Progressively Horrified

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What is Progressively Horrified?

A podcast that holds horror to standards horror never agreed to. Hosts Jeremy Whitley, Ben Kahn, Emily Martin and guests watch, read, listen to, and check out movies, tv shows, comics, books, art and anything else from the horror genre and discuss it through a progressive lens. We'll talk feminism in horror, LGBTQ+ issues and representation in horror, racial and social justice in horror, disability and mental health/illness in horror, and the work of female and POC directors, writers, and creators in horror.
We're the podcast horror never agreed to take part in.

Emily: I like this movie a lot.

Sara: Ain't it great?

Emily: yeah.

Sara: What a banger.

God, this movie is good.

Jeremy: All right.

We don't, we don't have Ben here to

Sara: I know, I, uh, the

Jeremy: minute off track
before we even start.

Sara: Yes, Riverdale,
Riverdale, Riverdale.

Yeah, I know.

Emmanuel: Is that how you summon them?

Sara: I was trying.

Emily: Riverdale, Riverdale.

Not

Sara: shows, CW shows, CW shows.

Jeremy: you, if you do it with
Evangelion, you get Emily.

Emmanuel: Love this.

I love all of this.

Jeremy: Good evening and welcome to
Progressively Horrified, the podcast

where we hold horror to progressive
standards it never agreed to.

It's the first week of Pride and we
are talking about a queer Mexican

horror masterpiece that became
sort of like an indie breakout

in the last couple of years.

It went from like being a thing that I'd
watched and nobody had heard of to being a

thing that like everybody talks about now.

It's Huesera the Bone Woman.

I am your host, Jeremy Whitley,
and with me tonight, I have a

panel of cinephiles and cnobites.

Ben is off tonight, so first,
the cinnamon roll of cnobites,

my co host, Emily Martin.

How are you tonight, Emily?

Emily: I'm feeling spicy.

Got a little bit of a ginger
kick in the cinnamon tonight.

I really love this movie.

feel it.

I love it.

I see it.

I see you.

And RaÃºl is off the Chip scale.

I will not elaborate.

Jeremy: yeah, we will
talk a lot about that.

And we have two great guests tonight,
who are friends of the podcast.

First horror lover and English
educator, Emmanuel Lipscomb.

Emmanuel, welcome back.

Emmanuel: Thanks!

I am so glad to be here.

I really want Valeria's
auntie to be my auntie.

She's incredible.

She just had those people on speed dial.

You need that person in your back pocket.

Jeremy: Listen...

uh, our second guest tonight,
friend of the podcast and writer

of the new narrative fiction
podcast, Medusa Mask, Sara Century.

Sara, welcome back.

Sara: I'm so happy to be back.

Thank you for having me back,
especially to talk about this

movie, which is a banger.

I was gonna say, well, if I'm any
character in this movie, I think

I'm definitely the ex that goes
off and does art and then is just

like, You're too chaotic though,
but I will help You That's, that

Jeremy: the best character
in the history of horror

Sara: good!

And maybe,

Jeremy: great.

Sara: Yeah, she's incredible.

The aunt is like neck and neck.

They're real good characters.

Emily: They would be on my team.

Like, if I had to choose a
team for anything, there's so

much diversity and skill there.

There's creativity.

There's good taste.

Octavia had a Uzumaki
book on her bookshelf.

Emmanuel: She's not worried
about hurting the baby.

Emily: Yeah, she's not worried
about hurting the baby.

because she knows how that
fucking shit works, for starters.

She knows self defense, at
that point, I'm like, yeah,

girl, this is your dream woman.

This is my dream woman.

where's her mountain house?

Sara: not a house yet,
but it will be next year.

Emily: I will

Sara: Yes,

Emily: build her house.

Sara: will help you build your house

Jeremy: Listen, romantically,
romantically, she would have

nothing for me, but I would go
live in the mountains with her.

Like,

Emily: yeah,

Jeremy: a commune, you know?

Emily: I would feel.

Taken care of.

Emmanuel: They'll take care of you.

Emily: yeah, she's definitely got it all.

She's all going on.

Jeremy: by Michelle Garza Severa
written by Michelle Garza Severa

and Abia Castillo And it stars
Natalia SoliÃ¡n, Alfonso Dosal, Mayra

Batalla, and Mercedes HernÃ¡ndez.

And boy, they're all amazing.

Including Alfonso Dosal, who plays
just the fucking worst, dude.

Like, he's

just the

Emmanuel: useless.

Jeremy: I feel like there's going to
be a point in this where I, I reveal

a lot about like what it's like to
be the husband of a pregnant woman.

But we're going to like try to keep

that

Emmanuel: do a corner bit, the

Jeremy: OPG.

Yeah.

it's great.

It is, uh, Mexican, I
think I mentioned before.

so it is on Shudder.

It's in the U S it's a Shudder exclusive.

So if you have Shudder, or I guess AMC+
as we've discovered in the last few

weeks, you can, uh, check it out there.

We are introduced immediately to Valeria.

She is going to visit a giant
statue of the Virgin Mary.

She has to climb all
these stairs to get to it.

She's going with her mom because she
has not had any luck having a baby and

she desperately wants to, or does she?

Like her mom really desperately
wants her to have a baby.

She also seems like she thinks she
should which is sort of going to be a.

a theme throughout this.

So we, we get that image of this
giant statue of the Virgin Mary

that everybody's going up the climb
and people praying over her womb.

And we also get this sort of cross cut
with this image of this burning woman.

Just before we get sort
of the name of the movie.

we go from there to her having sex
with her husband, RaÃºl, in a way

that, uh, is very, like, getting
pregnant based, not getting busy based,

Sara: Yeah, she's checking her

watch

kind of.

Emmanuel: to do list item.

Sara: Yeah.

Emily: yeah, yeah.

Jeremy: she is pointedly
not enjoying herself.

Like, and he's like, Oh, did you?

And she's like, uh huh.

It would clearly like from
her facial expression.

She did not.

Emily: Fully looking, like, out
the window while he was coming.

Like.

Emmanuel: They establish in the first few
minutes that he knows nothing about women.

Like just whatsoever.

Sara: Yeah.

Off the top.

Jeremy: Very very bad at this.

That then leads to her, like,
Lying in bed, holding her legs up,

trying to get everything to go.

Um, And i, I want to say like,
Valeria's got a lot of issues.

She's pretty fucking cool.

Like, she's building a
crib manually herself.

She's doing all the woodwork.

She's doing everything.

She's like lacing up the
sides and everything with this

Sara: likes that she does it.

Everybody is mad that she
does cool carpentry and you're

very

Jeremy: Octavia, which we'll learn

Sara: Except Octavia.

Jeremy: her husband's like, are you
sure you want to keep doing this?

Can you, you have to keep doing this?

oh man, it sucks.

it was, I was watching it and I
was like, oh, this is really cool.

And then everybody else throughout
the movie is like, yeah, okay.

Building a crib, whatever.

Sara: stay home forever?

Jeremy: Yeah.

Don't you think you should stay
home and lie in bed forever?

Sara: Why would you be
depressed about that?

They're all confused.

Jeremy: Yeah.

There's a point, in this
movie, where the doctor,

that she goes to says,
you're just pregnant.

It's fine.

Like that moment.

I wanted to hit a man that was fictional
on the other side of the television.

Like, I was like, what
are you talking about?

Emily: moment where she's in
the gynecologist's office,

like, getting a, you know,

Emmanuel: Ultrasound.

Emily: ultrasound.

Well, there's,

I've never had kids, so I don't
know if But the gynecologist is

a man and her husband is there.

There's no other women in the room at all.

And, I just.

I feel the need to underscore that.

Jeremy: yeah, they're doing an, internal
ultrasound, which is like very early in

the process before they can do the whole
standard ultrasound that they always

show on TV with the goop and the wand.

well, before that, we, we get to her,
uh, lying about quitting smoking.

She's continuing to smoke out the window
despite having told everybody that she's

quitting and just keeps lying about it.

But now she's pregnant.

And as soon as she gets pregnant, she
started seeing giant spiders around

the house foreboding of horrible things
to come This is where, when we are

introduced to her mother in law, who
gives RaÃºl a run for his money on the

worst fucking character in the world.

They do this bit where like, they're
shopping for kid stuff, and she decides

that she wants to buy them a crib,
and Valeria's like, oh, I'm making

a crib, and she's like, well, maybe
I'll just buy it anyway, and RaÃºl's

like, thanks, mom, and Valeria's like,
what the fuck, I said I was making it.

RaÃºl's just like, oh, we'll just have
it when, you know, mom is visiting us,

the rest of the time, we'll use, yours.

He's the fucking worst.

He's the Chippiest of Chips.

He has, he has Chip of
Jennifer's Body beat by a mile.

He's a bad horror boyfriend.

Even before the real horror
starts, he's, He's shitty.

she's also told that, uh, they don't
want her to do carpentry anymore.

They don't want her to use
any of the chemicals that

she uses for building stuff.

She is losing her workshop, the one
place that she has of her own for

this baby to, you know, take over.

I, I believe we see that RaÃºl
still has an office in the house,

but she is losing her workshop.

Emmanuel: Of course.

Sara: He needs to work.

Jeremy: Yeah, despite the
fact that he leaves for work.

Emily: He needs all of that space.

Jeremy: After they, find out that she's
pregnant and they hang out with his mom

for a while, they go visit her family.

Her family also sucks.

Like her mom is almost okay.

Her dad is a little bit just sort
of like, stereotype dad, just very

like masculine, no kind of emotional
support coming from this dude.

And the sister is the fucking worst.

This sister, this sister who lives
with her parents uh, along with her

two kids and continually tells her
sister that like, Oh, you shouldn't

have kids, you're not the kid having
type, you won't be a good mom.

And I will say, living with your
parents, it's fine, people gotta do

it, but like, don't then give shit
to the people who like, are also

trying to do it and struggling to
like get by on their own, just, you

know, fucking chill out or something.

the sister forces them to like,
relive this babysitting story of

the first time that she like, held
the little boy next door and dropped

him and he rolled down the stairs.

And they all have a good laugh
at how this kid is probably uh,

mentally messed up because of her
dropping him on his head as a child.

Sara: They suck.

It's pretty rough.

Emmanuel: just, there's a lot of
like throwaway lines and actions

in the movie that just, oh, okay,
I get it, you suck, like you're

Sara: Yeah.

Emily: And you know, the sister,
that apple doesn't fall far

from the tree, let me say that.

can see that that behavior was learned.

Jeremy: I mean, those apples get
worse with every generation because

their fucking kids suck worse.

They introduce Valeria
popping her knuckles.

She compulsively pops her knuckles to
a point that like seems kind of bad.

People keep stopping her, particularly her
husband, who treats her especially in this

like she is a child that he is in charge
of, who like is doing something bad.

Which, like, this is

Sara: like the vessel for his
baby at this point, right?

That's basically it is the second
they find out that she's pregnant.

It's basically, Oh, I need to make
sure that you're not doing anything

wild because you are holding the
baby that is mine, basically.

And that's kind of how he treats her.

Emmanuel: can't pop her knuckles, can't
have sex, can't smoke, can't woodwork.

It's like, well, what am
I supposed to do here?

Sara: Yeah.

Yep.

