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We’ve been told China has 1.4 billion people—but what if that’s a lie? In this explosive episode, I sit down with China expert Lei, who reveals compelling evidence that the CCP may be hiding a catastrophic demographic collapse. If true, this changes everything—from geopolitics to global economics. Buckle up.
Watch Lei: https://www.youtube.com/@LeisRealTalk
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Seth Holehouse is a TV personality, YouTuber, podcaster, and patriot who became a household name in 2020 after his video exposing election fraud was tweeted, shared, uploaded, and pinned by President Donald Trump — reaching hundreds of millions worldwide.
Titled The Plot to Steal America, the video was created with a mission to warn Americans about the communist threat to our nation—a mission that’s been at the forefront of Seth’s life for nearly two decades.
After 10 years behind the scenes at The Epoch Times, launching his own show was the logical next step. Since its debut, Seth’s show “Man in America” has garnered 1M+ viewers on a monthly basis as his commitment to bring hope to patriots and to fight communism and socialism grows daily. His guests have included Peter Navarro, Kash Patel, Senator Wendy Rogers, General Michael Flynn, and General Robert Spalding.
He is also a regular speaker at the “ReAwaken America Tour” alongside Eric Trump, Mike Lindell, Gen. Flynn.
Welcome to Man in America, a voice of reason in a world gone mad. I'm your host, Seth Wilhaus. So first things first, you can probably tell my voice is not normal. I've got some sort of cold or who knows, but we had a big Easter party over the weekend, with a huge scavenger hunt with kids running everywhere around our house. And I was one of the leaders, so I was yelling and running.
Seth Holehouse:So my voice went out on Sunday, and it's probably still recovering. So anyway, now I've got this really deep, radio voice, which maybe you appreciate. I don't know. So, today's topic is China, and my guest today is a woman named Lei. Now I discovered her on YouTube.
Seth Holehouse:She has a YouTube channel called Lei's Real Talk, and she's someone that has covered China extensively. She shared channels about four years old, and she's one of the go to people that I I look to for understanding what's happening in China, because she lived in China for a lot of her life. Now she lives in America, and she's very aligned with me and my view of communism and, you know, probably yours as well. Now what today's topic though is about is some information she's been covering recently, which is, I think, extremely significant. If I was to ask you, what is the population of China?
Seth Holehouse:Maybe you go to Google it or maybe you just know. The the common number being told is around 1,400,000,000. Okay, 1,400,000,000. Now, according to the research that Lei has done, which she'll lay out for you in today's show, she believes that the population of China is somewhere under 500,000,000. Now, that's insane to think about that there's wait, there's a billion people missing.
Seth Holehouse:Now, there's a few things. One is that was China's population ever at 1,400,000,000? There's a lot of experts that don't say. There's actually a lot of experts which Lei will discuss with us that believe that pre COVID, China's population was closer to 800,000,000. So that's already a huge difference.
Seth Holehouse:That's already 600,000,000 difference, from what they projected as their official population. Now, know that China is extremely secretive. It's very difficult to get information out of China, it's very difficult to pull together research, like they keep everything so, so closed that on the outside, you it's so hard to look in. However, as Lei will discuss, say, she's used a lot of math and a lot of information and research to come to this number. Now, one of the big things that that she'll be talking about is what happened in China during COVID.
Seth Holehouse:And this is where the topic is a little more controversial because here in America, I believe that COVID was largely some sort of psychological operation. We had the PCR test convincing everyone they had COVID. We had the flu disappeared off of the CDC's charts analysis. And I think that of the deaths that happened that were caused by COVID, I think a large portion of those deaths were caused by remdesivir and ventilators, and they were, they were claimed to be COVID deaths, or I think a lot of those deaths were like motorcycle accidents or car accidents or suicide, where they then ran a PCR test on a corpse and said, Oh, they had COVID, so this is another COVID death, right? Yeah, well COVID caused your motorcycle accident.
Seth Holehouse:That makes perfect sense. However, I do believe that something different hit China. That something, some sort of strain of some kind of virus or biological weapon or something else hit China. And this is almost, it seems too crazy to even discuss publicly, because like, Well, I would know about that. But the various experts that I've talked to estimate that the deaths in China from COVID were not in the millions or even the tens of millions, but literally in the hundreds of millions.
Seth Holehouse:That they saw hundreds of millions of deaths in China, which is crazy. Now, again, for people to say, look, COVID was fake, there's no way like I largely agree in America and a lot of the rest of the world. I think it was fake in many ways. However, something else happened in China. And if you remember, like, the lockdowns they had, like the zero policy where they're welding people into their apartment units, to me, it was apparent that they were freaking out about something that we didn't see.
Seth Holehouse:Why were they why are they taking such extreme measures against this? And so, we'll be talking in today's show about all the different data and the research that Lei has done. She's got a lot of experts that she's quoted, and she's got a lot of math models that she's done. And she puts out a pretty compelling case that the population of China is far, far less than what you or I previously believed. Now, this is really, really significant because though America has a lot of enemies, I'd say that China and the Chinese Communist Party is one of the greatest threats to our freedom here in America.
Seth Holehouse:Like, I think most Americans would probably agree with that. Right? Like, we don't wanna be communist. We don't want China ruling our country. Right?
