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NET Society is unraveling the latest in digital art, crypto, AI, and tech. Join us for fresh insights and bold perspectives as we tap into wild, thought-provoking conversations. By: Derek Edwards (glitch marfa / collab+currency), Chris Furlong (starholder, LAO + Flamingo DAO), and Aaaron Wright & Priyanka Desai (Tribute Labs)
00;00;00;00 - 00;00;34;26
Pri
We have Colby on today. Founder and CEO of merge. Obviously bringing, you know, chip product to amazing and IRL experiences. So thanks for coming on, Colby. I like excited dig into merge two. But before we do that, do we want to talk about what we were just discussing, which was like Walton or.
00;00;34;29 - 00;00;37;17
Chris
You on to you want to bank with Sam?
00;00;37;20 - 00;00;44;23
Aaron
Oh, man. What would that be? Do you think that happens? I mean, there's going to be the stablecoin bill. Does Walmart get a stablecoin?
00;00;44;25 - 00;00;47;04
Pri
Well, that's what the Wall Street Journal reported this morning.
00;00;47;04 - 00;00;54;22
Colby
I think banking is maybe the only industry they haven't yet sort of tackled. Yeah I have a footprint in.
00;00;54;25 - 00;00;56;01
Aaron
And welcome.
00;00;56;04 - 00;01;05;27
Colby
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm a huge fan of the show and obviously personally a fan of each one of you. And I'm excited to be here. So thanks so much.
00;01;06;00 - 00;01;13;10
Chris
Colby. Would you spend an Walton Bucks if you could get a discount on a pallet? A shaman?
00;01;13;12 - 00;01;14;29
Colby
What I love to do.
00;01;15;01 - 00;01;16;04
Aaron
What's the discount?
00;01;16;06 - 00;01;24;19
Chris
Yeah, I don't know, like, I mean, they already have everyday low prices. How low can they go if you're, I guess wiping out their visa fee?
00;01;24;21 - 00;01;27;17
Colby
I feel like there's a Sam's Club tie in here, too.
00;01;27;20 - 00;01;36;09
Chris
I just think it's funny that, like, crypto is turned into, like, standing payment and or ops. It's like, come on, dorks. You know? But I mean.
00;01;36;10 - 00;01;39;27
Pri
Single Point has found product market fit. It's actually kind of crazy.
00;01;39;29 - 00;01;50;25
Chris
I mean, we we've been talking about it for a while, but I think this week it's really clearly coming into focus and everyone's starting to get, got is this the worst vibe shift ever?
00;01;51;02 - 00;01;57;14
Aaron
This is the vibe shift we've been all waiting for, Chris. This is when they were talking about that a year and a half ago. This is what they meant.
00;01;57;16 - 00;02;22;18
Chris
Yeah. I mean, I don't know, do you see, any video or, pictures from Coinbase's show yesterday? It was just so empty. You know, was that Christie's minimalism? It looked like they were in purgatory up on stage. I mean, a very well crafted purgatory, but crypto purgatory, that's what stablecoins are. I mean, you know, stablecoin doesn't go up.
00;02;22;18 - 00;02;23;14
Chris
It doesn't go down.
00;02;23;14 - 00;02;27;01
Pri
It's purgatory or that crypto purgatory was Puerto Rico.
00;02;27;05 - 00;02;35;14
Chris
That's a self-imposed exile. If you need, you know, if you're really, really concerned about your, your tax bill there.
00;02;35;16 - 00;02;52;06
Pri
No, I was just joking. I feel like that's more crypto jail. I feel like the way people talk about it is like, you know, two more months time in Puerto Rico, and then I'll come visit you guys in New York. I'm just like, all right, like what? What are you doing? But anyway, sorry to go back to the stablecoin stuff.
00;02;52;08 - 00;03;01;11
Pri
Yeah, it's kind of big news. And, like, even the straight purview thing. That was a big acquisition that happened this week. That's that's notable, right? Like, for me being acquired by stripe, I mean, they dirty did.
00;03;01;19 - 00;03;21;25
Aaron
I think so I think it's a little confusing what Stripe's going to do. Like are they going to just roll out with for all their customers like digital asset wallets? Are they going to have like a unified stablecoin or are they going to, you know, enable that for the customers and clients and other folks that use stripe? Like it's still a little bit unclear to me.
00;03;21;27 - 00;03;38;27
Aaron
It feels like they want to adopt like a bottoms up crypto approach. And I don't know if that's the right approach or it's going to be like more top down from, let's say, like larger tech giants that may be exploring with state or exploring stablecoins or I guess, Walmart or some other or established institutions.
00;03;39;00 - 00;03;57;22
Colby
I was excited to see this news the other day. We've been working with Privy as our wallet provider kind of backend for the last six months, and we've had a great experience with them. I'm, you know, super impressed by their different integrations. And, I was excited excited to see the news the other day.
00;03;57;24 - 00;04;02;28
Aaron
You know, Chris, do you have a sense of what they're going to do or pre like how like what how do you think this all plays out?
00;04;03;00 - 00;04;26;25
Pri
I can't tell if it's just like a customer acquisition thing because there's like 75 million for me, you know, quote customers. I don't know if that's actually that many or if many people have like multiple privacy wallets or what the actual situation there is. But I feel like it's just a way to get like a, you know, embed them ourselves as stripe in more of a crypto wallet ecosystem like they already have bridge kind of helping with the stablecoin rails and all of that.
00;04;26;28 - 00;04;31;10
Pri
So why not try to, you know, go into the app layer a little bit more?
00;04;31;13 - 00;04;55;27
Chris
Yeah, this is this is all interrupt positioning from from my point of view. I mean, you know, stripe straight sits under things. It doesn't stand out in front. Certainly like increasing the range of solutions they can offer. And you know, the footprint of their customer base makes a lot of sense. I assume there'll be some sort of integration in which, you know, freebie wallets can can pay with credit card through stripe.
00;04;55;27 - 00;05;23;14
Chris
And then, you know, they'll do all the conversions under the hood. I mean, as someone who was playtesting over and starting that last week and, you know, it was like, oh my Lord, I just want to spend 20 bucks to buy, a game character and not have to figure out how to bridge over here. You know, I think there's a lot of just sort of like everyday transactional stuff where if you can, you know, just kind of sweep crypto away.
00;05;23;14 - 00;05;52;18
Chris
It'd be helpful. Like, certainly I know how to bridge the darknet, but in that moment, do I want to go and do that? No, I just want that magically handled. And so I think like a straight pretty tired, like that's the sort of like immediate problems I can solve. A bigger picture, though, like, yeah, I think this is this is all about like jostling for position and an interrupt landscape, you know, like get the get that piping, get those connections in place now and then see where it goes.
00;05;52;18 - 00;06;03;22
Chris
You know, Coinbase is news yesterday that, you know, Shopify was going to allow for like Usdc transactions very, very similar sort of I think, you know, positioning.
00;06;03;25 - 00;06;29;15
Pri
Yeah, totally. I mean, I feel like it's so funny how quickly this is all coming because it's like all coming at the heels of the circle IPO, too, which has performed like very well. And so it's kind of fun to, to see that, emerge too. And like, yeah, stablecoins are coming out with a bang. Over the past week, I feel like the only news I've heard is like stablecoin related, which is obviously not the most fun, but it's it's real.
00;06;29;15 - 00;06;46;05
Pri
And like even in conjunction with the stablecoin bill that we had, which obviously led to some positive momentum, I feel like even that market structure, bill clarity or whatever being passed in the House was notable too. So I feel like big week for the white man.
