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Future-proof your leadership with High Octane Leadership, a place where business leaders—whether by title or aspiration—share cheat codes for unlocking workplace excellence, lessons learned along the way, and insider tips for future generations of next-level professionals. With a career rooted in building people and businesses, Donald Thompson is an award-winning CEO, speaker, and author who empowers leaders to scale with purpose. Over the last 25 years, he has helped startups and enterprises alike drive cultural change, unlock performance, and deliver exceptional results through strategic leadership.
Find him on LinkedIn, and listen here to learn how you can become future-proof too.
High Octane Leadership - Episode 182
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Ari Butler: [00:00:00] I think people underestimate fun in their decision making. Obviously you need to, you know, make sure the ROI is there, but like sometimes when I'm working with a leader who's trying to make a big decision, uh, you know, we'll just talk about what, for the next five years, what would be the more fun job for you?
What's wrong with that? And it's like, wait, I can consider that. Yeah, of course you can.
Donald Thompson: Welcome to High Octane Leadership with Donald Thompson. This season we're diving deeper with more solo episodes where I'll share the experiences that have led to recognition by EY Forbes, fast Company and others. Not as a boast, but as milestones on my entrepreneurial path from growing multimillion dollar firms to successful business exits and building high performance teams with a global perspective.
I'll reveal the insights and strategies from my journey and share them with you so that we can win together. Alongside these soul episodes, we'll have industry visionaries and thought leaders, and we'll explore effective leadership [00:01:00]
Ari Butler: ready to empower your leadership journey with real success stories.
Let's embark on this transformational journey together.
Donald Thompson: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Hi Octane Leadership. I'm your host, Donald Thompson. I'm joined today by Ari Butler, an executive coach and communication expert who helps leaders turn their expertise into influential power. As the founder of AB three Group, Ari combines decades of leadership training with a unique background.
In professional theater and television, having appeared on HBO, Netflix CBS, he's advised senior leaders at global giants like Goldman Sachs, Google Cloud, and PepsiCo focusing on the human antidote to our AI saturated world. Authentic, meaningful connections are his superpower. One of the things that I'll tell you and, and Ari, welcome to the show.
Uh, we are really, really glad to have you. One of the things I'll share with you, um, this is a quick, funny story and then we'll get into it, is Ari [00:02:00] and I were, uh, introduced by a mutual friend, uh, in, in, in the Northeast and we were trying to get together. I live in North Carolina, Ari's based in New York.
And, uh, Ari came down for some business. We just couldn't get together, uh, and, and, and get it together. And I get a phone call on, I guess a Thursday, right? Or maybe it was a Thursday, Thursday evening, uh, from the Cee o of one of the firms that I've invested in, and his name is Greg Boone of Walk West. And he said, Hey, I'm going to dinner.
You heard of this guy, Ari? Uh, he's down from New York. He, he's big shot, he's awesome. He's this communication specialist and he came down to really, really talk to some leaders in Raleigh. And I'm like. Ari Who? And he said, Ari Butler. And I was like, yes, I know Ari. And so even though we didn't get together, someone in our circle got together.
You all had a great time. Uh, and it's just gonna be the foundation of some cool, cool things, uh, to come. So Ari, welcome to the show. We're really, really glad to have you.
Ari Butler: Well, thank you. What I remember about that dinner is that Greg, uh, [00:03:00] was asked several times by several of the other leaders that were at the table with us.
What does he do? And he. He knew exactly how to handle that moment. He spoke eloquently about from a high level perspective. He, he, he's in the AI space in tech and he's made it relevant to everybody at the table. And he did a great job. He is a very compelling person. And then eventually the conversation moved to, who's this person here from New York?
What do you do Butler? And. My answer was that I train people to answer questions like that as compellingly as Greg just did, to make it immediately relevant to tell some stories, to talk, uh, in a concise way about the value of the work that you do. In a nutshell, that's, uh, what, what I'm brought to work with leaders around the world to be able to do, to be more like Greg.
Donald Thompson: That's awesome. We both aspire that I, I wanna jump in 'cause I'm really, you know. I love to learn and I love to talk to people with unique points of view. And as we get into [00:04:00] the detail on the coaching and the communication, I'd love for you to unpack getting, starting started in acting because that has shaped some of the communication skills.
So I'd love for you to unpack a little bit, uh, that part of your, of your background.
Ari Butler: Sure. Uh, uh, look, I do think that having a background in communications and the performing arts gives you an unfair advantage, maybe not in your ability to get hired, uh, but I do believe in your ability to get promoted.
Uh, as, as you know, as anyone who's been risen through an organization, knows at a certain point they stop worrying about whether or not you're smart enough, if you have enough experience, if you're, if you're, you know, if you have the right credentials. The question is, is anybody listening? Uh, do you know how to manage a team?
