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The Healthy Wealth Experience - Where Financial Success Meets Personal Wellbeing
Host Chris Hall combines 30+ years in finance with wellness expertise to help entrepreneurs and professionals build wealth without sacrificing their health. From investment strategies to money management, we offer advice to make financial success more sustainable.
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Chris Hall (00:06)
Hello and welcome to the Healthy Wealth Experience. I am your host, Chris Hall, and I am really excited to bring you a special edition of the Healthy Wealth Experience. This one really has nothing to do with health or wealth, but it's just very fascinating. these folks reached out to me and I just really thought it was exciting and something to talk about that not really many people are talking about. So here we go. We're gonna talk about what's called the Simkinson NASA Archive UFO investigation.
I have the co-investigators here. Ed Wilson, say hello, Thanks, Reiner. And then Seth Lamacusa, and he's the other co-investigator. Thanks for being here, Seth.
Ed (00:38)
Hi guys, nice to see you.
Seth Lamancusa (00:45)
Thank you.
Chris Hall (00:47)
Okay, so here we go guys. Again, normally our podcast is generated around things that are health or wealth oriented or stuff like that. But again, you guys reached out to Madison, our production manager, and she just thought this was fascinating and wanted to talk about it. And I like this kind of stuff too. So for those of you guys who are used to listening to talks about carnivore diet or cancer or wealth management, either...
come with us or don't, but it's gonna be fun. We're gonna have a good time. We're gonna geek out on stuff that ⁓ probably is very exciting to most people. So here we go. First and foremost, Ed, tell us a little bit about yourself and how this thing all started out for you.
Ed (01:24)
I'd glad to Chris. I'm really excited to meet you people out there. From what I've seen of Chris's work, you are a well-educated and very, very capable audience. And I'm pleased to be able to present this evidence to some people that I normally don't reach. well, thank you and your audience in advance.
Chris Hall (01:42)
Thank you Ed, that's very nice.
Ed (01:47)
This is a real opportunity to get some of this information out to people who normally would not be on these channels. Let me explain first of all that this is about a UFO find that we've discovered that we are in progress of completing three years of research on it and it's very extensive and it's all documented. It's all NASA photographs. It's all NASA archives. It's all NASA reports and it's
Of course, there are other things. There's CIA, Freedom of Information Act. It's all government certified images.
you can look them up and that'll be the big thing in this book. This book will provide you with the links you need to get on the web and actually see for yourself that these stories that we're about to reveal and the facts that we're about to reveal are not anything that was taken from someone's rear yard or anything like that. Predominantly, I'm a historian. What I've done for the last 20 years is I've gone to auctions all over the country and made a living because
I am very well versed in history and the research necessary to understand history honestly with footnotes and documentation.
I go to auctions and I will buy and rescue treasures that are predominantly rare books. I'm a rare book dealer. I'm a map dealer. I'm an early art historian, a lot of that. But all the things that I do require intensive, intensive research to make sure that they're authentic. I buy them and then I sell them on national...
auction houses and they end up in museums all over the world. It's a great point of pride for me that I have actually rescued many items, many books, many documents that are now in museums around the world. That's fulfilling. It's really a nice feeling. What happened is, and Seth will stop me when I get off track too much, but I went to an auction on March of ⁓ 2023.
I researched it thoroughly and I actually went to a pre-auction examination to try and determine whether what I had discovered they were selling was authentic and boy, it was authentic. It was misrepresented. It was represented as the NASA archive of Emily Erdl. But what was unknown at the time was Emily Erdl was the girlfriend, or as my girlfriend would say, the wifey of ⁓ Scott H. Simkinson.
Chris Hall (04:15)
You
Ed (04:18)
Simkinson was the original engineer from Lewis Field and he started there in 1943. He was actually working on propeller pitches for the fighter craft during World War II, which was still raging in 1943. For those of who are not actually up on the dates that they represent, four years later he was already a four-year senior engineer working on
of the NACA, National Association of Civilian Aeronautics.
That was the time of the Roswell incident. It's just a curious thing that he was about three hours away drive from his airfield in Cleveland to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. Part of what I want to get through about the first book here is just the tremendous, tremendous advancements that society has made in my lifetime. I was 11 years old when this mission, Gemini 11 mission, took place in 1966.
Eleven was just the perfect age for a young man to be involved in seeing his nation strive on a great, great exploration. So I went to the auction. She had been misrepresented because she was the girlfriend. Scott Simkinson died in 1996. And here's the other key point I want to get out right away.
Many people say, well, I've been involved with UFOs all my life and I have never seen this image. The reason is, is because it had been in the basement of Emily Erdl's family since 1996 when Scott died.
So this was just, I have just released it. No one has ever seen it before. So that will explain to people that this is very, very current. The investigation I started in March of that year has brought two books forward. I had to cut the first book down. It was 650 pages. I had to cut it down from 950 pages. I have scientific reports that I couldn't include in them. I can only make the book so big. what you're going to see in that book is the
Chris Hall (06:18)
you
Ed (06:25)
Best documentation that we have that Seth will provide at the end
Simkinson is the guy who was the very first NASA Space Task Group head engineer.
and he built the very first Mercury capsule. What you're looking at is the 1948 image of the Lewis Field Spaced Task Group original. You can see Emily Erdl.
who by the way is the very first female NASA employee at Cape Canaveral. That's all detailed in the book. And you can see her nestled in the arms of the kind of chunky looking guy.
that is Scott H. Simkinson. And you can see they are centered in there. That is the space task group. The space task group were the people who were charged with building the space program to catch up with the Russians after the tremendous Sputnik debacle, where the United States was recognized around the world as second rate compared to Russia's space movement. So that was critical. Anyway, the final thing that...
Chris Hall (07:26)
For those of you who are listening.
