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Confessions of a Shop Owner is hosted by Mike Allen, a third-generation shop owner, perpetual pot-stirrer, and brutally honest opinion sharer. In this weekly podcast, Mike shares his missteps so you don’t have to repeat them. Along the way, he chats with other industry personalities who’ve messed up, too, pulling back the curtain on the realities of running an independent auto repair shop. But this podcast isn’t just about Mike’s journey. It’s about confronting the divisive and questionable tactics many shop owners and managers use. Mike is here to stir the pot and address the painful truths while offering a way forward. Together, we’ll tackle the frustrations, shake things up, and help create a better future for the auto repair industry.
Chris Gayne [00:00:00]:
You can obviously be successful and be that type of owner that is completely disconnected from what actually happens out there.
Bryan Pollock [00:00:05]:
Sure.
Chris Gayne [00:00:06]:
Probably gonna start a fight, but that's fine. However, that, I think is 100%, and we get into discussion about this a lot, especially in these groups or within our chats or whatever. That's transactional business.
Bryan Pollock [00:00:17]:
It is.
Chris Gayne [00:00:18]:
And I personally don't like it.
Bryan Pollock [00:00:20]:
The following is a special edition of the show. Don't worry. Today's episode still features doofuses talking about the aftermarket. This one just doesn't include my dad, so it's probably better than Norma. The stuff said on this show does not necessarily represent the views or opinions of our peers, our sponsors, or any other associations we may have. Chances are there may be some spicy language in this show, so if you're sensitive to that, you should probably move along. Without further ado, here's your special. Brian Pollock with Confessions of a Shop Owner, presented by techmetric.
Bryan Pollock [00:00:56]:
The best thing to happen to the world of personal transportation since the advent of internal combustion engine jeans.
Bryan Pollock [00:01:05]:
Now he's recording.
Chris Gayne [00:01:06]:
Yeah.
Bryan Pollock [00:01:06]:
Oh, thank goodness. That conversation just yet another thing that will never see the light of day. And the Confessions of the Shop Owner podcast.
Chris Gayne [00:01:13]:
It's a shame. Sorry for all of you.
Bryan Pollock [00:01:15]:
Oh, my gosh. So we're here. Braxton tells me. I have to mention we're at Tools in Pennsylvania because I forgot to do that episode. I think so.
Chris Gayne [00:01:24]:
You never know in this place.
Bryan Pollock [00:01:25]:
And I'm here with. I'm here with a super American extraordinaire.
Chris Gayne [00:01:31]:
Help. You need that camera.
Bryan Pollock [00:01:32]:
And I kicked it. That's okay. Super American extraordinaire. Chris Gainey. You pronounce it right, it's a fact. Not gagne. Because you're not French. You're super American.
Chris Gayne [00:01:42]:
Super, super American.
Bryan Pollock [00:01:43]:
Super, super American.
Chris Gayne [00:01:45]:
I don't know if that's a. That's not true at all, but whatever.
Bryan Pollock [00:01:48]:
You're super American.
Chris Gayne [00:01:49]:
I mean, I think you're exaggerating.
Bryan Pollock [00:01:50]:
I mean, you're like. You're probably one of the coolest people I've ever met.
Chris Gayne [00:01:54]:
I feel more like. Like Forrest Gump. I just have dabbled in a lot of weird things. I don't know how I got there. I don't know how I got here.
Bryan Pollock [00:02:00]:
You've done some things.
Chris Gayne [00:02:01]:
Yeah, I've just done a few things.
Bryan Pollock [00:02:02]:
You own all unrelated Dale County Diesel.
Chris Gayne [00:02:05]:
Yep.
Bryan Pollock [00:02:06]:
Right?
Chris Gayne [00:02:06]:
Yep. Not Markhams.
Bryan Pollock [00:02:08]:
Not Markhams.
Chris Gayne [00:02:08]:
I do not work for Tommy Markham.
Bryan Pollock [00:02:09]:
You do not work for Tommy Markham. Although probably some days in shop ownership, it'd probably Be nice to just show up somewhere and just do the thing.
Chris Gayne [00:02:16]:
Yeah.
Bryan Pollock [00:02:16]:
Do the thing that you do. Right. Yeah.
Chris Gayne [00:02:18]:
Hey, Tommy. You got problems, Tommy. I'm done.
Bryan Pollock [00:02:21]:
Put it in the Tommy pile.
Chris Gayne [00:02:23]:
Yeah, put it in the Tommy.
Bryan Pollock [00:02:23]:
Put it in the Tommy pile. Before that. Military career.
Chris Gayne [00:02:28]:
Yep. So I. I did 21 years in the. In the army.
Bryan Pollock [00:02:34]:
Oh, my gosh.
Chris Gayne [00:02:35]:
Started out as a. As a cop. Thought that's what I wanted to do. I was 17 and dumb. Turns out I hated it. And then started flying for the last 11 years.
Bryan Pollock [00:02:45]:
Okay, 11 years flying helicopter.
Chris Gayne [00:02:48]:
Yep. Flying Kyle warriors and Apache. And then I finished out as the instructor. Instructor pilot at Fort Rucker in Alabama. And that's where we are now.
Bryan Pollock [00:02:58]:
Nice. Yeah, it was pretty okay. You ended up in Alabama because your last deployment, if you will, or whatever.
Chris Gayne [00:03:05]:
My last duty station. Yeah. So I got sent there to be a instructor for flight school. Did it for a couple years, and then when I retired, I thought I was going to keep doing it. I actually thought I was going to go to the airlines, too, and I didn't do any of that stuff. And Dale County Diesel took off.
Bryan Pollock [00:03:21]:
So that's what I do now. You're like, too hyped up working on diesel pickups.
Chris Gayne [00:03:23]:
Yeah, I guess. I. I need. I don't know.
Bryan Pollock [00:03:25]:
You're like, this is kind of fun.
Chris Gayne [00:03:26]:
I'm like Zeb's dog. I just need more stimulation. So I guess
Bryan Pollock [00:03:31]:
you're like, listen, I'm a little undiagnosed.
Chris Gayne [00:03:33]:
Yeah. And I may have a touch of the tism.
Bryan Pollock [00:03:35]:
Yeah.
Chris Gayne [00:03:35]:
Yeah.
Bryan Pollock [00:03:36]:
I just got to be. I got to, like, touch things and do stuff. That was the idea.
Chris Gayne [00:03:39]:
Yeah.
Chris Gayne [00:03:40]:
Yeah.
Bryan Pollock [00:03:40]:
So when you started was just you.
Chris Gayne [00:03:42]:
When you started, it was so. It was me. And so it started with me and the shop. I don't know if I've ever told you the story of how the shop came to be, but it was an accident. I used to fix and flip trucks on the side just because I like to do it.
Bryan Pollock [00:03:53]:
Okay.
Chris Gayne [00:03:54]:
Except we were. When I thought we were going to go be airline pilots and all that. I didn't have a garage. I was in a townhouse. And so I was eating a. There used to be a place next to my shop where they had this giant breakfast burrito. And if you ate it, you got a T shirt, your picture on the wall and all that. I ate it every time I went in there.
Chris Gayne [00:04:10]:
And so I was sitting there, you
Bryan Pollock [00:04:13]:
were like, small town famous.
Chris Gayne [00:04:14]:
Yeah.
Bryan Pollock [00:04:14]:
Just.
Chris Gayne [00:04:14]:
Just a slob feeling sorry for myself and looking out the window and there Was a old garage for rent.
Bryan Pollock [00:04:22]:
Okay.
Chris Gayne [00:04:23]:
And I was like, man, I wonder what that would cost because the town's a little. It's a little delay.
Bryan Pollock [00:04:28]:
Oh, okay.
Chris Gayne [00:04:28]:
Oh, oh, yeah. No, no.
Bryan Pollock [00:04:29]:
Oh, you're thinking. You're.
Chris Gayne [00:04:30]:
We are not hoity to.
Bryan Pollock [00:04:31]:
You're like, man, I might be a couple hundred bucks a month away from having a spot. Yeah, I got you.
Chris Gayne [00:04:36]:
So I checked it out and it was definitely within my wheelhouse of what I could tolerate. So I rented this, this four bay shop. What I didn't know is you had to have a business license to do that in a commercial property. So city came and informed me of that. So I filed for a business license and that's how the business started.
Bryan Pollock [00:04:53]:
So you just like mess around with stuff on the side? You were going to go do something else?
Chris Gayne [00:04:57]:
Yep.
Bryan Pollock [00:04:58]:
You're like, you know what? Flipping these trucks is kind of fun. There's some money to be made.
Chris Gayne [00:05:01]:
Fun you. It was. I'm the boss. You know, 21 years in the army, I got real tired of people that I thought were unqualified telling me what to do. I'm not saying every boss I had was like that, but a lot of them are. A lot of them.
Bryan Pollock [00:05:17]:
You got a problem with authority?
Chris Gayne [00:05:18]:
A little.
Bryan Pollock [00:05:19]:
Not really. Not after 20. If you made it 21 years, you can't have too much problem.
Chris Gayne [00:05:22]:
Well, you kind of hit a point of no return. Right. Like I was.
Bryan Pollock [00:05:27]:
It's a little too late to do the right thing now.
Chris Gayne [00:05:28]:
I also am a high school dropout and when I joined, I didn't have a whole lot of choices, so.
Bryan Pollock [00:05:32]:
Right.
Chris Gayne [00:05:33]:
I hit the point and it was working out. It was good. I'm not. I will always be grateful for my time in the army. It got me here where I am, but I was done. When I was done, I was done.