When you say to your people or to your stakeholders or your buyers, I believe this is the right solution for you. Are you building trust or depleting trust? Uh, and you know, in the same way that we know, when [00:05:00] we see bad acting, uh, even if you can't describe why it's not. Feeling authentic to you. You also know when you see bad leadership, even if you can't pinpoint exactly why it doesn't feel right to you.
Uh, and I I do think that there's an overlap between communication skills, performance skills, and leadership skills. Um, why I. Uh, believe I'm uniquely positioned in this work is, uh, you know, is another question. I, I don't think there's a shortage of actors who can help leaders, you know, elevate their pitches.
I think at the AB three group, we're taking a much more intimate approach, uh, to leadership than just how you appear in the spotlight.
Donald Thompson: That is awesome. I think that our past experiences shape our current moments. And the things that we can pull from those moments and, and really, like you said, create that uniqueness, right?
Because one of the things in the opening, right, that AI saturated world, [00:06:00] right, because everything is becoming harder to distinguish. Between what is real and what is authentic. And so I think we're at an inflection point really as a, as a society, right? In terms of who do you trust and, and how do you build that trust as a, as a communicator.
And so one of the things that I would like to ask as we, as we look at getting into our conversation today, uh, what are some of the things that you. Help people with and being a little bit more specific, some of the challenges you see leaders have, and then how you help them unpack those and move forward to become that authentic communicator, that unique, uh, leader.
Ari Butler: Sure. Uh, me and my colleagues at the AB three group, we're working with leaders, of course, on how they appear in the spotlight, right? It's their turn to talk and hopefully they can show up in that moment. But leadership today is not just when you give your TED talk or when it's your turn on the agenda.
There's one-on-one consultative conversations. It's [00:07:00] your ability to orchestrate a meeting where people feel included. You invited all of these smart. People to your meeting, what are you doing to get their ideas to surface? Even if they're not the loudest or the most extroverted, or the highest seniority person there, do you have a strategy to get their ideas into the conversation?
Um, are you able to tell stories that actually make people feel closer to you? They're not just, you know, how great you are and what great ideas your, your company had, but like to actually demonstrate what you value and what it looks like when you show up in the face of adversity or when you. You mess it up.
Like, do people understand from the stories you're sharing, what it, what it's like to interact with you in the good and the bad times? So, you know, there's an intimacy to the, the work that we're doing.
Donald Thompson: So one of the things, Ari, that I'd love to give you a chance to unpack is, you talked about leader's time in the spotlight.
You talked about if a leader is pulling smart folks into the meeting, how do they set the stage? [00:08:00] For it to be a successful meeting. I hear what you're saying. Unpack it a little bit deeper in terms of how you coach people to be that better facilitator, that better leader and orchestrator in a meeting environment.
Ari Butler: Great. Don, let's take your example, right? You've invited people to a meeting, right? Well, first of all. People, first of all, you didn't invite people to watch your pitch. You invited them to a, a meeting. So you, you know, that implies that their ideas are gonna be relevant to the conversation as well. If you're just gonna click through your deck, maybe there will be time for q and a at the end.
Or not. Just tell them you want to, you wanna come to my webinar, you wanna come to my pitch? But getting aligned on what. Outcome or impact or how you want them to participate is, is one of the first questions I would act. What do you want the experience to be for the people you've invited to the meeting?
Um, uh. You know, we talk a lot at the AB three group about impact, right? Yeah. Communication is measured on the receiving end. So are you as a leader trying to create urgency [00:09:00] or are you trying to create calm, right? That that question alone will fundamentally. You know, change the way you show up. And by the way, it's not an acting class when you are arguing politics with your father-in-law, or when you are sitting bedside with your grandmother, or when your nephew scrapes his knee or you're rooting for one of your teams.
You show up authentically, but wildly different versions of yourself. So I'm just asking leaders, what does it look like when your. Uh, welcoming people into a conversation in the same way that if I said, Hey, Don, you wanna get nachos later, I would authentically know how to do that versus, you know, if I said, okay, so what questions do you have?
You know, like immediately you're sending a message from the way you're communicating that, that you're not really open to their ideas. And then there's the. The ways that you, you facilitate that, you invite people to participate. If it's a decision making meeting, it's useful for people to know that, [00:10:00] um, the decision is being made by me, the boss, or at the end we're gonna vote.
Or in two weeks, I'm gonna let you know, based on this consultative conversation, what has been decided. You know, it's you that'll dictate the way people behave. If it's a brainstorming meeting, you know, what is your mechanism for bringing ideas out? Because you have 30 people on your call, you know, a brainstorming meeting.
Work. If you just say, okay, let's go top left, uh, you know, top right. And then down each row, and here everyone, you know, that's, that's not a recipe for engagement. So look, we come with, um, you know, I believe tried and tested methodologies to approach, uh, a circumstance like the one you presented, Don. But the, the real question is always what impact are you trying to have?
