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Join Australia's leading comic speechmaker, Homer Papantonio, and renowned cardiologist, Dr. Ross Walker, for a podcast that blends humor and health in a way you’ve never heard before. "The Seriously Funny Wellbeing Podcast" delivers top-notch insights on wellness and well-being with a satirical twist. Get ready to laugh, learn, and live better—it's not for the faint-hearted!
Homer Papantonio (00:00.704)
Welcome ladies and gentlemen to podcast number nine of the seriously funny wellbeing show. I'm your co -host, Homer Papantonio and with me proud again to introduce the irrepressible, irrevocable, irredeemable, eerie whatever, Dr Ross Walker. The subject of this week's podcast is the huge subject of sleep.
Ross Walker (00:19.775)
Hello, everybody.
Homer Papantonio (00:27.122)
So hopefully we will all keep you awake for long enough to discuss this slumberous subject of sleep. So Ross, let's try and keep our audience awake by going through a few wellness jokes. A gym member asked the gym instructor, can you teach me to do the splits? He said, how flexible are you? She said, I can't make Tuesdays.
Ross, did you hear about the angry gymnast? He just flipped.
Ross Walker (00:55.868)
gee.
Ross Walker (00:59.485)
Nah.
Do you will well on that? You know, you know what makes a pirate really angry? Take away the P.
Homer Papantonio (01:07.594)
What? Irate? That's funny, beautiful. My grief counsellor died just the other day. He was so good I didn't care.
Ross Walker (01:12.305)
Thank you.
Ross Walker (01:20.405)
Ha
Homer Papantonio (01:22.1)
Ross, my mate Bruce was obsessed with cough drops. He ended up in a menthol institution.
Ross Walker (01:29.042)
yes, and I heard when he actually passed on there was no coffin at his wedding.
Homer Papantonio (01:34.54)
My extra sensitive toothpaste doesn't like it when I use other toothpasteers. I'm just back as you can see from competing in the sun tanning world championships. I got bronze.
Ross Walker (01:42.218)
no,
Ross Walker (01:50.293)
No, and you know, did you know what the what was the name of the player who only ever played as a substitute? Just in case.
Homer Papantonio (01:52.244)
you
Homer Papantonio (01:57.932)
No. Keeping tropical fish at home can have a calming effect on the brain. This is due to all the indoor fins. Mary!
Ross Walker (02:01.49)
Okay, listen.
Ross Walker (02:14.496)
yeah, the other day a person threw a bottle of Omega 3 at me. I only got superficial injuries.
Homer Papantonio (02:23.532)
Mary Poppins will no longer be endorsing Rimmel Vibrant Shades Lipstick. claims it breaks too easily and it makes her breath smell. She gave the following statement, the super colour fragile lipsticks give me halitosis. You heard that one. The therapist told me I have a marriage phobia and asked if I thought I had any symptoms. I said I can't say I do. So Dr Ross.
Ross Walker (02:41.12)
Yes, yeah, Yes.
Homer Papantonio (02:53.824)
Let's move on to the next segment, is medical news. Daily aspirin for colorectal cancer.
Ross Walker (03:01.536)
Yeah, here's an interesting one because many years ago, doctors used to suggest to people they took an aspirin every day to keep the doctor away, suggesting it reduced their risk for cardiovascular disease and even for colorectal cancer. And interestingly, three major studies in people done over the age of 70, showing that a daily aspirin a day, these were healthy people didn't have disease, daily aspirin a day didn't do anything in terms of overall prevention of disease.
because the bleeding risk, the risk for reflux and all the other things that went with it was balanced out against the prevention of heart disease or colorectal cancer. Well, this study that was done by Harvard University on 108 ,000 nurses and doctors followed up for 10 years, average age about 49, found that those who had an unhealthy lifestyle and took a baby aspirin every day,
had a 2 % 10 year risk for colorectal cancer. Those who had an unhealthy lifestyle and didn't take the baby aspirin every day had a 3 % risk for colorectal cancer. Now, because it was so many people followed for so long, that was statistically significant. But this is the interesting thing, and this is what we should be stressing here. The people who had a healthy lifestyle, absolutely no difference whether they took aspirin or not with lower rates of colorectal cancer.
compared to the people with the unhealthy lifestyle. So the message here is not have an unhealthy lifestyle and take an aspirin, you'll be fine. The message is have a healthy lifestyle and you'll be much better off with less disease, less colorectal cancer.
Homer Papantonio (04:40.172)
It's interesting a lot of people also take aspirin, the blood phenon, testosterone, blood clots, heart attacks and all that.
Ross Walker (04:47.175)
No, it's blood clots, it's ridiculous because they're not aspirin doesn't work for venous blood clots. It only works for the higher pressure arterial clots. So I believe everyone who's had a heart attack, stent, bypass or has a very high calcium score should take a baby aspirin every day or something like it. There are other drugs on the market that are pretty similar. But just as a general prevention as you get older, absolutely not.
Homer Papantonio (04:53.163)
Right.
material.
Homer Papantonio (05:14.43)
Okay. Medium to long -term effects of baby aspirins.
