DH - Thomas Healy
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[00:00:00] What I do is inconsequential. Why I do what I do is I get to shorten people's journeys every day. What I love about our hospitality industry is that it's our mission to make people feel cared for while on their journeys. Together, we'll explore what hospitality means in the built environment, in business, and in our daily lives.
I'm Dan Ryan, and this is Defining Hospitality.
This podcast is sponsored by Berman Falk Hospitality Group, a design driven furniture manufacturer who specializes in custom case goods and seating for hotel guest rooms.
Dan: Today's guest is somebody who brings over 30 years of hospitality leadership experience to the table. He's skilled in developing and strategizing initiatives to drive growth within our hospitality industry. His career spans working for diamond rock, hospitality, strategic hotels and resorts, starwood hotels, and Hyatt.
He's been featured in hotel report, hospitality net, lodging magazine, PR Newswire, and many, many more. He is [00:01:00] the president and chief operating officer at rock bridge, hospitality management, ladies and gentlemen, Tom Healy. Welcome Tom.
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: Hey, Dan, how are you? Thanks for having me.
Dan: you know, uh, also he's a fellow Jersey boy like me. So, you know, welcome.
We pump fists.
Thomas: Yes, we do. We do. We do. We, uh, yeah, it's a coming from Jersey is a special place. it, uh, it toughens you up. It's toughens you up. Makes you, uh, And it gives you perspective, for
Dan: Yes, growing up in the shadow of a, of a major city. Um, it does definitely toughen us up. before we get into everything, I just want everyone to know, aside from our Jersey background, that I've known about you and heard about you for the two plus decades that I've been in the industry.
Um, mostly from your tenure at strategic hotels and resorts. And I know like you've worked with Many people and you've impacted them positively that I know [00:02:00] and they've just learned so much from working with you And I'm sure you've paid that forward in all of the different seats that you've sat in
One of the things I'd like to talk to you about within the vein of your career is from my from me knowing you Strategic there's all these like super big format luxury incredible portfolio hotels. Like they're kind of the envy of any ownership group, I would say, right? There are these just really gold jewel, gold jewel kind of marquee properties.
Um, and then as you evolved, you went over to Rockbridge, which is heavily weighted in the independent space. And that's really where I got to sit down with you and get to know you. Is that the, in, in, through the independent lodging Congress, the first question I'm going to ask and I ask everyone, but thinking about that.
More independent space. Um, What does hospitality mean to you, Tom?
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: Hospitality. Boy, that's, uh, it's, uh, growing up in [00:03:00] the restaurant business in New Jersey, I, uh, when I think about hospitality, it's pretty simplistic. You don't have to, uh, make it more than it is. I always you know, someone greeted you at your, came to your house and stayed at your house or, you know, how your mom and dad treated them, you know, they, they walked into the door, they gave them a good meal, they gave them a clean bedroom and then time and good conversatio on.
I mean, hospitality i that simple? I think it's It's about putting yourself second and putting others first. I think that's the biggest challenge. When you think about this crazy world we live in, how many people truly genuinely just like get pleasure out of making other people feel good. And I think that's, there's an element of that, that we, um, and it sounds naive and it sounds simple, but the reality is you, excel at this, you, you actually enjoy making other people feel better, Leadership's really about putting yourself second. You know, you think about those experiences, like growing up in a [00:04:00] supper club, my family had, you know, restaurants in, in Northern New Jersey and, and New York, and one of them was, was, was a supper club. It was this magical environment of, of where I was a kid grow up. And I, it was in the seventies, late seventies, early eighties. I saw that they were, they were people trying to make it on Broadway. I'll, you know, they're a very diverse group of individuals who cared deeply about each other,
Dan: where was that in Jersey?
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: it was in this little town called Byram Township is called Lovey's.
It was called Lovey's showcase, and it was a supper club and, you know, classic, uh, New Jersey in the middle of nowhere. It did really well on Fridays and Saturdays. And then the rest of the week, it struggled and
Dan: these were all people who wanted to be on Broadway. So there's like a real showmanship to it. Cause I, if I could just, I want to contextualize When you were telling me this, we were sitting there, I don't know where it was, maybe it was Denver, we were in person, and you were talking about it, I was like, oh, that [00:05:00] sounds, that sounds really cool and interesting, but I couldn't really visualize it, but then Tenye Kubak was sitting next to us, and she's like, oh my god, I used to go there as like a little, a little girl for like, when we had these big family nights, we would go there and have this big spectacle, so I just wanted to interrupt your story there, because It sounds like a really magical place almost out of, um, like a, a Wes Anderson movie, or I dunno, something just has this magical spirit to it where like everyone working there is just.
Passion and, and it's, it's just so memorable. And people would go there for like really important family memories to be created.
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: Well, funny, if you remember that story, get, when she got straight A's, that was her gift. She,
Dan: That's what it was. I forgot exactly what the gift was. So it was something that she worked for it.
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: she worked for it, and then she got, and then that's where she took her. That's, the irony of that story still blows my, blows my mind. But The
Dan: irony of that story is that she has [00:06:00] always, and will always get straight A's and everything she does.
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: she's, she's remarkable, right? Yeah.
Dan: She really is.
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: Yeah.
Dan: Okay. Carry on. Oh, wow.
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: work there back then, you know, you talk about alternative lifestyle or, you know, people be themselves outside, right in the workplace.
That was, it was very, um, It hadn't been accepted yet. And this place, in this environment, it was magic. People could be whoever they wanted to be. And there were many relationships and many, uh, truthfully, I can't say how many people that were there, fell in love, got married. Um, escaped the world with each other.
It was just a magical place that they were allowed to be themselves. And that was my, you know, my, my grandfather, my grandmother, my, my aunt, uh, my uncle, they were all it was family business. And so they just people were allowed to be themselves. And you grow up in that environment [00:07:00] and you see, I don't think you realize it when you're going through it.
And then you fast forward. I'm in the hospitality business working. For years and years. And then I never forget like I always felt like running hotels that the leadership in the building should represent the population, right? Because how do people relate? They want to they want to be able to relate best to to the leadership, right?
You trust you're going to trust and believe and and and the leadership. And so how do you do that? And and so, um, you know, people have a tendency to, you know, they have a tendency of if the population was Haitian, The housekeeping population was all Haitian, you know, the management should Haitian. They, we should help promote supervisors, making the managers and lead and lead because that's just, it's great for culture.
It's great for trust. It's great for, you know, just team dynamics. And so with that, it was always with that mindset that as I built, built teams, I was like, I want the most diverse teams. I want more women around me than men because they're more intuitive. They're more [00:08:00] thoughtful. And probably that's my growing up with my mother and my aunt and my. And my grandmother, I was raised by three women. My mom's two sisters couldn't have Children. So my mom shared us. And so amazing childhood that was restaurant based, but also a lot of love. And we traveled everywhere together. We did everything together. And and you that influence, you know, it's like everybody else you pick up, you pick up, you pick up things along the way that you, uh, you don't even realize you're picking up.
And so then fast forward running hotels and being a leader, you go, hey, I want my team to be diverse. And then, so I was always quick to be thoughtful about having a very diverse team. And then all of a sudden incentives started coming out in the early nineties around, you know, mid nineties about around, you know, having. Uh, in setting diversity, people of color, women, women of leadership. And I've said, geez, that's what I've always been doing that. And so the irony of the irony of the story is that where I'm building up to about this leadership comment is I went to it, there was diversity training at starboard way back when, [00:09:00] and I'm like, I'm not going to that.
