12:1 Now concerning1 spiritual gifts,2 brothers,3 I do not want you to be uninformed. 2 You know that when you were pagans you were led astray to mute idols, however you were led. 3 Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says “Jesus is accursed!” and no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except in the Holy Spirit.
4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; 5 and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; 6 and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. 7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.
One Body with Many Members
12 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves4 or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.
14 For the body does not consist of one member but of many. 15 If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would be the sense of hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the sense of smell? 18 But as it is, God arranged the members in the body, each one of them, as he chose. 19 If all were a single member, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts,5 yet one body.
21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you,” nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” 22 On the contrary, the parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and on those parts of the body that we think less honorable we bestow the greater honor, and our unpresentable parts are treated with greater modesty, 24 which our more presentable parts do not require. But God has so composed the body, giving greater honor to the part that lacked it, 25 that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. 26 If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.
27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. 28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the higher gifts.
And I will show you a still more excellent way.
Footnotes
[1]12:1The expression Now concerning introduces a reply to a question in the Corinthians’ letter; see 7:1 [2]12:1Or spiritual persons [3]12:1Or brothers and sisters [4]12:13For the contextual rendering of the Greek word doulos, see Preface [5]12:20Or members; also verse 22
12:1 Now concerning1 spiritual gifts,2 brothers,3 I do not want you to be uninformed. 2 You know that when you were pagans you were led astray to mute idols, however you were led. 3 Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says “Jesus is accursed!” and no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except in the Holy Spirit.
4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; 5 and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; 6 and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. 7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.
One Body with Many Members
12 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves4 or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.
14 For the body does not consist of one member but of many. 15 If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would be the sense of hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the sense of smell? 18 But as it is, God arranged the members in the body, each one of them, as he chose. 19 If all were a single member, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts,5 yet one body.
21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you,” nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” 22 On the contrary, the parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and on those parts of the body that we think less honorable we bestow the greater honor, and our unpresentable parts are treated with greater modesty, 24 which our more presentable parts do not require. But God has so composed the body, giving greater honor to the part that lacked it, 25 that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. 26 If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.
27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. 28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the higher gifts.
And I will show you a still more excellent way.
Footnotes
[1]12:1The expression Now concerning introduces a reply to a question in the Corinthians’ letter; see 7:1 [2]12:1Or spiritual persons [3]12:1Or brothers and sisters [4]12:13For the contextual rendering of the Greek word doulos, see Preface [5]12:20Or members; also verse 22
Redeemer exists to celebrate and declare the gospel of God as we grow in knowing and following Jesus Christ.
Joel Brooks:
Tonight, I'm gonna do something a little different, and I'm just gonna do some introductory remarks on this, and I'm going to let you ask questions. And so you could go ahead and be thinking of questions. Now a couple of guidelines or rules about this, it's not stump the teacher. That's, that's actually not a hard thing to do. And so don't, you know, pull out some random, you know, prophecy in the Old Testament and ask how it compares to the 40th week of Daniel and the Holy Spirit.
Joel Brooks:
I won't know. But if you have a genuine question, I would love for you guys to ask that and we can sort through that. And I will have to say this just as a as a precursor, I'm not sharp as I would like to be tonight because Lauren and I, we we really didn't sleep at all last night. We're in this new house, and you know the, we're in our rental home, and the storm's happening. Last time the storm happened, you know, the, tree took out our house.
Joel Brooks:
So we're already we're just we're freaked out, And then we keep hearing things. And twice, I went downstairs to just check on things, because I kept thinking we were hearing something. And, you know, new home, weird. Well, at about 2 o'clock, 1 30, 2 o'clock, somebody's knocking on our door, which always kind of freaks you out. It's a police officer, and I open it up and he goes, Yes, I'm responding to the 911 call I got here.
Joel Brooks:
Like, I didn't call 911. Said, this is 592-4566? It's like, yes it is. It's like 911 call came from right here. So now we're a little freaked, you know, going upstairs, kids are asleep, everybody's asleep.
Joel Brooks:
And so we just checked the entire house, Nothing's there, but, you know, Lauren and I, we laid back down. I'm like, are you sleeping? No. I'm not sleeping. So that's, that was, we haven't slept since.
