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Véronique Ory never had a dramatic rock bottom. She simply started noticing that alcohol didn’t fit her life the way it once had. In this conversation, we talk about how yoga and greater awareness changed her relationship with drinking, the difference between restricting yourself and genuinely wanting something less, and why we often wait for something bad to happen before giving ourselves permission to change. We also explore what’s underneath the feeling of “I deserve a drink,” how old habits can stick around after we’ve outgrown them, and what it means to build a life you don’t constantly need to escape from.
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Disclaimer: The views expressed in our episodes do not necessarily represent those of Sunnyside. If you're concerned about your drinking, please consult a medical professional. This podcast is not medical advice.
Today's guest is Veronique Ori. She's a yoga teacher, retreat leader, and author who never had a dramatic rock bottom. She simply started noticing that alcohol no longer fit her life the way it once had. We talk about outgrowing old habits, the difference between restriction and conscious choice, what's really underneath I deserve a drink, and how greater awareness can make drinking less feel less like deprivation. Veronique, thanks for coming on today.
Speaker 2:Thanks so much, Mike. Happy to be here.
Speaker 1:Well, today we're gonna talk about a lot of your expertise. But before we do, everything starts with a story. And around alcohol, you didn't have one rock bottom moment. And a lot of the people listening here, they don't either. And but there usually is a moment that made them start questioning your their drinking.
Speaker 1:So can you take us back to that moment for you?
Speaker 2:Oh, gosh. I was like, yeah. So I don't often talk about this. So oh, some resistance coming up. I will say for my comfort, maybe as we start talking, I'll feel more apt to share more.
Speaker 2:But for the moment, I was going through a really difficult time, a a big loss, I'll say. And I really leaned into alcohol. My my usual go to for when I'm sad, when I feel a lot of grief, is my appetite goes and I just don't want to feel, which I think is a common response. And so that's where I was for some time where outwardly nothing had had shifted. I was still in my yoga practice, still meditating every day, still showing up for my clients.
Speaker 2:I was just casually losing a lot of weight and feeling like I was just in this rhythm of getting to the end of the day and wanting to to just not feel because the emotions were just so intense for for some time. And then fast forward to I went to this event in town. It's one of those beer fests where you have this little cup and you go from station to station, and you're basically drinking the beer and you're going to the next table as you're drinking and then next, next, next. And so you don't fully realize how much you're drinking because it's just this much over and over and over again. And I had run into a couple people who I had been talking to about coming on a yoga retreat, and we connected.
Speaker 2:We were walking around. I had mentioned something about it. We maybe grabbed a bite. And then later on, my retreat partner, she said, oh, you know, what did they have to say about the retreat? And I couldn't recall the conversation at all.
Speaker 2:And it wasn't like, you know, some of my friends, it's like they're, like, hospitalized or, like, maybe they have, like, a major car accident, like, these very, like, horrific near death experiences. It was just that I couldn't recall the conversation. And it just really hit me. Like, if I can't be present with people, I don't I don't want to be not fully in my integrity. And so it was just a switch, I just stopped.
Speaker 2:I just was like, you know what? I actually want to feel fully. I actually want to experience all these emotions. And and that's been a part of the grief journey that I've talked a lot about. And I and I I say it in a universal way on purpose because I think it is important that we safeguard our personal story to a degree.
Speaker 2:You know, I'm happy to share it with friends and and close people. But in terms of a public space, just in terms of universality, I think it is important to share in a way that it's accessible where each person can can see themselves, like, within what I'm sharing is in my grief journey, the fallacy was that it's too much for me to hold. But the actuality is that there's so much grief because there was so much love. And and that I want to actually feel and lean into and and that I actually have so much more resiliency and strength that I that I can feel it fully. And why would I rob myself of that?
Speaker 2:So that that was one of that was a pretty
Speaker 1:defining
Speaker 2:moment where it it did feel like a switch went off, and and then I was able to make a change.
Speaker 1:I think it's great that you felt that switch because not everybody has that click. Sometimes it's gradual, sometimes it's not. But it's interesting to say there because we all wanna benchmark against other people. Like, my rock bottom, it never really happened, but it's the same thing. We do the same thing with trauma.
