The Analytics of Improvement: Data-Driven Golf with Cory Jez | PGA Players' Podcast #18

In this episode, Aaron welcomes Cory Jez, founder of TourIQ, to discuss how advanced data is transforming the way PGA Tour professionals approach their game. Cory pulls back the curtain on the power of analytics, from building player-specific strategies and practice routines to uncovering surprising truths hidden within golf stats. Learn how the right data can sharpen practice, inform smarter decisions, and ultimately elevate performance on and off the course. If you want to understand what it means to treat your game like a business, this conversation is your first step toward a true competitive edge.

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Cory Jez: https://www.linkedin.com/in/coryjez/
TourIQ: https://www.tour-iq.com/

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Chapters
(00:25) Journey from NBA analytics to PGA Tour
(04:40) Applying analytics in golf
(09:40) The player as CEO and integrating analytics
(11:00) Structuring efficient practice and preparation
(16:20) Intentional practice and gamification
(21:10) Using ShotLink and contextual data analysis
(28:30) Designing data-driven interventions and improvement
(41:10) Course-specific preparation and practice planning
(54:20) Adapting analytics for college players and teams

Creators and Guests

Host

Aaron Goldberg

Former Professional Golfer and Private Wealth Advisor, CFP®

What is PGA Players Podcast?

Join Aaron Goldberg, CFP® - a private wealth advisor for AWM Capital and former professional golfer with the Korn Ferry and PGA tours - as he discusses weekly the most important business and financial news professional golfers should know.

Aaron Goldberg: Welcome everyone
to the PJ Players podcast.

Today we have our guest,
Corey jz, founder of Tour iq.

Tour IQ helps PJ tour professionals
use data to improve their games.

Uh, I met Corey out on
tour working with players.

Uh, I've been super impressed with how
he uses analytics not only to help guys

map out courses, but really understand
their games and how they can get better.

Uh, he's the former director
of analytics for the Utah Jazz

and Austin FC from the MLS.

Uh,

welcome Corey.

Thanks for being.

Cory Jez: Thanks very much for having me.

Excited to talk, uh, talk.

Shop a little bit, get

getting nerdy today.

Aaron Goldberg: Yeah, I, uh, I think I
know numbers well, and then I talk to

you and I feel like a kindergartner.

So, uh, I appreciate
your knowledge base here.

Um, let's, uh, you know, where I
wanna start is kind of your past data

analytics life with, uh, in the NBA and
MLS and then kinda your journey here

to, to golf and how that has helped.

Cory Jez: Yeah.

Yeah.

So it's been, um, you know, it's been
kind of a very, kind of odd career

trajectory, career arc, if you will.

Um, you know, nobody's
as, as, uh, the same.

But, you know, I graduated college back
in 20 10, 20 11, and played a little bit

in school, not very much like I was the
individ, I was the guy with the individual

asterisk by his name, uh, kind of a thing.

And, and so, um, always have loved
golf, always played competitively

still, you know, like you try to, you
make the mid am I try to make the mid

am every year, but, um, so I've always
loved and been a competitive golfer.

Uh, but when I went out after graduation,
started working as kind of a data

analyst, entry-level, data analyst,
um, kind of cut my teeth in terms of

the skills the technologies ended up
getting a master's degree, uh, all

that type of stuff, statistics, coding.

Um, kind of what has become analytics
in a lot of industries, right?

It's relevant in a lot of places, not
just sports, but, um, you know, my dad,

my dad was a college basketball coach.

I really loved basketball.

It was the other sport that I,
you know, really, really tracked

and followed both college and pro.

And so I graduated college 2011,
which is literally the year that

the movie Moneyball came out.

It's impossible to kind of tell my
story without saying the word Moneyball.

I've

tried and it's just easier
to explain it that way.

But, uh,

Aaron Goldberg: think anybody in
analytics is gonna hear, hear Moneyball

related, whether good or bad, or whether

relevant or not.

Cory Jez: yeah, and, and you know,
maybe, you know, the term analytics

can be certainly polarizing at times,
but, um, you know, at the end of the

day we're trying to take, uh, a type of
information, quantitative information,

use it to help people make decisions.

I mean, that's all, that's
all we're really trying to do.

And so, uh, for me, the, you know, the
movie came out and I started seeing

more and more in the space of like, Hey.

Linear regression and um, you
know, data visualization, all these

types of things that I was doing
professionally, albeit not in sports.

Early in my career I was starting
to see happening in sport.

You know, obviously baseball first
mover the NBA kind of, um, second

behind that and saying, well, that's
the stuff I'm really interested in.

It's what I spend all my time reading
about and watching and talking to

people about and seeing if there's a
way I could kind of join those two up.

So I was very lucky, um, kind of
five, six years into my career to

be able to kind of make that jump
from industry into, into sports.

Um, and like you said, worked with,
uh, Utah Jazz for four or five

seasons as their head of analytics.

Um, did and then spent about 18
months in the MLS with Austin FC as

well before I figured out a way to
kind of, um, translate it into golf.

And obviously being a competitive
golfer and being someone who's,

you know, played my whole life,
that was like the ultimate, uh, the

ultimate kind of marriage for me.

Aaron Goldberg: Nice.

Yeah.

Did you always want to get back into
golf or did you think, hey, I'm gonna see

where this takes me in sports and, you
know, it was more of, I don't wanna say

an epiphany, but hey, as you've gotten in,
saw how it worked in the NBA where it was

able to rise all the way to director of
analytics there, uh, for the Utah Jazz.

Hey, I could actually see an

application for

this in golf.

Cory Jez: Yeah, I think the
biggest, there probably was

actually an epiphany moment for me.

Um, I remember when I was doing my
master's degree and I was trying to think

of what to do, uh, for my Master's thesis.

Um, just not want they gave, they
would give you like corporate company

data sets and you could do something
with that and work on a project on

behalf of like a, a corporate partner.

And that just wasn't
very interesting to me.

Um, but I was able to scrape some shot
link data from the old PGA tour website.

Uh, it's a little harder to get now.

Uh, and I was able to do, um.

Because able to write my Master's thesis
based on, you know, shot link data.

And I, I still specifically remember
this was, would've been like 2019, uh,

or 2020, but sending it to one of my
buddies who I, I played golf with and

was like, oh man, like I can do this with
this and like this, you know, what I'm

in grad school for and what I'm doing
professionally and combined with, you

know, golf being the thing I, you know,
I love to do more than anything else was,

uh, was really, really exciting to me.

And so did I know I was gonna be
able to make it into a career or,

you know, beyond just a hobby.

Like, I was very lucky to, to get
introduced to some guys who played,

you know, at different levels and, um,
many tours and, and some of the, you

know, Korn Ferry, PGA tour Americas at
the time, or Canada at the time, and

start figuring out what professional
golfers wanted outta this information.

'cause I've always been very kind of,
uh, application oriented, like, like.

Product oriented when it comes
to analytics, there's, there's

a very academic side of it,
which is foundational, right?

It's how you come up with
things like strokes gained.

It's, you know, the, the people in
academia are what are doing that kind

of the complex math work to build
those metrics, but then you have

to take it to the consumer, right?

You have to take it to the
person who's going to use it.

And so I've always been very
focused on what are the questions

we can answer and what are the
things that we can try to solve.

You know, we look at, like
the NLCS is going on right

now, brewers versus Dodgers.

Uh, my brewers are down
oh two as we speak.

And the, both those, both those groups
have 30 plus people working in their like

technology and analytics groups, right?

And that's across data science
and software engineering.

And, um, the coaches whose job it
is to translate it to the bench

coach and, and all of those things.

And so, and, and I had similar
experience obviously in the MBA.

And so how could I take that in translate
and make it actually make it useful?

For a PGA tour player.

I think that's been the biggest, you
know, area I've, you know, really

grown in and, and understood like,
how do we actually apply this to them?

