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A podcast focusing on the perspectives, lives, and stories of Kansans to provide greater insight into the state we all call home.
AAK_Ep48
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Australia Pin Giveaway
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[00:00:00]
Gus Applequist: Okay. So I just got back, uh, from a trip to Australia.
Sydney Collins: Okay.
Gus Applequist: And it's a good time there. A couple weeks.
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Gus Applequist: And because I'm a little bit crazy, I had to do something a little different.
Sydney Collins: Oh no. Which,
Gus Applequist: if
Sydney Collins: you guys know Gus. Gus is crazy versus my crazy vastly different. True. So this is gonna be real good.
Gus Applequist: True.
Okay. Well, I was, I was just thinking like, I'm gonna be meeting a lot of people, you know, tour guides and drivers and, you know, and I was like, I'd love to my, my mom when we used to travel, she would like, have us leave stuff, like Kansas related things Yeah. For those sorts of folks and, and like the, the people that clean up af in the mm-hmm.
Hotels. So I wanted to do something like that that tied into Kansas.
Sydney Collins: Oh no.
Gus Applequist: What I did was I created a pin and it is a, uh, Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz pin. Okay. And it says, [00:01:00] I'm over Oz. Let's get you to Kansas.
Sydney Collins: That is so funny.
Gus Applequist: And on the back it have a little nice podcast. Oh, that's cute. Cute. I, I, I handed out about 20 of these, uh, when I was in Australia.
And so if you happen to be in Australia and I met you. Thank you for checking out the podcast.
Sydney Collins: I'm gonna have to look at our analytics now. Yeah, I know. And be like, I'm really curious. Probably follow you through the trip of the, of your map or on the map. Like, oh, here's our Tanzania person, here's our
Gus Applequist: Tasmania.
Yeah,
Sydney Collins: Tasmania. Sorry, that's not
Gus Applequist: the first time. Tanzania, Tasmania. So I wanted to extend an offer if anybody is traveling out of the state or out of the country.
Sydney Collins: That is so cute.
Gus Applequist: And they would like to, uh. Take a little piece of Kansas with them to share with others, I'd be happy to send you, um, you know, 10 or or so of these pens to hand out.
Um, so yeah, just reach out to us if you're interested in that.
Sydney Collins: When did you have these, I have
Gus Applequist: so many questions [00:02:00] for you. It's
Sydney Collins: online.
Gus Applequist: It's online,
Podcast Intro Deb Goodrich
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Gus Applequist: Welcome to Ask of Kansan,
Sydney Collins: a podcast where we're amplifying, connecting and uncovering Kansas.
Gus Applequist: And today we feature another episode, uh, focused on filmmakers.
Sydney Collins: Yes. So month of March has been Kansas filmmakers. this one's a good tie in how. Journalism and how writing and how other creatives kind of transfer into filmmaking.
so Deb Goodrich is our guest today and we probably could have sat around and talked to Deb for hours. She has so many stories. Also, I don't think I've laughed that this hard on a podcast either. So
Gus Applequist: Yeah. She even made drinking water funny.
Sydney Collins: [00:03:00] Which is, yeah. Which is even like, that's a, I just, I just love her so much.
I'm like the biggest fan of Deb now. This
Gus Applequist: is a whole bunch of fun.
Sydney Collins: but she's a great way in how just trying something and doing it well and just again, being curious
Gus Applequist: mm-hmm.
Sydney Collins: Can cultivate your career and just feed into kind of that film world. A little bit. So we'll let Deb kind of fill in the blanks for you here.
So without any further ado, here's our conversation with Deb.
Meet Deb Goodrich
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Sydney Collins: Hello.
Gus Applequist: Welcome,
Sydney Collins: welcome, welcome. Hello? Hello. Hello.
Gus Applequist: Come on in.
Sydney Collins: Come on in. Have a seat. I was actually just on Amazon. I was like, man, we should have ordered her book. I was upstairs looking at. It's a great cover. It's a beautiful cover.
Gus Applequist: Stands out very nicely.
Sydney Collins: Beautiful. Beautiful. I do wanna talk about this.
Sweet. Well, here you go. Yeah. Here's some speaking points.
Deb Goodrich: Yeah,
Sydney Collins: well thank you. That's
Deb Goodrich: right.
Sydney Collins: Here, get comfy. Thank you. Um,
Deb Goodrich: this is lovely.
Sydney Collins: Well, thank you.
Deb Goodrich: That's [00:04:00] so nice.
Sydney Collins: Thank you. Thank you. For our audience, can you introduce yourself for us?
Deb Goodrich: Deb Goodrich. I live in Oakley. Which is damn near Colorado. And uh, I work with the Fort Wallace Museum among other things, and Wallace is on Mountain Time.
It really is almost Colorado. And we do a lot of cool stuff. I, my background is journalism, and I was a non-traditional student at Washburn, like really non-traditional and. I fell in love with Kansas history and haven't gone anywhere else since. Know I've been in Kansas preaching the gospel in Kansas history ever since.
Wow.
Sydney Collins: have done a lot of really amazing things in your career. Can you highlight just a couple of 'em
Deb Goodrich: for us? Yeah. Never made any money, but gosh, I've had fun. I've, I know. I guess that's what matters. I know the coolest people. I have had the most incredible experiences. [00:05:00] Film work. I know you've interviewed Ken Spurgeon.
Yeah. And of course he, and I've, I've insinuated myself in everything he's done practically. And we're working on a film now, under the Painted Sky, which is the story of the German Family Massacre in Western Kansas. And actually have a documentary on that out right now. That's on,
Sydney Collins: that's on PBS,
Deb Goodrich: right?
Yep. Yes. That's on PBS. Yeah. The Moccasin Speaks. Working on that, uh, writing. I, um, writing is hard, you know, I've got a short attention span and you have to sit down and think. Yeah. And yeah. It's just about killed me to get the book done after 20, 30 years. but I'm doing a lot of speaking on Charlie Curtis.
Mm-hmm. And, um, working on a screenplay based on the book.
Gus Applequist: Nice.
Deb Goodrich: So, yeah, a couple of my friends, um, Granger Hines, who's a very well known character actor, and, uh, Shelly Reed, who is a screenwriter. We're working on that together, hope to create a limited series so everybody will know about Charlie [00:06:00] Curtis.
Journalism Origins Lois Lane
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Sydney Collins: What got you interested in journalism?