Speaker 1:Right? Like, we might think that our trauma is not that big if we go and look at the extreme cases, but within, it feels large. Same with this you know, you wouldn't wanna classify what you hit was not a rock bottom in the sense of most people think about it, but it was for you. And for some people, it might be taking these large milestones to be taken away in their life relationships and and arrests and, like, real serious things. But for some people, might just be some people, it's as small as that's it.
Speaker 1:That hangover was so bad that I I'm that was it for me. And so, like, those changes, if we're listening for them, can make their messages that we can receive, and it sounds like you received it. Now I wanna dig into something that you said there, though. You said, I'm feeling some resistance. What was the resistance you were feeling to wanna share?
Speaker 2:I wanna protect the person who's a part of that story because it's it's not my place to shed a negative light on anyone, and I don't want it to come off like I'm blaming someone. It was my response to something that I think and I and I talk I talked to about this actually with a friend yesterday of of wanting to share but also protect privacy. Right? Just because we have these different means where, you know, we could on all the platforms share every intimate detail of our lives if we wanted to, where one could say, oh, I'm showing up with complete honesty. But I think that there's there's actually a lot of of sacredness in keeping things close to the heart.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That makes sense. And the reason I ask is I think so many of us feel resistant to wanna share these things, especially if they it's not a topic that you talk about for a variety of reasons. How's it gonna be perceived? I don't even know how to express myself.
Speaker 1:I know that when I first started writing my book, it was an always this question, like, should I put this out into the world? You know? Because in in the past, I was always all business. And now all of a sudden, I'm writing this book about personal struggles. And so I just wanted to mention that I identify that there is that resistance, and I think anybody listening here, it's so hard.
Speaker 1:I have listeners reach out all the time that wanna share, but they're like, I don't know. I've never really said this to anyone before. Oh, and by the way, please don't tell anybody. And, of course, I never do. And, but it but at the same time, I guess I just wanna say since I talk to so many people on this topic, how normal and and typical and not abnormal it is to have these nuanced struggles when it comes to alcohol and somebody's life and where they're at.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And we all have different responses that are there as protective mechanisms. Right? Where it's like there's there's a bur in the brain that shows up of I have to do this to protect myself somehow or something is too much. And and I started to remark on that, that it was certain instances, certain people that I leaned into doing things that I probably wouldn't do otherwise.
Speaker 2:And then it was in the wake of certain endings or certain griefs that I've experienced where I leaned into not to feel, which is a very common normal response. Right? If given the choice of, you know, here, I can numb the pain or here, I can really feel the pain. Most people choose to have the pain killer. They choose to have, you know, the surgery being put under versus being fully awake to to to the experience.
Speaker 2:And and I think what's so telling about that is our overcomfortable modern life that it's it's made a lot of almost like I think of it as if you were your own ophthalmologist, right, and you were, like, changing the lens in which you see the world, it's like you're choosing the blurry lens when you're intoxicated, when you're on the substance. But if you went to the eye doctor, you wouldn't say, oh, yeah. Let's keep it at this blurry setting where I, like, don't see things clearly. No. You wait until it gets clear.
Speaker 2:And so it's it's another way of thinking about it. It's like, oh, actually, if I want to be really clear in the way that I see the world and the way that I interact with others, what are the ways that I can help facilitate that?
Speaker 1:At this time, were you very into your where you are now with yoga, or was it progressing and just starting? I'm I'm very interested to know if at that moment there was an intertwining between falling back on yoga and becoming aware of your body and what you were noticing maybe with alcohol.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, I was I was teaching. I was practicing. I was I was teaching full time, and I was as immersed as I am now in a certain way. I think, you know, as time goes on, we certainly get more immersed or more awake to certain teachings or through the experience we get to be deeper into the practice.
Speaker 2:And yet at the time, for as much as I was aware of, I felt really deeply in the practice. I mean, I was and I think that this is where it gets a little bit sticky and and where people get stuck in the spiritual space. It's like, oh, I'm meditating and I'm journaling and I'm, like, really processing my childhood stuff. And I'm, like, in the intergenerational stuff. We can get kind of stuck in the story.
Speaker 2:And and so I think the the moving through that is is really important to highlight is when we can notice and remark on what has been as an influence to what is now, how are my thoughts, words, and actions going to shift so that I can move through without carrying all of this with me in the here and the now? And so that's, I think, a practice that we can really only be fully embodied with when we have as much clarity as we're willing to give ourselves.