Bryan Pollock [00:05:42]:
You were done? You were done?
Chris Gayne [00:05:42]:
I was done. I thought about going back a couple times. Been a few offers to go fly on the civilian side with some.
Bryan Pollock [00:05:48]:
Okay.
Chris Gayne [00:05:49]:
Other places. But. And I mean, went through the process. And then when I sit down and think about it to be. To be. I'm not. I'm not willing to stop our shop. That's my true passion.
Chris Gayne [00:06:01]:
That's what I really like to do. And I can't do both and be good at it, so I stick with the shop. It's what I like.
Bryan Pollock [00:06:07]:
It's what you like to do.
Chris Gayne [00:06:08]:
Yeah.
Bryan Pollock [00:06:08]:
What you like to show up.
Chris Gayne [00:06:09]:
As crazy as that is, I mean, teaching guys to, To. To put rounds from an Apache on target is Pretty fun too. It's not bad.
Bryan Pollock [00:06:16]:
Right?
Chris Gayne [00:06:17]:
But I also like diagnosing blowing up fuel pumps and stuff like that.
Bryan Pollock [00:06:20]:
You're probably a big fan of torque wrenches. You had a little issue with an Apache one time, right?
Chris Gayne [00:06:24]:
Yeah.
Bryan Pollock [00:06:24]:
Is that. Is that public? Can we talk about that? Do we have to have brackets?
Chris Gayne [00:06:27]:
You probably Google it.
Bryan Pollock [00:06:28]:
Oh, you can Google it.
Chris Gayne [00:06:29]:
I'm sure you google it. April 18, 2018. It might be the 2019 because we were in Korea. I don't remember because, you know, times are different. I always just say we were in the future. So it might have been the 19th
Bryan Pollock [00:06:39]:
in Korea, but anyway, depending on the date line. Right, Gotcha.
Chris Gayne [00:06:42]:
Had some. So all the heavy maintenance in Korea is done by a civilian agency, but they're all former army guys there. Right? That's where they learn. It's an Apache. Right. So you have to be in the army to learn the Apache. To learn.
Bryan Pollock [00:06:54]:
Yeah, yeah. You're not going to learn that at the Niagara Falls waterfall. They don't fly to K University.
Chris Gayne [00:06:59]:
Ain't going to teach you how to work on the Apache.
Bryan Pollock [00:07:01]:
Sure.
Chris Gayne [00:07:01]:
So
Chris Gayne [00:07:04]:
I was an instructor pilot. Our aircraft broke. As I'm walking back to the hangar, my buddy who was a maintenance pilot asked me if I'd ever done a full general test flight with them. And I'm like, nah, man. He's like, let's go. He's like, I just need you up front. You just fly the aircraft. Let me do what I do in the back.
Chris Gayne [00:07:19]:
I said, cool, no problem. We made it about, I don't know, 50ft and that damn thing started spinning around and it just ate the dirt.
Bryan Pollock [00:07:27]:
Just ate the dirt?
Chris Gayne [00:07:28]:
Yeah.
Chris Gayne [00:07:29]:
So that sucked. At the time, I was probably £230 of just exercising everyday meat and everything I could to push that damn collective down.
Bryan Pollock [00:07:38]:
You couldn't. It just wanted to be up. Just the G forces.
Chris Gayne [00:07:41]:
G forces.
Chris Gayne [00:07:42]:
You couldn't. I mean, it was hard to just move in that. I mean, it was hard because it had just sucked in so hard spinning that snap.
Bryan Pollock [00:07:47]:
So £230, probably 10 G's. So you're like £2300.
Chris Gayne [00:07:51]:
So in the. In the investig. In the crash report, it says that we hit the ground at 13.37 G's.
Bryan Pollock [00:07:56]:
Oh, my gosh.
Chris Gayne [00:07:58]:
That's from about. I don't even think it was 20ft. It wasn't even that high. Wasn't even that high.
Bryan Pollock [00:08:03]:
And that's how hard you hit.
Chris Gayne [00:08:04]:
The initial snap and spin of the aircraft, it twisted the airframe and blew all the when we, when it all finally got done, my buddy in the back, Jake, was like, he's like, I got glass all over me. Where the is this glass? Can we say whatever?
Bryan Pollock [00:08:15]:
I don't care.
Chris Gayne [00:08:18]:
Glass over me. And I'm like, where the hell did glass come from? And I look and all the glasses, because the frame twisted.
Bryan Pollock [00:08:24]:
Twisted and popped and it blew it all out.
Chris Gayne [00:08:26]:
Oh, like 20ft. We were maybe going, if I remember right, it was just under like 20 miles an hour.
Chris Gayne [00:08:31]:
So.
Chris Gayne [00:08:31]:
Right. Right under what we call effective translational lift. Right when the aircraft starts to get efficient. So we had enough forward momentum where the spin wasn't just stationary. We were. It was.
Bryan Pollock [00:08:40]:
You're kind of like going, oh, yeah, perfect.
Chris Gayne [00:08:42]:
Yeah, yeah.
Bryan Pollock [00:08:43]:
So you're out of control on multiple axis.
Chris Gayne [00:08:46]:
It was super cool. And it was super fast too. It lasted a few seconds. Felt like an eternity. Felt like an attorney. I remember every bit of it. I remember thinking. Because, you know, it's, it's.
Chris Gayne [00:08:55]:
It's got a spiral. And luckily we had big old rocket pods on there. And it was coming down and I'm in the front, I'm flying and it's coming down and I'm watching the blades. We're. Because we keep bouncing from side to side because I cannot get this.
Bryan Pollock [00:09:06]:
Yeah, it's just kind of like doing this crazy little gyroscopic out of control thing.
Chris Gayne [00:09:11]:
That's just one thing about the Apache is, especially if you're in the front seat, those blades, they can come down and they can lop your old. Your dome off. So I'm watching these blades coming down and they're.
Bryan Pollock [00:09:22]:
And you're strapped in and you're trying to duck.
Chris Gayne [00:09:24]:
Oh, dude. Everything. I had to get as low as I could and just push as far to the left as I could. I'm like, please don't chop my head off.
Bryan Pollock [00:09:30]:
Oh, gosh.
Chris Gayne [00:09:32]:
I thought we were flipping over and I, I closed my eyes and I open them up and I hear radios and I look and the tower was right in front and it's. It's vertical. And I'm like, oh, we didn't flip.
Bryan Pollock [00:09:41]:
Oh, my God.
Chris Gayne [00:09:41]:
Yeah, it sucked. It sucked. And all it was was, I think it's five. I've got the. I have the coupler. The. The tail rotor drive shaft came apart. They put the bolts in the wrong holes.
Chris Gayne [00:09:50]:
And I have the coupler on my desk. I keep it there. And you can see the last one that gave out. It's got a bend in it where like it was holding on for dear Life.
Bryan Pollock [00:09:56]:
It was holding on for dear life.
Chris Gayne [00:09:57]:
Yeah. Y. Oh, it's.
Bryan Pollock [00:10:00]:
God.
Chris Gayne [00:10:01]:
I mean, destroyed the aircraft.
Bryan Pollock [00:10:02]:
Right.
Chris Gayne [00:10:02]:
I don't know what the hell an Apache cost, but a lot. In the tens of millions. 30, 40 million. Right. Gotta be.
Bryan Pollock [00:10:09]:
Oh, my gosh.
Chris Gayne [00:10:10]:
Yeah. Total it out.
Bryan Pollock [00:10:11]:
That was. They sent that right? To pick and pull.
Chris Gayne [00:10:13]:
Actually, it sat in a hangar out in Korea for a long time. I don't know what they did with the rest of it. No idea. Yeah. All over, like three little eight mil, five little eight mil bolts.
Bryan Pollock [00:10:22]:
Were you. Were you actively deployed at one time, too? Oh, that was. Well, you were in Korea, so you're. You're in a war zone.
Chris Gayne [00:10:27]:
I did twice. Did Iraq and Afghanistan stand as a list of guys. I've been all over Europe. All. All over Europe.
Bryan Pollock [00:10:36]:
I know you've been all over the US We've talked about that before.
Chris Gayne [00:10:39]:
I have flown a helicopter in every state of the U.S. except for Hawaii, Alaska and Hawaii.
Bryan Pollock [00:10:45]:
Oh, my gosh.
Chris Gayne [00:10:46]:
Yeah.
Bryan Pollock [00:10:47]:
Everywhere.
Chris Gayne [00:10:48]:
Everywhere.
Bryan Pollock [00:10:48]:
Everywhere.
Chris Gayne [00:10:49]:
Yeah.
Bryan Pollock [00:10:49]:
You've seen it all.
Chris Gayne [00:10:50]:
It's been pretty.
Bryan Pollock [00:10:50]:
Literally, pretty. Okay.
Chris Gayne [00:10:51]:
I feel forest gumpy. Like, I just.
Bryan Pollock [00:10:53]:
I don't know.
Chris Gayne [00:10:54]:
Sometimes I'm like, I don't know how I got here at all. Why do you work on.
Bryan Pollock [00:10:56]:
Why do you work on trucks, Chris? Because I'm tired. Right.
Chris Gayne [00:10:59]:
I kept going. Yeah.
Bryan Pollock [00:11:02]:
So Dale County Diesel.
Chris Gayne [00:11:03]:
Yeah.
Bryan Pollock [00:11:03]:
Starts up. You. You make the transition out of that, which is just an unbelievable.