Emily: many things I
could say about this guy,

Jeremy: as she gets ready to leave
after having had a terrible night with

her family, we do really get a moment
with the one good member of her family,

one of the best characters, and that's
her, confirmed bachelorette aunt.

She's,

Sara: Yeah.

Jeremy: She's,

Emily: Quote unquote.

Emmanuel: queen shit.

Jeremy: yeah, I will say I don't know
how many people this is true for.

I also have a queer aunt who like,
you know, rocked when I was a kid.

Sara: I am a queer aunt.

Jeremy: yeah, I mean, queer
aunts, they're the fucking best.

So,

Sara: you.

Thank you.

Emily: They sure are.

Absolutely.

Jeremy: She's just like,
don't worry about them.

They fucking suck.

She knows her sister sucks.

She knows her other,
you know, niece sucks.

Sara: Do you believe me?

Of course I do.

There's no question with
her and I love, I love it.

It's great.

Jeremy: I will say my wife commented
on this as we were watching it, but I

was talking about my queer aunt, and
I was like, This aunt has the hookups.

She has, a whole friend group of
witches to help out for any situation.

My aunt not so much with the witches.

Emmanuel: Are you sure?

Have you needed one

Sara: Have you asked?

Emily: you

Jeremy: you know, I haven't,
but that's not really her vibe.

um, and she does live in
Asheville, so they're probably

not more than two steps away.

Emmanuel: Do we think the rest of the
family is aware of Valeria's aunt?

Not in the like sexuality sense, in
the like dabbles in dark magic sense.

Jeremy: I mean, her mom, they say

Sara: to her that much?

Emily: yeah,

Sara: She's there, but they kind of,
they're like, no from what I remember,

I don't remember how active she

Emmanuel: I couldn't

Sara: I know

that she's there.

Jeremy: they treat her with a mad
like Victorian spinster vibes,

like, like she is in the corner of

Sara: be like your aunt.

Yeah.

Don't be spinster like
your aunt or whatever.

Yeah.

Emily: But they do mention the
aunt does mention, you know, don't

tell your mom about any of this.

I feel like the mom probably knows,
considering how a lot of, like,

Catholic regard works for stuff like
that, I'm sure she knows about it,

but she decides to ignore it, because
if she ignores it, it'll go away.

Yeah,

Jeremy: so she nags her about it
and about getting married and the

other, you know, tries to set her
up with a nice man down the street.

That's just sort of the,
the feeling her mom has.

Speaking of nice people down the street
Uh, we run into Octavia, who we are

not told at this point is, her ex
girlfriend, but we will find out later

Sara: And the vibes are there.

Emmanuel: It's going to

say.

Sara: It's so funny how right, literally,
the movie opens pretty much after the

first scene, but they're having, you know,
the, her and her husband are having sex.

And then it's this lady just kind
of runs up to the car and is like,

Hey, haven't seen you around.

Okay, bye.

And it's just like, Whoa,
those two, the chemistry.

Jeremy: When Octavia walks away,
And Valeria is still, like,

smiling, watching her walk away, as

Emily: yeah, yeah.

She's

Jeremy: more, she got more joy
out of that interaction than

having sex with RaÃºl, like,

Emmanuel: Devastating.

Sara: Devastating.

And of course he's like,
she hasn't changed.

Jeremy: yeah, and of course
Valeria's reaction to that

reads, like, she sure hasn't.

Sara: She sure

Emmanuel: But there's, I mean,
there's, also the subtext there, right?

Because we see in the flashbacks
that Valeria is very different.

And so the she hasn't changed
is the implied, but you have,

you're not about that anymore.

Like,

Emily: Yes.

Sara: He feels like he's
won this little game, but oh

no.

Emily: Yeah.

Sara: You silly man.

Jeremy: Yeah, they, they go back to
the house after this RaÃºl, of course,

immediately falls asleep and she is,
up dealing with not being able to sleep

and goes outside to have a smoke and
sees a creepy lady across the street on

the balcony who's just staring at her,
tries to wave at her and she does this

creepy fast moving neck pop thing and
then she climbs over the side of the

balcony and jumps to the ground below,
snapping both of her legs in the process

and like, laying out in the street.

And Valeria, of course, is freaked
the fuck out and she's looking down

to see if this woman is all right.

And then, like, the woman pulls her head
up off of the, ground and starts dragging

herself across to their apartment,
even though, like, bones are actively

sticking out of both of her legs.

Emily: Fractures are compound.

She's And she has no face!

Jeremy: she has no face.

She is having a bad time.

she runs to go get RaÃºl
to show him this woman.

Of course, she's not there.

Of course, RaÃºl is, like, A-number-one
horror movie boyfriend and is

like, uh, you're probably fucking
crazy because you're pregnant.

You should go to bed.

Sara: It's just all that pregnancy.

Emily: Yeah,

Jeremy: that pregnancy

Emily: women, what's going on with them?

Jeremy: having hysteria, darling.

Emily: Gotta find a doctor to get you off.

Emmanuel: Octavia?

Emily: Yeah, is she a doctor?

Probably, probably amongst,
she probably has a PhD

Sara: in something.

Emily: Yeah,

Sara: And I can guess what?

But that's another podcast.

Emily: she's an interior decorator.

Emmanuel: Is that what they call

Emily: a lot of carpeting.

Sara: Yeah.

Jeremy: so yeah, things are really just
getting worse for Valeria at this point.

She is pretending to eat, because
she is being fed like she's a child.

She, uh, is extremely horny because I, I
know like nobody on this podcast has been

horny, alright, but nobody on this podcast

Emmanuel: Excuse me?

Emily: Oh, called out.

Yeah,

no, it's

Sara: to disagree.

Jeremy: nobody on this podcast
has been pregnant, but like.

It wreaks fucking chaos on your hormones
having experienced it secondhand.

I'm sure Emmanuel can
attest to this as well.

There are definitely like times,
especially in that first, trimester

where it was just like, Going
between horny and sad and angry

and sometimes all three at the

Sara: All three at once!

Emmanuel: forget hungry and nauseous.

Those are the four experiences.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: Yeah,

Emily: the four nations of pregnancy.

They used to live in harmony

Jeremy: until horny attacked.

Emily: until, until a baby attacked.

Jeremy: Yeah, um, they are making out
and she is, despite seeming to not get

the same amount of it from it as, uh,
he is, she is desperate, to get laid,

and he is like, but we don't want to

Sara: gross.

Yeah.

Emmanuel: like can't get it up.

Like he is so nervous
that like can't perform.

Jeremy: And

Emily: And she's like putting
him in a headlock and shit.

And I'm like, get it.

Sara: This man is weak.

He will not survive the winter.

You must go.

Emily: Yeah.

That's

Jeremy: what really kills me about
this scene is when he's like,

Oh, we're going to hurt the baby.

And she's like, there's not a baby
there yet, because they're like

Sara: And he's like, yeah,

Jeremy: in.

And he's like, yes, there is.

Haha.

Silly, dumb

Emmanuel: But that's the thing is
like we don't see him on websites.

We don't see him reading books.

No,

this is what to expect
when you're expecting.

It's very much no, there's
a baby in there now.

I know it

Emily: Yeah.

Cause I think that
there's a baby in there.

Emmanuel: Also the confidence
thinking you could hurt the baby.

Like, sir.

Brigante.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Emily: Maybe that was him on, like,
Yahoo Answers or whatever that was.

am I pregonate?

Will it hurt baby?

Top of its head.

Jeremy: Oh God.

Sara: This man.

Jeremy: yeah.

Emily: was him.

That was one of his questions.

Jeremy: This is a hundred
percent that dude.

Yes.

Sara: will have sex
with his pregnant wife,

Emily: Oh

Emmanuel: Repeatedly.

Sara: Yeah, no problem.

Jeremy: Somebody is knocking at
the door, but it's not that door.

uh, in the middle of the night,
there is, there's knocking,

there's buzzing from the door.

There's somebody desperately
wanting to get in.

He doesn't hear it at all.

He doesn't stir at all.

She goes to answer the door
and there's, nobody out there.

she thinks she sees something out there.

So she opens the door to check it
and starts to creep down the stairs.

And we see in one of the creepiest bits
here, out of the shadows comes crawling

the Bone Woman into the apartment
behind her and shut, slams the door.

So she of course freaks out starts banging
on the door and ringing the doorbell.

RaÃºl answers the door and treats her like
she is out of her mind for having stepped

out of the room and the door closing.

She is sure that somebody broke
into the house and closed the door,

which of course we know they did.

He is not willing to hear any of this
because he's a fucking horrible person.

he sucks so bad to the point that
like, he may actually be in danger at

this point, as far as we know, but is
still so busy sucking that he cannot

put that aside for his own well being.

I Just have written here,
RaÃºl is the biggest Chip.

he's just god awful.

But who isn't awful is Gay Auntie.

She is here to help.

They're gonna go see her witch
buddies, who are, I guess, what look

like mall witches or plaza witches.

They are, you know, they have a
stall set up in, the local plaza.

Emmanuel: I want a TV series about their

Sara: I know!

Emmanuel: at the shops and like
solve dark magic things for people.

Sara: Subscribed.

Jeremy: I would watch that.

Sara: Yeah,

Jeremy: Yeah, they're great.

they Have a creepy little
girl with them who, uh,

Sara: got to

Jeremy: one of the aunts

Emmanuel: Standard.

Jeremy: like very clearly this little
girl looks at her and is like, oh

shit, something's wrong with this lady.

and then whispers to one of the
witches about it and the witch is like,

you gotta do something about this.

And she says that she is being haunted
by the Weaver this sort of spider, who is

both a mother and a creditor, who makes
a house that is also a prison uh, which

is like, very on the nose, So she does
some, uh, some magic, tells her, you know,

all right, this should take care of it.

But if it doesn't come back and
see me, we can do some other shit.

But like, it's dark shit.

You might not want to do that.

if it's an emergency, we do
have some real dark shit.

We get into,

Emily: Yeah.

Dungeon Meshi black magic

Sara: Keep it in your
back pocket, you know?

If worse comes to worst.

Jeremy: she's got some serious shit.

some nighttime magic she can do.

Emmanuel: These all sound like euphemisms.

Jeremy: yeah.

But Val does start to improve.

She finishes the crib.

Then she has the freakiest fucking
dream of that bone woman, like,

crawling across the floor and
reaching up and snapping her foot.

And, uh, she wakes up freaking
out about it, and, of course, RaÃºl

is like, Oh, it's just a fucking
cramp, what's wrong with you?

Uh, you're the fucking worst for having
cramps and shit while you're pregnant.

Emmanuel: He has not rubbed
this woman's feet, not

Sara: I mean,

Emmanuel: hasn't gotten her a snack.

Like, I

Jeremy: He's like, put it in
the hot one, then the cold one,

Emily: Yeah.

Sara: I bet he also is
like, yeah, we're expecting.

Emily: Yes.

Sara: the way that this guy is.

Emily: Big we're expecting energy.

Sara: this guy.

Emily: F ing stolen

valor.

Jeremy: pregnant.

Emmanuel: don't know how she doesn't look
at him and be like, these are the genes

I'm like carrying forth into the future.

Like, I, I reproduce with this guy.

Like,

Sara: Yeah, I think it's just the
fact that everywhere she goes,

people are horrified by her.

But

What is

Emmanuel: done that's so great?

Like, and she

Emily: I have a theory about this.