Because we can do fancy numbers and models
and pretty pictures and visuals and make

it cool and make it work on your iPhone,
but like if it doesn't answer and help you

intervene or do things specifically, it's
just, you know, kind of data for data's

sake.

Aaron Goldberg: Yeah, that's what I've
been really impressed with is it's,

you know, being able to peek behind
the curtain a little bit with you.

The data's there to help reinforce
the right things and give insight.

Uh, more than just, hey, the top
level of like, Hey, here's what's

available on ShotLink, but then,
hey, what does this actually mean?

But then putting it into a, we'll say
consumer facing, but a player facing

platform that's easily understandable,
easily digestible, where they can

actually do something with it.

And a, you know, again, not comparing
you to anybody else, but just

any, any player that's going to
treat their game like a business,

'cause that's really what they are.

You can't, you're not gonna employ a
30 man team of analytics like the MLB

teams are doing, or NBA teams are doing.

But to completely ignore it on
the same level is you're doing

your business a disservice.

And so, again, trying to get players
to think more around like CEO of

their own company, analytics needs
to be part of that at some level.

Every player's gonna be a little
bit different in how that's

incorporated, but I think at least.

Having these understandings of what's
out there and how shot link data,

'cause that's gonna be obviously
the most readily available data.

But then what, what is done with that?

How do you improve your game?

Where do you identify places in
your game that can be improved?

What's the lowest hanging fruit?

Just because you have a weakness doesn't
mean, hey, that's where I should spend

the most, the majority of my time.

And just 'cause you have a strength
doesn't mean you ignore that or, you

know, only spend a little bit of time.

You know, again, we'll talk about
that in a minute of how do we identify

the best places to be practicing?

Um, and then the whole course
prep, uh, tournament prep.

How do we map out a course?

How do we make decisions that are
data-driven as opposed to just feel,

what's the combination of the two?

Uh, using the data with your caddy
so that the caddy can have an

understanding around these decisions.

There's a lot that goes into it.

And again, if I'm the, if I'm the
player, I'm the CEO of my business

and the product is my play on the
course, I want everything at my

fingertips to be able to make the best

decisions.

Cory Jez: For sure.

And you know, we, we will use the term
analytics obviously throughout our

conversation, Aaron, but information is
really, it's a form of information, right?

Just like how your body is feeling
that day is a form of information

and how you are swinging the club
is a form of information, right?

It's maybe it's a little more
quantitative than it is qualitative,

but you know, the, these athletes,
these golfers are, have been doing this

for so long and they do it every day.

So they're so finely attuned
to when those things kind of

deviate off their, off their norm.

And so, you know, this type of information
and then how we obviously apply it, which

we'll talk about is, is kind of what
we're after here and we break it down.

You kind of alluded to it, but we
break it down in three buckets.

So core strategy, which is admittedly
probably like the sexiest part of it.

It's definitely the part I talk the most
about, probably of, um, you know, what

are we doing at number four at Napa?

Or what are we doing at number five
at Black Desert coming up next week?

Like.

There's a lot of really interesting
holes in the PGA tour where you

see golfers do different things,
you know, different players in the

field employ different strategies.

Um, so core strategy gets the majority,
probably the conversation, but tournament

prep, you know, what is your, what does
Monday through Wednesday look like?

What are you gonna spend your time doing?

Um, which is kind of an extension
of the, what we call performance

analytics, which is kind of the
player's skill, your skill profile.

Uh, where are you lacking,

how do I identify trends?

Is one week is two weeks, is four weeks.

Like, how do, how do I know
when I need to change up?

How I'm practicing?

How should I practice, um, if I'm making
a swing change, if I'm not, all of these

types of things, because we're constrained
by time and kind of our physiology, right?

I cannot hit balls for
eight hours straight.

I would've a huge diminishing
return on the, you know, the

eighth hour of practice there.

Um, so how do I structure.

Uh, an off week, an on week, you know,
an off week when I'm not playing the

following week versus an off week
when I am playing the following week.

All of that type of stuff.

How do we, you know, dial that in
to make it as efficient as possible?

And those are the types of things,
you know, you hinted at, you know, the

golfers, the CEO of the company, this,
and maybe maybe tennis being the other

one, is kind of the only sport where
they show up to work every day and

do kind of whatever they want to do.

You know, an NBA player, an NFL player
does, you know, obviously they've got

input with their coaches and, and those
types of things, but by and large, if

you're an NBA player, you show up and do
what the coach tells you to do that day.

Um, and you might be a role player
who's gonna work on those specific

parts of hi, of the role that
he's expected to do for the team.

And so, you know, that can be a really
positive thing for a, a professional

golfer, an aspiring professional golfer.

Uh, but if you're not focused on it right,
it can also be a detriment, or at least

something that, you know, you're not
as efficient as you could be with your

time and, and with your prep and, and

with your practice.

Aaron Goldberg: Yeah, I

mean, I think back to, you know, the end
of that, what you were saying there, and

we're fortunate enough to see some of the
best players in the world and how they

operate and how they run their day to day.

And the best players clearly
operate their day differently

than the rest of the guys on tour.

And especially as guys are learning
what their rhythms are, what their

best practices are, how they should
be setting up their standard day,

and everyone's gonna be different.

It doesn't mean you have to model it
the same way as those top players,

but understanding like, Hey, what do
I need to accomplish throughout a day?

What do I need to accomplish
Monday through Wednesday?

What do I need to accomplish pre and
post game on a Thursday through Sunday?

And then the off weeks, you know.

Is rest the accomplishment
that day and recovery?

Or is it working on something that's, you
know, identifying all those things and

having a clear plan is, is huge and it's,
it's a better way, more efficient way to

have no wasted energy, no wasted time.

And as you all know, out on
PJ Tour, your time is probably

your most precious commodity.

Like, you just don't have enough
time in the day for everything.

And so understanding what's
your highest and best use that

day, that hour, that minute

is

super important.

Cory Jez: It, it absolutely

Aaron Goldberg: uh,

Cory Jez: Yeah.

Aaron Goldberg: yeah, go.

Yeah,

if you wanna

expand on that, you can.

Um,

Cory Jez: you're, you're absolutely right.

The time is, you know, time is the,
the big constraint that we have,

you know, the professional golfers
have on themselves and, uh, again,

when you walk into an NFL or an NBA
practice, every minute is scheduled out.

You know, 'cause they got 'em for
maybe two hours on the quarter,

an hour and a half on the court.

Right.

You know, a Tuesday on
the PGA tour is gonna be.

Some form of activation
practice, probably nine holes.

Um, some practice after some physio work.

Maybe a lift, right?

A light lift or whatever, depending.

And that's like six,
seven hours, you know?

Then you might have a corporate thing,
you know, maybe you just wanna get

some rest 'cause you're going on three
weeks in a row, whatever it might be.

And so building out that day really
kind of ruthlessly efficiently

is, is very, very important.

'cause you're gonna do that 20, 25 times
a year, um, maybe 30, 30 plus times a

year depending on who you're as a player.

And so, um, it's really important to
be very efficient with those things.

And one of the things I have players do,
this isn't analytical at all, but when

we start working together, say, sit down
with a blank piece of paper or maybe

do it on a zoom call and write me out
your perfect Monday through Wednesday.

What does it look like?

Like in, you know, in chunks, right?

How many times do you
see in the golf course?

What, okay, I'm gonna go hit balls.

Is it just, is the purpose
of that warming up?

Is it.

Working on a swing feel, is it,
you know, what, what's the purpose

of hitting balls there and go
through the entire three day period?

Um, you could do the same thing
with, you know, pre-round for each

of your days, pre-round, right?

Um, there's great clips of guys
like JJ Reddick and Dun Mitchell on

social media talking about their,
you know, their off season program

or their pre round, their pre-game.

