Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Education is more than the accumulation of knowledge. It’s the growth we experience when digging deep into the topics, systems, and ways of thinking that give flavor to life. Enlighten Me is dedicated to bringing listeners into the world of the unknown and providing meaningful insights into issues that affect us all. In each episode, we bring in researchers and experts from a wide range of fields to discuss a topic and how it relates to their industry.
Part of the TXST Podcast Network: https://www.txst.edu/podcast-network.html
Speaker 1 (00:06):
I am Lane Fortenberry.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I'm Jeremy Thomas
Speaker 1 (00:09):
And this is Enlighten Me.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
So Lane, would you consider yourself an outdoors person? Do you like to get outdoors a lot?
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Yeah, definitely. My wife and I are big parks, national parks, people. So we like to go to one or two a year, so we spend a lot of time doing trails and walking around lakes and ponds and stuff. And obviously being in San Marco, we have a pretty nice trail system here and a lot of lakes and stuff like that to check out. So we definitely like to get outside and I feel like it's really good for us to be able to go out there, get natural sunlight and things like that.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yeah, I can definitely relate to that. That's one of the things I love the most about being in San Marcos and the Hill Country in general. As you said, there's just so many trailhead and parks that you can go visit and I think probably every day I find myself outside at least for 10, 15 minutes a day to just kind of unwind and relax and I just notice that it just makes me feel a lot better no matter what's going on, what time of day it is. If I just spend a few minutes outside, I feel like I'm just in a much more clear mind space and I feel like I'm just in a better positive mood when I come back indoors. And so have you ever visited anywhere on the West Coast or Pacific Northwest at all?
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Not necessarily on the coast. We've done some trails like in San Diego before and we've gone to Yosemite a couple of times and we've gone to Sequoia, not necessarily on the coast, but we've been to some parks out there and it's nice with the elevation and then even here, if we're just working in the office, it's nice just to honestly just go out and just take a break and just walk around the ponds out in JCK and sort of betters your mood. So it's nice.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah, I like being in this part of campus because as you mentioned, the JCK ponds are right there, so it's literally just a minute or two walk downstairs or on the elevator even faster, go outside by the ponds, check out the birds and the turtles and whatnot, and it just puts me in a much better mood. And so I used to always think that I was just making these kinds of things up that I would tell my family and friends when I go outside, I feel like I'm in a better mood and it just is good for stress relief and whatnot. But did you know that there's actually research that backs up the claims, that being outdoors and around nature actually is good psychologically and has emotional benefits?
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I would imagine that there would be some around there and I bet that we have some people at Texas University who look into that kind of thing. So who are you able to talk to?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
So I was able to talk with Dr. Christine Norton, she's a professor over in the School of Social Work and spend a little time with her just to talk about the actual research that's involved in some of the latest findings about how spending just a few minutes a day outside in nature is actually beneficial for your mental health.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
My name is Christine Norton and I'm a professor in the School of Social Work at Texas State. I have been at Texas State 17 years. I just finished my 17th year and do research in the School of Social Work as well as teach and contribute service in the community in two distinct areas, but I kind of combine those two. One is my foster care research. I started a program at Texas State called FACES, which is foster care alumni creating educational success, and it is a campus support initiative and partnership with the Dean of Students office. And I'm the faculty advisor for our FACES student organization. And so I've done research on campus support programs for students with lived experience in foster care. And then I also am an outdoor therapy researcher, and so I do a lot of research on structured mental health interventions that partner with nature and utilize experiential practices.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
I'm kind of curious what's kind of the overall goal of the FACES program here at Texas State? What's the overall mission of that program?
Speaker 3 (03:47):
The mission of that program is, I mean it's an academic retention program, so the goal is to recruit, support and retain and graduate students with lived experience in foster care. So the graduation rates, there's a lot of different research out there, but they're pretty low nationally for students who have experience in the foster care system. And a lot of that is because of being academically under prepared, again, dealing with complex trauma and mental health and then also once you get to college, not having the concrete material and emotional support that you need. So the campus support initiative at Texas State is really meant to build a community of peer support for those students because again, if I know that you were in foster care and I was in foster care, we're going to bond and then we don't have to explain it. We don't even have to tell each other our story.