He is the only dude she could find That
would let her put him in a headlock

and well, they had sex and then all
of her family members are like, we're

so happy that you found the right guy.

you know, and everybody welcomes
her back in with open arms

Emmanuel: waggles her eyebrows

Jeremy: I feel like

my theory, and I feel like your theory
about this, I feel like it's backed up by

what we see immediately after this, which
is like, she's finally taking a bath.

She sticks her head under the water
after like popping a bunch of her

bones like the the bone woman is doing.

Sticks her head under the
water and has a flashback.

And we get to see what
she was like before this.

she

Sara: She's

Jeremy: a punk and she was
like hanging out with Octavia.

They were like fucking wild queer kids
running around all over the place.

And then her, her brother died and she
decided that like, Since her brother

had been so important and her parents
have been so proud of her brother

going to college that she was going
to do that now to like make it up to

her parents that her brother was dead
and to try and like be a good kid.

They never like, say this out-and-out,
but like, has constructed this like,

heteronormative, basic ass life for her
parents who are still shitty to her, and

like, she's not enjoying it, she does
not like this dude, he just seems to have

been the guy that was available at the

Sara: That's it.

I think he just hung out the whole time.

I think every time he would see
her with Octavia, they probably

knew each other casually and he
just kept showing up and therefore,

Emmanuel: I heard that described as
trying to sideload a relationship.

You just hang on until you're like,
yeah, we're, we're together, right?

Like,

Sara: yeah, a hundred percent.

I would not put it past this man.

Jeremy: and Octavia in the past,
Has the longest fucking hair.

She has huge hair,

Sara: Great hair,

Jeremy: and is, just as, if
not more awesome, or probably

more awesome than she is.

so she, She gets done with this flashback
and of course she's been left in this

house all alone by herself to just sit.

So she decides, I'm gonna go
look up my girl, my ex girlfriend

and boy does she look her up.

Emmanuel: And down,

Jeremy: such a huge.

There is such a huge contrast to like,
the way this relationship works, the

chemistry between the two of them, and
her and RaÃºl that like, fuckin Octavia,

despite them not actively dating at this
point is, interested in her and is asking

her questions about her fucking furniture.

Like she's, she wants to know about like
what she's doing and her hobbies and

the shit that she knows she cares about.

Whereas like, I don't think RaÃºl has
asked her one question that isn't about

having a baby in this movie at this point.

Sara: He doesn't

care,

Emmanuel: worst.

Emily: yeah.

he's absolutely like, I, she does her
thing and I do my thing and, you know,

we get to have sex so it's a relationship

Sara: but she gives up

everything

Jeremy: like she does
whatever it is that women do,

Sara: yeah,

Emily: yeah, yeah, yeah, that's,
and that's a big mood with him and

her dad too it's definitely a theme.

Jeremy: Yeah, I mean I do wonder with
her dad whether that's not more of

like a time appropriate thing, whereas,
you know, when he was their age, it

was like, it was expected that, you
know, he goes to work during the day

and his wife stays home, and like,
that's just sort of how shit was.

The traditional masculinity,

Emily: Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, Raul definitely has that.

Jeremy: except he fucking doesn't, except
for like, he doesn't back that shit up.

We don't actually know what he does.

It's something to do with like, art or
bands or like he's a manager of some

sort but like he also we've learned
this apartment that they live in is

owned by his his mother so like, he
doesn't actually provide anything.

Sara: Yeah, isn't it that the men in
these, in this movie, it's him and her

dad basically are the characters, right?

And they're both kind of ciphers.

They both kind of rely so heavily
on the women around them that

their responses are so, are very
limited to pretty much everything.

Like he's, you're, you carry the baby.

And my mom wants a baby.

Everybody expects us to have a baby.

And that's basically his investment,
whereas the other, the dad is

just kind of checked out, it
seems like, through everything.

Emily: Oh, yeah, he's, he
is surrounded by women.

Jeremy: the dad has a football
match starting in 20 minutes

that he really wants to see.

Like, that's kind of, that's
his, like, his attitude he's had

throughout the whole movie is like,
Real Madrid is on in 20 minutes, so.

Emily: Yeah.

He's very much the traditional
kind of older gentleman his

version of feminism and enabling
women is not getting in their way.

But also being like absentee,
really, because he's like, well,

they're in charge of everything and
I'm just going to do what they say.

And, I'll do, I'll say man
things and do, quote, unquote.

Man things which I think is what RaÃºl
thinks he's doing, but he's doing like.

Soft boy version, but even worse,
especially with that fucking,

like, meditation thing, like.

He won't rub her feet, but then he'll
be like, let's do some meditation

where we hold each other, and I
hold you, and you hold me, and we

Emmanuel: don't know any pregnant
woman that wants to be touched like

Emily: Yeah.

Emmanuel: Not on their terms.

Like I just, it's hot.

I'm uncomfortable.

I think

rub my feet, give me a snack.

But like, I don't want to cuddle while you

meditate me.

What are we doing

Jeremy: he wants to be part of
being pregnant, but he does not

want to serve her in any way.

Emmanuel: Like,

you said, it's all for the baby.

It's not providing pleasure to Valeria.

It is what can I do that contributes
to making a safe vessel for the baby?

Emily: Yeah.

Her personhood is
completely out the window.

And she is just the, inconvenient vessel
at this point, like, her mood swings

and her, struggles and everything.

Jeremy: yeah.

No, I mean like, both times my wife
has been pregnant, it is a constant

horror movie, where it's just like,
Every, every week, sometimes every day,

there's just like, oh, there's this
new horrible thing that happens now.

And I just have to deal
with that every day.

Because I remember like this really,
this really occurring to me, like the

first time that she was pregnant with our
oldest, and like, her hip just started

popping out of joint occasionally.

And it was just like,

Emmanuel: Unsubscribe.

Sara: Yeah.

Jeremy: Yeah.

I just have to like, grab her hips and
like push together because it's just like

Emmanuel: They don't tell you that
in the baby books, by the way.

I read them.

Like,

Emily: They don't.

Jeremy: yeah.

I mean, you gotta like,
find the right things.

Cause once you look it
up, they're like, Oh yeah.

Like part of being pregnant is that
your body releases these hormones

that make all that muscle down
there just sort of more stretchy.

So sometimes It just does that.

Sometimes your

Emmanuel: wife had a ACL repair
prior to getting pregnant and her ACL

loosened back up once she was pregnant.

That's a thing that can happen.

Like,

Emily: Yeah, I mean, your,
your abs, you know how you

have abs and they're together?

Jeremy: theoretically.

Emily: That are theoretically,
like, I mean, they're in

there, If you can, like, do, I'm
doing a thing where I'm rocking

back and forth, actually, that
could be hips, who knows abs,

Jeremy: Who knows?

Who

could possibly tell?

Emily: but

RaÃºl doesn't.

I actually do know because I've
studied anatomy and I, and, and

martial arts, but, like, when you're
pregnant, Your abs split apart.

And then, when you are done, you
gotta wait for him to zip back up.

Sara: I

If any of this happened,
RaÃºl would call his mom

Emily: yeah,

Sara: and just be like, Mom, can
you come over and deal with this?

Emmanuel: Her abs are doing
that thing again, Mom,

Jeremy: Mom,

Mom, she

won't stop.

Emily: she won't stop, her
body won't stop doing things.

I thought it was like, you're
big and then you're small again.

And

Jeremy: She won't, she hasn't
pooped the baby out yet.

You know, who does know a lot
of things about women's bodies?

Octavia.

Emily: Octaviaaaa

Sara: I

notes, yeah.

Jeremy: Uh, after sharing her, continued
dream of moving off to the mountains,

uh, and getting away from all this shit,
they have incredibly passionate sex.

this is filmed in a very different
way than, especially the sex scene

with RaÃºl earlier, but a different
way than we've seen basically anything

in this movie filmed to this point.

That is, I mean, this is pretty
clearly, the happiest she has

been throughout this film.

Um,

Sara: are plot relevant sex scenes.

Both of them are incredibly plot relevant.

I just always crack up about that,
but I was, while I was watching

this, I was, oh, plot relevance!

Because we have to know where
she's at, and we do, just through

these two sex scenes, and the vast
difference between the two of them.

Emily: yes,

Jeremy: demonstrated both.

in the sex, but also in the conversation
beforehand, how much Octavia cares

about her and like, there for her.

His extent of caring for her like, Oh, did
you come also when she clearly didn't, but

Emmanuel: foot in the hot water,
then put your foot in the cold

water, I'll be back from work later.

Yeah,

Jeremy: on in, one of the more horrifying
bits of this movie, he'll be like,

Oh, everything has been horrible.

I don't know if I should
leave you here with the baby.

Also, I do have to go to work.

Bye.

Uh, I will not see you until another day.

He is, God, he's the worst.

Sara: slow motion head shake
for anybody who can't see with

what's happening over here.

Emily: yeah,

Jeremy: Yeah

Emily: I'm just disappointed.

Jeremy: she comes back late from
that visit and we transition from her

happiest to probably her most miserable.

She is babysitting for her sister.

Her sister is, she's
never done this before.

Her sister seems to not
trust her with her kids.

Sara: No guidance whatsoever.

Jeremy: Yeah, no, no guidance other than
don't let them watch TV, no indication

of what it is they are supposed to
be doing, or how she is supposed to

keep them from watching TV meanwhile
also the dog is going fucking nuts at

this house, it's barking at something,
somewhere that she cannot see uh,

and is, is out of his fucking mind.

On top of this, the kids are absolute
dicks because of course the first thing

that the mom says is like don't let
them watch tv and then it very quickly

transitions to she's letting them watch
tv and then like the parents call from

wherever they're at And she's like,
cool aunt, like, hey, turn that down.

So your mom doesn't
know you're watching TV.

And this little shit head turns it up.

Emily: yeah,

Jeremy: I was

Emmanuel: we're co conspirators,
and you're gonna rap?

Jeremy: I would punch this child.

like he's the worst.

And meanwhile, the girl has also like.

Pooped in a toilet with no water
and is now, you know, carrying a

bucket of water around the house.

Spills it seemingly intentionally
on the floor and then does

nothing to clean it up.

And then just goes to hang
out with her shitty brother.

Valeria is losing it.

She's, popping her fingers again, and
like, we see one of her fingers seem

to entirely break which was one of
the bigger jumps in this movie for me.

Cause like, there's some scary
bits in this movie, but I was not

expecting her finger to just snap
like that, and I was like, GAH!

Oh, and then of course, like, she
is, okay, maybe it didn't happen.

But also, like, The light comes on
outside and the Bone Woman is out there,

she sees the door open, Bone Woman is
getting in the house somehow, so she

grabs the kids and pulls them upstairs,
the kids are being assholes and fighting

her about going anywhere, despite the
fact that she is clearly freaking out.

You know, one of the kids arms gets
scratched, the other one hurts his ankle.

She hears movement outside, the dog is
still barking, and they hear, like, a

snap, and the dog stops barking she calls
the Neighborhood Watch from the little

fob that her parents had left with her.

The Neighborhood Watch guys Seem
like some fucking serious badasses.

Those guys, those guys look like they
have seen the inside of a prison cell.

Sara: And they understand they go,
Oh, well, she's had a big scare.

They're more sympathetic by
miles than anybody else's.