Chris Gayne [00:11:09]:
It's a big shift. You got to think, too. I'm at the home army flight. Every army helicopter pilot goes through Fort Rucker, which is where we are.
Bryan Pollock [00:11:16]:
Okay.
Chris Gayne [00:11:17]:
All my buddies that are instructors, they're still there. If you're an Apache instructor pilot, you don't. If you're going to keep flying, you got probably two choices. You fly some. I mean, you got a few. But the good paying jobs are keep flying Apaches as a civilian instructor or you go to the airlines like these other guys do.
Bryan Pollock [00:11:32]:
Right.
Chris Gayne [00:11:32]:
So there's a ton of guys that I know that are still out there flying. So I see these guys all the time and they're like, why the hell you want to work on trucks, man? Don't you want to come fly? Don't you? I. I miss it. I miss flying. I miss things about it. But, man, I don't miss that kind of shit. I don't. I don't miss the.
Bryan Pollock [00:11:46]:
That was a thing you did. And now we're on to the next.
Chris Gayne [00:11:49]:
We're done. We're on.
Bryan Pollock [00:11:50]:
We're done with that.
Chris Gayne [00:11:50]:
Yeah.
Bryan Pollock [00:11:51]:
We're figuring out that running an auto shop isn't easy.
Chris Gayne [00:11:55]:
Nope.
Bryan Pollock [00:11:55]:
But it's also not terrible in the grand scheme of things.
Chris Gayne [00:11:58]:
No, it's pretty great. I enjoy it. There's a lot of things that translate from the army. Like when I was enlisted, I was a sergeant first class. So, you know, like when I went to Iraq, I took 40 guys with me.
Bryan Pollock [00:12:08]:
Okay.
Chris Gayne [00:12:10]:
And well, I finished with. When I went there, I was E6, so I had what, 12, I think. And then when I left, I had 42 dudes I brought back home. I. I enjoy leadership. I've been to a bunch of leadership courses. It's just, it's. It's what I like.
Chris Gayne [00:12:25]:
I like kind of managing people.
Bryan Pollock [00:12:27]:
Translates well into the shop.
Chris Gayne [00:12:29]:
It does, it does. Luckily, and I hope my guys will agree when they hear this that I don't treat them. One of the guys, it's actually my main guy, Adrian. Him and I were in Iraq together in 2000. Yeah.
Chris Gayne [00:12:40]:
Wow.
Chris Gayne [00:12:41]:
And now he's the main guy there. I don't treat those guys like I do. I mean, I don't. I think I've raised my voice maybe once or twice to a couple of guys who probably don't work there anymore. Just, I run it a different way.
Bryan Pollock [00:12:51]:
Yeah.
Chris Gayne [00:12:53]:
Luckily I come to things like this and get to learn from guys like you and, you know, the other people
Bryan Pollock [00:12:57]:
that are here and don't like me. I don't know anything.
Bryan Pollock [00:12:59]:
That's.
Chris Gayne [00:12:59]:
That's true. Where's your bag of potato chips?
Bryan Pollock [00:13:03]:
Right? All that guy does eat potato chips. You don't fix no cars.
Chris Gayne [00:13:06]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Bryan Pollock [00:13:08]:
That's awesome.
Chris Gayne [00:13:08]:
Yeah, it's all right, man. I. I enjoy it. I enjoy the, the growing part of it.
Bryan Pollock [00:13:14]:
Right.
Chris Gayne [00:13:14]:
It's the painful part. But it's also. I'll tell you what I really like to like in this again, part of my instructor kind of background, like when them teaching somebody how to, how to. How to put a rocket, you know, on a dummy tank. Right.
Bryan Pollock [00:13:29]:
Okay.
Chris Gayne [00:13:29]:
It's tough. It's not easy. You're.
Bryan Pollock [00:13:31]:
Yeah.
Chris Gayne [00:13:31]:
25,000 pound machine looks easy in a video game.
Bryan Pollock [00:13:34]:
It's really not that great in real life. There's a lot going on.
Chris Gayne [00:13:36]:
There's a little bit going on, you know, that you don't see. But once they get it and the light bulb clicks and they just do it and you just sit back and watch them do it, it's like, hell yeah. And I enjoy that same kind of satisfaction from the shop too.
Bryan Pollock [00:13:46]:
Right.
Chris Gayne [00:13:47]:
We get a lot of that. We get a lot of it within the shop get a lot of it with trying to drag other. Because, man, I want to see everybody do well. There's enough broken cars. I. They get crappier every day.
Bryan Pollock [00:13:56]:
We talk about it all the time.
Chris Gayne [00:13:58]:
There's enough for everybody. I want to see other guys coming to these events.
Bryan Pollock [00:14:02]:
I rode down here with other shop owners that we're not in competition with.
Chris Gayne [00:14:05]:
Yeah. I'm not in competition with the people down the street. I'm not in competition.
Bryan Pollock [00:14:09]:
And it's not. And it's not, because we're at different levels. The people I rode with, Dan, can fix anything I can.
Chris Gayne [00:14:13]:
Right.
Bryan Pollock [00:14:14]:
Like, no doubt. Dude's freaking super sharp. We're not in competition with each other.
Chris Gayne [00:14:17]:
Right.
Bryan Pollock [00:14:18]:
We're just not. Because there's, like, you said, so many broken vehicles.
Chris Gayne [00:14:21]:
Yeah. And if you.
Bryan Pollock [00:14:21]:
I mean, it's not like a thing.
Chris Gayne [00:14:23]:
I would argue it can be competition. It just doesn't need to have a negative connotation with it.
Bryan Pollock [00:14:27]:
Sure.
Chris Gayne [00:14:27]:
Right.
Bryan Pollock [00:14:27]:
Sure.
Chris Gayne [00:14:28]:
Competition breeds innovation. It should make you want to do better.
Bryan Pollock [00:14:30]:
Yeah.
Chris Gayne [00:14:30]:
Like, I almost wish a diesel shop would open up next to us, because right now, we're really the only one.
Bryan Pollock [00:14:36]:
Give you a little nudge.
Chris Gayne [00:14:37]:
Yeah.
Bryan Pollock [00:14:37]:
Give you a little nudge.
Chris Gayne [00:14:38]:
There's other places that will do what
Bryan Pollock [00:14:40]:
we do to kick it. To kick it into road gear.
Chris Gayne [00:14:42]:
Yeah.
Bryan Pollock [00:14:42]:
Yeah.
Chris Gayne [00:14:43]:
And all it does to me is, like, when some say, oh, well, you know, they can do it, too. And I'm like, you know, that gives me a little nudge. Like, I bet they can't do it. Like we do.
Bryan Pollock [00:14:50]:
Yeah.
Chris Gayne [00:14:51]:
You know, like, that's my point. That's the best I can do is say, yeah, we don't. They don't do it.
Bryan Pollock [00:14:53]:
Like, yeah, I bet they can do it. Yeah. That they. Yeah, there's something. Diesel is so strange because there's so many people. How do I say this? There's so many hobbyists dabbling in this
Chris Gayne [00:15:09]:
thing and it up.
Bryan Pollock [00:15:11]:
Yeah.
Chris Gayne [00:15:12]:
It's just a fact.
Bryan Pollock [00:15:13]:
I mean, you just see stuff all the time, like, stupid stuff that is, like, just basic for us. Like. Yep. People like putting a. Put. Doing a DCR conversion. They put. Don't put the lines back in the brackets.
Chris Gayne [00:15:24]:
Oh, yeah.
Bryan Pollock [00:15:25]:
Well, how do you think that's going to go?
Chris Gayne [00:15:26]:
I know the directions say to do this, but, man, it's good because I'm smarter than the guys at SNS that designed the stuff and tested it.
Bryan Pollock [00:15:32]:
And they don't put the lines in the brackets. And they're like, oh, yeah, I had my neighbor's sister's Cousin, not her neighbor's cousin, the neighbor's sister cousin, if that makes sense. Did this DCR conversion. You know, I smell fuel. I, I, I smell fuel in my truck. And you look and there's fuel in the valley of the truck. Freaking turbocharged and manifolds right there. This truck is like, thank goodness he just gets groceries with it.
Bryan Pollock [00:15:54]:
Because if he'd pull a trailer, the thing would have burnt to the ground. Inflamed square to the ground.
Chris Gayne [00:15:57]:
And then there'd telling SNS how, how
Bryan Pollock [00:16:00]:
what a shitty product is because freaking technician Timmy doesn't know what a torque wrench is or instruction. Forget the torque wrench. Forget the torque wrench.
Chris Gayne [00:16:10]:
Ignores the instructions.
Bryan Pollock [00:16:11]:
Just blatantly doesn't put the in there where it goes. Right. And that's.
Chris Gayne [00:16:15]:
Or the cheaper guy. Yeah, I got it. I got a guy who'll do it for that.
Bryan Pollock [00:16:17]:
I got. Yeah. Oh yeah, I got a guy who does. Oh yeah, I got a guy who do that job.
Chris Gayne [00:16:21]:
So you do a 500 bucks? Well, yeah. Great.
Bryan Pollock [00:16:23]:
Right? 500 labor.
Chris Gayne [00:16:24]:
Yeah, yeah, go ahead.
Bryan Pollock [00:16:25]:
We've seen the Facebook posts.
Chris Gayne [00:16:26]:
I know.
Bryan Pollock [00:16:26]:
And you just imagine what those installs look like because let's, let's face it, on that job, like a lot of guys talk about doing that job for 500 if you're going to do that job. Right. Even if you do that job all the time. Four hours. Oh, to do it, to do it, to do it. Perfect.