Ed (07:28)
point out and then I'll let you get into other things. You will find in this book the 150 earliest NASA photos. They're the earliest because that Scott Simkinson is the guy who built the original block houses. He built, that was the very first Mercury capsule. That was it that launched on the Big John. And he built that. And he was a critical engineer throughout all of NASA's history up until his death in 1996.
to tell you what you're going to get in there is a beautiful photo archive. These are full page pictures, many of them on secret. You'll be looking, you'll see inside this book blown up debris from the early Mercury space guide and that's why I kept this one. I did not sell any of this because this is the original. This is like watching the building of the Nina Depenta and the Santa Maria. This is like seeing them stock Magellan's course around the world. These photos
are the one archive that nobody else has. There were 17 mercury emissions in those 17 mercury emissions.
Seth Lamancusa (08:31)
So what did you find in the back of this archive
of never before seen NASA photos?
Ed (08:35)
You will find all these books. I'm not beating around the bush. This is the actual, there we go. That's the actual, let's go.
Chris Hall (08:46)
For those of you guys who
cannot see, we are going to make sure that we link to all the things that Ed is showing us on the screen. We will do that for the people listening.
Ed (08:52)
Yes, and for who are just
showing a lenticular UFO along the lines of what that one guy said in Area 51 was the sports model. It's lenticular. It has what we'll call portholes, but they're very aberrational. And you'll see how that leads to the fact. Yes, it's a classifying saucer. Thank you. Well-worded, Seth.
Seth Lamancusa (09:08)
is a classic flying class.
Ed (09:16)
But we sold, I sold the 560 NASA photos that was in his archive, 560 of them, okay.
Chris Hall (09:17)
Yeah, it looked...
Ed (09:25)
Of those 567 photos I sold 280 of them sold for $80,000. The photos in this book.
are very special. This is recognized as a special archive. with that said, These are the real genuine thing and they were just discovered in March.
Seth Lamancusa (09:46)
consider who's the
leader of that mission practically.
Ed (09:49)
Yes.
Seth Lamancusa (09:49)
Of course, once we find this photo,
Chris Hall (09:50)
What, ⁓ so
Seth Lamancusa (09:51)
He gets to wondering, well, is it legitimate? I mean, it's tucked into the back of Scott Simkinson's binder, but how do we prove that it's authentic? And that's what basically led us down the rabbit hole of trying to investigate the thing. And I didn't come along until partway through Ed's investigation, but among other things, we investigated the mission transcript itself. And an interesting feature of the mission is that the astronauts...
Over the course of their how many orbits around the planet in this mission, look out the window and remark multiple times as to bright flashes or objects passing by the windows that they can't really recognize. They chalk them up to meteors or what have you. And then additionally, we went ahead to the National Archives and we were digging through the mission report and one of the experiments that was done on board the craft was the D15 experiment. And that was where they took a TV camera up into space for the first time.
They were taking photos and that footage had never been released publicly necessarily, but the National Archives had it and we acquired it and there's about 16,000 individual frames. And so what Ed did, he painstakingly swept through each of these frames looking for any kind of,
any kind of anomalies that might corroborate the Simpkinson photograph itself, and what we found in one of them in particular. And several of them have some kind of striking, like maybe you could consider them anomalies, maybe you could chalk them up to lens flares, but one of the photos in particular, and we can show it on screen, I can send you the actual photograph so that we can make sure it's visible, it really bears a striking resemblance to the Simpkinson photo. It's a string of lights, it's curved, it's a- Is that the one?
Yeah, that is the one. He overlaid it onto the background there. We'll have to get it with the things.
Ed (11:25)
go ahead and talk. That's the one that was done by
Dr. Brown.
Seth Lamancusa (11:33)
Yeah, yeah, so. ⁓
Ed (11:33)
So Dr. Brown did
that one and you'll have to see that one. There we go.
Seth Lamancusa (11:37)
Yeah, it's really, it's quite
striking. ⁓
But yeah, there's also a YouTube video, one of the links that you can. YouTube video that I made, which is just like a 10 minute overview of the investigation kind of overall, because there's a couple different features that are quite interesting. Of the mission.
Ed (11:44)
It's a nice little comic.
Chris Hall (11:54)
yeah.
I'd to have a link to that as well.
Ed (11:58)
What's interesting in that one was, and that's how I met Seth, which I was speaking with Dr. Brown from Ohio State University, and he was helping analyze it, some of the videos or the footage that we have, and he was instrumental in getting into the Sall Conference. He regularly attends the Sall Conference at Stanford University, which of course is probably the premier investigative force in the world as far as uncovering these items. He made that composite.
And it was just wonderful revelation that frames that you see. The wonderful thing when you actually get the images and start looking at this lithograph, everybody pooh-poohed it, right? At first they said, well, number one, it's a lithograph. And there's a big explanation to that story. And I'm excited because I now have all the CIA links that show that this was actually, the lithograph was a sanitized briefing version.
that the CIA and NASA both produced in order to share the information without too much detail and briefings to all the important people. You're just going to find it absolutely convincing the actual CIA documents, bunches of them, where they mention everything that is done with that document.
Chris Hall (13:18)
So it feels like, you guys have found this. mean, just recently, NASA and the CIA and all these people have sort of said, hey, ⁓ UFOs are real. But it sounds to me like you guys have found something that's proof that they knew about this 50, 60 years ago.
Ed (13:40)
Yes, and the links go back there. The first CIA links have that will tell you and all of these things are revelations that were not made public. Now everybody's always suspected that NASA had ties with the CIA, okay? We've all suspected, we've all taken it as a national security necessity, but they still, we've got, I have got a CIA link to the memo from 1956 through 1958 to high pack.