Because any consultant that tells you there is a right way to do it, uh, is you, you know. You should fire that person. Um, it, it, it all depends on, it all depends on what your, you as the communicator are aiming at and what the [00:11:00] experience is on the other end.
Donald Thompson: That is powerful. One of the things, Ari, you've worked as an actor and there's a lot of pressure in the things that that, that you've done to, to get it right, to be on in that moment.
Yeah. You've also worked in the executive space where there's a lot of pressure to deliver and a lot of demands on those executives. How do you work with people on managing their calm, managing their message? In very high pressure environments. Right? Yeah. Because a lot of times the, it's, it's not that the executive doesn't know how to manage the meeting, but we all behave sometimes differently when the pressure's the highest.
How do you help people when we add that pressure level to what we're doing, to stay in the moment, in the right tone, the right context?
Ari Butler: Yeah, it's a very personal question that you're asking Don. The, the answer is that it depends from person to person. And too frequently we see people taking other people's answers to this question, and I mean, it's good to [00:12:00] test those things on, but like.
What one pitcher does on the mound, his or her, uh, ballet of spitting and touching or whatever they're doing isn't gonna be what works for you in the green room before the, you know, or the conductor drops the downbeat. So finding your specific answer to that question is paramount. I'll tell you this. I work with many leaders who I'll say, um.
You know, what do you do to prepare, uh, at the AB three group? We, one of our, our core approaches to this work is called the ready position of leadership. And the reason is because, I mean, I'm, I'm not much of an athlete, but when I played Little League, you could do as many sit-ups or, you know, review the plays.
We'd be sitting there, okay. If the ball comes to me, I throw it a second base. And for those of you that aren't baseball fans, you'll adapt this metaphor to whatever works for you as well. Right? Right. But. You would get into this ready position, which was about being agile, right? Your glove up, you're a balance on your [00:13:00] toa.
At the crack of the bat, you were ready to go and whatever. Of course you've thought, what? You know, what is the logical thing maneuver that I would make? Where should the ball go if it comes to me? Right? Of course, you needed to be quick and fast, but what you were preparing for was so that in that moment you were able to show up for yourself at the highest level so frequently.
In my work, I ask leaders, what do you do to prepare? I'm not talking about what coffee are you drinking this morning? I mean, in the five minutes before you log online or you walk into a room, what are you doing to prepare? And often I'll hear about breathing and meditation, and I'll hear about lying on the floor and all.
All of that's great. Unless you've been getting feedback for the past five, 10 years that I, I wish I was getting more passion. I wish I was getting something that felt more exec. You're preparing for something that nobody's asking you for. So it's important that we recognize that we have to be preparing our mindset for the mindset we need to be in.
[00:14:00] Athletes prepare to dominate like a soldier. They prepare to, to go into battle. Right. It's a very different thing than how an actor prepares who from five minutes to five minutes has to be consoling, has to be empathetic, has to be authoritative, has to be irate, has to be in love, moment to moment. So actors like leaders have to be able to prepare for a range of different mindsets that they need to be in from, you know, scheduled meeting to scheduled meeting throughout the day.
Donald Thompson: I love that answer, and I'm gonna tell you why specifically. It's a gap in how leaders are prepared and trained. You talked about preparing for a moment, and then we expanded it to how leaders are driven. Most leaders are promoted because they're a star engineer. They're a star salesperson, uh, but most people don't build in the complexity of having to change, right?
The mask that you're wearing, change the persona that you have, right? Different than meeting with your executive peers. Meeting with your [00:15:00] team, meeting with a vendor, meeting with an outside board member. All of these moments require a different tonality tempo, right? And that is not something that is typically delivered in the readiness programming for leaders.
And then we are surprised, right? Why? Why sometimes people show up the same in every moment, and then that feedback is a little all over the map. So I really appreciate. That understanding and the way you delivered it in that context setting, right? Like that's super important. That's awesome.
Ari Butler: First of all, people are rightly promoted for those reasons, for their expertise, and then they discover that the skills, you know, what is it, the Peter principle, it got them where they are and to what they need in the moment that they're in.
It's the same as when you're giving a performance review to somebody, that person didn't wait, and you have some, you know, hard feedback for someone. That person didn't wake up and say, today I'm gonna make it hard for my colleagues to perform at the best today. I am gonna ask questions. That's gonna annoy everyone.
That person probably [00:16:00] got feedback from their first or previous manager that said, you know, we, we would love to hear more from you. Or we would love, you know, we, we feel like, um, uh, you know, don't hold back. And they, they believe they're showing up. In the way that they were coached. They have a belief structure that says, behave this way.
They're not try, usually, usually they're not trying to sabotage your workflow.