Emily: yeah, they're like, we're
glad that she called us because if

she felt like she was in danger,
also, like, they think that the dog.

Kind of corroded itself
on the chain, which.

I mean, that dog was like, all
night going nuts with that chain.

So, like.

Like, obviously there might have been
someone there, but like, the fact

that the parents are just like, no,
you fucked up because you were afraid

for the lives of these children,

Jeremy: yeah.

The sister's even shittier about it.

The sister's like, people
like you shouldn't have

Sara: Yeah, she's flying
into homophobia here.

It's like very, very homophobia adjacent
to say some stuff like that to somebody

who you know is queer and probably mad at.

Jeremy: Yeah.

And Valeria finally tells her off.

She's just like, you want to tell me about
what I should and shouldn't be doing?

Who should and shouldn't be a kid?

And you're just fucking living with our
parents as an adult with your two kids.

So Yeah, so that, uh, that
relationship's pretty much done.

which is fine because she sucks.

Sara: Get her out of here.

Jeremy: I feel like the, the Neighborhood
Watch guys represent almost like

a sort of like legit masculinity,
like, that these guys are like.

No, like, the woman felt like she was in
danger, so she called the guys who were

supposed to protect her, and we came,
like, don't fucking tell that she's crazy

for that, like, that's what we're here for

Emily: And those guys, you

know, those guys were waiting.

All night for something to go on too.

Emmanuel: Right.

Well, and also, they have the community
watch, and so stuff probably does happen.

They're like, yeah, false alarms are fine.

We would rather come and not be
needed than not come and be needed.

Emily: Yeah.

that's what they're dedicated to.

Sara: When the, the witches, uh, sitcom
takes off with the aunt's friends, then

those guys get to be on that sitcom.

The sister does not.

Emily: Can you imagine like, the, ex-con
jail guys, coming around to protect

the witches from bigots and stuff?

Sara: Yeah.

Yeah.

This show.

Emily: yeah,

Emmanuel: It's giving, like, Gideon
the Ninth, like, the steel against

steel and the magic against magic.

Like,

Sara: Yes.

Yes.

Emily: Speaking of, that's a good
recommendation too, for real.

Jeremy: so she leaves the house,
tells her parents that she's going

home, calls RaÃºl and tells him that
she's staying at her parents, and

instead goes to Octavia's house.

She's had a nice, night of contrast
to show her where she wants to be.

So she, she runs to Octavia for comfort.

We learn later that RaÃºl knows uh, where
she went, they're getting ready to have

some of his, friends over, and he brings
this up to her that, she was with Octavia,

like, she is a child who is in trouble,
for doing a bad thing which if I didn't

already hate this dude, I would now.

And his friends.

What, can we say about his friends?

Emily: uh, They are very

Emmanuel: condescending.

Jeremy: Would you say you've
met some people like this before

in, in the art world, Emily?

I feel like going back to our Velvet
Buzzsaw episode, these guys feel

Emmanuel: Oh, yeah.

Jeremy: right out of Velvet Buzzsaw.

Emily: my god, oh my god, yeah, like,
in terms of the shitty people that

can pop up in a life, you know, these
people's lives, you have the cool art

people and then you have the shitty
art people who are, obviously well off.

They love their experimental
jazz, but they don't know why.

They just know that that's
important to like, obviously.

Nothing against experimental jazz.

I've, I listen to noise music.

Let's be real.

But you can definitely tell when
somebody listens to experimental

jazz music because they think they're
supposed to be and those are those

people.

Jeremy: over dinner.

Emily: Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm like, you play the experimental jazz
music while you're drinking, maybe like

smoking some experimental jazz cigarettes.

Jeremy: The soundscapes of both
this and the babysitting scene

are fucking extraordinary in how
much they've played on my nerves.

Like, in both of these, I'm
like, Yeah, I'm with her, I

want to set shit on fire too.

Emily: Yeah.

Sara: Yeah.

they act around her as if she is
completely untrustworthy and weird.

And so you get that RaÃºl has been
feeding them a narrative already, right?

And so there's, all of these moments
where she like slams her plate

for because she's like stabbing
at what she thinks is a spider.

I don't know if the spider's
there or not, but who cares?

She's stabbing at it.

And everybody just kind of
goes silent and stares at her.

And when people do stuff like that and
they treat you like you're about to

flip out, like who doesn't want to start
being like, let me flip this table.

Emily: yeah,

Sara: People are walking
on eggshells around you and

you're like, you don't know me.

What are you doing?

I, I've.

Felt angry for her in many scenes in this
movie, but especially right here, I think.

Emily: This is a big theme of the movie,
too, about the kind of things that

are projected onto you culturally, and
then, like, the kind of things that,

you know, that just drive you nuts.

Like, people are afraid you're gonna
go ape shit, you know, it's the

whole question, the eternal question,
don't you just want to go ape shit?

And you gotta be able to go ape
shit sometimes, especially when

your, body is being, like, changed.

Sara: None of this is in RaÃºl's
schedule though, so could you wrap

Emmanuel: Well, and also, we don't
see her having any kind of friend

that can, like, be on her side.

Like, you would expect the mom to do it.

She doesn't.

RaÃºl to do it.

He doesn't.

Jeremy: And she's had to leave
behind her whole friend group.

Emmanuel: And

the only friend we see here
is Octavia, like, yeah.

And so there's no one in her corner,
no one that she can kind of like, I

know, right, with, but it's, everyone is

against her and she's just
sort of on her lonesome, like.

Emily: it's just auntie and she's sort
of like, you can see that there's a

conflict where she's like, I, committed
to this life of being domestic,

whereas, Before, like when she was
in high school and before college and

everything, she was running around
saying, I won't be domesticated.

And, the, conflict.

That she feels with that, and
the fact that she doesn't want

to reach out to Octavia about it.

She wants to seem independent to Octavia.

She doesn't want to have to rely
on somebody else either because she

still has that, soul of somebody
who wants to be their own person.

And defined as their own person
rather than the carrier of a child.

Emmanuel: Well, it'd be embarrassing
to admit to Octavia, someone that

you love and idolize, that you came,
became exactly what you said you

wouldn't, and that you left behind
this passionate life of creativity

and music and deep friendships for
something you don't even really want and

something you're not being supported in.

Emily: yeah, and she says
that Octavia fully says that.

Jeremy: so she finally, between the
experimental jazz, the shitty friends,

and the uh, the spiders that may or may
not be there, finally decides that she

needs to have a cigarette, so sneaks
off to the baby's room to smoke out

the window, and as she is doing so.

Uh, Sees the bone woman is in the
room with her and the bone woman

reaches up and snaps the crib.

She screams and runs out to
tell RaÃºl what's happening.

RaÃºl keeps trying to push past her
to get in the room and she does

not want RaÃºl to go in the room.

When he finally busts it open,
the fucking crib is on fire.

Emily: Which is the second
saddest death in the movie.

The dog, and that handmade crib that she
made with her cute ass little mobiles,

her little geometric animals and stuff.

Jeremy: yeah, hand, hand cut,

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: RaÃºl ends up uh, really sure
that she has gone full yellow wallpaper

at this point and, uh, decides that the
mom needs to come over and stay with

her while he is out doing other stuff.

And the mom decides to comfort her
by reading her a book about how,

like, she's basically just giving up
her whole life to be this kid's mom.

Which, I guess the mother
in law finds comforting?

I'm not sure, but it definitely,
uh, hits, Val the wrong way.

She decides that she needs to
go find Octavia ends up having

to go, to the club to find her.

And Octavia at this point is like,
what the fuck are we doing here?

Like, yeah, I love you, but like, you just
kind of show up when you're stressed out

about but like, I can't keep doing this.

Emily: it's not fair to Octavia.

Yeah,

Sara: she says, I think I want to be with
you, and she goes, you think you want to

be with me, or you want to be with me?

Can we get this figured out?

Yeah.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: Val, of course, doesn't take
that well and proceeds to go downstairs

and, go into labor in the mosh pit.

Um,

Sara: Which rules, kind
of, in a weird way.

Emily: I mean, if there was a place
that I would want to go into labor,

Sara: It's just driving home the symbology
of this whole story is going, yeah, now

go to the pug show and have your baby.

Yeah.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: Yeah, I had my
baby in the mosh pit.

Somebody gets Val to the
hospital to give birth.

Emily: She is the one who finds Val in
the, in the mosh pit and pulls her out of

Jeremy: Yeah, everybody else is
watching her go into labor on the floor.

Emily: Well, they're all
probably stoned as hell

Jeremy: they're just like, this
is really fucking metal, man.

Emmanuel: Wow, she's
really into this music.

Emily: Yeah.

Bye.

Jeremy: yeah, this is, I feel like an
interesting inflection point for this

movie, because I feel like there's
a lot of like, pregnancy as monster,

pregnancy as horror movies, and the
fact that like, The baby first of all

isn't a monster, but that the horror
doesn't abate, it doesn't go away

when she has the baby, is important.

Because I feel like that
is pretty fucking real.

Of like, those couple weeks after you have
the baby are not suddenly stress free,

they're the other way around, because
babies fucking don't care about your

schedule, babies don't care about shit.

Babies are sociopaths, like, for
the first, you know, several years.

Emily: they're not like fully, like,
especially right after the birth.

They're not sentient.

Like, you have a helpless animal
that's going to, it's like a Pokemon

that this is my, I've definitely never
been pregnant, but, um, it's like a

Pokemon that will evolve into a guy.

Emmanuel: Say, it's, it's like a pure
id monster, like, it's nothing but

desires and needs and wants.

There is no consciousness,
like, well, okay,

mom's had a hard day, let
me, like, chill on the crime.

Like, no, it's just, like,

fucking now,

Jeremy: it's just a Magikarp
with no chill, you know,

it's got no skills.

It just flops.

And

Emily: know, I'm wrong, it's a Digimon.

Cause those baby Digimons, those
things are just little terror monsters.

Jeremy: yeah, I mean, and Val is having
like a hard time bonding with the baby.

She's, you know, going through serious
depression, along with just the stress

and the lack of sleep and everything.

She has this conversation with
RaÃºl where RaÃºl's like clearly

I can't leave you with the baby.

The baby isn't safe with you But I need to
go and then like asks her can I go and of

course she's not like No, I can't handle
this because like she can't say that

Val doesn't feel like she can admit that
she is not She's not chill with this baby.

Emily: Yeah.

Sara: He'd be the worst
about it, too, to be fair.

I think she's anticipating his reaction
as well, and being, I'm not gonna say

anything.

Emily: waiting to say, I told you so, to

Sara: Yeah, they're gonna
put me in a damn institution.

There's that part where he's
talking to his mom, I believe,

about institutionalizing

Emmanuel: mhm.

Sara: her,

Emmanuel: The mom that's like, smoking

in the house, like,

Sara: Jesus, very intense.

Yeah.

Jeremy: her while they're
telling her not to smoke

Sara: Yeah.

Jeremy: This is maybe, I think, the most
outright terrifying scene of the movie

because the way that it is shot, we see
her lying in bed, next to the baby monitor

and we can see the baby on the baby
monitor and we can hear the baby crying

and this is the first time we actually
see Val as the bone woman she is trying

to lay down and trying to sleep and we
see her start like Popping her neck and,

changing shape, her shoulders doing this
weird thing that the bone woman does

and she gets out of bed and we don't
see her in the baby's room, but we see

multiple hands reach into the baby's crib.

and pull the baby out and then we stop
hearing the crying and then Val comes back

and lays down and goes to sleep and I this
is this is where I was watching this movie

where I was like I might have to be out.

