Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
The Grateful for Hospitality Podcast features candid conversations with founders, operators, and experts shaping the sector. Practical insights, honest stories and ideas to make you think.
Americans seem to have this like deep seated feeling that it is their God given right to tip. I kinda like the structure of service charge personally. Mhmm. I think it makes a ton of sense because you're you're sort of baking into the final bill the entirety of the experience. Services, did you get the things to the people correctly on time and in in in the manner in which it was meant to happen?
Steven:Mhmm. Hospitality is, what can I do to make this great for you today?
Mason:Yeah.
Steven:How can I make your day just that little bit better?
Mason:Where do you think hospitality is going? What's the future life hospitality for you? Hey, Steve. Thanks for thanks for joining. I appreciate you making the journey over over the pond to get here.
Mason:How long did it take to get here? How long was the flight?
Steven:Only about nine hours.
Mason:Right. Okay. Fine. Fine. So, you're not supposed to be asleep now.
Mason:But, look, I I appreciate you coming on. Grateful for Hospitality. I think just just for your own benefit and people that are listening, we really wanted to start this podcast to give people guilt free takeaways from what the hospitality industry is like from people of all walks of life. I know you're about to give yourself a quick intro on your meandering story into hospitality, talking about the industry, where it's going, but also then just getting a good conversation about the good, the bad, the ugly, and anything between. So I appreciate you coming on.
Mason:Thank you. So I guess for people watching, can you give a quick overview of your story from start to today?
Steven:Yeah. No. It's always good to start at the beginning. Right? It's it's a pleasure to be here, Mason.
Steven:It's, you know, been coming in and out of The UK, both for for school and other things most of my life at this point, and I'm half English and three quarters Irish, which is more than a 100% obviously, but, you know, this is this is like, this is heritage home, home for me on that side, so it's always fun to to pop over. Grew up in The United States in Seattle, Washington, Northwest Corner, so exact same weather as London today. Yeah. A little a little bit of drizzly rain and gray skies. And started my career in a bank, in an investment bank, as you said, I was a computer science and econ undergraduate.
Steven:Studied at the University of London for for a bit, and then came out, did a bank banking stint, was a venture capitalist for a while, all tech and telecom.
Mason:Earlier
Steven:stages, kind of entrepreneurial by nature, tried to start a few businesses in college that, you know, were my first few failures, if you will. Impulsive failures. Yeah. You know what, failure actually matters. Yeah.
Steven:You learn a lot more from your mistakes than you do from your wins. And then, went to went to business school and came out and made the obvious choice of starting a restaurant. So, started a restaurant in 2011, 2012, grew it to about eight eight locations, sold that to a larger restaurant group called Ethan Stoll Restaurants in Seattle and was the president of that for the best years, the pandemic years. Mhmm. So had a heck of a run, was a lot of fun, built a bunch of restaurants
Mason:Mhmm.
Steven:And actually became a customer of the business I now lead. Yeah. And so, I kinda came to to Tip House via unique angle. And what I like to say now is none of my career makes any sense
Mason:Yeah. Until now. That's why I thought it'd be useful like Yeah. I guess explaining it because you've had such a weird and wonderful ride to get to where you are today, and it's not the conventional route. I feel like people that end up in hospitality, it's never a conventional route, right?
Mason:Everyone's coming through their own Yep. Certain ways. They've either fallen into it or been really intentional, so
Steven:Yeah. No, it's a it's a I I love the hospitality industry and I love being able to serve it from this side of the, you know, the kind of the vendor side and and supporting the teams and the people with that like deep core understanding of the core problems they face day to day, and the fighters are trying to put out constantly, and how do you take work off their plate? How do you get them more money? How do you do it faster? Those kinds of things are really fun to help support.
Steven:And I don't miss the 10PM, the kitchen caught fire on a Friday phone calls anymore. So that's that's nice to
Mason:have But we still get it as supplies, right?
Steven:Yeah. Yeah. No, you still hear about it, that's So for at the end of the day, the the beauty of sort of my journey has been, I've just kept doing things I was curious about. Mhmm. Just kept following my curiosity one one step at a time, and like I said, now my career seems to make sense because all the things I used I did to get to this point
Mason:Mhmm.
Steven:Are things that are sort of critical for who we are as a company at Tip House and and where we're going.
Mason:Yeah. Definitely. Definitely. It's funny you said all the conventional thing to do when you left college to start a hospitality business. What made you go from banking, finance, telecoms, then completely flipping the lid?
Mason:If you look at it on paper to like complete opposite industries, right?
Steven:Yeah. No. Everyone thought I was crazy and they were correct. I was not I was not probably in my right mind in some ways. No, I I It came back to that curiosity question.
Steven:I was passionate about a handful of US fast casual brands. Mhmm. Chipotle, Noodles and Company, Panera were kind of hitting their stride right around this time. And one of my business school friends just asked a simple question, why isn't there a good Asian version of Chipotle? Mhmm.
Steven:I spent the two years at b school, including my my summer in the middle. I worked at a fast casual chain down in Boston called Beloco. And it was a great I I fell in love with the industry, fell in love with the people. I saw how much they cared and how much they worked and I saw an opportunity to build a restaurant and eventually a restaurant, you know, business and growing company where you could create space and opportunity to show that you could treat people better, you could pay them more, you could give them healthcare benefits and you can make a go of it without having to, you know, harm the people that were working so hard every day to just put out great products and feel good about what they did. So that was that was the impetus that drove me in, it was people of the the hospitality industry, and fell in love with it, and Never looked back.