(04:42):
We just know like, oh, you went through some stuff, me too. And look at us. We're both here. And again, the outdoor therapy piece, when I've taken students to do things together experientially, whether that's in nature or doing community service or even just gathering for a meal, I notice that those relationships really form so much easier. And so that's the goal is really to support the academic success of these students while also building this peer community so that they are experiencing those healthy connections with each other, which I think they then take with them once they leave Texas State.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
That's awesome to hear. I really loved hearing you talk about how important it's to have that connection and that partnership with students and how useful and valuable that can be when you come around to trying to actually provide assistance when you already have that established commonality with students. I think that's really important for sure.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Yeah, and in foster care students have a saying nothing about us, without us, and that really came out of some of the paternalism of the helping professions. Unfortunately, sometimes we try to help people without asking them first what they need. And so this group of is pretty good at advocating for themselves in the sense of like, �Hey, actually this is what we need or this is what works.� And so the whole program has been built around student voice, which is I think the only way to go as a social worker.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
That's a great way to put it. And so I'm just kind of curious about your background. How did you originally get interested in social work and outdoor therapy just in general? What kind of drew you to that career field?
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Yeah, I mean I grew up doing a lot outside. My mom actually was a pheasant hunter. She hunted. I don't hear a lot about a lot of moms on.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Yeah, me either. Yeah, that's definitely the first time I've heard about that.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
I grew up just going on hunting trips with my mom and camping and both of my parents had done outdoor programs growing up. My dad was a camp kid up in Northern Minnesota, so we kind of had that embedded in our family. And then when I was a college student, I actually did an Outward Bound course and Outward Bound is an international outdoor education program that started in the 1940s really. And so I did a 10 day multi-element course backpacking, canoeing, and rock climbing in the woods of Northern Maine. And honestly, it changed my life and at the end of that course, my outdoor educators said to me, my instructors, Hey, you could do what we do if you would ever want to. And that really planted a seed. And then once I learned that there were academic programs in the field of outdoor education and outdoor therapy, I decided to pursue both the master of science in outdoor experiential education as well as a master of social work.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Since we're out here talking about your history with the outdoor therapy and just kind of your career path as we're out here outdoors listening to the wind blow and as the bird chirping, can you just kind of define what outdoor therapy is and just kind of how that's different from traditional therapy? Because I think a lot of people think of therapy as just that you go to sit in a dark room with the therapist on the other side talking about things you don't really want to talk about in public.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
So can you talk about just what �
Speaker 3 (08:01):
That sounds terrible, by the way.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
So just kind of tell people what the different methods of therapy is and how useful it can be for folks.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
And I'm joking talk therapy is really important. I myself have engaged in meeting with a therapist in the community and it is essential to really be able to address difficult issues in our lives if we're going to heal them. That being said, for a lot of people, that very direct approach of just sitting one-on-one talking can be very overwhelming, very intimidating. Even the medical model of treatment, which is based on assessment, diagnosis and treatment feels very sterile and pathologizing like, oh, what's wrong with me? And I take a really trauma-informed approach to helping people heal, which is instead of asking the question, what's wrong with me asking the question, well, what happened? We all have things in our lives that wounded us that we carry. And so to heal them, we do have to face them. And I also think we need to come into contact with our own resilience.
(09:04):
And so my experience outdoors is that nature gives me an opportunity to experience connection, to experience belonging, to experience sometimes challenge and adventure. So the way that I look at it is outdoor therapy kind of has two buckets and one is being in nature. It's what we're doing right now. We're sitting outside with these beautiful trees. We feel the wind on our skin, we hear the birds. We're not actively doing anything, but there are benefits that we're still experiencing. And this is kind of an ecos psychology perspective of being in nature. It might include things like forest bathing or mindfulness or even kind of horticultural therapy, things that really are kind of more downregulating for our nervous system. And then there's the other bucket, which is adventure therapy, which is a little bit more focused on doing in nature. So that might be hiking or mountain biking or whitewater rafting or rock climbing, those outdoor pursuits.