I, can't do any more than I'm already doing. It's silly. I don't need to do this. It's a waste of money. And I thought, you got to go. And I'm like, I don't, I'm not going to go. And they, they made me go. the irony is I went to this silly training thinking I don't need this. And it turned out it was probably the best training I'd ever gone to because I sat in the room and, uh, we came off a break.
It was like day two. And it was, the room was purposefully diverse leaders. Um, they were all senior leaders from within Starwood. Men, women, people of color, everybody. And they, they, we came off a break and they were like playing Bill Baldy and it was amazing. And they put up this flip chart paper around, around the room and like Italian, Irish, you know, you know, black, white, uh, Japanese, Chinese.
Right. They, you name it. They had a flip chart pasted on the world and they get go around the room and then right. Not that you've ever said it, not that you ever think it's right, but anything you've ever heard, write it on the board. And like, everyone was kind of giggling. It was like, ah, you know, and I'm like, I can, [00:10:00] I make fun of everybody.
So if you make fun of everybody, you, you know, you, uh, you know, that's, that's just kind of how we grew up in New Jersey at a supper club. You made fun of everybody. That's how you got through the day. So I'm like, I'm going through like, we could, I can help their HR, they wouldn't write stuff down. I'm like, I'll write it, you know?
And so as it was going through. was, it was, everyone was laughing. Ha ha ha. And then when people started looking up at the board and holy cow, I can't believe someone wrote that. Holy cow. I can't. And then it got quieter and quieter and the proctor was pushing people like, come on, right? You've heard more, right?
More. And then people now are uncomfortably going around the room, writing stuff. And that meant by you, it's a diverse room as well. And so then, you know, quiet, quiet, quiet. take your seat. And, you know, and I remember it was dead silence in the room. he said, close your eyes. I closed my eyes and he goes, picture a time you felt like you didn't fit in. And I closed my eyes and went right back to. Freshman year, gym class, regional high school. I came from the smallest town. I was the smallest kid in my class. I didn't, [00:11:00] didn't have any relationships. First gym class. And I was the last pick, the default pick, right? Now, I remember when I was younger, I was a reasonably good athlete.
I mean, I was barefoot water skiing on my feet at like 10 years
Dan: Mm.
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: that I was the default pick in that gym class, like I just blew my mind. I got angry because I said, Oh, you're judging me because I'm short, right? And, uh, And so in my mind, I'm sitting there thinking about it.
Did it distract you? Did it? And I remember thinking, like being in class, being irritated by the kid that was the captain, that was the picker that day. He was in my history class and I wasn't focused on history learning. I was focused on, man, I want to get even with that kid for not picking me. And you think about those behaviors at like, you know, what do you, you're a freshman in high school. I remember sitting in this chair, sitting in the chair of my eyes closed. And I, and at that moment I said, you know what diversity is about? Diversity is all about productivity. It's really about being comfortable. And the thought that came into my head was leadership. My definition of leadership at that moment in that time was [00:12:00] making the most uncomfortable person in the room comfortable because when you do right, when you make people comfortable.
They're more dynamic, they're more creative, they, they, they're collaborative. You could, you could build pyramids without cranes, right? When you're inspired, right? And so, so really, leadership and hospitality, when I get back to it, is really about making people feel comfortable. How do you make them feel valued?
How do you make them feel, um, and then, and then being, and not being, once again, servitude. Like not, like you shouldn't be ashamed for being in hospitality. But once again, think about hospitality in the United States of America. Everyone's like, I'm going to law school and I'm in the hospitality business while I'm doing that, or I'm going to be an actor and I'm going to, but while I'm doing that, I'm going to make it on Broadway.
And while I'm doing that, I'm going to serve and be a server. Right. And so it's a very easy industry to participate in while you're planning to do something else. And there, you go to Europe, it's very different. You have. you know, people go into hospitality and that's what their career is, right?
They're going to [00:13:00] school for it. So it's an interesting, I think the dynamics of it here, you know, over the past 30 years, I went to school for it. I grew up in it, right? Like it's, it's, it's everything I've ever done and known. But, that's not as rare, right? That's, that's not common.
It's very, it's very rare. People, most people get into the hospital because they had a history major and they were doing something and then they, it evolved into it and they stayed in it. It was great. And that's how they got there. So I think when you back to the point is about servitude, you have to have an attitude about pleasing people.
I always say, how do we help people connect like the. know, we're not, we're not doing brain surgery. We're not saving lives, but we are in many ways, saving lives.
Dan: I want to, okay, actually on the saving live part, actually, I want to get to the saving life part, saving lives part in a, in a second, because often joke that, Hey, we're providing furniture to hotels. You know, we're, we're not like in an operating room providing, doing thoracic surgery or something like that.
But what I would say is [00:14:00] in anything that we do, actually. We'll dig into that now I love how you said if you really thought about diversity and thinking about that time where you were alone, right? And when people are in their most vulnerable or most depressed states, oftentimes it's because they're alone.
It's like a lack of human connection. There's or there's a need for human connection. That's not happening. And I think that that idea of hospitality, which is why I think this, this podcast has grown into other channels outside of what we do is hospital. The hospitality industry has like created a way to like break through those barriers.
But to hear you talk about diversity and thinking how that's being alone. It makes total sense because we provide these moments, whether it's like we're opening a hotel or going through a set of approvals or greeting someone at a door, or greeting someone at a front desk where it's an [00:15:00] opportunity where you get to, you don't have to, you get to say, Hey, how are you?
Have that really incredible. Person to person experience. You have that, um, you get to hear what's unsaid. You get to check out that vibe and like take it that extra step. What are some ways that you've found that through hospitality have really impacted others? And I don't know, and, and saved her life.
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: that's interesting. I, you know, I always said you, you'll never know, uh, if you save some lives by holding a door up and make, just making eye contact. The world's very lonely. It's probably more lonely now than it's ever been because of these, you know, the iPhones and everybody's heads down and you're not, you know, people aren't making eye contact and engaging with the world.
Yeah. And I do think that, you know, there's a lot of data that that about, know, people, you know, in relationships, divorce, like a lot of it ties back to, you know, loneliness, the other, the, [00:16:00] the individuals lonely, they don't feel valued, they feel disconnected. You know, I, I always use my personal life, you know, marriage is hard.
I've been married 34 years. To the same woman who I've known since she was eight, I was 12, right. We grew up on the same lake together, three kids, three grandkids. It's an amazing, it's been an amazing run, but it's not easy. Right. And, and I've always used the, you know, the, you think about the hospitality business and you think about we had when I was at strategic, we had great hotels every year, make, we'd go to make a wish in Miami. And we would, that was our one weekend and there were years I didn't want to go. And there were years she didn't want to go. And every year we made each other go and we always reconnected. Like it was like, no kids doing good, raising money for, you know, make a wish. How do you not feel good leaving that, that, you know, that environment.