Chris Gayne [00:16:45]:
Correct.
Bryan Pollock [00:16:45]:
Four hours.
Bryan Pollock [00:16:46]:
If you're cruising, you've been in a ton of these four hours. And again, if some dude's doing it for $500 labor and he ain't doing them all day, like you're not, and even you're not making, you can't no shop. You can't be profitable doing that as a shop.
Chris Gayne [00:17:00]:
No, sure as hell not a shop. And as a, as a private individual, I mean, I guess if, if you're broke. 500 bucks. I mean, I'm not trying to sound hoity toity, but I'm just saying that like if I'm gonna spend an entire Saturday, it's good because they're not gonna do it in four hours, right?
Chris Gayne [00:17:16]:
They're not gonna do it.
Chris Gayne [00:17:17]:
They're not gonna do it.
Bryan Pollock [00:17:18]:
It's gonna take them all damn day. Assuming they don't screw something up.
Chris Gayne [00:17:20]:
Nothing.
Bryan Pollock [00:17:24]:
Assuming, assuming they have, assuming they have an air hammer and a fan, clutch, tool. Yeah, maybe they get the fan off.
Chris Gayne [00:17:31]:
Maybe you don't need to take the fan off. There's tricks. I get it.
Bryan Pollock [00:17:33]:
Yeah, some, yeah, whatever.
Chris Gayne [00:17:34]:
I had a guy that didn't do it.
Bryan Pollock [00:17:36]:
God bless him.
Chris Gayne [00:17:36]:
He was good at it. Whatever. He was quick with it.
Bryan Pollock [00:17:38]:
My hands, I'm too fat. I'm. I tell everybody same thing. My. I am fat, old, and my back hurts. Yeah, I'm taking the fan off.
Chris Gayne [00:17:45]:
That's why, like, if.
Bryan Pollock [00:17:46]:
Dude, I take the path of least resistance, bro.
Chris Gayne [00:17:48]:
People talk about pulling or not or doing six, four turbos with the cab down. Oh, it's easy, man. But no, if I just hear this
Bryan Pollock [00:17:56]:
conversation last night, bring it up. We just. And people will make fun of me for this. But I'm like, I said, I'm fat and old. My back hurts. I'm like, like LML fuel filter housings. Oh, yeah, dude. Like, I'm like, to a point, like, thank goodness.
Bryan Pollock [00:18:12]:
Thank goodness. We got great guys that work for us. Because I have a guy I can just give that to. Little headshots, little hands with little hands. Because that job pissed me up. Like, I'm to a point now. I'm like, I don't know, I might freaking disconnect some hoses, some grounds, and freaking lift the cab off this.
Chris Gayne [00:18:25]:
I don't know. I'm just.
Bryan Pollock [00:18:26]:
I'm especially. I'm over. And Zeb's guys. Zeb's always funny. He's got guys that are really good at doing this. This is all they do day in and day out. He's like, my guys don't even lift the cab off. Do a fuel system.
Bryan Pollock [00:18:37]:
I go, dude, I can't even take the EGR bolt out with the cab on. I'm like. I'm like, dude, my. Look at my hand. Yeah. Like, I can't, you know?
Chris Gayne [00:18:46]:
Yeah.
Bryan Pollock [00:18:46]:
Like, and it's great that they can do it. And I know them guys are doing it right, too. I get it. They're doing it right. But it's like.
Chris Gayne [00:18:52]:
It's like a turbo on a Duramax. Right? You, of course, you don't need to take the cab up, but, boy, one of them bolts break, you're going to wish you had just done it in the first place. Yeah. You know, and like I said, I'm not saying we do it, but luckily I don't primarily do that work anymore.
Bryan Pollock [00:19:06]:
Yeah.
Chris Gayne [00:19:06]:
I got guys that are good at it and they do it.
Bryan Pollock [00:19:07]:
You're like, me, like, luckily, I've got guys. You know, I used to. There's been a big transition in our shop where even. Even mechanical stuff wise, like, even the nuts and bolts of it before. Before we got it, we got a guy now, before he got a ton of experience under his belt, even in our shops, I was kind of. I was kind of the king of the road of the mechanical stuff.
Chris Gayne [00:19:31]:
Right.
Bryan Pollock [00:19:32]:
Right. I'm gonna get these. Get these stuck bolts out, you know, weld some whatever to get a bolt. Whatever. Thank goodness I got a guy who's better at. Than me.
Chris Gayne [00:19:42]:
Yeah.
Bryan Pollock [00:19:42]:
Because I'm just. And I. And I. As that shift has happened, you start to recognize that maybe you're not that good at certain things anymore. I wouldn't want to have to do a set of exhaust manifolds on something because it's going to take me too long. I got this guy over here that's going to do just as good a job as I do, and he's 10 years younger than me. He's going to do it in half the time because he's been doing all of our heavy line work for six years now. Yeah.
Chris Gayne [00:20:08]:
There's something to be said for that. I mean.
Bryan Pollock [00:20:09]:
Yeah.
Chris Gayne [00:20:10]:
I walked outside the shop when we get here Wednesday, so Tuesday, and Adrian's doing a fuel system on an lml. And I look in there, see the EGR out, see the turb. I can see the turbo, which means you've done a lot of work already.
Bryan Pollock [00:20:22]:
Yeah. Right. Yeah. If you can see it.
Chris Gayne [00:20:23]:
Yeah. I'm glad you.
Bryan Pollock [00:20:26]:
With the cab on.
Chris Gayne [00:20:26]:
Cab on.
Bryan Pollock [00:20:27]:
With the cab on.
Chris Gayne [00:20:28]:
Yeah. I'm like, I'm glad you're good at this, man, because I don't want no part of that anymore. And like, you call me whatever you want. I don't care. But what I was going to say to that is. And I know for you it's the same thing. Not doing that opens you up now to learn and do other things.
Bryan Pollock [00:20:41]:
Yeah.
Chris Gayne [00:20:42]:
Focus on other things.
Bryan Pollock [00:20:42]:
That for sure, that it makes me better at the tasks I have to accomplish.
Chris Gayne [00:20:47]:
I think that especially technician. And I'm not a technician by trade, but obviously I know a bunch of them now. Technician turned owners. It gives them time to do this stuff that maybe they didn't think was
Bryan Pollock [00:20:57]:
important to start, but they.
Chris Gayne [00:20:59]:
And now they realize, hey, bro, you need to be doing this.
Bryan Pollock [00:21:01]:
Yeah.
Chris Gayne [00:21:01]:
You need to take.
Bryan Pollock [00:21:01]:
This thing doesn't run itself.
Chris Gayne [00:21:03]:
If you don't know what KPI is. Like, you need to go get yourself in front of a computer and.
Bryan Pollock [00:21:08]:
Right, let's talk. Right.
Chris Gayne [00:21:11]:
But that's what it does. I mean, it's. I. I used to feel bad about not fixing trucks anymore, but it's. I don't serve the shop best if I'm the one doing I'll do work.
Bryan Pollock [00:21:21]:
Especially when you've. Especially when you've hired people who are good.
Chris Gayne [00:21:24]:
Right. But they're doing it. They do it all the time.
Bryan Pollock [00:21:26]:
You're. You've hired a guy that at this point. Point. Because he's put so much more time in recently, you've spent some time not doing a fuel system, if you will. He's at a point where he's literally better with his hands than you are now.
Chris Gayne [00:21:38]:
Yeah. And that's okay.
Bryan Pollock [00:21:40]:
It wouldn't make sense. It would not make sense for you to do that job.
Chris Gayne [00:21:42]:
Yeah.
Bryan Pollock [00:21:43]:
Because you have a guy that's going to do it faster and just as good and he knows the process. He knows we're going to torque this stuff we're going to do there, Right? Yeah. I mean, why would you even try to do it, like, at that point, like, if you're going to be slower at.
Chris Gayne [00:21:57]:
Well, I would say the only reason I would try to do it, if trying to give him some time off or he gets sick or whatever, you
Bryan Pollock [00:22:03]:
got to sub in.
Chris Gayne [00:22:04]:
At least we can go back and do that. I couldn't imagine not being able to go out in that shop.
Bryan Pollock [00:22:09]:
And do I. I've made that point. I've made that point a ton of times. I. I think I made that point in the chat group we're in the other day. I. Whether. Whether people like Dave Ramsey or not.
Chris Gayne [00:22:19]:
Oh, yeah, yeah. This is a great comparison.
Bryan Pollock [00:22:21]:
Whether they like Dave Ramsey or not, whatever. But he is very well respected as a financial guy. Right, right. And one of the things he says, when people are planning for retirement, they're getting their investments together. He's always like. He's always like, you know, mutual. General mutual funds, whatever. Don't.
Bryan Pollock [00:22:42]:
If you're gonna. Special. If you're new crypto or commodities, this, that and the other thing. Don't invest in anything you don't understand. And that's caused a lot of heartburn for me.
Chris Gayne [00:22:54]:
Oh.
Bryan Pollock [00:22:54]:
When I talk to shop owners that came from the restaurant industry and.
Chris Gayne [00:23:01]:
Oh.
Bryan Pollock [00:23:01]:
I was. I was, you know, the district manager for these restaurants and auto shops. A great investment opportunity. So I bought an auto shop. Yep. And I don't know. And I'm not saying that every shop owner's got to be super tech and they've got to be the best tech at their shop. That's not what I'm saying.
Chris Gayne [00:23:18]:
No.