(10:10):
And then that is more of an upregulating intervention for our nervous system. Highly engaging gets our bodies moving, and they're both so important. And part of what we do as outdoor therapists is we assess what our client needs to heal that nervous system, whether they need upregulating or downregulating, and then try to match the intervention to meet those treatment needs of the client. And honestly, there's a great article in the Journal of Mindfulness that studied adult men in a substance abuse treatment center and they looked at treatment outcomes, but they also utilize the adventure therapy experience scale, which looks at treatment variables to try to figure out, well, what is the magic sauce? Because you get nature, you get physical movement, you get peer support, you get your relationship with the therapist. And what they found in that study was that both being and doing in nature for this population were important that these guys really loved getting out and paddling their canoe on the lake and experiencing that physical engagement, but they also liked pausing and watching the sun, the way it hit the water and the brightness and brilliance of that. And so this combination of being and doing to me is where health lies. We all are active people, we're out in the world. It reminds me of the Jesuits. I worked at a Catholic school as a social worker for a long time in Chicago and they have this phrase that they want to be contemplatives in action, and that just really resonates for me.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yeah, definitely. Same here. Same here. I mean hearing that you describe all this makes a lot of sense because I'm an outdoors person and sometimes when I'm just taking a walk on a sidewalk in my neighborhood, I just feel like I'm just so much more relaxed. I'm just listening to the sound of the birds or just the wind blowing in my ears and it just feels like I'm not worried about what's happening tomorrow or what happened yesterday. I'm just kind of at peace as I'm outdoors. And so that's really interesting to hear you talk about, I think you said ecopsychology. So can you kind of define a little bit more what that term means?
Speaker 3 (12:16):
Yeah, so like I said, there's kind of ecotherapy and adventure therapy are two components of outdoor therapy, and I think traditionally ecopsychology and ecotherapy have really centered the primacy of the natural world, whereas I think sometimes adventure therapists have centered the primacy of the experience, the kinesthetic engagement, and I don't think either is right or wrong. What I actually think we're learning in the broader field of outdoor therapy is that both are really important.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
I know you kind of mentioned that you do a lot of work with students here at Texas State with the outdoor therapy program, but can you talk about what some of the projects or some of the research that they're involved with, so are there any student led initiatives where they get to talk about and lead their own outdoor therapy sessions at all at Texas State?
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Yeah, that's a great question. So I definitely work at engaging my faces students in the outdoors through going to university camp, which is a jewel of Texas State University, a little hidden jewel.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
I love it. I've been there a few times.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
It is amazing. It's very relaxing on the Blanco River and the trails and the overlook. It's just one of my happy places. And so experiencing that transformation in my students there, kayaking, hiking. Also, I've taken my FACES students to the rock wall here at the climbing gym at the rec center.
(13:40):
And again, just having these really novel experiences where they get to challenge themselves and do things that they maybe didn't think they were capable of or didn't have the opportunity to do growing up has been really transformational to watch. As far as teaching and research, I teach a class in outdoor adventure therapy, which is a graduate elective in the School of Social Work, but it's actually open interdisciplinary. I've had obviously counseling psychology students. I've had a lot of rec therapy students, I've had outdoor rec students. I've even had criminal justice graduate students take the class because we do see the application of outdoor therapy across the continuum of care in multiple systems. And so it's been really fun for me to make sure that that is an interdisciplinary course. And so in that class, that class is also a designated service learning class, so students are expected to engage in community-based projects that involve the outdoors as well as facilitate outdoor therapy activities to practice their facilitation skills with each other and sometimes with members of the community. Can you
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Talk about how outdoor therapy can help veterans specifically? I know a lot of times veterans, they obviously when they're deployed out somewhere, they're outdoors anyway and so some veterans come back unfortunately with mental health issues like PTSD and whatnot. So how can outdoor therapy techniques benefit that specific population?