00;06;46;07 - 00;06;52;05
Chris
RWA man, I always say is winning. You can't beat RWA, man. He's ours.
00;06;52;07 - 00;07;18;21
Pri
Yeah, totally. Anyways. But yeah, I mean, I don't know where that leaves like a lot of the crypto app layer stuff like, and even NFTs, like, I'm wondering, you know, does there become a shift down into, like, whatever the, you know, what's one layer removed from like stablecoin, the price of crypto, it's like digital assets, like NFTs, like, where does that leave the NFT market or other things?
00;07;18;21 - 00;07;25;07
Pri
I feel like we're seeing a little bit of upward momentum there, which is, you know, great and nice to see.
00;07;25;10 - 00;07;52;05
Chris
Well, think about it this way. Pre the the second stage of the last bull brought in a lot of Fang people, a lot of mobile app people. And then I think as we saw that you know, choke .2.0 the dry up in the bull a lot of them pulled away. Yeah. And so maybe this repackaging into more I don't know like institutionally acceptable forms you're familiar with.
00;07;52;05 - 00;08;10;00
Chris
Plus moving a lot of this into, you know, an API or like a technology stack they're comfortable with. You know, it might be an invitation for them to return into the space or you know, they they can go, oh, I was just too early. And now this thing looks more like what I'm familiar with. Maybe I'll come back to it.
00;08;10;00 - 00;08;15;25
Chris
Is that a benefit to anyone? And is that answering your question? Probably not, but it's an interesting point.
00;08;15;28 - 00;08;17;16
Pri
Yeah I know.
00;08;17;18 - 00;08;25;17
Chris
Hey, Aaron, we were always talking about like 2004 because you and I are old dudes. We were there, we saw a vibe shift.
00;08;25;20 - 00;08;27;06
Aaron
What? The old heads. Chris.
00;08;27;08 - 00;08;29;00
Chris
We are old heads, man.
00;08;29;02 - 00;08;31;17
Pri
I'll call you on going forward on this podcast.
00;08;31;17 - 00;08;34;25
Aaron
I've been told that I'm on now for my OG.
00;08;34;28 - 00;08;42;08
Chris
I'm too old to even until I get the Uncle Abel dude, that's like. That's for like something. Zoomers. I don't even talk to Zoomers to call me OG.
00;08;42;11 - 00;08;44;10
Aaron
Your your grandson.
00;08;44;13 - 00;09;13;02
Chris
Okay. Thank anyway. Yeah, I was also on this call yesterday with my people, and they're like, yeah, talking about marketing, the animals, spirits returning and, you know, all, all this shit and I mean, it kind of does feel like that taste was, you know, coming in like 2005 up into the, the GFC. And it kind of felt like that pace when mobile apps really started cooking, maybe 2012 to 2016 ish.
00;09;13;02 - 00;09;16;24
Chris
Like, are you feeling that energy or a little bit now?
00;09;16;24 - 00;09;36;06
Aaron
I think I feel it. I mean, it's exciting. It's like these like these like deeper partnerships. I feel like being around digital assets or, you know, for a while it's always been about finance, getting excited about it. But now you're seeing other folks getting excited about it. Like to me that's a super strong sign. And it just, you know, it feels like this.
00;09;36;08 - 00;09;53;12
Aaron
What's it like? First they laugh at you, right? Then they get angry at you and then they accept it. It feels like there's like an almost like, broad acceptance that this is happening. And despite, like, reservations, like, it just kind of moving forward. And I just keep on hearing people talk about crypto, a digital asset, just like in a more passive way.
00;09;53;14 - 00;10;03;16
Aaron
Like, I'm such a news junkie. I was listening to something, you know, from The Times, one of their podcasts, and they were just like musing about digital assets like that would never have happened 18 months ago or two years ago.
00;10;03;19 - 00;10;04;19
Pri
What were they saying?
00;10;04;19 - 00;10;19;08
Aaron
Don't just like, you know, it's like happening like, you know. Yeah, you know Trump loves crypto. He does. I don't know if that's good or bad for the industry. I think reasonable minds could differ there. You know. But just the fact that they're like it's part of the conversation in the parlance, it's like, you know, something that's it's.
00;10;19;08 - 00;10;19;19
Pri
Become more.
00;10;19;19 - 00;10;35;24
Aaron
Accepted. Yeah. It's kind of like we're like in this acceptance phase, like just seeing it, you know, kind of rip through the House and Senate. These bills, which is not easy, right? Like Congress is not known to act at this point. And they're acting related to that. They feel like it's something that needs to be done is great.
00;10;35;28 - 00;10;55;29
Pri
So I feel like I'm NFT said things are like kind of like it's interesting because we're seeing like, obviously this is like major, more mainstream institutional level adoption around at least stablecoins and even like the market structure bill, but like what's kind of an interesting twist on there, like in our little small circle is obviously moon birds got bought by like whatever.
00;10;55;29 - 00;11;02;10
Pri
That's that entity. Like I always want to say orange is an orange cap. Yeah. What does that mean? I always like, forget the name, but it's like.
00;11;02;10 - 00;11;04;15
Chris
Orange gaming or something like that.
00;11;04;17 - 00;11;28;15
Pri
Yeah. And like one takes one to that. And then we like saucer G2 kind of take over, you know, me bits and like, that's been kind of fun to see. And we're seeing like this on tethering of these different apps. And I know we've talked about on the pod before, we're like, okay, let's think about like different hostile takeovers of of NFT assets or just, you know, people taking over and reviving the vision of these assets.
00;11;28;15 - 00;11;47;04
Pri
I feel like we're going to I feel like we're seeing more of that and like even and the reason I bring that up, too, is like Colby, I know that with me. But you guys are doing something with them. So like, they're even leaning into fashion fun stuff. Their lava labs like has amazing IP properties. So like, I don't know, I think it's kind of fun to think about.
00;11;47;07 - 00;11;55;22
Pri
We always think about NFTs as fashion, and now you're actually bringing fashion to one of the more like iconic assets.
00;11;55;25 - 00;12;27;21
Colby
Yeah, I mean, me bits of of all of them. I was really excited to work with. And I saw, you know, there's a clear through line, just given the importance of fashion to the collection as a whole. But I think the point that you raised is a great one with this sort of decoupling of these different collections of IP and it's, you know, something that you see similarly in fashion, these almost very kind of historical fashion houses and the transfer and acquisition, amongst the industry.
00;12;27;21 - 00;12;52;12
Colby
And I think in many ways, you know, when you think about the moon birds, when you think about cryptopunks, when you think about me bits, you know, those are the some of the earliest, most iconic collections. They are the Louis Vuitton's of the NFT space. So it's I'm always trying to look for parallels between, you know, two of the spaces that I'm most passionate about, which is, you know, Web3 and traditional fashion.
00;12;52;12 - 00;13;03;26
Colby
And you can definitely, definitely draw similarities just in terms of the ecosystem and how these transfers of, of IP and different acquisitions sort of support the ecosystem.
00;13;03;29 - 00;13;10;18
Chris
So Colby, you just called me, it's the Louis Vuitton of fashion that that's.
00;13;10;20 - 00;13;11;26
Pri
Maybe that's.
00;13;11;26 - 00;13;13;00
Chris
A bold statement.
00;13;13;02 - 00;13;13;24
Colby
Maybe.
00;13;13;26 - 00;13;15;23
Aaron
I mean, I'm here for that. Yeah.
00;13;15;26 - 00;13;18;23
Colby
I, we love me bits I.
00;13;18;23 - 00;13;20;13
Chris
Love you, me.