Um, and, you know, an NBA player's
playing 82 games, it's about the

number of rounds a PGA tour player's
gonna play in a year, right?

And so

Aaron Goldberg: Yep.

Cory Jez: it, it's knowing that
and having that down and having the

things that you want to accomplish
really clear is, is really,

really important for those guys.

Aaron Goldberg: Well, and I think one
of the keys you said there, 'cause

I, I go through a similar practice,
which is interesting, but is not just

what you're doing but the intention.

And I think sometimes it, what I see and
what I've even talked to players about is.

Sometimes they forget why they're
even doing that thing, or they're

going through the motion because
they think they're supposed to

and they see other guys doing it.

But the intention isn't quite there, and
it doesn't mean it's wasted time, but it

can be a lot more efficient, even just
by identifying what that intention is.

Uh, it makes that time and practice and
energy spent so much more worthwhile.

Cory Jez: Yeah, and I would
break, I would break that into

kind of three buckets, right?

Uh, you know, we'll use hit hitting
balls as an example, but there's

kind of three buckets of intention.

It's like you're going through your bag,
you're getting loose, you're getting

warm, you're hitting shots, you're
not really trying to like accomplish

a specific shot, but you're, you need
to go through the bag once, right?

Um, then you kind of have, you know,
what I would call like technical work.

And that is anything you are working
on or trying to re ingrain, um,

this is where like block practice is
totally, um, useful and acceptable.

And, you know, people talk about
block versus random all the time.

Well, like I am trying to make with a mid
iron, I'm trying to get a plus one path

with a zero face 'cause I wanna hit a
baby draw or something like that, right?

You're trying to hit that
number on the TrackMan.

You're working with your swing
coach to try to hit a position, try

to have a, try to ingrain a feel.

You're using video, you're
using TrackMan, right?

You're doing all those things.

And that's like a good percentage
of your range session, right?

If you're gonna be out there for
two hours, that, that may be an

hour of it, um, is working on those
things at different parts of your

bag, whether it's wedges, mid irons,
um, long irons, clubs, whatever.

Um, but then the last part and the one
that is definitely, I think we see the

most variation among PGA tour players,
um, in what I call like the execution

based part of part of the session, right?

Where, you know, we are gonna take
what we are trying to ingrain and we

are gonna challenge you with it and
we're gonna give you kind of a gamified

approach to executing on those things.

And we're gonna try to replicate
what we'll see on the golf course.

Maybe not perfectly to a t, but
based on what we're, depending on

what we're working on, where we've
identified maybe the focus area of

your game, uh, or maybe what the golf
course is gonna ask of us this week.

We're going to design protocols
around that based on the statistics.

To help you to kind of put you,
uh, in the fire a little bit and,

and make you go execute on that.

Some players I see do this religiously
and do it really, really well.

Certainly it's something
I'm a huge fan of.

Um, and then there are probably some
players who straight up do not do this

ever on the driving range or on the
putting green, which, you know, there's a

wide variety of personalities and people
and no one thing is right for everybody.

Um, but, but I would argue kind of
all of the literature and all the

research has showed us that these,
you know, randomized games, and we can

get into some of the specifics here,
Aaron, but like this randomization

giving you a win-loss criteria on, on
a certain game, uh, will really kind

of cauterize what you're trying to
learn and what you're, the skill you're

trying to acquire and make you better

for it long term.

Aaron Goldberg: Yeah, I think
understanding, hey, we can't rep replicate

the pressure of a Sunday afternoon or
Friday afternoon for some guys, or, you

know, the first tee shot on Thursday.

But if we can gamify and give
that win-loss scenario for certain

practice parts of our game, it's
the closest thing to the real thing.

And again, we're not trying to have
the exact same, 'cause we, we know

we can't have that, but if we can
get something close, it's gonna help

prepare for playing under pressure,
nerves, whatever people want to call it.

Like, you feel slightly
different under the gun.

And it, it's not a bad thing, it's.

It's a good thing and the best
players in the world rise to

that occasion and channel that
and learn how to channel that.

I don't think it's always a, hey,
you can either do it or you can't.

I think it's practicing it and
understanding how do I get better

under this type of scenario.

Uh, and so any sort of gamified approach
like that, that, that has numbers behind

it where it's not just making it up out
of thin air is gonna be a good thing.

But I even go back to like, when you're
kids, like you wanna, you wanna beat

your buddy in a putting contest or a up
and down contest or whatever it may be.

Like that's as close to the
pressure you're gonna see on

the golf course as you can get.

How do we, you know, if we take it to
the next level of like, I want to get

to tournament prep and co we'll get to
course prep a little bit at the end, um,

and do kind of a sneak peek of that, you
know, we'll do that on another episode.

But as far as taking, first, taking
the sample size and the data that, you

know, all the PJ tour players have at
their fingertips through Shot Lane.

Like if they're able to access that,
what's the first step there of taking

a look at it, analyzing it, and then
creating some sort of practice plan for,

you know, right now we're in the fall,
so you're players are either in their

off season or about be, and they're, you
know, three week off season that you guys

get, or you know, anything in between.

But how do we identify in a little bit
of time to improve and work on things?

What's the best place to be spending
our time and building a plan

around

that?

Cory Jez: Yeah.

So, you know, ShotLink is, is
a, is a great resource, right?

The PGA tour has developed
this incredible asset from a

data standpoint with ShotLink.

Um, they've obviously built it
out over the last decade or two.

Um.

And it, there's so many different
applications of it, right?

So what we're talking about here is a
very specific application of ShotLink

and you know, again, analogizing
it back to the baseball teams.

Like they've got dozens
of people looking at it.

And, you know, part of the reason
I think that I exist is 'cause I'm

taking this very, you know, trying to
solve and answer these very specific

questions that are oriented towards the
player and their coach and their team.

Whether it's for core strategy or in
this case, you know, identifying, you

know, their performance analysis and
what they need to do to try to get

better going into next year, going into
their last few, um, events in the fall.

So the first thing that we're gonna
do is we're gonna do some math

behind the scenes with it to one,
make it really actionable, right?

Because shot link at at its
core is just a list of shots.

It's all it is.

Um, and there's a bunch of random
coordinates that you looked at.

The data file wouldn't mean
anything to you, right?

But they mean something

relative to each other.

Um, so the first thing we wanna do

Aaron Goldberg: leave that

to the

experts to look at.

Cory Jez: Yeah.

Yeah, that's, that's where the coding
part comes in is very, very helpful

to, we, we, we don't do it by hand,
sir, but so the first thing that we

do, uh, with to IQ is, um, we take
strokes gained, which is awesome.

Um, you know, mark Brody, Columbia
Professor built Strokes gained,

gosh, probably 20 years ago.

Um, and it's a great way to
kind of evaluate all shots

on a level playing field.

Um, but we need to make it a
little more specific to the

player and to the situation.

Right.

So, Aaron, I know you and I could
think of dozens of situations on tour

where maybe you have a chip green
side and it's, you know, take PJ

National, uh, when they didn't oversee
it down in, uh, uh, west Palm is an

example of this, like grainy Bermuda.

You're 10 feet below the green, you're
going up over a hump and it's shortsighted

to a pin and it's just like nightmare
fuel, especially for guys like you

and me, much less PGA tour players.

But like, you know, you've gotta hit it
either in nippy 60 or a putt or a bump.

There's guys play that shot.

Different ways, right?

That's a really, really hard pitch shot.

It might be on paper, it's 20 yards
from the fairway maybe, or 15 yards

from the fairway, and that's all that
strokes gain would know about that shot.

But what, what we can do again, since
we're trying to answer a very specific

question is use, well, hey, 50 or
60 guys might go down there over the

four days, over the course of a week.

So we've got a really good idea
of how that actually placed all

the different pin locations.

And we go to that course every year and
that course doesn't really change and

maybe, maybe one year they oversee it.