Deb Goodrich: I heard Becky's story, you know she was five. I was four. Got one of Becky. That's right. I got you beat by year. Becky and mine is not nearly as, uh, serious as hers was. I was four years old watching Lois Lane on Superman. Oh yeah. And I'm like, that's what I wanna do.
I don't know if it was follow Superman around or just, you know, when I was a kid back in the dark ages, there weren't a lot of women on TV who were, who had careers. Yeah. You know, you had, um, Donna Reed who was the housewife, they were all housewives. Mm-hmm. Teachers, uh, which was respectable. But being a reporter was, that was pretty wild.
And she had adventures. And I'm like, that's what I wanna do. So I did. I was, uh, uh, I started writing when I was 15 for the local paper in [00:07:00] Stewart, Virginia. and I've worked in everything, uh, radio, tv, newspaper, magazine, you name it.
Gus Applequist: That explains your accent because I was like, I was getting, oh yes. I was getting,
Deb Goodrich: people in Kansas don't talk like this.
Yes, that's right.
Gus Applequist: But there is some hints of Western Kansas in there too, so, so it's nice. It's a beautiful accent.
Deb Goodrich: I've been in Kansas for 30 years now and people in Kansas are like, people in Kansas don't talk like that, but people back home are like, oh my gosh, you sound like a Yankee now. You know? So yeah, it's.
Gus Applequist: Wow.
History Bug Cemetery Lessons
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Sydney Collins: What got you into, into history? 'cause history is a big part. Part of your career. Seriously. Yeah. You
Deb Goodrich: really wanna know.
Sydney Collins: I really wanna know.
Deb Goodrich: Well, when I was, um, small, I was, uh, the oldest grandchild on my mother's side and very close to my grandparents. Um, we lived across the road from 'em and we were on top of the hill.
They were down in the holler, and I would go with granny to take [00:08:00] care of the family cemetery, and when we would go up there, she would talk about the people you know, and they were. Her family, she knew them and I got it. This is what is so hard about history, but I got it as that small kid that they were equal to me.
They were just, they had been just as alive as I was. And that is the thing that is so hard to communicate in history. Somehow. We look at the past and they're, um, they're flat. You know, they're, they're not real. They are, caricatures, they're, they're better braver, dumber, smarter, whatever, that they're different from us.
No, they're exactly like us. Exactly like us. They're just wearing different clothes and getting around in different ways, but they are exactly like us I just got it. So I've always had the bug for history.
Gus Applequist: That's such a beautiful perspective. Yeah. Yeah.
Sydney Collins: And I feel like that's [00:09:00] probably what helps you in your writing is that perspective.
Deb Goodrich: It does, because with Charlie Curtis, he's real to me. I wanted to make him real for other people, especially in Kansas, you know, you don't have, I like him. Mm-hmm. You don't have to like him. It's not my job to make you like him, but it's my job to let you know who he was. And so my book is a focus on him as a person.
maybe not all the political stuff, which is boring to me, but, um, but as a person, this is who he was and he is one of you. You know, he is a Kansan.
Charlie Curtis Story
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Sydney Collins: Can you give us a little synopsis of what the book book is and,
Deb Goodrich: well, Charlie Curtis, for those who don't know, was Vice President of the United States under Herbert Hoover.
So from 1929 to 1933, um, he was enrolled in the ca tribe. Um, he grew up, was born in North Topeka, grew up in North Topeka and on the car reservation. [00:10:00] At Council Grove, we went back and forth. Um, his mother was French call, he has a very unique, very unique life and, a very difficult life. His mother died when he was three years old.
Oh, wow. And he had a baby sister. And of course the grandparents take them to raise and his dad goes off to fight Quatre, um, joins the Army and goes off to fight Quatre. His dad is, I do a talk on him called a rake, a rambler, and a father to a vice president. You know, he's just, you cannot make him up.
He is what we call a colorful character. Um, and it's funny because I talk about this in history, I had so many preconceived notions. About, especially Charlie's dad and in doing the research blew every one of 'em. No, this isn't so, no, this isn't true. He was a rascal, but he [00:11:00] was also a, just an incredible.
Person. He's very, very interesting and not nearly like I used to do a slideshow, this is terrible, but I'd have a PowerPoint where I had a picture of Johnny Depp as Captain Jack Sparrow, and Charlie's dad is Captain Jack Curtis and I, oh, that makes, I'd be like picture Captain Jack Sparrow without the redeeming qualities and
Sydney Collins: without the redeeming
Deb Goodrich: qualities.
Yeah. And it turns out he had redeeming qualities, you know? So I've had to, you just have to
Gus Applequist: change up your mood.
Deb Goodrich: Your words. Sometimes
Gus Applequist: I'm sitting here astonished, and maybe this just tells you how poor my, uh, education about Kansas history really is. I'd never heard of Charles Curtis. This is, this is astonishing.
Isn't that sad? But there's a vice president from Kansas that I'd never heard of.
Deb Goodrich: Remarkable career. Remarkable career. Does he
Sydney Collins: have a name on a highway that we don't know about?
Deb Goodrich: Well, he's got a name on the office building in Topeka. Okay, so the Curtis State office building? Yep. Is that one on [00:12:00] 10th and Okay.
The corner of 10th and Kansas. He's got a, a lifelike, you know, a sculpture on Kansas Avenue now. Oh, okay. Yeah, I spoke when they dedicated that a few years ago. so some recognition, but yeah, he, he has kind of become a footnote or a trivia question and. people in Kansas should know him because it's, it's an incredible story.
Sydney Collins: What got you so interested in char, in Charles?
Deb Goodrich: Well, I'm from the, what sparked that?
Topeka Cemetery Adventures
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Deb Goodrich: I'm from the south and like I said, we love dead people, so I, when I came to Topeka the way I ca I got to know the community was walking around Topeka Cemetery. Absolutely true. And uh, there was this lovely lady, Sarah Mcne, who was sort of the unofficial historian and she would walk around with me and that's the first time I heard of him.
I think it was the first time I'd heard of the Carnation. I had no idea that Kansas was named for a tribe. [00:13:00] No, I, none of that. And it just, the deeper I. I got into it, the better it got. It just got richer and richer.
Topeka Cemetery has been very, very good to me. I lived there for a while.
Sydney Collins: In the cemetery or just
Deb Goodrich: in Topeka? Yeah. In the, no, in the cemetery. Um, yeah. There's a wonderful old home there that is the office for the cemetery. Um, Dr. Crane from um, Pennsylvania, who founded the cemetery in 1859 had built this wonderful. It was his country home and it's a mile from the capitol, you know, but then it was his country home and he had a place in town.