00;13;20;15 - 00;13;24;07
Colby
Excited. I'm excited to be working with the team. I love Serge Ito.
00;13;24;14 - 00;13;27;00
Aaron
I do too. I think he's doing a good job.
00;13;27;02 - 00;13;57;22
Colby
I think he's doing a great job. And yeah, I just I what I meant is that there's these iconic collections that in, in the world of, of Web3 and NFTs and digital assets, you know, even though they're, they're just a few years old, they are the icons of the space, similar to how these centuries old fashion brands are kind of seen as, as the icons and the most recognizable brands within the fashion space.
00;13;57;24 - 00;14;03;15
Chris
Yeah, no, I'm just being spacey, and I wanted to throw a curveball your way. And,
00;14;03;17 - 00;14;06;24
Colby
I love that you keep me on my toes. Thank you.
00;14;06;26 - 00;14;32;28
Chris
We've done a collab a no for and Flamingo move it has done a collab with no for this year and you working with me bitch. Now I got I'm thinking about merch and over and what I'm asking is I want like a 90s style ugly VR day. I want a sweatshirt that is heat activated and changes from whatever, you know, solid, drab color.
00;14;32;28 - 00;14;36;27
Chris
It is into like a wild no for style print.
00;14;37;00 - 00;14;49;21
Colby
I'm I'm here for that 100% on board, 100%. I've I've always thought like the the mood ring of the fashion world would be an interesting an interesting product to to try and create.
00;14;49;24 - 00;14;55;02
Chris
Is that fabric still out there. They still make that or is that gone the way of the the dodo?
00;14;55;05 - 00;15;01;22
Colby
You can find it. It's it's out there. It's out there. And and like I said, I'm here for it. Let's do it.
00;15;01;24 - 00;15;32;01
Pri
I actually really love that idea. Wait, I actually I'm thinking still more about what you said about like, NFTs versus like fashion brands. And like, obviously LVMH is a well-known like, fashion conglomerate. Basically, at this point, do you see a lot of like brands spin out of those? Like similar to what we're seeing now with like, NFTs? Because I feel like we've talked about this on Flamingo calls and elsewhere where like some of these NFTs do operate like fashion, like sometimes they're in vogue, sometimes they're not, and then they come back and like, you kind of see the similar patterns of what you see with like specific brands.
00;15;32;03 - 00;15;40;05
Pri
Do you actually see like a lot of brands, like leaving the big fashion, you know, conglomerate houses and then and then going off and doing their own thing.
00;15;40;11 - 00;16;03;16
Colby
Not the heritage brands per se, which, you know, not the not the Vuitton's, not the Gucci's, but sometimes the younger brands, you know, sometimes these larger conglomerates have taken a stake in a younger brand. And, you know, it's usually to install one of the, the creative director of the brand at one of their larger houses. And, and occasionally, if that doesn't work out, they spin those off.
00;16;03;19 - 00;16;08;15
Colby
But it's definitely yeah, the larger heritage brands, they're not they're not letting go of.
00;16;08;17 - 00;16;09;27
Pri
Yeah. Yeah that makes sense.
00;16;09;29 - 00;16;20;21
Chris
With that is the only way artifact sees a revival is if some some hotshot design designer at Nike makes it that are keep me and let me relaunch artifact.
00;16;20;23 - 00;16;40;26
Colby
Yeah. You know it's interesting I mean I feel like artifact. God, it's so crazy what happened. You know, in my mind with artifact and and I feel like artifact could have a resurgence at some point. It's it's a shame to see them kind of go away. But, you know, you never know. Might Nike could bring them back.
00;16;40;28 - 00;16;55;20
Pri
Yeah, I hope so. But I like the idea of like just some kind of, creative intern, like going and being like, oh, this looks cool. I'll take it over and then like, it becoming a thing again. And this person just, like, gets elevated and it becomes like, you know, the brand of the century or something like that.
00;16;55;21 - 00;16;56;23
Pri
Be kind of epic.
00;16;56;25 - 00;17;10;12
Chris
For the sake of our bags, for the sake of our bags, because they're not going to sell that off. Right? Like Nike is not the sort of shop that would just be like, oh, Joe Schmo off the street from Web3. Or you can take this thing that used to have our name on it.
00;17;10;15 - 00;17;18;03
Pri
I don't know, I mean, maybe they would sell it though, like, why wouldn't they sell if they're not doing anything with it, why wouldn't they just sell it to someone if it was like the offer was good?
00;17;18;08 - 00;17;30;26
Colby
Do you remember how iconic that announcement was, though, when with the artifact acquisition, when it was the Jordan logo, the converse logo and the artifact logo? Yeah, such a moment.
00;17;30;28 - 00;17;31;09
Pri
It was.
00;17;31;12 - 00;17;47;22
Colby
It's you know, it's hard to believe. I mean, the space moved so quickly, but it's it's hard to believe that with that type of publicity around it and marketing around it and that level that they put the brand, that, you know, it would just sort of dissolve.
00;17;47;24 - 00;18;11;10
Chris
Yeah. And they got caught in the undertow of, you know, a bunch of the decisions that CEO made who got ousted. You know, I think it was really much bigger things he was doing around, you know, changing their distribution model, trying to go more direct. You know, the digitization that when that failed, you know, artifact was just one of many things that they wanted to just wipe the slate clean on.
00;18;11;13 - 00;18;40;21
Colby
Yeah. And I think it, you know, also speaks to the point that I was mentioning before with these smaller brands, you know, these large conglomerates taking minority or even majority stakes in these smaller brands. And ultimately, you know, with such tremendous, tremendous IP in their portfolio. And, you know, Nike Jordan Brand is the perfect example of it when they see, you know, a smaller brand that they've taken a stake in.
00;18;40;28 - 00;19;03;16
Colby
And it's hard to to for them to not kind of produce the same, produce the same level of, of revenue and things as kind of there are more heritage brands. So I think it becomes more difficult for some of these larger conglomerates to justify the investment meeting needed. And actually growing a brand kind of from from scratch.
00;19;03;18 - 00;19;05;25
Aaron
Yeah, that's that's a great point.
00;19;05;28 - 00;19;33;09
Chris
I so it just kind of tying all this together. We're talking about brands. We're talking about the web2 ification, the stablecoin ification. It sort of feels like Toby Sean's life after lifestyle essay kind of starts to float above all of this, where there's a lot more, maybe you can kind of materialize out and there are a lot deeper touch points you can reach in terms of distribution coming down the pike in the future.
00;19;33;09 - 00;19;58;18
Chris
And so, you know, I wonder if we're gonna see, I don't know, like the, the idea of this plastic brand, you know, jumping around from thing to thing, having, you know, roots in crypto but accessibility to everyone and, you know, we talked a bit about apps and like our apps going to get their moment. But what if it's brands and and not necessarily apps per se.
00;19;58;21 - 00;20;23;15
Chris
You know that it's really it's more about like the IP, the collection of objects they're able to produce under that look and feel and not really like I need an app. I need to hold people in my little domain and have them clicking buttons and running in my system, but really more, more around how do we get, you know, like branded objects out in the world the same way sneakers slid around out in the world?
00;20;23;17 - 00;20;43;22
Pri
Yeah, I think that essay is very relevant. And actually, it kind of reminds me, remember, like a while ago, we were like talking about value to board. Like society is spectacle. I feel like every company, no matter what it is, whether it be a fashion brand, whether that, you know, be a, tech app, whether that be, you know, a publication, whatever it is.