Ross Walker (05:19.04)
Well, I'll tell you a personal story. When my dear, mother was alive many, many years ago, she'd been dead now for about 15 years. But when she was alive, and this was, this is actually a funny story, so people will find this somewhat amusing. This is about 25 years ago, she was living in Ballina on the North Coast of New South Wales, and I was in Sydney, of course, and I hadn't seen her for about nine months. And she came down to our house to stay and she was very short of breath. So I took off my SON hat and put on my doctor hat.
doctor hat and ran a few tests on her. And it came back that her hemoglobin, which is the red cell count, should be above 120. Hers was down to 70. And I said, Mom, are you bleeding from anywhere? no, son. Mom, do you have any change in your bowel habit? no, son. Mom, are you taking any drugs at all? Any new drugs? No, son. Mom, do you take aspirin? She said, yes, I take aspirin. I said, Mom, why do you take aspirin? She said, I read it was good for the heart.
I said, mum, you may have missed out on this, but I have been one of Australia's leading cardiologists for the last 25 years. You could have asked me. She said, I didn't want to bother you, son. I said, well, you're bothering me now, woman. So we got a gastroscopy colonoscopy done and she'd wiped out her stomach from being on aspirin for six months. Wiped out her stomach, lost half her blood volume from being on aspirin. So we're not saying it's a benign drug. It's not like a vitamin. There are side effects from taking this.
Homer Papantonio (06:18.39)
you
Homer Papantonio (06:22.416)
you
Homer Papantonio (06:37.686)
huh.
Ross Walker (06:46.541)
Many people get reflux, get quite significant issues as far as that goes, and it can increase the risk for bleeding, as is gastrointestinal bleeding.
Homer Papantonio (06:55.34)
Okay, future of medicine, universal flu vaccine, another controversial area.
Ross Walker (07:02.335)
I see. I don't think it's controversial. think that of all the treatments from last century in medicine, the most effective were vaccinations. We wiped out smallpox. We markedly reduced polio.
Homer Papantonio (07:10.378)
Yeah, yeah, I know, but...
Yeah, but I'm not an anti -vaxxer. I'm an anti -proven vaccine. You want some proof that it actually works. I think a lot of people... Yeah. Okay.
Ross Walker (07:24.752)
Well, there's high significant proof of the flu vaccine. But the problem with the flu vaccine is that every year the flu virus travels around the world and picks up its frequent flyer points and mutates. So every year, because we're using a vaccine that's against the outer parts of the virus, we have to invent a new vaccine to predict what influenza bugs are going to be coming through, whether it's influenza A or influenza B.
be coming through. So typically now we use a quadrivalent vaccine that has particular immune stimulants and antibodies against the predicted viruses that are going to come through. But now what they're doing is they're developing a vaccine against the inner bit of the virus, which is consistent with even going back to the Spanish flu, 1918 strain that killed
somewhere between 50 to 100 million people around the globe, they found that even against that strain, this particular new vaccine will kill that virus or prevent that virus or any other viruses come through because it's getting a common part of the influenza vaccine that actually makes it influenza as opposed to these variants of the influenza virus.
Homer Papantonio (08:45.88)
So during COVID, the rationale that I had is why would you vaccinate yourself if you're somewhere for a disease? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. No, I was just gonna come up with a few little things. No? Okay. Body of evidence, new anti -aging breakthrough.
Ross Walker (08:55.613)
Homer, can we stop this right now, move on to the next subject please, I'm not going to get into an anti -vaccine discussion. Next, next, next, no, don't want to hear it. Next, next.
Ross Walker (09:13.863)
Yep. Well, this is interesting because now around the world, there are all of these experts emerging. So, for example, Professor David Sinclair, who's written the wonderful book Lifespan. He actually grew up just around the corner from where I'm living. And he's now the world anti -aging guru in Harvard University. And so they're doing all these different.
research projects on different types of anti -aging therapies. So we've all heard about the activated forms of B3, NMN, NAD, riboside, nicotinic acid. There's a thing called rapamycin, which comes from the soil on Easter Island. That's supposed to be highly effective as well. There's issues with all of these things, but I'm saying it's looking very promising, the research. Well, this latest one was done, been done on mice. And there's a particular inflammatory protein called
Interleukin 11, which is markedly released if people have chronic illnesses and inflammation. And what they did was develop an antibody that inhibits this particular Interleukin 11. And at the equivalent mice age, what would be a human of 55, but a mice of 75 weeks, they started giving them this antibody against Interleukin 11. And they found they prolonged the life of mice
by 25%. Now again, this has not been trialed in humans, but what we're talking about is if we can find a safe antibody, it may be that once a year you get an injection with this interleukin 11 antibody and it may prolong your life. The future of medicine, maybe. Interesting discussion.
Homer Papantonio (10:54.966)
Interesting that anti -aging, like, you know, the topic of our last podcast was healthspan versus lifespan. And when someone says anti -aging, it's anti -quality of life, aging. You know, like, do you look at it in that context? and then just, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Ross Walker (11:11.799)
Yeah, no, no, we're not, look, we don't want people to stay alive for another 20 years, that makes it 40 years of chronic disease. We're not talking about that. Now in these mice who were treated, there was much less weight, less diabetes, less cardiovascular disease, less cancer. And let's face it, when you talk about aging or when you talk about dying, you typically die from some disease.
Homer Papantonio (11:37.313)
Yeah.
Ross Walker (11:37.324)
Now was said the queen died from old age, how old was she, 96 or something. But yeah, but she still had an underlying disease that killed her. Everyone dies from something. You don't die from old age. There is some condition that precipitates. Even if it's pneumonia, it's the old person's friend. It is still a disease that takes you off the planet.
Homer Papantonio (12:01.174)
So let's drink to the next one. Controversies. Alcohol. Good or bad?