And it happened to be the. probably the greatest single party event in the country every year. It's the most amazing event. Um, and we can, we reconnected. I mean, we had the four seasons put to meet [00:17:00] it and we like the same thing we haven't, let's go, let's do go away for a time and we get away and back to hospitality, back to service. Like, how do you help people reconnect? And I do believe, you know, think about why people are going to hotels. I mean, they're, they're either going on business, they're going to learn, they're going to see family, they're going for a funeral, a repast, they're, they have no family, they're alone. How many people go to, this sounds terrible, but how many people go to hotels and commit suicide? Because why? So, how do we Uh, in the hospitality space, right? Recognize and look and identify behaviors, nonverbal cues, looking at people's and just being kind that that simple recognition kindness. You think about it. I mean, this is what drives me crazy. And I used to, you know, over and I still gets me crazy. we, you go to Home Depot, you go to Lowe's, you go to go to anywhere, go to CVS. There is no service anywhere anymore. Um, [00:18:00] with exception to New Jersey, because they pump your own gas, but even in New Jersey, they're not friendly when they pump your gas, right? But you, there is like, you go to places and you go, you're expecting service, and it doesn't, and it doesn't happen. And then I come to, like, our hotels, and I see we're falling over each other to take care of guests. And, and, and yet we're not getting, we're not getting paid for it. Like we're, we're, I'm a capitalist. Like we should create an amazing environment. We should have amazing furniture. It should feel good. You should make you connect.
Like you don't even, it shouldn't, you don't even have to realize why you're connecting. Right. But it's the environment. It's the music, it's the sound, it's the smell, it's the sofa. It's the FF and E it's the, it feels good. It makes me want to, it just makes me want to fall in love. And then you, you, you're doing, you're doing all that.
Right. And. we don't, we're not getting paid. Uh, you know, and that gets me insulted because if you a thing like you should be, and I always say that I say that the leadership is you should be insulted. You're not getting paid for that. Like we're providing and going out of our way to [00:19:00] You don't get that anywhere anymore and yet you, you're, you're, you shouldn't accept someone not wanting to pay for that because I would pay, right? about it. I would pay thousands to reconnect with my wife if we're having a fight, right? Why? Because it's, the alternative? Like, you need the Yeah. Loneliness, right? So
Dan: Tom, I have a, I have a question as far as you, you just said something in the sense of coming from your, from, from strategic, where you have all these like super large format, full service, luxury hotels with incredibly large staffs. It's also publicly traded. Right. so it's a.
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: it? It was,
Dan: It was when you were there.
It was right. It was publicly traded. Now it's been taken private. Um, but that's a whole other different realm and day to day. Um, as you look at your journey and also taking all everything that you've said from making a difference, um, diversity, connecting, punching through loneliness, [00:20:00] um, to get to that personal connection.
What is the stark contrast that you see between it? A strategic hotels, which is awesome and staying at those properties. I've, I've stayed at many of them and had incredible experiences to where many, most of your properties now I believe are independent hotels. I mean, you still do have branded ones. Uh, they, they make up a, a nice chunk of the pie.
What do you, what's the draw financially where you're doing private fundraising with Rockbridge and you've even created a management company called make ready that caters to those independent hotels. What's the financially, Culturally, um, from your sense of purpose, what's the draw to independent hotels?
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: Like there, if you think about the culture piece, like we, we just did a, uh, they do make ready. Does it an event with all the senior leadership and all the hotels called guild? And it's, it's [00:21:00] heavily focused on culture and learning. And, the cultural piece and the, like the flexibility, like if you have an independent hotel, you could do. There are no rules or no restrictions. You can do whatever, whatever, whatever you like, right? When you think about it, you, when you work with a brand hotel, it doesn't matter what it is, a Marriott, a Four Seasons, a. Ritz Hilton Hyatt, they, they have their brand standards. They have all their rules, they have all their requirements.
Some brands have more than others, but there's a lot of, uh, requirements, um, because they're, it's the brand and they want, they wanna, they're focus on building the brand. Like there's a, there is a difference between ownership and, and the brands, right? You, the brands wanna grow their brands. They want to grow their market share. Right. You, you hear about the, the, the management companies, the brands now think about their earnings calls. Everyone talks about, it's all that net unit growth, right? As opposed to
Dan: Oh, I just heard that the other day. NUG. Someone was saying, Oh, it's all about NUG. It's all about NUG. I'm like, what are you talking about?
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: [00:22:00] So it's just, it's about net unit growth. And it's about getting more Bonvoy or Hilton honors members or Hyatt, you know, passport members. It's all about that growth in there. And those are the, you know, you heard the, say, those are the moats around their brands that protect them, that prevent their brands from becoming basically an OTA, right? In theory, it's. What's a brand? It's an O. T. A. Um, with with the rewards program. And, um, know that they don't like to.
They don't like to hear that. But that's that's kind of that's my view. And then so from my perspective is as owning a brand like strategic days, Diamond Rock days. It's like, how do I how is my I don't care about Hyatt hotels or Marriott hotels of Southern California. I care about my hotel in Southern California.
And how do I get the most exposure because you're really competing You're competing against the brand itself. You have 30 brands at Marriott, or 31 brands. You're, you're fighting against Marriott for transient rooms. You're fighting against Marriott for, for group, right? So you're, that, that's the, and then on top of that, you're fighting [00:23:00] against, you know, the other brands. you're an independent hotel, you, you, you, you're, you get the complete flexibility. The technology exists now to go direct customer target directly to the customer. So you can message the customer, target the customer, customize for the customer. And it's not tied to points. It's tied to experience. And so we like, I like the experience piece, you know, I tell it, I tell a silly story about a. And my previous life, had this junky little hotel in Key West and, and, uh, uh, there was a few of us, but Debbie, who does like commercial strategy, you know, is from the Keys and we were like, Hey, we have this hotel. We, we have no restrictions, like we can do whatever we want. Let's have fun with it. Right.
And so they said, well, like, like what it was. So we started playing around the name and. Shockingly, Havana, this little hotel called, was the Inn at Key West, Havana Cabana, the name was open, the website was available, I'm like, holy cow, how is that even possible? It's a fun gimmicky [00:24:00] name, said, let's have fun with it, no one's restricting us from doing anything, so we, we had, it was a great pool. Right. And it was an inn. And, and we, you know, cleaned up the rooms, made it fun, designed it with, you know, everything was in, we paid homage to Cuba and we, everything's Cuban. Like all of the, the art in the, in the building was women Cuban smoking cigars. You know, the, the, the, we had graffiti work done in the lobby where it's a young woman going up with a boy, her boyfriend,
Dan: Wait a minute. Hold on. So wait, you said earlier, you're a capitalist. You're talking about diversity and now you're talking about Cuba. You are like a puzzle, my friend.
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: very complex. Like a Shrek, a lot of layers, a lot
Dan: So,
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: like an
Dan: so, so keep going. You're talking about
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: we're having, we're having fun. We're doing, we're like, Hey, we can do whatever we want. The, the soap and conditioners are in Spanish. Right. And Marcos who God love him is from Argentina. He, he was like, Hey, let's have fun.
Let's, let's put funny things on the bottle that nobody [00:25:00] realizes. And we're playing Cuban music. The smells great. The pool experience. We, we did, we said we're going to have the best Cuban sandwich. We brought in a trailer and, uh, we put a Palapa, you know, the big, the, the Indian tent, uh, Palapa, you know, tent up and the, and it was, it was fun and we, and what we, what we did was let's, we, we took some B roll footage of cars driving around, uh, Havana and we put that up in the lobby.
And so when you came in, you saw it was the driver's view driving around Havana from a. 57 Chevy, and then we had two 57 Chevys made and put them out front. So that's, that's, that's a long story to tell you. Here's what, what happened. So we said, Hey, go, if you post on Instagram, right. We'll give you a pair of Havana cabana sunglasses.
And so people were posting and we're like, Hey, this is kind of fun. Now this is pre COVID. And then all of a sudden people were putting their stuff on the web and we're like, and as an independent hotel, we're monitoring it was like, Hey, what a great picture. Like, that's really amazing content. Like. people sitting on the car, right? [00:26:00] And can we use it? And they said, sure. And so we took it. We, we started taking user generated content, dropping on the website and then, and then tagging it, right? Giving them credit and then what, what would you do? Remember the Fabergé commercial when we were kids, you tell two friends and so on and so on.
