Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
The only podcast covering all things Arizona State athletics! We bleed maroon and gold, and love talking about the Sun Devils no matter what sport.
David Howman (00:00)
Welcome one, welcome all back to another episode of the Echo from the Buttes podcast. I am your host David Hellman joined by my three great co-hosts Austin Bundy, Andrew Hazlett and Tom Harden. And we're coming to you this Monday morning. We are basking in the glow of yet another Arizona State football victory. We had a couple of other victories from the weekend and other ASU sports as well. But football is the one with the, ⁓ all the lights shining brightly on it now because we are getting into the thick of things with the big 12 race.
Things are getting complicated, things are getting convoluted with all of the tiebreaker scenarios. We've got a game to break down, we've got all that to break down, a lot of other stuff to talk about. But first, round the horn, how's everybody feeling? General thoughts and feelings after this game.
Tom Hardon (00:47)
I tell you the victory coffee tastes all the better this morning. It wasn't the prettiest win, but a win is a win. And it doesn't matter if it's by two points or by 22 points, as long as you're on the right side of the scoreboard, we can take that home with us and enjoy it for what it is.
Austen Bundy (01:09)
Yeah, I'll say like it was, ⁓ I was feeling good there for a little bit. And then of course, once you get into the fourth quarter and things start coming apart again, I was like, all right, this can only go one of two ways that we've seen this season, right? They're gonna be just fine with a last minute drive or this thing's gonna come crumbling apart like the other losses we've had this year. And thankfully it was the former, but ⁓ it was nice to see some consistency out of Jeff Sims. It was nice to see a lot of the same things we saw from him in the Iowa State game.
And I really liked how when he was throwing the ball, he was distributing across a lot of different guys. And I mean, look, we had a Derek, you save you a breakout game. I didn't think I'd be seeing that this year, but I'm really glad that we are. that's nice.
Andrew Hayslett (01:51)
I'd certainly be surprised and welcome one seeing you say B.O. breakout, they say close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. So it's kind of my thoughts. Just a win's a win. And then you're on to Colorado this week and then hopefully take care of business there. That's really it.
David Howman (02:01)
you
Yeah, I
mean, this game really did, it put me through it because Austin, just like you, I mean, the first half went great. First half, was like, yeah, this is the team I know that I'm capable of seeing every single Saturday. And also this is the team in West Virginia that lost to Ohio earlier in the year. they're, you know, I mean, obviously it's the first year of a rebuild for Rich Rodriguez. You know, I won't go too harsh on them, but they're not a good team.
And then things started happening in the late third quarter, beginning of the fourth quarter. And that touchdown pass late in the fourth quarter, it was a swing pass to the running back on like third and forever. And he just gets two blocks, cuts back, runs. I was like, my jaw just was hanging wide open. I couldn't believe what I was watching. It took me back to the Mississippi State game and just all of the bad thoughts started coming back into my head.
Tom Hardon (02:42)
and
David Howman (03:11)
And so I was really, really pleasantly surprised, to put it lightly, that they were able to turn things around and come back and win it after the way that they came very, very close to blowing it. And not only doing it offensively with a really good drive, but then also the defense making the clutch play Keith Abney. He said after the game, ⁓ he said he actually like locked eyes with the quarterback before he threw the pass that he ended up intercepting, which is just the coolest thing ever.
So it was cool to see the offense step up, Jeff Simms having another good game, and then the defense to kind of atone for their own mistakes and make the game ceiling play like that was really, really fun.
Andrew Hayslett (03:51)
Chris Cartman of Sun Delisour summed up that third and twenty-seven play best. I wouldn't have believed it unless I covered ASU for Eleven.
And that is a pretty fair assessment of what happened on that.
Tom Hardon (04:08)
we knew what uh... we knew what scott fox could bring in at quarterback for west virginia and he he finished at one point i think i put out in our uh... in our channel he had three hundred and thirty four passing yards and almost two hundred and ten of those yards came on three came on three individual plays like it's you know you're
You're kind of like weighing the good with the bad when you see that. Was it really Scotty Fox who beat it or did the defense beat themselves and overthink and overlook that situation for what it really was? There's no way that a 90-yard touchdown play to the halfback should have happened.
Austen Bundy (04:55)
I think what the color commentator put it best during the broadcast, because I was at work when this was all happening and like it was what third and 22, third and 28, I think was the play. So I just went back to what I was doing thinking it was going to be a punt eventually. And then I hear them going crazy and I'm looking over and just like, where did everybody go? I, and the color commentator, I think put it best. said that the guys in the secondary who were supposed to make that tackle once he gets into the second level, we're depending too much on the guys in front of them to play that.
Prevent defense to play the underneath stuff to just give him a little bit, but you know, he's not going to make it to the to first down marker, but they got too complacent in hoping the guy in front of them was going to stop them. And then they weren't in the right position to make the tackle they needed to once he got into the second level and was on there in their territory. So like you said, Tom, it was a little I think it was a little bit more complacency on that in that situation because a quarterback can only do so much on a big play like that. But after the ball has been caught, it all comes down to
⁓ tackling the runner at that point and it's all just a space game. ⁓ Space and angles and I think the secondary got a little too lazy thinking on a third and third and whatever third and long that they were just going to stop him short of the sticks anyways even if he got 21 yards on a play.
David Howman (06:10)
Yeah, I think that's that's essentially what exactly what happened and they were breaking it down to like you said after the fact and there were because yeah, I mean ASU they did play that kind of prevent defense which I think in that situation third and 28 or whatever it was and they're backed up in the shadow of their own goalpost like that's like the one instance where I'm kind of okay with it because again you forced the dump off great I mean they had you know six or seven guys all 20
20 yards off the line of scrimmage, somebody's gonna make a tackle, except if you're ASU. But there were guys that took bad angles, they took themselves out of the play just by that alone. There were two different players that got blocked by the same guy at the same time. ⁓ That can't be happening. And then just really good running by the West Virginia running back who made some plays with his feet afterwards as well. ⁓
And I mean, still should never get to that point when he caught the ball. I think he was maybe one yard ahead of the line of scrimmage. I mean, you figure in that kind of situation, you'll give up a couple of yards, you know, maybe they'll they'll get to like a fourth and five, but they're still going to punt because again, they're deep in their own territory. Yeah.