Donald Thompson: One of the things that you talk about, and I want to get your view and and define this for our audience, the AI anti do.
Ari Butler: Yes.
Donald Thompson: Right. And, and so I, I, I want to give you plenty of space. I'm not gonna do a over buildup. It just to say to our audience that we're all aware of the tsunami of how AI is dominating daily conversation.
The, the media. I can't
Ari Butler: believe we've gotten 17 minutes and we're just now
Donald Thompson: and, and we're just not talking about it. Yeah, that's, that's an odd to change. And so I'd love to hear you unpack, right. What is. The AI antidote,
Ari Butler: first of all, it's not anti ai. [00:17:00] I mean, it's, you'd be committing career of career fallacy, career suicide right now if you're not in sync with what's happening with ai.
I teach human to human interactions, but I love utilizing these tools. It's, as a business owner, it's saved me a lot of time and definitely a lot of money with these tools. I'm impressed and totally bought in. When I talk about the AI antidote, it's, it's as a counterbalance to what's happening in the world.
Um. There is no reason that anyone should trust that when you are reading an email, looking at a deck, um, even reading spreadsheets and the complex business analysis that people are doing, that you're actually seeing the thinking of the human beings that you're talking to. I, I, I, I'm not being too cynical, but we all have been given these tools that has elevated our ability not just to have.
Spell checked emails, but also really well written, thought provoking, beautiful metaphor emails. If you're not using it, you are behind the [00:18:00] curve. The problem is that then you or your team has to walk in the room and you are either living up. To those standards that you've set using that technology or you're falling short, and that's a trust gap.
So the, the organizations that I still get to work with are the ones that value culture. The ones that value investing in communication and leadership performance are the ones that recognize it as they're investing in their technological tools. They better be investing in their human skills because those are becoming increasingly rarefied and valuable.
Donald Thompson: I, uh, completely agree, and I think that authenticity is going to be a more valuable commodity. Uh, well not commodity, more valuable skill as everyone has access to the same tools. So the, the ability to use AI well, right? There is a gap now where people are adopting it. Some are using higher level versions, but over time, that's gonna commoditize [00:19:00] itself.
And to your point, are you the same level of skill that was presented in your presentation that you sent before the meeting? Can you go off that script? That AI partnered with you on, right. And talk through a concept with a different slant that you didn't prepare for because you are the originator of those ideas, right?
Yeah, and I, I, I see a lot of folks that are gonna be ready for a little while awakening of being caught. Uh, not just using the tool as a helper, but using the tool as a crutch. Sure. And, and, and being found out. So I, I, I, I'm, I'm tracking with what you're describing relative to that antidote.
Ari Butler: And if you are, if you're a boss, if you're a leader, an owner, a founder, uh, you know, you need to make sure your team can do it too.
Donald Thompson: What do you see, and, and I've got some questions, but I want to, I want to extend that, 'cause what you just talked about really quickly is not just use an [00:20:00] individual. But your team's capability, right to rise to these new levels of expectation that are out there. What are some of the things that you're seeing that are working in leaders that you admire when they're looking at building a team, growing that you, when you're talking to a leader, there's things you're working on, there's things you're helping folks with, but I wanna flip that question and say, what are some of the things you see in leaders that you go, that guy's got the goods, that that woman is amazing, right?
They are really killing it. What are some of those things that you really appreciate when you see in leaders?
Ari Butler: Ai, I'm gonna connect this back to the previous answer. Ai, as we all know, it's the, it's the journey, not the destination. Ai, you know, this has been written about quite a bit, takes people immediately to the destination.
It's often a high level of work, and as you just said, Don. What it does is it, it, it doesn't deepen people's connection to the output because they didn't have the journey, the collaboration, the team experience of having SD different versions to [00:21:00] get where they're headed, to have some failure along the way to see what doesn't work and what did work.
Uh. What I always find when I'm working with leaders, especially the ones that are invested in their team culture, uh, not just, you know, sometimes you gotta roll up your sleeves and, you know, reach your KPIs and make sure the ROI is there. I mean, we all, we all fall into that pattern. I do it too. Um, but when leaders are thinking about their culture, I use the metaphor from the theater.
Uh, of being the difference between being in rehearsal versus practice. Practice is what you do when you think you know the answer and you wanna make sure that everybody can deliver at a high level and do it the same way every single time. And there is a moment where that is how you wanna work, what that looks like.
And usually I should say, a leader switches. To practice mode too early. They get a big, uh, finalist presentation, an RFP, on their [00:22:00] calendar, and they think, all right, what slides are we gonna show them? And who's, who am I gonna put in which position? And who's gonna speak first? And here are the sentences that I want to hit and the data points that I wanna show them.
Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. And everyone gets into practice mode, uh, in, in the. Theater you after opening night, have to be able to deliver the same show over and over again. It needs to be well rehearsed and people need to understand what their role is, but real creativity. The best ideas emerge the longer you can stay in rehearsal mode, the longer a leader allows their team to say, well, what else could it be?
What else are we missing? Let's hear the new person's idea. Um, uh, let's, let's try this. What happens if we go in the opposite order? What happens if we say out loud the hard thing? What happens if we don't tell that story? We wait to see if a question gets asked, what, you know, what, what, you know, shower sentences emerge, middle of the night sentences emerge.
And if you, you know, the, the, you know, any writer's room [00:23:00] knows that as soon as the, what is it, the FCC or the editors start coming in, the creative process is over. You wanna delay that as long as possible. So what I appreciate. Uh, about the leaders that I get to work with and as another version of the AI antidote are the ones that still create space.
To find an even better product by saying in rehearsal mode instead of too quickly getting to the practice mode. And as a coach, I'll just say, when I'm working with an executive, I need to know the answer. Is this person still open to rehearsal? Probably not the day before, but if I'm working with them a month before some big conference event, we can still be, if they'll allow me, we can still be in rehearsal mode.
What else is possible?
Donald Thompson: That's awesome. Most people have a kind of a preconceived notion of how things are supposed to go, and you mentioned this, whether it's an RFPA pitch, different things, and it's [00:24:00] based on our experience. Sure. But then we also know that what the buyer wants is uniqueness, fresh ideas.
So when I listen to you talk about rehearsal mode, where are you gonna get the fresh ideas? And so I'm gonna take that note with me because that's where the new ideas live practice, you've already decided what you're going to do, right? And now you're figuring out how to execute what you've decided. And so I really appreciate the way that you broke that down because I can use that tomorrow.
Right? And that's one of the things that I admire in, in folks that I'm working with. Can you tell me something that's complex in simple terms that I'm, I can use tomorrow? And so that's why I really appreciate that, that, that thoughtful answer. Let's unpack from, let's, let's move from business to family a little bit.
So you live in Manhattan, your wife is also a creative Broadway director, two sons. How does being a highly creative household. Impact your philosophy of leadership, [00:25:00] creativity, and, and all the things
Ari Butler: well look people value. And make decisions based on many different motivators. You work. And I work with people that are working at global conglomerates.
They have their 4 0 1 Ks and they know their retirement. They have the illusion all due respect to all of you. Uh, the illusion of certainty. It can all go away and often does, uh, quicker than you can believe. But, um, you know, the, those, those, those decisions are made to fill a need. For certainty. Don, you are a entrepreneur, a business owner, um, uh, and my understanding of your history is that you made a shift out of that world because probably you had a need.
Like I had a need to be more in a creative. Uh, mode. Uh, I would say that that motivation, unlike certainty, is more motivated by originality. I want to do new things. That's right. Every week I have new projects. I want to be a [00:26:00] find way to That's right. People, you know, I wanna work on teams, but I do like the idea of having new people on those teams, you know, every, you know, meeting to meeting every couple of days, every new project.
So, uh, you know, people make decisions differently from one another. Some people, by the way. Are dedicated, uh, to purpose. They wanna feel like they're leaving the world a different. That dinner you spoke about with great that was brought together by someone that was in public service, that's a very different need that's being fulfilled than someone that's looking for respect, uh, that wanna be.
In the spotlight that want to feel like they're, you know, they're, they're, they, they're the ones that run for office, not that they're not also hopefully motivated by purpose as well. Sure. But they're the ones that want to be the lead of things. Um, you know, like the theater. Um. Once you can let go of the idea that being in the theater means that you are in the spotlight, you can live a [00:27:00] really good life.
Some people get to be in the spotlight, but there's also a lot of people that love being a part of that community.
Donald Thompson: Yeah,
Ari Butler: right. That's another motivator. They just wanna be around good people that are working on fun projects. I think people underestimate fun in their decision making. Obviously you need to.
You know, make sure the ROI is there, but like sometimes when I'm working with a leader who's trying to make a big decision, uh, you know, we'll just talk about what, for the next five years, what would be the more fun job for you? What's wrong with that? And it's like, wait, I can consider that. Yeah, of course you can.
So, so, you know, as I think about what. Motivates me. What drives me. It's much different in my now forties than it certainly was in my twenties, and I know that was true for you, Don, as as well. Um. But, uh, you know, I, I haven't built a life and my wife hasn't built a life based on certainty. Um, you know, those of us that are in the [00:28:00] consultative or gig economy, most of us don't have anything on our calendar.
Three months out. You just go through life trusting that people are gonna keep inviting you places and, and, uh, based on what motivates you. Uh, and how you wanna build your life. It's often those motivators that are dictating your decisions more than some, you know, uh, worldview or grand plan.
