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Taking the Hire Road is a podcast dedicated to providing tips to help manage the driver recruiting process while addressing the ongoing challenges related to the driver shortage and driver retention. Hosted by Jeremy Reymer, Founder and CEO of DriverReach, this bimonthly podcast shines a light on the challenges that carriers are facing and aims to help companies hire quality drivers with greater efficiency.
Jeremy Reymer [00:00:07]:
Welcome to Taking the Hire Road, a special show dedicated to the trucking industry, primarily around the confluence of recruiting, retention and compliance in the fifth year. As the host of the show, I bring over two decades of industry experience, both on the carrier side as well as the vendor side. Throughout the year, I interview industry experts and thought leaders who bring their insight to the driver life cycle as we discuss the industry's greatest challenges. I always appreciate your feedback, good or bad. Don't forget to leave a rating and a review. I'd also like to thank and highlight the show's valuable sponsors. Their dedication and commitment to the industry and to the show is greatly appreciated. If you're interested in being a sponsor of the show or joining me for an interview, please email jeremy@takingtohireroad.com this week I'm honored to be joined by an industry friend and ally who whose focus is all around ensuring that we mitigate risk and are as safe as possible, Gurdon Blackwell, Chief Revenue Officer with Asurint Background Screening Solutions.
Gurdon Blackwell [00:01:05]:
Thank you, Jeremy, very much. It's a pleasure to be here. Congratulations on all of your years of success and knowing you for a long period of time as well so.
Jeremy Reymer [00:01:13]:
As a reliable vendor in the trucking space. I think it's always helpful when the audience can also get to know you a little bit on a personal level and know, after all, people do business with people they know and trust. So that said, I'd love to hear about your journey into trucking that led you to Asurint, and perhaps you can share a bit about just the important work that Asurint does for so many of our audience, and especially why that's so critical against the backdrop of increasing, you know, nuclear verdicts and settlements. And then I'd also like to get into how Asurint just allows for a more automated experience with your customers. And I'm sure that's, you know, likely an important differentiator in the space. And then I'd also like to know just if, you know, what we may be seeing and hearing, you know, just what's to come with the market as we've just been mired in this sort of challenging environment. So do you think we can get to all of that today?
Gurdon Blackwell [00:02:00]:
I'm pretty sure we can cover it all, Jeremy. Absolutely.
Jeremy Reymer [00:02:03]:
One of my favorite ways to kick off an episode is to ask my guests about a favorite book or books that they'd recommend to the audience. So do you have a specific book that's been particularly Impactful that you can share with the audience?
Gurdon Blackwell [00:02:15]:
I am an avid reader. Probably this is going to be a little unique, but one of my favorite books that I've ever read is a book called Shibumi. So if you look that up, it's actually a very interesting book. The Alienist was also by Caleb Carr was also one of my favorites as well. I thought that was a very interesting story. Many in my organization that are also avid readers as well, we actually have a Slack channel called book club where we make recommendations to one another on different genres of books that we're all reading. And then we actually pick a book once a month to, you know, have a small time, small amount of time together to kind of go over the book, everybody's thoughts, insights on what they just read. We recently just finished Shoe Dog, the Phil Knight Story.
Gurdon Blackwell [00:02:58]:
And I think next month we are going to review Revenge of the Tipping Point. That's a new book by Malcolm Gladwell. So those are a couple of things that are in front of us, you know, today. So listen, it's always good to absorb, you know, to learn and to read up on not only things in your industry or your expertise, but also for fun as well.
Jeremy Reymer [00:03:17]:
I think that's really unique. I don't talk to many guests who have this sort of like a book club Slack channel. I think that says a lot to the company, to the culture that that's being promoted. So kudos to you and to Asurint. For those of you listening, if that's not something that you're doing but think that it could be, I would encourage you to, to embrace that. I think it's a great idea. So thank you for that.
Gurdon Blackwell [00:03:39]:
Sure. Feel free to steal the idea if I can add any value today and that's it then hopefully you can run with it. But all good.
Jeremy Reymer [00:03:46]:
Well, and thank you for the recommendations. I've heard of the Alchemist. I haven't read it. I'm looking forward to reading the Malcolm Gladwell book. So I haven't gotten to that yet either. So both of those are added to my Goodreads list. And then Shibumi. Is that what you said?