And, the. You know, founding fathers came out and everybody who was cool, Boston and all these big cities are getting these nice cemeteries. We need a nice cemetery because then they were just burying people at 10th and Kansas, the intersection of 10th and Kansas. That was the edge of town, and that's where they were burying people.
[00:14:00] So they're like, you know, this. you know, maybe we should come up with something better. And they said, you got the perfect place. You got these old rolling hills out here. And he's like, okay. So they. Created the cemetery. So eventually his home, which has walls this thick, it's, um, two stories with a basement and a, an attic that could have been a ballroom, that became the cemetery office on the main floor and an apartment upstairs.
So for a while I was the, um, historian and residence at the cemetery.
Gus Applequist: Okay. Other than, and lived
Deb Goodrich: there.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. Discovering Charles Curtis. I'm sure there are lessons you learned living in a cemetery like,
Deb Goodrich: oh God, I loved it. I loved it. I miss it. I really, I really do. I grew up very comfortable with it. Like I said, I, uh, my dad was a preacher, so we went to the funeral home once a week.
And, you know, I, I grew up with funerals, so it wasn't a scary thing for me. Mm-hmm. Like, it is, some people, [00:15:00] there's something very intimate about a cemetery, you know, somebody's final resting place and you, you see how they were remembered, like one of 'em, um. This is a story I tell often, but it's again, this is the way it happened.
I was walking through the cemetery one day, literally felt tripped over the grave of Cyrus K holiday. Now, did you learn who he was in school
Gus Applequist: holiday? Is that back holiday? No.
Deb Goodrich: Okay.
Gus Applequist: Sorry,
Deb Goodrich: sorry, sorry.
Gus Applequist: Wrong
Deb Goodrich: buzz. Yeah. Subtract points. All right. So. Cyrus Holiday was the founder of the Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railroad.
Okay. He was also a founder of Topeka, and he was mayor like five times till he told him he was going fishing and get somebody else but holiday. Uh, who is this? Incredibly influential man. I only knew about him because I had seen the movie Santa Fe Trail, where Errol Flynn plays Jib Stewart and Raymond Massey plays John [00:16:00] Brown, and you've got this wonderful old character, you know, Cyrus Holiday, the railroad man.
And that's when it hit me. All these people were in Kansas, John Brown and Jeb Stewart and Custer, and on and on and on. They were here and it just hit me like a bolt of lightning, but. People would call me, um, after I started doing cemetery tours, and they're like, where is holiday? We're driving around the cemetery and we can't find him because they look for this big important marker.
They go check all the big mausoleum names. No, he's, he was a Quaker, so he's got this very plain little. What we would call like a foot marker, you know, just that very plain, flat marker. So they never looked for him there. And how people are memorialized says a lot about them and it says a lot about what people thought of them at the time and it's a, yeah.
So it's a really personal place in so many ways. Wow.
[00:17:00]
Film Work With Ken
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Sydney Collins: well talk about film. How did you get interested in film? How'd you find Ken? Or did or did he find you? How did that partnership start?
Deb Goodrich: I've always loved television. When I was a kid growing up in the Blue Ridge Mountains, that really was a window to another world. I don't know if people see it as see film that much in the same regard anymore because our exposure, um, kids are exposed to so much more. People travel so much more. But for me, just [00:18:00] like watching Lois Lane on Superman, New York City.
P you know, that might as well have been Tim Buck too. It was, that was so foreign into me. But you saw all these other worlds. You saw how people lived, um, you saw how uh, they dressed and traveled and spoke, and, um, so I've always loved it. I've always loved that, that visual element. for a while, um, I was married to Tom Goodrich, who was, uh, was an incredible historian of Kansas.
he wrote the book Bloody Dawn, about the Lawrence Massacre.
Sydney Collins: Oh yeah, I've had her, I've heard of that
Deb Goodrich: book. Yeah. Well read it. It's a fantastic Okay. Fantastic book. And he sort of put that back on the map that had been forgotten about and, and it was Tom that really revived. That interest. So Ken Spurgeon was, uh, he wanted to do a film about bleeding Kansas.
And it's funny because Tom and I had been on the [00:19:00] road speaking and writing and I wanted to do a film on bleeding Kansas and just, I didn't know how to do it. So, um, but Ken gets in touch and he was a fan of Tom's work. And so both of us became talking heads in that film. Um, touched by fire.
Sydney Collins: Okay.
Deb Goodrich: And I'm like, Hmm.
Yeah, this is, and like I said, I've insinuated myself in everything Ken has done since. And I've got a, I around Kansas, you know, uh, was on TV for a few years with around Kansas and worked with, Heather Noel. Um. Carla Jennings with Ag am um, uh, Kelly, uh, uh, ecto, just fantastic and, you know, figured out how it's done, I guess.
And I've just got so many film ideas.
Sydney Collins: Mm-hmm. after your current project, do you have something in the works [00:20:00] already that you're like, Hmm, after this one it's definitely gonna be this.
Deb Goodrich: Well, I've got so many projects in the works. I hesitate to muddy the waters with this, but the next book I want to write is Killers.
I have Known.
Sydney Collins: Okay.
Deb Goodrich: And I didn't realize this until sitting around the table at Fort Wallace one day. Apparently I've known more than most people, and, part of that was because I covered court.
but that only accounts for two or three of them and the other 10 or so, I just knew. and that's interesting.
So yeah,
Gus Applequist: you're an interesting relationship with death,
Deb Goodrich: don't I, though? Yeah. Yeah. My grandson the other day says, grandma, why don't you watch anything that's happy on tv?
Gus Applequist: She,
Deb Goodrich: well, morbid old grandma. Yeah, that's, I mean,
Sydney Collins: I was just gonna say, my grandma watched a lot of um, oh shoot.
What'd they sell you stuff on tv.
Gus Applequist: Oh [00:21:00] no,
Deb Goodrich: IQVC.
Sydney Collins: QVC.
Deb Goodrich: Home shopping
Sydney Collins: channel. That's like all we had in the craft room at QVC. So I think probably some murder mystery would've been really fun to mix it up.
Fort Wallace And Many Hats
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Gus Applequist: How'd you get involved in Fort Wallace?