00;20;43;22 - 00;21;08;01
Pri
Like everyone wants to be a lifestyle brand or like, kind of be the everything app. And so this idea of brand has become more important than the actual thing that it supports. Like, it's almost like the thing that it supports is just a stake in the media property of the brand itself. Like it's the spectacle is like separated from the core thing.
00;21;08;08 - 00;21;11;14
Pri
I think a little bit across like every spectrum.
00;21;11;17 - 00;21;19;21
Chris
For your you like commenting on pages, just doing a deal with Lufthansa Airlines. So they're all you can you can earn miles now.
00;21;19;23 - 00;21;33;01
Pri
I think they also announced another deal this week, which was really random to me. But it's just it doesn't even matter. Like it's just like, let's get this brand out as much as possible. Like it really doesn't matter. I'm trying to think of what the other one was.
00;21;33;01 - 00;21;44;28
Chris
Yeah. It was it was sort of in the same vein, but like, I don't know, I think I've maybe flown Lufthansa like once in my life, but if I'm a pudgy bag builder, you know, ring the bell. Sure. Like fucking girl.
00;21;45;00 - 00;21;46;21
Pri
Or NASCAR's the other one. I just googled.
00;21;46;21 - 00;21;48;19
Chris
It for NASCAR. Sure.
00;21;48;22 - 00;22;12;00
Pri
Yeah. It's like, okay, this is, like, totally unrelated to your core brand, but it actually doesn't matter. Like, we just need to get the meme out there and the spectacle out there. It's that's really interesting. I mean, I think, you know, NFTs are one version of like a network token and like creating these like, lifestyle network things. I know what's interesting is people have like their different vector of how they're supporting their like, token.
00;22;12;00 - 00;22;27;21
Pri
So like, for example, pudgy is taking this approach or just like getting it out there as much as possible, whether it be through you know, the stuffed animals or like partnering on white miles or NASCAR, I don't even know what they're actually planning to do with all of that. But what I find interesting, we've talked a little bit about merch.
00;22;27;23 - 00;23;00;28
Pri
Before in the context of like network tokens, but even like Blackbird. Okay, in the context of restaurants, how do we, like, have the restaurant as the hook into this, but then like create this community network approach using fly tokens as this like larger network token that everyone who's a participant has a stake in. So I kind of Colby, I kind of want to like, talk to you about how you're thinking about that at merge, because your approach is like sort of similar in a way of like creating this, like lifestyle community rooted in a core physical item.
00;23;00;28 - 00;23;08;05
Pri
But like with the purpose of having these experiences tied to it through like crypto incentives.
00;23;08;12 - 00;23;58;15
Colby
Absolutely. And I think something that's core to any example, whether it be Merch or Blackbird or even the Pudgy Penguins example and this larger narrative of brand that used to exist sort of in a singular category, needing to expand outside in hospitality, in lifestyle and travel. And I think the whole idea is curation, curation of a lifestyle. And, and for me and for merch, that curatorial thread is seen in our experience network and in the places that we recommend for our community as cool places to go, whether it be a museum, whether it be a gallery, whether it be a coffee shop, whether it be a restaurant and using physical product, chipped physical product
00;23;58;15 - 00;24;24;19
Colby
as a gateway into this larger network, a network of experience, network of community. And that's something that, you know, we really want to drive home with this, what I'm calling merch 2.0, which is this evolution of the original merch concept into more of the world of digital culture or using our technology as a platform rather than just thinking about our position as, you know, generative fashion.
00;24;24;27 - 00;24;58;17
Pri
Yeah, I mean, I love the generative fashion stuff as well, but I love the idea of like being able to like, skin your physical good, wear it in like, you know, some sort of experience. You go to a specific bar or you go to a museum and then you kind of can collect points for that. I feel like that's worked pretty well in different contexts, like for example, with Blackbird, and I love the idea of tying physical goods, like there's so much empty space in fashion right now where, like people wear these items, they go to different events with them, like, or they'll wear them somewhere, but they're not like, it's like you as like
00;24;58;17 - 00;25;19;23
Pri
the brand don't understand where people are wearing your merch. You're not like, incentivizing people to wear their merch together or even, you know, putting on a specific item and wearing it with a community member and going to an experience together. I feel like all of these moments are things that like fashion is just like has been very separate from experience.
00;25;19;23 - 00;25;51;29
Pri
And like you see it in small ways, like in that they're trying to like, but it's all kind of the same where it's like this like idea of I was walking past like a Rolex and I saw that there have like a full bar uptown where people can just kind of hang out. I was I, you know, most jewelry brands or fashion houses or even like Ralph Lauren has a coffee shop and they, like, serve coffee in the stores, like all that stuff is great, but it feels like low hanging fruit as far as, like where fashion can tie to their audience and like how you can actually experience things together wearing a physical item.
00;25;51;29 - 00;26;08;11
Pri
And fashion is like everything. It's like architecture. It's style. It's like what you're signaling out. So tying that to other people in the community in a specific experience makes a ton of sense to me. It's like what the restaurant industry has done so well and what like Blackbird is actually trying to capture, too.
00;26;08;11 - 00;26;43;18
Colby
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it was really it's really been core to the merch vision from the beginning, this merging of digital and physical, whether it be digital assets, being your gateway to a physical garment, whether it be your physical garment, being shipped and that unlocking this experience network and what we realized over the last six months is the network is the true opportunity for scale and the true opportunity to onboard people outside of, you know, this Web3 space that exists today.
00;26;43;25 - 00;27;15;26
Colby
And allow them to engage in blockchain technology without even knowing that, you know, they're interacting on chain. And that is our experience network. And we're curating it as a network for digital culture. We're creating this incentive mechanism and rewarding people for engaging in these different experiences, whether it be, you know, going to a museum, checking in. We built all of this technology in-house, our wearable wallet tech stack, and it's really about gamifying and enhancing the fan experience.
00;27;15;28 - 00;27;51;29
Colby
And the technology that we're building is, you know, completely industry agnostic. So for merch, the world that we're cultivating in the world that we're in today is this world of digital culture. But to me, the applications of the wearable wallet outside of just digital culture in the world of music, of entertainment, of character, IP, of sports, it's really a tremendous unlock and a new way for fans to experience product and to engage with the creator team IP they love the most.
00;27;52;02 - 00;28;11;20
Chris
So Colby chipped, you keep using the word shift a lot. I first heard that with Wendy's project, you know, which seems to be going really well and, you know, is like from pop up down in, the East Village there went off. But is it a it sounds a hell of a lot better than whatever term was coming before.
00;28;11;20 - 00;28;37;03
Chris
I can't even remember. But it also feels kind of like a more a casual or, I don't know, like like I think of, like Foursquare way back in the day. Right. And if you compare what Foursquare originally was, right, like it was a check in, like it was one of the it was like the first big mobile app, you know, but it kind of feels a little dorky versus, you know, this notion of like, yeah, I got a chip on my fabric, I got a chip on my body.
00;28;37;03 - 00;28;54;20
Chris
I just walk up, I scan a thing and boom, that's it. Like, is this an idea that just, you know, sort of needs it's time needs. It's smoothing needs like that, except ability to kind of roll out into the world and in the right form factor or like, how are you thinking about all this?
00;28;54;22 - 00;29;34;07
Colby
I think form factor is hugely important. I also think, you know, the industries that we are targeting, we're providing real utility to the end where and that's why I keep mentioning fans, because to me it's, you know, the the industries that I think will have the largest conversion rate to interacting with this technology are fan ecosystems. So it's about how do you take fans that wear their garments, wear their merch with pride, whether it be representing their favorite sports team, representing their favorite musician, and how do you enhance the experience for the fan through technology?