Joel Brooks:
And so hopefully my answers will make a little sense to you. But if not, I'm that's the reason why. I'm gonna claim that. Up to this point in 1st Corinthians, Paul has dealt with a number of issues, a number of very specific sins. The sin that he has addressed primarily has been one of relationships.
Joel Brooks:
One that involve, community. There's Christians, they've been suing one another, they have been in sexually immoral relationships, they've been slandering one another. We skipped over chapter 11, which was about people getting drunk at communion. And Paul says, no, no, don't get drunk. Actually serve one another.
Joel Brooks:
And he reminds them about what the Lord Jesus did at that meal. And so what we're seeing is that although the Lord had caused or called the Corinthian church to be a city on a hill, to be this radically new community, they were actually becoming very self centered, very individualistic. This had crept into even how they viewed spiritual gifts. And these were gifts that God had given them. And what they were doing is, they were taking these gifts that God had given them to serve the church, and they were actually turning them back to serve themselves.
Joel Brooks:
The gifts that God had given had become something of a very individualistic nature. And in many ways, Paul saves chapters 12 through 14 about spiritual gifts, as as the pinnacle of their sins. He's saying, look, you're so selfish, even the very spiritual gifts God gives you, are all about you and not serving the church. And so that is what chapters 12 through 14 are about. Now let me give you my definition of a spiritual gift.
Joel Brooks:
This is my definition. I think it's a biblical one. It's an ability given and empowered by the Holy Spirit in order to strengthen the faith of others until Christ returns. It's an ability given and empowered by the Holy Spirit in order to strengthen the faith of others until Christ returns. There's a bunch of different lists of spiritual gifts in the bible.
Joel Brooks:
You'll find at least three lists. You'll find in Romans 12, 1 Corinthians 12, and in Ephesians 4. It's not an exhaustive list. And you get the sense when Paul's listing those things that, he's just he's rattling off a number of them, but you know things like leading worship, I would consider a spiritual gift. Intercessory prayer, I would consider a spiritual gift.
Joel Brooks:
And yeah, those aren't things that are listed. And so it's not, if you're trying to find your spiritual gift and how to use this, don't think that's an exhaustive list at all, the representative of many. All of the gifts fall into 1 of 2 categories. 1st Corinth or 1st Peter 4:10 says, as each has received his gift, use it to serve one another as good stewards of God's very grace. Whoever speaks, as one who speaks oracles of God.
Joel Brooks:
Whoever serves, as one who serves by the strength that God supplies. And so you have gifts that involve speaking, as gifts of preaching, teaching, tongues, interpretation of tongues, prophecy, things like that. Then you have gifts of service, administration, encouraging, encouragement, giving, things like that. So you have those 2 main categories of gifts. But then Paul says, as we just read in chapter 12 and verse 7, he says, To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.
Joel Brooks:
Every believer has been given some ability empowered by the Holy Spirit. Something, whether speaking or serving, you have been given something for the good of the body. Not to pat yourself on the back, but for the good of the body. And it we need to be employing those gifts in service of the Lord. Now what's interesting is, and I'm gonna stop right after this and let you guys ask questions, the, if you if you study through church history, very little is said about spiritual gifts.
Joel Brooks:
Very little. I mean if you read through Augustine, or if you go jump way up to to Calvin, to Baxter, to Charles Wesley even and and or John Wesley, you're you're gonna find very little explicit about spiritual gifts. And what you find is they've just kind of assumed people would know and they would be using them. And then in the 20th century, we kind of had this spiritual gift explosion, in which we've had a lot of the, you know, spiritual gift inventory test and you know, how to define your spiritual gift and we'll talk about that in a little bit. But this is somewhat of a recent phenomenon and the the fixation of spiritual gifts.
Joel Brooks:
I appreciate a lot of it, and we're gonna talk about what I appreciate about this, and I think some of it is also a little bit dangerous. So that's my introduction. And so somebody's gonna have to get us started, if not, it's gonna be a very short service. So what questions do you have about spiritual gifts in general? Does it have to be confined to this text in chapter 12 through 14 in 1st Corinthians, but what questions do you have?