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Yeah, that's a great question. And we are super fortunate here in central Texas to have a lot of initiatives even at Texas State through the Veterans Alliance that have incorporated nature and outdoor therapy with veterans. We had a program with the Meadow Center years ago called Operations Scuba that we did some research on. We also worked with the Sierra Club and did some partnerships with their military outdoors program in partnership also with Outward Bound. I think what I really value about getting veterans outside and what the research really shows is that what you're doing is you're creating experientially a community of peer support. And you have to think about this is a population of folks that mental health is stigmatized, therapy is stigmatized, and in a lot of ways it's a very practical concern. Some of them are like, I don't want that on my record or I won't be able to serve if they're still active.
(16:06):
But even for veterans who are done with their service, there's still that stigma. And so what we've seen in the research and in practice is that when we take veterans outside and they build really naturally, like you and I are hiking together, we're sweating together, we're laughing together, we start telling stories. And what we've seen is that developing of peer support in that context is a portal to more formal help seeking behavior. Because if someone's got substance abuse issues or someone is suicidal or dealing with significant PTSD, one of their buddies, almost like a battle buddy is going to say to them in the context of a hike or an outdoor activity like, dude, you got to get some help, man, you're not okay, you're struggling. And that coming from a peer who's also been in the military is far more effective than someone at the VA or some therapist just being like, here's a diagnosis, here's some medication and here's some therapy.
(17:09):
Obviously again, there's a need for all of those things, but too many veterans are not seeking formal psychosocial support because of the stigma, but then when you get a peer saying it, they're much more inclined. And so that's been a really beautiful part of the research as well as the impact that being outdoors has on trauma recovery. Because of what you said, Jeremy, you are engaged when you're on your neighborhood walk, Hey, listening to the birds again, you feel that sun on your face, you're not in your past. And if you think about trauma, trauma creates a hypervigilance where people have flashbacks. They're sometimes embedded in those past and wounds or they've developed a hypervigilance and an anxiety about their future and they cannot experience the beauty and the joy and the connection of the present moment. And so outdoor therapy gives them some experience with that present moment awareness in a way that's shown to be really healing.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
That's very interesting that you say that because sometimes I catch myself being stressed out, worrying about the past or the future when I'm just sitting in my living room doing nothing. But if I just go into the backyard sometimes just sit down and just watch the sun setting or just watch the clouds passing by, it just makes a huge difference because it kind of just forces me, like you said, to be in the present moment and not worrying about the future or the past. And so I can definitely understand how that can be useful for people regardless of their population and what their mental health history is. Just being outdoors kind of forces you to be exposed to different sounds and different sites and feelings that puts you in the present moment. So that's very interesting to hear you say that.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Well, and the research is amazing because I'm going to have a pop quiz. Guess how much time the research, there's been two different studies. One was a systematic review, the other was a meta-analysis looking at dosage, right? How much vitamin nature, vitamin G, we call it vitamin green, do you need on a daily basis to experience those long-term physical and mental health benefits of being outside? What do you think
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Per day? I'm going to guess an hour.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Ooh, guess what? 10 minutes.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Wow, just 10 minutes.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
10 minutes a day, 10 get outside sitting or walking in nature 10 minutes a day and that's free. There's a social justice element to this too because not everyone has access to quality care, but to walk outside and experience that.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Makes me feel a lot better about the walks that I take while I'm at work. I take a couple of breaks once in the morning, once in the afternoon I try to at least a couple of times a day at the office to get outdoors and take a quick walk around the JCK ponds or somewhere around campus just to take my mind off of the things that are going on in my email inbox and just get outdoors and just walk around. And it seems to always just make a big difference, like you said, just a few minutes and so 10 minutes a day. It's very interesting to hear that it makes that big of a difference.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Yeah, it's exciting. It's exciting to think about the way that we can take ownership of our own physical and mental health, and obviously it makes you kind of an activist in the sense that if we are going to experience the physical and mental health benefits of nature, we also have to protect it, right? We have to engage in really conserving and protecting our natural world because our wellbeing is directly tied to it. So seeing more people develop those conservation behaviors is also a really positive side benefit of getting outdoors.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
So are there any specific mental health disorders that outdoor therapy can really benefit?