Bryan Pollock [00:23:18]:
What I'm saying is why if you don't understand the general physical repair process on a car, the nuts and bolts of. If you don't understand the general idea of what it takes to get the cylinder head off of an engine. Why did you buy a shop?
Chris Gayne [00:23:35]:
Oh, I'll take it a step further. You should. You should be able to know my dad. My dad's a career carpenter and all the friends that he had that I like when I would go with him to work, what they would say was great about my dad was his ability to see some of the issues that were going to happen before they started. And that's why he was good at it. I couldn't imagine being a shop owner and not being able to look at that truck and that truck and tell that one's going to be a pain in the ass. Let's.
Bryan Pollock [00:24:00]:
Or even you're out in the shop and you're hearing. You're hearing a little bit like, this happens to me a lot. I'm hearing a little bit too much air chiseling or hammering going on over here.
Chris Gayne [00:24:07]:
Yeah.
Bryan Pollock [00:24:07]:
I'm going to go over here and take a look. That shouldn't be that. That shouldn't be like that. We shouldn't be, you know, or you just hear things. You hear things going on. You're like, we got to go have a conversation with this guy.
Chris Gayne [00:24:18]:
Yeah. And that.
Bryan Pollock [00:24:19]:
This ain't right.
Chris Gayne [00:24:20]:
I think you need. It's my opinion that. Well, I shouldn't say. I shouldn't say you need to have that. You can obviously be successful and be that type of owner that is completely disconnected from what actually happens out there.
Bryan Pollock [00:24:32]:
Sure.
Chris Gayne [00:24:32]:
Probably going to start a fight, but that's fine. However, that I think is 100%. And we get in the discussion about this a lot, especially in these groups or within our chats or whatever. That's transactional business.
Bryan Pollock [00:24:45]:
It is.
Chris Gayne [00:24:46]:
And I personally don't like it. I listen, I love money. I like stuff. I like my kids doing whatever the hell they want to do. I'm all for that. I just don't want to do it that way. Yeah, I don't want to do it that way.
Bryan Pollock [00:24:57]:
I get it. We get. We're. We run a relational business with our customers. Jim. Jim, text me on the way down here. Yesterday, one of our customers died. Let me know that the guy.
Bryan Pollock [00:25:07]:
That the guy had passed. You know what I mean?
Chris Gayne [00:25:09]:
Right.
Bryan Pollock [00:25:09]:
Like, that's like we know these people, right? And I'm the same people. We know where. Where. You know, there was this one old lady that used to have trouble with her Toyota because she never drew drove it, so the battery would always like. We knew where she was. We knew how to get in her garage. We knew how to jump the car for. To get her going.
Bryan Pollock [00:25:25]:
You know what I mean? And I'm not saying that every shop should do roadside service for open. And that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is we know the people, right?
Chris Gayne [00:25:34]:
Well, you're putting more to it. And here's the deal. If you're a person that had the capital to invest and buy a shop and run a shop because you thought you could run this as a business and make money and you do it, that's great. But it was strictly monetary, cash flow driven. And your thought process is not. I don't care what they say. It's just you're all about that cash and that's fine. I'm good with that.
Chris Gayne [00:26:01]:
That's okay.
Bryan Pollock [00:26:01]:
That's just not.
Chris Gayne [00:26:02]:
That's America. That's capitalism. I'm good with that. I love it.
Bryan Pollock [00:26:05]:
You're like, I love it.
Chris Gayne [00:26:06]:
But I'm just saying that that's not what I want. It's not what I do. I want to have. I want you to say they're the best, period. You know? Are we. No, of course not. That's why I pal around with the best. So to get better.
Chris Gayne [00:26:17]:
We aim to get better.
Bryan Pollock [00:26:18]:
Yeah.
Chris Gayne [00:26:18]:
That's why my toolbox is still sitting in Bay 1 over there. And it's going to stay in there. I couldn't imagine not having a toolbox in the shop. Now I say that. And I hope Nolan doesn't take offense if he ever listens this because Buddy Nolan runs a diesel shop and he doesn't have a box in there. And he does. Great. But he's not ignorant to everything that's happening in there either.
Bryan Pollock [00:26:36]:
Sure.
Chris Gayne [00:26:37]:
I just like kind of the. I don't know, man. It's may. Maybe it's. I don't know what it is, but I just couldn't imagine. Picture this. Picture. If you're that guy that just invested in a business and you're trying to just make a bunch of money, you now have to find somebody who does know what the is going on.
Chris Gayne [00:26:56]:
Because when you're down there, figure out who that is. Yeah. Good luck. How do you know? You don't know, right?
Bryan Pollock [00:27:03]:
Because.
Chris Gayne [00:27:04]:
But then your, your, your, your normal tech down there, who's doing the brake job doesn't understand the electric E brake or whatever. He's got to go ask a question. Well, who does he go talk to? Right?
Bryan Pollock [00:27:12]:
So that's one of the greatest things I feel like I have going on in our shop is that nobody has to freaking die on something. Do you know what I mean? And it's not always good. And don't get me wrong, I've, I've, I've created a lot of problems just stepping in and taking care of stuff. But nobody feels like, like when something goes sideways and they're like, I just had it. Before I left we were doing some control arms on an EcoSport and the axle had popped out from the inner boot, the CV axle. And 90 of the time, not even 90, like almost every time in my life that's ever happened, I can like finagle it back together without taking anything apart for the guy. I couldn't get this thing. Yeah, right.
Bryan Pollock [00:27:55]:
So we take the whole axle out of the thing and like this guy, you know, he's struggling with it. You know what I mean? And he's not even a, he's, he was a 12 year GM tech. He just started first. This is his first job not working on GMs. He's working on Ford which doesn't really have, it's the axle design was the, the issue. It was a different style CV axle design. But you know, he wasn't stuck on like oh my gosh, I'm going to be here for an hour figuring this out. No, I saw he was struggling, I went over there, we popped the axle out, we worked together on it.
Bryan Pollock [00:28:24]:
We discovered holy crap, this has got a weird axle design. And this is. You actually have to take the boot off. This is what you have to do to put this axle back together. Any. But anyways, long story short, the guy's not stuck on a desert island. Just like if one of your guys gets done, you know, and you don't always. The mistake I've always made is always getting involved a little bit too quick.
Bryan Pollock [00:28:41]:
I don't let them ride the struggle bus for a little bit so they can learn something maybe. Right, right. But it's the same thing. Like if one of your guys does something, you have a new job and the truck doesn't start. You can go, okay, let's go through. What did you do? Where are we at? What's this data look like? Let's start going through this and see.
Chris Gayne [00:28:59]:
Right.
Bryan Pollock [00:28:59]:
What happened. They're not stuck freaking dying on this job.
Chris Gayne [00:29:04]:
Yeah. You know, I couldn't imagine doing that. But. And then I think that's a problem too. You run into places where like, like we don't do flat rate. Right.
Bryan Pollock [00:29:12]:
Neither. Neither do we.
Chris Gayne [00:29:13]:
We don't. And it's part of that Is I only have a few guys that run our place. I don't want Adrian to feel like he needs to tell Michael, hey, bro, go figure it out. Because I got my own stuff to do. Right. I don't want.
Bryan Pollock [00:29:25]:
You want to be in a situation where people can help.
Chris Gayne [00:29:27]:
I want you to be able to help him where he needs it. Or he can call him over, he can help you out.
Bryan Pollock [00:29:31]:
And that was the same situation on that job earlier with those control. The bushings are real tight.
Chris Gayne [00:29:36]:
Yeah.
Bryan Pollock [00:29:37]:
And our guy Brett had three guys over there helping. There's four guys holding pry bars, certain ways, trying to get it. Trying to get the bolt in so he didn't damage the threads. You know what I mean?
Chris Gayne [00:29:45]:
Yeah.
Bryan Pollock [00:29:46]:
You go to some shops, you know, and not all shops are like that. I hate to paint with a wide bush. Not all shops are like that, but,
Chris Gayne [00:29:52]:
I mean, we could safely say, you know, dealerships are kind of set up that way. I never worked in a dealership. From what I've heard, it's. Yeah, you got your own shit, man.
Bryan Pollock [00:29:59]:
Yeah. Good luck.
Chris Gayne [00:30:00]:
Yeah, look.
Chris Gayne [00:30:01]:
When I first opened my shop, I thought my old systems would keep up. The software that I had would continue to evolve. But as we grew the slow estimates, scattered workflow, increasing downtime, it really just. It was becoming a real problem. That's why I switched to techmetric. It's not just software. It's a complete shop management system that makes my life easier. Smart jobs, instant estimates, integrated payments, integrated financing options.
Chris Gayne [00:30:27]:
I mean, it allows me to focus on the work that actually makes me money and not get bogged down in the other details. My shop's repair orders have jumped over 300% since switching to TechMetric. And when I need help, their support team responds in real time. I actually was online with them asking questions just this week, and I got answers in minutes rather than having to wait for callbacks and emails days later. If your system is holding you back, it's time for a change. Tap the link in the show notes and see how techmetric can help you move your shop forward.
Bryan Pollock [00:30:56]:
That's not what I want to be a part of, dude.
Chris Gayne [00:30:58]:
I like, so I like it and I hate it, right? I like it because I think you separate, right? You separate the men from the boys. And I mean that.
Bryan Pollock [00:31:06]:
That's true.
Chris Gayne [00:31:07]:
Some of the best texts I ever had was a woman, so I'm not. I don't mean that in a sexist way, but it just separates the good ones from the bad ones right off the rip. At the same time, we're all better together. Right. So I don't like that feast or famine kind of set up at the same time.