Joel Brooks:
Blake? Yeah, how do you discern a talent from a spiritual gift? Yeah, it's it's really hard because you have people like Charles Spurgeon, who had the gift, you know, obviously of preaching. And some people said that if he didn't go into preaching, he could have he was so eloquent and so smart, he could have been the prime minister. And, and so when he was filled with the spirit, his preaching dynamic didn't change.
Joel Brooks:
I mean his speaking ability didn't change. You have somebody like Dwight Moody, who on this side of the pond, you know he was a horrible speaker. And he was filled with the Spirit, God told him to speak, and the results were the same. In which it was whether you can't look at actually the talent there, but in the calling that when they they did the task that God had told them to do, the results were were both amazing there. But if you were to look at them from a worldly standpoint, you'd be like, well Charles Wesley has all the speaking ability, or Charles Wesley, Charles Spurgeon in the world, and Dwight Moody's got nothing.
Joel Brooks:
Both were incredibly used by the Lord. And so I think the the difference between an ability and a talent is more of, you see the fruit when you obey, and you might not necessarily see that with a talent. Good question. Somebody else. I don't know why I'm fixated on Charles Wesley tonight.
Joel Brooks:
That's twice I brought up his name. Great hymn writer. That's fine. Well, everything you have is given from God. Everything you have is given from God, but there is a special gift upon the receiving of the Holy Spirit when you become a believer.
Joel Brooks:
He equips you in a unique way for service that you did not have before. Kate.
Connor Coskery:
There are circles that are making a distinction between a heard language and speaking in tongues.
Joel Brooks:
Okay.
Connor Coskery:
Can you I'm just gonna leave it there. Can you respond to that? Okay.
Joel Brooks:
The have a common distinction. Gotcha. It's it's not been a question is is well, the question was is there in certain circles, and you find this a lot here in Birmingham, there's a lot of, issues about tongues or a prayer language. Let me take one step back, if I could. I feel like I need to answer this before you even get to tongues, Because you can divide the gifts into 2 main areas, what we would call miraculous gifts, supernatural gifts, and ordinary gifts.
Joel Brooks:
Getting up here and speaking to y'all, ordinary. Any one of you could get up here do that, you know, but if I were to get up and heal somebody, well not everybody can do that, that's miraculous. And, so a lot of people, they they divide the gifts into miraculous gifts. That would be tongues, interpretation of tongues, prophecy, healings, working of miracles, things of that nature. Ordinary gifts, giving, encouragement, hospitality, things you can fake, you know, or you can fake a lot of the others.
Joel Brooks:
I don't think scripture doesn't make any distinction between the 2. And so I don't think Paul would make a distinction between the 2. And and you've certainly heard really really bad bad teaching even from a great speaker. And so you realize that, no, the Holy Spirit is definitely needed on both sides, or both in a sense miraculous. Other question that that kind of goes with that is, well what about those supernatural gifts like tongues, like a prayer language, are they for today?
Joel Brooks:
That's kind of the larger area because you have 2 major camps, what we would call cessationists, which do not believe the miraculous gifts exist today. And then you would have non cessationists that believe the miraculous gifts do exist today. Two big camps, I won't name denominations or anything, both misunderstand each other. It's it's quite almost humorous to see the accusations that go back and forth. Somebody who is, a non cessationist, who believes in the miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit will look at a, cessation and say, You don't believe in miracles.
Joel Brooks:
You don't believe that God can heal people. That's not the case at all. No. Now, and you know, let's say a Presbyterian who is a cessationist. If they pray for a person's healing, they still hope, and I could say some even expect God to heal, that's not the issue there.
Joel Brooks:
What they don't believe is that there is actually a gift of it. That there will be somebody who is known as there is the healer. You know, there is the one who speaks in tongues. But they do believe that the miraculous still happens. Now, I personally, I believe that the gifts are in operation today, all of them.
Joel Brooks:
What we just read in 1st Corinthians, well actually, 1st Corinthians 13. Well, let's look at that. 1st Corinthians 13. This is the passage that's used to defend both views. Sorry I didn't want to land on this too long and I will get to prayer language.
Joel Brooks:
Verse 8, love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away. As for tongues, they will cease. As for knowledge, it will pass away. Right there, cessationist people say, look, see, this stuff ends.