Speaker 3 (20:38):
I think that that is the question that the research is really trying to answer right now. I think a lot of the research has been very diagnostic, meaning it's looking more at kind of cross-cutting symptoms that might show up in depression, might show up in anxiety, might show up in PTSD, like dysregulation of our nervous system or impulsivity or a difficulty tolerating distress or mood instability or even rumination. I remember reading a study about that ruminating when we get stuck on that mental loop, how being in nature and that present moment awareness can just kind of quiet that mental rumination. So I think that we're seeing a lot of research really looking at the specific physical health benefits like slowing your rate of respirations, reduction in blood pressure, even muscle tension kind of melting away outdoors. And I think right now we're really looking at, okay, so who is best served by being outdoors therapeutically? And so I do think that's where the research is starting to head.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
That was a really interesting conversation with Dr. Norton. And one thing that I really liked that we did was we didn't record that in the studio. It was fun to go outdoors and record it, so hopefully whenever you listen to it, you can kind of hear the wind. I remember it was pretty windy that day and a lot of the birds were around chirping and things like that. So it was kind of cool to also do that in an environment where she's comfortable in while we talked about outdoor therapy, that was a cool conversation.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Yeah, I think it was definitely fitting having some of that ambiance sound in the background, like you mentioned the birds and just hearing some of the sounds of nature in the background. I think it just kind of helped add some of that element of peace and tranquility, which is kind of the whole point of the experiential therapy of being outdoors and how nature can just help reduce your stress and just put you in a better mood overall. And so I think it was very fitting and very appropriate for us to have that conversation with Dr. Norton outdoors. But what's interesting is that you also know that although you can spend time outdoors with sunlight and nature and trees and water, those things are very beneficial, but there's also a lot of things that you can do indoors as well. There's a lot of elements to how you can design your workspace and even your rooms or your offices at home that can actually benefit your mental health as well. Were you aware of that?
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Not really. I feel like whenever COVID started and a lot of people had to switch to working from home, I feel like I saw a lot of headlines or articles about sort of trying to design your workspace to better suit you and I guess your mood and things like that, especially when things outdoors are stressful. So I never really read too much into it. So do we have anyone at Texas State who researches maybe interior design and mental health?
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yes. I was very lucky to have a couple of people join us to talk about some of the benefits of indoor therapy and the different things you can do in your workplace, in the home that kind of touches on those mental health benefits you just mentioned. So I was able to talk with Dr. Nadim Adi, he's the professor of interior design and also was able to talk with Dr. Mais Aljunaidy. She is a professor in the school of psychology and they shared some really good interesting tips, including a new class that you're teaching this fall semester at Texas State. It just kind of goes into some of the different techniques and things you can keep in mind when you're designing your workspace or your office at home or even your bedroom. Just different things you can take into consideration that can put you in a better mood and mental health state overall.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
My name is Nadim Adi. I'm an assistant professor in the Department of Interior Design here at Texas State.
Speaker 5 (24:12):
My name is Mace Aljunaidy. I am an assistant professor of instruction at the Department of Psychology at Texas State University.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
And so one of the things I'm sure y'all noticed is that there's just lots of different buildings that have gone up, whether there's apartment complexes around town or even just new residence halls on campus and even some more green space on campus, which is really interesting because we chatted a few weeks ago with another faculty member here on campus and we learned about some of the outdoor therapy techniques when it comes to just spending time in nature, getting sunlight and hearing the sounds of wildlife and the positive impacts that can have on someone's mental health. But I would love to spend the day to talk a little bit more about how more interior design can have positive impacts on a person's mental health. So that could be very interesting to discuss. I think.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
Yeah, well definitely it's almost coded into us on a genetic level. We need to have access to plants or green elements within design and the more the better. So definitely bringing the nature inside or taking a break and walking in a park is something that definitely is beneficial for your mental health and productivity. And if you're a student, it makes you study easier, I suppose.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
I hear a lot about some of the occupational best practices when you're at your desk and certain things you're supposed to do, such as taking a few minutes to just take a stretch break so you're not sitting down all the time adjusting the blue light levels on your screen because it's not good to stare into the screen for so long. But it's very interesting to hear that there are other elements of design of a workspace or a home that can impact your mental health as opposed to just your physical health. So in your research, what are some of those things you've learned that are best practices that people can kind of take into consideration?