00;29;34;07 - 00;29;58;24
Colby
And that vehicle to access the technology is an NFC is we use an NFC chip. It could be a number of of of different formats. But for us it's an NFC chip. And that that chip then unlocks the wearable wallet ecosystem and allows for further gamification and enhancing of the fan experience. So I think it comes down to form factor and utility.
00;29;58;26 - 00;30;12;15
Colby
And for us it's, you know, product market fit within industries that I think will have the highest conversion rate for this new consumer behavior. And and teaching people how to engage with garments in a new way.
00;30;12;22 - 00;30;26;12
Chris
Yeah. No, that's really cool. I mean, look, if you if you can get me to be able to skip a line, if you can get two bucks off the beer, if I'm, you know, out at Forest Hills this summer and a thunderstorm rolls through mid-set, you can get me into a lounge. Like hell yeah. I'll wear your chips.
00;30;26;16 - 00;30;59;13
Colby
Yeah? Yeah, exactly. Well, you know, I mentioned it being industry agnostic, and us really were positioning it as building a tool set for the future of merch. And when I say merch, I mean Mark as a category. Merch is a $500 billion a year category across industry. So what we're really trying to do is build out that back end technology for chipped garment and exactly what you're saying, you know, imagine a chipped Taylor Swift concert t shirt where she fills stadiums of 80,000 people.
00;30;59;13 - 00;31;23;22
Colby
Let's say there's 10,000 t shirts sold at a concert with wearable wallet. You scan the NFC chip, you check in at the at the location, you get a loot box. Do you get XP, which is all about proof of provenance that shows you were at that concert on that day. And maybe of those 10,000, maybe ten, ten of the loot boxes, have a meet and greet with Taylor backstage.
00;31;23;28 - 00;31;56;05
Colby
Or maybe in a sports scenario, you check in at a game and yeah, you get a free beer at the kiosk. So it's really about how do you create these fan engagement mechanisms and how do you use technology as a way to enhance fan engagement and, and really turn your fans into super fans and turn your super fans into your micro-influencers, who in turn allow you and cultivate a stronger community to engage new fans.
00;31;56;05 - 00;32;16;21
Colby
So it's all about a flywheel effect. It's all about how do you use technology to create a stickier atmosphere for your team, company, IP, community, and I'm really excited for, you know, what we've built so far in the space and and what our roll out is and our roadmap is.
00;32;16;23 - 00;32;31;13
Pri
I feel like what I like about it being tied, like the chip being tied to your actual clothing is like there's obviously utility in like your, you know, wearing a hat or oto or whatever, just some sort of garment was like, I feel like with other stuff, you kind of have to go out of your way to like Tab.
00;32;31;13 - 00;32;54;24
Pri
I think it's actually kind of nice that you, you know, you're literally wearing the thing that gives you access to, you know, getting the beer or something like it's you almost have like product market fit in that regard because people all need to wear some sort of clothing or hat or something. So it's like very easily detectable. Like if you already know that you get a perk by wearing it, people will automatically like where the shirt or like do the thing.
00;32;55;00 - 00;33;26;16
Colby
That's why I also think it's important when I keep mentioning these fandom ecosystems, because the physical product side of fandom and of merch is such an important part of the narrative. So, you know, that's why we're really targeting and focusing on these industries where the physical garment and showing your allegiance to the team, to the musician, to the deejay is, is integral to the fan experience, rather than it sort of being an arbitrary, arbitrarily chipped product.
00;33;26;21 - 00;33;32;08
Colby
We want that physical to be core to the, the the narrative.
00;33;32;10 - 00;33;33;12
Pri
Yeah, I think it's great.
00;33;33;14 - 00;33;51;17
Chris
Kobe, you call it merch back, you know, like 1015 years ago when I was a wireless operator, it was swag and we swag everything. Yeah. If there was like an object you could put a logo on and our retailers wanted it, we fucking did it.
00;33;51;19 - 00;33;53;27
Pri
It was swag, swag.
00;33;53;28 - 00;34;02;02
Chris
You know, umbrellas, doors, posters, light boxes of pens, keychains, coffee can name it coffee cups.
00;34;02;02 - 00;34;02;22
Aaron
Chris.
00;34;02;24 - 00;34;07;06
Chris
Yeah, I got a mint mobile coffee mug up in my, that's upstairs. You know.
00;34;07;06 - 00;34;32;00
Aaron
Kobe, what would you said that always resonate really resonated with me. Was just around like, fan the fan communities and fandom. I just feel like that is increasingly important. You know, I always believe that internet digital technology is really the best of that. And I think that that piece, I think it's great that you're kind of continuing to explore that and not just digitally, but like bridging that, that divide between digital and physical.
00;34;32;00 - 00;34;52;16
Aaron
I just think that's more and more important. It's like more and more authentic, and I feel like everybody's exhausted with the inauthenticity of the internet at some levels. And like the way to get it better is, is to really start at where it's the strongest, which is around kind of these small communities, shared interests, you know, fandom. And all that great merch.
00;34;52;23 - 00;35;06;12
Aaron
I'm going to I'm going to stick with merch that, that you're creating. And I just I just think it's great to see the, the like high, high end esthetics kind of coming through, which I know you got you and the rest of the team had done a great job with. So it's been fun to watch.
00;35;06;18 - 00;35;33;10
Colby
Thank you I appreciate it. Yeah. It's been it's been a really fun journey up to this point. You know, everyone knows us as merch, the generative fashion brand. And what I realized was you know, 95% of our time and resources and energy were going towards really sort of seeing through these monumental visions of, of, of one and one product at scale.
00;35;33;10 - 00;36;06;06
Colby
And the chip technology was always part of our original vision. It just wasn't central to our everyday kind of, resource allocation. But like I mentioned, after our last drop, which, you know, sold out, but I sort of realized I had kind of this reckoning point that I feel like we have reached market saturation. I think that, you know, the opportunity for true scale and scale outside of, you know, this Web3 space is through our chip technology.
00;36;06;06 - 00;36;29;06
Colby
So I think, you know, fandom ecosystems is is a great bridge and, and a great industry and, you know, has huge potential for us as a way for merch to scale as a way to get more wearable wallets into the world, and also as a way to onboard a tremendous amount of people into the space and using, blockchain technology.
00;36;29;08 - 00;36;39;26
Chris
So what I'm hearing is merch chip Hodges and Walmart Inc. have stayed with Walton Bucks to earn Lufthansa Air miles, all to express your fandom for Luca.
00;36;39;28 - 00;36;46;19
Aaron
I love it. I'm actually like, sign me up Chris. And then obviously embodied also a bit the ultimate NFT and.
00;36;46;19 - 00;36;50;08
Colby
Also some sort of branding on a NASCAR car.
00;36;50;10 - 00;36;51;11
Pri
Yes, please.
00;36;51;12 - 00;36;53;04
Colby
But we can't forget now.
00;36;53;07 - 00;36;56;01
Pri
Leave it, blockheads on the nose.
00;36;56;03 - 00;37;19;09
Aaron
You know, Chris, and even with this, and I feel like what you're exploring, Colby, is like a piece of where things are going. We are kind, and we've. This has been a theme of the past couple of months, necessarily, just this, like installation, you know, deployment, deployment phase that we're in the middle of and I do feel that energy, like what you were saying, Chris and Colby, I think you're you're kind of adding, you know, to that energy.