Well, guess what happens? People people. Their pictures on the website, they tell their mom, their uncles, their friends, and people go on the website, and they save the website, and then they save the website, because, oh, I want to go, here's, here's my daughter, look at her, and mom's sharing it with all her friends, right? Well, all of a sudden, in 2020, which is shocking, Havana, this little hotel, Havana Cabana, Was the number one saved website in the in the world. Think
Dan: What?
So,
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: Yeah, it's crazy. And then we were walking through and you're walking around the pool and nobody's speaking English. Everybody, like everybody's speaking Spanish. And it was accidental. We were having fun. It was, we were paying homage to the keys. And all of a sudden, this out of nowhere, we like, holy cow, look what we did. And it was what, like I wasn't, we were just having fun and being [00:27:00] thoughtful and trying to be authentic and like make it an authentic experience.
Right. And at the end of the day, it resonated so strongly with people because it was authentic and that's what people want. And that's what you can do at an independent hotel. And that's what we try to do every day. When we look at our independent hotels, how do we make it feel locally authentic, and then give it a soul with the, with the people inside the building, right?
Providing great service. So that's, that you have, you have a lot more flexibility there. I guess
Dan: Okay. So I want to pull on that thread a little bit because I, I, one is people, um, two is let's just go with an investment and the investment side of things. So having you worked at strategic when it's publicly traded, correct?
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: Yes.
Dan: Okay. So now you and Mr. Merkel are at Rockbridge and obviously you're, you're raising money to acquire hotels, reposition hotels. Um, There are these financial assets that you're purchasing, right? There's a fundraising [00:28:00] component to it. If I were a, an investor, institutional or high net worth individual, and I wanted, and I invest in commercial real estate from multifamily to industrial to whatever, what's this, how do you sell them on, Hey, hotel, hospitality is a great place to invest in your portfolio.
Number one. And number two, we think independent hotels are. the better place to allocate your capital, um, within the hospitality space. Um, how do you have those conversations with people? Because, you know, sometimes people don't consider investing in hospitality. What, what's like, what's the pitch for a family office or someone institutional about why they should write a check and partner with you at Rockbridge?
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: Well, I, I don't have those conversations, right? So I'm, I'm the ops person. And, um, and so we have a whole team that does that, you know, Jim's obviously the, is the rainmaker. He's, he's the thought leader. [00:29:00] He's creative. He's dynamic. He's, he's, uh, He's a unique individual and he's got the biggest heart of anybody I've ever met, which is why I came here, right? I get to, we all get to choose, I, you know, every day and I, you know, I, I, I want to, uh, uh, my last job, I'm going to align with somebody that has the same values and thinks the same way I do and, and he cares. And so the, you think about that, it's not a hard story to tell, like why would an investor, one, it's inflation proof, right?
You, we're for sale every day. It's a daily lease, right?
Dan: So the, Oh, and just so everyone understands. So basically like you get to adjust your rates every day. You're not locked into a one year, five year, 15 year, 20 year lease. Mm
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: a hedge. So you, you, you, it has been a hedge against inflation. So that's one, two, it's real estate. It's location. It's still about location. Right? Location, location, location. As they say, I think you, if you buy great, buy great real estate, you know, and I said this for years where, where, where there's [00:30:00] demand, you don't need a brand.
So if you buy the right location, you have the right demand generators in that market. You don't need a brand. Why, why would, why would you pay a brand 10 or 12 or 15 percent of your, of your, uh, of your revenues, right? If you have, if there's demand in the marketplace, right? So where there's, where there's demand, you don't need a brand.
If you have great locations, great real estate, perform. You have all the tools. available to you to target the customer to do everything that the brands can do. You can do yourself directly, right? And so that's advantage. Um, and you're doing it for less. And then, and then the flexibility, you can do whatever you want.
You can invest whatever you want. You're not asking permission to, you know, You know, Hey, we can't have put that chair in in that room. You know? Hey, I wanna put a dentist chair in every room. Oh, you can't do that, Mario. Say you can't put a dentist chair in every room. Well, why can't I put a dentist chair in every room? And, uh, well, that's not against brand standard. You can't do that. Well, that's what we wanna do. That's our theme. I mean, I'm, it's a silly example,
Dan: Mm hmm. Mm.[00:31:00]
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: you, you have the flexibility on the investment. You have the flexibility on the ff and e, the o, s and E. You have the flexibility on the exit, right?
Your cap rate is gonna be. Is going to be lower than it would be encumbered with a brand, right? So the value of that real estate is going to be higher because it's, because it's unencumbered because it's flexible, there's flexibility to it. truthfully, long ago, required, right. They wanted a brand because it would, it would be a hedge.
It would be secure. It would, it would secure the real estate, but right now with all the tools available now, you, you know, the banks aren't requiring it to be, you know,
Dan: So are they not? Okay, so that's interesting, because I remember at one of the ILC events I went to, they had a, they had a couple bankers, and I think one was from Bank of America, one was maybe from BMO. I don't know. They were basically like hotel lenders, and they were saying, you know, we're at this point now where A flag is not necessary, right?
And that was like the crowd [00:32:00] was like, they gasped. They're like, what? How's that possible? Because they do see it as a way to minimize or de risk, right? If there is a brand associated. And are you seeing that transition as full or is there still some headwind from a, from a debt financing side of things with a, with a, with a bank?
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: I don't think so. I mean, if you're a, look, if, uh, Tom and Dan wanted to start their hotel company tomorrow and we bought one hotel and it was just you and I, and we had no, uh, track record, you know what I mean? There might, and no, you know, history there might be,
Dan: That would be fun. We should do that.
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: Yeah, we, yeah, yeah. We should try it. But that, but if, think about it, the lender would say, you guys have no credibility. Like, why would I wanna give you, I want to, I wanna de-risk my
Dan: What do you mean? I got a podcast and you're the, you're the president and COO of like a huge hotel company. That should check all the boxes, right?
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: I mean, it, it, it should, it should. But no one's, no one's calling us. Dan, our phones aren't ringing. Not even Mick Jagger behind you is calling
Dan: It's not even the podcast. Oh, God, it just doesn't, doesn't carry the [00:33:00] weight I thought it would.
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: it's
Dan: But, but you're fine, but you're finding that, um, the banks are, have fully made the transition to just say, okay, a flag not necessary.
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: don't know if everybody has, I don't know if the big banks, the national banks, the regional banks, it's, I think it's case by case and location by location. Right. It depends on the real estate. And then I could argue the other, right? You're one of 31 brands in a secondary market, and you're one of 31 Marriott brands in a secondary market, and it's a, it's a softer market, and you're competing against everybody, and you have a, you're one of the best locations in the market.
I do think that in that environment, you're going to, that brand is going to hurt your rate. You're going to get diluted because there's because of programs that they have. you know, they have their GPP programs and their global accounts and, and they're negotiating at a macro level. And you, basically either sign on or don't sign on for that program, and in many cases you're [00:34:00] kind of, you have to, right? And so you sign on for these programs, and then you lose, you lose your, your pricing control. Now they'll say that's not true, but it is. In fact, it's true. Like it does happen.
Dan: Okay.
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: and so there might be, there might be, uh, there might be a cap to the top of the rate and there might be no bottom on the rate.