Speaker 1:Got it. So do you think so if I'm hearing this, first of all, you have to have enough clarity to approach these and not be stuck in that process and enough to get to the other side. Is that is that what I'm hearing, or did I miss a part of that?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, I think we can only have as much awareness as we can have in any present moment. Right? When you think about a belief that you had, you know, ten years ago, that you were, you know, assured this is the way that it is. And then maybe you learn something along the line of, oh, if I see it through this other way, actually, you know, there's there's another way of looking at it.
Speaker 2:Not to say, you know, you've been doing it wrong or anything like that, but there's there's an opportunity for new clarities to show up as we become more clear. And then, you know, in a lot of these spaces, especially, you know, with everyone listening and you and I, it's like we listen to all the podcasts and we read all the things and we pour into these different attention. And in a lot of ways, it's like we never necessarily hear anything new, but we're new all the time. And we might hear it in a different way, and so it resonates a layer deeper. So I think about when we're learning something, we have this cognitive, you know, brain knowing, and then we have, like, this layer deeper where I think of it as, like, a heart knowing.
Speaker 2:And then we go a layer deeper, and I think of it as a cellular knowing where you just feel it energetically within you and around you, and it's like a more integrated knowing. And so it takes quite some time to move through those different layers to really integrate in a way that feels meaningful meaningful to each of us.
Speaker 1:It brought me back to a moment. I remember I first when I first read the power of now by Eckhart Tolle, and it was so hard for me to grasp so much of it. And then I did a lot of self work years later. I picked up the book, and I found myself, like, just nodding in agreement throughout the whole book. It was a completely different experience.
Speaker 1:And so what you just said there is, I think, on point that the information's there, but we're always changing and how we perceive it and where we're at in our lives can really make the difference on how we take that information, first of all, how we perceive it, and then how we can apply it within our own lives.
Speaker 2:Okay. Absolutely.
Speaker 1:I love so I you come to this awareness, and, obviously, you're like, hey. I'm gonna make these changes. And you've done some some writing and thinking about this. And one thing that I noticed is you talk about the difference between restriction and making a conscious choice. What do you mean by that?
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Yeah. I mean, I I'm such a type a OCD, like, do list, color coded calendar type of person. And so in the organization, there's there's a great safety. There's a great feeling of peace.
Speaker 2:Like, here are the guardrails. I know where things go. And and there's, like, a really fine line from where that organization or that restriction shifts into a certain kind of panic or a certain kind of of feeling constriction. Right? So it's like, here we are in discipline where it feels like, okay.
Speaker 2:I'm in flow. I'm following along. And then all of a sudden, it's like the walls come closer in, and it feels like there isn't room to adjust or to move where and and sometimes it's like nothing externally has shifted, but sort of a continuation of what we've been talking about, the inner world shifts. And so, you know, to have the meditation at 07:05 and then do your journaling 07:10, and then you're gonna do some chanting at 07:15, and then you're you're gonna just making sure you get everything in versus from seven to eight, I will do some of these things as it flows, right, where you have guardrails, but it isn't, like, on the minute. This has to be this thing almost like you're doing some kind of checklist within actual spiritual practices.
Speaker 2:Even though within the context of attuning to the spiritual practices, you think, oh, this is allowing for dedication, but it but it can be restricting feeling into how the attention is. But it's it's so variable in how we respond to these things. So, you know, what my organization where I feel like, oh, I really thrive when I have this in this order. For a lot of people, they would just just bounce right off of that and and not wanna even do anything. It would be immobilizing.
Speaker 2:It would be too much. But if I but if for my brain, if I have the freedom of it, it's like I don't do it. So I I really thrive in having a rhythm, but sometimes it'll it'll turn, and then I have to set it down. So part of that is just discernment and self awareness of I'm gonna try this out for this time and have permission to shift because we have our external seasons certainly. Right?
Speaker 2:Like, okay. It makes sense during the winter if I live in a hemisphere where it gets cold. I might be more internal in my practices. But we also have winters that happen no matter what the weather is doing, where we just feel like we wanna cocoon a little bit, and we don't necessarily know why. But there's just an energetic knowing the more adept we become at recognizing what the energetic shifts are.
Speaker 1:The structure thing is hard for me because I'm a rebellious person. So Absolutely. And as I've gotten older, you know, I've I, you know, I don't need to live by that list. And every time I've tried it, I'm already behind by the second thing on the list. Right?