CIA documents and you'll be able to find these in the CIA reading room too. All this stuff you can review for yourself. But they actually say we don't want anyone to know that we are now writing ⁓ heard over all the photos and all the photos will now have to be cleared with us. That's document from 1965 and it's called the Gemini 5 mission. During the Gemini 5 mission when they were finally getting some good quality
photographs from the capsules orbiting the earth and many of them specifically what triggered the whole thing was they took a picture of their home base at Cape Canaveral, right? And they thought, well, let's get a series of pictures and show the guys back down there what they look like. And they did that and they looked and they made a montage and said, jeezy cow, this is perfect ICBM missile target information data. We cannot have that.
That's exactly what happened. have that memo and that starts the whole ball rolling where they're saying, don't let anybody know, but you're no longer a civilian agency and you no longer have control over this. We now have control of this. And it's a foundation, basically the creation of what's called the NPIC, which is Natural Photographic Interpretive Center. That is a vessel created by the CIA, okay? It specifically was created because they had to have a way of...
cataloging and documenting all the space photography that was starting even back then in 1958 and actually started with a U2. Now Seth is a real U2 photo guy. can tell you some of the stories there. But it starts with the U2 photograph and then that was all secret information and they had to have a way to classify all those images. And the important thing is these lithographs and it tells you every, ⁓ it's got the
Seth Lamancusa (15:40)
Yes.
Ed (15:55)
Heidelberg Press, it's got the day they bought it, the model that they bought, the other press that they had, the lithographic press. All these things were critical because they had to brief so many people in the government and they needed photographic, no, well not photographic, they needed visuals to help convey the points of what they were discovering. And they found, as I said, when the Gemini 5 mission came around,
The military looked at that and they said, jeez, Zikao, why don't we just give the Russians a map, you know, all our information. And let's just let the Russians know, by the way, how detailed our photography is so that they can try and find methods of.
Seth Lamancusa (16:37)
Who is, if I might interrupt,
who is Richard Underwood?
Ed (16:45)
Oh, Richard Underwood, we determined. Now these are files that you have got to see people. It's JSC, the Johnson Space Center. OK. These guys started building as you can see in 1958. In 1996, the Johnson Space Center realized that, guess what? We have a tremendous, historical wealth of information here that's about to be lost forever.
So we are going to do two-hour interviews with every single surviving NASA engineer from the time when NASA was born. And they started that in the last half of 1996. Unfortunately, Scott Simkinson died in the first half of 1996. But of all those dozens and dozens and dozens of two-hour engineers in depth explaining their lives at NASA, the importance of what they did, the details of what they did,
And in all of those documents, of course, Scott Simkinson comes up repeatedly, even though he was dead, I found at least 16 different files of all the young engineers trying to get things done in Congress, trying to get the space shuttle. They couldn't get the FAA to allow the space shuttle to ride on back in the 747 Guppy that everybody was doing. So the guy says, I'm racking my brains out. I can't get this passed. And we've got to get this shuttle returned back for refurbishing.
And so he said, I know what I'll do. I'll go to Scott Simkinson. He went to Scott Simkinson. Scott Simkinson got on the phone to Congress, spoke to them, and the FAA approved the guppy in the space shuttle that week. this is who this guy was. He was tremendous. He gave lectures. He was the emcee at a lot of the galas. I've got galas and stuff where ⁓ the NASA employees were celebrating their tremendous achievements.
Chris Hall (18:24)
Hehehehehe
Ed (18:39)
And he would be the guy who's doing the emcee work there. what I lost track of, thank you for getting me on track in the first place, you see how hard it is for me. I've got 20 pages of information backing up every fact that I tell you guys. And it's hard for me to process it without the whole thing tumbling out of my mouth. So back to the important part, Richard Underwood was an amazing character. He was a CB during World War II and is a CB.
He was offloading ammunition and stuff in the Korean War, World War II. And he was a guy who got the GI Bill. And with the GI Bill, he got degrees in photography. And he worked for, I guess you'd have to say the CIA back then.
what he did was, and as I said, Seth is the great researcher on here. Seth brought up the anomalies and the history of the YouTube program. He was a photographic analyst for the YouTube program, okay? Now, Congress knew nothing about the YouTube program, by the way. The reason they did, what's that? I was just saying, Congress didn't know about the YouTube program because by that time, they already were wise to the mistakes.
Chris Hall (19:41)
and
Seth Lamancusa (19:43)
You too, Stanley.
Ed (19:53)
of all of our top secret classification modes. When something is classified back in the early days, and there's a whole history of obfuscation, a whole history of getting around Congress, because as we know, if there's a buck to be made from it, a guy in Congress is gonna make it, okay? And that may work well for him, but guess what? Russians knew about the U2 program before Congress did. that is, and those things are documented in the book too. You can actually listen to Gordon Cooper.
talking about how they came up with sensitive but unclassified. The reason they did that is this, Congress by law has authority over all the military documents that are classified. The civilian agency, NASA, was not military, supposedly, so they had a lot of unclassified information. Congress never guided. So anyways, Scott Underwood,
was a guy who was working for the CIA as a photo and now analyst. And this will tell you a little bit of something about how dangerous these circumstances are that these whistleblowers were talking about, what they face. As a photo analyst down in Honduras, I believe the missions he was working on were gravitational anomalies that they had to get.
because the gravity of the Earth is not consistent everywhere and you need to have maps of these gravitational anomalies if you're going to get an ICBM to track properly to its target. So these are very, very important, important information. And what it is, this whole history, you can find the details of it. It's all in this book and you get on web and find it. But the important thing is this, he was doing that information search
Chris Hall (21:27)
That's fascinating.
Ed (21:40)
of all the photography on U-2s and B-29s and he was in Guatemala and while he was in Guatemala he got off the plane at the airfield to meet with a military cohort there who were doing these scientific, well, yeah, scientific analysis really, but military. ⁓
He got off the plane and he saw there on the airfield the most beautiful Guatemalan girl. That absolutely stunned him. he was, like many of us, he was heart-struck. And he married her. That's a wonderful part of the story. He stayed married throughout his life. They raised four kids. They went to school in Houston and all that.