And so depending on how the market's doing. So if it's a softer market, you could really, you know, dynamic pricing is unique in that it really works well on a market that's going up. Like I was doing, I started dynamic pricing years ago and rate efficiencies with four seasons because I'm like, Hey, where you're sitting in a room and they're like, Hey, wait, We're our, we're 200% of the market.
Like, look at us, look how great we are. And I'm like, well, but how do we know you shouldn't be of the market? Like why? Right. People, you're validating people. People are coming here because the, you know, I remember the old days, like Goldman Sachs had a, a $300 rate in dc, a 500 rate in New York, $190 [00:35:00] rate in like Austin and you know, $200 rate in Palo Alto.
I'm like, well this is crazy. Like why would you're diluting your brand like Goldman Sachs doesn't care. Goldman Sachs is showing up to your hotel, they want to be able to tell all the guys they're closing deals with that I'm staying at the Four Seasons, and then you're, you have a 300 rate gap difference between New York to Palo Alto, and you go, and I would say to myself, as a Four Seasons customer, I expect, right? I expect the same service delivery, It doesn't matter what Four Seasons I'm in, I expect the same service delivery from the front door all the way to my bedroom. And so, hurting, you're hurting your brand when you, when you have that wide of a deviation on your, on your corporate global rates, like you got to stop that. And it was like, Oh, it was like this moment where they were like, Oh, that's interesting. We, you know, you don't, if you look at it in the vacuum for each property, for each market, But at the end of the day, a Four Seasons is going to be a six or seven cap in every market that they're in, right? And [00:36:00] so, if that real estate's that value, then shouldn't they be paying the same, similar rate in some band that's acceptable?
There should be guardrails on it, right? And so you, those are the, and by the way, not a negative on Four Seasons. They're the best, I think they're one of the best brands on the planet.
Dan: I think there's something we can all aspire to and, and learn from. Yeah.
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: amazing. Their people are amazing. Their culture's amazing. They're, they're amazing. You know, and they have a retail customer.
Hey everybody. We've been doing this podcast for over three years now. And one of the themes that consistently comes up is sustainability. And I'm just really proud to announce that our sponsor Berman Falk hospitality group is the first within our hospitality industry to switch to sustainable and recyclable packaging, eliminating the use of styrofoam.
Please check out their impact page in the show notes for more info.
Dan: okay. So on the financial side, I get it. And I also understand and Jim and all of your investor relations teams are like handling [00:37:00] most of that. But you said that you're really, you're kind of like the conductor of the symphony of people. I just. Put all that together there. But someone who might want to invest in a hotel would say, you know, if you, if you, if they're, if they have certain, if they're allocating capital to a certain pie of multifamily industrial hospitality office, they may look at hospitality and say, God, it's just like so many people to like hire, retain, train.
Um, and I guess that's where you're. To quote Liam Neeson, your special set of skills comes in, right?
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: I, I've never been compared to Liam Neeson, especially,
Dan: see the movie Taken? It's one of my favorites.
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: it was, it was terrifying. I made my daughter watch it, yeah.
Dan: Yeah, I have a special set of skills. But instead of, instead of killing people, you are getting everyone to kind of work in unity. Um, you're building culture, you're creating retention, you're creating these special moments for people at scale, right? [00:38:00] If I talk to someone before COVID, Like a general manager, they would say, I would say, what keeps you up at night?
It's not like, are the rooms nice? Are the guest reports good? It was like, are there housekeepers going to come up? Are they gonna come to work? So let's go. Let's, um, let's go to that Key West property. Key West is super small. It's like at the end of the road. Literally, it's 90 miles from Cuba. Um, how do you recruit and retain people in these like hard to get to locations?
I know you said it's location, location, location. Um, but is there, is there a thread through all of your properties about like what kind of people you attract?
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: I, I, you know, I, that's an interesting question. Like, as the, as the real estate owner, right, we're not necessarily attracting and hiring people, right? We, we ask questions about it, we, obviously it's, it's critical to, uh, the performance of the hotel. the management company is really doing that. And then, [00:39:00] then it's, and then really is about creating a culture, you know, think about what, what you think about management companies, right?
So you've got the brand that manage it and you have all the other management companies that are out there called whatever third party, you know, there's owner operators and there's just pure third party operators. what, what is it that they. You know, when you think about the human capital side, what is it that they do?
Right? What is it that they, why would someone want to work for them? I mean, there's really three things that a management company needs to provide from my perspective as an owner. One, A culture, an environment that people want to work people want to feel proud about who they work for,
Dan: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: it's one of the core elements of being a human, right? Why do we go to church and root for sports teams and go to concerts and get inspired by music? It's what we want to, we want to belong. And participate in something that's bigger than us. And I think a [00:40:00] culture um, you know, which is what we, think we've done at make ready, creating that culture environment where people feel valued and belong that, that is, that's what four seasons does.
That's what, you know, luxury brands do really well. I think you have to, you know, you create that environment. So you want, you want to, we want an environment that people want to work for and be proud to, you want controls, right? I, we, we, you need controls, right? You got cash coming in, cash going out and you got, know, pricing and all the things that go on in a hotel on a daily basis, right?
You got just inventory and how do you control it and make sure protect it and right, and, and minimize your risk. And then, and then lastly is technology. Like what kind of technology platform did they bring to the table? Is it. Is it, uh, you know, from a revenue standpoint, from a control standpoint, from a connectivity standpoint, like from a labor control standpoint, from a food procurement standpoint, what type of technology are they [00:41:00] using? Is it outdated or is it current that, that it's, you know, it's relevant. It's not crazy expensive and it's effective and you can see all the data, right? You want to be able to get anything else. It's patterns, right? When you think about looking at a building, you're looking at an investment, you go, you're looking for patterns.
And when you, when you see patterns, then you, whatever it doesn't, it could be consumer behavior. It could be controls. It could be food, the cost of flour, right? All of those, these are patterns. And when you see the, you see a pattern. Right. That's when you go all opportunity. And so finding identifying patterns is where the opportunity exists.
And that's that's our job. And so technology, right, helps leverage or be able to see clearly patterns and then patterns helps you make better decisions. And then helps find opportunity and that's where you and that's the where the value add comes from.
Dan: Okay. So then for you in the ownership seat, if Make Ready is managing your hotels, okay. You [00:42:00] guys have your, you've built, you attract and retain for culture and you champion culture. You have, obviously it's, you're managing it. So you have your controls that you wanna see and you can see your patterns. Um, and then you have your technology suite that's either inherited with the hotels and you, you modify to work for you or you.
implement your own technology suite. Um, when you're looking at a new property that might not be managed by someone like make ready, um, how do you, how do you validate or vet for culture?
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: it's, it's hard to do, right? You,
Dan: But it's arguably the most important thing, right?