00;37;19;12 - 00;37;41;18
Aaron
But I feel like I haven't seen like the breakout app. Right. Like you remember that from the old head days, right? Where there was like a moment when, like, everybody got excited about, like, a breakout app. It was kind of like that Friendster Myspace moment, which everybody's forgotten. I just wonder when that kind of hits and like, what that looks like, that that's still like a little bit murky to me.
00;37;41;21 - 00;38;03;17
Pri
I think a part of that, though, is because, like, everyone is kind of copypasta ING like the apps that exist that we're all kind of exhausted by, like, I mean having, you know, a clone of existing social media networks, but like on chain is not necessarily going to be the most compelling to bring the masses on. I think what's going to be it's more challenging, but I think what is actually going to be more compelling is like something that new and interesting.
00;38;03;17 - 00;38;22;16
Pri
So like the idea of having like earning points for, you know, having wearing a specific sweatshirt at an event and then like earning for that and then connecting to other people at the event that actually, like feels like a reason to download an app as opposed to just like trying to recreate the vision of like an already existing social media website, which I feel like in crypto.
00;38;22;16 - 00;38;38;07
Pri
There's been a little bit of that not to throw shade, but it kind of does. I feel like I want something fresh and interesting, which is like, okay, like, how do we harness fandom or something like, how do we get people thinking about clothing differently as opposed to like, how do we clone Twitter and add a token?
00;38;38;09 - 00;39;00;27
Colby
And to your point to about, you know, the consumer needing to download an app that we intentionally built our wearable wallet as a web app because I think people have had such app fatigue. And I think until your community is really asking for a true app, I think a web app is a lot more versatile and a lot easier and a lot easier to digest on the consumer side.
00;39;00;27 - 00;39;37;07
Colby
And then I think all of it really comes down to utility. And how do you give people what they want before they even know that they want it? And I will say that I've been playing around with our beta network, which went live a few weeks ago, and even after being heavily, heavily involved in the design and the development from start to finish, I whenever I interact with one of our garments and whenever I go somewhere and check in, I and get a loot box and get my points and get my rewards, and we're adding another exciting layer to it at the end of the month during NFT NYC.
00;39;37;09 - 00;40;14;01
Colby
It's just pure joy. It's like a dopamine hit, like I haven't felt in a while. And I think that surprise and delight side of engaging your fans and rewarding them for their attention and engagement and fandom, I think, is going to become core to the product journey for any, any brand, any consumer. And I think it's really an exciting, you know, gamified approach towards how do you engage your community in a cool new way?
00;40;14;03 - 00;40;30;00
Pri
I agree, you know, what's crazy is like airline points have like found product market that same with credit card points. Like they're all both kind of related. Like they've actually been able to really incentivize people like the points guy. I'm sure you guys have seen that and like people or there's like communities of people like truly hard core points.
00;40;30;00 - 00;40;55;20
Pri
People like even with like some of the coupon ers and things like that. But for some reason that has that's like whole idea has never been like fully extended it maybe crypto is a way to extend that whole like incentive, like building a network together, building a community together. Like why hasn't that extended beyond like airlines and like Sam's Club and other places like that?
00;40;55;20 - 00;41;14;20
Pri
Why, why, why is it taking this long? Is it because you need crypto in the middle, like, I, I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud about it because I agree with you, Colby. I do think that this is like something that people should be like, you know, their fans should be rewarded and there should be like a way to tie those communities together and do like world building around it.
00;41;14;20 - 00;41;26;13
Pri
And like airlines and credit card points have done a really good job with their world building around that. But like, is it because other people didn't have the distribution or like, why didn't that ever go beyond airline miles?
00;41;26;20 - 00;41;49;01
Chris
Maybe they're in kind of a unique position. You know, a lot of people fly. It's by all accounts an absolutely horrible experience. And any urge you can get to soften that, you know, maybe, maybe there's a little something going on that's unique to them. And I will say free in my house. NerdWallet is is more powerful than the Federal Reserve.
00;41;49;03 - 00;42;09;04
Chris
So I don't know what you're talking about. No. Yeah. I'm not a miles person. I'm not a finance person. But, you know, it's funny because I was thinking about this from like a slightly different angle, which was like, what the hell happened to augmented reality? Right? Because this is a much more softer and diffused version of augmented reality, if you look at it the right way.
00;42;09;10 - 00;42;19;16
Pri
Yeah, that's a that's a good framing. And like it's just it's like what Aaron Stitution just like tying the digital, the physical to the digital a little bit by augmenting your reality.
00;42;19;18 - 00;42;50;23
Colby
I think we're going to see more and more of this too. I think that maybe full on AR, it was maybe it's, you know, to futuristic for some people. But I think that to your point, you know, augmenting kind of the lowest hanging fruit form of reality or just using different gamification techniques as an onboarding mechanism to get people used to this world of AR, I think is is really interesting and I think has a future.
00;42;51;00 - 00;43;17;12
Pri
Does anyone feel like the AR VR, spatial computing conversations, like kicking back up quite a bit, like I've been seeing a lot more companies and others like really starting to think about like spatial computing and VR, AR just sort of tangent, but like just kind of had me thinking because I agree, this feels like the one of where things could eventually go as far as like augmented reality, but been seeing more startups in that in that corner.
00;43;17;14 - 00;43;24;19
Chris
You're a voracious news consumer. I'm not catching anyone into this, and I'll defer to you on on this trend spotting.
00;43;24;21 - 00;43;48;22
Pri
Oh, I don't know. I've been seeing a little bit more. I think it's because of like the Vision Pro and there's now and because AI is becoming more, you know, voice centric, like people are feeling like we're going to probably be engaging with like actual physical screens less and then have some version of like spatial computing voice and, you know, your phone.
00;43;48;22 - 00;44;03;07
Pri
I don't know if if computers and screens are going to look exactly the same. I feel like we kind of talked about this with like the Johnny AI Sam Altman thing, but I feel like since that announcement, I've been like hearing more like VR, AR, spatial computing stuff.
00;44;03;08 - 00;44;09;23
Colby
There's also ten new Snapchat glasses that the next generation of those glasses that they announced recently.
00;44;09;25 - 00;44;14;02
Pri
Is that one they like collab with Warby Parker or is that something else?
00;44;14;05 - 00;44;32;09
Colby
Did they do this? I think they were called specs. I don't know if they yeah, I think they did the collab with Warby Parker originally. I don't know if this next generation of them are done in collaboration, but I know they made an announcement the other day that the next generation is going to be a game changer.
00;44;32;14 - 00;44;43;15
Pri
Oh, interesting. I feel like look at that, I actually so I just googled it. But you know, the Warby Parker one is so apparently Google is working with they're working with gentle Monster and Warby Parker on Gemini smart glasses.
00;44;43;17 - 00;44;46;27
Colby
Oh I read that about the yeah the gentle monster announcement.
00;44;46;29 - 00;44;49;06
Pri
Yeah. Which is, you know, kind of cool.
00;44;49;09 - 00;44;54;14
Colby
And what do you guys think the Sam Altman Johnny IV hardware will be?
00;44;54;17 - 00;45;15;18
Aaron
I don't think they really know, to be honest. Kobe. I think that it's more like that guy's a legend or they're both in their own way, legendary, whether you agree with their approaches or not. And I think that they know I think like at a high level, what I interpreted that as. And I think it's right. It's just like in five years we're going to we're seeing a fundamental shift in just computing.
00;45;15;20 - 00;45;38;06
Aaron
And like, I think a lot of folks are still viewing AI from like an internet lens, but it's not really internet technology. It's computing technology. And, you know, operating systems like that we currently use probably will go away. They'll be reimagined. I think devices like phones are going to get reimagined. And I just saw that as like open AI, like planting a flag in the ground to do that.