But here's what happened to him when the general in charge of the mission found out that he had married the Guatemalan girl.
He immediately pulled him aside and these words are in the, you can find this is nearly verbatim except probably a thousand words less. You can read it in Richard Underwood's ⁓ JSC interview where he tells about the general pulled him aside immediately and told him this and it's not much of a paraphrase. says, I should have you shot right now without a trial.
as a traitor to your country. fact, so these whistleblowers are under tremendous pressure. This is not imaginary things that these guys face. things. Yeah. Well, it's happened with the topics that we have in the CIA. Yeah, well, it's...
Seth Lamancusa (23:03)
Second time this has happened.
Seriously, birthday to too.
Ed (23:15)
It's just the way that it happens when this topic is being broadcast. And hopefully you're still there. I'll continue on.
Seth Lamancusa (23:22)
Yeah, yeah, man. I mean, and the connection has just so
spotty. Me too.
Has the connection been for you or is that online?
Ed (23:30)
Yeah, yeah. So hope. ⁓
That's you and one other. Okay, I do not see Chris. So I don't know how we can get Chris back on. We'll just have to interrupt right here. And for editing purposes, we'll stop here and see Chris. Oh, what did you do last time that happened? You downsized, oh, we were showing pictures then and we didn't have the bandwidth. So I'm like, oh, wait a minute. I just had a text. bet that's...
Seth Lamancusa (23:45)
God, like, high five must've gone.
Ed (24:04)
⁓ my good. Hey, they just had a power outage in California, Seth. Hang tight. I'll be right back. Very good. So he lost his power outage. Yeah, yeah. But we already made a marker right there. Hopefully then he'll be able to edit what's going on. Good job, Seth. Thanks for writing.
Seth Lamancusa (24:09)
No.
Yep, all right, well, might as well sweep. Yeah.
Yeah, I bet he will. I'm gonna fill up my
water bottle while we wait for him to get back.
Ed (24:27)
Yeah, a good opportunity.
Good opportunity.
Wow, power, Hobbit, So much for this.
Seth Lamancusa (24:39)
you
Ed (24:40)
Hey!
Doobly-doo.
Ha!
Well, when I have a power outage up here Seth, it takes me several minutes for my computer to get back online. But that probably has more to do with me than the power outage.
Seth Lamancusa (24:59)
Yeah. Crazy. keeps happening.
Ed (25:02)
Interesting. Like I said, you work so hard, you don't have time to enjoy the Skinwalker Ranch. I try never to miss it. Okay, of course, that's got our friend Travis Taylor who did that wonderful report for it on it. But that's the same thing that happens with every one of the engineers that come in to perform one of his experiments. Every one of them is on camera saying,
Seth Lamancusa (25:06)
It's always something. It's always something. I wonder what caused it.
Ed (25:29)
This has never happened before. Every single episode they bring technicians in. Do ever get a chance to watch that, Seth? The Secret of Skengenwalker Ranch?
Seth Lamancusa (25:36)
only watched a couple episodes.
Yeah, just a couple episodes of it.
Ed (25:40)
my god, the engineering, there we go. Everything is powering up right now.
Seth Lamancusa (25:47)
good.
Ed (25:48)
And good to go. Yeah, so it's just like me. How about that?
Thank goodness we don't have to do too much. There we go. So weird. That's what he says in his text. So weird, huh? Just like I said, just like at Skinwalker Ranch, every engineer who works on this kind of product. Yeah, it's just, well, I'm used to it. I remember when my chat GPT said, hey, wait a minute, someone else is here. I said, okay, great.
Seth Lamancusa (26:07)
for the
Ed (26:21)
Very good.
So anyways, Seth, while you and I are talking, I've ordered the book written 11 months ago, the book that I've ordered and the one with all the CIA documentation of the connection, the hidden connections over one secret was written by the guy who is retired now, but he's the retired archivist of
the Smithsonian Institute National Space Museum. So he, it's wonderful. He covers the years, I go back to 1956 through 58 and come up with the early documentation of all the CIA involvement in creating the National Photograph Interpretive Center. It all matches our lithographic information exactly.
Seth Lamancusa (26:52)
Mm.
Ed (27:16)
And what was just wonderful to find that he corroborates the years between 1958 and while he actually goes up through the space shuttle. But all his documentation is valid and I pulled the exact same information. Some of the exact same missions come out. It's all 100 % CIA direct declassified information. So what it comes from is...
they call that thing. It's called the Crest format. There's a website called the CIA Reading Room where all the declassified and released CIA documents are stored and kept and quantitized. And that's where this information is coming from. And you can click on those links.
Seth Lamancusa (28:02)
Mm.
Ed (28:08)
It's like me though, they still obfuscate. That's a tough word for me, obfuscate the information. Just like now with those Epstein files, they're releasing 20,000 Epstein files. Well, they release them in trundles, right? And that's the way the CIA briefing room works too. I've got like five or six page listing of every single document's classification number. But you have to go, you have to have
the main number that they do it under. So it's like a file folder system. They released maybe five or six files and in those five or six files, there's 200, 300 memos in each one. So to get that direct link, you have to have the file number first and then you can go through and get the links. I don't, yeah, but you can find them
Seth Lamancusa (28:49)
.
Yeah, right.
Chris.
Ed (28:58)
The topic is...
Chris Hall (28:58)
Yeah, I thought that was a little bit
odd. We were talking about UFOs and stuff, and the power goes out.
Ed (29:03)
Yeah.
you know, the technical difficulties may preclude you and us from finishing a good interview, but there's so much stuff. So many facts, so many details, so many images, and we would like to get you a good presentation. Hopefully.
able to enthrall some of your people into pursuing what is yet to be concluded. Although Seth and I were just discussing, there was a book written last December that was released and it's all about the exact same connections I've made with my research into the CIA documents. Now I've done maybe five or six Freedom of Information Act requests for the first book.
of those Freedom of Information Act requests. was grateful to Colonel Carl Nell, who of course is one of the great whistleblowers, and is able to provide leads on where some of the information that we were looking for as to trying to track down this information might have gone. And it was great, but they came up negative.