Ross Walker (12:07.383)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, look, for many years, many of us have wanted to believe that having a glass or two, especially of red wine a day, has a health benefit. And some of the studies have suggested that that is the case. Now, this latest thing published in the Journal of the Studies on Alcohol and Drugs looked at 107 observational studies of a huge amount of people, 4 .8 million people, and they...
And over that time, just over 425 ,000 people died in the long follow up that they had. And these were people over the age of 56. And it found that in the studies that were very high quality studies, they, and see, this is the problem. A lot of the studies that have suggested that alcohol was a benefit were done where people said, no, I don't drink. But they used to drink heavily and they stopped drinking because it was creating health problems.
So the health problems are already established and they say, we're a non -drinker as opposed to people who have a glass or two of wine a day live longer than them. So they weeded out all those people. So they found lifelong non -drinkers versus lifelong low -level drinkers up to two standard drinks a day versus people who drank more than that. And they found really that there was no difference in depth between the non -drinkers and the...
the lifelong low level drinkers. But once you got to the three or four consistently every day, that's when your mortality rates started to go up. So there was no benefit from drinking, but at the low level of alcohol consumption, probably no detriment either.
Homer Papantonio (13:52.882)
about the type of alcohol you are ingesting.
Ross Walker (13:56.259)
Well, again, it's hard to say, you see, because a lot of the studies and this is where I'm a bit against this research. A lot of the studies were done in America where they combined whatever alcohol with the crappy American diet, the modern Western diet full of processed foods. But when you, for example, look at two studies, one called the Copenhagen heart study, where they can combine really a European Mediterranean style diet. A couple of glasses of beer a day had no benefit or dent
detriment against the non -drinkers. A couple of nips of Scotch a day, and we're talking about a non -grandfather's nip of Scotch, so a standard nip of Scotch, a couple of those a day, 30 % increased risk for heart disease and cancer versus the non -drinkers. When they looked at the people who had a couple of glasses of red wine a day, and the dose is 250 mls, or a third of a bottle, that's two glasses, there was a 50 % reduction.
in heart disease and cancer in those people. Then another study by a guy called Serge Reneau, imagine where he came from, a study of 36 ,000 Frenchmen over 12 years found exactly the same thing. Two glasses of red wine per day reduced the risk for heart disease and cancer by 50%. But again, that was Mediterranean stuff where they combined their alcohol with a Mediterranean style diet. But when you combine alcohol with...
Homer Papantonio (14:57.375)
Mmm.
Homer Papantonio (15:01.856)
Hahaha!
Ross Walker (15:23.46)
cigarettes or crappy eating or whatever, no benefit and probably even a detriment. And also, I believe it's who the alcohol is hanging around with. So for example, if you drink because you're lonely or because you're depressed, you're combining the toxic effects of alcohol with unhappy chemicals. Whereas if you're there with all the people you love and all your friends and having a lovely day and you have a couple of glasses of wine, you might get a health benefit from it. I don't know. All I'm saying is it's irresponsible.
for any doctor to encourage people to drink. But equally, something you can't measure in your bloodstream is a thing called pleasure. And we're not just here to exist. We've been talking a lot about quality of life. So if you enjoy a glass to a wine with a meal, that's fine. Just don't go overboard because your liver is the major processing organ for all the natural products you put through your mouth. And it can really only handle a couple of standard drinks most days of the week.
Homer Papantonio (16:20.502)
Yeah, yeah. And you can't tell a wog like me to avoid having a red wine with a nice Mediterranean meal. It is beautiful. And is it a myth that alcoholics have clean arteries?
Ross Walker (16:27.376)
I'm Not saying.
Ross Walker (16:35.99)
Absolute myth, absolute myth. It's got nothing to do with it. For example, a lot of alcoholics smoke cigarettes and a lot of alcoholics still eat bad food or a lot of alcoholics drink so much grog they don't put a lot of weight but they don't have clean arteries. That's nonsense.
Homer Papantonio (16:37.608)
It is.
Homer Papantonio (16:43.147)
Yeah.
Homer Papantonio (16:51.948)
Omega 3 update Ross, the Omega 3 index
Ross Walker (16:58.514)
Yeah, see, this is an interesting test that was developed by a mate of mine called Bill Harris, who's a professor in America. And basically, it's a pinprick test of your skin, of your finger, a little blot of blood on a blotting paper, send it off to a company, and they check your Omega -3 index. Now, the interesting thing is the average Omega -3 index of Australians is about 4%. The average Omega -3 index of the Japanese is about 8%.
So when you look at people who've got a high Omega 3 index, 8 % or above, as opposed to people who have Omega 3 index of 4%, there's a 90 % reduction in sudden cardiac death by having a high Omega 3 index. Now, why do the Japanese have such a high Omega 3 index? Because they have a high intake of Omega 3 based fish. Why do we have such a low one? Because we don't have as much fish as the Japanese. Now, let me make a, here's a confession, Homer.
Father Homer, I'm making a confession to you right now. I don't like fish. I just don't like the taste. It makes me feel a bit nauseated when I eat it. So I don't eat a lot of fish. will. please stop, stop. No, no, no, no. No, oysters is one of God's great mistakes. No, no, no. I just don't enjoy. I don't enjoy fish at all. Just don't enjoy it. And look, some people, I've got kids. A couple of my kids have inherited my dislike of fish, whereas a few of them love it.
Homer Papantonio (18:06.508)
Not even raw tuna, like salmon? No! Really?