Donald Thompson: So you help people get their, their messages across that lands with audiences better.
Right. How do you help people when the message doesn't land?
Ari Butler: Oof.
Donald Thompson: Brutal. Like, how? Like, how do you, like when they're, they've done the, they've done the rehearsal, they've got to practice, but for whatever reason. Right. It's it in that moment. It's not landing. How do you, how do you work with people to prepare them for, for that type of situation, uh, and thus to, to minimize it happening again.
Ari Butler: First of all, beginning with curiosity is always useful in these moments for them as well. Uh, is it [00:29:00] that they're towing the company line and the company line just like mathematically or it just doesn't resonate, or, you know, the numbers don't add up or they just don't believe what their company, their heart isn't in what their company wants them to communicate
Donald Thompson: or in, in the context that I'm describing.
Those are, those are powerful examples when you're communicating and your message. Real time is not laying in the room. You're not getting the response, the feedback. Right. Your, your joke isn't landing right. Yeah. The strategy you're rolling out, people are nodding, but they're not, they're not rallying with you.
Right. Yeah. How, how do you, how do you help people manage those moments to where they don't just completely lose the moment, but they can potentially make it the best they can in that moment?
Ari Butler: Yeah. Well, what you're talking about I would say is everybody is nightmare. Right? It's hard to fix in the middle.
I mean, once you know, there's a thousand metaphors here, but once you've lost someone's trust or room's trust, which can happen [00:30:00] in a minute, it is really hard to earn it back, particularly to have the. You know, the aptitude to figure out how to do it in the moment, especially when you, you know, you can't just hit the pause button and see what's going on.
Uh, that's a terrible feeling. And, uh, I would say that the, the strategy is to be reflective about what happened. You know, maybe if you can ask some questions and start to think strategically about how to make sure that doesn't happen again. Um, you know, jokes are great. But most people who tell jokes think that they're much funnier than the, the, their listeners or many storytellers.
I'm a great storyteller. They like telling their stories more than the room likes listening to them. So we have to, you know, look, you have to get some honest and supportive feedback from colleagues, coaches, mentors, uh, that you trust. I, I would say this though, if in the beginning. As quickly as possible, you can [00:31:00] demonstrate that you are there with relevance.
You can show them that you know them, you can tell them their story and demonstrate that you're prioritizing what matters to the room much more than what Matt, what your outcomes and even your agenda is. They'll usually stay open to you, even if you make a mistake here or there, or even if they disagree with you.
I mean, think about this. At the end of your meeting, they're gonna say yes or no. They're gonna say, we like, you know, we, we, we like that idea, or We don't like that idea. But you, they can say no to you and say, gosh, I hope, uh, walk West sends us somebody else next time. You know, I, I, uh, I hope Don is somebody else on his team that we can meet.
Or they can say, you know what? We're not gonna go that we route. What, uh, what Don and his team recommended. We're not, we're not gonna do that, but I've loved interacting with them. They feel like they would be great allies. I think you can establish that even. You know, even in the first few [00:32:00] moments, regardless of if you, you know, you, you land the account, the question is, are you landing the account in 2028 because of the trust you've built?
But you're right, if, if, if you lose the room, um, it's probably where it's just thinking through how you approached it in the first place and, and, and arming yourself with a better strategy. Usually if you want. Different outcomes, you have to step into different patterns. So I wouldn't just keep doing what you're doing.
Donald Thompson: Yeah, I, I think that that's true. I'll give an example of one that happened to me. It was a few years ago. Um, but I still keep it in mind and it keeps me humble. And it keeps me in that preparation and that rehearsal mode to really understand the audience and the timing of that audience's readiness For what I'm describing, I, I did a presentation, a virtual presentation, to an executive leadership team, global business, and this did not go good.
So I'm gonna tell you this, this is not where I win in the end, right? This is one where I have learned in the end, and I'm better in other places, right? These
Ari Butler: are the, these are the [00:33:00] stories leaders need. To tell their team, their teams need to hear these stories. So everyone who's listening we're about to learn something really important.
Donald Thompson: And so I, um, prepped and went through with my stakeholder, the presentation and everything. Green, green, green. This is gonna be amazing. All the things, right. Come to find out, my presentation slot was right after the financial review meeting,
Ari Butler: oh God.
Donald Thompson: For the leadership team. Numbers weren't good. They were having to discuss layoffs, and the Cee O was not into the topic I was describing.
Right. So now how did I learn from that? Right? And, and then I went in doing my thing, man, I'm, man, I'm, I'm doing my thing. And, and the, and the leader in the room is just sitting there like, like he is pulling, like, I'm pulling teeth, like I'm doing dental work, right? So I know I'm losing. I'm like, this is not,
Ari Butler: they're they're watching him or her as much as they're watching you,
Donald Thompson: right?