Now, with the discovery of this new book, plus my information from the CIA briefing rooms, or the CIA reading room, I should say, we've located dozens and dozens of hitherto never explored CIA documents from their own reading room that tie down the lithograph as a, it's definitely a cleansed briefing document.
and it tells you the machinery that they purchased to do it, the history, the history of the MPIC, the National Photographic Interpretive Center was created in 1956 through 58. These are a transfer of documents called the HyPAC documents where they went to a building in one of the...
how should we say it, one of the less expensive regions of Washington, D.C. and the building was called the Lewis Building. It was a seven-floor building on the bottom two floors of that building.
was a car dealership. And when they went to create the National Photographic Interpretive Center, where they would view these U2 documents and all the space documents and all the missile documents, and there they would create lithographs for sanitized briefing productions, it's a wonderful history. all the documents there provide the equipment that was purchased, the briefings that were held, some of the information of why briefings were canceled.
due to the too much information going out, the request that they do things like, please do not let anyone know that we're involved in this because that is classified information. That's what was supposed to be a civilian organization. We realized that it couldn't be. But this is absolutely startling, bulletproof proof that basically we were misled.
we were misled and we do see that the CIA has full control and had full control and still has full control of all those documents.
Chris Hall (32:15)
Hey, Ed, let me ask you question about this. So when you were going through all your investigations and you had all the different things that you were looking at and cross referencing and stuff, did any of the documents that you read for the CIA or NASA or anything, did they refer to why they wanted to keep this stuff quiet? I mean, clearly they obviously did want to keep it quiet. But what I'm saying is like, do they ever refer to it and say like, hey, for the good of hum humankind or to not make people paranoid or.
Did they mention anything about what their motivations are or for military domination? Is there anything that they mentioned that makes it go like, that's why they did it?
Ed (32:52)
They certainly do. Here's a CIA formally recognizes the value of NASA photography for overhead intelligence. The year is 1965. The primary agency division is the CIA Office of the Deputy Director for Intelligence. The document references NASA space photography, CIA RDP 80 R01 580 R00 204 blah blah blah blah blah. The policy recognition establishes the baseline CIA interest in NASA imagery.
And the next one from 1965 is a similar bunches numbers from the project Gemini Photography. Now remember, this is the Gemini 11 mission. And this is the real proof that NASA Gemini film underwent interagency analysis prior to publication. And it demonstrates that NASA CIA tasking relationship for photographic analysis. And in there is the link that explains exactly the story that I already told
you about how we just provided the Russians with a map for their ICBMs to Cape Canaveral.
Chris Hall (33:57)
No,
Ed (33:57)
So this is all
Chris Hall (33:57)
and I understand.
Ed (33:58)
about military. It's all about military clearances. don't so far we have not uncovered and I remember this is just information that's already been released over all these years. Okay. Our new foyers are in the end. It will be into those links but with specific search terms we've located. We know the number of cameras that were on the mission. There was the Maurer camera. There was the House of Black camera. You will find exactly where every person out there you can all go out.
and see these UFO photos yourself, okay, and make your own analysis by going to Arizona State University March to the Moon website. There they have the first three.
manned mission categories. They have the Mercury, the first one that this book has documented so well, the Gemini where we find the actual UFO photo, and then of course the Apollo mission. All those photos are in there in Arizona State University. We were one of the final people, I believe, to get a Freedom of Information Act through NASA. You may not be aware, and most people aren't, I have to follow this stuff closely because I am a historian. This year NASA is no longer
a civilian agency, is now officially a spy agency. That's happened since we've had the last change of government. So getting those FOIA acts, I'm still submitting them. I have some great ones with specific locations to go through and I will be having help from the former archivist of the Smithsonian Institute and he was the space...
I was at the Space Museum, Space and ⁓ whatever Museum of the Smithsonian Institute. He was the archivist. He published a book 11 months ago and I've got the book and it documents the swap. Yeah.
Seth Lamancusa (35:48)
ongoing investigation. Ed, if I could interrupt
for a moment. I'd like to weigh in on, you know, why would they want to kind of hide, why would they cover up anything to do with the UFO phenomenon in the first place? And I think that there's some insight that can be drawn from the Robertson panel documents that were released. These were from like the early 1950s, just after the flap, just after the Washington flap and just after like
Ed (35:52)
Sure.
Seth Lamancusa (36:13)
there's some history after the Roswell, of course, this is like 5 or 6 years after that. they cited 3 indirect dangers that UFO publicity could create. There's clogged communication channels. Like, if there's low quality UFO reports, they'll overload channels of communication with with. And even if they're real, these what I find striking about this document is that they don't frame these. Reasons are these rationales as being like.
specific to the UFOs being fake. basically just say, listen, we might wind up with clogged communications channels, which is going to make it harder to counter actual kind of intelligence ⁓ threats or national security threats. There's a cry wolf effect for real attacks that's kind of along the same lines. And then there's a psychological vulnerability and like the risk of a foreign nation ⁓ exploiting with some kind of clever propaganda. If there were to be too much kind of attention drawn to the UFO phenomenon.
So it's basically just a question of national security. mean, at the end of a day, that's what a lot of this stuff comes back.