Tom Hardon (07:27)
Yeah, that's kind of play where West Virginia was just
hoping to get a little bit of breathing room for the kick so they're not kicking punting from the back of the end zone. then it just snowballed from there. I was in the crowd. I was sitting in the north end zone. And I have never heard the air leave Mountain America Stadium as quickly or as completely as I did on that one play. There have been games that I've been to where there are no expectations.
David Howman (07:36)
Mm-hmm.
Tom Hardon (07:57)
entire 2023 season. you know, to be, to have that the buzz and atmosphere that ⁓ was generated all in the in second quarter really just gets sucked out so quickly on one play. It was eerie hearing just how out of it the crowd was taken.
David Howman (08:14)
Yeah, no, I mean, and that I felt that watching at home too. It was just instantaneous moment of like, I can't believe that just happened filled with, well, now this game is over. ⁓ But again, again, as you won, like I feel like we all, I think it's ⁓ symptomatic of being a Sun Devil fan that we all immediately jump on that one negative, but they did win and Jeff Sims had another game.
I think the last time that he played, which at this point, the Iowa State game feels like decades ago. It's been so long, but last time he played it, the game plan was smartly built around his run ability. And they really didn't ask him to do too much with his arm. This one was kind of different. I he was still running the ball of course, but they had a lot more in the past game. I think that's also a reflection of the fact that it was at home versus being on the road, being in a hostile environment.
But Jeff Simms looked good. I mean, he did not by any means look like to the level of, you anybody saying, we should have been starting him this whole time instead of Sam Levitt, but he played really well. He played within the confines of the scheme. ⁓ And he also did it without Jordan Tyson. And I think that's something that's really, really important to consider as well is he didn't have, you know, arguably the best receiver in all of college football.
most likely going to be the first receiver taken in the draft this year. He didn't have him. like we talked about, Derek Eusebio had to have his breakout game. Awesome to see him do it. Shaman Mateur, we all love Shaman Mateur. He had himself a day as well. He even took a snap at quarterback. ⁓ Didn't work out very well, but I was excited to see it. then, know, spreading the ball around to a few other people. Jalen Moss had a couple of moments here and there. And I don't think anything's
been officially announced, but a lot of people anticipate Jordan Tyson could come back this next week, especially with them playing Colorado, which is where he once played. ⁓ And that gives a lot more hope, at least for me, for this offense going forward. Jeff Simms is getting into a rhythm now. He's feeling a little bit of confidence. He knows he has the physical ability. I mean, this is a guy that was a starter at Georgia Tech for a couple of seasons before they got really good.
and he had struggles there and then he went to Nebraska and had struggles there. Like this guy has been through it in his career and his career arc has led him to this point. And so it's really, really gratifying to see like he's starting to feel it. Like he's starting to play at a high level. He's starting to play at the level that everybody has known that he could for a while when they first recruited him to Georgia Tech. When Matt Ruhl got him in Nebraska, he thought he was getting a steal. And, and so this offense could now become very, very dangerous over these next couple of weeks.
which they're gonna need because again, and we'll talk about this a little bit more in a little bit, they need to win out. They need to beat Colorado. They need to beat Arizona. Even if it wasn't, even if there weren't any big 12 title game implications, they still gotta win that one. But it becomes even more important now. And so with Jeff Simms having two good games in a row, Jordan Tyson potentially coming back next week. ⁓ I'm feeling really, really positive, really, really good about this team right now.
Tom Hardon (11:38)
You you said it perfectly, you that this wasn't the world-beating game out of Jeff Sims. It's not a game that, like you said, will not ⁓ sow any seeds of doubt that maybe he should have been the starter all season long. We're not going to see another jersey get added to the collection on display in the Hall of Fame. But he was effective.
We did see a lot more of the playbook open to him in the passing game. think some of it also has to do just with the overall conditions because think back to the game in Ames. It was pretty poor weather, lots of rain throughout the game. So really take the ball out of his hands, at least throwing wise, and go with the smart plays on the ground, which we saw a lot of two weeks ago. Now you work in the passing game in front of your home crowd.
I think we've all we're all conditioned to put out the Shaman alert in our in our thread whenever whenever he does anything whenever he gets a touchdown or gets it gets his targets and it and rightfully so you know he he has proven to be a dynamic player when he is given his chances and
like you guys i have to let's see a breakout game from another receiver in their case a bit it's you're seeing progression throughout the entire wide receiving room and it's not they're showing that the ⁓ play on and run through receivers not named for and when he come when he does come back whether it's next week at colorado or is not back until the arizona game again we're saying nothing's been
Nothing's really been determined yet. I think that will only be more of an asset just to have him and have him be that threat, but have him not be the end all be all for the offense.
David Howman (13:30)
Yeah, well, and again, we kind of touched on it a little bit. Big chance for ASU going down the road, still trying to get into the Big 12 title game. And something happened this weekend ⁓ that helped them out a little bit. Still don't control their own destiny as far as the path back to Dallas, back to the Big 12 title game, but their odds went up. And that was Cincinnati lost to
Arizona and you know it was it was a really funny situation because I put out an article on devils in detail at the start of the weekend with kind of a rooting guide for ASU fans for all these different big 12 games and which ones would help out ASU and of course the only one that actually ended up happening was the one where the Wildcats win where they enjoy some success and I even labeled it in that article as the unmentionable scenario because
Obviously not a single one of us would ever root for them to win. I think I said I'd sooner see us miss the Big 12 title game entirely than root for them to win a game. That being said, they beat Cincinnati on the road, I might add, which if it were any other team, I would say is impressive. It helps ASU because now Cincinnati has two conference losses.
Andrew Hayslett (14:40)
Thanks.