00;45;38;06 - 00;45;57;07
Aaron
I don't know if they're going to wide. I mean, they're obviously doing a great job on the model side. And I do think like ChatGPT and that interface as a product is, is quite good. It's quite sticky, it's quite useful. You know, I don't know if they're going to be able to branch into devices. You know, I also don't know if you know how much is left in the tank for, for Mr. Ives.
00;45;57;07 - 00;46;12;13
Aaron
I mean, a tremendous amount of respect. But I think we all have to acknowledge that it's not easy to build these products and so I don't know if he'll be able to land that. That's way over my pay grade to to say that or weigh in on that, I hope I hope he can because I love the products that he's helped build.
00;46;12;13 - 00;46;27;09
Aaron
I don't know what they're going to build. I it feels like there was like the era of the phone is going to shift. And Chris, to me, to me, that's like kind of the mobile moment. Like I remember like, conversations where people were talking about mobile, and it was when it was like Nokia for phones. And I just was like, what do you like?
00;46;27;09 - 00;46;45;11
Aaron
I couldn't even wrap my head around that. I took that as like a lesson when I was thinking about the like, how to process the future tech. Like, I have to kind of suspend belief a little bit. And we saw kind of this mobile revolution. You obviously saw it and and lived pieces of that. But I just feel like the end of the phone is over.
00;46;45;13 - 00;46;57;01
Aaron
I think the era of like Microsoft operating systems and Windows and Mac operating systems is over, or at least the chapters closing in the near term. So I'm pretty excited for that. The vibe shift I'm here for?
00;46;57;04 - 00;47;17;24
Chris
Yeah, I don't think those errors are over. These things never go away. They still have purpose. Same way you turn on your car radio or you know, you throw on cable to watch the match. But I think the books on them are closing in terms of opportunities for new entrants. And that if I was a founder out there today, I would not not go to apps.
00;47;17;24 - 00;47;45;08
Chris
I would really go into into networks and, you know, like filling in, I think the density of our existing networks and finding new places to, to operate within because everything you're talking about, right, is just it's really like opening up vector space. It's opening up like new network planes for people to come in, colonize and fill and increase the density of it.
00;47;45;08 - 00;48;04;21
Chris
Where I don't know, you know, if you can just kind of like, picture a map of the internet, you know, there's huge trunks that run between YouTube and Facebook and, you know, and then there's all these little branches. But like, a lot of those little branches were dying, you know, as like Google search became more and more about, you know, holding people on their own page.
00;48;04;21 - 00;48;36;23
Chris
Like I saw an article the other day, I think it was in the journal where publishers are getting absolutely hammered by, you know, the new AI summarization tools that are sitting in search engines like business insiders, organic traffic's down 55%. And, you know, it has to be down like 500% from, you know, some point in the past. And so to me, what is opening, yeah, is like all this network space in ways you can inhabit it that I think are less central and are more about intercropping or more about popping up in other places.
00;48;36;23 - 00;49;01;25
Chris
And I'm speaking abstractly here, but, you know, hopefully you're kind of getting what I'm laying down. But like, yeah, I would not like if if I were starting a thing today, like 70% of my focus would be on exploring this like expanded net network terrain, how to go layout paths, how to link people in it and shit like UI or shit, you know, like that sort of stuff like, books are closed.
00;49;01;25 - 00;49;08;13
Chris
They're like, you have to have UI, but I view that stuff nowadays as like table stakes and. Yeah.
00;49;08;16 - 00;49;29;17
Aaron
And, and I think, I think the UI's are going to get more complex, complicated and complex. I just feel like good software developers are going to want to work at the hardest parts of whatever the tech stack is. And if UI's become easier and easier to to make like, they become less and less differentiated, more commoditized, and I think that the good technologists are going to just push the envelope.
00;49;29;20 - 00;49;53;18
Aaron
And I just, I, I think I don't even want to say it because I know it's like I just think like a lot of that metaverse stuff is going to come back because I think that stuff is hard. It's like hard to render. It's like hard to it's hard to to build. And I just feel like the younger generation and maybe I'm over indexing my kids like they want the Minecraft ification of the world and like a more immersive experience.
00;49;53;18 - 00;50;10;28
Aaron
So I know it's it was easy to kind of rag on meta, but I think they're going to be right in the long run, and I just feel like we're going to see more of that. So again, just to boil this down into like a single line, it is that me that's will rule the world. React, Chris. React.
00;50;11;00 - 00;50;32;16
Chris
All right. I'm going to I'm going to take issue with something different than me that is like all right. So Gedo and my heart is my heart's been open to the to the minute. Yeah. Look I've been on the road to Damascus I, I've been struck by the me the voxels. Thunderbolt. We're good there. No it's you saying technologies and technologies want hard problems and that like you're asserting the primacy of them.
00;50;32;19 - 00;50;38;21
Chris
I'm going to tell you, I'd rather bet on dropshipping than on, like, hard tech. Right now.
00;50;38;23 - 00;50;41;08
Pri
I don't like what I think, you know.
00;50;41;14 - 00;51;11;03
Chris
Yeah, there's opportunities for everyone. But, you know, like, sure, we can go like, heroic a16z, like build America hard tech hero bullshit. No fucking give me Lucas. So, like, this is the age of ops. It's the age of, like, it's it's a different landscape out there. And I think it's more suited to life after life style, guys, just in terms of capturing consumer audiences like hard tech always has a place, hard tech always has a purpose.
00;51;11;10 - 00;51;16;22
Chris
But that's not what we're talking here right now. And the things we're talking about. Fuck, give me drop shivers.
00;51;16;24 - 00;51;25;10
Colby
What do you see, Chris or anyone as the ideal form factor for this future of network scenario that you laid.
00;51;25;10 - 00;51;25;24
Pri
Out.
00;51;25;27 - 00;51;29;25
Chris
The token I don't even see a form factor. I see a token.
00;51;29;27 - 00;51;31;26
Aaron
Yeah, I come kind of with you on that.
00;51;31;28 - 00;51;34;27
Pri
It's just like incentives for specific behavior. Basically.
00;51;34;27 - 00;51;50;01
Aaron
It's like a tokens a link, right? Like I just feel like it's just that like it is like if you think about the web, the form factor really was a link. Right? And then if you think about social media, was the post, whatever that package was. And I just feel like for crypto it's the token.
00;51;50;03 - 00;51;55;13
Chris
I mean, in my world back in the day, right. It was it was a chip. It was a SIM card.
00;51;55;15 - 00;52;01;17
Aaron
Right? Yeah. Like your form factor was the the hardware. Right. So point.
00;52;01;19 - 00;52;06;18
Pri
But then. Yeah. Back to the question of like you think UI is going to get. I don't even know if people are going to care about UI.
00;52;06;18 - 00;52;25;18
Aaron
Like why do you I think people do people care about experience? I mean, I think there's just like truisms of humans, right? You make make people's lives easier. You make it beautiful. Like what you're doing, Colby at merch, right? You make it easy to use. You know, people people pay for that. I mean, especially if there's more commoditized markets.
00;52;25;21 - 00;52;51;12
Pri
That I, that I agree, but that those are aren't like that's like user experience. That's not like a I mean, it's interesting that you would think that that would be like a complex user experience problem. Like, I guess I was thinking of when you said that, like super hard tech, like I kind of feel like it's all going to be about the like, lifestyle, the IRL thing, connecting with people in a more authentic way, especially, you know, as AI becomes more ubiquitous, he already has been.