Sydney Collins: Yeah,
Deb Goodrich: coming out there to speak. Tom and I had been out there. Uh, and then, um, I got invited back to speak a couple of times and they, in, um, I was in Topeka, but in 20 16, 20 15, 20 16, I came out to speak and they were opening a new wing of the museum and it just sort of worked out.
I, Decided to come and live in Western Kansas. And, um, the opportunity with Fort Wallace, I was just a, an hourly employee then, um, in addition to 10 other things, but there was a lot of work to do with opening the new wing to the museum. And [00:22:00] so, uh, Valerie Smith with, um, who's was with NPR, you know, and, uh, High Plains Public Radio and Garden City, uh, is from Wallace. And she had designed this, oh, oh my gosh. Incredible addition to the, uh, building. But I did set up the military part of that, the fort side. uh, what a opportunity. I mean, it's just. Just incredible. And it just became more and more, again, the deeper I dug into the history of Fort Wallace.
Like, oh my gosh, this is incredible and it just sucks you in and, and I love it. And now I'm the Garvey Texas Foundation historian in residence. So I get a stipend, but I'm not at the museum all the time. And. They sort of pay me for my little black book. I know a lot of people and I get cool people to come and speak.
We have terrific programming, so proud of our programming. [00:23:00] So
Gus Applequist: a lot of our guests. This is not unique to you. A lot of our guests have so many different things going on.
Deb Goodrich: Yeah.
Gus Applequist: And, and so how do you, how do you balance all that? How do you integrate that? Hmm. Um, 'cause I'm sure there's things that kind of take you way off in one direction.
Other things that take you off in another, what's the common thread that brings it all together?
Deb Goodrich: I, it is hard. And, uh, again, my attention span, you know, in a journalist you've gotta know a little bit about a lot of stuff, and so I. I'm naturally curious. It doesn't matter. Doesn't matter what you do. It's interesting, you know, I, I like finding out how things work and, how things evolve. Um, my older daughter is in [00:24:00] insurance and.
Digital assets and whatever the heck that is, you know, and Bitcoin and all that stuff, which is so foreign to me. But I love talking to her about, um, how that works.
Sydney Collins: Mm-hmm.
Deb Goodrich: my sister is an accountant and she's also, uh, she's also a very creative person too. She really does. A lot of the people around me have both sides of the brain working.
I, I, I. I might have a little of that, but not like my daughter and my sister do. my sister was one of the first readers on my book. I had two other friends, Jane Pierce at the museum and my friend Carol Waske in Philadelphia and they are nice. my sister, not so much and. She would read something and she was a perfect first reader because she's not into history.
She can appreciate it, but she's not into it.
Gus Applequist: Yeah.
Deb Goodrich: [00:25:00] And she's a, an educated, intelligent reader without that foundation of knowledge. And so, um, she would read something and say, well, this is born as hell. I don't know why he put that in there. So that's gone.
Gus Applequist: What a gift. True criticism.
Deb Goodrich: Yeah. It's, and it's, it's, but I could trust it.
Mm-hmm. I, I could trust what she said, you know, that's the thing. I knew if she, if she was bored, then that was right. That, that needed to go where Jane and Carol might find a nicer way to say it. She just, you know, cut to the chase. But, um,
Sydney Collins: I wanna go to your family reunion.
Deb Goodrich: Oh, honey. Well, we are filming, we're working on under the Painted Sky.
the museum itself is a big investor in that project. Oh,
Gus Applequist: okay.
Deb Goodrich: And so we're filming, the middle of March and my sister's coming out because she is the bookkeeper on the project.
Gus Applequist: Wow.
Deb Goodrich: Oh, brilliant. And she also did, yeah, she lives Mount Airy. She lives Mayberry. Mm-hmm. You know, close to where I grew up.
And, uh, but she is [00:26:00] also the voice of Catherine German. And the documentary that we did. Oh. 'cause in researching, you know, the German family, who come from Georgia in 1874 headed mm-hmm. To Colorado for a new home. Um, John German is actually not originally from Georgia. He's from Wilkes County, North Carolina, right next you next to Surrey County, North Carolina.
Um, where, uh, we were born and, you know, grew up all around there and. I really wanted the voices to be, more realistic and not, and so Denise is the voice of Catherine German, right? Because they're in the Blue Ridge Mountains, they're in Georgia. They wouldn't have talked like Kansans either, you know, and just the short time it took 'em to get out here, so yeah.
And she did a fantastic job. Fantastic.
Oakley Annie Oakley Myth
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Gus Applequist: So you live in Oakley. I have a lifelong question that I've wanted to ask about Oakley. Every time as a little kid, I'd drive [00:27:00] by Oakley and see the billboard. I just assumed that it's named after Annie Oakley.
Deb Goodrich: No,
Gus Applequist: I figured as much. Please. What is Oakley named for?
Deb Goodrich: It's named after this railroad guy's mother or mother-in-law or something. And so obviously was sucking up somebody. Kansas. Kansas, yeah. Such so before Annie Oakley became a, yeah. A household word. So, yeah. Wow. But. It hasn't stopped Oakley from capitalizing on Annie Oakley. Sure. I live right across the street from the Annie Oakley motel, and people come from all over the place to take photos with the neon sign of Annie Oakley, who would've died at the short skirt and the little, yeah, she would've been mortified, but
Sydney Collins: I can go off on a tangent here just a little bit. So I went to boarding school in Missouri for a couple years. Well, when you're, a senior, you get to adopt a freshman, and my freshman was from Oakley. Mm-hmm. And so when we would have to come back to Kansas for breaks. We would just bring her with us and her parents would pick [00:28:00] us up, pick her up in Salina, and then they would take her all the way to Oakley.
So that's about the only connection to Oakley. I have cut that
Deb Goodrich: out and yeah.
Gus Applequist: Well I just know Oakley is where the big turn happens on the interstate. Yep. It's the first exciting turn, first big
Sydney Collins: turn,
Deb Goodrich: and, and Mittens is right there. Mm-hmm. You know, so. Our new hashtag Meet me at Mittens because everybody calls me when they're on the interstate, you know, meet me at mittens, I'm passing through, you know, so I go out to IHOP and have a cup of coffee or breakfast or something with friends who are passing through, headed to Denver, headed home from Denver, whatever.
How Deb Got To Kansas
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Gus Applequist: we normally ask this question like so much earlier in the podcast, and I, it just didn't occur to me till now, but like, so, so you born in North Carolina, grew up there. How'd you get to Kansas? Oh yeah.