Seth Holehouse:Because everything everything that they touch either breaks or ends up taking away your rights. And so in China, they're currently operating the world's largest open air prison. Their social social credit system, their surveillance state is mind blowing. So if this is the case though, right, in regards to population numbers, if China's population is not that far off from America, like, this is one of the greatest kept secrets in the whole world right now because this changes everything. So many countries are investing in China believing in this growing middle class.
Seth Holehouse:So there's so much fear around China as an enemy in this huge military. It's like, well, if they've lost that much of their population, are they much weaker than we thought? So, anyway, we're gonna be diving into all this and and so much more on today's show. I just ask that you come to it with an open mind. Like, that's what I do.
Seth Holehouse:Like, you know, I got I research, I I try to approach things with an open mind. I try to leave my own preconceived ideas and notions at the door, come in, take in information, assimilate it. Okay, where am I wrong? Maybe I'm wrong there. I try to come to a new conclusion.
Seth Holehouse:Like, love changing my conclusions on things because it means I'm learning and growing. That's why I do the show, right? I walk you through my process of learning and understanding what's happening in the world and who's in control and where things are headed, and I try to share that with you so that you can be better educated and make better decisions for yourself and your family. That's what I do. So, this is gonna be a pretty crazy show.
Seth Holehouse:If you enjoy the show, I hope that you can share it because we we really need to get this information out to more people. Also, reminder that every show that I do is done as a podcast as well. So if you wanna listen instead of watch, just go to your favorite podcast app and search for Man in America. You'll find me there. The other thing is something actually really exciting to tell you is that if you follow me on social media or you watch a couple of my shows, you'll see that, oh, Seth is someone that's this one thing that really angers me.
Seth Holehouse:It's geoengineering. Okay, and I'll tell you a little bit more about this. It's the chemtrails. It's taking my kids outside to play and seeing what should have been a sunny day is now a sky covered in streaks. And that sun that was there for the first three hours of the day, two hours later, it's a completely cloudy and dreary day.
Seth Holehouse:I'm so sick of it. And if in if you don't believe in weather modification or chemtrails, well, maybe you don't. Maybe I can convert you. However, I've been trying to figure out, okay, what can I do about this? So, something very exciting is that we just launched a new website called Make Skies Blue Again.
Seth Holehouse:Right, here you go. Today's forecast, cloudy with a chance of aluminum. So, what we've thought about is like actually the best way to bring awareness to these topics is for everyone to wear it like a billboard, right? To talk to our friends and family about it, to wear a shirt that starts conversations, right? Because I think a lot of people, trust me, a lot of people that maybe, you know, five years ago said, You're a tinfoil whack job for believing the government can control the weather, now believe that.
Seth Holehouse:So, the best thing that I think that I can do, and maybe you can do as well, on top of your things you're doing, is just wear a t shirt that that starts those conversations. So, we've created this whole campaign with t shirts called Make Skies Blue Again, which I'm like so excited about this. So, if you go to makeskiesblueagain.com, you'll find this really fun website here, very, very sarcastic, but we've got all these different T shirts, we've got T shirts, we've got flags, yard signs, we've got some really funny reviews, which are fake, just like the weather. But there's, it's a really tongue and cheek website, so here you go, we've got kids t shirts, so look at that, like if you want your little kid to start becoming a, a question of the government rebel, the best thing you can do is buy them a Make Skies Blue Again t shirt and have the little kids wear it. We've got a mug, you make Skies Blue Again mug, we got the ball cap, we've even got some other really fun shirts on here if you go to the shop, we've got a ton of stuff, we've even got the American Gothic.
Seth Holehouse:So, if you can zoom in real quick, we have the American Gothic couple with their Make Skies Blue Again t shirt that chemtrails overhead, We've got a, a beach shirt, the Don't Look Up shirt, right, where we've got, this is, this is one of my favorite ones, just got this illustration of people with their, all their heads in the sand as the chemtrails go overhead. We've got flags, T shirts, hats, and we're going to be doing a bunch more stuff on there as well. Here's a flag you can hang. I think we're gonna have a yard sign. I mean, here we already have the yard sign there.
Seth Holehouse:Okay. So anyway, if you want to get your Make Skies Blue Again T shirt, just go to makeskiesblueagain.com and you'll find the t shirt on there. You can buy one for yourself, for your friends, or for your family, and have at it. Actually, do have a promo code set, so promo code Seth, we set up a discount, so I think you'll get 10% off your order if you use the promo code Seth, just to give the Man in America audience a little discount on these t shirts. But, again, if you're as angry as I am about chemtrails, you want to do something that's kind of fun about it, start rocking your Make Skies Blue t shirt, wear it to family gatherings, right?
Seth Holehouse:Wear it to your your your next cookout or your next, get together with your family, wear your Make Skies Blue Again shirt and see what kind of strange looks you get, right? But the cool thing is that for people that say, Oh, this is all conspiracy theory, and what we're gonna do is eventually I'm gonna make some little flyers you can print out, but we say, Look, conspiracy theories? Nah. We just read the patents. So, the website, we've got a whole page on here, which I'll be adding to, that is showing the literal proof of weather control.
