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Transforming the Game with Kristina Katsanevas is the podcast for game-changers, risk-takers, and industry shakers. Don’t hate the player—hate the game? Not here. These leaders are rewriting the rules. From high-net-worth entrepreneurs, founders of Australia’s most iconic brands, and those disciplined enough to keep stacking those habits to success. We dive into the minds of pioneers innovating in media, business, fashion, sport and transformation.
Want to know how to break the mold and redefine success in your career, business, and life?
Tune in and start transforming the game.
Kristina Katsanevas (00:00)
your feedback to others to try and help them through a journey of grief. You have to express yourself. You need to communicate that you need help. I need help. A former basketball player and coach at West Jordan High School is mourning the loss of his wife plus a son, a daughter, a brother and a nephew. Race was in the car with my family and car accident took his life and his youngest son's life.
and my wife Kortni's life and my son Riggins life and my daughter Frankie's life. I can't win. I'm not gonna get any of them back. The guilt and the shame and the sadness and the grief and the anxiety. It's hard. I think one thing I'm learning is you can know you're gonna lose, but how you fight still matters. Most people are gonna forget your name after a month, 100 years after that, no one's gonna remember your name. What that means to me is you gotta be in the moment today and you gotta live your life.
Kristina Katsanevas (00:52)
Hello and welcome the one and only Mason Sawyer to transforming the game. I have been trying to get you on for a little while now because I believe you have one hell of a story to tell and you are impacting lives. And the ripple effect that is going around the world from you from your 1090 podcast is phenomenal. So welcome.
Mason Sawyer (01:17)
Wow, was quite the intro, so thank you for making me sound so cool. That was great.
Kristina Katsanevas (01:22)
It is definitely, definitely deserved. So everything with your 1090 podcast and just let's just start on the name of that because life is 10 % what happens to you and 90 % how you respond to it resonates so, so deeply with me, particularly with you have a lot of people in this world that I feel do and can and for good reason walk around like.
everything's happening to me, but this podcast is about, well, yeah, maybe 10 % did happen to you, but the rest of it's up to you. let's backtrack a bit and let's talk about Mason as a kid with your siblings and what you were like growing up first.
Mason Sawyer (01:59)
Okay, yeah. Well, thanks for having me on real quick and I'm glad you like the quote. Yeah, so I was the youngest of five kids and I had two older brothers, two older sisters. My older brother was a state championship wrestler and my other older brother was a football player. So it was rough for me growing up. But love sports, basketball, football.
Kristina Katsanevas (02:19)
Yeah.
Mason Sawyer (02:23)
and then mostly basketball and high school. And the quote you talked about is, I mean, there's a couple different versions of it, but one of the person I remember hearing say it was a famous football coach, Lou Holtz. But yeah, I have a little bit of a sports background.
And my dad, he's the one that actually sent me that quote when I was trying to come up, I don't know what it was like for you, but it's hard coming up with a name.
for a podcast, I just like, what do you even call this thing? And so like, was literally the day I was trying to think of his name, because he literally had to pick a name to upload, like, you need a name. My dad sent me this email and the email was that quote. And he said something to the effect of, you know, if we could change anything, obviously we could, but we can't. And so all that we really have left in our control is how we're going to respond to this. And that just kind of...
Kristina Katsanevas (02:55)
Yeah. Oh, so many options,
Yeah
you
Mason Sawyer (03:20)
really hit me that day and was a good point and I love that quote and I'm like man this this is the idea that I love this is what I want to call my podcast and so yeah that's kind of how all that unfolded
Kristina Katsanevas (03:34)
Yeah, so sporting your background. You were a basketball coach. I was a sporty kid as well. And I do find that that and especially you're the youngest of five. So I've got four, three siblings, there's four in my family. I'm the second oldest though. So my brothers that are younger than me probably feel the wrath of me. But I find being sporty and having siblings that it might give you a little bit of extra toughness, whether it's having to.
Look out for yourself, stand up for yourself with older siblings that don't give you any grace so that they're going at you. But then also with sport, it's about the discipline, it's about getting back up, it's about doing the hard work before you get the reward. Do you find that that's helped you navigate, especially throughout your life so far in that mental toughness space in building a foundation?
Mason Sawyer (04:23)
Yeah, I mean, I think my sports background helps me a lot with dealing with grief and because I don't know what taught me was teamwork. Like you can't do it alone. And I think that's just so true is like, I can't do it. I'm doing alone. And now like the other big thing that, I mean, every basketball coach I ever had told me, like if you want to be a great basketball player.
Kristina Katsanevas (04:43)
Thank
Mason Sawyer (04:47)
You gotta be a great communicator. Like you have to communicate. And I think that's such a big thing for grief too, is you have to, no one knows how you feel actually. I mean, there's a lot of guessing and other people have lost loved ones too, but you have to express yourself. And one of the things you have to communicate that's really, really hard and difficult is you need to communicate that you need help. Like I need help and...
Kristina Katsanevas (04:50)
That's good.
Yeah.
Mason Sawyer (05:14)
Man, a lot of guys don't need to do, or a lot of guys hate doing that. But there's a couple of things that sports have taught me is like, I can't do this alone. I need to communicate, express how I feel. I need to ask for help. And then I guess just, I had a really good high school basketball coach and he just kind of taught me, know, if you miss a shot, you make a turnover, you gotta go to the next play.