What's the, what's the
Deb Goodrich: Kansas State? I came to go to Washburn. Okay, gotcha.
Mayberry Roots
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Deb Goodrich: So I actually, um, I, I qualify this Mount Airy, North Carolina Mayberry. It was, it's Andy Griffiths hometown. Um, was the closest hospital. So we actually lived on the Virginia side of the line. It's just eight miles. Oh. You [00:29:00] know, so when we went to town, we went to Mount Airy, but we were, Virginians daddy was born on the North Carolina side and grew up there.
But we're talking, you know, from here to, iron Avenue, from the Virginia line, you know, so we're just back and forth over the line in the Blue Ridge Mountains the whole time. But I, uh, was working, I always, I. Worked for radio, TV, or, or not TV at that time. It took me a while to get into tv.
Topeka and Washburn
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Deb Goodrich: Newspaper, and I just didn't get around to finishing my degree, and I just had a lot of change in my life and I wanted to finish my degree and, and I wanted to live somewhere different.
And Topeka was a manageable city in Washburn. One of my high school journalism teacher's, sister-in-law taught at Washburn, you know, and so I knew about Washburn and I, I had no intention of staying. No intention. I was gonna get a degree. What? Gotcha. I was gonna get a [00:30:00] degree in media.
Gus Applequist: Oh.
Deb Goodrich: And, and go home.
And, uh, gosh, I shouldn't say this. 'cause I loved Washburn. I loved Washburn.
Media Ethics Wakeup
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Deb Goodrich: I cannot say enough about Washburn, but the media, the first class I had in media was media ethics and, wonderful lady who was the professor, um, posed our ethical question that we would talk about the next class. your editor wants to run a story.
You don't have time to verify. What do you do? Well, I switched majors. I thought we got nothing to talk about. Number one, that's not realistic. number two, you don't do it. Number three, the real ethical issue is, the son of the biggest car dealer, who is also your biggest advertiser, gets caught dealing drugs and they don't want you to put his name in the paper.
Now, that's your ethical dilemma. That's the real world. But I'd been in the real [00:31:00] world world, so I knew what that was like, and I'm like, we just got nothing to talk about. Number one, if you think that's. Dilemma. Yeah, we got nothing to talk about.
Switching to History
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Deb Goodrich: So I went and visited with Steve Cann. He's passed away. He was a political science department chair.
I'll never forget. I went in and I just started babbling and he is like, huh? Uhhuh Uhhuh, you're a history major. And it's like, so I don't know what tip the, you know, abnormal scale on there, but he's just like, oh yeah, you're a history major. And I'm like, people can do that, you know? So I was a history major.
Gus Applequist: Did you know that about yourself before? He said,
Deb Goodrich: no. No. How stupid is that? Wow. No, I didn't,
Gus Applequist: I, and maybe a whole bunch of other people need to go see this guy.
Deb Goodrich: Yeah. It's like, no, I, no, I did not. And then I actually had a double major in religion and, no, that was a [00:32:00] dream or something. It's like people don't really do that, you know?
But yeah, you can be a history major. Wow.
Sydney Collins: So did you or did you not put the son's name in the paper?
Gus Applequist: Oh, in the ethical
Sydney Collins: delivery? In the ethical,
Deb Goodrich: you know, uh, most time I did. Um, I can't think of a time I didn't. of course it wouldn't have been my final say. You know, the editor would've had the final say But yeah, it, but that's tough. Mm-hmm.
Court Reporting Lessons
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Deb Goodrich: Covering court was tough, but God, I loved it. I loved it.
Gus Applequist: what stands out in your memories from, from that time?
Deb Goodrich: when I started covering court, I was 21 and you would think Mayberry, oh honey, I could write a book, the dark side of Mayberry. But, uh, We had a brand new sheriff.
We had a brand new district attorney, and the court dockets were just full. There was a lot of, there [00:33:00] was a lot of crime. There were some significant unsolved murders. There were a lot of We had a lot of manufacturing in Mount Airy at that time, and so you had the big parking lots with everybody that worked at the mill, and they'd get outta work and their battery would be stolen outta their car, and I mean a bunches of batteries.
It was ridiculous. So. The newspaper. We also had a new editor and she didn't know what she was doing. She got her job sleeping with the publisher, and they got married. And then I love
Sydney Collins: all of this team,
Deb Goodrich: real world honey. This is the real world. And it served me so well that she didn't know anything. She really wanted to focus 'cause all her friends at the country club were talking about all this crime and she sent me to cover court full time. I didn't know squat. I mean nothing. Nothing less than nothing. Oh, it was sad. [00:34:00] But, I asked questions and when I started covering court. I would go in and sit down and the attorneys, the cops, whoever would move and go sit on the other side of the room.
By the time I left, I was sitting in chambers when they did plea bargains.
because they knew they could trust me, but I would call, I bugged the clerk of court every day. After court was over, I'd call him and I'm like, okay, they made this motion. Is that normal? Is that the standard operating procedure?
Yes. And he would explain why. so they knew I was serious about getting it right. And I never misquoted anybody. I never put, anything outta context. You know, it was, I, I worked very, very hard at getting it right and we had. Great cops. We had a [00:35:00] fantastic da, we had a good sheriff, we had some very good judges.
And it was just to see the system working right. You know, and to understand the role of the media in that and, keeping it honest. And it was, yeah, it was, I'm so grateful. So grateful for that. Wow. That experience. Hmm.
Journalism Meets Film
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Sydney Collins: can you, um, kind of tie in where journalism and film kind of connect for you?
Deb Goodrich: storytelling. I think that's something Becky Tanner talked about too.
And I, I just cheering her on because storytelling as is at the heart of film, it's at the heart of, uh, at the, at the core, I am a storyteller. stories save civilizations. That's what keeps us going. We are hardwired for stories. you know, why didn't, why did Jesus talk in parables? Why didn't he just say, do this or do that?
[00:36:00] Because in the process of the story, we're transformed. You know, we go on a journey with a story. So it's not just, it's not just intellectually hearing something, it's experiencing it, and that is what is so wonderful. About film and being able to take these stories and put them, in a media that encompasses everything.
You put music and you put, images and all these things. I'm, I'm such a big believer in music as a communication tool, and we've used that I think very well with the films and journalism. I don't care how sophisticated you get, it's still telling stories. You know, Joe robbed a bank last night for Pete's sake.