I might, I

Emily: Yeah, no,

Jeremy: this one.

Emmanuel: Jeremy, did you ever
experience what Valeria experienced?

Where like, you couldn't find a baby?

Like, does this ever happen to you?

Like,

Jeremy: not to that extent, this movie
reminded me a lot of the Babadook in

a lot of ways, and I have been in that
situation in, that she is in, in the

Babadook, where you're not sure if you're
awake or asleep, and you think you're

awake and you do things and then you
wake up and like you're in a different

position than you remember being.

that level of like insomnia that she deals
with and that like that hit home for me.

I haven't been in this particular
situation where she like, she wakes

up and she can't hear the baby.

She sees the baby's
not on the baby monitor

Emmanuel: One of the first
times we traveled with my son.

We like, took a pack and play.

You know what a pack and play is?

It's basically like, a playpen that
has a platform that the baby sleeps on.

We pack it all up, we set it
up in a hotel, we go to sleep.

In the middle of the night, we hear a
noise, we flick on all the lights, the

baby is crying, and we can't find him.

He's not in the pack and play.

We spend like, it felt like
eternity, but it was probably like

60 seconds total looking for him.

We had forgotten the like, I don't
know, netting or whatever that goes with

a pack and play that holds the sleep
platform in place, and it had tipped

and he'd fallen inside of it, which is
Really disorienting at 2 in the morning.

You can hear your baby
crying but cannot find him.

Like, he's like, clearly within
feet of you, but like, it is, to

this day, the most horrifying and
disorienting thing that has happened

in like, fatherhood was like, The
baby's gone but I can hear the baby.

Where is the baby?

Like,

Emily: That sounds terrifying, like, it
sounds surreal as fuck, and like, I can

imagine Yeah.

Emmanuel: like, it's, oh,

it was the worst.

Emily: Dissociation time fully.

Emmanuel: particular part where the
waking up and like the where is it?

Oh, oh, it's

not a good feeling

Sara: the way they shoot
this is out of control.

Good.

I love the ambiguity of this scene.

This is really good.

They hold you in suspense
and it's, they drag it out.

They

Emmanuel: That open window
or whatever, with like

Sara: Oh God, it's brutal.

It's

Jeremy: sees the open window and she,
like, before she can even look, she's

like, oh, shit, I've killed the child.

Like, I put the child out
the window, the child's dead.

And, like, you know, grabs her
face and goes to look and doesn't

see the baby and then standing
there, she can hear the baby.

Eh, Mike.

She goes into the kitchen looking
for it and finds that she has put

the baby in the refrigerator, which
like, is almost worst case scenario,

like, you know, it's very close to

like,

Emmanuel: great.

Jeremy: I hadn't found this baby now,
there might not be a baby anymore.

Like, it's, it's almost
as bad as it could be.

she collapses and cries on the floor
and is, is, is in full on meltdown mode.

So, as you might imagine, she decides
it's time to go see the witches again.

And of course, of course,
fucking Octavia is ride or die.

She is there to drive

Sara: you a ride.

Jeremy: She's there to give her
a ride to go see the witches.

And like, this, she, you know,
she goes with her aunt and Octavia

and everybody goes to see them.

And the, the moment where like, she
is like, telling Octavia like, I'm

sorry, like this is all so fucked
up, there's no, you shouldn't be

here, you are too good to me, you
shouldn't be treating me like this.

And Octavia's like, stop fucking
apologizing for everything.

It's like, that got me right here.

Sara: yeah,

Huh?

Emily: yeah.

Oh,

Sara: Octavia's the best.

I, there's another thing that she says
here that I think is crucial, which is

that this isn't about RaÃºl, and it's not
about you, and she's saying that as, I'm

not, I want you to not be hurt by this,
but it's a very interesting thing to say,

because it means, yeah, this is about her,
and that's what I love about this movie.

It really is all about her.

She has these love interests,
but It's really about her.

It's her story, what she decides to do.

None of the rest of it
is the center focus.

Jeremy: Yeah,

Emily: feels like it it's an interesting
the way that the movie, you could

feel her resisting the pull of things
not being about what she wants.

And, the way we're saying, it may
strike as like self-centered, but

it's not, that's not the point.

The point is.

That she is losing her status as a person.

Like I said, many times haven't
been pregnant, but I am a familiar

with the cultural connotation.

the other side of that, is, when
are you going to be pregnant?

When are you going to pop one out?

and all of this, all of these factors
pushing on her, this house that's a

prison, this mother that's a predator,
these ideas pushing on her, trying to

force her, break her into a, particular
shape that she is not, Ready or willing

to be, no one's given her a choice.

and once in.

She makes a choice that she thinks
everybody wants her to make and

then it's still the wrong choice.

Jeremy: and none of those people
that she's trying to do this for

are there to help her, you know,

Emmanuel: Or appreciate any
choice she could possibly make.

Like,

Emily: yeah, Like,

nothing.

Emmanuel: moot.

Emily: Yeah, and the scatterbrained
way of trying to focus on one thing

I can really identify with, and the
way that that is depicted in this

movie with, her just kind of gritting
her teeth through this and just still

trying to focus on her own health.

but that also being, hijacked by,
even her taking care of herself

is not her taking care of herself.

It's taking care of the baby,

Jeremy: yeah,

yeah And I mean this Octavia in the scene
as I was saying like she drops that like

stop apologizing for everything and like
they linger on her for a minute as as

Val gets out of the car and we get sort
of this like she's so fucking rad as

a character, like, she's there for her
despite at this point having no reason

to be, um, you know, she's supporting
this, woman that she loves regardless

of how sort of fucked all of this stuff
is, because she needs somebody, she's

there in a way that RaÃºl isn't ever.

So they, uh, she goes in to see the
witches, there's a lot of uh, sage being

batted around and some fires being lit.

And, they show her the baby's blanket and
they're like, Hey, where you're going,

when you're in, where you're going,
remember that this blanket is your baby.

this represents your baby, whatever
happens to the blanket, like

that's what you need to remember.

So she, she goes into this Hallucination,
dream, whatever it is where she is,

in this sort of forest and there's all
these figures like the Bone Woman, these

faceless people with weird contortionist
shit going on, and they basically mug

her and beat the shit out of her and then
take this baby blanket away from her.

And she sees that the blanket basically
turned into a long dress and that the,

you know, person wearing it turns around
and it's her and she catches on fire, and

Emmanuel: is a callback
to the original movie.

Like, the opening of the movie.

Sara: Yeah,

Jeremy: Yeah, and, um, uh, they don't
say it, they don't go into great detail.

What we see is her handing the baby off
to RaÃºl and, uh, piecing out, taking

Sara: drives

Jeremy: and

Sara: the

Jeremy: heading out

and I feel like the
implication from the dream is.

Hey, if you try to force yourself
to, to be the mom to this baby,

it's going to kill you both.

Um, you know, it's definitely going
to kill you and it's probably, you're

probably going to take the baby with you.

I feel like the indication is
like, hey, she needs to go be her.

Like she's not either

ready to be a mom or cut
out to be a mom and she

Emmanuel: mean, it's not the life
she's supposed to be living, right?

It's the it's a detour she took for
her brother and her family's sake

that they don't even appreciate.

So it's like, well, fine.

I'm going to go back to doing
what actually makes me happy.

Right.

Sara: We have an idea that she's
maybe gonna cross paths with Octavia

again, but she doesn't end the
movie with Octavia and I love That.

Because I love Octavia as
much as I love this character.

I'm just like, go to
another city by yourself.

It sounds like you really haven't
had a chance to do anything like

that, you know, go on a little
vacation, try to do some journaling.

Jeremy: Yeah, I do think it's important.

I think it's important that like,
she's not choosing Octavia over RaÃºl.

She's choosing herself.

Sara: Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Emily: Yeah.

Emmanuel: It's not about Octavia,
it's what Octavia represents and

Emily: Yeah.

Sara: At the end, you're just nice.

Emily: Yeah.

you know, and it makes a lot of sense too.

There's a, huge relief about that.

Not just because, she's become
herself and she is, or she's becoming

herself and she's made her choice.

But there's when she is done with her
journey during the, uh, the ritual.

She has this piece about
her that is resolute.

I mean, RaÃºl's got the baby and
that's what he wanted, Like, yeah,

Jeremy: but I feel like the mood at the
end is like, you and your mom got the baby

you wanted.

I'm out.

Like, I, you don't really want me, you
don't want me to be a part of this.

Um, you, you've got the
baby, you live your life,

Sara: And I believe he's
going to be a responsible dad.

There's not many nice things I can say
about this man, but it seems at least

like he will take care of this kid.

I don't know if it's actually a good thing
for him to leave this kid with his mom.

Emmanuel: I feel like he's
gonna be a well intentioned

dad, but he doesn't strike me as
someone that's gonna like, do the

work of learning how to be a good dad.

Because he didn't do the work of
learning how to be a good partner,

or a good like, father to be.

Sara: yeah, the emotional part is
not necessarily going to be there.

Emily: yeah, he's, he will follow
the, uh, the instructions, but he's

not going to be invested in them,

Sara: Well, she'll come back
at some point maybe, or not.

She'll maybe be like, This is my new wife.

Now that you're an adult, we can visit.

You know, maybe things will calm down.

We don't know how that's gonna
go, and I think that that's great

because I don't need to know.

It's maybe whatever, but once
again, it's not about that.

That's something I really enjoy.

Well, it's just about her.

She goes off, she makes her
choice, and that's a good choice.

Emily: And honestly, the baby,
the baby's gonna be fine.

Sara: The baby will be fine, I guess,
is probably what I meant to say.

Emily: Yeah, I mean, like, it's about
her the movie doesn't preoccupy itself

with the shame or anything like that,
you know, because everyone's been shaming

her throughout the movie and this is
the one moment that she makes a choice.

And, RaÃºl's just like, I guess, he's not
happy about it but he's not like, Tearing

at her clothes, begging and, and bowing
and scraping to get her back, his, he

is, and the things that she's done also,
like, Even whether or not there was a

baby involved, if I was in a situation
where I was like, having a psychotic

break, I probably wouldn't want to

stick around either.

Sara: the kid.

Yeah,

Emily: Yeah, yeah, like, no
matter who was involved, it's,

Sara: I like that

Emily: you gotta pack
your bags a little bit.

Sara: Yeah, I like that she doesn't
want the baby, but she does want

to protect the baby, I guess, is
something that I appreciate about her.

Because I don't know, this movie isn't
really about, say, abortion or something,

but it is in a weird way about the,
why choice is so important, right?

And so I think that
that's really important.

I thought that the main theme of
this to me just made me be, Oh,

yeah, reproductive rights for sure.

Everybody should have them, you
know, and maybe it is sometimes

it's like whenever somebody goes,
God, because you're pro choice.

And then somebody goes, Oh, but
what if your parent had an abortion?

Wouldn't you be sad?

And it's like, just like this movie says,
this movie tells me it wasn't about me.

Doesn't matter, I didn't have
any say, so why would I be sad?

I would not exist, so that
doesn't make any sense,

but It just doesn't make sense.