David Howman (14:59)
now also means for right now ⁓ Texas Tech and BYU are alone at the top so if the season ended today those two are going to the Big 12 title game but if either one of those two teams loses one more conference game now we're cooking and ⁓ I was running through the scenarios before we started recording I was crunching the numbers I listed the accounting help of my
Austen Bundy (15:15)
Okay.
David Howman (15:27)
my favorite law firm, Dewey Cheatham and Howe, LLP. And I think we have something here. And we talked about like the scenarios, the tiebreakers on the last episode. Essentially, if we get into the end of the season and there's a five way tie between Utah, Arizona State, BYU, Houston and Cincinnati, which seems possible, ⁓ it's gonna get really, really messy because
The first scenario would not, the first tiebreaker scenario doesn't come into play because ⁓ there would not, all teams involved would not have played each other. And there wouldn't be one of those teams, one of those five teams that, cause if, if one of those teams has played all of them and beat all of the other teams that they're tied with, then they win the tiebreaker. But that hasn't happened. ⁓
then it would be the records of the tied teams compared on winning percentage against common conference opponents. But because there's a five way tie, these five teams do not have a single opponent that all five of them have played. So we almost had it by the way, we almost had it with I believe Baylor and I forget which team it was that hasn't played Baylor, but missed it by that much as they say.
Then it would be the records of the tied teams against the next highest placed common opponent, ⁓ which based on where things are right now would be Arizona. ⁓ Not all of these five teams have played Arizona. So then we go down to what Tom and I were trying to figure out and the math gets really, really funky here. The record of all tied teams based on combined win percentage in conference games of conference opponents.
So not ASU's conference record, but the conference record of their conference opponents. So strength of conference schedule essentially is what we're dealing with here. And that's a lot of math.
Tom Hardon (17:25)
you
I'm looking at Austin doing
the mental gymnastics trying to rectify that statement.
Austen Bundy (17:35)
Thanks.
David Howman (17:38)
Yeah, that's a lot of math for people to do. I mean, we're all ASU students at one point or another. We can't do that kind of math. So.
Austen Bundy (17:39)
I'm just trying to understand what that means.
Andrew Hayslett (17:51)
And we're all jealous.
Tom Hardon (17:51)
I believe as the kids say, that's a lot of word salad.
Andrew Hayslett (17:52)
⁓
David Howman (17:55)
It is it is so but that that is probably where we end up if those five teams finish in a five in a five-way tie for second place Which You know, the the the numbers of whatever that is right now, we didn't do the math. Sorry It's too much but whatever those numbers are right now are going to be different because all of these teams have two more weeks left to play and Those numbers will change ⁓
I was just kind of doing the eye test and I think Cincinnati would kind of get the short end of that stick because of those five teams, they're the only one that hasn't played Texas Tech, which would hurt them a little bit. ⁓ Arizona State has a fairly strong schedule. ⁓ They beat Texas Tech, they beat TCU, they lost to Utah and Houston, but they both have strong records. ⁓ Utah also has...
Might be in the driver's seat in that case because they've they've beat Cincinnati. They lost to BYU in Texas Tech. They also beat Arizona State ⁓ But then they also they they just played Baylor they played Colorado who's been bad Depending on how Kansas State and Kansas finish which is their last two games that could sink that number a little bit And then of course there's there's also the the the universe where we figure that out
and those numbers all still come up a tie. And then we move into total number of wins in a 12 game season, in which case just your overall record is what puts you ahead. But that's probably where we're headed right now is trying to figure out the math on those strength of conference schedule. ⁓ All of which to say, they're still very much in it.
Tom Hardon (19:40)
If there's any season where it could come down to a corn flip, I think this is the season that we could see the corn flip decide who wins the tiebreaker.
Andrew Hayslett (19:48)
Yeah, it happened in West Texas for their high school playoffs. Like, honestly, if it's that, let's send a representative from each school to some unknown place and have it have a five way coin flip.
David Howman (19:52)
Mm-hmm.
Austen Bundy (19:55)
you
Tom Hardon (19:58)
Thank
David Howman (20:03)
⁓ I don't even know how you logistically how you do that.
Andrew Hayslett (20:08)
It doesn't have to be anyone important, it could just be like a random student.
David Howman (20:13)
A random student from, let's say a random student from Oklahoma State. way they don't have anything, any emotional stakes. Yeah.
Tom Hardon (20:19)
Somebody who has no dog in the plate.
David Howman (20:21)
Yeah, it's gonna be complicated though. But again, that all rests on not only ASU winning out, ⁓ but also ⁓ BYU would have, I guess Texas Tech could also lose. ⁓ That seems a little unlikely at this point given their schedule. Whereas BYU, up next they play Cincinnati. They play Cincinnati on the road. ⁓ Cincinnati's been a pretty good team most of the year. They also have been
better at home. know they just lost there. So there's also kind of that aspect of they're going to be playing angry. ⁓ I think that bodes well for for ASU against rooting for BYU to lose that game. ⁓ Obviously it would help if Utah and Houston both were to lose another game because they do have that win over ASU even though that necessarily head to head won't come into play if there's three or more teams that are tied. But
That's probably where we're headed, which is why it's important for ASU to keep winning these games. ⁓ things will get messy. And Andrew, TCU didn't help us out a single bit on Saturday. And I know we've all been talking for a couple of weeks now about like TCU, like they could do it, they could help us out. And they still could with the rest of their games this season. But Andrew, you've been the one championing TCU.
and they let us down and I feel like I have to hold you personally responsible for that one.
Andrew Hayslett (21:55)
I thought Josh Hoover was better than he was, I guess. Or maybe the rest of team's not good enough. I wasn't trying to stay up to watch that BYUtcu game last night. I like sleep in.
David Howman (21:59)
You
You didn't miss much.
was very one-sided.
Andrew Hayslett (22:10)
Yeah.
David Howman (22:12)
There was a brief
moment where TCU got a field goal and they were down 14 in the third quarter. And I thought, all right, they get one stop, like could be in it. And then BYU scored 10 unanswered. And I was like, yeah, there goes that.