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: yeah, no, I think look at the end of the day, the, the, the GM in that building is always going to be critical, right? Like, what's, what's the, what's the priority and of that GM, how can you influence that as the owner? At the end of the day, I was like, I joke like, hey, we're. We're, we're 3M. What do we, what's our BHM do? What do we, we're like 3M. We don't make the things [00:43:00] you use, we make them better. And so how do we influence the better, how do we help to redirect and focus? You might have a very good guy. Who's been running a hotel and it's a great location. Good bones, right? Maybe hasn't had all the capital it needs because the prior owner is looking to, you know, exit. And so it's heavily focused on reducing costs as they're trying to exit, right? The building. You know, think about you want to, an owner that's selling, it's going to really be prudent, wants to maximize its NOI so that it's selling at the, at the top of its performance, right? And so you have a GM that's in that building. He's getting a lot of pressure from ownership to, you know, be, be frugal, be prudent. Don't waste money. Don't put, you know, don't reinvest because we're going to sell this asset that you come in and you buy that asset. Then you, you have to be thoughtful about it. wasn't this done? Or why wasn't that done? Or a lot of questions, right? It's like, [00:44:00] uh, Six Sigma, ask why seven times. Like, hey, why, what happened here? Why didn't this happen? Hey, why don't we have a, what's your turnover? Like, what are your, you know, what's your employee satisfaction scores? You're starting pay attention to those things. And then what you'll see is it may not be the leader. It may be the fact that he was just getting squeezed. By the prior owner on the way out. And he didn't believe that, or she didn't believe that. Um, but they, they had no choice. They had to, that was the job that the task at hand. And so you can't, you have, you have to, you have to judge all that stuff. You know that it's you can't put it. You got to judge that, you know, case by case, location by location and and it's all measurable. You can see it when you walk in the building, you know, when the culture is good. When you walk in a building, we we all see it. It's not rocket science, right? If If people look at you, do they make eye contact? Do Housekeepers make eye contact when you're walking down the hallway. But those little behaviors matter to people, right?
Dan: Yeah.
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: and eye contact. You may not have to [00:45:00] You, we, we have a GM that I, one of the best in the business and I've worked with him at strategic and a timer. I can now here at Rockbridge. And he, Danny asked him as what, just an amazing human being. And he's always been one to say, Hey, no matter how, what I'm doing in this building. If I walk by you, I'm going to make eye contact to you. I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to smile at you. And I'm going to, but what I expect is. I expect you to do that to all our guests. I don't care where you are, what you're doing. If you see a guest, you make eye contact and you say, hi, that, that little culture. Now, Danny said, if I walk by you and don't make eye contact and say, hi, I'll pay you a hundred dollars right now. In the course of a year, he paid three times 300 bucks. And they call him on it like, Hey, you, you walked by me, didn't say hi.
And he was like, Oh, I was with a, I might've been doing a sales tour and I didn't see you, but he pays on it and everybody knows it. Right.
Dan: Oh wow.
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: he
Dan: Danny, I'm coming at you. Where is he [00:46:00] now?
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: he's, he's at the Adolphus.
Dan: Okay. Here. That's in Texas, right? Texas or Denver? Texas, Dallas. Okay.
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: you, you create it. And that's just one of the little tricks, right? It's not a trick.
It's one of the things he does to recognize people. But if I'm going to recognize you, right? That then I expect you, and it's just about accountability. Think about it, right? It's kind of
Dan: to me, that means that if he's always looking and ready to be receiving, even if he's on a sales meeting or if he's walking around and having, and giving someone else's attention, he's also paying attention to everyone coming out and, and creating an opportunity for that human connection.
Right. So he's, he's focused, but also open to everything else. And I making that room and have and being able to have that impact on others is so much about what hospitality is. And then using him as an example. And that perhaps that I love that story. how has your perception of hospitality? Evolve from when you were at these larger format, big luxury properties [00:47:00] to, to where you are now on the more of the independent side.
Has it changed? Is there, is there a thread that ties it all together?
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: it is like back to the starting point of this conversation. It's no different than. having someone to your home. It's not, it's, we overthink things. It's not that complicated. People think about what people, what their needs are. People just want to be recognized, right? They want to be valued. They want to be recognized, right?
Dan: And that's what Danny's doing, even when he's walking with other people. Yeah,
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: I'm gonna do it for you and I expect you to do it for everybody else. It's pay it forward. Really. It's the best move, one of the best movies of all time. It's like, hey, pay it forward. I'm gonna do something for you and I expect you, I'm gonna act with kindness and I want you to act with kindness.
If you don't do that, then you're gonna stand out because most people want to Most people want to provide service. They want to take care of the customer. They want to be appreciated. there's no difference. [00:48:00] it doesn't matter if it's a restaurant, hotel, you know, a banquet facility, anything, any, any business inside a hotel, it's all the same.
It's, it's about recognition and, and genuinely appreciating the fact that people are there. People, and if you can't fake it, right, I'm sorry, you I always think that's the different, I won't, I'm not going to say like some hotel companies do service training and their service training is around. the process, right? And then some service companies do training around behavioral cues and reading nonverbal communication and body language and how to, you know, and that. And so what's more important. I mean, if I, I hate to say it, but the fork goes on the left, the spoon goes on the right. Yeah, that's important, but it's not devastating if the fork went on the right. But if, if I didn't recognize someone was having a bad day or they walked in the front door with a cold. And I didn't say, Hey, we have chicken soup. Can I send a cup up to your room? Those are the, [00:49:00] Hey, by the way, you're missing your, uh, collar stay. And I'm going to give you, here's mine. Have my collar stay like those little, um, acts of generosity and graciousness and whatever you want to call it, though, that that's what makes, that's what gives a building a soul. And you could, you could design it as pretty as you want. You can have all the bells and whistles in it. If it doesn't have a soul, the people give it a soul.
Dan: I will say, like, even though it's not a big deal, if your spoon is on the wrong side, that would piss my dad off. He was a really nice guy, but he would, they would, like, really upset him.
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: I have that reaction with the unfilled salt and pepper shakers,
Dan: Or, or if you're in Key West and it's just like a solid block of rock salt. Um, okay. You had a health scare recently. and in what we've been talking about a lot is kind of like, well, we were, we started off talking a lot about the why, and then we got into a lot of the what's about what we do, right?
Um, as you [00:50:00] went through that and kind of like reevaluated, took stock of your life and your family and, um, what's going on and what the future might be, did it change? Your idea of why you've chosen the path you're on
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: I don't think so.
Dan: did it reaffirm it in any way.
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: I think it, I think it's certainly, uh, reaffirmed Look, this is a hard business, right?
Dan: Mm
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: a very hard business. So, to be in the operating side is very difficult because it's hard work and you got to, it's just time. it does put things into perspective, right? Time. When you start thinking about things in the form of time, like when you get scared because of health issues, you go, or how much, it's Like, am I using in my, in my, in my utilizing my time most effectively and most efficiently. How many, you know, had someone say to me, uh, someone was and I were supposed to be going, um, we had a meeting and we had to get there.
We had to leave on Sunday [00:51:00] and Debbie's with a group of her friends. And the one person said to Debbie that Debbie's my age. And, um, one friend says, Hey, Debbie, how many more Sundays do you have left? why would you want to give one up? And then you, if you think about it in those terms, there's, it's a fine line between work and life, right?
And living your life. So I guess the point I would say is if you love what you do, you really don't, you're not going to work, right? If you love what you do. Then it comes down to just flexibility. Like I, why am I doing this? Why did I decide to do this podcast with you? Because I like you. I don't have to, I didn't, but we've met how many dozens of times and I go, I really, it's not because you're from Jersey either, but we, well, we, we, we like each other. I'm like, Hey, I'm, I'm, I'm happy to do anything for somebody. I like,
Dan: Mm
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: don't like you, eh, I don't want to be around you. I'm not sure. I, I, I, I will opt to not do it. I mean, you [00:52:00] know what I mean? that goes back to my Rockbridge days. Like, why am I here at Rockbridge? You know what? I like Jim. I think he's an amazing human being and he does more like all the stuff he does with cancer research and the, and Pelotonian and RTRX, the conference that we do. That, that stuff, that stuff is really what matters
Dan: hmm
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: you can do, you can do good and still do good business, right?