Kristina Katsanevas (05:18)
Mm.
Mason Sawyer (05:44)
you have to keep going. And that's a mindset that's helped me too, is knowing that I gotta keep going and the way I respond to loss or failure is going give me the type of life I have. So I think sports has been very helpful for me in my life, even if it's not on the court itself.
Kristina Katsanevas (05:54)
Thank you.
Yeah, no, it does. has this effect. I heard a really nice story, was a bit of a powerful story actually, and you were telling it of your brother race at the fight in Madison Square. Do you want to, for people who haven't listened to that, do you want to give a quick recall of it? Because I resonated with that with you, where I think that's just in your DNA of why you're doing what you're doing.
Mason Sawyer (06:18)
Yeah.
Kristina Katsanevas (06:37)
and what has happened here where you're just, never going to throw in the white towel. But I loved that story and I feel like people should hear it.
Mason Sawyer (06:45)
It is a great story and
my brother Race is just a maniac so I have so many great stories of him. I briefly mentioned it earlier but Race was a wrestler in high school and he was a damn good one. He was a state champion. So when he got into his 30s he started doing UFC fighting. He's always been a fan of it. Not for me.
Kristina Katsanevas (06:52)
Yes.
which is mate crazy, right? Like it's entertainment, but
you see them and you're like, my God.
Mason Sawyer (07:13)
Yeah, most people
get off work and they want to read a book or go golf or go to the gym. He just wants to get punched in the face, but...
Kristina Katsanevas (07:18)
Yeah,
someone strangled me and threw me to the ground.
Mason Sawyer (07:21)
Yeah,
and so he starts fighting and he's winning some, losing some. And he's a good wrestler, so if he gets a hold of him, he's in good shape, but he just can't box. He's not a boxer, he's never done it. He just doesn't really have the skill for it, but he wants to get better. So he starts picking up boxing matches. And as he's training and picking up these fights, he fractures his hand, so he can't really train anymore. He's in his...
Kristina Katsanevas (07:29)
Thanks.
.
Mason Sawyer (07:49)
I don't know, mid-30s, so he's getting older. He's got three kids, so he's thinking about hanging it up. So a couple months go by, he's just working his day job. He's got a fractured hand. And then the number one amateur boxer in the world
is making his professional debut in Madison Square Garden. So what that means is this guy's really good. If he wins one more fight, he can now pick up professional fight. He's a professional fighter.
And so the guy he's supposed to fight in Madison Square Garden has to drop out last second. And they really want this fight to go through because he's ready to go pro. And so they're just trying to find someone and no one wants to fight this dude last minute because he'll mess you up. And so they finally call my brother's trainer out in Utah and they're like, hey, will you come box this guy? And he's like, no, I'm not boxing that guy. And they're like, do you know anyone?
Kristina Katsanevas (08:31)
You're going get hurt
Mason Sawyer (08:44)
that would fight him and he's like, I might know a guy. So he calls my brother Race, he has this fractured hand and he's like, will you fight this guy? And he's like, my brother Race is like, you're telling me I get a free trip to New York with my family? And I get to box in Madison Square mean Madison Square Garden is the mecca of boxing. And so he's like, yeah, like I'm there. And he's like, no, you gotta know who you're fighting for. And he's like, no, like sign me up.
Kristina Katsanevas (08:58)
Yeah, let's try.
Yeah.
Mason Sawyer (09:13)
So, Race gets to New York with his family and they go to weigh-ins and he's 12 pounds overweight. And this is just, it sounds weird, but if you know my brother, it's just perfect. Like, this is so him. And they're
mad at him. Like, hey, this fight needs to happen. We flew you here. You said you could do it. Like, we need a fighter. And so my brother Race tells him, he's like, listen.
I cut weight all the time in high school as a wrestler. I'm going go back to my hotel. I'll be right back. So he goes back to his hotel and he goes to the bathroom and he cranks the shower as hot as it will go. And then he kind of stuffs the door with, you know, blankets, whatever he's got. Creates a sauna and just puts on hoodies and sweats for about 10 minutes. And he goes out and goes on a run and then back to the hotel and sweats. And he does that over and over until he drops 12 pounds.
Kristina Katsanevas (09:45)
Yeah.
It's
Mason Sawyer (10:09)
goes back to weigh-ins and he makes weigh-ins. So he's able to get some food in right after weigh-ins and then that night is the fight.
Kristina Katsanevas (10:18)
on.
Mason Sawyer (10:19)
So you have my brother Race who just lost 12 pounds, hasn't been training, coming off a fractured hand, just traveled to the... And even if Race was fully healthy and training, not a great boxer, he's not even great at boxing. That's not even what he does.
Kristina Katsanevas (10:23)
Yeah.
And he's
featuring in Madison Square.