Gurdon Blackwell [00:03:58]:
Yes.
Jeremy Reymer [00:03:59]:
Okay, let's learn a little bit about Gurdon. How did your path lead you to the trucking industry and your role at Asurint?
Gurdon Blackwell [00:04:06]:
Sure, absolutely. So for all fairness, I've never been in the trucking industry myself. I've been inside of the background screening industry, servicing the trucking industry for close to 20 years. I joined Asurint in a pathway through my career almost about a year ago now, in early March of 2024. And one of the things that Asurint has in terms of its client base is a very, a very large subset of that being in the transportation industry. Part of that is from very deep interactions and partnerships with other third party type applications and technologies that also support the trucking industry and overall transportation in and of itself. So what we do as a background screening provider is incredibly important for the transportation industry in terms of. To your point, as you mentioned earlier, Jeremy, about mitigating risk, right?
Gurdon Blackwell [00:05:01]:
Right. And it's a really important word to use because, you know, in the background screening industry or like anything else, it's really impossible to eliminate risk. There's nobody out there that can tell you they can find anything on anybody that exists in order to tell you that, you know, they may not be a person you want to hire, but what we do and how we do it and the processes around how we do it, we believe we do better than anybody else and helps us really get to that mitigation of risk to the highest degree in order to protect your brand and protect your business and protect your customer base.
Jeremy Reymer [00:05:30]:
You and I first met, it was like the early days of COVID I think it was in the context of a virtual HR event that we were both involved in. That was before you moved to Asurint and where as you probably know, I've enjoyed a great relationship for many years. In fact, Asurint was the first background screening integration partner of Driver Reach, the company I founded. So we've got a, a rich history together. Can you share just with the audience a little bit more about Asurint specifically and how best helping your hiring customers?
Gurdon Blackwell [00:06:00]:
It's really been amazing. So I worked with a large competitor for of Asurint for many, many years. But coming here, the business has been around for close to 20 years. Entrepreneurial, founded and run in that pretty much full period of time and all organic growth. So it's a real testament to the grit of the founders of this organization to really go out there, you know, and find business, but more importantly to want to help people, right? That's the bottom line. And what we do in terms of making sure that we can provide the service that allows you to hire the best people.
Gurdon Blackwell [00:06:33]:
And everybody will tell you that, you know, the people are what make the business. So, you know, hiring good people, you're really going to have an effect on your entire workforce. As such, you know, we have really developed what we believe to be, you know, extremely unique technology in a way that we search for criminal records and acquire data from other third parties that many transportation companies utilize in order to evaluate, be it a driver or anybody inside of their organization that they are bringing in to support the logistics and the ongoing work of the business. We not only support transportation, but we also support other verticals such as staffing. So there's a crossover, right? There's a lot of staffing organizations that do third party staffing for transportation companies that supplement their primary hiring. And we also support verticals like retail, which is also interesting because, you know, there can be in retail a mix of both transportation from a distribution center standpoint, you know, whether that's logistically bringing stuff, you know, to a store or a location, you know, from a distribution center that that is either a third party or owned by the actual retailer. You see a lot of that in like the Buc-ee's of the world and Circle Ks, right? Like not only are they the retail location from like that. That standpoint, but they also have their own transportation side of the business as well.
Gurdon Blackwell [00:07:51]:
It ties into it. But I would say that our familiarity and long standing history has always been in supporting, you know, transportation as a vertical.
Jeremy Reymer [00:07:59]:
Well, I know as a former employer, we hired hundreds of drivers a year. I was a customer of Asurint back then as my pre driver reach days, my driver staffing days. And I was originally sold on the differentiator that was the criminal background screen, that was an Asurint product. And you know, on the surface, for those in the audience, it may be perceived that, you know, background screening companies are a. Are a commodity. But I know, you know firsthand that's certainly not the case. Can you share what it is about Asurint that helps differentiate you from other providers, whether it's not just the criminal? I'm sure there's so much more than that, but if you could elaborate, I'd be happy to.