And that's the, that philosophy that, that Rockbridge has is something that's, you know what? I want to be around people that have the same core values. Now, listen, is everyday easy? Hell no. Can it be hard? It's still business. You still got to. got to worry and you still got to create a sense of urgency and hold people accountable. You should, you should, you should enjoy it more than not. So,
Dan: I I love that idea of how many Sundays do you have left? I don't know when it was 10 11 12 years ago. We bought this little cottage out [00:53:00] in Fire Island And I remember we started spending so much time out there over the summer. And then I remember saying to my wife, I was like, you know, we have 417 summer weekends left here.
And she's like, what are you talking about? I was just like, ah, I took my average lifespan. I said, you know, we can only use this in the summer. It's how many of these weekends? Like, and it was a real, um, clarifying. Realization. I think where we only have so much time. If you have a health scare, if you have some health issues, it's, it's accelerating that time that we have.
But just to think about things in a finite amount, um, it's a really cool, um, constraint that makes, that's a really good tool to help reevaluate what we're going to do and why we're going to do it and where we're going to spend our time. Um, any other thoughts on that?
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: I think you hit the nail on the head. Fire Island might be one of the most [00:54:00] beautiful places on the planet that most people don't know exists. It's remarkable. It's remarkable you go from Jersey to there. That's a that,
Dan: Well, no, we were living in New York City at the time,
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: okay,
Dan: actually my okay. So this is actually fun. Um, funny. My sister in law, she's an OBGYN in New York City. She's from Westfield, New Jersey. Um, and we all talk about like what we do, you know, okay, you know, I furnish hotels. Uh, my wife's a stylist. My brother's a, my brother in law is a CFO.
Um, you know, we all are doing all these things. And then, okay. But when Samantha, Dr. Samantha has something going on, she's like, I'm saving lives. She actually can say she's saving lives really physically. I can't wait till this airs because I'm going to send it to her. But, um,
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: We save lives every day, and every
Dan: thank you.
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: day.
Dan: Tell her that she's not the only one.
Talk to Samantha.
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: Listen, when you, listen, Samantha. When Dan picks out this magical sofa, and [00:55:00] that person is depressed and thinking about ending it all. And they, they go into that room, they see that sofa and they go, Oh my God, they lay on it and they have a great night's sleep and they fall in love with all their prior memories and they're laying there playing some wonderful music. And they go, I got to buy this sofa. I was going to end it today, but you know what? I'm going to call Dan and get a new sofa. And Dan just saved my, my life
Dan: Unfortunately, they'll have to buy like 200 of them, but that's okay. Um, but Samantha, actually, the reason why I brought her up is she grew up in Westfield and her dad bought a place out in Fire Island in the city. 70s maybe and they would go out every single weekend and that really was a haul but again He's still out there.
She's out there around the corner. We're out there. And again, it's like It's these really special times that we just have to remember and and stay attuned to Going back to the work side. So you're looking forward You've been here for how many years have you been on rock bridge now
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: [00:56:00] It's going on three.
Dan: three so What's exciting like what's exciting you most as you look about what's out in the forward as far as like?
especially from the perspective of hospitality investment because to me It seems like there it's like a slow time right now. We wanted to wait for interest rates We wanted to wait for an election now. We're waiting for tariffs now like people are hard to come by like We have all these headwinds, but what, what do you see as the greatest opportunity in hospitality investment and operations moving forward?
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: I think the consolidation will be one. I do think, uh, experiential, um, travel continues to, to be like important. And that, that, and that, that doesn't have to be like, you know, I'm going to go up to Alaska and salmon fish. It could be. It could be just, there could be a, uh, you know, a, an author that you are fond of that's doing a book signing and on a weekend [00:57:00] that you're, that you're going there, it could be, I think it's anything that allows people to learn and grow. I think people want to learn and grow. That's, would be the first thing I would say. And I think the next, I think my personal view. The next big thing is going to be food, is going to be a food quality. I think that, and not, not this bag stuff, the, you know, you go to Whole Foods and you, because you're pulling off the shelf at Whole Foods, you think it's healthy.
I'm talking like really being thoughtful about food, um, uh, processing and food safety, like no soy in the food.
Dan: No soy in the food, whole clean ingredients, and you can have a measles vaccine if you want it.
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: all
Dan: just joking.
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: yeah, I
Dan: Please get the measles, measles vaccine, everyone.
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: have to, you have to get the measles vaccine, but, but I do, I think that there is something to the, you know, you go, there's, it's well documented. You go, I go to Europe and I eat pasta and I don't feel bloated and terrible and I eat it [00:58:00] here and I
Dan: Yes.
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: Bloated and terrible. And so you, why? Well, that's because, I don't know, I would say that I do think that the, uh, RFK, the, the nerve of RFK and what he is doing, that, that, there's a trigger there, and a lot of people are really thoughtful and care about, think about it, how much money do we waste on stuff?
Like, I'm going to get a new belt, I'm going to get a new pair of shoes, we don't pay attention to the food we're putting in our bodies. Like, I think people are now becoming like, hey, I don't want cancer. I want to have a, I want to live a healthy life. You know, I read a great book called Outlive, and I, you, I want to, I want to live until I don't live anymore, and, but while I'm living, I want to be active, And
Dan: Is that Dr. Atiyah, or was that by him?
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: yeah,
Dan: My brother, who's married to Dr. Samantha Fader, he's also a doctor. He said, I have to read that. It's been on my list.
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: It's an amazing, amazing book, but it's when you start reading it, it's funny in that book, the, his roommate in college [00:59:00] started the, the, the, the gallery tests that the blood test that I took, I did this blood test. It was a random blood test with my doctor and I'm like, yeah, you know. And he's a, but Dr. Tony Ciosi is the great, great guy. And he, tease him all the time for like, Hey, what am I paying you for? Like, you know, I come for the same thing every year. I get an EKG blood test, right? Like, what are you doing for me? And every, I'm like, Hey, have you heard about this test? The Owlcat test? You've heard about that?
And now I don't know about this. He's a little, let's get it. And so we would get it. So this year, two years ago, whatever it was, I, um, I was going in and I was literally getting my blood, did my EKG annual physical, and I'm literally walking out the door and he's like, Oh, I got this new test. And I said, what is it?
He goes, Oh, it's, it's called gallery. And, uh, it's a new blood test and identify 52 different cancers in your body that are like, Oh, that's interesting. he goes, uh, how much is it? He goes, it's not covered by insurance. Nine 75. I don't, he, I don't make a dime on it. I'm like, that's expensive. And he looks at me, he goes, I did it.
Don't you want to know? [01:00:00] And I'm like, right, I'll do it.
Dan: Yeah. How many belts could you, you could probably buy 10 or 15 belts for that, right? And you probably would.
That's we're so stupid
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: exactly. So I go back in, I get my other arm, I get blood out of it. A week later, my blood test comes back and good, good, good, great. You know, same thing. Eat more and exercise. And I say, Hey, what about that other test? And he goes, Oh, it's not back yet. So a couple weeks later, the test comes back calls me early in the morning on a Monday. He says, Hey, the test came back and he came back positive. And I'm like, Oh, that's cool. And I say, Hey, when do you want to go play golf? He's like, what are you talking about? I go, okay. It's positive. He goes, positive is negative. goes, I go, what do you mean it's positive? And he says, um, he came back head and neck and I'm like, what? I went to the James and they accepted me quickly because of the relationship. And I got in and they, yup, there it is. The biopsy, they do a camera. Yup, there it is. And they said they found the cancer was they found 18 months, roughly 18 months sooner than it would have [01:01:00] otherwise been detected because obviously you, um, it would get detective because you get swollen glands and stuff.