Right. I'm like, this is not going good. [00:34:00] This Ari, this went so bad. I didn't even charge him. Right. I just said, I just said, forget it. I just said, keep your money. Right. Like just, just keep it. But the thing that I learned, and I do this m much better today, is I don't typically do briefings with the C-Suite and the Cee o in particular without having a 15 minute check in with the Cee O.
My learning was I took the stakeholders that were right below the C-suite. Now I ask, listen, this is a pretty important meeting. You all are paying a significant amount of money for me to come in, right? Let's get 15, 20 minutes and let's walk through the agenda, the topic, the timing with the Cee O so I can get some feedback and some tweaks.
And what that single thing has done for me over the years is, number one, I get a little more face time with the person in charge. That's helped me navigate. But number two, and this is a thing I wanna share with my audience. CEOs and business leaders are [00:35:00] really clear of what their hot buttons are. They will tell you when given that space to ask, and I'll ask when we have this hour, what are the two or three things you want to be sure that the team walks away and then I make sure I manage those key critical moments.
So even now, if a presentation isn't my most dynamic isn't the best thing I've ever done, I've hit those three points. I've made sure we went through and I always, and and what it's done is raise my floor. For what a bad meeting looks like. My floor now for a tough meeting is a BBB minus, and I still can get to an A plus because you never can control the dynamics and what's going on and all the things.
But I tell you that was not. That was not an amazing moment, but I learned from it.
Ari Butler: Yeah. Well, you know, we don't get through life, you know, unbred. That's right. That sounds terrible. But the learning is important and I'm sure, uh, the room gained a lot from whatever you shared as well. The, you [00:36:00] know, look, there's a difference between what.
It sounds like you did, which was prepare what I wanna say. I know the topic. They invited me, the Cee O is signing my check. I'm gonna go up there and I'm going to say what I wanna say. You're preparing to demonstrate your high level of competence, and it makes sense. When we work with leaders, we go through a process of preparing.
For impact, which is quite different, right? Preparing to be influential and what you are doing by talking to the Cee O. What are your care abouts? What are your hot buttons? What are your no? GOs is how you not just prepare to demonstrate competence, but prepare to be influential. There's one other piece that I'll add when I'm working with a keynote speaker, I'll say to them, same thing as ready position.
Right. How are you gonna be agile? Leave space, particularly in your opening remarks to reference back to something that the room just heard. [00:37:00] It's part of your preparation. If, if you, even if you discover, you know, that day that you're gonna be speaking after this Cee o it's to your advantage to make sure that you're watching the Cee o for whatever they say so that you can call back to, to demonstrate that you are in the same room as everybody else.
They're not just digesting whatever you planned to say a week ago, but that you are hearing what they just heard.
Donald Thompson: As we wind our time together, I could talk to you all day, but we like, but, but, but we have, uh, you know, we, we have a little bit of a, a, a time constraint, but that, that's all right. What would you like to share with our audience about communication and leadership that maybe I didn't ask or we didn't get to?
What would you, what would you like to, as we, as we land the plane, what would you like to leave our, our audience with?
Ari Butler: There's a real desire. When you're in a spotlight or in a conversation or a [00:38:00] high stakes moment meeting interaction, to consistently show people the best you have to offer, and you are right.
People are assessing whether your motivations are connected to their motivations, of course, whether your substance is of the quality and at the level that they respond to. And if you are, feel like a credible person because of the way you interact with the questions they ask. Of course, the stories you share, your ability to show up in that moment to not collapse under the weight of that spotlight.
Showing people the best you have to offer doesn't mean just telling people how brilliant you are over and over again. It, it, a lot of that, like Don you just did, is showing them the moments where you didn't have it all figured out. We're able to say, look, we don't. I don't agree with you, but I'm not [00:39:00] questioning your humanity.
I don't, I'm not questioning your integrity whether or not you're a good person. Right. As a, as a leader, we need to be able to step into other people's shoes without sacrificing, you know, your own. Um, competence your own integrity, your own credibility, but demonstrate that you're able to understand how they formed that, uh, point of view.
And in the way you communicate the ideas, the way you give feedback, the stories that you do decide to tell people are learning what it means to be in relationship with you. Um. If you're trying to overwhelm people with your competence, show them every slide. If you're trying to bore them, stick to the numbers.
If you're trying to frustrate or alienate people, never ask them questions. But if you're trying to create an environment where people thrive or they feel connected, where they feel valued, you [00:40:00] really do need to rethink the performative, the inclusivity, the. Intimacy of the way that you are leading and it requires you to be more human, not less human.
Donald Thompson: Alright, thank you for those closing comments. I'm gonna end our conversation with just recapping a couple things that you said that are powerful takeaways for me personally. And I know my audience. Is our audience gonna get a lot out of, um, the one. Communication skills help you deliver the have the unfair advantage, and that's what we're all chasing in business, right?