Speaker 1:And and I as I've matured a little bit here, I realized that the freedom that I'm speak I'm seeking, there is actually freedom in the structure if I follow it. So I'm in that journey to try and find a balance within that, so I can definitely connect with what you just said there.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. I was I was sharing with a girlfriend the other day how I I love a color coded calendar. I think it was Tim Ferriss that had shared years ago about, you know, letting go of the fallacy that you have this pie where, you know, family is like this section and work in this section and per you know, that is, like, perfectly balanced, whatever your attentions are. He was highlighting that there are seasons where maybe, you know, family's taking up most of the pie, business is here, and then maybe seasons where business is taking up most of the pie and family's here.
Speaker 2:But that there's a conversation around, okay. This is a season for this. But one of the ways that I really love to just have that as a visual is in my color coded calendar. You know, I have my teaching as blue. I have fun time as pink.
Speaker 2:I have, you know, self care as purple. And so at a glance, I can see, am I in a certain balance or is something really taking precedence? Because one of the things that is so important to highlight and and it's and it's and it's part of this conversation of when we seek to dull or, like, when we wanna lean into feel is if we're in this output energy so much, we tend to seek something to counteract that. And so if we're depleted, we usually reach for the easy thing. This is why people will, you know, reach for chocolate at 3PM, or they'll like reach for, you know, online shopping if they're exhausted or, you know, whatever your thing is to like, oh, just need to do this.
Speaker 2:Right? But if we can have a framework of, okay, I really wanna attune to nourishing practices, and maybe you free write on what does nourishment feel like for you? Is it the food that you eat? Is it the practices of, you know, putting nice lotion on your body, getting a massage in a certain kind of frequency? Whatever the case may be, meeting with a friend for a walk in the park, making sure that you get your eyes to nature every single day.
Speaker 2:And so when you can look at that as a swatch, then then it then you're in this grounding rhythm that you're not guessing and trying to figure it out. And and maybe if if the, like, scheduling it out feels too restrictive and you wanna be rebellious with it, is, like, you can have them and, like, consider it, like, penciling it in. You know, it's an electric electronic calendar, especially. You can move things around at will. It's not, you know, fixed.
Speaker 2:However, it is nice to know that there's place holders for these things that you make sure, like, okay. If if I really want to practice the guitar every single day, like, if I just leave it to chance, it probably won't happen. But if I have it in my calendar, then it's an appointment with myself, and then I'm then I'm going to do it. That kind of a thing.
Speaker 1:I can't help to draw a little bit of a metaphor as far as, you know, the shifting pie, as you said, with that Tim Ferriss referenced is that, also with people that are drinking mindfully, they're trying to be very regimented. That's my number every single month. And what we have to realize is that, like, there's probably gonna be more occasions at times, and sometimes that calls for it as long as you're within your guardrails. Or maybe holidays are okay. In the summers, you said, I'm gonna travel, and I'm gonna do alcohol free.
Speaker 1:Like, those also can shift in ways. But what I'd what I'd like to know from you since I didn't ask at that point that you decided you you weren't happy with the current situation, not remembering a detail. What did you decide was right for you? Was it I'm gonna change the frequency or the amounts where I'm gonna no longer drink? What did you end up deciding?
Speaker 1:I I imagine it it also changed over time.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It has changed over time. I I set it down completely. And in my typical fashion, I tend to be all or nothing, which has variances within that, but I am a very fiery personality. So I'll I'll really pour into something full throttle or or I'll
Speaker 1:just smiling because I can relate.
Speaker 2:It's like, yes. We're going a 100 miles per hour, or I've decided I'm not going. So so I did completely stock. At that time, I think maybe there was about a year. And then there was there was some I think there was a holiday where I thought, okay.
Speaker 2:Maybe I'll try it on. And then I set it back down again, and then I think I maybe had, like, seven or nine months where I didn't. And then my aunt passed away, and and my cousin poured wine for everyone to have a toast. And I ended up drinking with my family for for that time, and then and then I set it down. So, you know, there have been, you know, instances of picking it up and setting it down.
Speaker 2:I have had friends who have said, oh, there's no way that I can't drink around my family. And and so I I always love to challenge that because I've had instances where I have decided I'll lean in and drink with my family, and I've had instances where I didn't at all, where I decided, okay. Like, I won't drink, but I'll I'll do, like, the snacks. But for me, like, the snacks is, like, the same as the alcohol because it's like a like a graspy kind of something. And so this even just this most recent time, a few maybe six months ago, something like that, I decided I'm not gonna drink, I'm not gonna do the snacks because I don't do that on my own.