Mason Sawyer (10:37)
Yeah,
it's it's just insane. It's just crazy. And so he steps into the ring with this guy and the fight ends, ding, ding. And, make him go to the hospital after and he's got black eyes and he's got cuts on his face and he's got broken ribs. And, and Race said the worst part was his tongue. He almost bit his tongue off. Just taking so many of these punches. And it's funny because as a motivator motivational speaker, I
I usually use this story in most of my speaking events. And when I get to the story, they think race is going to win. Like they think that's why I'm there. Like they think race is going to pull us off. This is why he's a motivator. No, like race got obliterated. He lost so badly. But the reason I love the story is, well, the referee left him a wonderful email. That's just beautiful that I love.
Kristina Katsanevas (11:12)
You
Mason Sawyer (11:30)
And then my brother race went every second of every round and finished the fight. And usually in boxing after each round, you go to the corner and you talk strategy, like look out for the hook or I don't know, whatever. I'm not a boxer. But with race and his trainer, Tim, they just were kind of looking at each other like, Jesus, like this guy is good. Like, And so all the race told his, his.
Kristina Katsanevas (11:35)
Do we not let you die?
Mason Sawyer (11:58)
Trainer
Tim was, hey, you cannot throw in that white towel. Like, you promised me you do not throw in that white towel. He's either going KO me and you're dragging me out of here or I'm going the distance. But if you throw in that white towel, then I lost. Don't do it. And, you know, a couple years later, Race was in the car with my family and car accident took his life and his youngest son's life.
Kristina Katsanevas (12:06)
Boom.
Next.
Thank
Mason Sawyer (12:26)
and my wife Kortni's life and my son Riggins
life and my daughter Frankie's life. And so I just compare what I'm experiencing in grief with my brother race in that fight is because I can't win. Meaning I'm never, I'm not, I'm not going to get any of them back. That there's not a podcast I can do a good deed done that I can do to bring any of them back. So I'm going to lose.
Kristina Katsanevas (12:40)
Okay.
Mason Sawyer (12:51)
absolutely nothing I can do to change that. And just like my brother Race,
like not only am I going to lose every day, but I'm going to get my ass kicked. it's terrible. Like the guilt and the shame and the sadness and the grief and the anxiety. It's, it's, it's hard. And I think one thing I'm learning is you can know you're going to lose.
but how you fight still matters. And if you can get a punch in, can you go the distance? And for me, I mean, I seriously consider taking my, I don't know if that's true, but I thought about taking my own life so many times. But just this thought of, I am going die one day. Like the last round will hit. Like the final bell of the boxing match will happen one day.
Kristina Katsanevas (13:14)
Mm.
Mason Sawyer (13:40)
Can I go the distance? And that's a goal I have. And as I've continued to stay in the fight and do things, I've been able to help a lot of people. I would trade all of it to have
Frankie back for one day. And that's the other thing. When I say you're going lose, like for the rest of my life, every good feeling and moment I have is just shared with misery and pain and regret.
Kristina Katsanevas (13:57)
you.
Mason Sawyer (14:05)
anger because you know any good moment with blue I should also be having with Frankie and Riggs and kortni and like it's just this I can just get caught up in so much negativity and anger but again my brother's story of trying to fight I think he's I think it means I gotta try to be happy again I think that's one of the hardest parts of grief is not just the misery of it but feeling worthy to go be happy again is
Kristina Katsanevas (14:32)
you
deserve it.
Mason Sawyer (14:32)
Yeah,
it's been really hard, but it's a great story from my brother, Race, and I really look up to him.
Kristina Katsanevas (14:36)
It's
an amazing story and it really does resonate from you, but it's also a really relatable story out where there's two things here for me with that whole story with you. First of all, it's race's perspective. People are going in and people go through life, I feel, and they might look...
Simon Sinek actually has a really good analogy too, where people will go in and it says free bagels, but there's a really long line. He said the story of her. He's with a guy. Simon's like, there's free bagels. Look, I want a free bagel. He sees the free bagels. His friend next to him goes, look at the line, the line. And it's the same as your brother, where everyone had like, they'd asked other people for this boxing and their perspective was, I'm going to get destroyed. I'm going to get hurt or I'm not going to win.
But they're missing the journey in between because life is just the journey, right? It's everyone's always trying to get to this end result, but it's always the journey. Your brother, fuck the end result. He was like, I'm getting a free holiday. My friends are coming in. My family's coming in New York. his perspective was spot on. he wasn't going about the negative. He went, what's all the learnings, the good things.
Mason Sawyer (15:42)
Hahaha.
Wow, yeah.
Kristina Katsanevas (15:53)
and the resilience he showed and then the no white towel just like you said he didn't even think about what he couldn't control which was the fact this guy was going pro like that's out of his control
Mason Sawyer (16:04)
Yeah, yeah, just,
wow, I love that input so much, because it's so true. And yeah, that's how crazy my brother Race was. Like he thought he won. Like he won. Like he won. He got a free trip to New York with his family. God, like.
Kristina Katsanevas (16:16)
Exactly. He's
in Madison. He's like a star.
Mason Sawyer (16:22)
Yeah, like,
and that's what I love about him. Like, he just always cheered for the underdog and he always just, yeah, he was like that. And man, that's such a good point. And it's so true. And yeah.
Kristina Katsanevas (16:33)
But you're
doing exactly the same thing, Mason. You're doing exactly the
Mason Sawyer (16:36)
Well, that's why I the story is like it's so relatable. Like, man,
I'm, this is so good. Cause I'm going to get beat up by talking about it it's going to hurt.