Seth Holehouse:So here you can there's a read more link. So we've linked to the actual government websites and government patents for Project Cirrus, from the forties, Right? It was the first US attempt to modify a hurricane using cloud seeding. Right? Go read the actual government documents on it.
Seth Holehouse:Operation Popeye, CIA weather modification survey in 1957. Right? It's a declassified CA report providing an overview of weather modification capabilities and research during the 50s, highlighting the strategic interest in controlling weather patterns. We've got patents, right? In '51, here's the process of patent for the process for controlling weather.
Seth Holehouse:So, again, if you've got friends or family that, don't believe you think you're crazy, show them this exact web page, send it to them, say, look, let's go take take a look at this, right? Because if we, as much as I hope that RFK or Trump will do some sort of federal ban on geoengineering, To make these changes happen, we have to get more and more Americans aware of these problems, and we have to get more Americans like vocal and loud about this. So again, that's makeskiesblueagain.com promo code Seth will save you 10%. I'll put that link in the description below. Alright, please enjoy this interview with Lei.
Seth Holehouse:Lei, it is such an honor to have you on the show. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Lei:Well, Seth, thank you for having me. Glad to be here.
Seth Holehouse:Oh, absolutely. It's, you know, for for people that watch my show, they know that that China is a very dear topic to me, and and, you know, you've got a fantastic YouTube channel, which is how I came across you. And, we'll be getting into some really important information, about some topics that you've been breaking lately, but, you are someone, I think, that understands what's happening in China better than a lot of the other experts I've come across, and so I'm really looking forward to getting the opportunity to really pick your brands about what I think are maybe some of the most important topics of our time right now.
Lei:Oh, I try. I try to do what I can to fill the void in the world, because the CCP is such a secretive organization. It's trying to cover up everything it does. For the world, you know, we there's a void, we don't know what the CCP is up to. So being born and raised in China, I think I could feel that void.
Lei:And it was actually a lot of things I do are actually accidental. It's not like I I actually wanted to do this as my career. I never imagined to be a YouTuber, but here I am four years into this journey, but it's very rewarding.
Seth Holehouse:I'm in the same boat. This was some, you know, happy accident that I'm doing this as well. So, Lei, I want to start at the the big picture. So just to give a little background, I came across you on YouTube. You've got a YouTube channel that's been growing, like, really, really well, and you've your focus is China.
Seth Holehouse:So, the YouTube channel is called Lay's Real Talk, and your focus is primarily on China, which is really important, and for, you know, people that have watched my show for some time, they know that it's important issue to me as well. And there's one of your recent stories that you've been covering, which I think is potentially one of the most important stories of this decade or past couple of decades, and especially in terms of geopolitics and the future of not just America, but the future of the world. And that's the story about China's population. Now, we know that communism in general, especially the CCP, they are full of lies. Right?
Seth Holehouse:It's the art of war. When you're weak, act strong. When you're strong, act weak. Well, they've been projecting strength. They've been projecting great economy, you know, growing, you know, middle class, you know, success, really advanced society.
Seth Holehouse:But behind the surface, there's something else going on here. So let me, I'll hand it over to you, but maybe if you want to give us a quick introduction of yourself and then start to start to like, you know, walk us through this process of understanding, like, what you've come to understand about China's population. With everything that's happening in the economy, it feels like we're all walking on shaky ground. Prices are stuck at really high levels, and it seems like nothing is affordable anymore. I mean, it's no wonder many are relying on credit cards to cover the gaps.
Seth Holehouse:Credit card debt is skyrocketing. It's leaving a lot of people really stressed out. If you're a homeowner, you don't have to face this uncertainty alone. My friends over at American Financing can help you take control. They can help you access the equity in your home to help you pay down that high interest credit card debt, giving you peace of mind and real savings.
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Lei:Well, I was born and raised in China, I came to this country decades ago. And, you know, it's that I wasn't really so much into really trying to study Chinese politics or understanding Chinese politics, I think I'm probably one of, you know, one person who's least interested in Chinese politics. But something happened in 2020, or even 2019. We were all locked up at home during COVID. I mean, we inadvertently have all these extra time on our hand.
Lei:So I realized that America was becoming more and more like China. So I decided to with encouragement from friends and family, decided to start my journey as a YouTuber. I had no idea what it would take me. I knew very little about video production. And here I am, you know, it's almost what four years now.
Lei:Yeah, it's four years. I would say I would I wouldn't trade anything for that experience. It's unbelievable. Let us leave it like that.
Seth Holehouse:I want to say that one thing I really appreciate about your channel is that it's not scripted and overproduced. It's good quality, but it's just you talking, and you do a lot of live shows, and it seems like you've taken a similar approach than I do that you don't have this big picture agenda. You're just coming and saying, Okay, here's what I've found. Here's my research. Here's the the data.
Seth Holehouse:These are my conclusions, but here's the data for you to look at, and you're just, you're not coming with, know, you're not telling people what to think. You're just showing them how you think, and the information that you've found, and you're doing it in such a natural way that it's almost like sitting down with you talking over coffee. And I think that people, I think it's one of the reasons why your channel's grown so much, is I think people are yearning for this. People now realize that the, the produced news with the ten second news bites, and this is, it's all propaganda. It's all been, you know, part of us, the larger social engineering, whereas, you know, you, you know, sitting, you know, in a little studio with, with, with a microphone and a camera, making YouTube channel, making YouTube videos, It's real.