Ross Walker (18:26.194)
And my wife enjoys fish, but we just don't have a lot of fish at home because I don't particularly enjoy it. I will have it occasionally when I go to a restaurant, but I don't have much at all. But my Omega 3 index, which I've had done, is 11 .9%. Why? Because I take a bucket of supplements. So I'm a great believer in supplementation. Certainly I would much prefer people to eat the fish, but personally I just can't tolerate it. I'm sorry guys, just being honest. Crill's very good as well. Crill or...
Homer Papantonio (18:50.734)
What about krill oil? Krill.
Ross Walker (18:55.217)
or any form of omega -3 is good, either 1 ,000 milligrams of krill or some good omega -3 supplementation. I don't care what it is, as long as people do something.
Homer Papantonio (19:03.756)
So the combination of krill with normal fish oil, is that okay? Yeah, okay.
Ross Walker (19:08.817)
You can do that if you like. Yeah, if you like, you can do that. The important thing is to know what your Omega 3 index is. Have the test.
Homer Papantonio (19:16.589)
Yeah, Connection is another question we've got later on in here. The connection between omega -3 and arterial fib. We'll talk about it. Okay, that's good. Now.
Ross Walker (19:27.843)
Atrial fibrillation, yeah, okay, I'll get to that later. Ask that in the questions.
Homer Papantonio (19:37.152)
The subject this week is sleep. I know having experienced many years of excessive sleep and occasional sleep deprivation, having flown with Qantas for four or five years many moons ago, that it's important for good health as is diet and exercise. Good sleep improves your brain performance, mood, health. Not getting enough quality sleep regularly raises, as you know Ross, the risk of many diseases and disorders.
These range from heart disease and stroke to obesity and dementia. But Ross, do we need to wake up to any other health benefits of sleep?
Ross Walker (20:17.667)
I think we do and I think we have to realize that the quality of your sleep will determine the quality of your next day. But interestingly, the quality of your next day will also determine the quality of your next night's sleep. So why do we sleep? You got to ask that question. Well, there are basically five categories I talk about here. One is to rejuvenate the body. Number two is to repair any damage done through the day. And number three is just to get a rest. We all need a rest.
Number four is to maintain that really important sleep -wake balance. And there's a long talk about how ancient man slept. And also going with the sleep -wake balance is the vital importance of the 24 -hour circadian rhythm. Because a lot of our body chemicals, our hormones, are released based on that 24 -hour rhythm. So for example, three of the key ones, we've already mentioned this before, but serotonin has a diurnal release.
Cortisone, very important. We naturally make cortisone in our body. People take cortisone as therapy, but they take it in pharmaceutical doses. We release physiologic doses and there is a diurnal variation with that. And also good old melatonin. Melatonin people take as a sleeping pill. It's not a sleeping pill at all. It just resets your sleep cycle. So during times of dark, when things are very dark, then you release melatonin.
Homer Papantonio (21:43.338)
is cortisone and cortisol the same?
Ross Walker (21:48.563)
well, they're all coming from the same category of there's a whole variance of what we call mineralo -corticoids of which cortisol is one. Cortisol is the physiologic one that runs around your bloodstream. Whereas you take treatment with cortisone, you're given prednisone or prednisolone as part of your cortisone therapy. with sleep, the interesting thing about sleep is we have about five cycles of sleep per night and each cycle lasts around 90 minutes.
Homer Papantonio (22:07.126)
Okay, yep.
Ross Walker (22:18.292)
and strangely goes through five stages. So the first stage is that hypnagogic stage where you go off to sleep and it lasts about 20 minutes. And often you think, I haven't been asleep, but you look at the clock, the bedside table and 20 minutes later. And often at the end of the hypnagogic stage, you might twitch a little bit. And then there's a transition phase where you go from being in the hypnagogic phase through a tunnel into deep sleep.
Stage three and four are what we call non -REM sleep. And this non -REM sleep is a sleep where your body's really shut down. That's when you rejuvenate the body for the next day. Then just before you wake up, you go into REM sleep, which is dream sleep. And each stage is felt to be important because it gets you into that really important rejuvenative stage for the next day. your sleep really depends on, as I mentioned initially, the quality of your waking hours.
how you prepare for sleep. I'll talk about what you should avoid, what you should encourage. The sleeping environment. So it's not just who you're sleeping next to, but it's also the quality of your bed and your pillow and how dark it is. Then the quality of your sleep. So how well people sleep, I'll get into that. And then the 24 hour cycle. then there's what I call the five Rs of optimum sleep. Firstly, you must develop a routine. You must be relaxed when you go to sleep.
You want your temperature to be reduced as you go to sleep. The quality of your relationships. So you shouldn't be having a screaming argument with your partner just before you go to go to sleep. And then finally, you've got to be ready in the dark to get good sleep. So what should we be avoiding before we go to sleep? Well, the number one is relationship issues. Don't have screaming arguments with someone. Don't be all tense before you get into bed. Number two is don't exercise
for the two hours before you go to sleep. Now I wanna tell you a funny story, Homer, on that one. I've been doing radio now for over 25 years and I was doing this Sunday night radio program about 20 years ago and I was talking about the benefits of sleep but I did mention you shouldn't go for a run in the couple of hours before exercise. And this woman called Susan rang up and she said, Doctor, I just wanna ask you a question. You said you shouldn't exercise before sleep but what about lovemaking? That's a form of exercise.