Speaker 4 (25:59):
So quite a bit of things actually between the research we've done between the two of us. But one of the things is that there's no kind of one size fits all, but some of the things is avoid blue light, try to go with warmer light color. And I tell my students that if you want to know the difference between cool light and warm light, just touch the light bulb with it. If �oww,� that's warm light and that's what you're aiming for, but at the same time have some access to nature, a window or even if it's a picture of a plant or even better if it's a plant that really helps and declutter your environment, it's really tempting to have everything on hand but decluttering it keeps your mind less worried about all of the stuff happening around you.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
I definitely have a lot of things on my desk that I need to declutter, and I'm sure that definitely has an impact on just how productive I feel throughout the day. And so are there specific psychological mental health ailments that are specifically geared or can specifically benefit from some of these best practices that you're sharing? Is there any psychological research that shows that these activities are best for certain mental health ailments?
Speaker 5 (27:18):
There are many design features like colors, the lighting, furniture, artwork, all of these can impact the mental health of people. Exposure to natural light can reduce the level of depression, for example, and make the person feels better. The level of light in the room can make the person perform better, whatever task they are doing and so on. So people general research focus about how interior design can impact the mental wellbeing in general, my focus is how interior design can support people with mental illnesses. So I'd like to mention that Dr. Adi is an architect and I'm a physician. He's actually my husband. So when I graduated from my PhD, I was seven months pregnant at that time and shortly after that I had a baby and I spent some maternity leave at home. At that time we were living in Canada, he was working on interior design court for people with dementia and it was a code on a national level in Canada. At that time I started to ask him question, okay, what about a building code for people who suffer from schizophrenia, from sleeping disorders, from depression, from eating disorders? Is there any building code for that? And we try to find an answer both of us. And we did write a paper called �Architecture, Mental Architecture and Mental Disorders.� And we found that the focus is mainly when it comes to a building code, the focus is mainly on dementia and autism, and there isn't much when it comes to other mental illnesses. And this led to the next step after that.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
We noticed looking at the research because that's what we're wired to do in research. Okay, let me check the literature. But we noticed that not all mental health challenges are created equal. If you're dealing with dementia or autism, then you, you're really covered. There's a lot of research out there to look at these things. But if say you're dealing with depression, anxiety, which pretty much all of us at some point or level, there's not a lot out there. And that paper started to metastasize to a bigger project, which is the book Introduction to Architectural Psychopathology, which is the first of its kind. And luckily we are now teaching it as also the first course of its kind as far as we know worldwide. And in it we kind of talk and say, well, okay, we cover the biological aspect, that's what Dr. Mace does. And I come in and say, well, this is what we do with when it comes to lighting, this is what we do when it comes to colors, and we kind of go into it one by one. So that's quite a bit of fun, but also it's quite exciting as well.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
So that's very interesting to hear you share all that information because as I can imagine, it's a very new field of research you mentioned. So I'm curious, where did the seed first come from? How did you both first get interested in this aspect of research to begin with?
Speaker 4 (30:49):
My undergrad was in architecture and one of my pet peeves with the field in general was the saying, trust me, I'm an architect or trust me, I'm an engineer. And it always kind of bugged me that, okay, we have to build a building and leave it in the wild for a few months, years and then figure out if it works or not. And from there I started looking in two ways to test out buildings. And I noticed that nobody kind of tests buildings when it comes to mental health. And there's so many examples by great architects and the buildings for their time that were considered groundbreaking. But a few months or years down the line, research showed that some of these buildings had elevated rates of suicide or elevated rates of crime because people felt that these buildings were so impersonal. This was in the sixties and seventies, and the kind of prevailing narrative for buildings was, well, it's a machine you live in or you work in and that's it.