Bryan Pollock [00:31:21]:
When you've told the. When you've told the customer, hey, I'm going to have your stuff done at the end of the day today. And you have a guy and it's three o'. Clock.
Chris Gayne [00:31:28]:
Yep.
Bryan Pollock [00:31:29]:
And it's. A couple of guys will step in and help them, versus it's going to take them two hours.
Chris Gayne [00:31:33]:
Right.
Bryan Pollock [00:31:33]:
To get there from here.
Chris Gayne [00:31:34]:
Right.
Bryan Pollock [00:31:35]:
I like a couple guys being able to stop what they're doing comfortably. Right. It's not a big deal.
Chris Gayne [00:31:39]:
Right?
Bryan Pollock [00:31:40]:
It's not a big deal. Everybody just goes over, helps the guy.
Chris Gayne [00:31:42]:
Yeah.
Bryan Pollock [00:31:43]:
It's not a problem.
Chris Gayne [00:31:44]:
Right. Like, you know, with our. We kind of. We've tried a bunch of different things out, like pay compensation and incentives and stuff like that. I mean, if you keep a shop, incentive where. Yeah, you're right, I'm coming to helping you. But it's still, It's a shop goal. So if we meet that goal, who cares?
Bryan Pollock [00:31:58]:
Right?
Chris Gayne [00:31:59]:
Right. I don't like the idea of that.
Bryan Pollock [00:32:01]:
The individual.
Chris Gayne [00:32:02]:
Yeah. I don't want individuals. I don't want individuals.
Bryan Pollock [00:32:04]:
Yeah. You don't want a bunch of little businesses running under your own roofer.
Chris Gayne [00:32:08]:
No.
Bryan Pollock [00:32:08]:
Right.
Chris Gayne [00:32:09]:
No. And I think that causes people.
Bryan Pollock [00:32:11]:
There'll be heartburn. We'll release this episode. There will be heartburn. And not every, you know, there's some people I really respect do run flat rate.
Chris Gayne [00:32:17]:
Yeah. Again, it's fine. Well, that's, that's what I like, what I love about our group. My favorite thing about the group chat that you and I are in together. What is there six of us in there? Seven of us, whatever. Every single one of those shops is run differently.
Bryan Pollock [00:32:29]:
Yeah.
Chris Gayne [00:32:29]:
They're not run the same. There's little differences with each of them. And some of them are significant. Right. Especially when you bring Zeb in. Like, he's completely different from everybody else,
Bryan Pollock [00:32:38]:
but he's doing the opposite of everybody.
Chris Gayne [00:32:39]:
He is.
Chris Gayne [00:32:40]:
But, man, when you really like everybody's
Bryan Pollock [00:32:42]:
flat rate and yeah, I got a million bays per technician. I don't. I'm just.
Chris Gayne [00:32:48]:
Each tech gets 30,000 square feet.
Bryan Pollock [00:32:50]:
Each tech has 30,000 thousand square foot of their own. And. Yeah, but I don't know if you've
Chris Gayne [00:32:57]:
ever been there, but I've been there, what, three times now? And when you walk in and you watch those guys work, it's like they're just going, it works. What he's doing absolutely works.
Bryan Pollock [00:33:05]:
And they have Multiple trucks in and they get stuck on one. If they do get stuck on one, which get stuck. Probably doesn't happen often because from what I understand, Susie runs type.
Chris Gayne [00:33:13]:
Yep.
Bryan Pollock [00:33:13]:
But if they do just move on to the next one. Because it's already in.
Chris Gayne [00:33:16]:
Yep. It's already there.
Bryan Pollock [00:33:17]:
They've got zero time. And that's something.
Chris Gayne [00:33:19]:
That's something that we embrace. So in. So I lost two texts February.
Bryan Pollock [00:33:25]:
Now I remember this.
Chris Gayne [00:33:26]:
Now, mind you, I only had four, so I lost.
Bryan Pollock [00:33:29]:
I remember this. But it was a good. It was a good loss for you.
Chris Gayne [00:33:31]:
It was.
Bryan Pollock [00:33:32]:
It turned out to be a good loss.
Chris Gayne [00:33:33]:
So great dudes. I wish them the best, but as a business, we did better. Right. And this came up with. Lucas was talking the other day about, you know, base protect and this and that. And I comment on his post that
Bryan Pollock [00:33:45]:
there's not one in answer.
Chris Gayne [00:33:46]:
There's not. Man. We. We went from. We have four bays and I had four techs and I would kind of do diag wherever I could out of the way of those guys or take one of them and let them be my hands while I was, you know, being the brains of the diag. But neither here nor there. Losing half of our workforce but doubling the bays that the guys that we have that stayed have.
Bryan Pollock [00:34:10]:
It's just an. It's an.
Chris Gayne [00:34:11]:
They did as much or more build hours with two than we did with four.
Bryan Pollock [00:34:16]:
Yeah.
Chris Gayne [00:34:16]:
And I think it's.
Bryan Pollock [00:34:17]:
Which. Maybe which. Which can be related to a million things.
Chris Gayne [00:34:20]:
I think it's fine. I think it's the way that Zeb runs his. Where if Mike. If I had Mike working on a truck here I went and grabbed the. What the next one I knew was died and ready to go. I put it right next to him, and I said, you hit a spot where you. Where you parts. Whatever this is what this needs.
Chris Gayne [00:34:34]:
Here's a ticket. You jump right on this truck. Don't even hesitate. Don't ask. Go here. Do the same thing with Adrian. So you always have at least two in the bay ready to go.
Bryan Pollock [00:34:43]:
And they're just turning all day.
Chris Gayne [00:34:44]:
They turn. And that's like they're tests. They want to turn profit. Well, turn down. I think they turn hours.
Bryan Pollock [00:34:50]:
I think that people who are efficient at what they do and good at what they do with. With mechanical things in particular. I think that. I think there's. I think there's a hyper focus.
Chris Gayne [00:35:03]:
Okay.
Bryan Pollock [00:35:03]:
Okay. And I think the hyper focus. It. If they're hyper focused, they're very efficient when it gets broken up to work. Pause Work pause. Work pause. I think it busts that down and having everything ready to go and not having the weight and this, that. And the other thing is the difference between 80% tech efficiency and 150% tech efficiency, honestly, honest to goodness.
Bryan Pollock [00:35:29]:
And that's why I think a lot of shops say that, that whatever, over 100% is an unreachable number. And our guys, don't get me wrong, we don't. We don't run it like this magical 150 or 200% because we have. We have a base situation where there's one body per bay and happens and happens. And it's fine. And it's fine. But I think when you're dealing with techs that are very good and very efficient and do mechanical repair very well, right? I think keeping them.
Chris Gayne [00:35:58]:
Boom, boom, engaged.
Bryan Pollock [00:35:59]:
Boom, boom, boom. They want to run like that. It's like a racehorse.
Chris Gayne [00:36:02]:
Yeah.
Bryan Pollock [00:36:02]:
And what does a racehorse want? You ever see you ever. For some reason, my. My Instagram feed gets all funny, but, you know, for a while it was hot dogs. Now there's like rodeo. It's. It's crazy. And some people get that reference. It was, it was like literal hot dogs, like 711 roller dogs.
Bryan Pollock [00:36:18]:
Anyways. But anyways, recently it got switched up to a lot of rodeo.
Chris Gayne [00:36:22]:
Okay.
Bryan Pollock [00:36:23]:
For some reason, I don't know why, it's. It's algorithm does what algorithm does, right? And then you start watching it because, you know, it's kind of cool to watch, you know, some dude try to ride a bull. I'm like, that guy's a freaking, freaking badass.
Bryan Pollock [00:36:32]:
Yeah.
Chris Gayne [00:36:33]:
Yeah.
Bryan Pollock [00:36:34]:
But anyways, like, there's a couple barrel racer videos that have popped up, right? And you look at these barrel racing horses, and if you ever. I don't know if you've ever seen it, you'd have to watch a video or maybe pay attention to radio or something. So this, this girl or sometimes a guy or whatever, they'll get the horse and it'll be like in the shoot, like ready to go out and run the barrels.
Chris Gayne [00:36:55]:
Yeah.
Bryan Pollock [00:36:56]:
And they're like full pole, trying to hold the horse back. Because what does the thing want to do?
Chris Gayne [00:37:01]:
Wants to go.
Bryan Pollock [00:37:01]:
Wants to freaking run, right? And I think there's a lot of techs out there. I think, I think there. There's a lot of bad technicians. I'll say there's a lot of bad techs out there, but I think there's also. I think there's also a lot of people that just want to fricking Run. And they've got more frustration with the fact that they just can't run than anything else. I really do. Because I think there's a lot of guys that are maybe labeled as bad, but they're just not in the right environment.
Chris Gayne [00:37:38]:
Here's what I think.
Bryan Pollock [00:37:39]:
I'm ready.
Chris Gayne [00:37:40]:
And it's on par with what you're saying, but I'll take it a step further.
Bryan Pollock [00:37:43]:
Okay.
Chris Gayne [00:37:43]:
Right. Like. Like here's, you know, here's. Here's my confession. Right. Like, if there's. If there's a problem in my shop, it's me.
Bryan Pollock [00:37:55]:
Sure.
Chris Gayne [00:37:55]:
It's me. And I never, not once will I go and say I had a guy make a mistake, cost us an engine. Right. I didn't go yell at him, call him right now. I've never yelled at him. Didn't discipline him.