So we account for that.

But the course doesn't really change.

Most courses on tour relatively
similar year over year.

And so we've now got maybe 200 guys who
have been down there over the last four or

five years in that one spot on the hole.

So we can actually really, uh, accurately
and precisely grade the difficulty of

every shot on tour because we've got this
really rich data set of a bunch of other

people have generally been in that spot.

Before as well.

So we call it expected strokes,
which is basically kind of like

just built on top of strokes gained.

Uh, but it gives us
precision around each shot.

So you hear this all the time talking to
especially short game coaches on tour,

like a, is he a bad shipper or does he
always leave himself in tough spots, which

are two totally different things, right?

But this now allows us to kind of unlock
the answer to that and say, well, you're

in really, really tough spots, which maybe
is a problem with your iron play actually.

So, or your core strategy perhaps.

But if you're always leaving
it in tough spots on the PGA

tours, like headline statistics,
you'd show up as a bad chipper.

But you may not actually be, you
may be like closer to a tour average

chipper who's always in tough spots.

And if we don't get that part of the
math right, we may go work on the wrong

things, you know, or you know, none of
this is binary, but like we may spend a

little more time here than we should there
when we should be spending the time like.

On our short iron or
mid iron approach play.

'cause we're missing too many
greens in those bad spots.

And so getting that math part right,
which is like super not sexy and like

the nerdy part of all of this, but
it's really important to get it right

because that's what's going to inform
what we spend our time on, right?

And so if you are a, um, just to
extend that shipping example, like if

you're someone who has been leaving
it in tough spots, we can actually

say like, yeah, you're hitting your
chips to 12 feet, but that's where

everyone hits those chips from.

You're actually about a
tour average level chipper.

Like, yeah, we'd like to get that
better, but where you're, where you're

hurting yourself is more your short
iron, mid iron play because to left-sided

pins, you're always missing left.

You know, just as a generic example here.

Um, and that's when you tend to have
most of those kind of really difficult,

above average difficulty shots.

Um, so we would actually say like,
Hey, maybe we need to go work on

short mid iron, play two left pins
and build some games around that

for, for that example.

Aaron Goldberg: That's great.

Yeah, I can see how just the raw
data could just over generalize,

could be a little bit misleading.

I think there was always this
thought that, hey, over the course

of a whole season, the extra hard
shot and the extra easy shot are

gonna average each other out and.

Everyone's gonna kind of regress to the
mean or be in the middle on all, you

know, if he's a, a better than average
shipper or a worse than average shipper,

he's gonna have some easy chips, some
hardships, it'll figure itself out.

But it's actually not true.

Like you need some
context behind the data.

And it's not saying the data's wrong,
it's just adding context to it.

It seems like, and to your point, it's
not, hey, binary, we're, we're not

gonna practice chipping because actually
we're a little bit better than we think.

But it's more, Hey, let's identify an
issue of, hey, maybe our proximity to

hole in those, you know, 1 50, 1 75 isn't
that bad, but to a short left pin or a

short right pin, we keep missing in the
same spot and short sighting ourself and

having an above average difficulty chip,
which is then leaving us a six to eight

footer as opposed to two to three footer.

So we're just.

By lot, like by the percentages,
we're missing more of

those six to eight footers.

Now we start creeping into,
hey, are we a bad putter?

Two are scrambling percentages going down.

I think there's all these
extrapolations of players

understand, like the feel behind it.

Like, Hey, I don't feel like a bad
chipper, but if the numbers say

I'm a hundred and 20th in chipping,
then maybe I do need to work on it.

And now all of a sudden
it's a confidence thing.

You know, I can, I don't wanna go
down too far of the rabbit hole, but

I think that understanding context
around the data and your guys', sorry,

you not, so stroke gain strokes game
is from the tour and then yours is

on layered on top is what?

What is it

Cory Jez: we call it expected strokes.

Aaron Goldberg: Yeah.

So that expected strokes adds
a ton of context for that.

And now, okay, now I'm a player.

I have this expected strokes.

You and I have taken a look at
all the data and we've identified.

Let, let's use an example, like gimme
an example of something you identified

with a player and were able to work
on since let's say, tour championship

or the playoffs.

Cory Jez: Yeah, so calendar wise, right.

Uh, and I'll hit on one
thing you said there, Aaron.

Another thing is important, you know, it,
it's never, the data is right or wrong.

Like the data is just literally the
location of the golf ball and whether

it was in the rough or the fairway,
the conclusion we draw from it and the

intervention we take because of what we
think it's telling us is, and again, not

right or wrong in a binary sense, but like
gonna lead us down one path or, uh, have

us put more weight on one area or another.

And that's the thing we just
wanna be really precise with when

we're making these recommendations
and kind of designing these

interventions with players.

Because again.

Quarters of a shot matter out here.

You know, being a half a shot
better is the difference between

being in the tour championship and
missing the playoffs sometimes.

Like, you know, so over the
course of a round, all these

margins really, really add up.

So, um, but you know, I'll,
I'll give you an example.

A player we work with, uh, who came
to us in the middle of this season,

um, and kind of knew his iron play
was not up to standard, right?

He could look at a strokes
gained approach number and be

like, it's negative, that's bad.

Like, and that's correct, obviously,
but that's not enough to be like,

how do I make it not negative?

And, you know, play better is obviously
like an easy, like very blunt force thing.

Like, yeah, you and your swing coach
go like, hit irons better, but okay.

That, that's not really a
recommendation or an intervention.

Everyone's always trying to do that.

Um, always trying to be more consistent,
always trying to, you know, hit the

shapes they want to hit, hit the spots
and the lines that they want to hit.

Um, and so everybody's, if
everybody's doing that, like,

how do I really drill into.

Very specific situations and identify
those places, um, in that player's game.

Right.

And so with approach plays specifically,
obviously breaking it down by distance,

uh, we tend to only look at shots from
the fairway, um, shots from the rough.

You're generally trying to find
the green, you know, the way

the rough is on the PGA tour.

There's obviously certain weeks where you
can be a little more aggressive, but you

get that Bermuda rough right late in the
year like we had in Memphis or Atlanta.

And it's like, man, you're just
trying to like pitch it front edge and

hope it stays, um, most of the time.

So, you know, we look at your shots
from the fairway, um, we can break it

down by pin location, um, and obviously
break it down by yardage bucket.

And we can also, you know, I
think one thing that's important

here is like break it down.

We call it temporally, but across
time, like you made the point Aaron,

of like, yes, over the course of a
large enough sample that those strokes

gained and expected strokes numbers
would kind of level out, right?

If you had.

A bazillion chip shots
that you hit on tour.

Some would be hard, some would be easy,
and they would kinda level out to being

a tour average difficulty chip shot.

Well, hey, guess what?

Like I got a tournament in three
weeks, like I gotta decide what to do.

So I can't wait till the end of the year.

And, and sample size to figure itself
out, like the question is coming up

of like, what have I done the last two
or three weeks like that has ticked

out of, its like normal range and like
where do I need to ho hone it back in?

Or where do you know I've
been working on this thing?

Is it coming, you know, is it improving?

Is it coming up the
way I would want it to?

Is it translating in tournaments?

And so we can't really wait
for like lar the law of large

numbers to kick in essentially.

Right?

So, um, there was a player who came
to us, uh, came to us middle of the

season, knew his approach play kind of
was not, uh, where he wanted it to be.

We really picked out like 100 to 1 25.

So kind of full sandwich wedge,
full gap wedge, and maybe some

feely pitching wedges in there.

Um.

For this player as his big area of focus.

And specifically for him, he had
an issue with front right pins.

Um, just the nature of his ball
flight, the nature of his shape.

Um, you know, if you're a player who
moves the ball right to left, which a lot

of players tend to do with their irons,
especially shorter irons, um, that can

be kind of a challenging whole location.