Steven:Never looked back. Yeah. It's a it's a merry band of pirates. Yeah. You know, we're just you're just swashbuckling your way through through a service sometimes, but that's the that's the fun of it.
Mason:Yeah, definitely. It's interesting to look at, like, UK hospitality versus US hospitality. Obviously, different sides of the pond, but True. At its heart, hospitality is the same thing no matter where you go, especially, you know, in Western society. It's what what would you say, I think, from spending time at school over here Mhmm.
Mason:You know, in your sort of late teens, early twenties, obviously, you're back and forth now. We last met in October. Yep. Going into restaurants here versus in The US, what would you say, like, the main differences are or the similarities as well across across the board?
Steven:Yeah. I mean, I I think the the the core is always it, you know, starts with like the people. Right? And and the creating experiences. I think that at the end of the day is something both sides do well.
Steven:Yeah. Right? Like it's like, you know, the the curation, in particular I'm think thinking about more of the full service Mhmm. Category around this, you know, fast casual and the the counter service, also very similar. Yeah.
Steven:You know, kind of the in and out experience and whatnot. I mean, I lived on Pridemage and Wagamama when I was in uni. But the the that, like
Mason:When when was that? Sorry to interrupt. Like, what years?
Steven:Yeah. I I was here the 1998, 1999 Right. School year.
Mason:Right.
Steven:So way before you were born. Yeah.
Mason:What were what were like the big up and coming brands then when you were there? You said obviously, Wagamama, were there any others that like stuck in your mind?
Steven:Yeah. So the desire to put out great product Mhmm. And do it in such a way that it was approachable and affordable
Mason:Mhmm.
Steven:I really felt that the The UK and London was doing a better job of that than back in The US. Right. And then on the flip side, I think the level of attention to detail sometimes
Mason:Mhmm.
Steven:Within a full service environment, sometimes is a little higher in different full service restaurants. And the team based dynamics of the spaces, like for example, you think of the front of house, back of house dynamics.
Mason:Yeah.
Steven:Right? In The US, that was a huge divide for you all of hospitality's history. Mhmm. And about fifteen years ago, the rules changed and you could create tip pools. Mhmm.
Steven:And that allowed the front of house and back of house to actually feel like one team because they're actually being compensated together from the the tips that are coming in.
Mason:Mhmm.
Steven:It's not just, you know, servers get tips and cooks get wage. Yeah. So it changed that dynamic pretty significantly on on that side, and it's been interesting to to watch the service charge culture develop.
Mason:Because it's creeping in The US as well, isn't it? It's like It is a lot. It's now becoming quite it's common commonplace, especially in bigger cities. I mean, definitely throughout The UK, it's it's becoming more prevalent than it ever has been. Mhmm.
Mason:You know, you got service charge when you go to restaurants now most most the way through the country Yep. In hotels, on hotel rooms, and it's trying to creep its way into more areas of hospitality. Yep. But, obviously, it's it's the careful balance of what am I exactly paying for here if I'm just coming in and I'm it's a transactional experience versus somewhere somewhere where you're actually having hospitality. Yeah.
Mason:And I think that's what sometimes gives tipping a bad rap. Mhmm. But just, I guess, for for me as well, to educate myself on the history, I guess, of The US tipping, what was it before then, so it was very strict rules of the back of house wouldn't get any tips, and front of house would get absolutely everything, and then it was cash, right?
Steven:Yep. So the I mean, the the the long and sordid history of tipping is for another podcast, and and another time, but The the Too
Mason:many interlude.
Steven:Yeah. Yeah. Fair enough. But the the the way it was working up until then was, and the the way the rules worked was, tips were the property of the person who received them. Was the way it was thought of.
Steven:And there was no no real ability to get tips or or kind of force. And there were sometimes people would have like, recommended Yeah. Like, you know, it's recommended you tip out, you know, 10% to your bus or what have you. But none of it was really in a seriously enforceable situation.
Mason:Yeah.
Steven:The shift to the tip pooling came from a a court ruling, and then later some some different administrative changes. Right. Within the the fed federal government. And that kicked off the basically, the creation of businesses like Tip House and and and others of us that are are chasing what what you guys are doing too over here. What's interesting is like, the the Americans seem to have this like deep seated, because it's been in our culture for over a hundred years.
Steven:Yeah. This deep seated feeling that it is their God given right to tip. Yeah. And decide how much the individual should get. And so service charge is actually a very controversial Mhmm.
Steven:Thing between customers and business owners in particular.
Mason:In The US. In The US. Right.
Steven:Yeah. Some cities are doing it faster and better than others, but typically they're places like Miami and other places where there's a significant external like immigrant population that is not really having a tip based culture that they're coming from or you know, super large like you know, Las Vegas and other places where there's lots of people that travel in from internationally. Yeah. What I find that'd be interested to hear kinda your take on it, but it seems like the acceptance of service charge in The UK is like, almost like, we don't wanna have to think about the tip. Just put it on my bill and I'm happy to pay it.
Steven:Mhmm. I don't wanna have this this like awkward, how much should I tip, how much should I tip, like I Like those conversations are not fun. Like Yeah. Especially when you've got the device right in front of you and you're like, I mean, am I gonna push 2% in front of the person? Like Yeah yeah yeah that is awkward as all get out.