You know, it's, that's a story. It's a story. Why did Joe rob the bank last night? You know, well, you know, Joe's been [00:37:00] on drugs ever since he, you know, his daddy left and all this stuff. You know, it's stories. It's all stories. And that's what moves people and it's what keeps us going.
Kansas Pride Problem
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Sydney Collins: What's kind of your, um, hope for Kansas next? Like, what do you wish Kansas would do more or say more, or learn more?
Deb Goodrich: the thing about Kansas that is so difficult is Kansas doesn't realize how great it is, and that's part of what makes it great.
But I work with a lot of school kids and, and always have, you know, as president of Shawnee County Historical Society for a while. And, kids need to be proud of the place that they grow up.
You know, I grew up in Virginia, so we're like the center of the universe and it's okay. You know, you grow up and go somewhere and you find out, well, maybe not, but still you grow up knowing that this was [00:38:00] important. And I think. Kids in Kansas in general do not get that message that this is an important place.
And that's something I've worked really hard on. important things happened here, important people have come from here, and that is, um, that's the biggest thing Kansas has to work on. You know what our biggest export is talent. Talent.
Sydney Collins: Oh, that's so good.
Deb Goodrich: And that really bothers me. And in this, it's okay to, you know, everybody wants to go live somewhere else I did.
but we've got to figure out keeping more of that talent at home or bringing it back home and, the internet, you know, the new. We'll make it easier, but they also need that sense of pride in that this is a worthy place. And I, I think as a [00:39:00] historian, this stems from the first 30 years of Kansas, we're so violent and every time Kansas is in the news, like I'll never forget researching at the Library of Congress and going through old newspapers.
On microfilm and the London Times 1856 on the front page War in Kansas, the London Times. So everything people are getting from Kansas for the first 30 years, it's somebody being killed. You know? It's, it's, uh, not safe. It's, so, I think Kansans start perpetrating the myth that we're boring and stable.
'cause this is a sound, you know, they want people to invest in the railroads and other businesses. So you want stability. You don't want interesting. You don't want colorful, you want stable. And so that's what they start, you know, they start putting that word out. [00:40:00] Yeah. which is fine. But I think they went so far,
Gus Applequist: we never stopped.
Deb Goodrich: Right. Yeah. That there's, there's something very self-deprecating that can be, maybe ingratiating or um, uh, at first, but we've gotta find some balance, you know, to get past that a little bit, I think.
Fort Wallace Plug
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Sydney Collins: Deb, thank you so much for joining us today.
Gus Applequist: Yeah,
Deb Goodrich: this is a, where's full fire? Oh yeah, we have the fire.
We gotta get the commercial in. Commercial in here. I'll let you do it. All right. So I don't know when this will air, but it doesn't matter. Okay. So, um, from Fort Wallace, we do all kinds of cool programming and our theme this year, we have a different theme every year is from. Wallace to the little Big Horn.
So Miles Keo, a gorgeous Irishman right there, um, was our commander. He died with Custer, with the Little Big Horn and Comanche the horse That's at ku. Oh yeah. That was his horse. Oh, it was saved because it was Kios horse. He was Beloved Custer. Yeah. We can take him or leave [00:41:00] him, but Keo was beloved and that's why they saved that horse.
Right. And so. His family is actually coming from Ireland in June to Fort Wallace. Oh,
Sydney Collins: wow.
Deb Goodrich: I went over there a couple of year, well, yeah, year and a half ago, 2024, and spoke in his hometown and I was a national heritage speaker. It was incredible. So all year, our event, so if you don't make it to the March 14th symposium, which will also be online, we're gonna.
We're, we're going out on a limb and we're gonna try to get it all online and do some really cool stuff, but
Sydney Collins: Brilliant.
Gus Applequist: Wow.
Deb Goodrich: Yeah.
Gus Applequist: It is so impressive to see all the different things that you're up to and that you've done and mm-hmm. Man, uh, just I think from Kansas, thank you for, for investing in it in this way that you Oh,
Deb Goodrich: thank you.
Kansas has been good to me. I love it. I really do.
Sydney Collins: Well, thank you so much for being on.
Deb Goodrich: Oh, thank you. This is wonderful.
[00:42:00]
Post Interview Wrap
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Sydney Collins: Well, thank you for joining us, uh, for that conversation with Deb.
Gus Applequist: Yeah, I, I think Deb and I kind of said this in the interview, but, we have, we have a lot of, of guests on that, um, that have just so much going on in their lives, Uhhuh, so they just pour themselves out into all these different things they're passionate about.
Deb is just another one of those amazing people.
Sydney Collins: Well, there's stuff that we didn't even cover. Yeah. Like she's, we were talking after and she's like, oh yeah, I'm on the board of the State Historical Society. We're like, well, we didn't even touch that.
Gus Applequist: And I don't know. Sorry,
Sydney Collins: Deb.
Gus Applequist: Did we ever actually name the book?
I don't know if I don't think we did. We
Sydney Collins: [00:43:00] did.
Gus Applequist: So the book is called From the Reservation to Washington. And the tagline is, discover the remarkable journey of Charles Curtis, the first person of color to serve as vice President of the United States, which that alone is just like mind blowing. I did not know
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Gus Applequist: That we had a vice president of color, so Wow.
Sydney Collins: We would've known. Yeah. we'll put all the, she has, she is just a fountain of information, so we'll make sure all that is linked, um, in the description. You can also now find. links and bios on her on our website. We've been starting to do that with guests.
So go to ask a canson.com. Um, click on episodes and you'll be able to find some more kind of behind the scenes fun, uh, with Deb.
Gus Applequist: Nice. Okay.
Less Fun With Flags
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Gus Applequist: I have behind the scenes been hyping the segment. I'm about to very much
Sydney Collins: so. He is
Gus Applequist: real proud of this. Um, I'm, I'm pretty excited about it and so I hope it goes well.
Uh, I think I mentioned in a previous episode, um, that my sister gave me an interesting present for Christmas. [00:44:00] It was like a bag full of Kansas stuff, and among that bag was this Kansas flag.
Sydney Collins: Okay. You did mention that.
Gus Applequist: I did. Okay. And, and we don't have to like hold this up the entire time. Oh yeah.
Sydney Collins: But
Gus Applequist: we
Sydney Collins: are,
Gus Applequist: but, but, uh, so, so welcome to and, and Merlin.
Let's go ahead and bring that.
Sydney Collins: Is this fun with flags?