And people didn't like that. They want to have control over their environment and be able to customize the place. And that in a way kind of led me down the rabbit hole, oh, if that's what people think about the type of building they're living in, well what happens when we look at the world through the lens of a mental illness or a mental health challenge? And at the time I was going back and forth but bugging Mace with so many questions, it would be like, oh, if a person has depression, can I do this or can I do that? And I got told off on a number of occasions, but that's kind of what planted the seed to kind of wander down that rabbit hole.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
It's very interesting because I've noticed myself and a lot of my colleagues talk about on certain days when it's gloomy outside, you just feel a little bit tired and just a little bit more stressed out than normal, but if the sun's coming through the window, you just feel more vibrant and energetic. And we've added more paintings and pictures to our walls in our offices and people just seem to be in a more exciting mood. So what is it about having certain visual elements in the office space or at home that just kind of impacts your mood and things like that?
Speaker 5 (33:13):
So far, we don't have building codes for mental illnesses, but we know that some features can either mitigate the symptoms of mental illnesses or trigger them. So some features like long narrow corridors can trigger the symptoms in people suffering from post traumatic stress. They feel there is no exit, there is nowhere to escape and so on. Some aspects in design like natural light can improve the symptoms of depression and reduce a period of hospitalization in people suffering from depression. Creating yoga room and room for socializing can also improve the symptoms and fasten the recovery in people with schizophrenia. So we have these a lot now in the hospitals where people with schizophrenia need to go and spend some time. So we do need research to support many aspects in design and see if they can improve mental illnesses or trigger the symptoms of mental illnesses.
(34:18):
Art, for example, art is subjective, but there is a study shows that art about nature can improve the mood of people and the mental health of people. Other generic other types of art like abstract art is not very helpful, but we need more studies. The architecture psychopathology is in its infancy. We need more studies to know exactly what's going on. There is something called architectural psychology and it focuses about the effect of architecture on people's behavior and mental wellbeing in general. But architecture psychopathology is dedicated for people suffering from mental illnesses, how we can make the interior design or architecture support people suffering from mental illnesses.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Thank you for sharing that. And so I'm just kind of curious from both of you, what's your favorite thing that you've done at your office or at home that you think is just a really good tip that you would share with me, my colleagues, that you would really recommend?
Speaker 4 (35:22):
I think myself, I'm an avid action figure collector, so one of the things I did in my home office was having them on display. So whenever I need to take a visual break, I can just turn my head to the side and look at something that you enjoy regardless of what it is. And also I've got some landscape pictures in my office too, so that helps. I find that it helps quite a bit on my end.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Okay. And what kind of action figures are we talking about?
Speaker 4 (35:57):
Well, it pretty much runs the gambit all the way from the Batman and DC all the way to computer games and all of that. So it all started with me going to a flea market and kind of picking up one action figure and the whole thing spiraled in a sense. That's how it happens. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Awesome. Dr. Mace, do you have any information you can recommend?
Speaker 5 (36:18):
Yes. So some aspects are subjective, it's different between people, but keeping the space organized, having plants in the room, having access to natural lights through the windows, all of these can be really supportive and help.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
Just kind of curious, based on your current research and just the way you're involved with these types of research studies now, where do you all see architecture going in the next five years or so? Or what do you hope to see it go? Do you hope to see more buildings or residence halls on college campuses implement certain design techniques or what do you think is the next step in this progress?
Speaker 4 (36:57):
I think one of the things that we're kind of moving in from say eighties, nineties going into now is we're noticing that architecture is becoming more and more customized to the individual. And with things coming like new technologies like ai, like 3D printing and rapid prototyping is maybe a prediction, but I see a point in time where the space we live in or the place we live in would become an active participant. So in a sense kind of space odyssey and how but much more pleasant where it's kind of like, oh, how are you feeling today? Well, I kind of stressed, oh, let me kind of help out. And because you have that conversation for a long time with the room, the room kind of knows what to do in terms of color, light music, even maybe certain smells or so because we don't see the sense of smell or taste used in architecture. Unless you're really wonky, you're licking the walls. But that's kind of what I see it kind of going to. We're moving away from the mass production of units and luckily technology is kind of getting there to a point that it can support it.