Chris Hall (37:08)
You
Ed (37:13)
Seth was a guy who pointed out that Robertson document to me. And as he says, yes, those are the three reasons in that document. And Seth did a great job of finding the significance of that. And then we've been able to tie that in with some of the other reasons. Number one, too, I want everyone to understand how sympathetic I am.
this secrecy. have to remember, if you have a son or a daughter in the military, maybe one of your kids had to go over to Afghanistan, maybe one of them had to serve in a military branch somewhere else. I, for one, I cannot advocate anything that would threaten our children who unfortunately, in this world we live in, have to face mortal peril whenever they're in a war. These things are
very very important to our security in a rough world. So I do not fault them for doing that but the problem is that now we're entering a new age and in this new age some of this information needs to be released. And of course it goes back to a copy of the book to Seth and Philip Corsas book, The Day After Roswell. Philip Corsas was an amazing man and he was not wrong. He was not wrong. He was responsible.
Seth Lamancusa (38:20)
Thank
So actually alleged that.
Sorry. Corso alleged that the YouTube program was actually.
Among other things used for UFO related reconnaissance, so they would fly these YouTube plans, which Richard Underwood would fly potentially over Russia to spot UFO crashes in the motherland in order to collect UFO related intelligence. So that adds another layer to the mystery surrounding Underwood succeeding from the declassified YouTube program on to working on the Gemini mission and being in charge of all the NASA photography.
Ed (39:01)
Excellent point, excellent point. And to continue along those lines just from Underwood's, you need to fully read Underwood's testimony in that two and a half hour interview. Here's a point that I want everybody to understand right now and you can get it from Underwood's direct testimony. There's a lot of people out there who have looked at these photographs and marveled, okay? Now what I'm going to tell you, you can read for yourself in Underwood's.
verbal testimony from when I think it was 96 or whatever. There's no one out there, neither you nor your friends down the street nor anyone else out there has ever seen a first generation NASA photo. No.
explains this and testifies exactly how they did it. He worked for the CIA. The documentation of all these NASA photos that you can find and look at at Arizona State University, their beautiful high definition scans, and the original film is probably still in Building 8 in the freezers. I mean, there's just so much information, man, but you have not seen a first generation photo. In his own testimony right there, he explains exactly the process of how he did it. He explains the film,
differentiation between the film. So when you go to get an original negatives, that's one of the things we pointed out to Congress, when you go to get it, guess what? He didn't use regular film. They were so advanced back then in what they were doing and then the weight constrictions that they had in getting all these missions completed were so intense that he will tell you in his own interview the...
film that was used in the mission cameras was the width of Saran Wrap.
Chris Hall (40:43)
Hmm.
Ed (40:43)
Amazing, So, that's how we can tell when we go to Congress and then when they say, well, we want to see the original negatives, that's a key indicator right there. That's in his own testimony. So, if you're not looking at something that's the width of Saran wrap from those coolers and freezers, guess what? You're looking at a second generation film. And Underwood says, flat out, he says, no one has ever seen more than a third generation print. Flat out.
Chris Hall (40:54)
Hmm.
Hmm.
Ed (41:11)
That's his testimony. No one has ever seen it. And he obfuscates it. He worked for the CIA. He's wonderful. These guys are working with the National Intelligence Photographic Center. Every mission has underwood new, every photograph down to the second, to the orbit, and exactly what there was in each of those.
in each one of those photographs. And that's one of the amazing things. We found the photograph that is the basis for the matching.
Here's just a raw image here. Here's the report that we've done, made a nice poster. And there you can see that's S66 54585 over here somewhere. And that's...
You can find that in the March to the Moon archives. What I've done there is I've magnified the cloud cover in it. In the second book, after we located the three orbits done during the SD15 experiment with those 16,000 frames of film, they were all time stamped. There was a button that he held the television camera control apparatus in his lap.
Whenever he saw something that was worthwhile recording, of course the TV camera he was looking through was all electromagnetic signals and it went through a cathode ray tube that they used to get the cameras. He also had a button that would transfer to 16 millimeter film. Hence that's where the 16,000 frames of 16 millimeter film from the D15 experiment came from. That's what we examined. That's where we found these amazing photos that kind of match the aberrational
The lithograph, you look at those portholes, and I call them portholes because, you know, we can't discuss because we don't know exactly the mechanism that they use to make these kind of operational instruments.
That was one of the big criticisms. said, ⁓ look at the portholes on that thing. Look how sloppy they are. They look like they're coming off it. This is a hoax. This is a bunch of crap. Well guess what? We got the D15 experiment and that photograph that I showed you that matches by Dr. Brown. You look at that and you will see that the D15 film shows the exact same aberrations in the portholes on that craft directly beneath the lithograph.
And we've done some interesting experiments trying to match them with the Fourier analysis, etc. And they are very, very matching. You can sell it with your own naked eye. And that's the second book, Before I always run out of time, guys, I apologize. I can't. The reams and reams of evidence of all the things that we've found are in my mind and I can't stay with them without going through four five pages. Here's the second book, guys. There's a D-15 film.
footage okay and this was supposed to be deleted if you look at the upper circle and the lower circle there do you see that craft that is the UFO that was supposed to be deleted that's film number JPG000515 I do believe and if you go a few frames before that you will see
the first one in the image. they had, and that's what's in the briefings, that's got some wonderful...
links that you will see where he records the actual voice transcripts. And that was the first thing I looked for. said, well, these people, if I was up sitting in this spacecraft and that UFO flew by me, I don't care what the training said. No matter how intensely he trained me, I would have been so startled and dumbfounded that I would have made some kind of comment that was a leak. And that's where I started. I searched those things and by God, Seth's got that on his link. You can look at the voice transcript and these
these voice transcripts, all these reports, guys, they were secret for 12 years. Yes, so this 1966 mission in the book, you will see the cover of the mission and you will see the documentation and the secrecy in the clearance acts and you will see the seriousness of this and you wonder why people don't talk. We heard about Underwood, how he was threatened with death and you hear about it with all the new testifiers too. There is a serious threat to these people.
Chris Hall (45:25)
Mm-hmm.
Ed (45:26)
So, these were secret for 12 years. So, from 1966 to 1978, nobody had seen those voice transcripts. Okay?