If we're really direct and honest, we're trying to figure out how to have that unfair advantage, right? And working on those communication skills start moving you in that direction. The other thing is that we all have to manage that illusion of UN of uncertainty. That, that we have all the answers, that this is the only data that matters and managing that illusion and staying curious, staying open, right to new information.
And the third thing that, that I really wanna [00:41:00] leave and, and land the plane on is people underestimate fun. Uh, and that you can have a good time with people, that you can smile, you can stay focused on the standard, the results, but it doesn't have to be drudgery to get there. And, uh, I'll, I'll give you the last word, but those are the three things you said a lot of really powerful things, but those are three things that I wrote down, I circled, I starred, uh, as I was taking notes and just listening, both as the host, but also just learning from you.
And so I'm gonna give you the, the final moment as we, as we, as we sign off, if there's any last words that you'd like to say, uh, to the audience.
Ari Butler: Um, I recently lost my father. Uh, so I've been thinking a lot about, um, my relationship to him and he taught me something early on. He asked me to replace the light bulbs on our roof.
I, I grew up in the suburbs, not here in Manhattan, and we used to have a roof that came to like a point, and at [00:42:00] that point there were light floodlights that shown onto the yard. And I, uh, for whatever reason, he determined in my teenage years that I should be the one to climb up on the, what's that kind of ladder where you're, it's not like.
Like this, you push out one end. Yeah. You lean against foot. Yeah. Um, a draw ladder maybe. Anyway, uh, and I was to climb up and do it and. I am brave in a lot of ways, but I'm not tough. And, you know, going up on a rickety ladder, uh, didn't feel safe to me. I, I had to tell my dad, I'm, I, I wasn't like a snotty teen.
I don't think. I, I'm happy, I was happy to help, but I just didn't feel safe or comfortable doing it. And I remember feeling like, uh, uh, this is a no go for me. You know, ask my sister, find somebody else. Um. He looked at me and he said, if there was an audience here, you would do it. And [00:43:00] when I say that, people have to figure out what it takes for them to walk into a room or into a spotlight, into a meeting and show people the best that have to offer.
It's a very personal decision. That's really what I'm talking about. He was right. If I have eyes on me, I know my superpower, my supercharge. When somebody throws me a ball, I can catch it. I have spidey senses on stage in front of an audience. I can hear things different. I can find the jokes. That's just what's become true for me.
And every single one of you has some superpower that. You can tap into or not, it's, but it's your responsibility to figure out how you get there so that your best days and your worst days aren't an accident. My dad helped me figure that out really early on, whether there's people in the room watching me or not.
When I'm not feeling brave or safe or I have to do something that feels hard, I imagine an [00:44:00] audience. Eyes on me. Now, I know that that wouldn't work for all of you. I know that, but. That's not the point. High performers know what works for them. And when I'm working with the leader, one of the most meaningful things we do, we think about managing mindset is what does it take for you to show people the best you have to offer in the moments that matter most?
It's very personal exploration.
Donald Thompson: I am gonna let that be the last word. Um, thank you for sharing that openly. Thank you for that. Um. That closing. Um, Ari, how can people get in touch with you? Um, great, like, 'cause uh, I wanna make sure that like, as people are enjoying this moment and they're hearing the unique way and the unique perspective you're putting on communication, on leadership, how can people get in touch?
Ari Butler: Thank you so much. Uh, the AB three group, if you put a www dot. And then the ab three group.com. You will find us, [00:45:00] you'll find us at that same title on LinkedIn, and you can always reach out directly to me at Ari at the ab three group.com, and it'll be my pleasure to continue this conversation with any one of you.
Donald Thompson: Ari, this has been a meaningful conversation. What stands out is leaders who make that great impact aren't the ones who try to sound to be perfect. They're the ones who show up with clarity, presence, and trust. That really matter. Uh, that's what we're trying to do with hi Tane leadership. Uh, we thank you for being a part of our team, a part of our network.
Now, uh, we're not only friends now, but we're a part of each other's team. And so if we can help one another, it's not whether or not we will do it, it's just how do we get it on the calendar and get the timing together. And so what I'd like to say to our audience is this has been great. Thank you all for trusting us with your time, uh, and your energy and listening to us and, and DT over and out.
How about make it a great day? Thank you for joining us on High Octane Leadership with Donald Thompson. Today's [00:46:00] episode is a step in our collective journey towards leadership excellence. Remember, every story we share and every insight we gain is a piece in the puzzle of our leadership journey. For more insight and detail, hit the subscribe button so that we can stay connected.
For deeper information and more episodes, go to donald thompson.com. Continue to lead with vision and purpose, and until we meet again, embrace your role as a high tane leader in the ever evolving world of business.