'cause it might mean you're
starting it out outside the green.

Um, and it might mean if you be a little
defensive, you're, you know, you're

gonna, you're miss, you know, if you're
a little long, players tend to Ms.

Long left or short, right?

Unless you're a lefty.

But, um, long left or short, right?

Like it doesn't really
work for that pin location.

At least for this player it wasn't.

So, you know, we identified that and we
put a lot of times our interventions,

and I've used this term a couple
times, intervention just means

like, what are we gonna do about it?

Um, is gonna be some form of a, of a game.

Um, and the game kinda has
to have three principles.

It's gotta be gamified, so you've
gotta be able to win or lose it.

We're not just gonna hit 20
shots and go, okay, cool.

Good job.

You've gotta be able to win or lose.

There's gotta be, you know,
we talked about pressure.

No, we're never gonna replicate
Sunday at the master's pressure on

the driving range in Mississippi, but
we're gonna make it worth something

and we're gonna track it, right?

So, um, so it's gotta be gamified,
it's gotta be representative.

So if we're building like a win loss,
like a, working with this guy yesterday

and we were saying, okay, you're gonna
drop a ball on the course and you've

gotta hit it for that range, for the
100 to one 20, you've gotta hit it

inside of 20 feet for it to be a win.

So tour average from one 10
is about 20 feet proximity.

So in the, in this, in this guy's
case, 'cause we're trying to get him

back to average and then to above
average in this area, we just want

him to beat to our average right now.

Um, and so he is gotta hit that shot
inside of 20 feet to a tucked pin.

Can't do that to the middle of
the green, but to a tucked pin.

Um, he's gotta hit that inside of 20
feet and it's gotta be periodized,

which I just hinted at, but.

Right now, you know, we're setting
the, the ring basically at this

and he's gotta hit it inside
there for the shot to be a win.

And we'll add up, you know, he's
gotta do it five outta nine times.

If we do it in a nine hole session, um,
he should get better at that over time.

We should shrink that ring over time.

So this concept of
periodization the same thing.

The analogy I always
make is weightlifting.

Like you don't go bench
1 35 your whole life.

Like you start benching 1 35 and
hopefully at some point you get

stronger and you go to 180 5 and
2 25 and you know, big strong guys

like you, Aaron Bench 3 25, right?

So, um,

Aaron Goldberg: I was
gonna say I'm still working

on 1 35, So, I don't know

about

that.

Cory Jez: So, but the game should
evolve with the player over time, right?

So every two, three weeks.

So we set that win loss
threshold for the whole game.

And if you beat it five times
in a row, we're gonna shrink.

For, depending on what the game
is, but we're gonna shrink the

ring or the number of reps that
you have to complete the task.

Um, they're all, they can all be a
little different, whether it's putting

or chipping or iron player driving.

Um, but that, that's the periodization.

So it's gamified, it's representative
and it's periodized, right?

So you can win or lose.

It's based on your statistics,
based on kind of like what

our goals are from the course.

And we're gonna track it over time.

And if you're continually crushing it,
we're gonna make it tougher on you.

'cause we want you to continue to grow.

And if you're continually losing,
we're gonna loosen the ring too.

That doesn't happen as much, but
like we would loosen the ring up too.

And if a player's like really
struggling in this area, we don't want

him like feeling, feeling like he's
banging his head against the wall.

So all the literature shows
us that you should win.

You know, with skill acquisition you
should win between 50 and 75% of the time.

Somewhere in there is the sweet spot.

And that's actually really
important to communicate the

players when you're designing these
interventions with them because.

These guys are super competitive and
there's certainly guys I work with

that will like lose a game and will be
on the practice screen or the driving

range and they shoot me a look or,
or maybe they use, you know, a, a

four letter word and which is good.

They're, they're competing, right?

Which is what we want out of them.

They care, um, that's gonna, you know,
drive that improvement like by being super

focused and trying really hard to win.

Um, but yeah, it's, so it's got,
it's gotta kind of meet all those,

uh, all of those criteria for us.

Um, with those parameters.

There's, there's one we do in
shipping that's really fun.

So there's one we do in shipping
where we set a bunch of shots around

a green, around a practice green.

You got multiple pins and you kind
of walk around, you never hit.

Another principle here would be you
never hit the same shot twice, ideally.

Um, and so.

Uh, so randomized would
be another principle.

And so in this game you end up
moving around the green to different

spots and hitting at different pins,
hitting it inside of proximities.

And those are all the levers we pull
on how hard we wanna make the game.

But what happens in the shipping game
is you get further and further down the

line and it's like, okay, maybe you have
three spots left and if you don't hit it

in the ring, you gotta walk all the way
across the green to hit your next shot.

And if you don't hit that one in the ring,
like you're down to two balls, you gotta

walk all the way back to that same ball.

Correct.

And we call it the walk shame,
but it's even that little bit

of pressure that we're applying.

And because like these, again, I mean,
if I'm took you out there right now

and do it like, and made you play this
chipping game, Aaron, like, it gets

really frustrating and you really don't
wanna walk across the green again.

And hopefully if you're someone who's
taking it seriously, like that's gonna

make you focus, that's gonna make you lock
in even 5% more than you would've on a,

you know, just a normal hit and giggle.

And that's gonna be some of it that
helps it translate it and cauterize

it in our mind and kind of our.

The neuroplasticity in our, you
know, neural neurological system

to lock in that, you know, that
experience and that hopefully

improvement over time.

Aaron Goldberg: Yeah, I mean, uh, I'm
laughing because I've seen you do that

game with some of your players and it just
raises the level of focus in those times.

And what, again, one of the biggest
things I notice between the top

players in the world and even
like a top 50 player in the world.

Is the level of intention and focus
on every single movement and shot

that's hit in a practice round.

I'm not even talking about the tournament
rounds and to even to the level of,

I remember we were walking a practice
round at the PGA championship and a

player's caddy dropped a ball next to it.

Uh, he had dropped a, a hole marker
where a pin was going to be in the

tournament and he, the caddy dropped
two balls for him to chip and the

player goes, no, move that ball.

I'll never hit it there.

And I kind of like looked and listened,
kind of hear what he was gonna say.

He goes, I know we can't be past that pin.

He moved that ball two yards.

That's how specific he was with his
chipping practice and intention,

because he was like, I'll never hit
it there, but two yards from there.

Yes, I, I could hit it there.

And it was that specificity of like.

How focused they are on every movement
matters and every practice shot

matters from an energy standpoint.

They're not gonna waste
anything out there.

Um, so I, I love the parameters that
you set with those three or four

principles around those practices.

And, you know, I can imagine whether it
be wedge game and that a hundred to 125,

I would imagine you're gonna see results.

E everyone's gonna be different, but
like fairly quickly if you're really

focusing on it because you're gonna
be able to identify what the issue

is, whether it's just time spent on
it, whether it's a technical issue,

whether it's a strategic issue.

Uh, obviously the longer,
further away you are.

Now, maybe technical comes into it
and there's more variance, but I think

everyone can, can agree if you're on PJ
tour, like your wedges, you're gonna be

able to get close if you're going with the
right strategy, have the right technique.

You know, and, and have the right numbers.

It, it's just a matter of focus
and I shouldn't say focus, but of

intention on that, those shots.

And so if you're starting to see that
periodization, so I didn't really know

what that meant until we talked about it.

Um, not, hey, over the whole season,
but maybe the last three weeks, this

has gotten a little outta whack for me.

Maybe not compared to everybody else,
but for me, this is a little outta whack.

I need to go back and, Hey,
I know this course coming up.

There's a lot of shots
between a hundred and 125.

I need to make sure I
spend more time on this.

Gamify it, have it be based, you
know, on what we're going to see.

What, maybe, talk to me a bit, a little
bit about that in, I don't wanna get

like into full on like course mapping
or prep mode, but like, how about just

identifying, hey, going into the rest
of the fall, these guys have Utah.