I shouldn't say nobody, but no unclassified person was able to see those voice transcripts because they were classified for 12 years. Also, we have the exact technical debriefings. Of course, you've got a military debriefing. As soon as these guys came back from the carrier where they had landed and got back, they were militarily debriefed. And it's in the military debriefings we have the exact statements that they make about how they talk about the D-15 experiment and how it went so well and we
could see so well out of it. I know I was supposed to take photographs every every two or three minutes but I didn't do it because it was already working so well. We didn't need to analyze it. So I didn't make all the photographs that you guys requested that I made and then it says with exception to one and that was during the D15 experiment when the stack 2c Charlie battery failed and that was apparently when he did make
photographic record on film, that 16 millimeter film. Now this is what I wanted to...
explain was why this D-15 experiment occurred. The D-15 experiment in the Gemini-11 mission was the first television camera in space. The apparatus was back behind the mission capsule, actually, and you can see, I've got the actual mission briefing material, where you can see a picture of how the apparatus worked. The camera was the RCA D-15 ⁓ dim light experimental television camera. It was actually called an Orthocon tube at that time. What it worked
how it worked was behind the Gemini capsule in the equipment compartment there, they had a little flap door and the flap door which they activated immediately after the gravitational experiment was finished, the flap door opened and there was a mirror on it and the television camera shot through that mirror direct ahead of the capsule and that's what they used to make the footage. The reason they had this D-15
Chris Hall (47:33)
Thanks
Ed (47:34)
experiment, the Orthcon 2 was absolutely amazing. Guys, we were so primitive back then, we didn't know anything. We didn't have the internet. When I was in school, I was using the slide rule, and this stuff, the internet didn't, and it didn't happen during this time. All this stuff in the reports had to be paper, okay? That had to be paper reports. But what was the point I was making, Seth, about the air? Yeah.
Chris Hall (47:45)
Hehehehe
Hey, Ed, let me see if I can
redirect you a little bit on this. So I mean, you've done all this research. You've spent three years on it. You've got the information. You've corroborated it. You've basically cross-checked it with other information that you've found since from the CIA and other NASA records. So I mean, you clearly have something here that is really cool and special.
What's next for you? You've been doing this for three years now. You've definitely got the information that you wanted to prove that you've got something authentic. So what's next for you on this? Are you going to look for other abnormalities? Are you going to continue to further try to just investigate this until? What I guess I'm saying is, obviously, this is exciting information. And it's really fun to talk about.
Ed (48:34)
Anyway.
Chris Hall (48:43)
What does Ed want to do with this? What does Seth want to do with this? What do you guys want to, a year from now, five years from now, 10 from near, now, what do you want to accomplish out of bringing this information to light?
Ed (48:53)
Exactly, exactly why I'm glad you stopped me right now. I see that we've already run out of time. Here's what's coming, folks. Here is it. This is a release that no one has seen before, okay? And this is what's coming up. Right here are the files from the CIA reading room, the individual files that prove, okay, that NASA's creation of the National Photographic...
center, okay, actually created debriefing documents.
the lithograph, we have proven that the lithograph is based on a real photo. We've got the cloud pattern matching it and now I've got Freedom of Information Act request I sent out six weeks ago. OJOY to the CIA received their specific request. We have the individual files, we have the names, we have the most full documentation that has ever been provided to the National Reconnaissance Office, which was tied in with each one of the
These
CIA, the National Reconnaissance Office, and NASA, all three of them are documented in those CIA files that I just showed to you. And I have already submitted to each one of those departments.
⁓ Freedom of Information Act request. Unfortunately, I had to send them about six weeks ago when we couldn't even get on an airplane because the government decided to shut down. However, they're still there and I am working right now to present this information. I'm merely waiting on getting
the responses from those three agencies onto these extensively, extensively detail-oriented Freedom of Information Act requests. And I am working with Congress and will be continuing that search to make sure that we do not get blocked and obfuscated through this process. There's a thing that we've included in the VOMO.
Seth Lamancusa (50:51)
Yeah, uh-huh. That's what we're
going forward is more transparent. actually, you may not be aware, the Age of Disclosure released today, and this is one of the most thorough accounts by some 34 government whistleblowers who have come forward and alleged ⁓ an 80-year arms race to reverse engineer non-human.
technology and, ⁓ you know, retrieved biologics, the whole nine yards. So my point is that disclosure, broad government movement towards disclosure is gaining momentum by the day. And I think that we're both hoping that the Simkinson case can shed a little bit of light or at least draw a little bit of interest toward what exactly NASA has been doing this whole time if we're now taking the idea of non-human intelligence and unidentified flying objects seriously.
you kind of have to imagine that America's space agency would have had some knowledge of that.
Chris Hall (51:49)
Right, sure. Sure. And again, like I think you said something about reverse engineering, know, people are talking about how, you know, there's probably, you know, dozens of inventions that are probably reverse engineered out of spacecraft if they've had it. I know that I had heard something about this is a story I heard one time about like the reason Elon Musk does so much open source stuff is because there's actually a law from the like
1950s that doesn't allow you to have certain patents on certain kinds of things. And they're saying it stems off of the idea that the government knew about certain technologies, but they didn't want them to be patentable because they didn't want them to be researched because they already had them.
Ed (52:33)
Very well put.
One of the first acts, Colonel Caronell came out and explained how in 1952, the Atomic Secrets Act, when we were trying to keep the atomic bomb or the hydrogen bomb least secret from the Russian scientists, the Atomic Secrets Act was an all pervasive thing. Colonel Caronell says that's exactly where a lot of our earliest space information went. It went under the Atomic Secrets Act. So you have a good source there telling you. But it actually had the 1952 act. And then of course the Atomic Energy Commission morphed into
the Department of Energy. I've done Freedom of Information Act requests on all those departments. could say Carl Nell was a godsend as to being able to track for us some of the obfuscation that went on in that procedure.