Joel Brooks:
It ends. It was for a season, it was for the time of the apostles, so the apostles could do these miracles, so people would know they're men of God and they could write the Bible. For we know in part and we prophesy When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
Joel Brooks:
And so Paul says, For we know in part, we prophesy in part, but when the the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. A cessationist says that when the perfect comes, that perfect is scripture. After the apostles did all their miracles and we had the Bible written, that's the perfect, then the other things can fade away. Tongues can fade away, prophecies can fade away, all that can fade away, now that we have the Bible. I I think that is a serious case of mental gymnastics, to do that.
Joel Brooks:
I think it's clearly talking about when Jesus returns. That's when we see face to face. And if you look at 1st Corinthians chapter 1 verse 7, it says that you are not lacking in any spiritual gift as you eagerly await for our Savior's return, and it ties in, you have every gift as you wait for Jesus's return. So I do believe both are in existence. When I think it has happened in the gift of tongues, and I've never experienced that, I do believe it exists, as most Christians have thrown out the baby with the bathwater.
Joel Brooks:
You see it abused, therefore get get rid of it. You see it abused, and, do you wanna close that door? Thank you. Which is a tragedy because you you really might have people who have that gift, and then they have to get out of this church. And so what they're gonna do, and you've seen this happen, they congregate with everybody else who has that gift.
Joel Brooks:
And so now all of a sudden you have a church full of people who speak in tongues, but there's no teachers. You know, everybody has a gift to teaching, well they're over here. You know, and so of course then it just kind of feeds itself, they go more and more into error. And we've seen that in a lot of the, the Pentecostal errors. Now the difference, now what you were asking is there a difference between tongues and prayer language?
Joel Brooks:
And, I'd say yes in how prayer language is defined today, which is different than praying in tongues as Paul defines it. Paul says, when you pray in a tongue, you're talking to God. I think he says that in 142. Yeah, for one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God, alright. We're speak, we're praying to God there.
Joel Brooks:
But this is not something better than normal prayer. A matter of fact, Paul later he says, I would rather speak 5 intelligent words and 10,000 in tongues. This isn't better, and that's where I see the distinction which is now being taught about prayer language is, this is the way to pray. I've heard it said that, you know, this is DSL, you know, and normal prayer is dial up connection. And the, which is fine, you can talk with God.
Joel Brooks:
You can talk with God, you know, use dial up, it's a little slower, not as powerful. Prayer language is DSL. The problem that I have with that, and there's a few, as a believer, the Bible tells me Romans 8 says that, The Spirit of God is already interceding for me. Hebrews says that, Jesus is already interceding for me when I pray. So how can you top that?
Joel Brooks:
I mean, how the Holy Spirit intercedes for me when I pray, Jesus intercedes for me when I pray, And so there isn't some the power of prayer is there. And, I don't see it as something separate. Another thing, prayer language is often said everybody has a prayer language, and Paul clearly says that not everybody has the gift of tongues. Although he does wish all of you had it, he recognizes that not everybody does. He also wishes that everybody had the gift of singleness.
Joel Brooks:
And you don't hear people going around saying, yes, you know, everybody, that's what you need to hold on to. You know, it's interesting how we gravitate towards one or the other. Good question. Sorry for the long answer, had to back up a little bit. Next question.
Jeffrey Heine:
Oh, Jamie.
Joel Brooks:
I think there's a danger of it. You see that when Paul's talking to Timothy. And 1st Timothy says, don't neglect note don't neglect the gift that you have. And then in 2nd Timothy says, Fan it into flame. And which is like blow on the embers, it's about to die out.
Joel Brooks:
And for Timothy it was preaching, which shows that a lot of Christians make a colossal mistake when they think of spiritual gifts. They tend to think of it as, If I like it, it's my gift. You know, alright I enjoy doing this therefore the Lord has gifted me doing this. Well, you don't have to remind somebody to keep doing what they enjoy. And what you get is a sense of Timothy, he knows he's called to preach through the prophetic laying on of hands, he was given the gift of preaching and he's this young guy and he's like, I don't want to preach.