Speaker 5 (38:21):
So he's architect, he knows more about me when it comes to this subject, but as a researcher, I would love to see more research about these topics. We do need a building code for mental illnesses. Architects usually don't communicate psychologists, architects study architecture and that's it. Psychologists usually study things related to human psychology and that's it. There is nothing bringing them together. This is why we establish this course. We want this to become a practice in the future. We want more communication between architects and psychologists. We want a new generation to be fully aware of these aspects and try to improve it and take it to a higher level. Also, I would love to see more research using virtual reality. So before building something to try to use virtual reality and see how people are reacting to these buildings and is it really beneficial or not?
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Yeah, it's very interesting to hear the virtual reality aspect because that allows you to simulate the thing before you actually spend all the money and the resources actually building the building.
Speaker 4 (39:27):
Exactly. So
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Are there any VR research going on at Texas State? Are your students involved with any VR research at all.
Speaker 4 (39:34):
We've got quite a bit of it going on, and we try to get our students to use the resources we've got in the library, and I'm trying to set up a mini VR lab in our department so that the students don't have to take the whole walk to get there because then if it's beside you, you're more likely to use it. So that's one of those things, and that was one of the things that kind of egg me in my PhD research is, well, can I use VR to test out buildings and lifelike buildings and all of that. So I think it's a wonderful tool. I think the one kind of disconnect is that people think it acts like the movies and in reality it's kind of slightly less impressive. But we're getting there though.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
What would you say is the most surprising thing you've discovered in your research?
Speaker 4 (40:29):
I was surprised the most by the type of light bulb you've got in your room really makes or breaks the space and things that you kind of take for granted in a sense, because fluorescent light versus a regular light bulb or an LED light bulb, these are relatively very cheap kind of swaps and it really elevates the feel of the room. And if I go on a tangent a little bit was as if someone has epilepsy, pretty much fluorescent light bulbs are not something you want to put in front of them. And because it flickers all the time, we're lucky that we don't see the flicker. But if someone happens to see the flicker and they have epilepsy, that is problematic to them. And there was an episode of Pok�mon in the, that was aired in Japan that had a lot of flickering and people didn't know about the issues with epilepsy at the time. Well, they didn't think that it was an issue and hundreds of people ended up in the hospital and that episode was banned. So to me that's kind of the strength of a small thing. Okay, maybe switch off the TV or switch out your light bulb for something that you feel comfortable with, and that's a very quick kind of fix sometimes to a space.
Speaker 5 (42:05):
For me, it's apart from research, for me, natural light is a great aspect, have a window with natural light coming from it. If you can't try to take a walk outside, even if you have short break, like lunch hour, go outside and walk, if you don't have enough natural light in the room, it improves the mood. It makes people feel fresh, they work better. So exposure to night light is a key thing to do.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
I really loved both of these interviews because we sort of got what you can do outdoors and then what you can also do indoors, and they gave a lot of really great tips that I'm going to try and implement at either my home office or just in my house in general, but also even at my office at work, I'm sure that there's some other things that I could potentially do to sort of either help with stress or anxiety or anything else. So I really liked these at two interviews back to back. I think they were really beneficial.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Likewise, I like them because one, it kind of makes me feel a little validated for years. Like I said, I've always spent time outdoors and I just always find myself feeling much more relaxed and at peace when I spend time just walking around, whether it's Purgatory Creek or if it's just like you said out here at Sewell, at the JCK ponds, I always feel like a much better, much recharged person if I spend just a few minutes outside. And so now that I know there's actual scientific research for outdoor therapy, it makes me feel even more confident and validated to make sure I take those breaks in between work sessions and spend as much time outdoors in my free time as possible when I can. And also being able to hear about interior design and different things you can do at home and in your office.
(43:50):
That also has given me motivation and whatnot to just take more things into consideration as to far as how I design my setup and how much time I'm spending near window and near plants to make sure I'm getting sunlight even if I'm not able to get outdoors. I think there's a lot of cool things that we learned with both of these interviews where we can just take them into consideration and implement them in our personal lives and in our work lives, and just really look out for our mental and emotional health with just small steps like they shared with both of us today.
This was another episode of Enlighten Me. Thank you all for joining us and we'll see you on the next episode.
Speaker 6 (44:24):
This podcast is a production of the division of Marketing and Communications at Texas State University Podcast. Appearing on the Texas State Podcast network represent the views of the host and guests not of Texas State University.