I trust myself and I'm thankful
for the work that I've done, kind of
front loaded a lot of work that got
through a lot of fear, really deep.
Took several years off of doing medicine
or any kind of ceremonies or that
type of work because of the bigness.
That was unleashed for me
in an integration process.
That was really long, and what I
bring with me now as respect with
the medicine is our dance together
and the way that we communicate and
speak with one another and respect.
each other's need for space, and
when we're calling on each other.
It's a really, really wonderful way of
expressing that and just the interpersonal
relationship, and I know that I need
to pause and also endorse gratitude for
your determination and curiosity over
the long course of saying, Hey, I just
don't need to pick this up right now.
I have other things, and
it's such a testimonial to
your place and the space you.
and then knowing when it's okay to
accept the invitation for the medicine
and when you're calling on it.
Mm-hmm.
. Mm-hmm.
, it's cleared it out quite a bit.
From my vantage point.
You're able to clearly see when
it's appropriate to be with it
and when you, it might not be the
necessary tool to be engaging.
Yeah.
And that feeling feels
really fucking great.
. . Yeah, that feeling feels really good.
Yeah.
It's not an anxious attachment
or a insecure kind of grasping.
And I think especially with
the Renaissance today, everyone
wants to lean on that first and
kind of go, go big or go home.
And it's like really the nuance of
the sobriety of integration, the
ability to check other tools, other
skillsets, and just as you said
so beautifully fucking trusting
yourself with curiosity and clarity.
Mm-hmm.
. Mm-hmm.
. Trusting yourself with
curiosity and clarity.
Yeah, and me being the hyperbolic,
the hyperbolic paradox, I, I'll say
now that that's my hope and intention
personally is that we become able
to use so many of the skills that
the medicine is a, a supplement or a
conduit towards a spontaneous catalyst,
but does not need to be, you know,
set on the altar every single time.
Mm.
Trust the breath.
Trust the intuition.
Trust your curiosity.
Just trust your body, not needing to put
anything in it, no matter how sacred.
Mm-hmm.
, I love that it brings me back to
encoding because for me, I think that's
the draw to sitting with really those
feelings and quote unquote encoding.
It is.
That's what I'm doing very lucidly within
the medicine is I wanna know this feeling
so I can bring it with me practically
when I wake up tomorrow morning.
, right?
Like, yeah.
I just wanna be able to pull from
it in a way that I pull from all
my other feelings and emotions
and energies that run within me.
But this one might be new or
might be important for me to you.
Pin in some way.
Kyle, what are you doing right
this moment in this week?
In this season of transformation,
to be gentle with yourself.
Hmm.
Beautiful.
Question.
More rest.
This entire week I blocked off.
for myself for an entire
week to be with myself.
Phone is on silent or off,
and this looks like deep rest.
It looks like caring for my family
in a deep way so that I could
work through any personal guilt or
anything about taking this time so
that I could not only create the.
but practice settling into the space.
Fantastic.
I owe you a deep sense of respect.
I, again, can't say with enough words
the honor and gratitude I have for
being a part of your healing journey.
And I'm indebted and thank you.
Mm-hmm.
, thank you so much.
I appreciate this so much.