Speaker 2:Like, I just have my meals. Like Yeah. Because there's no point of satiety for these, like, nashy, you know, processed foods. And so not to, you know, not to shame the times that I've done it or not to shame anyone who loves to have their, like, snacks and their drink. If you're gonna do it, enjoy.
Speaker 2:Right? I think that that's, like, the main thing is, like, let's either do it or don't, but, like, not get into this shame spiral around it as long as you're, you know, safe personally and the people around you are safe. So that was really interesting. And so I I challenged my friend. I said I said, well, maybe if you feel like you can't be with your family without drinking and joining them, maybe it's a sign to give some space Or try to join and not drink and see what you observe because, you know, if you're around people who are not clear, it's really highlighting.
Speaker 2:And if you feel like you have to be drinking to be with them, then it might be a sign that maybe you don't wanna be with them at least when they're drinking. Right? So there can be like, I think of boundaries, like, almost like velour fabric. Like, it's not like we're building walls, but, like, there's fabric that can move. Right?
Speaker 2:So it's like, okay. For this gathering, I'm gonna go here. For this gathering, maybe not. Right? So it's definitely ebbed and flowed over the years, and I definitely feel more clarity when I'm not.
Speaker 2:But there are instances, you know, for example, it's like a girlfriend is going through a major breakup and she just wants to get together and have a drink. Like, it just feels like I'm gonna join you for a drink. Or maybe not. Maybe maybe it's like, actually, like, let's let's go get, you know, a massage together or let's, you know, go for a beach walk. But I think it's like moment to moment, like, what is the choice that feels conscious versus, oh, I'm just doing this as a knee jerk reaction or it's like a default pattern versus I'm living by my life by design, and I'm leaning in with so much clarity and wisdom.
Speaker 2:And I'm choosing this because it's it's a choice that I'm making versus an old program.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I mean, what you said there, like, with your friend, you're choosing, first of all, not out of autopilot, but you're choosing the job it's doing. And in that case, the job it's doing is connection so that they feel like you're partaking with something that might bring them a little bit of comfort. And I think that so many people that say, oh, I could never go here or there, a little bit too close to the pattern, I think. And what you said around, you know, maybe you need to step out and give yourself some space.
Speaker 1:That actually might be exactly what somebody needs. Or they also might be pleasantly surprised if they challenge themselves to go and realize that, hey. You know what? It wasn't as hard as I thought it would be. I mean, I think about I I do mountain biking, but I'll say it more in, a hiking sense.
Speaker 1:You might look at a hill that looks like a big, long climb, and you just go up it, and all of a sudden, you're at the top, and you're like, it actually wasn't that bad. And look at the view from up here.
Speaker 2:In here.
Speaker 1:No. So I wanna ask you a couple more questions and dig into your, expertise around people listening to themselves, listening to their body, and we'll keep on track with the alcohol. So when somebody says, I deserve a drink, what do you think that they actually deserve?
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Yeah. Oh gosh. I love this question because there's so much tied up around what we think we deserve. And one of the things that I think I always draw on is in instances where I'll have a thought like that about a drink or what I regard as a treat.
Speaker 2:Like, maybe I want gelato or a slice of pecan pie or something. Right? It's like the 14 year old version of myself shows up, and she just wants what she wants. And she's a little rubble. And, you know, this is, you know, often said in in the space of growth is, you know, you wouldn't give your car keys to a 14 year old, but we do that oftentimes in our choices.
Speaker 2:It's like, oh, yes. This young teenage version of myself is driving us, which is largely irresponsible in terms of being an adult in this space. Right? So when I think about what it is that we deserve, I mean, that's a whole neural pathway rewrite. You know?
Speaker 2:The the model is and I've heard people say this like, oh, I don't wanna deprive myself or, oh, I've had a hard day or I'm celebrating or I'm grieving or I mean, there's so many reasons to just say, oh, because of this, I'm doing this. And so that's part of that, you know, default mechanism that we were talking about. So if if we're deciding here and now that we're living a life by design, I think it's really important to create a pause between stimulants and response. So if the, you know, common thing is is, like, you get home from work, you crack open a beer, you sit down on the couch, you turn on the TV, it's like, do you think that this is the rhythm that you want to be in? You know, not from a space of judgment or shame, but is that rhythm in connection to growth, into feeling uplifted, into feeling grounded, into feeling light and bright and inspired and creative.