Steven:And it's it's something we haven't quite gotten through in The US now that handheld devices at the table are significantly more used. Mhmm.
Mason:They've been
Steven:that way over here since I was coming over, you know, twenty five years ago.
Mason:So Yeah. It's I mean, I'll I'll talk about The US, then I'll come back to a guest service charge in The UK. But in The US, I found when I'd been recently I mean, it was a couple of years back, but I can imagine it's accelerated since then is that you have service charge on a bill, and then there's still the expected, you know, 20% on top as well as a tip on top of that. And then me as a consumer, you don't really know what the difference is between it. It can be quite confusing in some instances, and we we obviously everyone knows that tipping culture in The US is is huge.
Mason:Right? And I think, obviously, it's testament to the hard work of the people that that put their hours in and the blood, sweat, and tears into the industry. Right? And they want to work for their tips and sort of go down a bit rabbit hole on that in a second as to why we started Grateful through an experience over there. We're obviously both pro massively, massively pro tipping.
Mason:I think, obviously, in The US, having that split out and the expected tip on top of the service charge, whereas over here, it's like you've either got a service charge or you're paying a tip and it's it's completely discretionary at all in on in all instances. So I think that for people that are coming that aren't from The US could potentially confuse them. Mhmm. But I think it's just expected, you go into The US, you're gonna tip, it's gonna, you know, it's gonna be over and above your your bill. So I think it's an expected norm Yep.
Mason:Really.
Steven:And and one of the dynamics that's finally shifted is the service charge with the tip on top Mhmm. Percentage component.
Mason:Yeah.
Steven:People are not thinking of it as 15% service charge, 15%, 20% tip on top of that. Mhmm. It's sort of like, this is the expectation, this is helping take care of the team in the service charge side. Yeah. And the tip is for the exceptional and the over and above.
Steven:Yeah. Right? So it it's sort of sliding back to, I think, over the last next last couple years. More of that style, where it's a few percent, like more that would be left for great service. Yeah.
Steven:But you know the team's getting all of it
Mason:Mhmm.
Steven:If that's the way the business writes it on the receipts, you know, a 100% of this goes to the team, or you know, they they have to say what you're doing with the service charge in The US on on your bill. Mhmm. So that's, you know, one one dynamic that I think is helping shift it a little on on how that piece of it works, at least for us. But I think it, I I kinda like the structure of service charge personally. Mhmm.
Steven:I think it makes a ton of sense because you're you're sort of baking into the final bill Mhmm. The entirety of the experience. Yeah. And I like the idea that tips are the over and above. It's the it's that bit that little bit more for, like, wow, I really
Mason:You've gone above and beyond. You've Yeah. Really worked your butt off
Steven:to
Mason:Yeah. Able make this experience special for us. Right?
Steven:Exactly. So, like, know, previously, the expectation in The US was, like, you're gonna tip, call it 15%. Mhmm. 20 for great service, 10 for terrible. Right?
Steven:And so, like, like, there was this, like, mental model that a lot of people had around what a tip meant and the range, but it was always a tip.
Mason:Yeah. Right? Whereas over here, it's different. It's like, you're tipping if you're going over and above all. Historically, before service charge existed, was like, well, I'm not gonna tip.
Mason:I've I've not had a good experience. And it it varies massively from Totally. Everyone in The US and everyone over here Yeah. You know, two two separate nations, but also then people within as well. It's some people are, I'm never gonna tip, they don't agree with it.
Mason:And people are like, I really want to tip because that's just part of hospitality. Right?
Steven:Yeah. And and and you you mentioned earlier and and and that question of similarities as well is like, at the core of what we're talking about is that spirit of, like, deep spirit of hospitality and service. Like, being in service of others. And we can all feel it. Mhmm.
Steven:Like, when when you have somebody that's serving you, you can feel somebody who's doing it from a space from a mind space of hospitality and not just service. Yeah. Service is, did you get the things to the people correctly on time and in in in the manner in which it was meant to happen? Mhmm. Hospitality is, what can I do to make this great for you today?
Mason:Yeah.
Steven:How can I make your day just that little bit better?
Mason:Mhmm.
Steven:And for me, that that's what the restaurant industry very much became. It became a space where I could just like, get people out of their heads, get them out of their lives, give them an experience whether it was a quick lunch in the the fast casual chain I started or, you know, the engagement parties we would host at the full service restaurants I was the president of later in that part of my journey. Mhmm. That core of hospitality and so, service charge tip, however it comes together supporting that mentality, I think just creates, you know, more human connection and people feeling supported by, you know, others and creating great experiences for them.
Mason:Yeah. And I think that's obviously what we're trying to combat. I think a lot of businesses and the industry itself is trying to combat is, I think, because the way COVID's gone, digital devices, people are now more connected than ever, but also disconnected. And I think then when you go and have a hospitality experience, a really good one, whether you're staying at a hotel, whether it's a full service restaurant, anything, you have a real opportunity to connect with people that you're in a restaurant with or in a in a venue with. And I think that's where the opportunity for tipping over and above is is a real driver.
Steven:For sure.
Mason:I think on the topic of service charges, from a consumer's perspective, it's great because it's effortless and, you know, you can spend loads of time on Reddit and looking at how people think about tipping. You can look at Google articles and everyone there's always a divide. Mhmm. But I think the general thesis is that consumers like the fact that they don't have to think about it because they don't have the social pressure of thinking how much am I gonna tip. It's just baked in, like you said.