Tom Hardon (22:28)
well being be why you did that a couple weeks ago to iowa state as well iowa state got closed and i think actually had the lead at one point in the third quarter and then byu just found the accelerator and pulled away
David Howman (22:32)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah, well, mean, it's, it does end up being Texas Tech and BYU in the Big 12 title game, obviously we'll all be upset as people who take joy in good things happening to the Sun Devils. But I also think just on a football level, that would be a good game, that would be a fun game. mean, BYU kind of came out of nowhere. I know they were really good last year, but I think all of us had muted expectations given.
The fact that Jake Retzloff left the program in the summer after the spring portal window had closed. The fact that they have a freshman quarterback there in Baer-Bachmeyer and that they've come this far. And then obviously Texas Tech is like, you know, they've got more money on their side than most professional football teams do at this point. ⁓ Which I don't have an issue with that. That's where we're at in college football now.
But they're putting the money to good use and they're getting players and they're making a case for why. They have Cody Campbell who's bankrolling their team. They're making a case for why ASU should try to find our own Cody Campbell. I don't know who it's gonna be. Maybe the four of us can pool our money together and get one 100th of what he's got.
Tom Hardon (24:02)
Let's do it. The multi donors.
Austen Bundy (24:04)
Worthy investment.
David Howman (24:07)
Yeah. Well, and that's a good segue too into the other real talking point that came out of this win over West Virginia too was in the post game. ⁓ Kenny Dillingham was talking about. So there's backstory to it. He had gone on a radio show on, I think it was Friday, and he made reference to something along the lines of
you know, our NIL isn't what it needs to be. Like we don't have the resources that we have, things like that. And whereas Graham Racini, the AD had also previously said that they have the money to make sure that if Sam Levitt decides to come back for another year of college football, he's not going anywhere else. He's staying put in Tempe. And so there was this brief moment of, the AD is saying one thing, the head coach is saying another thing. What's going on there?
And of course, there's still all these rumors about he might take this job or that job or whatever. ⁓ Well, then after the game, said, goes, Graham was right. He pulled me into a meeting with with our admin and people who represent ⁓ University President Michael Crow. And they made it very clear that they are all in on football, that they are committed to giving us the resources we need to be a top team.
and that they are pushing all of their chips into the table to support winning football here in Tempe. ⁓ And that's, I think that's significant. think, especially with the context of literally a couple of days prior, he was saying, yeah, we don't have the resources. And then he goes and says, I have every bit of confidence that they're gonna do whatever it takes for us to compete at the level.
of a Texas Tech, because he was primarily saying within the scope of competing in the Big 12, which right now is Texas Tech. I got very excited about that. He also had a funny moment where he kind of chided one of the beat writers for jokingly asking him if he's still leaving. And he was like, I'm never leaving. I was never going to leave. ⁓ Like, this is home. I'm happy here. But I have to push.
to make sure that we have the resources that we can do it at this level. So I think that was the biggest win for ASU this weekend was just getting that kind of declaration from their head coach.
Tom Hardon (26:39)
Yeah, absolutely. Just the knowledge that he is fully investing and doubling down on his personal investment into the team, into the university, it puts to rest a lot of the noise that is circulating all throughout the fan base.
David Howman (26:57)
Yeah, and it was also funny because at the, I think it was the halftime interview, or no, think it was going into the fourth quarter because they had the injury to, I think it was Rodney Bemich, and they asked Kenny Dillingham on the field in the interview, they said, how, like, is he going to be okay? Because it looked really...
serious and scary for a moment. Of course, he got up and he was like jumping up and down with his teammates, which is just a crazy vibe shift from bringing out the stretcher and then they're all jumping around with each other. ⁓ But Kenny Dillingham even said, he said, ⁓ we have the Mayo Clinic as our medical team. And I was like, first of all, was like, that's cool. Because they are the best of the best. ⁓ But it was...
I didn't expect a Mayo Clinic name drop in the middle of a football game. And so then that paired with what Kenny was saying afterwards and also thinking back on like since becoming AD, Graham Racini has always talked up like corporate partnerships as being the path to supporting ASU athletics, specifically football. And so was like, tell me more, tell me more Kenneth. What is going on here? ⁓
So that was interesting in reflecting on things. of course, for those who are not watching too, I'm drinking my coffee out of my ASU coffee mug brought to you by their Starbucks corporate partnership too. For the record, it's not Starbucks coffee, I would never, but ⁓ it goes back to the same mentality of how do we get money in here? And Tom is flashing the same, not the same cup.
but also at ASU Starbucks.
Tom Hardon (28:49)
The campus collection Arizona State mug.
David Howman (28:51)
Yeah, the cooler design,
mine is a little bit more sleek.
Tom Hardon (28:57)
Yours is travel ⁓ optimized.
David Howman (29:01)
Travel optimized, I like that. For all the travel I do.
But anyway, those were my thoughts was ⁓ there's things going on behind the scenes here and that's really, really exciting, especially, you know, when there are all these open jobs and I don't know if when he says that they're pushing their chips to the middle of the table, is it a contract extension? Is it raises for their assistant coaches? Is it? ⁓
hiring a GM, ASU is one of the few Power4 programs right now that doesn't have a general manager, which is a huge, huge help as far as like streamlining recruiting operations, things like that. ⁓ Is it as simple as NIL, getting more money into the hands of players to bring them here? ⁓ Is it investing in the actual like physical structures? Like I know they're doing some renovations to... ⁓
to the football stadium, is it more than that? Like, I don't know what any of this is, if it's all of the above, what it is. ⁓ I think you could probably pick any of those out of a hat and it's a good start. But it's exciting that things seem to be moving in that direction.
Tom Hardon (30:20)
We're talking about a contract extension and correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't coach going hands contract essentially amount to a 10 year contract starts at a base of five years with a rolling five year extension that can be added on. I had to be approved by the Board of Regents, but but the base five years can be extended to a total of 10 years under the current contract.