Joel Brooks:
And so he looks for opportunities not to do it and Paul's saying, don't neglect it, ban it
Jeffrey Heine:
in the
Joel Brooks:
flame. And so that is not an indicator. A lot of times they they do go together, it's it's the natural movement of your heart, but it's not always. And I would even say for me, preaching was that way absolutely for the first 5 years. I knew the Lord had gifted me to preach, I knew He wanted me to preach, I'd be hugging trash cans and throwing up because I didn't want to preach.
Joel Brooks:
It was one of those, I don't want to do this, but it's my gifting. Good question. Anybody else? Alright. I saw a few elbows, people like elbowing the person next to them to ask a question.
Joel Brooks:
Go ahead, Patrick. Kind of spring boarding off of that, do your gifts change? Do you have any additional gifts Scripture doesn't say if they change or not. You know, certainly it shows some people with multiple gifts. So at least, you know, you could probably keep adding gifts.
Joel Brooks:
And Paul on it, you know if he tells you to desire the greater gifts, that gives the indication, yeah you have some gifts now desire greater ones. What's really interesting though is people take that verse and are like, okay you're supposed to be praying for all these additional gifts, backtrack. Paul actually says, pursue love, desire these greater gifts. Now, he doesn't say pursue the other gifts. He says, You want to pursue something?
Joel Brooks:
Pursue love. Basically pursue community, pursue serving one another. And in the midst of that, you can desire to have these other things, but this is what you run after, loving one another. Pursue love, desire the the greater gifts. Good question.
Joel Brooks:
The question here is, what is prophecy? Prophecy, you have to think of what Paul is talking about here as something different than Old Testament prophecy. An Old Testament prophet walks in says, thus saith the Lord. There it is. I mean, you might as well write it down.
Joel Brooks:
It's just the word of God. New testament prophecy is not that. Actually one of the main reasons there are cessationists is over the issue of prophecy because they say, hey, if prophecy still exists, you might as well leave blank pages in your Bible. And anytime somebody gets up and says, I have a word from the Lord, write it in. You know, it's an open canon, we just keep writing the word of God.
Joel Brooks:
And that's a misunderstanding of what prophecy looks like. Turn to Acts 21. Yeah. I'm hoping this is right. It might be 20.
Joel Brooks:
I'm thinking it's 21. Yeah. Verse 4. This is Paul, he's on a journey going to Jerusalem. Says, And having sought out the disciples, we stayed there for 7 days and through the Spirit they were telling Paul not to go on to Jerusalem.
Joel Brooks:
Alright, so they have this prophetic word, through the spirit they say, Paul don't go to Jerusalem. You know what Paul does? He goes to Jerusalem. I mean that's just bizarre. It says, through the spirit of community, they gather together, they're praying, they get this word and they say, Paul, you are not supposed to go to Jerusalem.
Joel Brooks:
Paul says, Uh-huh, okay. And he goes to Jerusalem. And and there is a great picture, I think, of New Testament prophecy, in which when when a prophetic word is given, 1st Thessalonians and also 1st Corinthians it says, Weigh what is said. Weigh what is said. Judge.
Joel Brooks:
See if this is truly from the Lord. The the revelation given from God is without error. The communication of it, there can be error. Judge it. And what was likely going on here is these people through the spirit, they saw Paul getting bound, Paul being thrown in jail, like Agabus had earlier, they interpreted that as, Paul, you're not supposed to go.
Joel Brooks:
And the error was in the communication. And so New Testament prophecy can have error in it. A New Testament prophet, I should say, that comes up. The apostles in the New Testament are like the Old Testament prophets, just the apostles. I think all of us to some degree have experienced probably a taste of the gift of prophecy.
Joel Brooks:
And I've used this illustration before, but if you're driving down the road somewhere, you know, just kind of spaced out, and all of a sudden God says, hey, pray for Kate. Joel, pray for Kate right now. I go, okay. So I start praying for Kate. Alright.
Joel Brooks:
Then the next week I'm talking to Kate, and like, you know the Lord put on my mind to pray for you. She's like, when? I said, this time. She was like, oh my gosh. I was having the absolute worst time.