But I had zero symptoms. So because because it was found so early, my treatment options changed and I didn't have to. I took the option of less radiation. Because I didn't want to ruin, lose my taste buds and lose all the stuff, you know, and I said, I'm going to go with less radiation. I'll do chemo with radiation and I ended up going to Sloan because it was a trial and, and, and the James didn't have the trial. But the point is, is that, that back to the book, like the, like people don't know about these things. Like I keep saying, I wrote my congressman, I said, everybody should have access to this test. Why shouldn't they? Why shouldn't insurance cover this? Like, think about it. I could afford it. And yet, and it found it 18 months, and it changed the way my treatment performed.
Think about it. But if it found breast cancer early, or ovarian cancer early, or, you know, uh, kidney cancer. Like, these are, like, these are big things. Technology's advancing in a way, I [01:02:00] think. And, and I think that goes, and a lot of his book goes back to food and exercise. And so much of the, the fuel we're putting in our body is not
Dan: that's the biggest drug. And just so you know, 18 months. I love this. I'm going to look at everything and the measurements of Sundays. That's that's 72 Sundays.
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: That's not good. It's not a lot of Sundays.
Dan: That's not a lot of Sundays. Okay, so with that,
if the Tom I'm speaking to now were to magically appear, um,
in Lovey's restaurant, right, where, like, there's a cabaret going on, and if you were to magically appear in front of the younger Tom with your first experience of hospitality, what advice Hmm.
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: I like, I always like telling stories. I think this is a great story. I actually just, I think I just told it to my, My youngest son last night and he had never heard it and I find that odd that he, he, like he said that I had never heard any of these stories I thought, man, I'm a terrible father because I thought I shared it with you, but maybe [01:03:00] my older ones had heard it. so I was in, uh, long ago I worked, um, for Hyatt and, and I, I did sales and I had this, this group called the Flax Trust and it was, um, father, uh, father, Myles Cavanaugh and sister Mary Turley. They're the most wonderful people on the planet. um, they did a fundraiser in L. A, New York and D. C. And, um, they, what they did was in the, in the eighties, right? They, with all the stuff going on in Ireland, they bought a flax mill and they converted it to a vocational school. And the premise was, we'll teach half Protestants, half Catholics. They'll go into business together and we'll slowly, little at a time, stop this hate. And, um, so they came over and they did fundraising to raise money. They, um, obviously were very well connected, in the Irish community, and I could go on and on and tell amazing stories about it. So, but this one [01:04:00] particular story, Sister Mary was about, you know, couldn't have been 4'11 nun.
And, uh, my aunt, my mother's sister, was a nun for a while, and so maybe that was the connection we had. Like, when we talked, she was my godmother, and she was a nun, so we talked, that was the connection. And I just, she, I adored her, and she was lovely to me. they, they were going in the lobby at the Hyatt to have a glass of wine and they invited me to join them.
So I went and they said, Oh, a friend of ours is coming. And Father Myles says to me, uh, you know, Tom, a friend of mine is going to come. He's going to come and he's going to visit. Uh, would you, would you mind sitting with us? I said, no problem. Father Myles, who is it? And he said, it's Art, it's Art Rooney. Now, Art Rooney, the, the, the owner of the Pittsburgh Steelers. Now, not the son, the father. I said, that was like, you know, but you might as well have said Jesus was arriving to this glass of wine because it was, I mean, the Pittsburgh Steelers, like, Art Rooney, like, oh, my God. So now I sit there and Mr.
Rooney shows up [01:05:00] and the gentleman and I don't say a word because I'm 20 something years old and I'm like, holy cow, I can't believe I'm sitting here with, uh. with Art Rooney. And so the conversation goes on and sister Mary's sitting there and, um, father for a while, he looks at me. He says, so Tom, tell us what you want to do when you're older. And I laugh and I go, you know, father, I think, um, I think I'd like to own a hotel one day, but it's expensive. It's a pretty big stretch. I don't know if I'd be able to afford it, but I think that might be something I would like to do. And he's like, he looks back at me and he says, Tom, you have a good idea, yeah. And people like you they trust you, they'll give you all the money you want. And, and I look at him and I giggle and I go, Hey father, with all due respect, you got that collar right there on your neck, right? And, uh, people are giving you all that money. I don't have a collar here. No one's giving me any money.
And he laughs and he looks at, he says, No, Tom, I'm telling you, tell him. And Art, when he looks at me, says, Tom, father's [01:06:00] right. He says, if you have a good idea. And people like you and they trust you. They don't even mind losing the money. They'll give it to you because they want to see you have an opportunity.
They want to see you succeed.
Dan: Um,
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: shook hands, went, went away and I thought, man, these guys are so, that's bullshit, right? And, you know what? Years later now, it, there's no truest statement ever said, right? It's true. If you have a good idea and people like you and, um, they trust you and you can articulate what that idea is. think people will invest and the money's there and I've seen it over and over again, but it's taking, I wish I, I wish today's Tom would have told yesterday's Tom that advice and Tom believed it. He didn't believe it at 20 something years old.
Dan: I've really been pulling on for the past, like three weeks. And I have a whole presentation that we're gonna have to do at a different time, but I want to walk you through it. Cause I'd love to brainstorm with you just doing more work with people, you know, like, and trust and how that pays so many dividends just from making [01:07:00] things more enjoyable day to day.
Um, but also like there's a measurable ROI and everything, not just having people. Invest alongside of you. But if you're always working or sometimes you don't have the benefit of choosing who we work with, like we can influence it, but like, I'm, I'm not in the position to say, no, I'm not working with that person, but like, I do think that we can turn up the volume.
On the no, like, and trust category of the people in our day to day lives. And no matter how many Sundays we have left, like, I think that's a great metric or a great filter or a great magnet is that how much, how many more people can we work with in our day to day that we know, like, and trust, you know, in our family, we know them, we trust them.
Sometimes we might not like them, but like in work, I do think we have an ability to choose. And turn up the volume on that. Um, so I think that's a great spot to end. And I do want to continue that conversation with you after this. But, um, this has [01:08:00] been wonderful. If people wanted to learn more about you, Tom, or connect with you or rock bridge or make ready, what's the best way for them to do that?
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: LinkedIn or they can go to the company website you know, that's probably the two best ways.
Dan: Um, I know that we've been trying to do this for a long time. I know you again, the health scare and like, I just appreciate your time. so much that we're here and that you were able to share this and put yourself out there. Um, it meant the world to me. Um, I know that you were saying that, you know, you want to do this to help me, but, um, not, but yeah, I've enjoyed it.
I've been looking forward to this conversation for so long. So I just want to give you a heartfelt thank you. And I appreciate you so much.
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: Back at you, Dan. Yeah, really. Thanks for the time. Hopefully, uh, I love I love the work that you're doing. I'd like to hear more about it. I do. I've often thought of, you know, I say, where's the authentic leaders that they've gone away? I often want to have a book I've outlined. I want to write a leadership book with great stories, funny stories about the hospital [01:09:00] around hospitality, because I do think there's that that's the best way to learn, right?
Storytelling is, is, uh,
Dan: Totally.
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: maybe it's maybe it's the Irish in me, you know? So it's, uh,
Dan: That's the Irish and the Jersey and the Jersey and both of us.
squadcaster-ij03_1_02-18-2025_094813: Yeah.
Dan: but seriously, I thank you so much. Uh, I appreciate you so much. I think all of our listeners, if this changed the way you think about hospitality, please pass it along. And, um, we look forward to catching you next time.