David Howman (30:45)
Again, this is a lot of math, but I think that sounds about right.
Austen Bundy (30:47)
Thanks.
Tom Hardon (30:50)
and and i there is a there is various uh... bonuses and we we we all heard about the bonuses for uh... for the the big twelve championship and confident that we were season conference championship that he don't to know it basically gave us bonus to to the football staffers instead of and said he has gone so that you know just looking back to that from last year i got it even shows his investment into the program
what is contractually his, he's investing it into the program.
Austen Bundy (31:23)
I think he essentially had a prototype for what Nebraska eventually gave Matt Ruhl with the extra. Matt Ruhl's contract has a like a $1 million salary bump each year. He gets them to the college football playoff. And I feel like that's a good model for coaches that you like, if you're serious about trying to get
to the college football player or your serious about winning championships. I think it's a good model to keep these guys around you so they don't jump ship for any of the bigger jobs. ⁓ I think Kenny's got a good contract that entices him to stick around, but I think that type of incentive, I think, is something that maybe they think about the next time they're negotiating anything on that front.
Tom Hardon (32:08)
So I'm looking at I'm looking at doing hands contract details right now. The contract that was signed going into the season was five years through the end of the 2029 season, but does have a pathway to be a 10 year contract through the 2034 season.
David Howman (32:09)
Yeah.
So he's staying.
Tom Hardon (32:26)
Basically, yeah.
David Howman (32:28)
Yeah, which always always seemed like the where we were going with this to was I mean, he said in his very first press conference as coach like I'm home like this is where he's always wanted to be. He's gotten here very fast for a coach and he's doing it and he's having success and it seems like and I felt this way for a while now is the only way that he leaves.
Andrew Hayslett (32:50)
Yeah.
David Howman (32:55)
you know, outside of being fired for, you know, falling apart, right? ⁓ Which also doesn't seem likely. But the only way that he leaves on his decision is if it gets to a point where the resources are just not there. it feel if it feels like because right now Kenny is doing a lot. He's put a lot on his shoulders. The fact that there isn't a GM. I know they have other other people like in the front office kind of area and they're helping with
the recruiting, they're helping with the scouting, things like that. But Kenny is heavily involved in that too. He also, know he said all season and especially the last couple of weeks, he's been heavily involved in special teams. ⁓ He's, even though he doesn't call offensive plays, he's still involved in offense because that's just his background. He said in the past, occasionally he'll call plays on defense when in big moments where he says, hey, I want a blitz here. I want man coverage here. ⁓
he's got his hand in a little bit of everything right now. And that's awesome that you have a coach with the energy to do that, especially when you're, you know, as a palate cleanser from a coach who was by all accounts, completely checked out every single detail of football. ⁓ He who will not be named, but ⁓ eventually that's not going to be sustainable. And you're competing in a conference.
where I Texas Tech has, I mean, obviously they have, know, kagillions of dollars, but they also have a GM who has deep connections all throughout the state of Texas, and they run a multi-million dollar enterprise that Joey McQuire hardly even touches at this point. Like he obviously is the figurehead and he's kind of the closer when it comes to recruiting, but he's primarily focused on the football aspect of things.
Similarly at BYU and they're having a lot of success obviously they're not the NIL spenders of Texas Tech but they do have a pretty good amount of resources behind them. BYU has always been heavily invested in their football program. Kalani Satake is a very well known figure in that program. They have a very clearly established recruiting footprint. ⁓ He's not going around and doing all the things that Kenny Dalicamp's doing. ⁓
Tom Hardon (35:07)
So thank
David Howman (35:19)
You need to have that kind of structure set up eventually. It's cool that Kenny Dillingham can do it all on himself right now. Five years from now? I mean, especially with some of these close games, that kind of stuff ages you. And I know he's got the energy now, five years from now. It's like when you see pictures of Barack Obama when he first got into office. And then...
eight years later and it's like, good God, that aged him so much. And football, ⁓ you know, I don't want to, it's not a harder job, I guess, but it ages you probably faster because it's, it's more, ⁓ it's stressful 100 % of the time, especially when you're at ASU. So ⁓ they need that infrastructure and they need that support for Kenny.
Andrew Hayslett (36:09)
I want to go back to the first point you brought up David. This is home for Kenny Dillingham. Home is where the heart is. And when you're at home, it would take a lot to get Kenny Dillingham to leave. I looked at all the openings. The only one I thought he could potentially take is Auburn because he has ties there. But...
Even knowing that I said, okay, what would it have to take? And I couldn't figure that answer out. Just there's so many things in play. He's starting to have his own family now and raise his kid. And I know he wouldn't want to a kid across the country regardless of what that kid's age is. But still that's when you're.
building something, a program and a family, you don't want to leave it.
Austen Bundy (37:07)
Andrew's getting all Hallmarky on us here. Home is where the heart is. Arizona State is the Olive Garden of the Big 12. When you're here, you're family.
David Howman (37:12)
Yes.
Tom Hardon (37:15)
Yes.
David Howman (37:17)
Hey, I love the olive garden, so I dig that comparison.
Tom Hardon (37:17)
So the conclusion of my speech is
David Howman (37:22)
But ⁓ yeah, and Andrew, to your point, all of the jobs that are open right now, like you said, mean, Auburn, he was there, but he was also there for one season. He didn't even have a full 12 months there. It's not like there was a strong connection to Auburn. And of course, he was there under Gus Malzahn, who they fired, and they've been horrible ever since. And then people have said, well, if Florida State opens up.
He could go to Florida State because he was there, but also they'd be firing Mike Norvell, who's one of his mentors as well. Like, is he going to go to the school that just fired a guy that taught him everything he knows? Probably not. ⁓ I felt when when back when the Arkansas job first opened up and there was a lot of buzz about them trying to get Rhett Lashley out of SMU. That's the one that I was concerned about if SMU opens up because they are a program that has that kind of those Texas tech level resources.