Kristina Katsanevas (16:43)
Yeah,
you're ripping it open, but then in the same time, the butterfly effect that you're having, you see that really, and you'd see a lot of it, and I think a lot of people would come to you a lot, which is actually, I see people in certain industries where you would have a lot of people putting their...
their situations, their scenarios, their feelings and everything to you because they're looking for help too, which actually stacks on your shoulders as well. So you're taking on this extra weight. But then also, I believe and I've seen where really shitty things happen in life and really, really, really shitty things and people go two ways. But then it's like.
an organ donor or whatever, when an organ donor comes and they donate their organs, they save a life and they'll never know it. But then it's the analogy of the train, if you've ever seen where it's, can choose which way the train goes and there's one person on one track and there's a bunch on the other track. And it's like, who do you choose? And it's like, I feel like right now you're constantly moving the track to you and you're saving all these people that are on the other one just by talking about it, just by getting up every day.
Mason Sawyer (17:39)
Yeah.
Kristina Katsanevas (17:52)
just by getting that black eye tomorrow, you might be nearly biting your tongue off. But, and some days you might actually get a win and you feel good. But it's, guess the story and the message out to a lot of people is that don't throw in the white towel and keep going because the, effort will compound. I believe that. I said that all the time when I'm having, and I can't even complain half of what all relate to what you're going through, but I'm always like, will compound. So I do love that.
Mason Sawyer (17:55)
Yeah.
Kristina Katsanevas (18:18)
little blue looks like an absolute weapon. Do you mind if I
Mason Sawyer (18:22)
Go ahead. You can ask me anything.
Kristina Katsanevas (18:23)
Okay,
okay, great, great, great. Because I've been watching, stuff you do when you've got it out there. And I was watching him, you had him powering on some motorbike? He's on a motorbike, he's in basketball, he's fish, like he's the boy of boys. I've got two young boys. And I'm watching him and I'm like, weapon you're a coach. you already into him of going, all right, like, coach dad, let's get your basketball techniques?
Or are you a bit more relaxed?
Mason Sawyer (18:53)
man, like this is one of the differences of of like Mason before the car accident Mason after like I raised Blue a lot differently now But you're right, we do everything fishing dirt biking skateboarding one-wheeling he's got a go-kart so and then he plays sports very active boy But no, I mean man like I used to
Kristina Katsanevas (19:03)
I want to look at that.
Mason Sawyer (19:17)
Like Frankie was going to be a basketball star. Like she was going to train with her brothers and I was going to like, I could just see it and like people think I'm weird, but I'm like looking at how she's moving as a two year old and like, wow, she's pretty athletic. Man. And I think I used to just, I think I used to find my own credibility as a father with how good my kids were doing things. how good they were at basketball would reflect how good of
Kristina Katsanevas (19:23)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Mason Sawyer (19:45)
basketball player and coach and parent. I like I just thought that for some reason.
Kristina Katsanevas (19:45)
Apparently we're. A lot of parents do though. They live in the shadow of their kids. Let's put it that way of going and their whole life starts revolve around their kid and it's ⁓ that it's.
Mason Sawyer (19:55)
Yeah, sure, yeah.
Yeah.
Kristina Katsanevas (20:00)
It's very common.
Mason Sawyer (20:02)
Yeah, I mean, losing a kid is absolute hell and don't wish it upon anyone. But I've learned a lot. And one of the things I've learned is just less is more. And I used to do so I used to do everything for my I mean, I used to do so much for my kids like baby and now blue like you got it. I mean, it's more just showing him and letting him make mistakes and letting him fall down and letting him do those things. And
Kristina Katsanevas (20:13)
Mm.
Mason Sawyer (20:30)
I think another thing I've noticed is, kids are just monkey see monkey do. And so like whatever I'm doing and saying, he is picking up on it. and then just, I just want him to do whatever he wants in terms of what makes him happy. And right now he's trying a little bit of everything. and it's fun to see, but now before I would have told him, Hey, we got, we're practicing basketball every day. And now it's like, Hey, what should we do? And it.
Kristina Katsanevas (20:34)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mason Sawyer (20:55)
It's a little bit different every day. Yeah.
Kristina Katsanevas (20:56)
Have some fun. I was wondering that actually. I was curious. I think I saw him and it was such a dad-son thing where he was rocketing somewhere and I was like, my God. And I think you must be behind on your own skateboard or something.
Mason Sawyer (21:11)
Yeah.
Kristina Katsanevas (21:13)
And then the thought popped into my head and I was like, interesting. I feel like you don't know, but would you go, some people, and you've just answered the question, go to ways of going. And it's really good that you got that perspective of not helicoptering parenting, wanting to wrap blue in cotton wool, put him in a corner, don't move. I want you to stay there. Whereas you're actually embracing life for him and letting him really live and enjoy it.
it for what it's worth is what you're saying is what people need to do out there because I feel like that could be a good lesson for anyone listening to not.