Bryan Pollock [00:38:10]:
Yep.
Chris Gayne [00:38:10]:
Didn't. Didn't take money. Didn't do shit. Yep. I sat. I said, I need some time to process this. And what I did is just, where did I screw this up? Because he's good at what he does, but he made a mistake. So was it.
Chris Gayne [00:38:24]:
Was it the process? Was it. Did I rush him? Were you rushing? Because we were. I remember it was around Christmas time. So we're trying to. I give everybody two weeks off at Christmas. Like, they don't have a choice.
Bryan Pollock [00:38:32]:
You're taking time off, but you're gonna be off. So now you're.
Chris Gayne [00:38:35]:
But we need to get that truck done.
Bryan Pollock [00:38:36]:
You're under the gun, trying to stuff up. You're trying to tie up all the loose ends. Yep.
Chris Gayne [00:38:39]:
That's what we're trying to do. Because we're gonna be.
Bryan Pollock [00:38:40]:
But you're at least evaluate that if that was a possibility. Exactly.
Chris Gayne [00:38:44]:
Somewhere I screwed up.
Bryan Pollock [00:38:45]:
Sure.
Chris Gayne [00:38:45]:
Right. Because I. I think. I think that's a weakness of shitty leadership or shitty character to blame somebody else for your. What, your position you're in. Sure. I think texts get labeled as bad texts by people who don't know what the. They're doing when it comes to managing people or teaching or any of that.
Chris Gayne [00:39:09]:
And I'm not saying I'm an expert. Right. But what I do know from a lot of leadership experience is everybody's different. Right. I have a hard time with my own son in the shop. We just. This constantly. Right.
Chris Gayne [00:39:20]:
And you know, I think the best thing for him, he's gonna go work for somebody else over the summer. And I think it's great for him because I want him to get a different style.
Bryan Pollock [00:39:27]:
Right.
Chris Gayne [00:39:28]:
It's. I have a real Hard time with, you know, when, when someone gets in these stupid. I say stupid. These auto shop owner groups and they're bitching about tax and they're. It's like, you really need to go get a mirror. Right. Because you're probably a big part of the problem.
Bryan Pollock [00:39:43]:
Well. And at the end of the day, if nothing else, you are. Who hired them?
Chris Gayne [00:39:46]:
You are. Right.
Bryan Pollock [00:39:48]:
Like, let's say, let's say you do hire somebody and they are, they are exactly what's described. Well, why'd you hire them? Right, right, right. You know what I mean?
Chris Gayne [00:39:55]:
It's still your fault.
Bryan Pollock [00:39:56]:
Yeah. It's still your fault.
Chris Gayne [00:39:57]:
Or did you. What did, what did you do to mentor them? What did you do to get them better? What did you do for follow on training? Did you do any follow on training? Did he get offered to come to tools? Like, that's.
Chris Gayne [00:40:06]:
Sure.
Chris Gayne [00:40:07]:
What have you done? Because my thing is, if they took the time to come to you because they wanted to do this, I'm going to say more than nine times out of ten they have the aptitude and ability.
Chris Gayne [00:40:20]:
Just.
Chris Gayne [00:40:20]:
You probably didn't get them there. I'm not saying there's people that are turds.
Bryan Pollock [00:40:25]:
You got them doing the wrong job. Right, Right. Like, because here's the reality. Not everybody. Not everybody is. Not only is not everybody cut out to be, you know, to, to die and triage cars. I like to use the word triage a lot. Obviously, not only is everybody not cut out to die and triage cars efficiently, but there's different things that guys are going to gravitate towards.
Bryan Pollock [00:40:46]:
There's different jobs they're going to like doing. Right. Like, I got a guy who does a really good job, like, and it's an easy job and it's not a complicated job. And it's like people are going to listen to. What kind of brag is that? But I have a guy that puts oil coolers and pentastars very well, cleans them up real nice. The job's done. Right. Everything's torqued.
Bryan Pollock [00:41:04]:
He does it very efficiently.
Chris Gayne [00:41:05]:
Yep.
Bryan Pollock [00:41:07]:
So if this guy's that good at doing that job, why would I dispatch him something else? Just like I have a guy. I already told the story before, I think on the podcast. I have a guy that welds exhaust very well. He can look at the problem. And this isn't. You guys probably don't deal with this, but where we are, the rots out. Right.
Chris Gayne [00:41:29]:
I've told you, we don't even have brake flaring tools in our shop.
Bryan Pollock [00:41:31]:
Yeah, a lot of times. A lot of times you can't even get the parts right. Like there's certain parts that are discontinued, you, whatever. So you gotta, you gotta fix it either. Gotta buy aftermarket stuff. Which. Aftermarket stuff. The difference between the OE and aftermarket is OE went 12 years, aftermarket's gonna go 2 aftermarket.
Bryan Pollock [00:41:45]:
Won't make it out of warranty. So we got a guy that does really good with fixing exhaust. Well, in this. Well, in that we give him all sorts by. And he can just look at that thing and figure it out. And man, I used to be the guy. I fixed all the exhaust. For a long time.
Bryan Pollock [00:41:56]:
Yeah, for a long time. I fixed all the exhaust. This kid better than me at it.
Chris Gayne [00:42:02]:
Yeah.
Bryan Pollock [00:42:02]:
I mean, you know, it's hard when you get somebody that's almost. That's, that's nearly 20 years. Not 20 years, 15 years younger than you that does your job better. Instead of getting pissed off, just be happy the guy does the job better.
Chris Gayne [00:42:16]:
Yeah. And you want him to get other experience. But man, if they're good at it, they're good at it.
Bryan Pollock [00:42:23]:
Yeah, like he's good at it.
Chris Gayne [00:42:24]:
What I try to do is, you know, like. Like Adrian. Adrian likes Duramax. Good brother. You can have every single one of them.
Bryan Pollock [00:42:29]:
The other guys, a million times. I'm like, how many frickin different size bolts they got up this thing? I never do another one again. I don't. I won't be mad.
Chris Gayne [00:42:36]:
Right?
Bryan Pollock [00:42:37]:
Yeah, it's right.
Chris Gayne [00:42:39]:
Yeah, yeah, it's. I mean. And that's. I'll say that's a thing that, you know, a luxury. I shouldn't say a luxury we have, but basically it is in Dale County Diesel. We're diesel trucks, right. We do Power Stroke. Coming.
Bryan Pollock [00:42:51]:
You're already specialized.
Chris Gayne [00:42:53]:
Well, for the guys too. They get used to. It's like. Like midway between. Like one of your guys. You do a lot of different makes and models?
Bryan Pollock [00:43:00]:
Sure.
Chris Gayne [00:43:01]:
We're not a dealership. We're in the middle. Right. They touch three different kinds of trucks. I don't touch Titan Cummins. I don't touch them stupid Eco Diesels. I don't touch them Powerstroke Mini Power Strokes.
Bryan Pollock [00:43:10]:
So you don't put used motors in Eco Diesels that go cry.
Chris Gayne [00:43:13]:
We're not a used parts shop. Yeah. We don't do that.
Bryan Pollock [00:43:15]:
You don't do that. You don't know. You'd rather. You'd rather get a prostate exam with a cactus than put a used motor in Eco Diesel?
Chris Gayne [00:43:23]:
There's no chance of that happening.
Bryan Pollock [00:43:24]:
Okay, good. I don't even want to.
Chris Gayne [00:43:26]:
We did the last eco Diesel we worked on, dude, was a. Was a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Beautiful, beautiful SUV with a diesel in it. The oil cooler ruptured. Well, we got it because Dodge said it needed an engine. The guy drove it to a shop and I'm like, well, can't be that. Runs pretty good for needing an engine and. But it's a coolant's full of oil.
Chris Gayne [00:43:46]:
I'm like, you need oil cooler for sure. And Dives does. I read their service info and it says something about you should be changing the engine if whatever. But the truck was fine or the SUV was fine. The point of the story is why I hate them. We do the oil cooler, but that oil had. What do you call that had weakened the integrity of the coolant hoses.
Bryan Pollock [00:44:07]:
Oh yeah.
Chris Gayne [00:44:08]:
And so they were like really soft and squishy and you couldn't like clean them. So like, oh, we just need new hoses. Dodge doesn't make them or Stellantis, whoever the hell is making that pile of
Bryan Pollock [00:44:19]:
identity crisis, Auto, fca, Stell, any of that. You had to find it on Daimler, whatever they're calling them nowadays.
Chris Gayne [00:44:27]:
Yeah, Absolute junk. So I don't touch that crap.
Bryan Pollock [00:44:30]:
Yeah, I hate.
Chris Gayne [00:44:31]:
So our guys, you know, they get a taste of, hey man, we're generally doing the same thing. And then as we, you know, I told the world that we weren't touching six o's anymore, and that was a lie. We took in two right after that.
Bryan Pollock [00:44:43]:
The lie detector does determine that was a lie.
Chris Gayne [00:44:46]:
Sorry.
Bryan Pollock [00:44:46]:
You know, it's. And that almost goes back to like policy. Everybody wants to set, you know, a major fad that we listen to in auto. Auto repair. And I'll apologize for the people who do this. They're always talking about hard policy. Hard policy, hard policy. And even when you try to do hard policy, it's almost like, like, even
Chris Gayne [00:45:08]:
like no quotes over the phone.
Bryan Pollock [00:45:09]:
Yeah, like you're.
Chris Gayne [00:45:11]:
There's going to be an exception.
Bryan Pollock [00:45:12]:
Yeah, there's going to be an exception
Chris Gayne [00:45:14]:
if somebody is going to yell at me. But yeah, you just.