Seth Holehouse:Like it's real content and people are drawn to it, including myself.
Lei:Well, yeah, I'm very careful trying not to draw conclusions too quickly, because I think we live in a world where there are too many opinions and conclusions and some are premature. So what I try to do is just offer people my thinking process, what I have discovered. And some conclusions are inevitable. I mean, it is what it is. The numbers don't lie, right?
Lei:But I try not to inject too much of my own opinions, although I do have opinions. Mean, opinions are unavoidable. If you want to be a YouTuber, you offer opinions. But I try to do it in the most gentle way that people from all walks of life or from, you know, whether it's political left or political right, they can all accept because my subject is China, China affairs and the CCP. And I think not a lot of people are doing that because there's a language barrier.
Lei:There are a lot of researchers, scholars in the West whose job, who dedicate their entire life and career to study China. However, I think if they haven't really lived in in Mainland China, under communism, don't have the firsthand knowledge or the personal experience of what that feels like when you live in communism, in the middle of communism. So yeah, I'm not very I think very little about what people actually think of me. I have no idea. I think when I first did my live programs, was so uncomfortable because I realized the influence I have.
Lei:You know, when you have thousands of people listening or potentially hundreds of thousands of people view your program and you do have a lot of influence. And that's a huge responsibility that I have. Sometimes it freaked me out in the beginning, to be honest with you.
Seth Holehouse:Yeah, with great power comes great responsibility. So, I want to bring up, this is just, went to Google and punched in China population. So, to Google, which is telling us the truth, you know, 10% of the time.
Lei:According to everyone, except like everyone says 1,400,000,000.
Seth Holehouse:Exactly. So here, you know, here we go. This is India, One Point Four Three Eight Billion. China, One Point Four. United States, Three Thirty Four Million.
Seth Holehouse:So according to you're right. Not just Google, but almost anyone around the world you'd ask, the population of China is approximately 1,400,000,000. Now, that's really important because China's a superpower. China is a a manufacturing base for the whole world. China has a massive military.
Seth Holehouse:There's so many things that when you look at a nation of that size, having 1,400,000,000 people is really, really important. It gives that country a lot of power. But if it's not 1,400,000,000, a lot of that power, I think, is probably a paper tiger. And so, over the past year or two, I started hearing different rumors about how there were potentially hundreds of millions of deaths that happened in China in recent times from some sort of virus that was spread there. I don't think personally, I don't think it was the same thing that was here in America.
Seth Holehouse:I think a lot of what happened in America was psychological, and it was, you know, a very large fear campaign, and it wasn't you know, we we were we were walking to the supermarket and seeing people drop dead in the streets. Like, it never never happened here in America. Yet, in China, it seemed like something else has been going on there. And so, why don't you just, you know, walk us through your process of understanding, and really the conclusions that you've come to. So, I'll let you bring out, you bring forth your conclusions, but I can tell you that when I watched your show, it jaw dropping.
Lei:I must first tell you that it was an accidental discovery on my part. I wasn't, I trying to get to the bottom of China's population because I felt that the subject was beyond me. It was too big of a subject, and I'm not an expert on demographics. But it was totally accidental. Of course, as someone who focuses on China's subjects, we were all aware of the cover ups during the COVID pandemic, Right.
Lei:I mean, particularly in months after China's stopped the zero COVID. I mean, the zero COVID policy was ended in the fall of twenty twenty. And so we saw a huge surge of COVID cases across China. We saw people having to bribe their way into having their loved ones to be cremated at the crematoriums. We saw the huge backlog of people, of families trying to have their loved ones cremated.
Lei:So that and also the fact that China's Ministry Of Civil Affairs suddenly suspended all data and statistics on China's burial industry from that point on. So it really got me to think, you know, the real casualty of COVID in China is no way close to the one hundred and twenty thousand deaths that they reported. I mean, the world reported what seven million total deaths related to COVID and one point two million of that came from The United States and China, the country where the virus originated from, only had one hundred and twenty thousand deaths. Wasn't believing that number. But how much was the actual number?
Lei:It was a mystery to all of us. But at least that put, you know, seeing all these video footage showing how families were going desperate, they were going crazy because they didn't know what to do with the remains of their loved ones. Some of them passed away at home. I saw one video that went viral. That actually showed a man trying to cremate the body of his elderly parent in an open space in an apartment, in a community, in an urban space.
Lei:I mean, it was unbelievable. If the situation weren't that serious, I mean, people wouldn't be so desperate, right? So moment that actually turned the moment that actually clicked in my head is when I saw a post in Chinese. Someone wrote a very short post that basically said this. It says, in 1990, China's population was only two seventy million below India's because at the time China had 1,100,000,000 and India had eight seventy million.
Lei:So the post said, In 1990, China's population was only to two seventy million under India's. After thirty years, despite the fact that India's fertility rate is twice as much as China's. And yet China still has more population than India in 2020. It was just a quick post like that in Chinese. And it clicked in my mind because mathematically, I know immediately that's impossible.
Lei:If you really look at China only had 25% more population than India in 1990.
Seth Holehouse:So what were the numbers?