Mason Sawyer (21:45)
Yeah, I think so. just really, it's going to sound weird, but being a good listener to my kid, like actually really listening to their feelings and what they're saying and eye contact and phone down and really engaging with them, I think just means so much to them. Just to be seen and to be heard, I think is really, important.
Kristina Katsanevas (22:08)
It is mainly what they want. They just want a little bit of attention and a little bit of love. Someone just give me a little bit of attention and a little bit of love.
Mason Sawyer (22:14)
Don't we all? Like that's what we all want.
No, seriously,
it sounds so weird, but that's what me and Sammy tell each other. we're going treat our kid how we want to be treated. Like, I'd never yell at Blue because I wouldn't know, I don't want anyone to yell at me. Like, I just treat Blue how, yeah, the golden rule. yeah. Yeah. We have a special relationship, obviously, from what we've been through and yeah, we're best buddies.
Kristina Katsanevas (22:28)
Yeah.
It's like...
That's nice, that's good.
Yeah, it would be tight.
On your grief journey, I've seen that you do tattooing. So like, is A, did you have much before the accident or really? No. Right, okay. And then.
Mason Sawyer (22:51)
yeah. ⁓
I had zero. Not one.
Yeah,
I've gotten covered. I mean, I got ankles to wrists, chest, sternum done in three years. So I've been putting in the work.
Kristina Katsanevas (23:11)
Do you,
what was your first one? And I guess what's the process you're going through when you're getting it done? Or is there specific things you're getting?
Mason Sawyer (23:19)
The first one I got was on my upper thigh was live wild for my brother race because that was his motto and It was hard for me to know what to get for Kortni Riggins and Frankie because they just they didn't have a motto so it's just really easy to pick live wild for race and So that was my first one Man like I'm just going have to get dark for a minute, but like
Part of me just really hates myself and isn't happy that I wasn't in the car with them. So tattooing was like a it was a socially acceptable way to just put myself through a lot of pain and just, I like that feeling of that pain. It was really...
Kristina Katsanevas (24:04)
Yeah.
Mason Sawyer (24:07)
I don't know what the right word is. Spiritual might not be the right... Well, I don't know. It was very spiritual, therapeutic, awful. But I would, yeah, I would get tattoos of them and just think of them and the pain they went through in that car crash and what they might have seen and how horrifying it was probably for them. And I wasn't there. And yeah, just kind of taking that out on myself.
Kristina Katsanevas (24:26)
Hmm.
Mason Sawyer (24:34)
And then I, you know, it, think for everyone getting a tattoo, it's hard to know what to get. Um, but when you lose your wife and two kids, brother and nephew, you have a lot of things you can get. So I had a lot, I don't know, I was just, had a lot of ideas for them that meant a lot to me. And I'm obviously going to remember them forever. And I don't know, I just felt like tattoos were a cool way to honor them and putting them on my skin, just carrying them with me wherever I go. Um, and then.
Kristina Katsanevas (24:36)
Mm.
Okay.
Mason Sawyer (25:03)
I guess just outside of the grief and trauma, I just really like tattoos. think tattoo artists are amazing and what they're able to do on people's skin, I think,
just, it just baffles my mind. Like, I think it's so cool. So I have that part too. I think I just like tattoos. So that's
Kristina Katsanevas (25:20)
Yeah,
you've grown into the art and the craft. I appreciate anyone who's really good at their craft, doesn't matter what it is. So the tattoo artists, when you see them like on the skin, you know, to a rock band to yourself, who's now motivational speaking, just anyone who hones in and doubles down on their craft, their mission, their why, I think is an amazing thing.
Mason Sawyer (25:22)
Yeah.
Kristina Katsanevas (25:45)
It is the whole grief journey of what people go through from whatever they are is different for everyone. And for you you had to have the extreme And I guess that's something that you have to work through. day in day out year in, year out that you said you just said it, how you feel guilty that you weren't in the car.
But do you in the same ever thought, because when you said that, my thought was, but you could never have been in the car, because who would have, who would be with Blue right now? if you had have been in the car, then Blue would be on his own. And so he always would have lived. He was in it. He was always going to live. So that's why you weren't in the car. that's where my head just went.
Mason Sawyer (26:19)
Yeah.
Kristina Katsanevas (26:26)
but Blue's a legend like look at him go he needs he needs you because someone would have been wrapping him in cotton wool if he was with anyone else he couldn't have been with anyone else.
Mason Sawyer (26:34)
Wow.
Yeah, they probably would have. I didn't really think.
Kristina Katsanevas (26:37)
They would
have been so protective and scared and they wouldn't have given the perspective that you have because they'd be like, my job is to now put this kid in a corner and keep him, quote unquote, safe.
Mason Sawyer (26:48)
Yeah.
Yeah, haven't, I mean, I've thought a lot about if, you know, if Blue didn't make it, but I've never really thought about that, if someone else raised him, how they would do it. Yeah, I never really.
Kristina Katsanevas (27:01)
You were it. You were it. Now, How do you deal with Mason with the you've got the resilience, the mental health and personal growth. So just getting through that, you talk of it a lot.
Mason Sawyer (27:02)
Yeah, that was it.