00;52;51;15 - 00;52;58;29
Pri
I kind of feel like it's that Toby Sean, like life after life, that it's all going to be about like brand and association to brand and world building.
00;52;59;04 - 00;53;21;10
Chris
Yeah. Like you know, I'm a big like the future is going to be multimodal sort of dude. And so to me it's the plasticity of your like ability to render out experiences and UI becomes table stakes. Right. You know, it just like what was the last like hardware startup challenger that actually broke through.
00;53;21;12 - 00;53;23;09
Pri
Do you think the meta glasses would fit in that?
00;53;23;11 - 00;53;33;19
Aaron
I think they're getting closer there. I think the weight is still going to be an impediment, and until they can get it like light, I, I worry about that form factor. Personally, I just I mean, the.
00;53;33;22 - 00;53;37;10
Pri
Ray-Bans are literally just not they were like really light.
00;53;37;16 - 00;53;55;04
Aaron
I think they still were a little bit heavy. I also just don't think everybody wants to wear glasses, so I don't know what it looks like, but I just it feels like asking everybody to wear glasses is like a big ask. It needs to be a little bit more seamless, like, I think, why did mobile devices become so popular?
00;53;55;04 - 00;54;12;29
Aaron
You could put them in your pocket. I mean, sure, people like carry them around and like are basically attached to the hip with them now because they're amazing devices. But I don't know. I just feel like it just has it has to like, blend in and like work with the way people want to live. If it doesn't do that, it's just always an uphill battle.
00;54;13;02 - 00;54;27;05
Colby
I will say though, outside of the hardcore tech industry and I'm just thinking about people I know in fashion, like the meta Ray-Bans are the piece of hardware that I think have penetrated outside of just tech.
00;54;27;08 - 00;54;40;03
Aaron
Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. So they're like, okay with that. But Kobe, would you you know, there's no right or wrong answer, but would you want to wear glasses? I don't even know if you wear glasses. But would you want to wear that every day? Like I just have a heart I don't know.
00;54;40;05 - 00;55;12;20
Colby
Well I heard I think it was very smart of them to partner with Ray-Ban because, you know, there's there's obviously no entirely universal silhouette, but of all the silhouettes they could have chosen, the Ray-Ban Wayfarer is probably the closest thing to universal that you can get. So I don't think it's a one size fits all scenario, but I do think it was hugely strategic and smart of them to do that partnership and and choose that silhouette as a, as, you know, the glasses that they would then produce.
00;55;12;23 - 00;55;21;19
Chris
And by the way, as I've been racking my brain and listening this conversation, was it really the ring doorbell was, I think, the last piece of hardware to actually break through.
00;55;21;22 - 00;55;25;13
Pri
Oh that was actually did that start on Shark Tank and they passed or something?
00;55;25;13 - 00;55;33;17
Aaron
I think, you know, some of our members of our dads actually back then, that's like a separate story. I'm trying to think, Chris Roomba. Maybe it was Roomba after ring.
00;55;33;19 - 00;55;35;28
Chris
No, it was way before that.
00;55;36;00 - 00;55;40;16
Aaron
Drones like that, they've kind of broken through not to be dark.
00;55;40;19 - 00;55;43;27
Pri
But, drones found. Yeah, they.
00;55;43;29 - 00;55;46;05
Aaron
They found product market fit. Oh, God.
00;55;46;07 - 00;55;48;08
Colby
What about the aura ring?
00;55;48;10 - 00;56;08;06
Aaron
Oh, that's a good one, Kobe. Yeah, I think that that's almost there. And that kind of like checks the boxes I was saying, right. Like, if you want to quantify yourself and that's an F, right. It does kind of fit with your lifestyle. It's like not not intrusive. And it, it looks like pleasing enough for folks. Right. Better than like the earlier like straps or bands or or something.
00;56;08;08 - 00;56;14;21
Colby
Definitely less offensive than a band. I yeah, I still think the design could be optimized, but I think I.
00;56;14;21 - 00;56;15;13
Aaron
Agree with you.
00;56;15;16 - 00;56;16;03
Colby
Yeah.
00;56;16;05 - 00;56;17;21
Aaron
Like thinner lighter smaller.
00;56;17;28 - 00;56;18;29
Pri
Yeah yeah yeah.
00;56;19;04 - 00;56;24;18
Chris
Oh what was that watch that came before the iWatch? I can't remember them now. Oh I don't know.
00;56;24;21 - 00;56;26;23
Pri
01I was a hand model for it.
00;56;26;25 - 00;56;29;00
Chris
Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa.
00;56;29;02 - 00;56;30;03
Pri
Wow.
00;56;30;05 - 00;56;33;21
Chris
This is like some David Duchovny law right now. You were a hand man.
00;56;33;23 - 00;56;34;25
Colby
Let's go.
00;56;34;27 - 00;56;41;17
Pri
I had a couple of gigs. Well, no doubt of that, but, yeah, I modeled the Intel smartwatch.
00;56;41;20 - 00;56;42;28
Aaron
Well, look at that. Look at.
00;56;42;28 - 00;56;50;09
Colby
That. Oh, yeah, about that. I like it because the isopod, it looks very similar to the Apple Watch.
00;56;50;11 - 00;57;08;24
Aaron
It did AirPods come out I mean, I guess AirPod would be the other one that I think came after ring. Chris. Right. That was it. That's probably the last major product, one I do I do also think I, I do I, I mean, I know it's like a little cliche because of her the movie, but it does feel like audio.
00;57;09;01 - 00;57;12;14
Aaron
Plus I may be a natural fit.
00;57;12;16 - 00;57;19;25
Pri
It definitely is. I feel it already myself. Like my use of AI has been very, very audio focused.
00;57;19;25 - 00;57;20;26
Aaron
Yeah.
00;57;20;29 - 00;57;26;27
Chris
I don't want to open AI. My device. That's why I stay away from voice care.
00;57;26;29 - 00;57;29;01
Pri
But it's just so useful.
00;57;29;03 - 00;57;41;03
Chris
That just means I'm like stuck. Stuck on my computer 27 hours a day. All right, gang, we've, we've been out on a boat. We had a good ring around the Rosie here. Anything else you want to touch on or.
00;57;41;05 - 00;57;44;03
Aaron
I think we need to intro. Yeah, you need to intro. Pre.
00;57;44;05 - 00;58;10;18
Pri
Oh, yeah. Always wait till the end. Hey everyone. Welcome to Net Society. Today we have Chris, Aaron and special guests Colby, founder and CEO of Merch. We're always here every week talking about crypto tech AI, art and more. And just as a reminder these opinions and thoughts are of our own and not of our employer. Welcome to Net Society.
00;58;10;20 - 00;58;12;16
Pri
I'm so bad at the intro.
00;58;12;18 - 00;58;15;15
Chris
Oh, you got it down cold. Your own good.
00;58;15;18 - 00;58;21;06
Aaron
You're a pro pre. Well thanks Kobe. Thanks for joining. Keep up keep up the great work with merch and.
00;58;21;09 - 00;58;21;22
Pri
So much.
00;58;21;22 - 00;58;25;02
Colby
For having me I appreciate it. I hope to see you all soon.
00;58;25;05 - 00;58;26;20
Aaron
Yeah. And come back whenever you want.
00;58;26;22 - 00;58;28;23
Colby
I appreciate it. Thank you. I love being.
00;58;28;23 - 00;58;29;28
Pri
Here. See you soon.
00;58;29;29 - 00;58;31;07
Chris
Bye, guys.
00;58;31;09 - 00;58;38;10
Pri
I.
00;58;38;12 - 00;58;49;28
Pri
Know.