Lei:China's population was 1,100,000,000, and India's population at the time was, I think, eight thirty million. The difference is two seventy million. The two seventy million difference was only a quarter of China's population at the time. So that means China was only ahead by 25% in terms of population. Now, in the next thirty years, India's fertility rate was averaging three, meaning every woman on average gives birth to three children, whereas China's fertility rate officially is 1.7.
Lei:That means Chinese women gave birth on average, 1.7 children throughout their life. This is the official number. The real fertility rate is lower than that. It's below 1.5. Mathematically, I know immediately it's impossible because you have a compound effect over thirty years, over three decades.
Lei:It's impossible that China's population is still larger than India. So that got me thinking. Actually, I was making a video about China's economy. You know, I was trying to explain why China's consumer spending was so low. And I started to look at the demographic data.
Lei:So I used AI. I used AI and I asked AI to calculate both. I gave population China and India's population in 1990, I gave their official fertility rate. I asked AI to calculate China and India's population, respectively, thirty years later, by 2020. And based on the answers AI gave me, India's population matched exactly to its official population in 2020.
Lei:However, China's population was only 900,000,000. It was actually eight ninety million. It was 500,000,000 less than the 1,400,000. Right? And then if I ask AI to recalculate everything by using the normalized fertility, China's normalized fertility, which is not 1.7, which is 1.5, it's even lower.
Lei:It's 700,000,000. So depending on whose fertility rate do you use, if you use Chinese official fertility rate, China's population would be 900,000,000. If you use normalized, more realistic fertility rate, China's population is 700,000,000. So my conclusion is that there is no way mathematically China could have one point four billion people before COVID. You see?
Lei:Am I losing you?
Seth Holehouse:Or No.
Lei:Or does it make sense?
Seth Holehouse:I'm just thinking, Absolutely. It makes sense. Because so how long did China have its one child policy for?
Lei:Well, China has had four decades of its one child policy since the nineteen eighties. Right? So it's been four decades. And actually, were two countries. Must tell you that Russia and Japan are two countries that have done the most extensive research on Chinese population.
Lei:The Russians, I think historically, because their relations with China has always been complex and there are a lot of historical reasons. So the Russians always suspected that China's population was actually 1,400,000,000. And in 2018, there were a lot of discussions on Russian social media about what China's real population was. And there were experts, Russian experts, who argued that China's population was no more than 800,000,000. And what they did is they added up the urban population from all the local governments, the local counties and townships in China.
Lei:Because the urban governments published their data, they add them all up and they came up with two eighty million. But that's only urban population. And assuming a one to one ratio between the urban and rural population, they estimate that China's total population was between 1,400,000,000. So their argument is that China's population cannot exceed 800,000,000. That's the Russians.
Lei:And then The Japanese are known globally for their meticulous study of China, and they have used salt consumption. Salt intake does not fluctuate if population stays constant, right? You wouldn't see dramatic upticks or downticks of salt consumption if the population doesn't change. So based on that, they also came up with a total number. They say that Chinese population is somewhere between 1,700,000,000.
Lei:So all these numbers, you know, in a way support my AI model, then I realized China's population never reached 1,400,000,000, despite the effort by the Chinese government trying to make the whole world believe that it is the most populous country in the world to attract foreign investment because it wants to maintain the status of being the largest consumer market. And then if you really think about it, before the CCP came, or right around the time when the CCP seized power in the 1940s, China's population was 500,000,000. And then the CCP launched the Great Leap Forward movement, which resulted in the Great Famine. And then it launched the Cultural Revolution. And immediately after the Cultural Revolution, it had this one child policy, which was enforced for four decades.
Lei:So if you factor all of that in, the question is how could China's population triple from 500,000,000 by the time CCP came to 1,400,000,000 despite all these draconian measures took a toll on the Chinese population. It's impossible. And that's the view held by the Russian experts.
Seth Holehouse:So, it's interesting because what I can see here is a lot of different data points and experts and sets of information that correlate the same general idea that China's real population, you know, let's just say before COVID or any of these other changes which we'll get into, say, you know, five years ago, have been eight, seven, you know, seven hundred to nine hundred million. Right? Something in that, which is already already, you know, the entire population of America less, more than our entire population less than the projected number. Right? So they're, you know, roughly half half a billion people less than what they're claiming.
Seth Holehouse:That's already significant. But I want to talk about Right. The information that's come out in the last couple of years. Because this is where I think the real story starts to to hit home in in the amount of deaths that have happened in China. And this there's something interesting because I think a lot of I've seen a lot of people will say, you know, they'll apply this idea globally.
Seth Holehouse:Oh, you know, COVID was a psychological operation. It was just the PCR test. It was just the flu rebranded. And I think in America, in a lot of ways, was, like the the there's also some strange things happening. However, in China, a lot of the information I've seen, and continuing to see, like I shall pull up right here, this is a post this is an article just from the past couple of days on the Epoch Times, who I I trust them very much on China.
Seth Holehouse:It said residents report overcrowded crematoriums and empty neighborhoods in China. So, this is strange. It says, Chinese residents across the country continue to reveal on social media and to the Epoch Times that amid ongoing respiratory infections and overcrowding at local hospitals and crematoriums, China's villages, towns, and even streets in the big cities are looking eerily empty. So, and I'm seeing these, a lot of these reports coming. I'm seeing the videos coming out.