Kristina Katsanevas (27:17)
Do you have strategies or steps just to start or if you'd see people spiraling you've spiraled we've all spiraled. And it's that self awareness to be able to have that power of the mind and the self-awareness to go stop I'm either at bottom or I don't want to keep going on you've got to go back up. what's your feedback to others
to try and help them through a journey of grief.
Mason Sawyer (27:38)
Yeah, I think talking about it is just the number one thing that I believe in. And it's hard because at first, I mean, I remember when I, it took me so long to talk about it. But I remember when I finally first started talking about it, that it made it worse. It made it worse. Like I felt worse. And it was awful. And I even had the thought like, why am I doing this? Like this sucks.
Kristina Katsanevas (27:54)
Mm.
Mason Sawyer (28:02)
but as I continue to go to therapy and just figure out how I'm going to handle this grief, I discovered that with the pain of talking about them comes the joy and the life we had and the memories and it kept them alive and the pain is a reflection of the love. and then I, and then I started to discover that when I talked about him, cried about him and went there, it was much easier for me to.
Kristina Katsanevas (28:21)
Hmm.
Mason Sawyer (28:29)
laugh at a joke, to go to a movie, to play with my son, to start dating again. I just felt if I honored the pain and talked about it, I don't know, it just made it easier for me to continue on and feel like I deserve to be happy and I don't have to constantly just be hating myself and hating my life and hating what happened to my family and...
Kristina Katsanevas (28:31)
Thank you.
Mason Sawyer (28:53)
just being angry about it because Kortni was, my wife Kortni was the, I mean every guy says that about their wife but she was so nice and just so good and doesn't deserve any of it. And then my kids too so,
Kristina Katsanevas (28:53)
No.
Mason Sawyer (29:08)
I don't know I think just expressing my pain, I just feel closer to them. When I do public speaking I get to show pictures of them.
And that just means a lot to me, just traveling around and I just get to talk about them for a little bit. I think it's a great way to keep them alive and honor them. So that'd my first thing is talk about it. And it's scary because, I mean, I don't know what it's like over there, but the culture over here is people don't like to hear it. People don't, they don't want to hear it. They are very uncomfortable. They don't know what to say. They don't know what to do.
Kristina Katsanevas (29:18)
Cause it's going be.
Mason Sawyer (29:46)
when someone's crying in pain or a dead kid or loved one. So I think it's really hard for people who need to talk because you need to find a good listener. And that's hard to find. Not a lot of people want to listen. Especially as the months and years go by and people
Kristina Katsanevas (29:51)
Yeah.
Mason Sawyer (30:03)
start to feel like, I still talk about it? Can I still be sad about it? Is this normal? And so I think finding a good therapist or friend or I don't know, any outlet, someone who would listen.
Kristina Katsanevas (30:10)
Sorry.
Mason Sawyer (30:15)
I think it's really important. so, I don't know, maybe someone listening, it's important to be a good listener. And that's something my podcast has taught me is,
you know, you can re you can relate to this, but when you started a podcast, I felt like I mean, I got to think of things to say, cause there's a microphone in front of my face. So why would you come up with things to say? And as I interviewed these people, I'm like, I just, like, I just need to listen.
Kristina Katsanevas (30:32)
Yeah.
Mason Sawyer (30:41)
because there's absolutely nothing I can do to fix it or help them relieve their pain. They're going be hurting forever. But if I can just listen and let them feel validated in their pain and express it and talk about their dead kid or spouse or brother, whoever it is, I think it helps them be the same thing it did for me, which is continue to keep going and you can smile and you can have a good moment and have a good life still.
Kristina Katsanevas (31:00)
.
You can and you deserve it but you said something, I love that, you were saying you want to honour the pain. People need to not bury the pain in that, in what you want to do. I know I want to do if something's hurting, you know, bury it deep so that it's nowhere near. And then the question that you put out,
to people if they're thinking, because it obviously goes through your head, goes through everyone's head is, can I talk about this still? Is it too long? Is this normal? Normal's a shitty word, in my opinion. you want to be out there, but you want to not be too far out there. But whatever you're feeling is validated in your situation.
Find your listener and if that person's not listening, go find another because they are out there and people are wanting to help people. and like you say, you've got to learn to live with both where you're actually fighting yourself to not feel guilty for having a moment of happiness because you are still living and you know that Kortni and Frankie would be really sad if you were sad all the time and you weren't.
when you were having a good time with Blue, not being happy in that moment. it's, there's something you put on and this got me, got me Mason. But then it was also a really good reality check where, now I'm be able to say this. 10 days before the accident put a post on Facebook.
And 10 days before an accident, so everyone's living life, we're all living life, you're living life with your wife and your beautiful, God, they're cute kids. you took, and if I've read this right, you took your wife, you took the day off school, you took your coach, you took, or you missed a game for your wife's birthday, Kortni's birthday, and you were praising her. were openly.
on socials telling other, I forget the exact words, but you were just saying, this is how much I love you because I took the, you chose her to take the time off 10 days before the accident. You don't know what's happening in 10 days time. And I'm like, I wondered in my mind, did you ever, well, you wouldn't have back then when it happened because of what happened, but I looked at that and when, when people say I'm too busy or they always choose work or they always choose
the unimportant and you 10 days before were like oh I gave up the game I'm here with you that shows how much I love you and I was like oh it just
gave perspective again to.