Gurdon Blackwell [00:08:37]:
And it's a really important point that you bring up. And I can literally probably talk for hours about the differentiators and, you know, what you know or don't know. But we totally get it, right? We know in terms of not being in this business and ultimately thinking. And you're absolutely right. We are commoditized as an industry, right? So it is definitely, you know, trying to put out there what are the differentiators and really more helping to educate people right around what a good background check is, what a great background check is, and what it takes to be able to produce one. You know, there's a common misnomer that, you know, a national criminal background Check, right. Which people call things, you know, will cover everything and anything, right? There are 50 states in the union, there are approximately 3,400 counties in those 50 states. There are 96 federal districts and not a single one of them report into a direct repository, not even to the FBI.
Gurdon Blackwell [00:09:30]:
So it's impossible to take somebody's name and their date of birth and their Social Security number and their address and plug it into something and expect to come out with any and anywhere that person has ever been arrested or convicted of a crime. So that's one again misconception in the marketplace when people will tell you, hey, yeah, I have a national criminal check that you can utilize and it's really cheap, that's not worth your time or your effort or your money. But ultimately that's what other organizations, you know, for better or for worse, you know, either are the only things that they have the ability to be able to produce or sell. Because it's really a national database that you purchase, right. And kind of resell, right. Versus what we have done as an organization, which is the critical part of a background check, which is really going to the primary source, right? Going directly to that county jurisdiction and, or that federal district and, or that state repository to search in real time that individual's again, demographic and person identifiable information to see if something exists inside of that specific location. Now again, the location is really, really critical, right? Because ultimately, much like driving insurance, the majority of of insurance claims, you know, for motor vehicle accidents probably happen within a 10 or 15 mile radius of where you live, right? That's because you're just driving around pretty much all the time, you know, where you live. Same thing with the background check and the same thing with a criminal check, right? That's going to happen primarily around where you reside.
Gurdon Blackwell [00:10:55]:
Now, can I have lived in Florida five years ago and have moved to New York and did something in Florida? Absolutely right. But that's no longer my residency, right? So you also need something that allows you to be able to look back in a person's history. You know, they'd be able to say, hey, not only do I live here today, but if I lived in anywhere else in a period of time, general best practices, about seven or 10 years and then being able to say, yeah, I live in New York today, but I lived in Florida, I lived in Oklahoma and I lived in Texas, right? So now as a background screener, I should be able to go to all four of those places and search real time for information if it exists inside of those counties or those States. And that's very, very difficult to do if you are not an organization that over time is built technology and integrations, you know, with these repositories at these court resources to be able to pull that information directly in a very time sensitive and quality manner. That's really what is on the minds of, you know, especially in the transportation industry and the competitiveness, you know, of the industry where you know, you pick up the phone at 11am and you're the fourth recruiter at a trucking company that's called that driver today, right?
Gurdon Blackwell [00:11:58]:
I mean there are just, you know, offers coming all day long. So being able to mitigate that risk and do it the right way, but do it fast and with high quality, that's what you really need to look for in a vendor. And that's really what we believe we're delivering to our customers on a day, day in and day out basis.
Jeremy Reymer [00:12:13]:
So that's a far more comprehensive report obviously, versus the nomenclature that you referenced earlier, you know, the national background screen. And everybody thinks, oh well sure, that's probably all encompassing. If that's national, it's like, it's like saying vegetable oil. It's. Right?
Gurdon Blackwell [00:12:30]:
That's exactly right. Absolutely. And listen it's beyond just the criminal aspect of it too, right? So that's just one component of it. Firstly you got to, you know, if you're a CDL driver and under DOT compliance and fmcsa, you have to follow the regulations, you know, you have to do, you know, crash reporting, you have to do drug testing, you have to do CDLAs, PSP reports, you know, so it's all encompassing and it's all the services that we can do and that we really wrap up in one process, right? There's really not a lot that ultimately that you need to do from a screening standpoint that we can do in one shot, you know, for you in the process of like placing an order for, for a comprehensive background check, let's just say on a driver that has a lot of those different components that are necessary. But I'll give you an example.