You know, this is gonna come out probably
the week of Utah, but Utah, Cabo, Bermuda,

RSM or guys are gonna go be going into
the spring, into the, into January.

You got Century, which
hopefully gets played.

We don't know where yet.

Um, but you got the three Palm Springs
courses, you got the two courses at

Torry Pines, you got Riviera, you
got Phoenix Open at TPC, Scottsdale,

like all different types of courses.

But how about just identifying, hey,
this is a spot or an area of I'm

gonna have more than average amount
of approach shots from this distance.

Or, Hey, I know this course I'm
gonna hit a lot more drivers, or

this course, I'm gonna hit a lot more

Cory Jez: Yep.

Aaron Goldberg: shots
from 2 50, 2 75 off the T.

Um, how do you break that
down and then, and then turn

that into that same systemized

practice, if you will.

Cory Jez: Yeah.

You know, you hit on something really,
um, relevant at the beginning there,

Aaron, in talking about, you know,
why we track this stuff over time.

You know, again, compare this to the
player who maybe go hits 57 Aarons

in a row and then calls it a day and
maybe feels like they hit a good, or

feels like they didn't hit a good.

This can help us identify when
there's a technical flaw or

if there's a technical flaw.

Like if I take someone through the
same, you know, or a similar like 100

to 1 25, like a full wedge combine
every day for two weeks, right?

It's only 18 shots or so.

But, um, we did that every day for
two weeks and we never passed it.

And we kept loosening parameters and
we still like, weren't passing it.

And we were like losing, losing
strokes compared to the tour

tour numbers and all of that.

Like we clearly at that
point have a technical flaw.

You, you don't even need two weeks
or three weeks to identify that.

Like you could probably identify it in,
you know, a couple of sessions there.

And one of the nice things about
TrackMan, if you use it appropriately,

is it's gonna give us like a much
higher sample size of data than waiting

to go play a bunch of tournaments.

'cause you're, you might only hit
three of those around in a tournament,

uh, or four, something like that.

You have 18 approach shots.

Um, and maybe a quarter of them
are, you know, 100 to 1 25 or

one 50 depending on the course.

Toy Pines you'll have like none.

Um, and then we can, we can get that kind
of signal a lot quicker, you know, bring

the swing coach in, talk about that.

You know, something they're probably
already aware of, but like, boy,

we really need to figure out a
three quarter pitching wedge.

We do not, we are really
having trouble with that 1 28

number or whatever it might be.

Right.

Which is like a hammer gap, but.

It's a green that's gonna spin.

I can't hit a hammer gap, so I've
gotta like hit a handsy pitch and

I just do, do not have that shot.

'cause every time it comes up in the
combine, I lose a quarter of a stroke.

Right?

So you could by, by doing it in
that standardized way, you can

identify that so much quicker, right?

Whether it's me looking at the
reports afterwards, the player

just like, this is always coming
up and I'm always getting a grade.

So I'm like, it's just, it's just
resonating with them a lot quicker.

Um, and to your point, like we do see
when it's not a technical flaw, so

sometimes it might be like, I need
to add a new shot to my arsenal.

I'm gonna go work with my swing
coach and try to add this shot to

like, I need to take 2000 RPM off
a pitching wedge How am I do that?

I've never done that before,
or whatever it might be.

gonna it's something that's just
like, man, they've got all the skills,

they've got all the biomechanics for
it, which obviously these guys are

uber talented, but they just don't
have, you know, the reps or they

haven't tried to hit that shot a bunch
and now we're asking 'em to hit it.

Yeah, we see that come
up pretty quickly, right?

So this 100 to 125 example we've
been talking about, you know, that

was at the end of the playoffs.

We kind of identified that.

Um, and at Napa and Sanderson, this player
went out and I think at Napa he went

like seven-for-seven green in Reg from
that yardage, um, with average proximity.

So he gained strokes 'cause
he never missed a green,

never shortsighted himself.

Um, and had field average, you know,
was average for the week in terms

of proximity from that yardage.

So he picked up some strokes, certainly
compared to where he had been previously.

Then at Sanderson, he beat
proximity by like five feet.

Um, and he had really good showings
at both those events as well.

Um, Sanderson especially, uh, both, both
those courses have, you know, a little

more bias towards the short irons.

They're not super, super long,
um, golf courses and so we should

see, you know, those interventions
pay off relatively quickly.

That is not a multi-month, you know,
it's a, that's on a week by week basis.

We should see kind of like
little step function increases.

Um, in those things.

So it, uh, that's worth pointing out.

Like it's really good to track this
stuff because it allows you to see like,

boy, I just can't execute this thing.

Or if, if I can, like, I should
see it kind of quickly get better.

And, you know, we, we see that
all the time with players.

But on the, on the, on the preparation
side, um, you know, really week to

week, you know, using the West Coast
swing as the example there, I mean,

God, different types of grasses,
different types of golf courses.

You go to Sony, which is a Seth Rainer
old school dog legs, like you're moving

three woods and like two irons off the
tees there and like trying to shape shots.

The Bermuda, depending on if
it's three inches, like, can be

kind of gnarly, like Jumper City,
trying to read Bermuda lies there.

And you go to, you know, Tory, which
totally different grass, you know,

Riviera, which is, uh, kakuy obviously.

And um.

You know, really low, rough,
typically very tough fairways to hit.

Obviously great green
greenside surrounds there.

A lot of chipping happens at Riviera.

Um, relatively low green
and regulation course.

So each week we're gonna kind of put
together a package on the golf course.

And we do it from like, yeah, we do the
individual holes, obviously the core

strategy about specific tee shots and
specific pin locations and targets,

but also like the macroeconomic, like
what is the course going to ask of us?

And so that tends to look like, you
know, what are the approach yardages

plus or minus kind of a typical tour
week, because again, a guy's still

gonna hit four irons Monday through
Wednesday, but like, you know, we're

not gonna the Mexico open anymore.

But you go to the Mexico open,
you're hitting four irons everywhere

around the golf course, right?

Or Tory Pines.

You're certainly gonna hit a lot more for
irons than you would at probably, um, TPC

Scottsdale or uh, pebble Beach, certainly.

Right?

Um, and so, um, you know,
on a relative basis, what is

it gonna ask from us from a.

From a yardage standpoint for
our approach game, um, around

the greens, what types of shots?

So literally just breaking down like short
and long fairway, uh, rough and bunker.

Um, you know, Tory Pines has
a lot more rough chipping.

Uh, pebble has a lot of rough chipping.

Um, waste management is like
Oversedated, you know, seated

obviously, um, because they're
playing there so early in the year.

Um, so where's that
distribution of shots fall?

So what should I be working
on on the practice Green?

Um, obviously once we're on the
course, we're looking at the

specific shots to the specific pin
locations, those types of things.

And, and then the putting
distribution as well.

So if you take a really, uh, high green
and regulation golf course, um, like

we have this week coming up in Utah, I
forget the number, it's, but it's well

into the seventies, maybe even close to
80% green and Reg for the field last year.

So like everyone's hitting the greens.

We got a lot of, like, it becomes a 15 to
25, 30 foot putting contest essentially.

Um, you, the fairways are very wide there.

If you, if.

You missed the fairway, you're
pretty much taking a penalty

stroke 'cause it's desert.

But um, very high fairway rate.

Very high green and reg rate.

Um, so being able to make
mid length long putts.

So we wanna work on like speed control
for mid length, long, mid length, long

putts in our prep during the week.

And we also wanna get on the course.

We don't wanna grind over six
footers like we would at Sawgrass.

'cause sawgrass you're gonna
miss a bunch of greens and have

a bunch of six footers for par.

We want to hit like where are the
kind of the common spots that I'm

gonna have that 20 to 25 footer
for birdie to each of these pin

locations and try to drill those in.