Bryan Pollock [00:45:16]:
There's going to be an exception. I'm not going to do six O's anymore. Right. Well, I got some. Some really good customers that run small businesses and farms. Borderline, borderline fleet stuff. If one of them guys bought a really nice six zero somewhere and it was broke, I'm not gonna tell a customer that's spending 35 grand a year with me that I'm not going to work on their six zero.
Chris Gayne [00:45:39]:
We're down south. Those six o's the riders still everywhere, alive and well.
Bryan Pollock [00:45:43]:
Yeah, I'm. I'm relieved up by me. Most of them are rotted up to
Chris Gayne [00:45:46]:
the door handles, but I wish ours were just. They would go away.
Bryan Pollock [00:45:49]:
But, but like I have a couple set. I just, I just worked on a 73 the week before last. And it's like, what are you gonna do? The guy's a good customer. He's been coming to you forever. He's got a couple other cars he brings and he's got this 7:3 and
Chris Gayne [00:46:01]:
he wants you to fix it and
Bryan Pollock [00:46:02]:
he wants you to fix.
Chris Gayne [00:46:03]:
He knows the value. What are you gonna Appreciates the value.
Bryan Pollock [00:46:06]:
He's not telling me he won't work on his 7:3.
Chris Gayne [00:46:09]:
It's hard.
Bryan Pollock [00:46:09]:
And I go through the same spiel. It's so funny. I go through the same spiel every time I do my thing. Because, you know, because first, you know, I have like my whole process where when something's stupid, like I have to get irritated about it and I'm like, oh, we're kind of seven threes. I'm like, I know whole ass shops in the south where these things aren't junk that won't even do them. And then I'm like, okay, calm down. Just do it. Do your job.
Bryan Pollock [00:46:31]:
Shut up and do your job.
Chris Gayne [00:46:32]:
Let the hate flow.
Bryan Pollock [00:46:33]:
Let the hate flow.
Chris Gayne [00:46:34]:
Right?
Bryan Pollock [00:46:35]:
Yeah, it's. Everybody wants to set these hard and fast processes, but it doesn't, man. It's a very dynamic. And that gets into.
Chris Gayne [00:46:43]:
Well, especially when we start talking relational. Right.
Bryan Pollock [00:46:46]:
I was just gonna go there. That gets in the difference between transactional and relational. I mean, it's a huge difference. How do you run a relational business? How do you take care of, you know, Mr. Jones on this, this and this, but you're not going to take care of them on that.
Chris Gayne [00:46:59]:
So I'll tell you how you take care of them. We just did it with a six four, six four powerstroke. Everybody knows them. Well, this thing is a two wheel drive, extended cab, long bed, liftgate on the bed. Just a pile of crap. Crap. And I'm like, all right. And I'm not trying to knock anybody else's truck.
Chris Gayne [00:47:15]:
It's their truck. I get it. But we know chances are whatever's wrong with that truck is going to cost more than the value going to total the vehicle. So I go in almost every time they're old enough.
Bryan Pollock [00:47:26]:
It's almost every time.
Chris Gayne [00:47:27]:
Yes.
Chris Gayne [00:47:28]:
And that's so. So Adrian was like, don't you dare poke. Because Adrian loves the six fours. He loves them, except his just blew a head gasket like they do, which
Bryan Pollock [00:47:36]:
the repair, if he had to pay for it, would exceed the value of the truck 100%.
Chris Gayne [00:47:39]:
Just 100.
Bryan Pollock [00:47:40]:
He actually. Actually. Depending on what trim package it is and layout of the bed and cab, maybe even the bolts in the head gasket might totally. Sorry. Don't hate me. I think it was Zeb.
Chris Gayne [00:47:51]:
I made a post about that 6 4, and he's like, bro, if that thing needs a cab bushing bolt, it's total valve.
Bryan Pollock [00:47:56]:
Yeah, right.
Chris Gayne [00:47:58]:
But then the guy, he dropped it off after hours, and I hadn't talked to him. I didn't even know the truck. And I. But I find the key and I go look at it. It turned the. The gauge on or the. The battery on. So I could see the get power onto the dash.
Chris Gayne [00:48:10]:
It's got 430, 000 miles. And I'm like, there ain't no way this runs. Turn the key and it fires right up. But I'm like, son of a.
Bryan Pollock [00:48:16]:
What were the chances?
Chris Gayne [00:48:17]:
All right. But it's got a gaping oil leak that we think is the rear main,
Bryan Pollock [00:48:21]:
but it is, but it's probably the
Chris Gayne [00:48:22]:
upper oil pan and the rear cover and everything else. Oh, you got to take off the damn fuel cover to do that. So with those. That was a long way of me saying, luckily with those trucks, the repairs are so expensive that even if you, you know, you don't want to work on it, you won't have to. Because once you quote it correctly, nobody's doing that. They're not going to do it.
Bryan Pollock [00:48:44]:
Once you quote it correctly. Or, you know, maybe not in the case of that one, but many of them. That one at 400k was probably on his third engine, I'm sure.
Chris Gayne [00:48:51]:
At least.
Bryan Pollock [00:48:52]:
At least, you know, once you pull the oil cap off, nobody wants to do the proper repair.
Chris Gayne [00:48:56]:
That's how we take care of them, though, right? Like we're talking about a relational and being take. How do we take care of these people? Being honest and don't fix this truck.
Bryan Pollock [00:49:03]:
I was just telling. I was just telling somebody earlier, a coach would choke our front end. We tell more people to go trade their vehicle, and some of these coaches, they would lose their mind, Reagan. Like, probably two cars a day. We advise people to just go, I
Chris Gayne [00:49:19]:
do it all the time. Yeah, I do it all the time.
Bryan Pollock [00:49:21]:
Go trade it in again.
Chris Gayne [00:49:22]:
I got a lot of Friends in the area too, though. And it's 3,500 now.
Bryan Pollock [00:49:26]:
And that's just, that's just fixing this problem. You have these things have this, this, this problem. It's like clockwork. You're going to be dealing with it. Move it along. Yep.
Chris Gayne [00:49:34]:
I have a friend of mine, he brought us a 2011 6, 7 powerstroke. Nice lariat. He bought it new black on black. Good looking truck, but he bought it new230,000 miles at this point. And he's like, yeah, it's got oil leak. And I'm like, okay, let me crawl under there. Front cover, vacuum pump, oil paint. I mean, it's leaking literally everywhere.
Bryan Pollock [00:49:52]:
Engine out, reseal type of oil leak.
Chris Gayne [00:49:55]:
This is an engine out job.
Bryan Pollock [00:49:56]:
Yeah.
Chris Gayne [00:49:56]:
It's going to exceed the value of you. You're. You're pushing the value of the truck as is. And he's like, what do I do? I need. I like my truck. I want to fix it. I said, I said my best advice is don't touch it. Sell it for whatever you get for it and go get you something new.
Bryan Pollock [00:50:10]:
Just move on.
Chris Gayne [00:50:11]:
Right.
Chris Gayne [00:50:12]:
And he. So he comes pulling in, I don't know, it was a week later, and he's in a nice new Black King Ranch. And. And I was like, oh, you get rid of the truck? He goes. And then the truck comes in behind him. It's his wife driving it. I go, what the hell is that doing here? He's like, they wouldn't even take it on trade. And it's a nice truck.
Chris Gayne [00:50:28]:
It's just old.
Bryan Pollock [00:50:29]:
It's just too old.
Chris Gayne [00:50:30]:
And so Reagan drives it now. She bought it from him and she drives it and we just keep oil in it. Right. Like, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna fix it. It's not worth it. But that's. We were honest. And man, he, he thanked me for that.
Chris Gayne [00:50:39]:
Right. I didn't take any money. Money from him, but I did you. Right. And so that's. I'm good with that. I'm good with that because it's just better. I couldn't imagine fixing that truck and then it drops a lifter or it spins a bearing or it does whatever
Bryan Pollock [00:50:55]:
they do because it's got the kind of miles. Yeah. Our 6R140 is durable. Yes. That many miles, who knows?
Chris Gayne [00:51:00]:
It could go tomorrow and it shouldn't surprise anybody.
Bryan Pollock [00:51:02]:
Yeah.
Chris Gayne [00:51:03]:
Yeah.
Bryan Pollock [00:51:03]:
But it's been great having you on here.
Chris Gayne [00:51:05]:
Yeah, dude, it was cool.
Bryan Pollock [00:51:06]:
This is awesome.
Chris Gayne [00:51:06]:
Yeah. We should do it more. What's that we should do it more.
Bryan Pollock [00:51:10]:
We definitely should do it again. We'll do around two sometimes.
Chris Gayne [00:51:12]:
We should definitely talk more shit too.
Bryan Pollock [00:51:14]:
Definitely talk more.
Chris Gayne [00:51:16]:
Thanks for listening to Confessions of a Shop Owner where we lay it all out. The good, the bad, and sometimes the super messed up. I'm your host, Mike Allen, here to remind you that even the pros screw it up sometimes. So why not laugh a little bit, learn a little bit, maybe have another drink? You got a confession of your own or a topic you'd like me to cover? Or do you just want to let me know what an idiot I am? Email mikeonfessionsofashopowner.com or call and leave a message. The number 704-confess. That's 704-266-3377. If you enjoyed this episode episode be sure to like subscribe or follow. Join us on this crazy journey that is shop ownership.
Chris Gayne [00:51:53]:
I'll see you on the next episode.