Joel Brooks:
I just got a phone call, one of my friends was killed in car accident or something like that, and I just really needed prayer. That is a hint of what prophecy is, in which spontaneously God communicates something to you, in order for you to do something. And so a lot of us have probably experienced that. Now prophecy in a church setting is God communicates something to you to tell others. So here would be, I stand up and say, all of us, I want us to pray for Kate.
Joel Brooks:
I really believe that the Lord has told me that we need to be praying for Kate right now. Sorry, I keep mentioning you. And so, but I think all of us have tasted it in a little degree, prophecy is when it is in a corporate setting. Good question. Anybody else?
Joel Brooks:
Chapter 12, verse 3. Yeah. There's a lot written about this Jesus is accursed, and no one can say Jesus is Lord except in the Holy Spirit. Without going into all of it, Paul's not saying it's the words you say like, no, an unbeliever can't say Jesus is Lord, unless the I mean, you have to be a believer to say that. It's basically just like, say it and mean it.
Joel Brooks:
To say it and mean it, that Jesus is Lord. The accursed part, some are wondering if people are actually trying to curse, that they're saying, I curse you in the name of Jesus, instead of Jesus is cursed. You really can't tell what it is there, and I just don't have an answer for you. But don't do it. What, you know, just this it is clear about that.
Joel Brooks:
What whatever it is. Don't say Jesus is a curse or curse people
Jeffrey Heine:
in the name of Jesus. Go ahead.
Connor Coskery:
How as a church are we supposed to, like, approach theory of, like, suffering and, like, that we're supposed to live, like, life is not gonna be perfect,
Joel Brooks:
Yeah, that's a great question. It's, how do we as a church believe in a gift of healing, and yet also realize God's called us to suffer? We live in this unique period of time in which there is, the clash of kingdoms, there's an overlap, in which the Kingdom of God has broken through in Jesus and through his resurrection, broken through in the gift of the Spirit, yet the old kingdom is not dissolved. And so there are times it's this clash of kingdoms. There are times when God heals, and there time when he doesn't heal.
Joel Brooks:
And we don't know. This is how I approach we should pray concerning, you know, like, if somebody comes to me and they're sick, do I pray for their healing or do I not? You know, most people that they do the cop out. I do it a lot of times. Lord your will be done, you know, and you know cop out.
Joel Brooks:
You really I avoided a prayer of faith. And there's instances all over the Bible, some people just know you have to have faith and that God will heal the person or faith that God will do what He wants. You have both instances, that you either pray for the Lord's will or you pray what you will at that moment. And what I say is, pray the Lord's revealed will. And so we know that when the kingdom does come, there will be no death, there will be no sickness, there will be no more sorrow.
Joel Brooks:
And so we can know that ultimately that is God's will, ultimately. And so I usually pray for that. And so I usually I will pray for healing, I will pray for end of suffering, and those things, until I feel God turning, saying, That's not no, not at this time. Like Paul, Remove this thorn, remove it, remove it. And then God's like, no, don't ask me anymore, my grace is sufficient.
Joel Brooks:
And I think that's, you know, you find that in Jesus. Remove this cup from me. He prayed, that's what I want. And then if then the Lord changes, it's like, nevertheless your will be done. So if I do say pray the Lord's will, what we know it ultimately will be.
Joel Brooks:
Next question. I'll take a a couple more. Good questions, by the way. We're gonna do some just so you know at at Redeemer. We're gonna do some coffee houses, probably go to, Brian Johnson's loft downtown and maybe on Monday nights, not every Monday night, but maybe once a month, we'll do theological coffee houses, and we'll have settings like this where you just kind of ask questions.
Joel Brooks:
That's one of the things we want to do at Redeemer. Anybody else? Thomas. Okay. The question is if the gifts exist for the good of the body, how do we know what gifts we have or we don't have?
Joel Brooks:
It is yes. How do we evaluate if Yeah, if we really have these gifts, you know, if we want to serve the church, how do we know if we really have this gift or not to serve the church, is the question. And so usually, I say, well, we need community. Like somebody might say, I really have the gift of singing. And everybody else is like, well, God's gonna have to give us all the gift of hearing, you know, in in order for you to get up there.