Steven:You mean flip around that, like, little little tablet and then it's and the person's sitting there staring
Mason:at you. I'll just think about it. I know the team are looked after. Everything is, like, in order. But then I also think as well is and again, something that we're really big on is making sure that you actually then think at the core of it, the service charges, a tip at the end of the day, it is discretionary.
Mason:It can be taken off. You don't wanna breed complacency and you want the team members to really work and provide great service for the customers that are coming through the door, and have that cyclical nature of you provide great experiences, customers are coming back, customers are coming back, grows the business, business is gonna give you a job type of thing.
Steven:Yeah. And and and and it's kind of the virtuous cycle Yeah. Of hospitality. Mhmm. Right?
Steven:Like that's how great brands and great businesses and you know, great careers even, in some cases get made. One thing I fell in love with about the hospitality industry and say it say it regularly is like, it's it's Especially in The US, it's the On one end, it's the place where you can get a first job or a second chance in life.
Mason:Yeah yeah, definitely.
Steven:Right? You can always, mean, we could you you and I could walk down the street right now and probably get a job, you know, bussing tables or washing dishes, or you know, maybe maybe a server quit today, you know, there's always space for for you to like, make an income in the hospitality industry. And at the other end, career servers. People that like make it their life to just know their products and like their their wine lists and like deliver this experience like that that range. There aren't many industries that can provide that range of career.
Steven:And if you look at any leader of any restaurant group, everybody started at the bottom. Yeah. They all started in the locations, maybe of the business they're running. Or or maybe, you know, of another industry or part of the industry or something like that. So like that's There's so much room for growth and opportunity and that kind of thing and finding ways to continue to support the compensation and growth and allow people to have and live their lives Mhmm.
Steven:While being in service of others in in hospitality is a, you know, kind of a core to who I am Mhmm. Since since that summer in business school.
Mason:Yeah yeah yeah. It's a good sweet spot as well because obviously, not nowhere near as much experience, but I've come from, like, a tech telecoms security background. It's how that's evolving and changing the way that people work and live. But how you can utilize that tech to improve the industry, which is so people focused, so people oriented, everything that you said you're falling in love with the industry about, that's the same for me having only been in the industry for such a short period of time. It's so cool to be around people that actually really want to make a difference for the people that are turning up to work Yeah.
Mason:Which is which is great, and like you said, you don't see it in any any other industry.
Steven:No. And and and I think the the dynamics of restaurants specifically is it's like, yeah, I mean, technically, one restaurant next to another restaurant, they're in competition.
Mason:Yeah. Everyone's helped each other out.
Steven:Yeah. Every It's so collaborative, and and then I I fell in love with that, and actually, I mean, I'll be honest, like, being able to, have that dynamic with you is refreshing in in a in a in a the world that we're on, because the amount of, you know, butting heads on the tech side is, you know, I mean, you see it every day,
Mason:it's like people
Steven:going at it, and it's like, no, we rising tide, lift the boats, let's do it. Let's let's all get there together, let's make each other's businesses and, you know, the businesses we support that much better.
Mason:Yeah, definitely. That actually brings me on to, I guess, the next the next topic, really. People that know Tip House, that know Grateful could then see why are you doing a podcast together? You guys are competitors. Obviously, you're in different regions, but why are you talking to each other?
Mason:And like you said, it's using the whole nature of the themes of hospitality to improve your business, improve our business, improve the industry. For everyone that I guess people on this side of the pond, they probably won't know what Tip House is, who Tip House is, the story, what you guys are doing. Can you give a quick interlude on what you guys are, why you think you're different, I guess, what you're doing over there that people in The UK may not see Yeah. And what what grounds you're breaking.
Steven:Yeah. No. I appreciate the opportunity. Yeah. So Tip House was was founded by a gentleman, Leif Magnusson, who I'm co CEO with at this point and a few other co founders, our COO Kirk and our CTO Mac, came in alongside him early on to help build the early days of this.
Steven:And what he saw was he didn't couldn't really find a piece of software that worked for the consulting client he had. He had done an implementation of Toast, rolling it out across a you know, probably I think 20 ish location pizza chain in The US called Farrelli's. And the owner said, man, why don't you just build this for us?
Mason:I remember.
Steven:And Tip House was born. Yeah. And those early days, you know, they were they were getting traction, you know, getting getting early customers and and really the the thesis at the point was, how do we calculate in an automated fashion and ensure transparency and consistency and compliance where the spreadsheets that our payroll team is are using.
Mason:Yeah.
Steven:So when I brought in Tip House, this was 2022. So I was president of Ethan's Hill Restaurants. Leif and the team were kinda building the business back. They shut the basically shut off the revenue when COVID hit Right. Which was great for them because they'd all just quit their jobs.
Steven:It was perfect is everything. Timing is everything. But what it ended up being, and they just leaned into investing heavy in the product, investing heavy. Sure. There were sales efforts going and conversations were still happening.
Steven:And our current head of go to market
Mason:operations Your head now is in at Tip House.
Steven:He was at Tip House in the beginning. Okay. Fine. He he like, Casey had to, like, go he's like, hey, guys, I actually need an income. I've got family, like, I'm gonna go do this for a while, I'll come back when you're ready.
Steven:And he came back early twenty twenty four. So like, the business had grown up into the in that thing. It was solving that core problem. In my restaurant group at Ethan's Store Restaurants, we had two payroll people that spent two full workdays each every So four person days of effort
Mason:Yeah.