Mason Sawyer (33:35)
I, I totally forgot about that, I know exactly what you're talking about now. We were on a beach. yeah. And I, I guess it was the NBA playoffs. It was the, don't remember. I remember saying that I don't remember what game, but I totally remember that now. And that makes me feel good because I totally, totally forgot about that.
Kristina Katsanevas (33:48)
Hehehe. Hehehe. ⁓
But
yeah, the time you had together, you were there, you were present, you made it count. And I think that was really important for me that one post, You put it out there. And I think to me that showed extra affection to go.
this is how much I love you because I just gave up. Basketball's my life, you're my life, but basketball's my life. I gave up my game to go to the beach just to be with you. And I was like, you know, so you didn't have, you've got no regret there of that. You didn't try or anything like that because right there was evidence that how much it was all there. So I was just, I just thought that was really special.
Mason Sawyer (34:32)
Yeah, I
really enjoyed this convo because I liked your perspective on Race's story. I think it's super cool and spot on. And then yeah, I totally forgot about that Facebook post, but yeah, wow, that's really cool.
Kristina Katsanevas (34:48)
Yeah, you're special.
Mason Sawyer (34:51)
And you know, I think we're all going die, like that's certain. And I think the one thing we can only do to combat that idea is you gotta live, like you gotta live. And yeah, think we did that. Kortni and I had a great marriage. We were high school sweethearts. So she was the only love of my life since I was 15. And we had it good. Yeah, we had, I mean, it wasn't perfect, but.
Kristina Katsanevas (34:54)
Okay.
Thank you.
No one is.
Mason Sawyer (35:17)
We're damn close, like we had it good.
And I love her and I miss her.
Kristina Katsanevas (35:21)
Yeah, yeah, he had a beautiful, a beautiful chapter together. You had a beautiful, beautiful chapter together. ⁓
Mason Sawyer (35:25)
You know, it's just, you she was,
she's just better than me, you know, and that's what makes it weird. Yeah. just makes it so confusing and weird. Like if one, should have been me. Like she was so great, but yeah.
Kristina Katsanevas (35:31)
Every man listening right now, please, you could just repeat that.
But
I mean, another way to look at it, see, I get why you think that and everything, maybe, I don't know, I feel like the universe works in a really fucked up way sometimes. And the impact and the lives you're changing, think of the train tracks again, is more impactful with you here and with what happened at the of the road, like, because you can't change it, right? So.
But she looked amazing, she was beautiful. You guys were very cute. it was like, I was like, and then it obviously breaks your heart more because you do, but you can start to spiral, like I say, like even in my head, I'm like, why? there's this, da, but that's out of your control. So we look at the perspective of I've got a free trip to New York always.
Mason Sawyer (36:13)
Thank you so much,
Yeah.
Kristina Katsanevas (36:32)
Whenever you think of one thing you're just like, no, I've got, this is the free trip to New York perspective.
Mason Sawyer (36:36)
Well, it's funny
that you say that because I'm no longer scared of death. It does not bother me. I have a lot of people I want to see over there. So yeah, that's a perspective, too. I'm playing with how my life is just a free trip on planet Earth. Because I'm ready to go whenever.
Kristina Katsanevas (36:47)
Yeah.
And that is such a... And you don't wish it on anyone, but if we could take your perspective and live the life, people would actually live a life. Like so many people are going through doing the same thing day in and day out for 75 years and calling it a life. And that is not a life. They're waiting until the weekend to enjoy...
a few hours instead of enjoying what they do at work. And that's not a life. They're living through the lens of their children and their children don't even want to do what they're making them do because they didn't make the choices they wanted to be where they want. And that's not a life. Whereas you are now, like you say, free agent. You're not scared of death. And so you're making all the decisions and doing what you want to do and that's
That's something I think I want to feed that energy off into me, into anyone listening, going to stop being too scared of losing some money in that decision in the investment. Stop being scared to.
Mason Sawyer (37:54)
Well, I mean,
I think a good example is the podcast I started. Never in a million years before the car accident would I ever even have the idea to share any emotion I had ever online with anyone ever. would never, I would never. I cared way too much for other people's thought. And now it's like not even, I don't even think about it. Because another thing I've learned is the minute you die, the world's going to keep spinning.
Kristina Katsanevas (38:08)
I'm kidding, right?
Mason Sawyer (38:20)
And most people are going to forget your name after a month and a hundred years after that, no one's going to remember your name. Like, so what that means to me is you got to be in the moment today and you got to live your life and do what you want to do. And that's been a very free liberating feeling that I do love about my new self. it just, I mean, I would trade it all back to have.
Kristina Katsanevas (38:45)
Yeah, yeah.
Mason Sawyer (38:46)
I'd rather be in ignorance with my family and just take it for granted.
I had this thought the other day, but it's like, think about that. Like all the life lessons I've learned through grief, which are great. I would give them all up in a second to get one of them back. And so like to me, that just shows you like growth of life and learning and growing and all that stuff that we love to do.
I would trade it all for a relationship. Like that's how important relationships are. That's the number one thing in your life. Everything else, nothing else is close. Like go Google it if you don't believe me. What are the top five things that make people happy? Relationships is going be at the top of the list every time. And I think when you lose relationships like wife and kids that hurt so bad, you just, there's part of you that starts to really understand.