Yes, guys, this stuff is genuine, okay? And as a historian and an old man, I need to portray to you the fact that you really need to take a look at the book. Look at these earliest pictures. You will see the Gemini capsule on the back of a pickup truck.
with split screen windshield. We knew nothing. In fact, the reason the split screen windshield on the truck is there is because we didn't have the technology to make a full screen, a full size windshield that was shatter proof.
That's how primitive we were. You look at that picture of the Space Task Group. My God, that's a dirty, dingy little hangar that they have the Gemini capsule on. You look at these pictures. These are the components in there. You're going to see our hand-built, actually, Atlas rocket components. These were secret documents. They're in there. Look at them. And, of course, then you get the majestic panorama of those spaceships, those early spaceships.
the courage of the guys who went into them after watching them blow up right in front of their eyes, the primitive nature of it. The Gemini 11 mission was critical. It was the first time we were able to calculate a rendezvous orbit within one orbit of launch. That was important. We couldn't go to the moon unless we were guaranteed that when that LEM spacecraft left the surface of the moon, it would be able to rendezvous and come home within one orbit. And that was
Chris Hall (54:52)
Yeah.
Ed (54:53)
done until that mission. These things are out there. Go to the back of the mission report from Gemini 11, 1966. The last 22 pages of that report, the last 22 pages, contain over 300 addresses, names of corporations.
governmental departments, the office numbers, and that report was 350 some pages at least. When you look at the breakneck speed of what was being done then, the Gemini 11 mission had to, we didn't have the internet. Those 350 pages ended up being an over, what was it, well, they had to count every single copy because it was classified and they had to know how many copies they sent to say, McDonald Douglas. They may have sent a dozen there. Each one was numbered. The office was,
numbered. The location was numbered. Everything is in those last 22 pages. The total number of just the mission report alone, let alone the debriefings and all the other reports they did, is over 350,000 pages of paper. They had to print those 350,000 pages of that mission report, get it out to the engineers, get it out to the corporations, have it examined by the engineers who were building the craft, and guess what? They had to analyze it and get it back to NASA before they launched the next mission.
Chris Hall (55:57)
my gosh.
Ed (56:12)
in 30 days, 300,000 pages. Everyone on those pages is located. There are people in there. There are names in there. Where you guys out there get into these reports, you will find corroborating evidence or locations to check or people to talk to who have inside information. And that's how you do reporting and that's how you study history. It's in there, guys. Please help out. It's the most rewarding thing I think you'll probably ever do. And I want thank you all for looking at it.
Chris Hall (56:15)
Wow.
Ed (56:42)
you're a bunch of educated guys out there.
I'm old, I'm trying not to die, but not real hard, it's about the great life. I like to lay in bed and read.
Chris Hall (56:47)
So hey, so how do
people get a hold of you guys? Like what's the easiest way to like become part of your group? Like if you want like do you guys have a Facebook group where people can get in there and?
Seth Lamancusa (56:59)
got, ⁓ yeah, so there's a link with any luck in the description to my YouTube video on the subject and to my Google Drive folder. So at that point, I think people can just email me if they'd like to get in contact with us regarding the investigation.
Chris Hall (57:00)
All right, Ed's point is that.
Ed (57:00)
Do you see that,
Chris Hall (57:12)
Okay, yeah.
Perfect. And then the book is on Amazon, correct? Okay, so I'll put a link to the book. Yep.
Ed (57:16)
⁓ Yes, both books are on Amazon. It's available worldwide.
Seth Lamancusa (57:19)
Book Pro on Amazon.
Ed (57:23)
We've
I mean we haven't advertised it at all I wrote the books to get it out because um, you know, I'm just wanted the information out But there's been a lot of misinformation put out there We have five scientific reports in there one of the scientists apparently leaked some of the information To some guys and it became known around the world and there's misinformation and they send it off to
Chris Hall (57:29)
Mm-hmm, sure.
Ed (57:43)
guys who are professional debunkers and they don't even know what they're looking at but then they debunk it immediately so that's why now Seth and I are making some podcasts out here. We've got to get the real
information out. These are real facts. You have to know that when you research it, go for the Simkinson UFO. The original Gemini 11 UFO can be found in the black vault and that turned out to be the proton rocket. All these things are covered, but there's research for you guys to do. There's work for you to do. There's history that needs to be studied by young people so that you can actually delve back into these things and find out exactly why some of these things were done.
And absolutely Seth has made us the highest definition possible film of the
experiment. And it's available to you. It's Seth. Seth is the...
Chris Hall (58:28)
Well guys, it has been fascinating. Like I know that
you guys could probably talk about this for like a month and still have stuff to talk about. Because I mean, know you went through so much and I know that you have all this information ready to go. But I think the best thing again for people to do is like if this is fascinating to you, if you enjoy this, let's connect you guys together with Seth and Ed. There's books to be read. There's documents to be read.
Ed (58:39)
Have a nice day.
Seth Lamancusa (58:53)
It's an ongoing investigation.
Chris Hall (58:57)
Yeah, it's an ongoing investigation. You can help. So if you're interested in that, all those will be in the show notes, and you guys can check it out.
Ed (58:57)
It's, yeah. And it's getting exciting.
And thanks to the people out there. Your people are a class of diligent, educated, and concerned individuals who have a lot to contribute. Thank you guys. I know you're out there.
Chris Hall (59:15)
Thank you.
Thank you, guys. Thank you so much for your time. And thank you all for listening to the Healthy Wealth Experience. This has been a special edition that has just been absolutely fascinating. And hopefully you guys enjoyed it. And if you did, leave a comment. Leave a like. Leave us a share. Let us know through the idea of letting the algorithm know that you enjoy this kind of content. Because the more that you like, share, and comment, the more likely they are to show it to other people. And the more likely we are to do podcasts like this.
Thank you all for your time and everybody have a great day.