Steven:Managing, dealing with, adjusting, changing the spreadsheets for our 25 to 30 different locations and outposts.
Mason:God.
Steven:Post implementation of Tip House, that same two person team spent a grand total of three to four hours reviewing, auditing, double checking, just making sure that that this automated data feed that we had was right. Mhmm. And of course, things break because like, you know, you put a server in, you forget to give them the server job code or somebody punched in as a busser instead of a bartender. So there's always little clean up to do on those things, so the auditing's critical. But four hours versus four days, I mean, I was able to allow those folks to like do other accounting tasks or work Yeah.
Steven:Projects. Right? It was a huge time savings. Not to mention cost, know. I had to write, it was painful.
Steven:Two weeks before we turned on Tip House, I was writing hand checks for about $2,000 worth of tip underpayments and I had to eat the other $2,000 because you know, when you accidentally drop in the numbers You the wrong same order
Mason:with the team.
Steven:Everything falls out the wrong way. And so, some people get overpaid, some people get underpaid, you're not gonna take money back from the team because you don't want the buzzer to quit. Yeah. Right? Like Yeah.
Steven:It's was this really annoying, I'm like, God, if this has just happened two weeks ago, and you know, three or four times a year I was having to do that previously. So there's these hidden costs of not integrating and automating your systems. So that was how Tip House got started. And then in The US, as the It was always cash, right? The big thing about tips in The US was you got your tips at the end of the night in an envelope in cash.
Steven:But as cash has left the system and the economy, there isn't enough in the restaurant to do that anymore. If only 5% of your sales are in cash versus you know, even you know, ten years ago.
Mason:Yeah.
Steven:20% is an average for like a nice full service restaurant. Where are gonna make up the gap? How are gonna get that other 15% Mhmm. To hand cash out to him? Well, you're gonna go to the bank, or you're gonna get a Brinks truck to drop it off, and there's all these other costs.
Mason:You've someone driving back and forth the back
Steven:of And that's the not great. Waiting there You're you're wasting time, you're wasting money, you're putting your team at risk sometimes, if, you know, they're going out late at night to drop cash or bring cash back, or whatever. So it's a it's like, we so we decided to build into the product digital tip payouts. What what we call earned tip access. Yeah.
Steven:And so, that was, you know, it's been done for a while by by others, but having it fully integrated with what we do
Mason:has calculations. Been
Steven:Yeah. So the tip calculations is the beating heart of the business. And we, you know, now we It was customer driven demand. Customers said, hey, we love your calculations, why don't you Can we just pay out through you too?
Mason:Yeah.
Steven:And so, the team went and built it. And so, ETA has been this great win for us, and it's been growing, like, it's growing faster than just the SaaS side all by itself, which has been really interesting to to see as well. So, that's that's the story on on Tip House, and now we're just, you know, plodding along. We're Yeah.
Mason:It's it's
Steven:one foot in front of the other, up a really steep hill.
Mason:Yeah. I was gonna say plodding doesn't sound like the right word.
Steven:Yeah. It's a it's it's a I feel like a dog that caught the car. Right? I I got into the business, and, you know, we're doing well and starting to grow, and all these other things were happening, and all of a sudden, it's just like, hold on for dear life. This this thing has taken off.
Mason:Started the flywheel spinning, and then it's like, it's not slowing down anytime soon. It's COVID, I think, was a massive, massive thing for both our businesses. Right? Obviously, we're much newer than you guys, but our businesses wouldn't really especially in The UK, I guess, it wouldn't really have existed as much because service charge wasn't as prevalent beforehand anyway and now moving towards a cashless economy or virtually cashless now. Yeah.
Mason:People were giving and receiving cash. Employees were none the wiser. Like you said, that flips turned, and there's this gaping hole then. Employers are then hit with this massive administrative burden.
Steven:Mhmm.
Mason:And team members are just working day in, day out, still having the same input, but not getting the output of getting the cash at the end of the night. Because, again, they still they got it here. And the the automation piece, I think, again, is very similar based on both Mhmm. The US and The UK. What about transparency?
Mason:Obviously, transparency is a massive thing for us in terms of team
Steven:Well, it's built into your law. The new law. Right?
Mason:Yeah. Exactly. Like, what do you think is, like, the the big turning point then for for you guys, or when was the turning point when you've actually then displayed this through a platform and the focus of having data at the fingertips to be able to to be able to see that on a daily basis, how important do you think that is for frontline workers and also people that are just working as part of hospitality in general?
Steven:Yeah. No. I I think, you know, the more transparency you can give anyone into their earnings, the better off they
Mason:are Mhmm. At the end
Steven:of the day. And so, you know, we've had the employee app and the ability to see what you what you've earned and why, and and where, you know, a tip Like if you're part of a tip pool or tip share, and you can see what the rules are and how it gets split out to the different, you know, parts of the business that you're supporting with those tips and that kind of thing, or where you're receiving it from. So like having that transparency really just breeds trust. Yeah. Increases trust between the team, between the the the other man their manager or or or you know, they're bigger corporate folks.
Steven:Because you you get to see it and so there's less questions. We've heard from some customers like, you know, there's 95% drop in questions about what are my tips or you know, my tips questions about whether it's right or wrong. Just Yeah. Kind of starts to go away. And there's ancillary benefits in The US too because with tip payouts, it helps breed compliance to clocking in and clocking out correctly.