Gus Applequist: This is Gus's. Less fun. Less fun with flags. Um, oh my God. Yeah. So, so we're gonna talk today about the Kansas flag and, um, and we're gonna, we're gonna just see, um, from a ologist standpoint.
Sydney Collins: All right, Sheldon,
Gus Applequist: uh, uh, how good this flag is and, and, uh, yeah.
So let's, let's dive writing. Let me grab my script here. Are
Sydney Collins: we still holding the flag?
Gus Applequist: We, we don't have to hold the
Sydney Collins: flag. Okay. Let's put the,
Gus Applequist: yeah. The flags down.
Sydney Collins: It is, it allowed. Touch the ground. Okay.
Gus Applequist: It's a nice carpet.
Sydney Collins: Kansas flag.
Gus Applequist: Hopefully no one's offended by that. Um, uh, [00:45:00] so, so if, if this isn't ringing any bells for you, um, you may remember Sheldon Cooper from the TV show, the Big Bang Theory.
He had a ongoing kind of segment, uh, of that show called Fun With Flags,
Sydney Collins: Sheldon Cooper.
Gus Applequist: Um, and, and that's where he explored the rich world of Vex. I hope I'm saying that right.
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Gus Applequist: Um, and that's the study of Flex, uh. So today we're gonna talk about the Kansas flag, and we're, but before we do that, I'm gonna talk just about my own little history of flags.
Sydney Collins: Oh, good. Because I was gonna give the, the audience history, but go ahead.
Five Flag Rules
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Gus Applequist: So, so back in 20 15, 1 of my favorite, um, podcast hosts a guy named Roman Mars from the podcast, 99% Invisible, did a TED Talk, and it was a weird Ted Talk because it was like. A live podcast.
Sydney Collins: Mm-hmm.
Gus Applequist: And he basically talked about the five rules of good flag design.
And these rules came from the national, sorry, the North American Vex Logical Association. So, uh, we're [00:46:00] gonna go through these rules one by one and we're gonna see how our flag does. Okay?
Sydney Collins: Oh goodness.
Gus Applequist: Okay. So, uh, you can go onto the next slide there. So, five rules of good deck. Good flag design. Next slide.
Okay, number one, keep it simple. The flag should be so simple that a child can draw it from memory. So here we have a couple examples of good simple flags, right?
Sydney Collins: Yeah. Can I
Gus Applequist: please,
Sydney Collins: uh, this is nothing to do with what you're talking about, but it is really funny. Somewhat. Go find the TikTok of the kid telling you what the flags mean during the Olympics.
This kid goes, well, why does the plus sign? So like, he thinks that's an off plus sign. You need to go back to school anyway. Sorry, go ahead. There's a,
Gus Applequist: okay, so here we have the, uh, Japanese flag, which is a red dot On a white background, we have the Swedish flag, which is a yellow cross on a blue background, and we have the Texas flag, uh, which is also very simple.
Um, [00:47:00] so does it pass? Go to the next slide please.
Kansas Flag Fails
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Gus Applequist: Our flag has a state seal. That contains, and I'm not exaggerating, a rising sun, a river, a steamboat, a cabin, a guy plowing a field with horses, a wagon train heading West Native Americans on horseback hunting, bison, 34 stars, rolling hills, and our state motto in Latin, I dare any child in this state to draw that from memory.
And I dare any adult to draw that from memory. Um, so it's complicated. It is. It's not simple.
Sydney Collins: Yep.
Gus Applequist: Going on to rule number two. Uh, rule number two is to use meaningful symbolism. So earlier in this episode, I said, I just got back from Australia. Um, anywhere you see the Australian flag, you also see the aboriginal flag.
Yeah. And this is the Aboriginal flag of Australia. The black represents the aboriginal people of Australia. The yellow represents the sun, the giver of life and protector. Red represents the red earth, the red ochre used in ceremonies and aboriginal people's spiritual relationship to the land. Right? [00:48:00] Um, so, and this is true of of many flags, that there's this sort of symbolism.
We all know the 13 stripes in the US flag represent the 13 colonies, 50 stars, 50 states. Okay, well let's, let's look at the Kansas flag. I'm gonna give, so go, go ahead to the next slide.
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Gus Applequist: So the Kansas flag gets partial credit. The symbols do mean something. At Astra Perra to the stars through difficulties is a genuinely great motto.
Um, the 34 stars for statehood, the agricultural imagery, there is meaning here. It's very literal, meaning it's very like in your face, meaning
Deb Goodrich: mm-hmm.
Gus Applequist: Um, but the problem is you can't see any of that when the flag is flying on a pole, 60 feet in the air. It is a whole mural crammed onto a, a bed sheet that's, that's, uh, that's kind of a vex, just nomenclature for, it's a bad flag design.
Sydney Collins: Okay.
Gus Applequist: Okay. Rule number three, use two to three [00:49:00] basic colors. This makes it easy to recognize and recreate. So here we have Germany, France, and Poland. Poland only needed two colors. Um. Yeah, so, so you ready for this? Yeah. Let's go to the next slide. I'm
Sydney Collins: ready.
Gus Applequist: Kansas specifies the following colors on our flag seal.
Silver, purple, deep yellow, light yellow, yellow and orange. Azure, green, light, blue, white, dark brown, brown bay, and dark, almost black.
Sydney Collins: 13. 13.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. And, and if you go and you look online, you'll also notice that this varies wildly.
Sydney Collins: Oh yeah. They're not
Gus Applequist: all the same. 'cause there's so many colors.
Sydney Collins: Even this, this one is different than that one.
Gus Applequist: Yes. Yeah. Okay. We're gonna move on to rule number four. No lettering or seals.
Sydney Collins: Mm.
Gus Applequist: Uh, yeah, this is a big one. I, I've thrown two more Miss the mark of my favorite flags in here. This is Botswana and Republic of Congo.
Sydney Collins: Let's pause for a minute.
Gus Applequist: Yes.
Sydney Collins: You have favorite flags.
Gus Applequist: I have a lot of favorite flags. Okay.
Flags are [00:50:00] fun.
Sydney Collins: Just wanna just keep going.
Gus Applequist: Um, okay, so, so let's, let's, uh, let's go look at our flag again. Uh, next slide. So does it pass, not only do we have, uh, the state motto in the state seal, in our state flag. We also have the big word, Kansas, because our state seal is not distinctive enough to differentiate it from other states.