Gurdon Blackwell [00:13:09]:
So we had a customer that came to us a number of months ago and basically said, listen, again, I have a lot of competition. There are four or five people calling a driver for a job. There are four or five competitors that are calling my customers to say, hey, you know, are you happy with what you have? And O*NET positioned it in a way, in that same way that they said, hey, you know what, we can give you this for this amount of money, which when they Compared it to what they were paying us. You know, they came to us and said, hey, you know what, we're getting something quoted, something that's like this inexpensive, right? What can you do for us? The price, first of all was so ridiculous that it was like there's no way that who was ever saying this is offering is not comparing apples to apples, right? So it really behooved us to really talk to the customer and educate the customer and really say to them, hey listen, you know what, there's just no way we believe that what they're telling you they're going to do for that price is exactly what you're doing with us today. And you know, long story short, ultimately we, we gave them some guidance to say, tell them, will they get this? Will they do this? Will they go here based upon this? And when they did their vetting, right, they really found out that ultimately they were not getting what they were going to get from us for that price point. And so they had a decision to make ultimately in saying, yes, there's something that's less expensive, that is cheaper, but is it going to mitigate the kind of risk that I know that I'm getting from Asurint per se and making sure that I'm hiring the best person that I can. And I think for most organizations, Even though saving four or five bucks here or there on hiring $1,000 is not insignificant, the cost, you know, of hiring a bad driver, right, that gets into an accident or that steals something from a customer, etc, etc.
Gurdon Blackwell [00:14:46]:
And the cost to your brand 100 times worse. So our customers saw it, they appreciated us educating them and giving them the guidance and they actually wound up signing a long term deal with us because of that. So that's what really we try to do, is just to deliver the value, teach people and help people understand what it is that we do and why we're different. And you're going to make the decision, right? If you're not worried about brand and your customer base and you want something cheap because that's all you could afford or that's all you believe you can afford, that's a mind I can't change. But I think most people in this industry are really protective of their brand and will spend the money that they need to. That's, that's competitive in order to get, you know, a very comprehensive background check.
Jeremy Reymer [00:15:31]:
Well, all the more relevant in this A, we're a highly regulated industry. But on top of that, the risk associated with just safety and compliance, I mean, you know, it's a part of life. I get it. But in this ever increasing nuclear verdict environment that we're in, on top of the fact that the economy certainly hasn't been cooperating, I would imagine that it's all the more relevant to make sure carriers are partnering with a comprehensive and reputable provider partner. Really is, I think the operative word there. You mentioned earlier the entrepreneurial spirit and the background that the company stems from. I know part of that is also investing in technology. Did you share a little bit about some of the automation functionality that that exists within the platform?
Gurdon Blackwell [00:16:10]:
Yep, absolutely. First and foremost, the way you interact with us ultimately is through a cloud based platform, right? So we own it, we control it. It gives us a much better ability to be able to, you know, scale and innovate, you know, on the platform because it's something that we've developed. Not everybody can do that, right? You put your eggs in certain baskets that, you know, you believe you're going to go to market with. But you know, there are certainly competitors that are out there that utilize third parties as their front end to make things a little bit easier from an operational standpoint. But that gives them less flexibility, you know, when there are specific client demands that come across in terms of doing things in a, you know, general practice way.
Gurdon Blackwell [00:16:47]:
So that's one thing. The security around it also gives us, you know, a greater ability to be able to protect the PII, you know, associated with, with our customers. I mean, knock on wood, in Asurint history, there's never been a data breach or anything like that, which, you know, ultimately does happen and you can't blame anybody, but like, that's not something that has happened to us and ultimately is something that we're really proud of in terms of protecting our customer data. I'd also say that again, when I mentioned to you before about where to go to search and the integrations with courthouses, that's not something the courthouse comes to us and says, here you go, that's something we have to go to the courthouse and say, hey, can I build this with you? So it's our investments in terms of being able to go out and again, build these integrations with their systems that are the investments that we're making. Because we know at the end of the day, the byproduct of that is higher quality and again, speed to, you know, getting the data, if it exists in there that I can report back to you. The third part of it is kind of the APIs, right? So the integrations with third party applicant tracking systems you know, there are many out there that service the transportation industry specifically. That's been one of the biggest advantages in terms of our investment is building these integrations with these third party applications so that we can send data back and forth. And ultimately in some cases, you don't even see my platform, right?