And so everything about this movie,
I, it made me be very happy that

somebody made a movie like this that
was, she's not necessarily a bad mom.

She takes care of this kid as belt
as best she can while she's there.

And then she goes, you know what?

It's probably best for both of us.

We go our separate ways.

Sometimes that's just how it is.

That's fine.

Emily: And that's responsible.

Sara: It's kind of responsible.

Emily: Ultimately, yes.

Like, there's the saying, mental
health isn't your fault, but

it is your responsibility.

And I, I don't know if, like, my
interpretation of her seeing herself

draped in her baby's blanket As
the burning woman I see it slightly

differently than Jeremy you know, I think
that she knew that she couldn't take back

what had happened and she, like, this
relationship with his baby is fucked.

The choice that I saw her make in
that vision was The choice to let

go of that expectation, and she was
the burning woman was a sacrifice.

Because there's this the Guadalupe Virgin
who is the statue in the beginning,

which, there's a lot involved in the
symbolism of Mary and, sacrifice and

faith and, the trials of womanhood,
according to that particular dogma I

think that there was a, an element of
that in her vision where she was seeing

this kind of divine sublimation of the
expectation that she was up against, these

criteria that she was trying to meet.

And so when she came out of that and
looked at her baby and she was very gentle

with the baby, but she's like my first
responsibility is to myself, and I, if

I can't take care of myself and I can't
take care of a baby, so I'm letting this

baby go, and that's a kind of choice
that you don't see a lot of in films,

especially, like, films that deal with
this amount of, like, religious imagery.

Which I think makes it
that much more unique.

Sara: Never would a mom that leaves her
baby be the hero still of the story.

You know, it's from what you say.

Yeah, I totally agree with
everything you were saying.

And then I was also thinking,
yeah, for sure, in any other movie,

she would have to die, right?

It would be a moralistic ending of, Oh,
she has to die because she's leaving her

baby, but it's okay because she's dead.

That means she's out of the way.

And here it subverts just, you
know, how, I guess, how that

story would normally play out.

But this seems like, as much as
this is all about, you know, being

haunted by the Bone Woman, this
seems like a pretty real story.

Pretty much all parts of it, you
know, hit me in some way or another.

The fact that she's worried about
bones breaking, help, what pregnancy

can cause cracking bones, you know?

And so there was a lot of it that
I saw her review that called this

movie frustratingly ambiguous.

And I kind of was.

confused a little bit about that.

There's ambiguity to this movie for
sure, but we just talked about how

the themes are pretty clear, right?

We're all going, yes, she's contorting
herself into this person who she doesn't

want to be, but It seems like it's all
pretty spelled out and I think that

the only things that are ambiguous
is where does she go from here?

And that's not really what the
story is about is about this

choice that she makes, right?

So I did find that to be an interesting
thing and I wanted to hear everybody's

what everybody had to say about the
movie as we were going through because

everybody here was Oh, yeah, totally.

So this is metaphor.

You know, it could be construed this way.

It could be construed that way.

But it's pretty clear that this is a
happy woman who's being forced into a role

that doesn't fit her, essentially, right?

There's a lot going on in this
movie, so I don't want to simplify

it, but I just wanted to say, like,
I don't know how ambiguous it is.

There's, as I said, ambiguity to it,
but perhaps not a very ambiguous movie.

Emily: mean, it is purposefully
ambiguous about the reality of the

Bone Woman, but that's because the
protagonist is not sure, you know,

Sara: and I think she's real
because she comes across as

pretty real through all this.

Emily: she's definitely,

yeah, well, I mean, and I think it's
subjective, and that's the point, it's

that she is, she is real as fuck to our
protagonist, and that's what matters.

Because just like with these kind
of complex issues and with her

personal experience as during
pregnancy, there are things that

she can see that nobody else can.

And it is faith that can allow
other people to believe her, but

they don't invest that in her.

Emmanuel: One of the other people
that do believe her are other queer

women, like, Octavia's there for her,
her aunts are there for her, these

other witches are there for her.

It's the people like, yeah, we get it.

This is real.

They may not believe that it's real.

We know it's real because
you're telling us it's real and

we're going to deal with it.

Jeremy: yeah,

I you know, I mentioned the Babadook
before, but I feel like it, the

ambiguity as such as it is, is the
same in that, like, the fact that

the monster is you and or inside you
doesn't make the monster not real.

Um, you know, because it's, yeah,
because I mean, for her, it's just,

you know, I feel like it's tempting
to say like, Oh, she makes the choice

to become this person and then,
you know, is running away from it.

But like, that's not, accepting the
fact that like, this is something that,

you know, she feels like she has to
do as an obligation for her family,

Sara: and she tries and it breaks
her so that's kind of a thing, right?

Jeremy: yeah, which I feel like from a,
I feel like it's easy for people from an

American point of view even to say like,
oh, well, you know, she didn't have to

do this as a choice she made, you know,
but like, there's much more, I think,

of a tradition, both in a lot of like
Asian, East Asian countries and South

American countries of there being like
a literal filial obligation of like, you

know, you, you do owe this to your family,

Emily: I mean, I think that any, any
place where these families, like people's

families are so close knit, then, you're
definitely going to be expected to

carry that on because that's like the
legacy, when it is a different thing, I

think in America, it's because there's
this the individualism about, like,

striking your own and, but that also,
like, clashes with the expectation

the womanhood expectations, right?

Because no matter how successful
you are as a business person

or as a creator or whatever.

There's going to be everybody around
you being like, oh, my kids, and that's

something that, like, for someone like
me is something that I probably never

going to experience in that context.

And it's insidious.

Sara: Right, and the fact that none of the
characters do anything, you know, actively

violent or harmful to her, but they're
all really hurting her in this pretty

extreme way, I appreciated how that's
kind of where there's a lot of subtlety to

it, because I think that a lot of people
might watch, a character like RaÃºl and

be like, Oh, but he just doesn't get it.

It's fine, or something like that,
but it's definitely a character

who is so unavailable to her
emotionally, but has such high

expectations, and yeah, for sure.

It is insidious.

It happens.

I've never, in my whole life, I've
never Never have I once wanted children.

It's never been for me.

It's not ever since I was a little kid.

I've been like, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no.

And I'm 41.

I'm 41.

I don't even know that I would
still be able to have a child

and people will still be so.

So you just never.

You're just never, and
it's like, I'm so busy.

Hey, I have four rabbits.

I have four rabbits.

I have to take care of them every day.

They are a lot, and they are cute.

They are cute like a baby, and they
just stay that way their whole life.

But anyway, the point is, is it is
insidious, and it's like, it's the

insidiousness that it, that's this movie.

That's the horror of this movie,
is those people just sniping at you

constantly, just taking these, little
parts of you and telling you gradually,

Oh, I don't really, it doesn't make me
comfortable that you have other friends.

We could just hang out with my friends.

That's, it's, there's an
insidiousness to everything that

has gotten to her at this point.

And I think that it's just so well done.

I think that there's something about
this movie that Nobody, you know, maybe

it is all her, supposedly, but then you
see the way that everybody's treating

her, and you go, no, it's building up
on her, and that's what's going on,

and that's the real monster is these
horrible gender roles, I guess, but.

Yeah, it's like, it's so good.

It's such a good movie, and I
loved, uh, I loved that part of it.

Emmanuel: the thing, right?

Is that all the reviews of this talk
about how, oh, it's not really horror

and there's not really scary stuff.

I, I don't know.

I don't know.

I'm a grown man, like, horror doesn't
have to scare me to be horror, but also

there's an existential horror here.

The idea of giving up your, like, first
giving up your whole life to have it's

assumed by this identity of being the
partner and being the good suburban

spouse or what have you, and then to
have that happen again in pregnancy.

Like, that, that is a real horror
in addition to the broken bone

lady that's, like, tormenting you,

right?

It seems, So obvious, and it's strange
to me that people don't get that.

It's sort of like Emily was saying about
people commenting that this is ambiguous.

And like, I don't feel like it's
ambiguous in any kind of frustrating way.

It's ambiguous in that they don't
directly tell us what's going to happen.

But again, I'm an adult.

You don't have to do that.

Like, I

don't,

Sara: Yeah,

Emmanuel: interpret for myself
what this character would do based

on what we've seen of her so far.

it's phenomenal.

I love it.

Loved this, it was great.

Jeremy: Yeah,

Sara: scene with the oh, and I'm so sorry
to interrupt, I just got really excited,

so I was jumping, but yeah, it's That
scene where we don't know what she's

doing with the baby is perhaps one of the
most unsettling scenes I've ever seen.

So as much as somebody, somebody
being like, that's not horror.

What the hell do you think horror is?

That's so scary.

I don't, I didn't have to be a mom to
know that that was a horrifying thing.

Like, is just scary.

Emily: honestly, that's scarier
than the Babadook, because in the

Babadook, you have a Babadook, and
the Babadook himself is kind of funny,

Sara: Yeah.

Jeremy: yeah, I mean, I, to me, the
scariest moment in the Babadook is

when like she wakes, when she wakes up
after thinking she's awake and she's

like holding a knife over her son.

Like that's, that's the

Sara: It's that scene.

Yeah.

Jeremy: oh no.

Emily: and that's the same, yeah,
it's exactly the same as the, the

missing baby, like, waking up, and the
missing baby, and thinking that you

fucking threw the baby out the window,

like, Yeah, and I mean, I'm already
terrified of fuging out, no matter what.

Like, I don't have a baby to take care of.

I have cats, but they
can defend themselves.

But I still, like, just the, that
fear in the pit of your stomach was

so evocative of the not knowing.

Sara: The jump scares
are wildly good in this.

Those

Emmanuel: the body horror?

And like, there's a
dread about this movie.

I don't understand what movie
these other folks were watching.

Like,

it, it is firing on all cylinders.

Sara: nobody gets hit with a chainsaw.

Jeremy: Yeah, I mean, there's

Sara: Fair enough.

Jeremy: total of like four or
five jump scares in this movie.

Like, that's that's really it.

But I will say that moment when
she, when the bone woman breaks her,

her ankle, the way that they fuck
with space in that scene, where she

does not seem to be close enough.

And then you see her hand, like, reach
up out of the, from the side of the bed.

And it was like, Oh, God,
like, just watching it.

I was like, it got me.

I mean, I'm much more frightened of this
shit than I am Texas Chainsaw Massacre or

Emmanuel: Right.

Well, 'n I've said for years,
like, I love a good slasher.

Like, The Strangers, that movie, fucking
rules, but like, if you're coming after

me with a knife, I've got a chance.

Like, I can sucker punch you, I
can run, a broken bone woman that

can phase step or whatever she
does, like, I can't fight that.

Like, that's terrifying.

And also that liminal space of you being
the only one awake in the house and things

just sort of feeling weird, that is a
thing that I experienced as a person that

had insomnia for most of my adolescence.

Like, that's real horror,
is that, am I awake?

Is this real?

Am I safe?

Like, that's, so good.

Sara: Free cheers to this actor
for being able to pull those scenes

off where she's not screaming.

She's not doing anything over
the top, but she's just reacting.

And so much of the horror is
empathy based in this movie because

she's so upset because she sees
somebody jump off a thing, you know?

That's so terrifying, but it's
not like Oh, this person is

going to come and get you.

Although I have questions by the end
of that scene, but it's not necessarily

about that, it's just, you saw somebody
jump and this is an everyday horror.