Seth Holehouse:I'm seeing the the the translated social media post of people saying, look at this popular, what was a busy street full of shops. There's no one there. You know, parents, children have gone missing. Like, there's something happening in China. So what are you what are you what's what is your research showing you about this?
Lei:Well, people have always suspected that the CCP has covered up the real casualties of COVID. But it's very difficult to estimate how many people actually died from twenty twenty to now. This is because the CCP has ordered Chinese hospitals and health organizations to destroy data. I mean, you know, medical records. The Chinese hospitals have been ordered to destroy medical records that they kept during that time period.
Lei:So it's very difficult to estimate. I almost gave up. I didn't believe that I could actually come up with anything. The first study that I've seen was in, I think, 2023. Someone, a Chinese researcher, tried to replicate the Japanese model based on salt consumption.
Lei:It dug up a lot of data from China, from inside China. I don't think this kind of data is available today because the CCP has removed everything that's going to reveal its dirty laundry offline, so it's no longer available. But at the time, when it was still available, they found that the Chinese population at the time in 2023 was 19% less than the official data from February to 2014, and it's 31% less from 2015 to 2020. So this is its conclusion because they used the salt consumption. So if you apply a 31% reduction to the population, you will get somewhere around 900,000,000 at the time.
Lei:So but that study was was not a very good methodology because it mixed two discrepancies in one. It mixed discrepancy between China's population before the real discrepancy between the 1.4 and then the 800,000,000 before COVID and also the second discrepancy, which is the real COVID casualties. So it mixed both discrepancies in one. It's very hard to say, well, how much of that was attributable to the original population before COVID and how much of that was attributable to the COVID casualties. So it's not a very good methodology.
Lei:I have been always looking to see if there's any way we could quantify COVID casualties. There's one person who appeared in a China I mean, we we don't know who he is, but all we know is he's a researcher working for the WHO. He's obviously a Chinese, but he remained anonymous. But according to him, he said that the total casualties that China had was not in the tens of millions, not in the millions, you know, was in the hundreds of the millions. And he came up with a four twenty two million casualties.
Lei:And his number is based on three detailed numbers. He said China, before COVID, had a monthly death of one million people every month. You know, it's twelve million deaths a year, but one million every month. That number has grown 800 times to 1,000 times during the COVID months. So he said that China's total average monthly death is seven million per month from 2020 to 2023.
Lei:So for three years straight, China saw seven million people perish on a monthly basis. Okay. And then on top of that, the surge that we saw after ending zero COVID, you remember there a window of time when the entire country was locked down and across China, people were dying. I mean, got COVID and there was an upsurge. And he said a hundred twenty million people died during that surge.
Lei:And his number is based on some police reports that he saw. He said in Beijing, every day, on average, thousand to ten thousand people die daily in Beijing in the month of January, and that's a police record. And he said using this number, he estimated one hundred and twenty million people died during those months. And then the last piece he came up with, he said during the early months of 2020, there was an upsurge of total death. And he said we need to add in another fifty million.
Lei:So that's how he got his numbers. I mean, I'm not I'm just giving you the the overall summary. I mean, he has more details to support that. That's his number, four twenty two million total deaths due to COVID in China. Another exercise that people did online was using AI, Elon Musk's Grock.
Lei:Someone asked the question to Grock and said, can you estimate China's real COVID casualty using economic data, consumption data, before and after COVID, by comparing China's consumer data before and after COVID, can you estimate total casualties? And Groke came up with a range, a hundred fifty million to two hundred fifty million. Of course, the data it drew from was the official CCP data. We know the actual data is worse than the official number. I mean, China beautifies its economic data.
Lei:So no matter how you look at it, the real casualties due to COVID is in the hundreds of millions. It's not in the millions, it's not in the tens of millions, it's in the hundreds of millions.
Seth Holehouse:I mean that is that is so significant. I mean even here in America, like so if you're looking at let's just say roughly it was four hundred million, But if their starting population was 800,000,000, that's one in two people. I mean, is something that changes the very fabric of society for them to lose roughly 50% of their entire population. Not to mention how they've managed to hide that, If these figures are correct, how how they even hit it. It's absolutely it's hard to even mentally comprehend the scale of this.
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Lei:Well, you know, the bulk of Chinese population is still in the rural area. Right? So what happens is if you watch these social media videos and the Chinese people have been saying, I mean, the people in the cities are saying, Why is the city so empty? They assume people have returned to the countryside. They thought that all the migrant workers and their families have returned to the countryside.
Lei:And then if you talk to people living in rural China, they say, Well, where's everyone in the village? They're all gone. Do they all go to the cities? So they assume people have left to other parts of China, but when they really compare nodes, they're neither. There are just fewer people around.
Lei:The villages are empty, the cities are empty, so they're now visually noticeable. They're visibly empty.
Seth Holehouse:And so, what in your conclusion, what do you think, based upon this research, what do you think the total population is currently of China?
Lei:Well, it's very difficult for me to utter that number. It's painful. I mean, it's it's it's troubling to actually say it out loud. That's what avoided doing that program for a couple of weeks even though I know it is very low. So, I don't what I can defend is my methodology and approach to the to the answer.