Gurdon Blackwell [00:18:05]:
You place the order inside of the applicant tracking system, we ingest it, we communicate with the applicant and get what we need, complete the background check and ultimately just send it back and it's visible inside of the applicant tracking system. So really the only time you're coming to us is you really want to view the report in detail. So that helps also with the speed, you know, being able to look at results of your applicant pool coming back from us directly into your ATS and then being able to say, okay, move this person to hire and getting them onboarded. And then, you know, certainly just continued investment into the organization to innovate from a product standpoint, you know, better reporting mechanisms, you know, things of that nature. But those are probably the three biggest areas of investment that we believe again, we've done the right thing in terms for the output of our customer to really give them, you know, what they need to hire people fast and with a high degree of quality and then also be able to maximize other investments in like these third party applicant tracking systems that they can utilize to share data with us.
Jeremy Reymer [00:19:00]:
It’s a constant evolution, right. Of technology and partnership and growth. And at the end of the day, it's always what is the best experience that can be provided to the end user. The end user be the driver as well as the your paying customer. But also without sacrificing risk, right? Without sacrificing and exposing them unnecessarily. Now for those in the audience, you know, carriers who are saying, what can we do to better scrutinize or vet those who are being considered for roles within our organization.
Jeremy Reymer [00:19:31]:
Any, you know, low hanging fruit, any thoughts that come to mind of like here's a good tip. It's not even necessarily an Asurint related question as much as just what's a, maybe a good suggestion that you might have? How can we better scrutinize or vet those people we're thinking about, especially in the backdrop that we're in today.
Gurdon Blackwell [00:19:50]:
You know, I think from where I sit, right. It's just ensuring, you know, outside of things that you have to do in order to be in compliance with, you know, federal regulations, right? I mean, those are just, you know, non-starters.
Jeremy Reymer [00:20:02]:
Table stakes, right?
Gurdon Blackwell [00:20:03]:
Right, Table stakes. Exactly right. Again, even the background Check in and of itself. I mean, some of the horror stories, you know, in talking to people actually sometimes come into market because from a standpoint of like the criminal background check that we've been speaking about, separate from the things that are, you know, like, again, table stakes and federal requirements and things like drug testing, you'd be surprised that there are still people out there that wouldn't even perform a true background check on somebody, right? So outside of the motor vehicle report, outside of the crash report, right? You know, there are a lot of activities in terms of what a driver can do personally that you want to mitigate against and understand.
Gurdon Blackwell [00:20:41]:
And not to say that everything that somebody does that turned into some kind of conviction is also grounds for not hiring them, right? Because there are certain things that you should take into consideration, like the severity of the crime, the length of the crime in terms of when it was committed versus, you know, the time frame in terms of, you know, where this person is now and how much time has passed, right? Take into consideration, especially with the fact that it's a tight labor market, right? But I would say from the standpoint of what I do, educate yourself as much as possible, right?
Gurdon Blackwell [00:21:10]:
Not all background checks are the same. It's not a one size fits all, you know, type of thing. So you really, you really have to, you know, work with your counterparts inside of your organization, with your safety department, with your HR department, you know, with your labor department. Really understand, like, how much risk is it that we can expose ourselves to and understand, you know, the levers that you can pull in order to be able to, you know, identify what you need to do in order to eliminate, again, like I said, as much as that is possible, listen to people who want to help deliver value, right? So I think for me, that's the biggest thing is I just want to make sure that people really understand the differences in terms of what we do versus somebody else. And if somebody's willing to have that conversation with you, you should really give them a listen, because there's not too many people out there that I think today do that, right?
Gurdon Blackwell [00:21:59]:
They really just want the transaction. They just really want the dollar, you know, in their pocket, right? Type of thing, and just move on. And again, employees are investments, and you have to scrutinize them. And the background check is a really big part of it in terms of the overall investment that you'll make. I mean, generally speaking, again, from a transportation standpoint, it's probably similar to the general market, but it probably costs anywhere from 2000 to $4000 to identifying somebody, to onboarding them, right?