Ross Walker (24:43.546)
I said, no, no, no, it's a completely different form of exercise. It's very good for you to make love before you go to sleep. It releases different brain chemicals. You get much better sleep. She said, thank you, doctor. My husband will be very happy to hear that. So anyhow, I'm driving home from the radio station. So every time I leave the radio, I always give my wife a call just to say hello. And she said to me, she said, what did you think about Susan? I said, she seemed like a nice lady. She said, it was me, you idiot.
Homer Papantonio (25:09.62)
Hahaha!
Ross Walker (25:11.301)
And she disguised a voice and I said to her, well, at least I gave the right answer. So lovemaking is very good. So number three, you shouldn't be eating in the two hours before sleep. a lot of people will get home late. It's nine, nine thirty. They got to go to bed in an hour and they have a big meal. It screws up your digestion, screws up all the chemicals you're supposed to be releasing to help you go to sleep. Number four.
Homer Papantonio (25:17.228)
That's beautiful.
Homer Papantonio (25:37.548)
But aren't there certain foods that induce sleep? Like, would you have turkey or meat?
Ross Walker (25:41.966)
Some, but not many. Not if you've got a big full belly.
Yeah, well, yeah, but again, Homer, you don't go to bed with a really full stomach. It's a bad thing to do. And going with that, number four is people shouldn't see alcohol as a sedative. Alcohol might get you off to sleep, but it completely screws your sleeping habit. Any other stimulants. people, there are people who, and I've got mates who can have a double shot latte before they go to sleep. If I have caffeine after about three or four o 'clock, it keeps me awake.
Homer Papantonio (25:51.882)
Yeah. Okay.
Homer Papantonio (26:02.806)
Mm.
Ross Walker (26:16.029)
because I'm a slow metaboliser of caffeine. Some people are rapid metabolisers, it doesn't matter. But certainly for most of us who are struggling with sleep, you don't have caffeine after about three or four o 'clock or other drugs. forgive, to give you an example there, many, many people are taking statin drugs for their cholesterol. I say to people, don't take the statins in the evening, take them in the morning. And most people are taking what's called Reserva statin or Crestor.
Homer Papantonio (26:20.566)
you
Ross Walker (26:45.223)
or atorvastatin or Lipitor, they're long acting drugs, they still work, take them in the morning. If you're on pravastatin or simvastatin, they're the short acting drugs, pravacol, Zocor, take them before your evening meal, but don't take them in three hours before sleep. And another thing you should avoid is falling asleep in front of the TV or with the radio or with the light on, it's a very bad thing to do. And get...
Homer Papantonio (27:09.484)
Can I just give you a personal, like I have one to two reads every night. I find if I have more than that, that's when I get the sleep interruption, you know, after a few hours. I find it does induce sleep. And the other question is, can you train yourself to...
Ross Walker (27:22.168)
Of course.
Of course.
Homer Papantonio (27:30.474)
have less sleep, like Winston Churchill, he only had four or five hours sleep. But did he train himself to do that or is it always...
Ross Walker (27:38.002)
No, no, it's physiologic. It's all genetic physiologic. Can I say that 70 % of people are genetically primed to be larks, which is go to bed early, wake up early. 30 % genetically primed to be night owls, go to bed late, wake up late. 10 % of people, and I can't stand these people, these are people who get onto a plane, put their head down, boom, they're asleep. The plane lands, they wake up. And 10 % of people are able to do that.
They can fall asleep at any time. They sleep beautifully. Sleep's not an issue for them. Of the other 90%, probably 30 % of those people are chronic insomniacs to some extent. And I've got the gene. My mother was a severe chronic insomniac. I'm not a great sleeper, but I do everything I can to get good sleep hygiene. So this is now a good segue into what we should encourage to get good sleep. Firstly is read. So, and not read an exciting novel. It's a page -turner, but by the...
By all means, can borrow one of my medical journals, you'll be asleep within five minutes. Have a warm bath or a shower in the hour before sleep because it cools down your body temperature. Have a warm non -caffeine based drink, something like chamomile tea. Meditation relaxation tapes are very good. And every night I go to sleep, I go into a meditative phase to try and help me sleep. And then as I mentioned before, a bit of lovemaking. And the other thing that I suggested is to get all electronics out of the bedroom.
So the bedroom is for two things and two things alone. One is for a thing called sleep and another one, that wonderful activity you get to do just before you go to sleep if you're lucky. So the real benefits of having those good night's sleeps are, as I mentioned, the repair, the rest, the rejuvenation. People who get better sleep tend to carry less weight. It clears your mind, there's emotional wellbeing. Then there's all the health issues that you've already alluded to that we'll go into.
Homer Papantonio (29:14.305)
Yeah, yeah.
Ross Walker (29:32.916)
My key tips for sleeping are timing, go to bed at the same time, wake up at the same time in the morning, have that consistent. So sleep regularity is very important. The dose for most of us, maybe not Winston Churchill, but for most of us is about seven to eight hours a night. Most of us need that. Sleep in a cool, dark room. It should be around 17 to 18 degrees. That's why a lot of people in summer really struggle to sleep.
if they don't have air conditioning or a fan because when your body heats up you can't sleep. No electronics and try and minimise noise.
Homer Papantonio (30:09.324)
So we can't leave this subject of sleep without talking about, subliminally at least, naps and how important it is to maybe have a 20 minute or half an hour siesta after lunch. And interestingly enough, this is what I asked you before about whether you can train your body to sleep. If you nap for a week and one day you decide not to nap,
your body somehow craves to have a nap at that same time. So that part of the psychadian rhythm is a cyclical thing that even naps come into the whole equation.