Lei:Does China have 300,000,000, 4 hundred million, 5 hundred million? I don't know. It's in that range. It's a ballpark number. But it's not 1,400,000,000.0.
Lei:It's definitely under 1,000,000,000. And it's definitely under 800,000,000. But is it 300,000,000, four hundred million, five hundred million? All three numbers are possible. But what I want to say is, if you look at my methodology, I have two arguments.
Lei:Number one, China did not have one point four billion before COVID. It's somewhere around eight hundred million. And then the total casualties, and that's a number more difficult to quantify, but the total death is in the hundreds of million. So anywhere from three hundred million to six hundred million is a possible number for China's population right now.
Seth Holehouse:It's just absolutely astounding. So, given this information, but also just the the broader information that you're covering a lot, China economy, the the the state of Xi, infighting, purges at the the top levels of the Politburo. How how weak of a state do you think the CCP is currently? Because for most people, they watch the news or they might they might think that China, you know, they have their issues, but the China is a relatively strong nation. It's a real threat.
Seth Holehouse:Now, of course, they could be weak and be a threat as well. But from your understanding and the information that you've pulled together, what do you think the current state of the CCP is? Because given all this information, it would seem like they might be facing some sort of governmental or societal collapse over there. But what do you think?
Lei:Well, I think CCP is really, I mean, it fears an imminent disintegration of the regime. If you look at it, I mean, even this piece of information, when disclosed on a large scale, can bring down the CCP. Can you imagine the day when the world finds out that China's total population is only a third of what it claims? Think about the impact. I think it will be a global moment of reckoning.
Lei:All the economic models, all the economic assumptions about China's market, China being the world's factory, all of that is non valid anymore because of the population shift. And then for the Chinese people, they will be disgusted by their government if they find out because the question is, where did the 1,000,000,000 people go? Right? I mean, it was I think even this piece of information, when found out, could bring down the regime because people mentally, people just can't take it. So I think that just shows you how fragile the the entire regime has been.
Lei:It's at a tipping point. I think that the regime is really at a tipping point. Anything anything can bring her down.
Seth Holehouse:So you think it's that it's that I mean, being at a tipping point means it is it is like this far away from collapse. Now, it could balance a tipping point for ten years, right? You know, so it doesn't mean that it's already falling and it's it's right, but being at a tipping point, it's a small nudge away. And so, and this is very significant, obviously, for a lot of reasons. So what are you seeing happening at the very high levels of politics in China?
Seth Holehouse:Like, I know that there are rumors of Xi Jinping having a stroke. There's been heavy infighting. I know that, you know, there's been massive purges happening, you know, really since, you know, I guess it's always happening over there. But what would you say the current state of the leadership is in China?
Lei:I think the current state of the leadership in China is, one boils down to the question, who is in control? Maybe the answer is no one is in control. I mean, looks like Xi Jinping is in control because that's the that's the facade that they all want to maintain. Whether it whether Xi Jinping himself or those who oppose him from within the party. They all want to maintain the facade that Xi Jinping is in control.
Lei:Because if that facade falls, then so does the regime. So even though they fight with each other viciously against each other, but they have one common goal that is prevent the regime from falling apart. But if you really look deeper, all of Xi Jinping's loyalists, or I shouldn't say all, but many of his loyalists have been either dismissed, investigated, sent to retirement, or simply locked up or purged. And that just puts the question out, you know, about Xi Jinping's real power. If he is still in power, if the facade that Xi Jinping is still in control, how do you explain that so many of his loyalists are purged?
Lei:You know, that's one question that
Seth Holehouse:And so, what about the rumors of him having a stroke? Is that is that planned to anything that's happening?
Lei:He obviously, I'm sorry, he obviously had some health issues. Because when he welcomed the visiting leader from Vietnam Last Summer, that was his first public appearance on the third plenum. The CCP, I mean, the Xinhua was very careful with releasing his pictures and video footages. If if they did really anything they release, everything they release was from a distance. They did not have any close-up shots.
Lei:If even if they did, it was a front shot. They didn't show any side shots of him. However, from the Vietnamese media, we saw one picture showing the side of Xi Jinping, and it looks like his hair, the back of his hair was shaved. So some medical experts said that he might have been given some kind of a surgery during that time because the headline looked very odd. And that picture went viral on Chinese social media outside China.
Lei:Of course, it was banned in China, but we all saw the picture. I mean, you can't imagine Xi Jinping having that kind of very strange haircut, you know, where a significant part of his hairline was like erased, it was moved.
Seth Holehouse:And so, looking at the big picture of this, for for people that are trying to follow China and understand how this fits into everything else, what do you recommend people focus on?
Lei:Like, I
Seth Holehouse:I would say for one, as you mentioned, if this information gets out in a big way, that that in of itself could cripple China. And this is why when I saw your your coverage on this on your YouTube channel, I I really wanted to get you on because I wanted to get this information out to more people. Because this is this is a really, really, really important discussion. Because I would say that while America has a lot of enemies, the CCP is one of the, like, one of the pinnacle enemies of The United States. And they their hundred year march, their their their goal by 02/1949 is to be basically the ruler of the world, right?