Sorry, I'm, I'm on my soapbox here. I apologize. We're we're getting there. Okay. Finally, rule number five be distinctive. Can it be confused for other flags or designs? Mm-hmm. Now, I've, I've included on this slide, a picture of the United States flag and the Great Britain flag. Just because, um, these are recognizable from a great distance.
Mm-hmm. You cannot mistake them for something else. Uh, go onto the next slide for me. So here is all of the state flags of the United States, and [00:51:00] many of them have their state seal on them. Many of them have a dark blue background. A few of them have to rely on the name of their state printed on the flag.
Um, in fact, 38 I believe out of the 50 US flags, state flags rely on their state seal in some way.
Sydney Collins: Can we talk about how Florida and Alabama and Florida's just like, man, we'll just put a seal on it. Like it's the same thing.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. I
Sydney Collins: Alaska love Alaskas. Yeah. Arizona. Mm. I kind of like it.
Gus Applequist: Okay. Before we go through,
Sydney Collins: I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go through one by one.
Gus Applequist: I just, I wanna talk just for a second about. The use of the state seal, like we do need a state seal every Yeah. You know, we have, that is something, but, but it is part of our flag as well. Like, it, it, it doesn't need to serve a dual purpose in that way. Yeah. Okay. So let's, uh, let's quickly [00:52:00] review, um, what's our next Yeah.
Final verdict.
Sydney Collins: Oh,
Gus Applequist: no. So rule number one
Sydney Collins: we didn't do very
Gus Applequist: good. Is it simple? No. Rule number two, does it use meaningful symbolism? I'm gonna, I'm gonna say I gave it a thumbs down. I'll give it like a thumb sideways because it does use meaningful symbolism. Yeah, it's very literal and it's very hard to see.
So most people viewing the flag from a distance are not gonna get any of that. Rule number three, it uses one to three colors, no rule number four, no lettering or seals. No. And rule number five, is it distinctive? Uh, no.
Sydney Collins: No.
Gus Applequist: So Arkansans capable of creating a better flag.
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Gus Applequist: And, and how do we know this?
Going to the next slide, please.
Wichita Flag Wins
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Gus Applequist: Here is the flag of Wichita, I think. I think this is a really great flag, and, and there's a couple.
Sydney Collins: You do love this flag.
Gus Applequist: I, I love this flag. Let's go through our rules real quick. Okay. So simple. It's radial rays emanating from a central circle. Child. A child could absolutely draw it from memory with a compass and a few straight lines, uh, [00:53:00] meaningful symbolism.
The blue circle represents happiness and contentment. The red and white rays represent paths of freedom and the white symbol inside the blue disc represents a permanent home. The red, white, and blue colors tie to patriotic American symbolism, and all of this traces back to designer. Uh. Cecil McAllister's original 1937 intent.
I, I believe there was a previous flag that that's referencing.
Sydney Collins: Gotcha. Make sure
Gus Applequist: there's two to three basic colors. Red, white, and blue. Very clean. Uh, there's no lettering or seals and it's distinctive. This, this really is a distinctive design.
Sydney Collins: Very much
so.
Gus Applequist: I've never seen a flag like it before. Um, and. So when we kind of look at how to grade flags Nava, which is that ology association went through and, and judged all of the state flags.
Sydney Collins: Oh,
Gus Applequist: and actually all of the Canadian provincial flags as well. And out of 72 of those, Kansas ranked 69th, [00:54:00] uh, we scored a 3.0. One out of 10. That's a D minus. Uh,
Sydney Collins: and who was in last?
Gus Applequist: I don't know. I didn't, I didn't do that. I don't
Sydney Collins: know.
Gus Applequist: Um, however, uh, in 2004, uh, Nava scored the, and actually I think this is old information because 2004 was before this flag was designed, I'm pretty sure.
Um, but at that time, they scored it as an 8.41 out of 10, which made it the sixth best flag design out of 150 American cities.
Sydney Collins: Wow.
Gus Applequist: So Kansans are capable of creating a better flag design, and I, I put it on you o audience, uh, to, to tell me your opinion about our state flag. Uh, would you like to see something different, or do you wanna stick with the, uh, the old seal and sunflower here on our state flag?
Sydney Collins: I love that this podcast is about amping up Kansas, but we're just gonna tear the flag apart.
Gus Applequist: Oh, I'm gonna rip the flag. [00:55:00] No, I'm not gonna rip the flag. No, I love, I love Kansas. I, I love the symbolism that the seal represents. Yes. I just don't think it belongs in our flag.
Redesign Ideas and Outro
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Sydney Collins: I do think, I mean, we've kind of honed the navy and yellow.
Mm-hmm. So I think instead of having a blue flag, I think it needs to be mainly yellow with blue accents. I think that would be like a gold with blue accents is what I would like to see. Oops. And then maybe, and then here's the part that I'm not super, like I don't understand about the seal. Why is there a boat?
Gus Applequist: It's a steamboat. Um, I
Sydney Collins: understand Youand. It's like the corner probably of Kansas, right? The corner of Kansas, wherever the, was it the Missouri River? But like,
Gus Applequist: and, and let's, that's only a little segment. Be honest. We're getting a little bit of Purple Mountain majesty there.
Sydney Collins: Yeah,
Gus Applequist: I mean, we, we have some nice hills, don't get me wrong, but I think this might be a little bit of a stretch to the imagination, so
Sydney Collins: maybe
Gus Applequist: so.
Don't kill me, please. I'm. [00:56:00] I'm just your friendly local ologist here to plead for something better.
Sydney Collins: I feel like we need to have some sort of competition of like, who can make the best Kansas flag.
Gus Applequist: I mean, I'd love to see if somebody has an idea, they'd love
Sydney Collins: to pitch. I'm gonna go out in my office later and create a new flag.
Gus Applequist: Okay. I'm looking forward to seeing it.
Sydney Collins: Yep.
Gus Applequist: Well, thanks for tuning in to another episode of As Canson.
Sydney Collins: Please make sure to like and subscribe. Give us a review from wherever you are listening or watching from.
Gus Applequist: Check out The Curious Kansan newsletter on our website. Um, yeah,
Sydney Collins: make sure to sign up for said newsletter too.
Um, we're starting to get that out once a month with, uh, behind the scenes content and future episodes that you won't see anywhere else on our socials.
Gus Applequist: Well, thanks a lot for tuning in and have a great day. Bye.
[00:57:00]