You know, it's something very scary.

And then they look up at
you and you're like, Oh no,

Emily: yeah,

Sara: it's almost worse.

Like, what am I supposed to do?

That feeling, she conveys it so well.

This actor is incredible.

That silent horror is just chef's kiss.

Emily: yeah, she's,

Jeremy: Yeah,

Emily: really kills it in

Jeremy: I have to say, like, across
the board, I mean, this is, uh, you

know, written and directed by women
you know, the director co wrote it.

And like everything about the writing
and directing of it is phenomenal.

This is both of their first,
like, full length feature.

Before this, all they had were shorts.

You know, I guess they're making
another or maybe another two movies

right now, which, I mean, I will,
I will definitely be there for.

But yeah, Natalia Selyan, who plays
Valeria, and, and Maira Batalla, who

plays Octavia, are both incredible.

I mean, Like I said, Alfonso Desai, as,
as RaÃºl, like, RaÃºl is a fucking terrible

character, but that dude nails it.

Like,

Emmanuel: I

Emily: anyway.

So this movie is feminist.

Jeremy: Yeah.

I mean,

I feel like we've addressed that one.

Emily: And

Jeremy: I'm

Emily: and queer.

Jeremy: This I think crosses the line
between the LGBT stuff and the, the race

stuff, is I appreciate that this movie
has non white Mexican people in it that

like especially Octavia, who is, who
has more like, mestizo features who, you

know, is darker skinned, who has, not like
idealized straight hair that, you know,

you have, I feel like there's a tendency
For a lot of a lot of Mexican stuff that

is aimed to cross over to prioritize white
passing, you know, actors and actresses.

that like you have a real like sense of
the diversity of, of Mexico in this movie.

Emily: And you do have like, a
variety of heritages and not just

because you have queer anti witch

Jeremy: And then speaking of the witches,
like , that group is so like diverse in

body size and shape from what we, you
know, often see in, in these movies.

they're big women, like, they're real
ass women and, uh, the movie doesn't

apologize, doesn't feel the need
to be like, oh, these witches, um,

Emily: Yeah, they're very
normal women off screen too.

They were like off, not off
screen, but off, off ritual,

Jeremy: When

Emmanuel: Right.

Out of that

context.

Emily: yeah.

Jeremy: yeah.

Sara: hotties, too.

They're

Emmanuel: I said that when the
auntie's little boo thing shows

up, I was like, yo, she's cute!

Like, mm hmm.

Sara: yep.

Emily: you know, and she was non
apologetic about her interaction

with the woman in the, in public too.

The only thing that we see out of
that scene that's important that's

singled out is their interactions
and how they are more tender than any

interactions that Val has had RaÃºl.

Emmanuel: Or the rest of her family.

don't see anyone hug her or caress her
or like smile at her with that genuine

smile that the couple give each other.

Like,

I don't know, from like a queer
representation standpoint,

I think that's awesome.

The other thing that I've really loved
about this is I know people that are kind

of in valerious position that they seem to
be in apparent heterosexual relationships,

although they are actually bi.

It's just, yeah, the person I
married happened to be a man.

I'm still, feel attraction
across the gender spectrum.

And I think not turning to the camera and
being like, all right, here's what you

need to understand about my sexuality is

great.

Like they just sort of the ambiguities
that are in this movie are ones where

they don't beat you over the head with it.

They just let the scene
speak for themselves.

I think that's why it works.

Jeremy: and I, I love that scene.

I mean, it's while they're going to
the witch, but you know, they sort of

linger on the aunt and her girlfriend,
like, just sort of like, holding

hands, just sort of touching gently in
a, in a way that like, I don't know.

It's like weird for, or
not weird is unusual for.

A couple that isn't like teenagers in
a movie, you know they sort of like

linger on that and give you a feeling
of, romantic rather than sexual

intimacy between these two characters.

Emily: This is a, kind of
representation that is really rare.

And I think that, it stands as an example

Jeremy: I mean, this is, I think
one of the few movies we've

watched that is, feels like a full
bingo card it's got race stuff.

It's got mental illness and
physical disability stuff.

It's got social justice.

It's got class.

It's got feminism.

It's got queer people.

Like, it's doing all of it and
it's not about any of those things.

It's just like,

Emmanuel: It's just a banger of a movie.

I want

Sara: It's just a banger!

Emily: yes, exactly.

And, yeah, and the lack of fatphobia,
too, like, I mean, even Hellraiser fatness

is equated with body horror and that has
nothing to do with anything in this movie.

other than this is There is a
larger woman who is the warm

and giving partner of the ant.

Sara: It's still totally hot.

It's, they're all hotties.

Emily: Yeah, and, they're rockin it.

Like, even, like, all of these
old ladies, like, you know, in

another movie also, like, ageism.

Another movie might be like, look
at these hags and witches and stuff,

when they are, they're just hangin
out, like, there's this woman smokin

a cigar, and she's like li you can
see that she's living her best life.

Sara: I am hanging out with them so far
above the art people in the apartment.

So far above every other person in this
movie except for Octavia, essentially.

And Octavia's hanging out too, so we're
all just gonna hang out with these ladies.

Emily: No, like, I would feel, like,
if I was hangin out with Octavia,

I would feel really self conscious.

I'd be like, I don't think I'm cool

Sara: We should go over to hang out with
the witches, cause they're really cool.

So they're gonna make me seem a lot cooler

if we

over there.

Emily: the ones that I
have a, I have an anecdote.

Can I tell my quick anecdote, Jeremy?

Okay.

So apparently Sonoma
County is mostly witches.

Like, I didn't know this.

I don't really talk to a lot of people
about it, but I recently exhibited

at Zine Fest at Santa Rosa Zine Fest.

And the number of queer people
there with Leviathan crosses and

like, Luciferian crosses and stuff.

, I'm in Forestville uh, which is a small
little enclave out in the West County.

There are multiple occult shops that
are run by witches, and one of these

occult shops is also the women there
run the Forestville social media.

So that town is
essentially run by witches.

And you know, I have a little witch
hat that I wear, which is very nice

because it has a nice brim and, it also
makes it easy to find at conventions.

And I felt like I was, when I went
to the witch shop in Forestville,

I, wearing my witch hat, I felt
like I was the guy at the concert

wearing the t shirt of the band.

but the witches don't,
the witches are cool.

I just, they're out there and, uh,

Sara: was a witch.

Emily: oh, I didn't know that.

Whoa, nice.

Sara: She's the coolest.

She was the coolest person.

She was a witch.

She was a Southern Baptist who,
uh, hated it and decided not to do

it anymore and decided to be pagan
and got into all kinds of stuff.

One of the things that I grabbed
immediately whenever we went,

you know, Oh, so what did you
want from your grandma's stuff?

She has a ton of random things and
I'm just, I saw this little card that

said her name also is Hazel PS, which
was incredible for a witch, right?

But

Hazel?

Yeah, a hundred percent.

So her witch name.

Yeah.

So I see this card that just
says Hazel Piper certified witch.

And I was like, I think this is mine.

Nobody else in the family wants it.

This is mine.

Emmanuel: I would read something
called Hazel Piper Certified Witch.

That's

Sara: It's in it so good!

I carry it literally in my wallet.

I loved my grandma so much and that was it
is we had this really strongly religious

family that I personally didn't have to
interact with too much because my grandma

was pagan so I just, hey grandma I'm gonna
hang out with you and uh it was better

so yeah I guess, I guess witches abound I

Emily: yeah, yeah.

they're more likely than you think.

Which is in your town?

More likely, I mean.

Sara: Maybe you're related to one,

who knows?

Emily: yeah.

but when you, when you write that
biography of, um, Hazel Piper Certified

Witch, please, please come on the show
and promote it and we will read it,

um,

Sara: Yeah, that's been in front
of my face this whole time.

I never considered writing about
it, which is really funny, but yeah.

Emily: someday, someday, I can
tell you 41 is just the beginning.

Jeremy: All right, so we probably
ought to start winding this down.

I think it's fair to say everybody
here recommends this movie.

Did anybody have any, anything
they wanted to add to that?

Emmanuel: It rules, you should watch it.

Emily: yeah, this movie is really good.

Jeremy: Yeah, I, I think
this was my favorite movie I

watched last scary movie month.

So yeah, absolutely go
check this movie out.

Um, and then speaking of favorites
people, uh, what kind of recommendations

do we want to give Sara, did you have
anything you wanted to recommend?

Sara: As usual, I have a huge list.

Once I realized that I could
just make lists of things to

recommend to people, it's over.

So there's a movie called The Five Devils
that I think people should definitely

check out if they like this movie.

It's a French film.

It's really damn good.

There's time travel hijinks.

It's a lot of the same vein
of this film, I would say.

I would say check out the movie
Swallow where it's all about a woman

who's Body is treated as if, um, it's
just a carrier for a baby and the

way that she rebels against that.

Obviously Prevenge, I guess,
that's a funny baby movie.

Birth, Rebirth is a harrowing,
incredible child movie.

And then I'm going to
recommend some books.

I would say if you like this, you would
maybe like Stephen Graham Jones work.

I don't know why I thought that while
I was, uh, watching this, but maybe The

Good, The Only Good Indians would be a
good book to start with, if you haven't

checked it out, there is an appearance
in this movie of a book called Violence

Girl by Alice Bagg, and I would say if
you enjoyed this, if you enjoyed the

punk themes, obviously Alice Bagg from
The Bay and the Bags is a, is a Icon,

she's an incredible person, I've been
lucky enough to meet her several times,

and Violence Girl is a must read book.

If you've already checked that out
and you are wondering what else you

could read of that same nature, I
would say check out The Spit Boy

Rule by Michelle Cruz Gonzalez,
who is also an amazing human being.

I would say maybe the baby TV
series people would like, and, uh,

Carmen Maria Machado's work, maybe.

And then the novelist V.

Castro, especially Goddess of Filth, I
think is the name of one of their books.

Definitely check all of that out.

Jeremy: Fantastic.

That is quite a list.

Um,

Emily: I think I wrote everything down.

Um,

Sara: I could, and I had to cut
it because there was a few more

and I was like, you know what?

It's not quite thematic.

It's not completely a thematic.

So just keep it moving.

Jeremy: yeah.

Uh, Emmanuel, what have you got?

Emmanuel: I've got the two things.

So, uh, Emily already mentioned When Evil
Lurks that movie is a ride and a half.

I think it has pregnancy
things at its core.

It's certainly got some things that
are not great about it but that

is probably one of the more tense
things I've watched in a while.

It's a good time.

And then the other one is, uh,
another Aaron Benson and Justin

Moorhead film, uh, Spring.

There's an American
expatriate, he leaves the U.

to go kick it around Italy, and
he meets up with this woman who's

Something's not quite right about
her, and it also does the pregnancy

thing in a really fascinating way,

Sara: That movie is great.

Emmanuel: It's wild.

It's like a horror romance, uh, if
that's your speed, But I love everything

they do It's fun, it's a good one.

It's also beautiful at times.

It's such a good film, so.

Jeremy: Nice.

Uh, Emily, what have you got?

Emily: I just have one thing tonight.

I mean, I could have more things,
but I am just going to stick

with the work of Tony Sandoval.

He's a Mexican artist, comic
artist and illustrator and

he does all sorts of stuff.