Seth Holehouse:And so what should people be focusing on or watching or, like, what should people do that are following this information?
Lei:I think The United States and its allies should do a better job trying to get to the bottom of China's economy, its politics. Look, I'm not an expert on Chinese population, but if I could ask some intelligent questions and at least cast enough doubts on China's population, right? With the limited resources I have, I have no one working for me, I'm just one woman team. Think about all the hundreds of thousands of experts who are paid six digit salaries with all their research tools and statistic models. They should do a better job trying to get to the bottom of China's population.
Lei:I mean, they have so much resources at their disposal. Why don't they do that? And yet when I look at, you know, when I read media reports, everyone is still talking about China's economy growing at 5%, four %. China's economy has not been growing for the past three to four years. It's in a contraction state.
Lei:But the ignorance on the part of our experts in the free world is amazing. So I think if they do a better job, I can retire. I don't need to do this. I would rather do some cultural programs, something that I'm more interested in. I'm just shocked that no one ever talked about this because it's not like Lay uncovered some truth that CCP tries so hard to cover up.
Lei:It's a mathematical question. Right? It's a math problem. Using all CCP's official data, China's population is not what it is today. Even if you use all CCP's GDP growth data, China's GDP today is not what it is.
Lei:I did a program on that. But so I was shocked by the ignorance on the part of our so called experts. So I always call upon the true professionals. I don't consider myself a professional in that regard. I call upon the true professionals to do their job and tell and give us the truth.
Lei:It shouldn't be Lei standing here defending herself and trying to explain why China only has 300,000,000 people. That's not my job. In Chinese, we say, you throw a brick to hope to bring back a piece of jade. I'm the brick. I'm not the jade, but I hope there's so many pieces of jade out there.
Lei:They need to do their job. And tell me if I'm wrong, how I'm wrong. If I'm right, then show us the numbers. It's their responsibility. I shouldn't be standing here defending my number or my methodology.
Lei:What do you think?
Seth Holehouse:Well, I think you're a very important brick. And I think that the information you put together is really key actually. And I think that it's interesting because I think that where we're at in the world right now, there's been less and less trust in experts. Look at the medical system, look at, you know, Fauci's fall from fame. There's so much less trust in the institution.
Seth Holehouse:And I think rightfully so, I think our institutions and our experts have either intentionally led us astray, or been bought off and paid and funded in certain ways by big organizations to, again, lead us astray. And so I think that, you know, we are at a time right now where the there's this massive resurgence of the citizen journalist, the citizen researcher, and anybody can, you know, and we're all walking around with a mobile studio. So anybody can take their information and have it go viral for the world to find, and I commend you for doing that. And I think that actually, I hope that you're able to to move the dial, because that's also an important part of this is that a lot of times, these experts intentionally don't cover something. But when there's enough people asking the general public, enough people in the general public are watching and sharing shows like this, and they're now asking the experts, well, what do you think about this?
Seth Holehouse:Eventually, the experts have to comply. Otherwise, it becomes too glaringly obvious that they're intentionally ignoring critical information. So I, I thank you for for what you're doing. Again, think you're a very important brick.
Lei:Yeah, I think the moment imagine the moment when this truth comes out, right? When the day we discover China's rural population, let's say is 500,000,000. It's a slap in the face to all these experts. What are they going to say? Where would their professional credibility go?
Lei:That's a that's a big question. I just I I I think maybe that's the reason. Everyone understands the consequences of uncovering this truth. And maybe that's why nobody is trying to really do it because they try to just cover it up. Because it's comfortable to cover it up.
Lei:It's uncomfortable to reveal it.
Seth Holehouse:It is. It is. You know, I feel like I know so much about the world that I almost wish I didn't know. Like, I wish I could go back to my high school years when I was so ignorantly bliss to the real kind of workings of the world. And now I think I'm only scratching the surface, but I, you know, I would rather though, I'd rather know the truth and learn how to handle it than live a lie.
Seth Holehouse:And, and that's why I do what I do is that I, you know, I'm not always right, but I try to explore and research, and most importantly, I try to get important guests like yourself on that can help get this information out to more people. And so, again, I thank you very much for doing what you're doing. I thank you for giving, me and and the audience your time today. I will I'm gonna pull up your YouTube channel. I'll put the link to this in the description of the show, so that way people can go watch you on there.
Seth Holehouse:Just, Lay's Real Talk. And and, again, you can look and see. I mean, it's incredible. Your your livestream from, five days ago is at over half a million views. So, obviously, something that you're doing is really, it's really resonating, and it's important information.
Seth Holehouse:Here's another one, you know, 1,500,000 views, 900,000,000 views. So, obviously, what you're doing is reaching, people, and so I just encourage you to just keep at it, even though that you'd rather be doing a cultural program. And I would love that. I'd love to do a program on, you know, Chinese tea ceremony, right, or Japanese tea ceremonies.
Lei:Whole foods. Just Chinese food.
Seth Holehouse:Exactly. That'd be way more fun than this. But this is important, and I thank you for doing what you're doing.
Lei:Oh, you're most welcome. Thank you for having me.
Seth Holehouse:Oh, you're absolutely welcome. We'll do it again. I'm sure we will. Numbers don't lie. The impact that Balance of Nature makes every single day is astounding.
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