Speaker 2:Right? So it's like, okay. If if you're feeling like you're coming home from work, say, or say you had a hard day at work and you deserve a drink after this hard day, I think it requires actually backing up into how you can orient your your mind and your system into getting to be in relationship with your livelihood or what your attention is during the day, that it's actually a great gift to pour in in this way, to be of service of this way. And so when you come to the other side of that, it's like, yeah. Like, what in the what now?
Speaker 2:Like, do we wanna go for a mountain bike? Do we wanna, you know, meet up with friends and, you know, have a picnic in the park? Do we want to treat ourselves to a massage? Like, what would feel actually in the connection? Because I think that that's probably the seed of why we open up social media and get lost in the scroll.
Speaker 2:We want connection. Probably why we, like, lean in on the substances because we feel, like, a little bit lost, and we're just trying to connect into a regulated nervous system, which actually, if we're in that space of oftentimes, it's like not necessarily fight or flight, but it's definitely not rest and digest. We're, like, a little bit inflamed where you're not necessarily, like, running or in a fight, but you're just disgruntled or you're, like, annoyed or agitated by something. And so it really requires enough space to look at, okay. What is the stimulus?
Speaker 2:And in this pause, what do I want the response to be from my highest and brightest self? Do I want to squash what I'm feeling, or do I actually want to use this edge to lean into sensation? And then in the sensation, how do I want to be in active conversation with it versus trying to put it under the rug and and not feel?
Speaker 1:Yes. Yes. I mean, the the boredom or the restlessness feeling, I think so many of us feel that, first of all, that you described there. And, you know, one way I like to think about it is that, like, alcohol is just a tool that we use. So, like, when you said somebody comes home and they grab a beer, they want that it's a tool to divide between work and the end of the day, or the tool they use for social media is to have that connection.
Speaker 1:And I think the the proper thing is for people to start realizing this is just a tool, but what I really need is this x, y, and z, and what else can connect me to that? So one line I found in your work, because I think this moves right into this, is you said building a life we don't constantly need to escape from. Yeah. What does that actually look like in somebody's, like, everyday life?
Speaker 2:Oh gosh. This is so huge because, you know, we often hear, oh, how is work? Like, oh, you know, it's just work. You know? This guy is annoying.
Speaker 2:I had to sit down with this person and have a talk and, like, you know, if this person would just stop talking, whatever. And so one of the things that I think is really important is to really get honest with where one's attention actually wants to be. And and this is huge because we're in such a culture of actually searching for the things that need to be fixed. And it's it's a chronic epidemic. If you talk to anyone, if we pulled a 100 random people, they either wanna fix their relationship, their work, some random house project, you know, they something with their kids, something with, you know, money, something there's always, like, a thing that is not right, you know, from their vantage point, which, you know, might also be true for them.
Speaker 2:Right? But what we wanna really look at is when we can notice that we're in a chronic space of fix, next, next, next, because it it almost it's like a like a seeking for the cortisol. Like, we seek the stress almost like it's something that we fiend off of. But you wouldn't cognitively say, oh, I wanna seek something to be stressed out about. Normally, it's like, oh, I wanna fix this thing.
Speaker 2:But we're in the thought loop of seeking the thing to be fixed. You know, it's like that old I don't know if you got the Scholastic magazine when you were a kid where you have to circle the things that are out of place as, like, a, you know, exercise. I feel like we're constantly doing that. It's like, this is out of place. I have to do this.
Speaker 2:This is wrong. And so what's so important to do, and this is very elusive to many, so I I challenge anyone who's willing to sit down with what you actually want. Paint the picture with as many details as possible. What time do you wake up? How many hours do you work?
Speaker 2:Are you working for yourself? Are you working for someone else? What's the industry? What country are you in? What state are you in?
Speaker 2:How much money are you earning? When do you get to exercise? When do you get to dance? When do you get to be outside? When do you get to have self care practices?
Speaker 2:When are you connecting with your family or not? What are you eating? Are you going out to eat? Are you making your own food? Like, what is your ideal?
Speaker 2:At least for today. Right? Like, what feels like, oh, man. Waking up to that, to eelic, just lit up, so excited. And then just feel into that energetic that's actually already here and nothing exteriorly has to change.