Ross Walker (30:55.048)
look, I think good quality napping is very good for you. A study of 23 ,000 Greeks showed that those who had an afternoon sleep had a 40 % reduction in cardiovascular disease. The working Greeks, there's not many of those left, about a 50 % reduction in cardiovascular disease. So an afternoon sleep, which should only go for about 30 minutes at the very most. So 20 to 30 minutes is good. But if you're sleeping for an hour a day in the afternoon, that's...
Homer Papantonio (31:08.637)
You
Ross Walker (31:23.52)
probably indicating you've got another sleep disorder that needs to be sorted out. And so you got to think about what can you do if you're a really poor sleeper? So it's been shown that things like cognitive behavioral therapy, so talking about your issues in life and working through all that does help. Hypnotherapy is good. Dream analysis, I mean, I'm not really too much into that. High quality nutrition, as you mentioned, and obviously regular exercise during the day is very good for you. And then there's a whole lot of...
herbal preparations that are highly effective for some people. And I certainly take a couple of pills every night, sleep pills every night that are natural that I find quite effective. And I can't mention them on air for all the reasons I've said. But then there are all the pharmaceuticals people take. And some people have a strong dependence on pharmaceuticals. And I don't encourage anyone to do so, but...
I still say poor quality sleep is worse than taking a small sleeping pill every day. There's the standard ones like Tamazepam, are just sedatives. They're not proper sleeping pills. Still, Knox has had a pretty bad press, but that's still highly effective if some people use it. There's an old style antidepressant called amitriptyline that's highly effective, especially for older people just to take in a very small dose, 10 milligrams at night. But it does have side effects once you get to the bigger doses.
There's an industrial strength sleeping pill called Metazapine, which are really reserved for people that just have severe insomnia. But I think the two best sleeping pills on the market, which again should be used sparingly, there's one called Zopiclone, it's 7 .5 milligrams, a half taken every now and then when you really need it. And the new one on the block is what's called an Erexan inhibitor called Suverexant.
That's 15 to 20 milligrams and that's quite effective as well. And then I just want to finish off mate by just talking about the sleep disorders. I've already mentioned around 30 % of population suffer insomnia. Now what's insomnia? It's not getting off to sleep after about 15 minutes of trying or waking up in the middle of the night and spending well over 15 minutes to get back to sleep. So that's really the definition of insomnia. The second one which is really, really common is sleep apnea.
Ross Walker (33:46.837)
And sleep apnea is there's two types really obstructive sleep apnea with the airway that the throat closes over when you get into a deeper sleep. So what happens is the airway closes over you're in a deep sleep. You either stay in a deep sleep and not breathe. That's a thing called death or you go to a lighter phase of sleep. So you never get proper rejuvenation for the next day. So people with sleep apnea wake up in the morning. They think, I've been asleep for seven to eight hours and I really need another two or three hours sleep.
and they drift off during the day inappropriately. They often have the micro sleeps when they're driving. And there are other less common things like restless leg syndrome, periodic leg movements, narcolepsy, but then other medical disorders, things like heart failure, chronic lung disease, chronic pain can affect your sleep. And you mentioned it as well in your years as a quantus fight attendant, all the problems with jet lag that people get. So.
Homer Papantonio (34:41.292)
What about sleepwalking?
Ross Walker (34:43.686)
yeah, sleep, sleepwalking and there's even sleep sex, sort of weird, weird things like that. They do occur, but really that's where you need to if you have any of these issues that need to be sorted out, there are now very good sleep physicians who deal with all of this. So the bottom line from all of this discussion is a good quality sleep is an essential part of your day. So the quality of your sleep at night will determine the quality of your day the next day.
Homer Papantonio (35:12.566)
So do athletes need more sleep than sedentary folk?
Ross Walker (35:17.05)
No, I think we, most of us need, apart from the, the 5 % of people that can have less sleep, most of us need between seven to eight hours a night. Less is very bad for you as is more. If you need nine to 10 hours of sleep, you still need to get your sleep sorted out.
Homer Papantonio (35:36.178)
My solution at night time as well as meditation is really to just give yourself to a higher power and just meditation is great too and prayer and stuff. Just cast your anxieties, your cares away. Okay we have a question. Charlie, one of our regulars, a good friend of mine, will tears of laughter be a natural solution to persistent dry eyes?
and what else could assist with this condition?
Ross Walker (36:06.577)
It's a really good question, Charlie. And let me say that at the moment, there are some standard treatments on the market that do help with the eyes. They lubricate the eyes and you just use them, especially at night time. One of the interesting things that people get dry eyes often sleep with their eyes partially open. So a little bit of tape on the on the eyes to close them at night time may help as well. But let me say it's being developed. should be available clinically very soon.
just to drop you put in once a week, that's a monoclonal antibody that actually starts to lubricate the eyes much more effectively as a weekly basis. there are, people are really struggling with dry eyes, there are ophthalmologists who make it their expertise to deal with this. And they can give you very directed therapies for dry eyes. But dry eyes is something that people should not suffer in silence. There are also medical conditions associated with dry eyes. The common one being a thing called Sjogren's syndrome.
but this is where you need to see an ophthalmologist to have it sorted out. If your eyes are a little bit uncomfortable, just even the standard drops that you get across the counter from the chemist can help as well, but certainly there's a lot of simple things you can do for dry eyes.