And they're also situated right in Dallas, where Kenny Dillingham has built a significant recruiting footprint all throughout Texas, but especially in the North Texas area. ⁓ And so that's one where I felt like if he's ever open to leaving, it would be for an SMU type job, one where they have that level of resources already in place and they're in a recruiting footprint he already has well established. But Rhett Lashley signed his contract extension because
for that same reason, he wants to stay there, he's got a lot of good things going there, ⁓ that job's not opening up and if Kenny Dillingham can get those same type of resources going for football that maybe not on the same level as SMU but similarly get that support, get that infrastructure, there's no reason that he would ever even need to consider leaving regardless of the kind of job that comes open. ⁓
Austen Bundy (39:14)
Well,
we know he's not taking the Virginia Tech job, at least.
David Howman (39:17)
Yeah. For several reasons. But yeah, it was wins all around for ASU football. Obviously, you know, they won the actual game. Jeff Sims looks good. Vibes are feeling good. Kenny's staying. All that's went up to get them back to the Big 12 title game. They're still not great, but they're definitely heading in the right direction. But there were also other sports that played this week for ASU and they
most of them won. know, men's basketball played against Gonzaga. Who here watched that game out of curiosity?
Tom Hardon (39:53)
I watched a little bit of the first half and I was obviously focused on hockey primarily, but I did flip it on after the hockey game and didn't last very long into the game. Then I woke up and saw the final score and what it was and really not all that surprised to see the final.
Austen Bundy (40:19)
They kept it closer than I thought it was gonna be.
David Howman (40:21)
They did. It was not a complete blowout. was at one point in the first half, they were actually up by like seven or eight. And then they just, I think it was like four or five minutes straight where they didn't make a single shot and Gonzaga went on a run. ⁓
Tom Hardon (40:40)
I think it was
during that Gonzaga run when I stopped paying attention. I'll take the blame for that one. I stopped watching and they fell apart. So sorry guys. We have it on record.
David Howman (40:42)
Bye.
Yeah.
So it's all Tom's fault. But I mean, it also felt like
it felt like ⁓ like vintage non-conference Bobby Hurley that was of I mean, we see this every year. They play well in the non-conference. Even when they lose, they look competitive ish against really great teams like Gonzaga. I mean, last year they played Gonzaga and they lost by I think eight and and then later they went on to beat St. Mary's and they're, you know.
If it wasn't for Gonzaga being in the same conference, St. Mary's would be the program, the mid-major that everybody talks about. And they beat them and it was like, we had a team. then Big 12 play hit like a ton of bricks. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. So ⁓ it does look like a fun team though. I mean, they have some guys who can do some interesting things. Mo Odom is a fun point guard to watch play. He's got the offense.
Tom Hardon (41:34)
We've got drop down in elevator shaft.
David Howman (41:48)
playing a little bit more efficiently than it has in previous years. A few different players that are exciting. ⁓ I don't think it's gonna be a lot as far as wins this year, but it'll be fun to watch.
Tom Hardon (42:03)
I was at the opener last week against Southern Utah, and I was impressed with the way that Mo Odom really just captains the offense coming out of the back court. And he can direct the team and just get guys in position on the floor and really is a great floor general from a
from the little bit that I saw last Tuesday. then D up, down low, just an absolute tank down low. And then we saw in the second game against Utah Tech shooting from the outside. You don't see a big guy popping up threes like that all that often. it's different style to his game than what I think a lot of, what most fans are used to and seeing from a big,
a big center and there's a lot of development to be had there and it's an exciting prospect.
David Howman (43:03)
Yeah, no, D-Up is exciting to watch. He has, ⁓ transfer to Kansas written all over him. which is...
Tom Hardon (43:13)
We don't need
that negativity.
David Howman (43:16)
I mean,
it may not be Kansas, but it'll be somewhere else. ⁓ But there's definitely some reasons to watch men's basketball. I think there's plenty of reasons to watch women's basketball too. This team, of course, we're recording this Sunday. They play on Sunday. So I don't know what they're going to be doing against Santa Clara by the time that you're listening to us, but they did beat San Diego.
on Friday, I think it was Friday. ⁓ They're three, you when they beat San Diego two, Molly Miller got her 300th career win. ⁓ She has the third highest winning percentage of any active women's basketball coach after Gina Oriyama at UConn and Kim Mulkey at Baylor and ⁓ they're sorry, LSU now. ⁓ right, she's at LSU now.
Andrew Hayslett (44:14)
Thanks, Dr. Wright.
Tom Hardon (44:14)
I so.
David Howman (44:15)
Yeah, she she
was at Baylor. She went to LSU. ⁓ Either way, great, great ⁓ company for Molly Miller to be in. That's first with her time at her alma mater, Drury College, and then at Grand Canyon and now at ASU where she got her 300th win. This team is just fun to watch. They against San Diego, they tied the program record for most three pointers made in a single game. ⁓ Before that, I mean, in their season opener, they
I think they shot like 15 % from three, like they were not good behind the arc, but they also just played a really physical, energetic style of defense. Like they just find ways to win in a bunch of different ways. They're really, really exciting to watch. It's a different style of play every game. They're multifaceted in that regard. And if you haven't watched them by now, change that, turn on the TV, watch them.
⁓ I don't know what things are going to be like once they get to Big 12 play again. It's a stacked conference. It's the first year for the Molly Miller era, but ⁓ they're playing an exciting brand of basketball. ⁓ So definitely something to be watching there. And then of course we have our hockey program and we talked up this weekend trip to North Dakota being the turning point. Tom wasn't saying, but he was saying, well, what is he saying now?
Tom Hardon (45:42)
You know, I'm still not saying, but I'm still saying this is playing out exactly the same way as ASU's results in the 24-25 season. You're 12 games into the season, four, seven, and one. And you've got, you know, they have ⁓ an important series against highly ranked Denver coming up next this coming weekend.
David Howman (45:45)
You
Tom Hardon (46:10)
Denver is another top 20 team in the USHO polls. Not undefeated like they were last season when ASU went up and swept, but still a series that is, you have to sweep at home. That's basically the rule of these two game series. Sweep at home and get splits on the road that will set ASU up the best way possible in the standings.