Steven:That was one of my pet peeves at at in my restaurant days with people forgetting to clock out or forgetting clock in altogether, and like, coming and working a shift and like, you know, we don't have we have no data about them even being there.
Mason:It's like Yeah.
Steven:Joe, please please please just do this, man. That kind of thing.
Mason:From from what we hear, that's definitely a problem that's shared over here as well, you know, from operators. They want to make sure that if you if operators are now utilizing tech to do more with less, and I think that's what all hospitality industries globally are having to do now because of the cost pressures and everything else. You need to have that process. Need to know. And, again, that sort of knock on effect of that, the the server, the waiter, wait just may not be able to see Yep.
Mason:Is all the mess that then occurs in the background for platforms like ours, for workforce management systems, for payroll systems. So I think that that's that's definitely a problem that's that's shared across across both businesses.
Steven:And and to answer the other part of the question, like, why do this? Like, at the end of the day, I have a a true belief that, you know, there's more than enough room in the world for both of our business to be wildly successful. Obviously, there's geographic dynamics right now with an ocean between. But if you're able to serve businesses over here and support great, you know, service and great businesses and teams, that's better for the world. Makes the world just that little bit better and if the the lessons that we've learned being a little ahead of you all on the journey can be helpful and you can teach us things because you're gonna see stuff that I'm I haven't.
Steven:Right? There there there's that that's just like, we can all be better together dynamic. I think there's there's something to it. Right?
Mason:And that's hospitality, like you said, is like over here, ops directors, people directors, HR directors, everyone in hospitality, they all collaborate and communicate about how we can improve the industry, how we can help alleviate cost pressures, how we can make sure our teams are better motivated. So I think sharing that and having that trickle down into wider aspects that touch the industry, I think, is, like you said, it's a good thing for everyone.
Steven:Yeah. No. I think I think it's a benefit to our customers that we collaborate.
Mason:Yeah. Yeah. Definitely.
Steven:And at the end of the day, I don't wanna sell anybody a piece of software they don't need. Yeah. I wanna solve problems for my customers. And I'm only gonna be able to do that if I'm talking to other people who are solving problems for my customers, right? Yeah.
Steven:So, I'm I'm Maybe I'm naive. Maybe I'm, you know Maybe rose colored glasses on in in in the world, I'm about to get my lunch eaten. But I actually believe that if you can you can help others out Mhmm. It comes back around for all of us. It'll benefit, you know, not just our customers, but the individuals that we work with in our own teams, right?
Steven:That mentality of supporting each other trickles into the team. Yeah. Right? We we just have each other's backs. You mentioned earlier before we we started that you've got a customer success kind of strong strong focus there and that's something that we really believe in.
Steven:I think the hospitality industry, one of the disappointing parts of the hospitality tech industry that I've seen, has been an under investment in support. Feeling supported, I hear far too many stories. I I implemented about a dozen new tech platforms during my five four and a half, five years at at Ethan's store restaurants. Hands down, the best customer service, customer success was was Tip House. So one of the reasons I joined this team Mhmm.
Steven:Was the dedication to getting it right for the customer and customer focused mentality. Yeah. I think if you sorry, Tintra.
Mason:I think if you do that right, and you focus on solving a problem, and you're giving good service to your customers and you're being obsessed about doing better for them, then you're not gonna go far wrong. Like, we've had the same. We've had customers join us after they have been customers of ours And having their insight and their knowledge having been on the other side of it into how we how can we change this 1%? How can we improve this? How can we improve it for the guys on the front line?
Mason:How can we improve it for the managers? Yep. That gives you the competitive edge to be able to then create great products.
Steven:Yeah. Right? Yeah. The great and and and it's it becomes that virtuous cycle because Yeah. A customer that is a big fan of Tipping House Mhmm.
Steven:Will tell their friends. It's like, hey, I've got if a friend in those little groups, the HR group or Yeah. The you know, the ops directors groups that like gather in in in my hometown in Seattle. Well, if somebody just brings up, hey, we ran into this tipping issue, what do you guys do about this stuff? Somebody in that group might work with
Mason:us. Mhmm.
Steven:And if we're providing a great experience on the customer success side, and we're making them feel supported, they're gonna talk about us. Right? We we'll get brought up in that discussion. If we suck at that,
Mason:then Oh, you're not gonna go anywhere.
Steven:Or we'll be they'll say, don't use tip house. Yeah. Right? More more importantly, this is a word of Which is mouth like death. Yeah.
Steven:Yeah. This is a word-of-mouth, person to person, in person industry at the end of the day. And if you can just make them your raving fans, they'll do the sales for you at the end of the day as you start getting more and more critical mass. We found, you know, you do a little heat map of of locations and businesses that Tip House has like deep penetration in. Yeah.
Steven:We hit this certain level in a in a city or region, and all of a sudden, like it just expands faster, there's this like tipping point of critical mass in geography. Yeah. I see what did there, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Steven:You get you get to that point, and everybody's like it it just sort of cascades.
Mason:Yeah. Yeah. That that is one of the things that really surprised me coming into this industry. It was a bit like, what's going on? Everyone's everyone's friends.
Mason:Everyone's speaking to each other. Like, it's really, really collaborative. Yeah. Which is cool. It's cool.
Mason:I guess as a side note, asking you, like, personal questions are, what would you say, like, the favorite your favorite most memorable hospitality experience has been in a good way? And then I'm gonna ask you about the worst one on both sides of the coin because we've obviously talked about how everyone wants to show up. They want to provide great hospitality to people. Sometimes it's absolutely spectacular, just the whole experience end to end, and sometimes it's it's not. And you have nightmares.