Homer Papantonio (37:19.99)
So this next question is from a good friend of mine. Hi Ross, I'm one of Homer's cycling buddies here. He's also a professor of physiotherapy. I've never met a professor of physio.
Ross Walker (37:28.463)
Hmm?
Ross Walker (37:32.837)
Very good.
Homer Papantonio (37:36.556)
Ross, I've been under cardiologist care for AF for a few years, two ablations and have been fine for close to 12 months now with no recurrences. Recently last month, no overt systems but on monitoring my heart rate I have noticed a different pattern to my usual AF which is usually a wildly fluctuating pulse rate. The new issue now is there seems to be a missing
beat, that is 4 beats at normal rate and then a gap where the 5th beat should be and then this pattern repeats 4 beats then one missing seems the usual but it can be 2 or 5 or 6 but can be normal with no missing beats at times also. Again this is quite different to my previous AF episode. Again no outward symptoms but didn't have
any with AF either. I have rained back my training and racing to keep my heart rate at least 20 beats below my maximum, which drove me a bit nut, but would be interested in your thoughts around what this new issue might be and also your thoughts around exercise levels. Most likely the trigger for the AF initially was years of endurance training and competing at high level, which is a known
trigger. Many thanks Richard.
Ross Walker (39:08.135)
Yeah, well Richard, it's very, very clear that I say all the time, exercise is the second best drug on the planet. The problem is, however, people who are high level exercises, a certain proportion, not everyone, a certain proportion of those people will have high rates of atherosclerosis because they're pushing the heart too hard with the genetic predisposition and a certain proportion of people will have high rates of cardiac dysrhythmias.
especially atrial fibrillation. So for example, there was a study done on veteran soccer players, old farts like me, who kicked a ball around over the age of 50, much higher rates of atrial fibrillation. As a cardiologist who's been doing this job for 45 years, I've seen so many high performance athletes who now in their 40s, 50s and 60s are getting palpitations. And it's the fact that they're pushing the electrical system just that bit too hard in their particular case.
Doesn't happen to everybody, but in their particular case, it's the body now saying, now listen, we've got to pull it back. Now what is happening to your heart, Richard? You've had the ablation, the fibrillation's been sorted out, hopefully. We don't know when it's going to recur. It may never occur. But once they've scarred bits of the heart with the ablation, there's always the potential, maybe in 10 or 15 years time, it may recur. But I say to all these people, and I've got to tell you a funny story, I...
I had a patient who was a semi -professional triathlete and every time in his 40s, every time he'd go into a race, he'd go into atrial fibrillation. And I said to him, the best thing you can do for your heart is get a jacket with coach written on the back. And he didn't sort of get what I was inferring. So what I'm saying to you, Rich, is I agree. Look, I know you love doing your exercise and exercise is a form of addiction. And all of us who are exercise, I if I don't do my bike every day, I feel a bit, you know, I've got to get on the bike.
Homer Papantonio (40:44.697)
Ha
Ross Walker (41:01.67)
even though I don't get on the bike so well, this is so much fun to see on an exercise bike. But it's still there is an addictive component to that. And it's a much better addiction than some of the addiction some people have. But still, once you get to the point of getting these symptomatic ectopics, which is what you're now getting, and that's coming more probably from the ventricle than from the atrium, although you've got to actually find out whether it's ventricular ectopics or atrial ectopics and the best way to do that if this is happening very commonly.
You can get a thing from your cardiologist called a heart bug. And the heart bug you just take with you and you keep it for about a month. And as soon as you feel the symptoms, you press the button and it records an ECG. So it'll make a firm diagnosis. Is it ventricular ectopics you're getting or is it atrial ectopics? They're both pretty benign. And what I tend to do in this situation, and you alluded to this question before, I give people some form of omega -3 and magnesium.
before I have to go to the pharmaceutical drugs because these things are very benign. They're not like atrial fibrillation. Atrial fibrillation is much more serious because if that's not treated, especially over the age of 65, you markedly increase your risk for a stroke and also it can impair the pumping action of the heart. But once you've had that treated, the ectopics themselves are just annoying and feel a bit uncomfortable, but they won't reduce your lifespan or make you have sudden cardiac death or anything at all like that.
So really, the management of this is pretty straightforward. I would pull back the exercise a bit. I would have some form of omega -3 and a magnesium preparation. Let's just see what happens. We can use pharmacology if it gets very bad and it's really uncomfortable for you, but it's completely benign. It's nothing to worry about.
Homer Papantonio (42:49.196)
Yeah, and I get, I bump into triathletes, I've done like 100 triathlons over the years, and I bump into triathletes who have exactly what Richard's got here. And to me it seems like they're, and you'd know also as to the number of 50, 60 year old, 70 year old triathletes, former triathletes or current triathletes that still come and see you, they're pioneering a...
Ross Walker (43:02.004)
Hmm.
Homer Papantonio (43:17.353)
a ridiculous level of exercise, especially the full distance Hawaii one. And correct me if I'm wrong, there's no other time in civilization where they've exercised at that level for that duration of time.
Ross Walker (43:33.695)
Yeah, yeah, and that's the point. No one really knows. And the point I'm making from this, it's not going to happen to everyone. So this is what really annoys me with many of the things the public say to me when they say, but doctor, I know someone who's 95 years old, still goes to the gym, doesn't have any problems. Yeah, that's one example. That's an anecdote. I'm saying if you look at clinical trials, there is a higher rate of cardiac dysrhythmias in higher level exercises.
Doesn't mean everyone's going to get it. And that's.