'cause we may even see some, when,
when we go out on the golf course,

we're looking for stuff like, boy
this is kind of a common area I

could see myself having a putt from.

Or we can see that in the data explicitly.

And boy that putt does something totally
different than I thought it would.

And I'm gonna put that in my book, right?

'cause the players are allowed to
observe, you know, through their own eyes

and their own feet and what they see.

And they can write that in their book.

They obviously can't use.

Any external implements or green reading
tools nowadays, but we can go say,

Hey, here's the common spots, and when
you see something from a common spot

so we know it's got a high likelihood
of coming up that really like breaks

in a way that's different than you'd
expect, like that should probably

make it into you in your Caddy's book.

Everyone's got a little bit of a

different process there.

Aaron Goldberg: Yeah, I think just
even understanding going into a, a

week, like let's say I'm reviewing
this, I'm the player, I'm reviewing

this Thursday, Friday, the week
before, you know, it's the off week.

Utah's gonna be next week.

And so I'm reviewing all right, this
is, and you know, ideally, actually

you should probably be reviewing this
two or three weeks ahead of time so

that you're spending the whole week
leading up to it, practicing this.

Um, but even just going into mapping out
what my practice round's gonna be like

knowing, hey, I need to be hitting a lot
of putts from the middle of the greens.

Understanding where
those, you know, we have.

Last year's pins, we know where
these are gonna go and being

able to make some of those notes.

And, um, I think one thing I've seen,
and you know, correct me if I'm wrong or

gimme insight, but it seems like this has
helped, this will help some of the younger

players shorten their learning curve
of getting out on tour and learning new

courses, but also learning, playing the
same course 10 years in a row, something

like that, that these veterans have.

But at the same time, I've also seen where
veterans being able to use this data and

the analytics of it to put numbers and,
and kind of quantify some of their fields

where, hey, I know like this course is
gonna have a lot of longer approach shots,

but they don't quite have the, the actual
numbers behind it where this analysis

can say, Hey, yeah, you, you're correct.

And the numbers you need to be working on
is one 90 to two 10 or one 90 to two 15

as opposed to like, Hey, I think I hit a
lot more like six, seven, and five irons.

You know?

Well that's great, but like, why
not dig even deeper and actually

know what those numbers are.

Um, when I first got into business, I read
a book called Measure What Matters, and

it's just all about like, if you want to
improve, it's measuring what you what and

quantifying what you're trying to improve
on, and then constantly assessing that.

Cory Jez: Yeah.

Aaron Goldberg: And I think that the
same applies if, if not even more So

when it comes to sports analytics,
whether it be basketball, soccer, you

know, obviously in golf this data can,
there's then an abundance of data at

this point and now it's figuring out

how, what's

the best way to use it to improve.

Cory Jez: Yeah, you're, you're spot on.

Like the early, in the early
knots, the problem was like

collecting this information, right?

Or if you're a college team
right now, your problem is

collecting this information.

Um, but at the PGA tour level, it's
what, what do I do with this information?

How do I, again, I'm gonna go out
there on Tuesday, I'm gonna be at

the course for about six hours,
you know, what are we doing?

And so, using Utah as an example,
I just pulled their stuff up.

Um.

Inside of one 50.

So, you know, approach starts at 50 yards.

Everything inside of 50 is scrambling, but
so from 50 to one 50 is, is de-emphasized

At Utah, I mean, you, you only have 24
30, you know, about 30% of your shots are

gonna come inside of one 50, 30% of your
approach shots compared to 28% of your

approach shots are gonna come from one
50 to 1 75 at um, at Black Desert Resort.

And that's 8% higher than tour average.

So a normal tour week is like one
in five shots come from there.

And this week it's gonna be about
one in four, almost like one in three

shots coming from one 50 to 1 75.

And then so one 50 to 2 25 are all
higher than to our average this week.

So like, what are we gonna do on Tuesday?

We're gonna work through one 50 to 2 25.

Like yeah, we're gonna
work through our bag.

Yeah, we're gonna work on the feels and
the general things we're working on.

We're not taking away from what
we're doing with our coach.

We're not taking away from where
we're trying to get our swing to be.

But then, okay, we've done each of
those from like 30 or 45 minutes.

What are we spending the last
30 or 45 minutes on the range?

We're spending it in that,
like, in those distance buckets,

uh, you know, at those times.

And if it's a course with really firm
greens, we might say, Hey, like, how do

we take, you know, get some extra apex
on these and, and practice bringing

these down a little bit softer, right?

If it's really soft greens, like
talking about how am I gonna get to

back pins with soft greens, right?

Which is a really challenging thing,
uh, for these guys who generate so much

spin, obviously with, with the golf ball.

Um, and so whether that be a, you know,
sometimes that's a TrackMan combine

we make specific to the yardages.

I mean, you know, again, we're
sitting on top of all the data.

Aaron, we pretty much know how far
you're gonna have in every green.

Like yeah, tweak it up and down for
wind, tweak it up and down for firmness.

Like we know how far you hit
it off the t We know how far

the field hits into this green.

Like we know that, you know, on
certain holes nobody hits driver.

So.

You know, we don't just take the
distance, the hole and subtract 300

to get your approach charges, right?

Like we know very, very specifically
where you're gonna hit from.

And so we tailor that preparation that
way, um, to again, like, you're gonna

spend time doing something, let's
do the thing that's gonna be most

impactful and kind of give you the
most R-O-A-R-O-I, uh, for your time.

So, and then obviously all that
still trickles into what do we

do when we actually get on the
course, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday?

How are we gonna make that time efficient?

Um, and some of those things.

So yeah, all, all of that, you know,
again, these little margins matter so,

so much over the course of the year.

You know, go pull up PGA tour.com.

Strokes gained, and the
difference between 30 and 51 is,

you know, really, really big.

And now, you know, we have this kind of
extra benchmark with, you know, top 50,

um, getting, getting a lot of, uh, a lot
of spoils, um, at the end of the year.

Aaron Goldberg: Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean the whole theme of, you know,
us having these conversations is

how do players create and convert
their talent into value and.

If we're just relying on
talent alone, then, you know,

we're leaving a lot out there.

You know, I'm, again, not trying to
compare myself by any means, but I

look back at my fledgling pro golf
career, career, you know, 15 years ago,

and to have this type of direction to
practice around, like, I look back and

I had no clue what I was practicing.

You know, I thought I did, I thought I
was practicing efficiently, but it was

like, yeah, I'm gonna, my quantification
was how much time was I spending?

Uh, and which is a bad barometer.

Um, obviously you can't be lazy,
but that's a bad barometer.

You said, you mentioned one thing about,
uh, like a college, like availability

of data, like a college team or player,
you know, to some extent I would imagine

the Korn Ferry tour players as well.

Like I'm a Korn Ferry tour player moving
up to the PGA tour, like obviously

there's, there's some shot linked data.

I'm not sure you know how that's compar.

But let's even go a step
further, like a college player.

What's the best way for them to try to
look at analytics, you know, at at a, at

a high level to even start this process?

Is it, is it shot?

Like shot?

Uh, sorry.

Um,

Cory Jez: Kinda shot track.

Aaron Goldberg: I'm Thank you.

Shot tracker.

Is it track man?

Like what, what type of data
can they get their hands on?

Like, they're probably, they're not gonna
be able to get on course data from, uh,

a college event or something like that.

But is it going through
combines on a track man?

Like, what's, what's a good way
for them to get even started

down this

road of analytics?

Cory Jez: Yeah, I, I think, um, it, it's
a different application, but, but still a

lot of the same principles really apply.

Um, you know, your core strategy
is gonna be very different, right?