Speaker 2:In fact, that's the plot twist is like, actually don't have to change anything. But if you can tap into the frequency like it's already here, the universe conspires to orchestrate it for us, where you might get laid off. The person might break up with you. Like, things just kind of sort out or, like, maybe, you know, the other way around. You get promoted.
Speaker 2:You're, like, you know, get proposed to. Right? Like, the things just shift in your favor. And so but that but that has to start with the thought loop cycle shifting away from the thing that doesn't feel like it's your your highest version of self. Because when we are in the thought loop of seeking to fix or what's wrong, we actually re ingrain those things to be.
Speaker 2:But when we can shift the thought to what we desire, you know, which isn't to say that it's superficial, but more like an energetic, like, this is this is how I want to be embodied, and this is the energy I wish to share. And it can pour through in so many different ways, but connecting into the energy. And then it's like, oh, well, I can just show up in that capacity, and actually nothing has to shift. And that's the power of the yoga practice. Like, I can't tell you how many countless times a private client will come stressed beyond belief.
Speaker 2:We go through a process. They lay down in savasana, in corpse pose. They come back to seated, and the entire physiology of their face has shifted. And nothing exteriorly has shifted, but their inner world has. And so that's the power that we get to have in the yoga practice and the way that we live.
Speaker 1:I think that's such a powerful exercise because we're always it's always gonna be a, oh, once I get to x y z, I can finally relax. Once I get, you know, this done, I can finally enjoy myself. And this is something that I work on all the time because I am that, you know, motivated, trying to push myself all the time, and I have to remind myself that, like, as cliche as it sounds, it's like, it's all about the journey, and it's not about the destination. And Mhmm. But I wanna ask you in closing.
Speaker 1:So if somebody did the exercise, I think the, I'm gonna ask selfishly, challenge for me is to picture that, but what can we tell ourselves as those priorities creep back in front and center as that's the main spotlight focus? What what can we do to kind of reground ourselves in that?
Speaker 2:Mhmm. So the the practice is letting go of the how and the when. So so for example, if you could distill what it is that you desire, so maybe it's, you know, a certain level of success or a certain something coming to fruition, do you have a word of of how that would resonate or, like, a pinnacle kind of essence that you would embody and share? Do you do you know what the word would be?
Speaker 1:Specify that a little bit more so I
Speaker 2:can Okay. So for example, everything that you desire, stop my fingers, it's here. How do you feel? What do you feel, like, more connected to?
Speaker 1:I guess relief that that you know, that it's appeared, I guess.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh. And so it allows you to feel
Speaker 1:Less like I'm running towards something.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:At least at least at that moment.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And so there's a sense of peace?
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think so. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. So
Speaker 1:But knowing I'm smiling because knowing my personality that I would be short lived. If everything appeared, it'd be like, this is great. What's next? Yeah. You know?
Speaker 2:And so so that's it's really important to to know that if there's no point of satiety, if there's no point where you're satisfied, how can you cultivate the the dreaming while also being at peace in the here and the now? And so one of the ways to to think about that is to be in deep gratitude for everything that is as it is. And so that's, you know, roof over your head, food in your belly, the people around you that you love. And and then also, you know, the person that triggers you and the the things that you feel are lacking because that creates the fire to be the dreamer, to want to continue, to want to be next leveling. So it's it's both.
Speaker 2:It's it's holding the the the fire and and the air at once, so to speak. Right? It's like ease and engine can exist at the same time. And so, you know, that's how how we can so I always say, like, I I feel like I'm I'm a monkey in a rocket ship. Like, I just wanna be like, let's go.
Speaker 2:You know? Yeah. But I'm also, you know, very happy to be on planet Earth with feet on the ground, eyes out to nature. Right? And so we can be here and now while planting seeds.
Speaker 2:And, you know, like, you could be talking to the ground like, seed, take root. Come on. Faster. You know? But it's gonna take the time that it needs to, and and maybe it'll it'll flourish in a way then that we can't even in our human minds conceive of when we can really be in that embodied peace practice in here and the now, things things have a way of just magically arriving even better than what we can imagine when we're not, like, so micromanaging, like, everything happening in a certain time and space.