Kristina Katsanevas (39:22)
Yeah. ⁓
Mason Sawyer (39:39)
how valuable a relationship
is and not take it for granted. And I just think that's super cool. It's not the destination or the journey, it's the people you're with, that you're doing it with. That's the number one thing.
Kristina Katsanevas (39:52)
That's pretty, that's really powerful. That's actually really powerful. If people could just, listening, could replay that about five times to go.
Mason Sawyer (40:03)
Yeah, like, master's
degree, your doctorate degree won't make you as happy as having a good relationship with your son or daughter. Taking him to the park, hitting a bucket of balls, like, it's not even close. It's not even close. Yeah.
Kristina Katsanevas (40:08)
You.
It's the relationships you build. And it doesn't have to be, if you've got a shitty family, some people do go seek out your people, go seek out your community, you know, find your listeners, find your people.
Don't hang out with shitty people at work. Don't let them waste your energy. I'm big on that as well. When people come and they just want to vent and whinge and you give them a bit. But if they're constantly at you and whinging and complaining because they want, they feed off the drama, don't feed into it. It's your life, your energy, your relationships, your building.
Mason Sawyer (40:37)
Yeah.
Kristina Katsanevas (40:54)
that's so that's so powerful. People are willing to take it in and like embed it inside. That's been great. I've been loving everything. You're such a powerful person. You need to remember that.
Mason Sawyer (41:06)
Thank you.
Kristina Katsanevas (41:08)
It's not
many people would keep talking and keep the message. And I think you missed the point of just how many, how many people you'd be helping and you'll never know. Kortni and everyone lost their lives, but I reckon you've saved 10.
Mason Sawyer (41:25)
Yeah, I do get some cool messages sometimes that are really like, wow, like, thanks for sending this to me, that's really cool. You know, I...
I think everyone says, if I just help one person, it's worth it. And that was my mindset. So I don't pay attention to how many listeners our podcast even has. I'm just trying to stay true to that idea. And then I also hate, I didn't climb Mount Everest. didn't win a gold medal.
Kristina Katsanevas (41:46)
Thanks.
Mason Sawyer (41:55)
My, I didn't, so it's just weird getting compliments because I'm just trying to get through each day. And so it's it's just weird. It's a weird feeling.
Kristina Katsanevas (42:02)
Yeah.
It's about your vulnerability. It's your vulnerability. of the people you're helping it feels weird because I think in your head you feel like you don't deserve it, but you could have not done what you're doing. You could have not shared your message. You could have.
Mason Sawyer (42:07)
Yeah.
Well,
I was so close to doing that too. Like I was so close to just, yeah. And then I'm so glad that I decided to start a podcast because, lonely. I mean, I just felt so alone. Like I could be in a room full of my family supporting me, but just in my head, so alone and like alien, like no one, ugh. And so starting this podcast and meeting people that are going through things.
Kristina Katsanevas (42:35)
You feel dark. Yeah.
Mason Sawyer (42:43)
worse than me, like me, like it's just been, it's been so good for me to not feel so alone and have this community. I didn't know there was a community of Grievers, like until you're in it, like you just don't know about it really. But man, like it's a shitty group to be in, but the people in the group are awesome. And so that's one thing I've enjoyed too, just finding community through my pain.
Kristina Katsanevas (43:06)
Yeah, there's a, there's, there's people have people everywhere. They really do. And I think if people are out there listening and you do feel alone, your people are out there. And if you are grieving, like make sure you're listening to the 1090 podcast because your people are out there, your community's out there and no one's ever truly alone. If you choose, you've got to choose though. people are around them here, but it's up to you to not throw in the white towel
Mason Sawyer (43:33)
Yeah, no, think, I mean, help helps available, but it's got you got to be willing to ask for it. And until that, until that happens, until you really want to make your life better, it's just, it's just hard. I don't know how you do it honestly, until that individual finds the desire,
Kristina Katsanevas (43:37)
Okay.
Mmm.
Well, it is a good thing to message to get out there. You have got a beautiful support network and Sammy in your life I see, Blues just kicking goals, you're changing lives. So I do appreciate, I really do appreciate it. Now I'm in Australia so your message is going far and
Mason Sawyer (44:07)
and that's
Kristina Katsanevas (44:14)
This has been amazing. You have I tried really hard to not even have tears but that didn't work you are phenomenal. everything you are doing phenomenal. You're raising blue to be an absolute weapon.
of a dude and I can't wait to see what he's like as a teenager driving cars, playing basketball, wrestling, God knows what, but he's going to be climbing Mount Everest. He's going to be out there. And I just think keep on keeping on and keep giving your message out there because the butterfly effect of what you are doing is so far beyond even what you can comprehend.
Mason Sawyer (44:34)
Yeah, I might be trouble. I would be great.
Kristina Katsanevas (44:50)
and that is why you're here and you're doing what you're doing. So I really appreciate it. So from me and all my listeners, thank you. Thank you for being on Transforming the Game.
Mason Sawyer (44:59)
Well, thanks for having me on. I really enjoyed it.