And that's exactly what happened last weekend at Ralph Engelstad Arena. After a little bit of a humbling first game on Friday night losing 5-2 ⁓ against the talented freshman and Jan Spoonar in net for the Fighting Pots, ASU did see a familiar face in Gibson-Homer in net last night. Only put up 15 shots on goal, which is a season low, scored, got three goals on Homer plus the empty netter.
late in the third period to secure the 4-2 win. this team is playing decently well. There's still lot of room for improvement, but both games did see the power play, conversion of the power play, one for one on Friday, one for three last night. And the percentage is getting there, up to 23%.
power play so far this season and I'm excited to see what ⁓ the next series against Denver brings.
Andrew Hayslett (47:47)
Yeah I am too. Last night's game just surprised me in that the fact that you only got 15 shots compared to North Dakota's 41, getting out shot that much and still finding a way to win is impressive. Like you said Tom, there needs to be a lot that gets cleaned up.
Shooting right now is they're not getting a lot of pucks on net compared to opponents in particular Which I don't know if it's the defense Not playing good enough so that the offense can get shots because last night to me it felt like North Dakota at the time of the possession in the ozone North Dakota would have dominated that if that was a stat that to me
They felt like they always had the puck, had control, pounding Arizona State. But when Arizona State got their chances, they converted on a good amount, which is great to see, but converting at that amount is unsustainable, I think. And then face-offs to last night weren't particularly good compared to what we've been seeing this season. Just...
couple things in particular that I'm looking at to see if they can improve on.
Tom Hardon (49:07)
And Connor Hasley was the star of the game in net for the Sun Devils. He had a great bounce back after a couple of rough games and he got his first start since the ⁓ Miami series after
similar bond at both games against Colorado College last weekend plus Friday and you like seeing has little was was brought in for his summer play at Bentley and he's gotten off to a slow start the season but he looked like he was finding his legs there in the crease and made the big saves that that Arizona State needed also got to see Colin Potter get his second goal of the season. His first goal came on Halloween night on an empty netter late in the game against Miami. This was his first
his first true role of the season and while he hasn't necessarily been showing up on the stat sheet as much as most fans would expect for a first-round draft pick he's showing up in ways that are that that never will be seen on the stat sheet I saw the ⁓
on the play on Friday night where I work out small and got the power play goal. Colin drew three North Dakota defenders away into the low slot and that opened up small and down on the down the goal line freedom. He was wide open, had a wide open net as Spooner was following the play with Potter and just a great great awareness by Colin to get the puck to his open man and bury that bury that goal for on the power play.
Andrew Hayslett (50:39)
Yeah, I've been playing well.
David Howman (50:39)
Now, ⁓
Andrew, Tom said on the last episode, was talking it up like this is where Sandoval Hockey is going to hit their stride and become a major, major contender. But he also, was hedging, he was like, I don't want to say it, but I'm just saying. Andrew, you've made some bolder predictions ⁓ on this show. Of course, you famously guaranteed ASU football was winning the national championship.
⁓ what were the other ones? I feel like there was something else.
Andrew Hayslett (51:13)
I don't know. I forget that.
David Howman (51:18)
But
anyway, are you ready? I'll roll back the tape and find them all. But are you ready to make any bold declarations about the hockey team at this point? Like Tom, because Tom was a coward and he didn't want to say anything. But are you brave?
Andrew Hayslett (51:34)
No, I'm...
I've seen this team enough to say...
They're close to being something, but there's too many holes. Something I've failed to mention is that to traditionally defensive and don't score as many goals as forwards do, we haven't had a defenseman support a goal at all this season, which
I broaden Justin Kipke, the Minnesota wild pick to possibly be an offensive guy. Lincoln Keene, the 17 year old from the US development program. He's, it looks like he's gonna be more of a defensive guy. I don't know if you feel the same way, Tom, but I feel like in a few years he's gonna be what Ty Mercheson was.
Tom Hardon (52:24)
I absolutely agree with that. has a huge frame. He's 6'3", about 205 pounds. He's got the, he's got great stick work to work in the defensive zone and disrupt opposing offenses. He just needs a lot of fine tuning. He is a young kid. You brought up he's 17 years old. There's a lot of raw parts to his game that will be developed over, you know.
over the first year of his freshman men ultimately into his sophomore season as well. And he will be draft eligible this year for the 2026 ⁓ NHL draft. He is ranked in the top 100 prospects in multiple publications for draft eligible players. So it'll be interesting to see how he lives up to that and how he further develops this season.
Austen Bundy (53:11)
you
Andrew Hayslett (53:12)
Yeah, and then just a couple other guys on the defensive side that they brought in. They brought in two left-handed shots in Austin, Zemlak and Richard Baron. Zemlak hasn't played much this year and Richard Baron's just kind of been on the ice, just hasn't really...
done anything for me. don't know about you Tom, but he's, I think a player of powers wants to break out and he just hasn't yet.
Tom Hardon (53:39)
Yeah, you bring up Justin Kipty who I am waiting to see how he can develop on. He has put out a lot on the power play on the second unit. We've been seeing a lot of 5-4 top power play units for the Sun Devils in the last few games. And Kipty, an offensive minded defenseman, gets put out there on the second unit a lot. But you're exactly right on Richard Baron. He's a...
He's showing flashes of promise, the issue for this entire team is that there's been rare instances where they have played a complete game. Last night was really the second full effort that I've seen out of the Sun Devils this season, the first being the ⁓ win against Alaska in the Icebreaker Championship game. Aside from those games, it's been very sporadic, very lightning in a bottle for...
for twenty twenty or thirty minutes of the game but not really being able to close out the deal or just other opponents kind of shooting themselves in the foot like we saw with Colorado College giving up a three goal lead and playing to its high last Friday.