Joel Brooks:
And there there's a lot of people who are like, I mean, they're passionate about this, and but everybody else is like, no. And it's that way. Other people see your gifts more than you do. You know, my mom, just a few years ago, she was in tears and she said, I only know what my spiritual gift is. I've been a Christian for like 45 years, I don't know what it is.
Joel Brooks:
I'm thinking, mom, it's hospitality. I grew up our entire life, we had people in our house, and you were just so generous to them. It's so obvious, and she couldn't see it. And so I think other Christians, that's why we need to be in community, they could point out and say, it's so obvious. When you teach, I get so much from it.
Joel Brooks:
Not when I teach, I really feel good about it. So when you teach, it benefits the body. I think that's how we see it. And the only way you really know if you have these gifts is you see a need and you go after it. I mean, that's that's what you you look at a need, say God gift me to do this, see if it fails or not.
Jeffrey Heine:
Question.
Joel Brooks:
Paul Paul says prophecy is a great gift, because it one of the things is it can reveal sin. It can reveal the direction for a church. That's why it does say earnestly desire, especially that not prophesy. Blake. I don't know.
Joel Brooks:
There you go. I'm not going to make up answers, and so I promise you guys I won't ever do that. Don't know. So I'll do one more since that was really kind of a that was a wash. Let's end on that one.
Joel Brooks:
Anybody else? Jessica. I think it matters that you're serving. It doesn't matter if you know your spiritual gift. You know, how many just survey, how many of you done a spiritual gifts inventory whatever test?
Joel Brooks:
Yeah, they're they're bogus. I mean the questions, the way they're phrased is like, when you have somebody come over to your house, A, you're going to love them. B, you're going to like hit them and yell at them. Which is more your personality? And you're like, well of course.
Joel Brooks:
You always choose what you want, not what you are. And so those those those tests are just, they're bogus. The important thing is that you're serving. Now that's why I said there's a recent phenomenon in the church, this fixation on spiritual gifts. And it's because of the individualistic nature of it, which is what Paul's trying to rebuke.
Joel Brooks:
Everybody's looking inwardly going, what's my gift? What's my gift? And Paul goes, no, look outwardly. Look, there's a need, there's a need, there's a need, there's a need. Pursue love.
Joel Brooks:
And so that's the thing is you look where the needs are and you go after it. And not just try to get this awareness of what is my spiritual gift. The gifts aren't about you. And just I'll close on this, the gifts also are not any indication of your spiritual life. Which is I think the reason people turn so inward in their spiritual gifts, they think, If I have this gift, I am someone.
Joel Brooks:
I have tongues, undeniably God's with me. There it is, I'm someone. And no, spiritual fruit is the indication of where you are spiritually, not your gifts. Your gifts are what you do, your your the fruits are who you are. And we're always supposed to be growing in all of the spiritual fruits, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, self control.
Joel Brooks:
That's what's supposed to mark us when we're growing in. I have known some of the most pagan preachers, living, I mean, they're just having affairs. And before that ever became public, I would listen to them and I was blown away. I was blown away. Convicted.
Joel Brooks:
It's like, wow, see that person so incredibly used, spiritually falling apart. Your gifts are not an indication of where you are. And so don't rest, let's say, if you have a gift of giving, you're like, wow, I'm giving a ton. I'm really doing I'm my walk with the Lord is great. No.
Joel Brooks:
It means your gift is doing great. Are you growing in the fruit? I was really hospitable this week. Well, that's great, but are you growing in fruit? And so, anyway, we need to be pursuing the fruits of the spirit, and pursuing opportunities to serve one another.
Joel Brooks:
Let's, I wanna do this real quick. I think this is important for us as a church, and we'll, we're gonna huddle up real quick. You wanna move chairs, just huddle. We're gonna make an organized, disorganized mess of it all. And, I want us to pray for as a church, we're very young, and I mean only a few months.
Joel Brooks:
I want us to pray that the Lord would gift us, and we've prayed this before, as he sees fit, not as we see fit. And I want us to pray that he would open up our eyes to how we can serve one another, that he would open up our eyes to how we can serve one another, and that he would gift us as he sees fit. If you all just take some time, break up in the groups of, I don't know, whoever, just huddle up in groups right now, that's why we don't have pews, mobile chairs, and then we'll close in song in just a few minutes, and that would be great.