Homer Papantonio (44:04.908)
But is the culprit the exercise or is it as you alluded to not having the right nutrients that actually avoid it?
Ross Walker (44:11.585)
No, I think it's their genes with the level of exercise they're doing. So it's that particular person in their case. So you've got to take each case as individual as I always do in my practice and say, look, in your case, this level of exercise is not good for your body. Just pull it back a bit. I never say to anyone, stop exercising. I'm just saying, don't do as much.
Homer Papantonio (44:35.404)
Yeah. Okay. But magnesium omega -3, maybe cow enzymes, really important because I've had those pretty much for the last 20 years.
Ross Walker (44:43.208)
Yeah, the coenzyme Q10 should be ubiquinol, not ubiquinone, but coenzyme Q10 doesn't do anything to the electrics in the heart. It's good for other reasons. It keeps your muscles strong, but it doesn't affect the electrics. What affects the electrics are magnesium and the omega -3s.
Homer Papantonio (44:48.075)
Yeah.
Homer Papantonio (45:01.59)
Another question from Doug in Kalgoorlie. He says, really like your podcast? I visited my mother in aged care and she had an issue with toe fungus and associated blotches and red marks on her ankles and feet. What is a possible natural solution for this? I don't know why he said natural.
Ross Walker (45:21.032)
Well, again, if she's getting blotches on her ankles and feet, as I say all times in medicine, you don't just go for some natural tonic, you go for a diagnosis. And I don't think this is just toe fungus. I think there's something else going on. She may have problems with the arteries going into her legs. She needs to have full work up. There's a thing called a Doppler arteriography where you just have a Doppler of the vascular Doppler of the legs looking at the arteries. What's a blood flow doing?
What are her veins doing? Is there something else going on? Has she had a swab of the foot? So just to say it's a toe fungus doesn't mean it's a toe fungus. And there's no natural therapies for toe fungi anyhow, but there are effective medical therapies that do work to get rid of a toe fungus. But this does not sound like a toe fungus to me. It sounds like there's more going on and she needs a proper medical worker.
Homer Papantonio (46:15.372)
Okay. Katarina in Melbourne, loving your show, keep up the good work. The question is about my husband. I'm concerned that he has a bowel movement at least five times a day. Is this normal?
Ross Walker (46:27.999)
Yep. No, no, it's not normal. And look, some people might have two or three bowel movements a day, and that could be completely normal for them. But once once people get up to having five bowel actions a day, there's probably something else going on. How long has it been going on for? Is it just something new? But there could be some form of malabsorption. There could be some infection. There could be something more serious going on. But when someone has something like that, I think they should be referred.
to a gastroenterologist and have a full workup to find out what the cause is.
Homer Papantonio (47:00.428)
But if they had that, they've been doing this for five, ten years and they've had colonoscopies and they're fine. Yeah, okay.
Ross Walker (47:06.993)
well, then that's just what they're doing. They're an outlier. And see, there's always the outliers where you'll investigate them till the cows come home and find nothing. But you see, I say all the time that almost everyone living in our society has a degree of gut dysbiosis, which means the bacteria living in our colon are not particularly healthy. And the reason is because of the ultra processed food, the widespread use of antibiotics, the fact that
that we're living longer and so as we get older, the bacteria in our gut changes. There's so many things that are going on and the fact that people just don't have enough fruit and vegetables every day, they're not taking high quality probiotics and with the increasing rates of caesarean birth. Now, when you don't go through the birth canal and pick up the bacteria from the mother's vagina, that changes your gut bacteria as well. So there's a lot of reasons for gut dysbiosis.
And so many people do have altered gut function. there are high quality probiotics. you want to send in an email, I'm happy to give them the, send an email to our website. I'm happy to give them those probiotics. I just can't say it on air.
Homer Papantonio (48:18.956)
Yep. Last one's from Patrick in Sydney. What are the practical ways of maintaining dental health in advanced years over 50, 60 and 70? Because it's an area we haven't discussed pretty much about dental health yet.
Ross Walker (48:35.127)
Yeah, well, on my radio show every week, we have a dentist coming on and talking about all of these things. look, it's stock standard advice. It's very simple. Go to the dentist. So you go to the dentist every six months, have your teeth cleaned. People should be flossing every day. And not many people floss on a daily basis. I certainly do, but a lot of people don't. Use high quality toothbrush. And you don't want to be scrubbing all the enamel off your teeth. They're the important things to do.
Homer Papantonio (48:46.944)
Yeah.
Ross Walker (49:05.027)
And I don't think people should be using a lot of mouthwash. I don't like mouthwash being used that often. And eating good quality food. So having the fruits and vegetables is so good, not just for the gut microbiome, but we also have the oral microbiome. But I think it's the dental checkups that are very, very important. And people need to realize that having periodontitis or inflammation in the gums,
can be a marker for inflammation in the rest of the body and also spill over inflammatory tissue into the body that can increase your risk for cardiovascular disease. For example, there's a relatively uncommon condition called endocarditis where you get infection on the heart valve. So if you've got very poor dentition, the bugs might spill into your bloodstream, end up on a heart valve and cause all sorts of problems as well.
Homer Papantonio (49:41.196)
Yeah.
Homer Papantonio (49:56.96)
Good. I think that's about it for this week Ross. We've got all we have today. We thank everyone for tuning in. Please share this podcast with all your friends on social media. The website is seriouslyfunnywellbeing .com and we look forward to seeing you next week. Bye.
Ross Walker (50:18.693)
Bye.