Andrew Hayslett (54:52)
Yeah, even still with last night's game, it kind of felt like lightning in a bottle to me just getting outshot that much. just... Like, I want to be confident, but I'm also not yet there.
Tom Hardon (55:06)
You made the point in your recap of last night's game, the 36 combined shots for the entire weekend. Arizona State has put up 36 shots in five different games this season. seeing the offense dry up like that is a little bit, is definitely concerning. But I am liking the chances going up against Denver. Historically,
Air coach powers does get his teams to play up to. ⁓ Play up to their opponents and conversely you see them played down to opponents. He saw the underestimation of Augustana a weeks ago for the the last series before conference play opened. I think that you're going to see this team play up and play tough against Denver, but can they do it for both games like they did last season? ⁓
on the road we will certainly see.
Andrew Hayslett (56:06)
To piggyback off that, feel like he gets his team to play up in those in-season tournaments as well. saw two years ago they beat Cornell in a one at the end in the middle of the year. And then last two years they've won the Desert Hockey Classic for the first two years and two times in program history. And now they just beat in the icebreaker.
Alaska for that championship. I do agree that he is able to get his team playing up to the level of competition, but sometimes that doesn't happen when he plays lesser opponents.
David Howman (56:52)
Well, Austin, ⁓ Andrew completely sidesteps my ploy to get him to make another bold prediction, which I mean, I appreciate the earnest analysis of the team, of course. ⁓ But we got to end on something explosive. So Austin, give me a bold prediction. Doesn't have to be hockey, can be any sport. Keep it ASU, of course. We don't want to hear about Bill Belichick coaching the Giants.
But give me something, something bold that we can end the show on, something that we can rewind and pull it up again and haunt you just like we're doing with Andrew and his national championship call.
Austen Bundy (57:35)
Okay, um, I'm debating whether or not I want to stick to my My role as the pessimist or should end up with a little help here
David Howman (57:44)
Well don't end it on a down note.
Andrew Hayslett (57:50)
while you're...
David Howman (57:50)
These are going good. Vibes are positive. Basketball only lost to Gonzaga by 15 or whatever.
Andrew Hayslett (57:57)
While you're thinking Austin, have some breaking news for Arizona State's game time announcement for Colorado. It will be 6 p.m. Arizona time on ESPN2.
Tom Hardon (58:07)
Yeah.
Andrew Hayslett (58:14)
that plays into your prediction or not Austin, but the floor is yours.
David Howman (58:19)
Even if it doesn't, he bought you a few extra seconds to think of one. So it better be good.
Austen Bundy (58:22)
Yeah.
I'll go hopeful here and I'll still stick with the hockey topic. I'll send the Sun Devils to St. Paul. I'll send us to the Frozen Face-Off. I'll say that ⁓ we go on enough of a run, we win enough conference games to insert ourselves back into the conversation, and I think we just barely get in in the last weekend or so.
Tom Hardon (58:47)
Well, keep in mind that the frozen face off is no longer an event this year. The conference tournament is all on campus sites. Yep. Last year was the final frozen face off. but I think what you're saying is Arizona State will be in the top four in the conference. Is that a reasonable?
Austen Bundy (58:57)
wow, really?
David Howman (59:01)
Well that didn't age well for Austin.
That's what I
heard.
Austen Bundy (59:11)
Yes, that's what I'm saying. I'm saying we finish fourth exactly.
David Howman (59:15)
⁓ I heard top four and not two, three, or four. That's what I heard. I know you guys all heard it as well. ⁓ Yeah, you heard it here first, ASU first, from Austin Bundy. And ⁓ we're gonna wrap up our show on that high note because, again, vibes are feeling good and we're gonna keep those vibes feeling good into the next week. ⁓ Yeah.
Tom Hardon (59:30)
I'm going.
one.
David real quick before we do
sign off, I'm going to put out a prediction specifically just for this weekend. Arizona State, I'm going to say they will claim five out of six points against Denver this weekend. One regulation win, one overtime win.
and I'm picking my breakout player of the weekend to be Sam Alfano. He's young freshman. He's got that score in touch. We've seen him put up two goals, three assists for five points this season, but I think we're going to see him really break out in a big way. looking at three goals out of him over the weekend.
David Howman (1:00:17)
All right, so we got two bold predictions, one of which immediately expired because the frozen face-off isn't a thing anymore. But I still like the spirit, Austin, and a bold prediction that will come true very, very soon. So thank you, Austin. Thank you, Tom. Thank you, Andrew. ⁓ Andrew's got another one.
Andrew Hayslett (1:00:34)
I'll jump in on this too.
Austen Bundy (1:00:37)
haha
Andrew Hayslett (1:00:41)
is that volleyball has four final Big 12 games against some, I don't want to say bad, but ⁓ opponents that are statistically not good, including the last ranked, I believe, team in Houston. ASU needs to win two of the four of those to get the Big 12 title. There's no tournament, just for the record.
So I'm going to say volleyball will win the big 12 championship. Not necessarily bold prediction, but and they'll get four out of four wins too.
David Howman (1:01:18)
I liked it, I like it. Well, in the spirit of that, I'm gonna give one more. I'm gonna go back to football. I'm gonna say, not only does ASU win out the rest of the regular season, all the tiebreakers fall their way. They get to the Big 12 title game. They beat Texas Tech for the second time this year to win the Big 12. They get to the college football playoff where they face an Ole Miss team that has just gotten a big.
a big boon for them in Lane Kiffin agreeing to a multi-year extension to stay put, not going to Florida or LSU. And right after that, with all their positive vibes, Jeff Simms beats them in the college football playoff to advance to the next round. And not only that, but once he does it, he mimics the egg bowl peeing dog celebration from several years ago. Just to rub it in. that's...
Tom Hardon (1:02:01)
Yeah.
Thank
David Howman (1:02:13)
That's my bold prediction. We've all got some things out there. And we'll be remembering all of these for each of our episodes here at Echo from the Buttes. For Awesome Bunny, for Andrew Hazlett, for Tom Harden, I'm David Hellman. Saying as always, give them hell, devils.