Mason:As you as an operator or even a customer, right, it's like on both sides. But like what would you say is the best, most memorable experience that you've had? I've put you on the spot here.
Steven:You you have. This is this is a good one. I I I I've not prepped anything, if this goes badly, please cut it out. No. I I I think the most memorable experience that I can think of I had an opportunity to to originally, we had go we were going to Italy in August 2020.
Steven:Mhmm. And that didn't play out the way we'd hoped. Yeah. For some obvious COVID related reasons.
Mason:Yeah.
Steven:So the whole thing got pushed to to 2021 and the backstory on all of this is is a much longer longer tail but there's a there's that extra year of waiting for the restaurant that we were going to, in this case was Ostria Francescana, Massimo Bottura, one of the great chefs, one of the, you know, oak cuisine like Yeah. Amazing chefs in the world. He has done so much for the restaurant industry globally, so much for his region, so much for Italy in terms of like, when the earthquake happened in Parma. Yeah. And there was just all this Parmesan cheese that was just effectively destroyed.
Steven:He created a whole plan and program that just allowed it to like, sold and go out the door and like, support the farmers and the cheese cheese makers.
Mason:I didn't know
Steven:that.
Mason:He's Cool.
Steven:He he's like one of those people who it's like hospitality and services at his core. This was an expensive dinner. Yeah. By any one standards. Mhmm.
Steven:It's, you know, being On
Mason:the daylight.
Steven:Yeah. But a year later, another twelve months to build it up in my mind, right? I walked in and I was nervous. I was I'm like, how are they gonna get over this bar that I've I've set them at? Like knowing who he is, knowing what the accolades he's had, knowing what I've heard from others.
Steven:I was so blown away at the level of care and attention to detail, the the ability for the team to see things before they happened, in some cases. I've never seen such a wide gap between the level of expectation I had and how I was served. Mhmm. And I was up here to start with. And so, like, when it's done really really well, it you can still over deliver even when your expectations are through the roof.
Steven:And that was I was really surprised by that. And, oh, by the way, the food, the wine, the sir everything just came together.
Mason:I was gonna say, what was it? Was there anything specific? Was it like the the the service that you had? Was it the ambiance? Was it the wine?
Steven:It was the everything. Right. It was the experience. Right? Like at the end of the day, they delivered an experience that is one that, you know, I will think about and dream about, and some of those dishes, and the like the perfection of like the precision.
Steven:Like, the the skill it took to do what they did was just phenomenal. It's like it's like any if you watch it like a great footballer. Yeah. Right? If you're watching like Messi in his prime, it's like, just carving up a defense and it's like, it's that in hospitality.
Steven:It's that level of like amazing quality. And so for for me, that was the just sort of that's kind of the peak of what I've experienced in in hospitality and the restaurant industry for sure.
Mason:Nice. Nice. It's interesting, actually. I I didn't even say, like, globally, but it's interesting to say that you've had it somewhere that wasn't near home or somewhere that was completely, you know, tens and tens of thousands of miles away.
Steven:Yeah. Hospitality is is a human thing. Yeah. Yeah. It's not it's not a not a, you know, geographically bound thing for sure.
Steven:Being in service of others is, I think, why we're here.
Mason:Yeah. Definitely. Definitely. And on the flip side then, what would you say is, like, the the biggest, oh, crap moment?
Steven:Yeah. I'm gonna I'm gonna actually use this as an opportunity for a PSA. I want to do a public service announcement for anyone out there that works in in the hostile industry. I Because of where I come from and how much I love hospitality teams, I have so much grace Mhmm. For kitchen mistakes or you know, pushing the wrong button on the POS or They All the things that can go wrong in a service experience.
Mason:Mhmm.
Steven:The one thing I just That just grates me is when it's clear that we're done. And the bill In The US, the bill hits the table Mhmm. And then they come and collect your credit card and take it away. And here, it's The bill hit the table and then they come with the device. Right?
Steven:Yeah. That gap between the bill hitting the table and the final transaction, if it's more than about a minute and a half, it's too long.
Mason:Yeah.
Steven:And you've you've now had the opportunity to ruin all the things that's
Mason:gone into the whole experience.
Steven:Yeah. You you've actually, like, just shot yourself directly in the foot at the moment that it you could just wrapped it up cleanly and had a like, sent sent them off on their way. So that's the one thing, and the one I can remember, I mean, I I had to get up from the table and walk over and hand them my credit card. I'm like, guys, it's been twenty minutes. Like, what are we doing here?
Mason:Like, I
Steven:get it you're busier for staff, but this is like, I had to felt like I was doing a little coaching counseling session with one of my own teams, like, what's going on here?
Mason:Yeah. Get the apron on. Yeah.
Steven:Yeah. Put me in, coach.
Mason:I guess, just final couple of questions, I know we're sort of running out of time, but where do you think, like, the future hospitality is going from an operator's perspective, from a tech perspective? Obviously, there's so much change, especially in The UK. We know there's, you know, cost pressures that operators have sort of never seen, headwinds like this before. And, again, they're having to do more with less, but also there's so much exciting thing, so many more exciting concepts coming to market. Competitive socializing is a new thing that's come to market in the last sort
Steven:of Five socializing. Alright, we'll talk about that later. Yeah.