Speaker 1:If there's one thing that I've learned is that while external circumstances can bring happiness and joy, that if I place all of my happiness and joy on those external circumstances, then there's a real possibility that I'll be let down or, like I said, what's next? And all of a sudden, that went away. The next target is further away. I'm chasing after that. And so, you know, what a great message that you're saying there around that it that it's the air in the fire that it's also within you as a source of happiness, source of satisfaction can come from within.
Speaker 1:And, of course, you we can group it all together to make this big happy experience or challenging one, but it's all it's all not all dependent on that outside thing.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Yeah. I mean, it's so easy to give it to the external validation or the external metrics of success. And also, you know, so much of that we don't have control over. You know, we can we can set ourselves up.
Speaker 2:We can put ourselves in certain rooms. We can continue to cultivate more education or experience in certain things and and then allow for it to come through in a way that feels most authentic to where we're meant to go. And and it I mean, it we you can see this really tangibly actually, like, if you've ever ordered anything online ever in your life. Yeah. It's like you get this, like, oh, great.
Speaker 2:You know, add to cart. This thing's gonna show up tomorrow. And then sometimes you go to the door and you're like, oh, what's in this box? Like, totally forgot. What what did I order?
Speaker 2:Then you open it, and you're like, okay. Great. And so now there's this other thing. And it's like, how long does that moment of satisfaction actually stay with you until you look around and you realize, oh, I'm missing whatever it is. Add to cart.
Speaker 2:Next. Next. Next. So we do that on, like, a very just, you know, tangible level oftentimes. And and we do that with our different layers of of how we measure success and and the ways that we're striving or seeking or wanting something to be better than it is.
Speaker 2:And it's it is important to remark on how we can be in that deep peace and gratitude for everything that is and also leaving the door open for for the magic to swirl about. But I I think, like, the greatest freedom is letting go of needing to hit a certain metric or to actually arrive anywhere. And so that's that's a symbol that feels very apt of this moment. So, you know, depending on when this airs, but in in this present moment, we're a couple days away from Lion's Gate 88 And 8 sideways as the infinity symbol, which whenever I catch myself striving to arrive somewhere or to get to the next benchmark or to you know, in a yoga practice, it's like, and then to this shape and then to this shape. It's like but also then we're gonna continue on.
Speaker 2:And so you could even, you know, as a meditation practice or just as a visualization is to remember, oh, right. I'm in this infinity symbol, and and it's a representation of we're actually never arriving anywhere. We're actually just continuing around the bend, and then we we might off road, and then we might back up, and then we might try to skip ahead, and then we back up. And, you know, it it could be very messy sometimes. But then we we loop back around, and and then and then and then we start to realize, oh, the move is actually less, not more.
Speaker 2:The move is actually slowing down, not speeding up. Because then you could really be in the savoring of everything that is. And, I mean, like, that's so luxurious. That feels so in the in the essence of opulence, you know, in every sense of the word.
Speaker 1:What a perfect way to end today because I love I love the infinity. I love the less is more, all of that be because it's so true. So if what I wanna do now is if anybody's listening and they wanna learn more about what you do, I wanna give you a chance to share on where people could reach out.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Thank you so much. Yeah. Would love to connect. I mean, I feel like if if anything has been the thread of this conversation is, yes, connection.
Speaker 2:So you can learn more about me, my offerings on my website, yogawithveronique.com. And if you are seeking to shift the the the default mode into design mode. I have a membership called Shine, and it's it's meant to be an invitation to to share your light, to be that that person that has the controller of your own dimmer switch to bring the brightness of yourself into the world, and and that looks so different for each of us. And so I have different practices in my membership. It's a global community, so I'd love to invite your audience in.
Speaker 2:I'm offering a promo code of thirty free days to try it out. So you can enter code shine, s h I n e 1111, and you can join in for thirty days. There's stories about where I've been as a universal way to connect into themes like let go, slow down as portals into what it is that you're cultivating in the here and the now so that, yes, we can practice the gratitude and everything, and also we can be in that space of of moving through what it is that we're moving through and sharing it in community and and having practices that that help connect all of that together. So we'd love to have everyone come in and try that out. And you could learn more about that on my website.
Speaker 2:You'll go with veronique.com, and you can also connect with me on Instagram at Veronique Ori. And, if anything resonates, please feel free to send me a message. I'm always really happy to be in conversation.
Speaker 1:Love it. Well, it was such a great conversation and honor meeting you. Thanks for coming and sharing today,
Speaker 2:Veronique. Thank you so much, Mike.