Your core strategy, just by definition,
unless you happen to be playing an

event, uh, at a place that's held a
PGA tour event, you're not gonna have

that very specific, um, course hole
shot level data, you know, down to

the inch of wherever your golf ball's
been, and then what the proximity

was from those spots, and da da dah.

And so, um, and this is the same for,
you know, a guy playing many tours

or even KornFerry, it's pretty much
analogous to, to a Korn Ferry player,

you know, the information they have,
obviously a little bit of data capture.

Um, at the whole level on the Korn
Ferry tour, but, but not getting

that same, um, granular detail.

And so what we say to, you know, from a
core strategy standpoint and the college

teams that I work with, um, we're really
having players build custom dis what I

call a custom dispersion profile, right?

So you're, you're going through some
combines on track, man, you're hitting

shots in a game like context, but we're
basically doing it as data capture and

doing it to understand like, because if
you're an elite four iron player, long

iron player, and a kind of a mediocre
wedge player relative to your skill,

um, that should in kind of inform
your targeting strategies, right?

Um, and the thing to get a little
mathy, the thing that people

need to understand is dispersion.

Although we always see it on like
TrackMan reports as a ring, right?

It looks something like that.

Or maybe a little tilted,
something like that.

It, it, that ring implies a uniform
distribution, like an even chance of

ending up somewhere, you know, plus
or minus 10 yards of your target.

But what we all know intuitively
is the ball does not have

an even chance of ending up.

You know, uniformly in that window, it's
gonna take a, what we call a Gaussian or a

bell curve or a normal distribution shape.

And so, 'cause if I have a col, even
a college player, if I have them hit

a 207 irons in enough sample size
and I plot where they all finish, I

will eventually end up with a bell
curve centered around their target.

Or maybe, you know, a yard or two right?

Or a yard or two left, depending on what
their small bias is around that target.

And so you actually want to know, again,
getting a little mathy, but you actually

wanna know the width of that bell curve.

That is what's informing
your targeting strategy.

Um, because you can know what is one and
two standard deviations off of your mean.

And that can basically tell you
like, Hey, when I hit a good shot,

how often do I kind of miss aby?

Is it three yards, four
yards, five yards, six yards?

And then when I hit, like most of
my shots, uh, how far do I miss buy?

Is it.

7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 yards, right?

Or what does that number look like?

So one in two standard deviations
of your, you know, dispersion

profile can pretty much inform you.

'cause then you need just need to
understand is the up and down really

difficult or is the up and down
really easy, or is it a hazard?

Right?

'cause if it's a hazard, I basically need
0% chance that I'm gonna go in there.

Uh, if it's a, you know, very kind
of stock, like I think I'm gonna chip

this in pretty easy, up and down green
light, then I can probably just aim

one standard deviation off the target.

Uh, which I know, but that is 'cause
I've done a bunch of work on track

man, and like, you know, you and
I, Aaron are similar level golfers,

but we have different parts of our
game that we're good at, right?

So you and I should not have the same
targeting parameters necessarily,

uh, when we go play competitive golf.

And so building in all of that specific
to the player, because we've got

all the resources in college, right?

You, you, you've got the track
man, you've got obviously the

hitting bays and, and most of these
programs now having, you know, a.

a course themselves for better part of a
day and, and all these types of things.

So you can do, I actually think the
team setting's really interesting.

You know, you get a little bit more
kind of freedom and economies of scale

to work on this stuff more broadly.

You know, it's very hard in a Tuesday
practice around to go out and like

fire a bunch of wedges at tucked back,
left pins in a course setting, right?

Like it doesn't really work on the PGA
tour, but a college team, like if you're,

if your coach is kind of dialed into
this stuff, you totally could spend time

working on those types of things, right?

Um, so I think from a core strategy
standpoint, it's just creating that

player specificity through dispersion,
profiling, um, and then applying that to

the specific golf course kind of through
what you read in the practice rounds.

And again, that's like having a
checklist in the practice round, looking

at the four corners of the green,
looking at historical pin locations.

Like, like these college coaches,
I, I don't, I, I assume they're

saving last year's pin sheets 'cause
they're gonna go back to the same

tournaments and save the pin sheets
so you know where they were last year.

Throw those cups down.

I mean, we take it for granted on the PGA.

But stuff like that, that can
move the needle really far.

And then, you know, the training
side of it's very similar, right?

You don't have the shot link
data again to give you like your

strokes gained or your expected
strokes in tournaments necessarily.

Although you can do some
manual shot tracking.

There's plenty of good
applications that do that.

But with the track man and with the
combines, again, you should be able

to get that kind of information
and act on it pretty darn quickly.

Um, you know, my kind of working
theory, and I'm not a college coach so

I don't wanna speak for college coaches
here, but pretty much every player's

competing in D one, certainly at a high
level, has their swing coach, right?

The college coaches, you, they
can be a second set of eyes.

They can help reinforce some things.

Swing coach is obviously not always there.

Like they're on the PGA tour, they're
usually back home where the kid's from,

but their job is much more of that,
of a, of a performance coach, right?

Like more similar to a lot of the
stuff that we've been talking about,

at least in my opinion, of, you know,
how are we gonna design our day?

How are we gonna design these drills,
um, to, to allow these players to

go get the most out of their games.

Um, depending on, you know, what
this next tournament's gonna ask

of us where each player kind of
needs to work on their stuff.

Uh, you know, I I would actually say in
the team setting, you've got a lot of

opportunity to, um, affect that really
nicely because you've got a locker room

and you can put, you know, you know,
one of the things we, we talk about

with, uh, teams that I work with is like
having like TrackMan leaderboards, right?

And we've got a whiteboard up and we've
got a standardized com, you know, a wedge

combine that everybody does once a week.

And like we know who the, like what the
all time score is, and we know who's

got the best score in the last month.

And like, it creates this competition.

It's, it's really healthy.

It's really good.

Um, so I think the team setting
has a lot of opportunities to, to

leverage data and analytics, you
know, information, um, in ways to help

the teams get better, even though it
looks different than the PGA tour.

Aaron Goldberg: Yeah, I
mean, talk about gamifying.

Like I, I can't think of anything
more competitive than your college

team, and I don't care if the guy's
not traveling, like how bad you wanted

to beat your roommate or the guy on
your team every single day like that.

You didn't care about anybody else.

You want to be that guy on your team.

And like the raising the level
and raising the bar together, I

think is a, is a huge opportunity.

But I, I think that's interesting.

I mean, that's not necessarily what
this is centered around, but, um, I

think sometimes the assumption is, Hey,
we don't have that shot linked data.

Like, there's not really
a whole lot we can do.

And I think that's incorrect.

I think it's, there's a lot you can
do, especially with TrackMan and, and

providing, uh, data sets that way.

And then obvi, it'll come out really
quickly on the course in a tournament.

Like, is there another weakness or
is there another strength that like,

isn't getting captured by this data?

But for the most part, it's gonna
give you, give the players a, a

pretty good sense of where they're at.

And then as with everything in
golf, it's, it's an adjustment

and an ongoing adjustment.

So, um, all great.

I man, we, I could go another two hours
probably on this, um, and continue to

deep dive on it, but I wanna make sure
that, uh, we save some for next time.

Uh, probably get a little bit more into
course specific analytics and mapping

a course and, and how, how that's done.

Uh, but appreciate your time,
Corey, appreciate your insight,

what you do with your players.

Uh, it's been really fun to watch,
uh, both behind the scenes and

then see the results come out.

Uh, appreciate you sharing, uh, a
little bit sneak peek behind the

scenes for the people listening and
hopefully, hopefully this helps 'em.

Uh, I'll put your website in
the show notes and kind of your

handles so people can follow
you, uh, and reach out that way.

Um, but thanks for listening everybody.

Uh, we'll be back soon with
another, uh, episode of the PGA

Players

podcast.

Thanks, Corey.

Cory Jez: Thanks, Aaron.

Thanks so

much.

Great chatting to you.