Mason:Like, where do you think hospitality is going? What what does the what does the future look like hospitality for you?
Steven:Yeah. I mean, it's it's What I love about the hospitality industry is like, one restaurant will shut down
Mason:Mhmm.
Steven:And a whole new one will come back in its place under a completely different cuisine, or service model, or structure, or whatever that thing is. There's always innovation happening. So the industry will will make it through to whatever future state it becomes. I'm I'm I'm worried about small standalone independent restaurants. The combination of cost pressures, you know, wage dynamics, you know, inflation everywhere and whatnot, it's just it's hard to be all by yourself out in the world.
Steven:Mhmm. The more you can club up, the better off you'll be. So I have concerns in that category but in terms of where it's kinda going from here, I I really think that the innovations will be in Where can you find efficiency that takes work off of people? Mhmm. To allow them to get back to the thing that they love doing.
Steven:You know, that's one of the things we like to say about what we do at Tip House is we give the manager time back in their day. You know, sometimes it's ten, twenty minutes, but that could be re re repurposed because they're not having to fill out that little spreadsheet they used to have to fill out for
Mason:And compounded over fifty two weeks or
Steven:Jumps into real numbers. Right? Real time and real support. So anything that like, unburdens the team from administrative tasks is going to be more and more important, especially as wages keep keep rising and and other things over time. Because you just want them to be in focused on the core job, which is the team and the people and all of the other things.
Steven:So I think that's one area that's there's gonna be a lot of change. On on the tech side, more and more businesses are moving to best of breed. You know, use the tool that's right for the job and have strong partnerships and API integrations in the background to you know, show the data between. So like, that sort of stitched together version of the world really is where it where it's all where it's all going. Don't get me wrong, the full stack platform if you're, you know, a more simplified business simplifies your life.
Steven:Mhmm. And totally get that. But as you get bigger, you need the best of the best of the best at what they do, and I think that is gonna be a big shift. I'm curious about where where AI's gonna go in hospitality.
Mason:It's a big talking point, I think, anyway It is. In all industries, but especially in such a people oriented industry. It's it's so prevalent and you'd see webinars about it, breakfasts about it, and I think it's such an important part and I think companies that are doing it right are gonna really then lead the game, change the game for operators because, you know, we've talked about doing more with less, but again, very similar to what we do is you're utilizing tech to make sure that then the people are then focused on improving the experience for guests or improving the experience for their colleagues or driving revenue. So I think that's where it will it will come in because I think me as a as a consumer going into I think we're starting to see it creeping a little bit more in hotel experiences first before restaurants. Everyone's different.
Mason:Right? And it sort of depends what mood I'm in, and it's probably quite difficult then for a hotel to to cater for that. But some people really like the experience of going in and checking in and engaging with a human Mhmm. Rather than a self checking process. So, yeah, I think AI is definitely a very very hot topic across the board.
Mason:It definitely is over here, I'm sure it is in The US.
Steven:A 100%.
Mason:That's that's an interesting piece.
Steven:It'll be interesting to see how it gives us a minute. My my thesis coming from the operator side has been, you know, the reason why, like, you know, the toasts and delivery platforms and other things of the world blew up in a really big way because of the pandemic Mhmm. And got, you know, had so much sales and growth success, was the under adoption of technology and hospitality generally.
Mason:Yeah.
Steven:Right? It's always a laggard adopter. And it'll be interesting to see how AI plays out with this, but in general, people go into hospitality because maybe tech isn't their thing. Maybe they don't want to be interacting with that. Maybe they want to just be in people people based environments and so they're it's not a focus area for them, so they're not as comfortable with it.
Steven:So for me, I think the best AI is gonna be one that nobody knows is AI. It's going to be an experience on the employee or the operator side that's delivering value, leveraging this tool called AI. But if you I I, you know, as we're thinking about it, implementing it and what we have Mhmm. We'll never use that term AI. I don't think it matters whether the information that's being delivered to you is via some spreadsheet recreated and then delivered you data, Or via, you know, a very smart, you know, agent that's doing the crunching and saying, hey, you did great yesterday in tips.
Steven:Did you know that another of the other servers in your restaurant, if they saw if they did x y and z, got 2% more in tips. Like, that would be an AI use in our world Mhmm. That actually delivers value to the employee. Yeah. Here's how you can improve your earnings Yeah.
Steven:And the business. It improves their sales at the same time. So those are the kinds of tools I think that will start creeping in, and that's the good use of that kind of stuff. So it just makes everybody's experience better and it doesn't scare them along the way.
Mason:Yeah. Definitely. Definitely. Last thing since I know we're we're running out of time. What would you say is one thing, I guess, for top people listening?
Mason:What is the one thing that you think people in the industry or outside of the industry can do to improve hospitality? Just one small thing.
Steven:Have a little more grace on both sides. Yeah. I see I see sometimes see teams have they get frustrated with guests. Sometimes, you know, guests get frustrated with their service staff. And having that little bit of, we're all human, we are all fighting through something.
Mason:Yeah.
Steven:And that little bit of grace, I think, will just continue to to create a little bit more space for for everyone to feel like they're taken care of just that little bit more.
Mason:Yeah. Cool. No, love that. Thank you. Thanks for coming on.
Mason:It was good to chat to you
Steven:as always. Great to be here. I'm grateful for the invitation.
Mason:Thanks, Grateful. I appreciate it. Thank you. Awesome. Thanks very Cheers.