Gurdon Blackwell [00:22:25]:
And the background check, when you look at everything in aggregate, is probably one of the most, least expensive things out of all of that cost and onboarding somebody, right? So, like, make a little bit more of the investment in it because it's really going to pay dividends in terms of making a decision, understanding, you know, whether or not you want this person in a truck or behind, you know, a desk working for you.
Jeremy Reymer [00:22:45]:
I think that's an important point. This is an investment. You're making an investment in this particular candidate. Be consistent with how you approach it. But this is an investment. Everybody wants to make, a wise investment. So I think that's a really good point. And now as we wrap up, I know that you've got your fingers on the pulse of what's going on out there, number of customers that you're working with all the time.
Jeremy Reymer [00:23:04]:
There is a lot of transactions that take place. And I know you're talking to customers, you're visiting prospects and attending events and those sorts of things. What are you seeing and hearing as far as, like, given what we've been enduring the past two and a half years, any sense of improvement? What do you think?
Gurdon Blackwell [00:23:19]:
I think people are not ready to jump out the window as much as they were, you know, a number of years ago. To your point, Jeremy, like, you know, from a standpoint of me measuring my business, right. It is all transactional, even though I don't treat it that way, the support of it. We didn't discuss this earlier, but the other investment is really in my clients, my client success and my client support organization, right? Because, you know, I could probably do 95% of this stuff the right way without problems. But, you know, there's always a piece of data or something that comes up with somebody, that somebody doesn't understand it or how this applies to the regulation, you know, and there's a question that comes into my organization to say, help me. And you know, you also have to be, you know, very astute in terms of having the right subject matter, expertise inside of the organization, you know, that talks the language, right.
Gurdon Blackwell [00:24:03]:
To be able to say, hey, listen, I know what this means and what this, you know, what this ultimately will help you against the regulation in terms of this result. Let us walk through it, right? So I think from that standpoint, that's a, that's a big part of it as well. But again, going back to the point that it's still a transaction, it's still, in order to this point, like coming off of, you know, 2024, moving into 2025. What we do with a lot of our customers is talk to them about, like, hey, what are your expectations for the coming year, you know, when it comes to hiring? Right. Just because I'd like to know, I want to be prepared, you know, if there's going to be, you know, events or if you're going to see scale, if is there any kind of even M and A in your future, right. To say, hey, listen, I'm going to increase my volume because, you know, we're going to be doing this type of thing. That's all stuff that, you know, we really need to know that's going to help us be able to support you, you know, in that coming year in terms of getting an understanding of, like, what you're expecting and not necessarily holding it to you at all, but just saying, hey, this is how you built your plan.
Gurdon Blackwell [00:24:55]:
I know what to expect. You know, we're going to be ready for you. So, again, I think optimistically and having those conversations, the future has been a little bit brighter in terms of people saying, yes, we're expecting an uptick in hiring. We're expecting to bring on more people. We're seeing, you know, the loosening, you know, of pocketbooks in terms of more people wanting to do more stuff. I think there's a sentiment in the economy, generally speaking, you know, that there's more purchasing power, which obviously drives absolutely everything in terms of somebody producing more stuff that has to get on a truck and get driven, you know, across the country to, you know, a destination type of thing. So those compounding effects, you know, at least in some of the conversations that we've had with our clients, is shows a little bit rosier of a picture for 2025.
Jeremy Reymer [00:25:39]:
Well, we can only hope the year's young make it happen. We've been waiting for, you know, two and a half years now. So, Gurdon, thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate your time and I hope to see you at some upcoming industry events.
Gurdon Blackwell [00:25:51]:
We're an organization that ultimately loves to get out there and visit our customers, visit our prospects. You know, we go to a lot of industry events, so hopefully, yes, Jeremy, we will. We'll see you soon. And listen, the pleasure is all mine. Thank you so much for inviting me and giving me an opportunity to speak to your audience again. I hope this was valuable for them and they learned something. If somebody can walk away and say that I did, then that's made the time worth it. So thank you. Thank you all.
Jeremy Reymer [00:26:16]:
Once again, special thanks to the sponsors of the show. We really appreciate you. If you're interested in being a sponsor or joining me for an interview, please email jeremy@takingthehireroad.com. Until next time, thank you for Taking the Hire Road.