He's really into the heavy
metal scene and the punk scene.

And he has a lot of incredible
atmospheric work that he does.

Check him out on the internet, he
has books, he has all sorts of stuff

out and sometimes at conventions, so
that's Tony Sandoval, S A N D O V A L.

And, well, and then Gideon the
Ninth, the, Gideon the Ninth books,

Jeremy: feel

Emily: they're,

Jeremy: been recommended several times on

Emily: oh yeah, yeah, but,
we can't let you forget.

Emmanuel: Lesbian necromancers in space.

Emily: Yeah.

That book is, That book is so bananas.

And like, I love that it works.

it's one of those things that like if
you thought about it I wouldn't know

that it would work, but it just, it does.

It works so good.

So don't let your dreams be dreams.

Jeremy: Yeah, I, I want to read that book.

I have started that book three
times now and not made it past like

the first couple of chapters, but
I understood like the first couple

of chapters are very slow build.

And I'm like, I know once
I get past this, that I'll.

Emmanuel: She has to get

Jeremy: this book.

Yeah.

Um, So my recommendations for
this, I feel like kind of hit

all of them to some extent.

We've talked about Babadook extensively.

I'm guessing if you're watching
this movie, you've probably

already seen the Babadook.

If you haven't, watch it.

One of the other ones that came
immediately to mind that I wanted to

talk about is one that we're going to be
talking about in like two weeks anyway.

Medusa, uh, which is a Brazilian film,
um, which is absolutely incredible.

But we'll talk about that
when we talk about it.

So the other one that I had written down
to talk about, Sara also mentioned, which

is Birth Rebirth which is accurately
described as a harrowing watch.

It is a rough one.

Uh, I did not, I did not know
that Carla from Scrubs was gonna

fuck me up that bad in that movie.

Um, shit,

Sara: wrecks that roll.

Oh my

god, what a performance.

Jeremy: both of them are so good.

her depiction is as this, mom who's just,
Fucked up and depressed and dealing with

the loss of her daughter and the other
main woman in this who's, you know, the

doctor who clearly like, doesn't get what
people are feeling and is like, no, this

is like, this is science that I'm doing.

Trying to bring people back to life.

It is a riff on Frankenstein about
this woman trying to bring this other

woman's child back from the dead.

And It has.

maybe the most heartbreaking scene
I have ever seen, which is like uh,

what the fuck is wrong with America?

you know, She is a nurse, she has to go to
work, she leaves her sick child with her

neighbor, and comes back, and like, there
is blood all over the place, and there

is a note saying that they've gone to the
hospital, and by the time she gets to the

hospital, her daughter is already dead.

And it's just like, if you
cannot handle that description,

probably don't watch this movie.

Because that's like first 15 minutes.

Sara: But if you feel like you can
barely take it, then yes, tune in.

Jeremy: yeah.

Alicia was in the other room
and she came in for something

or other and I was like, pause.

And she was like, what?

You don't want me to see
what you're watching?

I was like, no, I don't want
you to experience this movie.

It will not be a good,
it would not be good.

Cause like, Children in
Danger is her, absolute out.

And this one is like, this one is
like that for a solid two hours.

Sara: it's so good though.

That is such a good movie.

That really blew me away.

Jeremy: it's, you know, not a big budget
movie, but the writing and acting in it

is so intense and so difficult to watch.

But yeah,

it's,

Emily: way,

Jeremy: yeah.

I mean, in a good way from an art
standpoint, in a way that like, I

just remember finishing that movie
and just being fucking exhausted,

Sara: throw a table across the room.

Yeah, I would, whenever it concludes,
it's also concludes on a pretty heavy

twist and you're just, it's one of those
movies where the second the credits roll,

you're, come back, resolve this with me.

Jeremy: yeah, the, the shit that goes
down at the end of that movie is.

Sara: That's a good ass

movie.

Yeah.

Emily: I know, that, uh, when I watch it,
I'll have someone to talk to you about it.

This is me pointing.

Yeah, this is audio
medium, but I'm pointing at

Sara: Yeah, that's a movie you watch,
you roll around on the floor, you go

for a run, take a long bath, just a lot.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: Yeah, it's one of the
rougher, movies I've seen while we've

been doing this podcast, including
some of the really, really rough

shit we've done on this podcast.

Like, that one and, uh, Sara, I don't
know if you've seen Resurrection.

Sara: Yeah, that

movie was good!

Jeremy: both of those were
like, score 10 hated it.

Sara: Yeah, this

was an excruciating watch.

Thank you so much,

you were a

genius.

Take 100 out of my pocket right
now, like, you were the best.

Yeah,

Emmanuel: Evil for me.

That movie is bleak, like,
ooh buddy, like, talk

about child endangerment, like.

Emily: God.

Sara: bleak.

Yeah,

that's another

Jeremy: it's hard to make me hate Tim
Roth, because I fucking love Tim Roth.

But Tim Roth and Resurrection,

Sara: that movie.

God.

Jeremy: hate that man with such a deep And

Sara: No,

Jeremy: And Rebecca Hall,

Sara: lived.

Jeremy: Rebecca Hall's acting in
that is just like, I don't, I don't

understand how she is that good.

Um, yeah, but yeah, Resurrection has
nothing to do with this movie, but if

you want the double feature that might
drive you actually into your grave,

Sara: It's Rebirth,
Rebirth, and Resurrection.

And they're both about moms,
sucks to be a mom sometimes.

Emily: Yeah, I'm all about
movies that help me validate

my decision not to not breed.

So thank you everyone out there,
including those with us that

have done so, that are cool.

Thank you.

Pressure's off me.

Jeremy: I mean, I feel like, Emily,
you have the most kids of anybody

I know who has never had kids.

Like, you have kids without having ever

Emily: true.

Jeremy: Without having

adopted or

Emily: no,

Jeremy: you have a ton of kids.

Rocklers.

Emily: I'm so proud of them.

Holy shit.

Liz, if you're listening,
I'm very proud of you.

She was in my class way back in the day
when she was like 14, and now she is

helping organize all of the graphic design
for Sonoma County Pride all of the events.

Um,

Sara: proud of you.

Emmanuel: That rules Liz, great job.

Emily: yeah,

so, you do rock, when this comes out,
it'll be happening, and, love you, Liz.

I'm making a heart with my hands,
but you'll, you'll see me soon

and probably will know that.

Jeremy: Alright I think it's
time for us to wrap this up.

before we go, uh, Emmanuel,
could you let people know

where they can find you online?

Emmanuel: I am still lurking Twitter
for some reason, at elipscom2.

Jeremy: Fantastic.

And, uh, Sara, let people know where
they can find you and your work online.

Sara: where they can't find me.

I am not on social media, but you can
follow my newsletter at my website,

which comes with rabbit updates.

As you might have noticed,
I like to talk about them.

There was a moment where I went
away from the screen and it was

just because I was petting rabbits.

So, uh, you know, hear
more about that maybe.

And then I have podcasts.

I'm the podcast master, you know,
among many podcast masters today,

but I have a podcast called Medusa
Mask, which is a narrative horror

podcast that you can check out.

I have a comic book podcast called Best
Issue Ever, where you talk about your

all time favorite comics with creators.

And I have another comic book
podcast called Bitches on Comics.

And then I have another narrative horror
podcast called The Decoded Horror Channel.

It might be easiest just to sign
up for the newsletter, you know?

I'll just tell you there.

Emily: awesome

Jeremy: Uh, Emily, where
can people find you?

Emily: Megamoth.

net Mega underscore Moth on Instagram,
and Megamoth on BlueSky, but you can find

all of those things and more on Megamoth.

net, which is essentially my card.

Including my letterboxd.

We, Jeremy has a Letterboxd too
where we have rated a bunch of

progressively horrified movies,
so that's where you find that.

Jeremy: And we got our list.

We'll be updated every, uh,
every year after Halloween.

Put, uh, put all the stuff we've
talked about on here on there.

As for me, yes, you can find me there.

You can also find me at my website.

It's just jeremywhitley.

com.

You can find me preferably on
Blue Sky at Jeremy Whitley.

I am also on Tumblr, Jeremy Whitley.

I'm on the other bad
website at, uh, jrome58.

if you really feel the need to
DM me so that's there as well.

You can find this podcast at,
uh, progressivelyhorrified.

transistor.

fm.

And you can go order my book, Navigating
With You, which is coming out this summer.

It is a, uh, queer romance book about
falling in love over comics and manga.

So you should, go pre order that
and then read it when it comes out.

Emily: I know so many of you don't
know anything about what that's like.

Sara: I know, I was like, are
you sure that you're experienced?

Can you really write about this
subject matter from a knowing place?

Jeremy: Yeah, now I just have to
write one about, you know, falling

in love over horror movies, right?

Emmanuel: The sequel.

Jeremy: there you go.

so yeah, find the podcast itself
at Prog Horror Pod, either

on Blue Sky or on Twitter.

We are on Blue Sky now, so you don't
have to go on Twitter just to tell

us what you think of these movies.

And,

uh, Yeah, and find Ben.

Uh, Ben is off doing
comics stuff this weekend.

So follow them, go find
out what they're doing.

And I'm sure by the time you're
hearing this, they will be, uh, back.

we moved Attachment, our, uh, queer
Jewish horror movie to another

week so they could be here with us.

Because that movie fucking rocks as well.

And, uh, I did not want
Ben to miss that one.

Because we have, tried so hard to find
Jewish horror movies on this podcast,

and it's pretty difficult to do.

Like, I feel like there have been some
years of Pride where we're like, pulling

stuff from the 80s and 70s and stuff,
and we're like, it has gay undertowns.

And like, this Pride month, like, all
of these are from like, the last year,

and they're all fucking incredible.

We'll be talking about
attachment next week.

We're talking about Medusa
the week after that.

and, uh, what's our,

Sara: Good manners.

Jeremy: one?

Yes.

Good manners.

We're also talking about good manners.

So yeah, it's going to be fucking rad.

Oh, and we got a bonus week
because we're talking about

Assassination Nation as well.

So stay with us for that.

Well, this is Rocked.

Thank you guys so much for joining
us and talking about this movie.

I could talk about this one all
night long as we have already shown.

Emily: you guys are great

Emmanuel: It's always
a delight to see y'all.

Emily: Excellent.

Sara: fun.

Emily: Yeah, and this movie especially,
it was good to share this banger.

Sara: Yo, send your, send your
gay aunt, who's always had

your back, a gift certificate.

You

Emily: Yeah, Yeah, go appreciate,

Sara: just do it.

Emily: local witches.

Jeremy: pride.

Emily: Gay

Sara: if I'm the gay aunt.

Send me a gift certificate.

You know I like coffee.

It's expensive.

Come on.

Emily: I'll be a gay, a gay aunt.

I mean, I'm a queer

Jeremy: We just need a, that is like our
sticker that we need for this podcast.

It's just a sticker that
says, I'll be your gay aunt.

Like just,

Emmanuel: don't be a

Jeremy: your witchy gay aunt.

Emily: Yeah, don't be a Chip.

Jeremy: Don't be a Chip.

Emily: Don't be a Chip.

I'll be your gay aunt.

And then of course, A24?

More like 421A.

Jeremy: I will pass on that one,
but the other two, absolutely.

All right.

Thank you all for joining us and
until next time, stay horrified.

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